Shadow 2 Compact - Drop Safe?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2023
- Is the absence of a firing pin block enough to consider a gun unsafe?
Just because a gun doesn't have a firing pin block does it mean it will fire upon impact? Is therefore every 1911 model 70 ever produced unsafe? - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
As someone who just got a new shadow 2 compact yesterday I couldn’t imagine doing this test to my own gun. Thanks for doing it for me
you're welcome.
Thank you for this video, I watched the Military Arms Channel review on the Shadow 2 Compact, which almost convinced me that this could be a liability if dropped. I've been saving $ to purchase this as my next CC platform, thank you for the scientific approach to this issue that has flooded the social media market!
This confirmed what I read on another experienced guys comment. He said the same thing, stock firing pin you'll be fine, but if you put an extended firing pin in then yes its possible.
Correct! I was actually able to ignite the primer in one of the takes, but unfortunately I wasn't recording.
@@czarmorerthat was with the extended firing pin. What company was the extended firing pin from? Different ones have different lengths
@@Rothbardy the one I used is from CGW
@czarmorer CGW is a no-go for me, thanks!!
@lorclan85 mind sharing why? just curious about it. I mean, this not something that holds true only to the CGW ext. firing pin... this would happen with any ext. firing pin, unless of course, they are not really extended 😃
i love your scientific approach to this
tnks buddy! It's what I could think of at the shop :)
@@czarmorer For the purity of the experiment, it was necessary to return the case to the chamber, and after pressing the trigger, hear the poo of the primer, and then show it to the camera.
@@czarmorerAnd even better, it was necessary to make a vertical guide, attach a shuttle through the Picatinny rail, and let it go down with a full magazine from shoulder height.
An absolutely outstanding review, thank you for sharing 👊💯🎯
Not enough of us out there doing science.
Thanks for thinking of scenarios to test.
You're welcome! I know it's not a lab with perfect conditions to simulate anything, and we have to take everything here with more than a grain of salt :) - but I really just wanted to test whether or not it would fire upon some impact on the hammer when fully decocked.
Outstanding ! Great video for a lot of us
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a Shadow 2 Compact on order - who knows when it‘ll get here - and I wanted to thank you for this video. Even though in my nation carry is basically nonexistent, and thus this will be a range only firearm for me, it is anyway great to know that this is not an issue (with the factory firing pin).
You're welcome!
What a great test! I commend you for doing this with ur new CZ pistol. My feelings on this subject are just what you discovered. For EDC stay far away from extended FP’s or any internal mods and you will be fine. Learn how to properly lower the hammer on a loaded chamber and you will be good to go. You were imparting some serious force on that pistol when you were striking it with your large hammer. Great video!
Mods wouldn’t change this at all. Only mod that would change the result was tested. If you carry the S2C, don’t use an extended firing pin
Great presentation and thanks for showing this. I won't be carrying a S2 compact for other reasons, and decocking fully is one of those. If I carried this gun, it would be even safer to carry it half cocked, due to the safer decocking. The reason I won't carry this gun is that on the sample I shot, the wall on the single action trigger was too indistinct to be safely manageable under stress, in my opinion. After this, though, I think the firing pin question is adequately answered. Thanks again.
Excellent job!
Thank you for this! My CZ Custom SDP has an extended firing pin ... but it has a firing pin block.
Just check to make sure the firing pin isn't protruding through the bridge face - if it is, this could be potentially unsafe regardless of the presence of a firing pin block.
Very informative video thank you very much for this video.
glad you liked it
Good video! Thank you for the info.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for doing this for science! :)
you're welcome!
Great info!
Thanks for the video!
You're welcome!
Thank you sir!
Great video! Subscribed!
Excellent demo. THANKS!!
Glad you liked it!
THANKS!!!!!!!
Good Video .... Keep it up !
thank you sir! I appreciate the feedback.
Looks safe. I prefer CZ's decocker., Thank you for the video.
The CZ models with a decocker also have a firing pin block, so this test wouldn't be applicable.
Educate video, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Even with the extended firing pin I wonder if you'd be fine on quarter cock? The decocker guns already do that, competition rules just make you lower it all the way. Thank you so much for the content you produce
If it's half cocked this scenario doesn't apply and you should be fine.
The extended pins cost 2 lives so far. Both heavily modified S2s. One in Canada, one state side. Both times falling directly on the hammer. Once the user itself was hit (the canuck Dentist) and once hit the RO behind someone in uspsa.
I heard twice no about SP01 tactical (should be the name you have overseas for the decocker model) firing while decocking. Is that possible and if so which parts have to fail, be disfunctional or badly tampered with for that to happen?
Thank you for the video
You're welcome!
*5:00** Everyone: In case anyone wonders... physics doesn't stop happening when a gun drops. It's very much in effect. It's a pretty simple equation to determine whether your gun could potentially fire from a drop [that you could potentially subject it to].*
FWIW, any gun without a firing pin block will ALWAYS fire at SOME inertia point.
Yes and no. Yes, there will be always an inertia able to beat the FP spring force. But no, it's not enough to drop the gun from your hands height, when using the OEM firing pin.
The physics here would be simple if you did not have to consider everything involved - For instance, the amount of inertia that you can produce is also finite given the gun would reach terminal velocity from which point it won't matter how much more height you add to the scenario...
Another thing I would be curious about is that depending on the barrel bushing being used, the first part getting in contact with the ground would be the bushing itself, pushing the slide back and the firing pin away from the primer at the same time the inertia carried by the FP will be pushing it forward. This could also be enough to prevent the gun from firing...
Anyway, I'm obviously not an expert in physics, but I think the theory here is simpler than the real scenario and all the variables to consider.
Good video thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Thats good to know that gun safe to carry in a DA with factory firing pin.
Extended firing pin like cajun good for competition not for carry.
Also gun can be carried cocked and locked like 1911.
They really need to release a decocker model with a block. I'll take a slightly less amazing trigger in exchange for that any day.
I think it's funny that Internet warriors think they know more than a multi million dollar company. Do you really think they would open themselves up to lawsuits with testing a firearm? Just like any cary firearm, don't modify it it will be fine!
Indeed.
Remember Sig had an issue with the 320. It was fixed but somehow the drop issue slipped through the cracks.
@@CourteousHB The Sig p320 has other issues, even worse than just being safe drop in my view... I've seen enough of them exploding on competitive shooters' hands at matches.
Since the primer is already toast I wish you chambered it back and fire it to see what it looks like popping out the muzzle or if it makes a hissing sound
Those primers will work just fine - I've actually already mounted a complete bullet with it and sent it through the barrel.
I carried and used 75 pre-B’s that didn’t have a firing pin block and they wouldn’t fire either if you banged the hammer
The ridht way to decock the da/ca gun for carry is to put it on half cock notch. And it would be safe in any case.
Fully decocked hummer only demanded in competition .
Locked and cocked with factory firing pin. Got it .
Hello. Can you recommend a good aerosol cleaner/lubricant spray for cleaning? Thanks in advance.
Ballistol
I don't actually use aerosol anything to clean my guns - except on a deep cleaning (to prep for cerakote or something), in which case I use brake cleaner since I have to use something with no lube whatsoever added to it.
So I just normally clean it solvent and for lubrification I actually use full synthetic motor oil.
Thanks again. Looking forward to the next video.
While I applaud you for actually doing some testing, I'm afraid that you have missed a very important failure mode. Because the CZ Compact does not have a firing block, the firing pin is only kept away from the primer by the firing pin retaining spring. The force exerted by that firing pin retaining spring is fixed.
If you drop the gun onto a hard surface on its MUZZLE, the firing pin retaining spring will have inertia and will want to keep going after the gun stops. If you drop the gun from a high enough height onto its muzzle, the inertia of rhe firing pin will overcome the force of the retaining spring and the gun will discharge. This is basic physics. Since the strength of the firing pin spring is fixed, that strength can be overcome by inertia simply by increasing the height of the drop. We don't know how high a drop would be required to cause a CZ Shadow 2 to discharge. Testing this would result in damaging your CZ.
Gunsmith Hilton Yam tested this on 1911s. He built a fixture that would hold the gun muzzle down. That fixture had a guide that ran along a vertical rod. It took less than a 5' drop for a Series 70 gun to discharge when dropped on its muzzle onto a concrete surface. Changing to a lightweight titanium firing pin and an extra power firing pin retaining spring increased the height required for a discharge.
Note that I'm not saying that the CZ Compact is unsafe. I'm saying that just like a Series 70 1911 isn't drop safe, the CZ Compact isn't drop safe either. I carried a Series 70 for years, so I'm comfortable with that.
But we need to be honest about the CZ Shadow 2 design. It will discharge if you drop it onto its muzzle from a sufficient height.
Great point and a very valid one too. Thank you! However I did not intent to prove either way, and the experiment was merely an attempt to simulate what would have happened if you drop the gun at a height somebody would be holding it when using the gun.
If we will talk physics, I'm not going to put the math behind it, but I'm confident the strikes I did on the hammer produced more kinetic energy transferred to that firing pin than the inertia it will carry over being dropped from a 5 of 6ft height hitting the ground either way (barrel or hammer) first.
The way a lot of companies with series 70 1911s or 2011s (like staccato for example) get around this is by using a titanium firing pin... It's not able to exert enough inertia from a drop on the muzzle due to the lower mass of a lightweight firing pin.
@@deanriley4700that's interesting. I would also wonder about the difference in the FP spring between the 1911 models and the CZ ones. I never actually measured it, so it can be just perception, but I do believe the stock FP spring on the CZ models is a stronger spring (it would require a lot more inertia perhaps).
@@czarmorer yes, you are correct - I just compared my Staccato P to my Shadow 2 compact with a punch and the S2C is at LEAST 2x as stiff as the staccato... If not closer to 3x. Couple that with the fact that the S2C is lighter, I believe it would be extremely difficult for the firing pin to overcome the spring due to intertia, if not impossible. The S2C also is designed to carry at "half cock" when in DA mode which will add additional hammer impact protection. I believe it's a safe design for carry. Even the Staccato has been tested and approved for over 1000 law enforcement agencies without a firing pin block.
Another interesting antidote is that ARs have a floating firing pin and every time a round is chambered, it bumps the primer. I've historically not loved that design, but you rarely hear of issues with ARs going off when chambering a round due to intertia from the firing pin... But if you remove a chambered round, you will see a very light pin strike on the primer.
I just Bought my S2C and love it.
What would you upgrade on it?
you can do pretty much all the upgrades available for the full size shadow2. So I would say is personal preference - Some people will upgrade everything possible, some others won't touch anything, after all it's a great gun out of the box too.
Do you know what would be a great video. A Shadow 2 Compact magazine compatability video. I'm trying to find cheap large capacity mags but am unsure that the mecgar ones are going to work. I can't be the only one.
Thank you for the suggestion! Not sure we need a video for that though - What's wrong with any CZ-75 (small frame) larger capacity magazine? I can assure you that magazines for the CZ-75, SP-01, Shadow1 and of course the full size Shadow2 would all work for the Compact (mecgar or original - by the way, I believe the original are also mecgar rebranded). Granted they will longer and some of the mag will protrude out of the magwell, but you said "large capacity" so I'm assuming this wouldn't be a problem.
@@czarmorer thank you for the answer and all the other videos you have made. Its been really helpful. Im new to CZs and not sure if mags index or overstop on the magazine base or if its like a glock and has a overstop in the upper frame. If your looking for clicks I'd bet a video titled S2C mag compatabillity would do ok. If your just doing the lords work and spreading knowledge I thank you again.
@@take1one My main motivation is indeed inform and humbly share my experience with the platform, however I do need this channel to keep growing in order to reach more and more people. So I appreciate the suggestion!
Mecgar mags are fine in my S2.
Sorry I’m new to the cz platform. What about with the hammer cocked and safety engaged. Shouldn’t we test that the hammer doesn’t completely fall?
I believe that if we do such a test with the hammer cocked and safety engaged, we will likely damage either/both sear and/or hammer before causing the hammer to fall. It will only fall on that scenario if something breaks, and we're talking about steel parts, so it would be a heck of strike.
Still would be good to know if this thing is drop safe with the hammer back. My guess is it’s not.
Thank you! This is awesome. Do you have a shop or offer services?
I do - you can find me in Instagram (@cz_armorer)
Is there a slight firing pin indent on the primer around 4:50? Maybe just an illusion.
Do you think this experiment similarly applies to the SP01 Shadow?
It does only if you also used an extended FP and reduced power FP spring on it. The SP01 Shadow doesn't have a firing block either, so the same principle would apply to it too.
I think there is a much greater risk of the gun landing on the beaver tail, inertia causing the hammer to move, but not far enough to catch the half cock notch, then rebound into the firing pin with enough force to set the round off.
I agree the likelihood of hitting the beaver tail first is much higher, but if the gun lands on the beaver tail the inertia will move the hammer back, not forward. Same for the firing pin, which won't move at all since it will be 100% backed up by the FP plate... This experiment was done this way because there were occurrences in the past of Shadow2 landing hammer first and firing.
@@czarmorer moving the hammer back adds energy to it that has to go somewhere after the fall, which would mean returning forward and striking the firing pin. Hitting a hammer that is already fully at rest will not cause it to move the way it actually could during an impact after a fall.
@@chevrofreak Yes, I understand that - But in your scenario the hammer will only hit the firing ping if the sear and/or hammer hooks break. Otherwise it will just get back the either the fully cocked or half-cock position. It will not hit the firing pin.
And yes, hitting the hammer like I did simulates pretty much what would have happened if the gun falls hitting the hammer first - I was also able to reproduce the same exact results we heard about on the stories of the incidents.
Besides, I'm not the only who exactly this same test, others did the same, achieving the same results - So it's case closed to me :).
@@czarmorer that is assuming the inertia will transfer enough energy to the hammer to cause it to catch the half-cock or full-cock notch, which it probably won't. It would be pretty simple to test with the stock firing pin and an extended one using another primer only cartridge and pulling the hammer back to *just* before the half cock notch catches it and then releasing it.
@@chevrofreak it won't hit the firing hard enough if it doesn't extend even to be caught on the half cock notch. I've tested that. However, again, using an extended firing pin and reduced power FP spring, aligned with softer primers, this all can surely increase the risk here. I can attest that with the OEM FP and spring, that's a not possibility.
Help me understand…. Just got the S2C - can I carry this firearm hammer down with the safety off? I had the CZ 75 D PCR w/decocker and always carried it hammer down decocked. Is the D PCR drop safe if you did this same hammering/vice test? What internally is different between these 2 firearms? Again asking if I carry the S2C safety off and hammer down? Not a safety lever fan but will adapt if necessary. S2C shoots very well - just had it to the range. And this is a great test you have done!!! Would like to see as some have mentioned the test again and using the gunsmith hammer only to check the primer with the longer firing pin installed. Although I’m not changing out the FP on this gun…. Just curious. Thank You!!!
Thank you for your question! The difference between the 2 is exactly the firing pin block safety. The CZ 75 D PCR does have a FP block, while the Shadow line doesn't. The FP block would prevent the firing pin to ever touch the primer unless the trigger is pulled.
@@czarmorer So I can carry the S2C hammer down - safety off? The safety lever really only pertains if the condition of the firearm is cocked and locked like a 1911? Is there a 2 stage partial hammerback - 1/2 cocked - that would be more safe as a carry method with the safety off? I’m not concerned with dropping the firearm…. Just basic carry procedures. Thanks again! Very good info for sure. 💯
@gmro-ronosinski5102 in its stock configuration I would consider safe to carry however you feel better with. I will do it half cocked safety on, but I would feel good about carrying it hammer down too.
@@czarmorerCZ recommends against the gun having the safety on at half cock. Something about damage to the sear. What are your thoughts? If true, wouldn’t they have figured out a why to prevent the safety from going on at half-cock.
@@Rothbardy Why wouldn't you listen to the manufacturer's recommendations? They do al the testings for you...
Any suggestion as to having the hammer fully down vs quarter cocked?
for carrying I like the quarter cooked and safety on. Personal preferences though.
that's a question I wouldn't want to guess on.
You don't need to :) If you watched the video you know the answer.
Was the hammer fully de-cocked or was it in the 1/4 cocked position for the tests? Curious if it was the inertia of the firing pin or the hammer on the firing pin that induced the contact with the primer.
hammer fully decocked for a couple reasons: 1 - I would likely break my hammer and/or sear if it was not, and 2 - if the hammer wasn't fully decocked it would not be touching the firing pin and then the inertia would actually be in the opposite direction moving the firing pin away from the primer instead.
@@czarmorerI’m curious how striking a fully de-cocked hammer is different than using the trigger to drop the hammer. It seems like just a different source of energy. If that’s the case, it’s only a question of degrees; did you hit both firing pins with the exact same force (I know I’m not that well calibrated)? Maybe a drop from one height might set off one configuration SOONER than the other but, under these test conditions, at some height any firing pin capable of igniting the primer WILL cause the gun to fire. So maybe the better test would be to use a calibrated instrument to establish the difference in energy required to ignite a primer in a gun equipped with the extended firing pin vs. stock and compare that to the energy associated with drops onto known substrates from different heights.
@@nbonner75 very different when you consider that with the hammer cocked the back of the FP protrudes out of the FP plate by 1 to 1.5mm, and that's what needs to happen in order for the hammer to actually strike the FP. With the hammer fully decocked the FP is fully depressed into the FP plate by the hammer itself at rest. So when I hit it, the FP plate prevents the hammer to hit the FP, but because it is touching the FP it does transfer some of the impact energy to the FP. The question was whether or not this is enough to move the FP forward and hit the primer. It will not do it with the original FP, but as you can see, it will with an extended FP.
@czarmorer
I hate half cock and decock (sets it to half cock) proponents because if that gun ever drops onnthe floor you now will need a expensive new sear cage
@@jason200912 do you drop your gun on the floor often? In my more than two decades as a professional trigger puller I dropped a gun exactly one time… it was on purpose for a demonstration. Do you also hate proponents of air bags in cars? When you crash and they go off, they make a mess and are expensive to replace. Do you know why the half cock notch was initially introduced on pistols (what problem it was intended to solve)?
i dont understnad: if hitting the hammer hard wont evrn dent the primer, then how is the gun fired when pulling the trigger?
Thank you for asking this question. It gives me the opportunity to clarify this as other might be wondering the same.
When the hammer is resting down on the FP plate, it is also depressing the end of the FP that protrudes out of the plate so it's flush. Although there is still contact between the hammer and the FP the plate itself, with a much bigger contact area, is what will take most of the energy from the impact. The energy left will be able to move the FP slightly, but the FP spring will push it back with enough force to prevent it to touch the primer.
When the hammer is cocked, and drops, it hits the end of the FP first, hence transferring all the impact energy first to the FP, and that will be enough to beat the FP spring and dislocate the FP forward to hit the primer with enough energy.
Makes sense?
@@czarmorerJesus, I don't know why I couldn't see it in the first place. Your explanation makes perfect sense :) Thanks!
@@czarmorer That is the reason even guys like MAC should ask CZ why they did not use a firing pin block. MAC should have asked CZ it tells me he did NOT go to the source for an explanation on a complex potential design issue. BAD MAC
@@paulheinz2145 pardon my ignorance, but what's MAC (or who is MAC)?
Can you talk about what would happen if the hammer was cocked and locked? That’s how I’d carry this with safety on
I have not tested that, but my guess is that nothing would have happened, unless one strikes it hard enough to break hammer hook, in which case the hammer will get caught by the sear again on the pre-cocking hooks. Either way the gun would not fire.
Thanks much! I carry mine AIWB LOL
me too!
@@czarmorerhow do you carry yours? Hammer down, half cock or cocked and locked?
I would have liked to see the trigger pulled on that primer at the end.
Federal primers are too expensive and precious to waste like that - LOL
nice test :) CZ would never release the gun if in doubt about it being drop safe...
You never know man. Sig didn't know about their p320 ND until people reported the issue and sig realized they failed to test that
Hmmm…what about p10c before 2019?
I agree - And I'm sure they had no doubt when released. And I do believe, and the test actually somehow indicates this, that they are safe in their stock form. Once you mess with it though, it's no longer CZ's liability...
I’ve never owned a hammer fired gun. But I shot a Shadow 2 and was in love so I ordered a S2C and it will be here in 2 days. My question is how do you get the double action pull on the first round if you load a magazine and rack a round? Is it impossible to have a loaded chamber and be in double action mode?
@@jasonriggs3655 you decock the gun manually using two hands
Do redo it with just the gunsmith hammer strike with the extended firing pin. Check it, then hit it with the wood block and sledgehammer. Then check that. I wanna see if the gunsmith hammer strike did hit the primer or was it the sledge hammer with the extended firing pin.
yeah that really makes a difference doesn't it.....what if it drops on the edge of a board as it's being hit with a sledgehammer versus dropping onto a gunsmith hammer strike....that will definitely tell you how to randomly drop your gun in an accidental safe way when around wooden boards and gunsmith hammers..... the guy that died in Phoenix dropped his Shadow 2 at a match, it simply fell and hit the ground and shot him in the stomach, and yes....he had an extended firing pin. That's all you need to know.
I did this test before (off camera) - I actually able to ignite the primer (with the extended firing pin) with a much lighter strike just using the gunsmith hammer.
All we need to know, is that extended firing pin is a big no thanks. @locophoto6881
@@Osprey1994 And all you need to know is how to communicate on an adult level with an adult level attitude of being grateful for a complete stranger that owes you nothing taking the time to help you avoid killing yourself or someone else. If you're going to be a jackass at least wear a hat that says "jackass below" so we all know to not waste time helping the guy who refuses to grow up when millions of everyone else was able to do so.
I would say carrying with the hammer all the way decocked could gave this problem, but if carried with the hammer in halfcock position, the issue is gone, since there is no contact between the hammer and firing pin at all. You could beat on it all day and the firing pin would never be touched
Agree!
If c z wanted a longer firing pin in it , they would have put one in it
Right - well, I'm sure no manufacturer wants anybody to do anything on their guns, as they are designed to be the best possible balance between performance, safety and reliability out of the box.
But when it comes to competition, the balance changes towards performance, and people will tinker with their guns all the time to squeeze more performance out of it - Even if that makes them not as safe, and not as reliable as they are originally out of the box.
I think there need to some caveats to this:
If you get a duty carry p01 from CGW, you’re getting a gun with a firing pin safety, which the S2 compact does not have.
Second, you’re getting a gun that is supposed to be carried half cocked, which prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin in the first place, even if the gun is dropped.
Third, you did the test in the fully decocked position on a SAO pistol with a round in the chamber , which is not how it’s supposed to be carried. Ever.
Normally, anyone carrying the S2 compact would carry it with no round in the chamber or a round in there but cocked and locked, 1911 style with the manual safety engaged.
I trust the guys at CGW, in that they know what’s considered safe for duty carry while maintaining reliability and optimizing performance.
I think you got a few things wrong here: first, this is not a SAO gun. Second, the whole point about this is with the gun in hammer down position, any other setup this test wouldn't make any sense, and third there is no such a thing as this is "supposed to be carried in half cock position". You can totally carry it hammer down, I just wouldn't do it with a extended firing pin. And fourth and last, I did not mention anything about CGW or whether or not I trust them, I'm sure they know their stuff, however as it was proved, an extended firing pin, from CGW or otherwise, does make the hammer down position unsafe from a dropping perspective.
You should test if regular firing would ignite the primer of your empty cartridge.
One can argue that the lack of the bullet allows for some slack in the chamber. Therefore your testing conditions would be more forgiving than regular loading.
It does - I did test that before proceeding with the test. I should have popped that primer just pulling the trigger right after I tried the strikes on the hammer though, it would've addressed your question even before you ask if I had done so.
Very good point though!
thanks.
I steel can't believe you hit your gun 😥😥
Everything in the name of science - LOL.
Jokes apart, believe me when I say there no damage you can cause to hardened steel with a 2x4....
I did this a while back. They don't necessarily go off every time with the extended pin decocked and hit with a hammer. I don't use those pins in any of my guns, full size shadow 2's or my S2C.
th-cam.com/video/Euo1SFjNuJo/w-d-xo.html
Right! I was able to actually ignite it before I was recording the test for real :(. So I missed showing that in the video, and it's like you said, it's rather intermittent - I did notice though that the primer was marked every single time I tested with the extended FP.
Don’t drop your gun, and don’t modify it. You’ll be fine.
More like dont have someone whack the hammer with a hammer
Agree - never drop it. The modifications will be there for 99% of the ones used in competition though.
so I have to drop it repeatedly in the same place to even mark the shell? hmmm....sounds concerning. I mean, when I drop a hand gun, I always make a point to drop it 4-5 times to create impact in the exact same place.
not really, in my first test it fired on the first strike.
@@czarmorer oops! There goes my sarcasm…. 🥺 (thank you, though!)
What is the idea of having an extended firing pin?
‘Guaranteed’ ignition with hard primers.
@@SectionChief thanks 👍🏻
You don't need one at all as long as you keep your main spring stock. But as part of tuning/upgrading, particularly for competition purposes, it's very common to replace the main spring with reduced power ones in order to achieve a lighter DA trigger pull. The tradeoff with that is that the hammer is no longer hitting the firing pin with the same amount of energy and therefore you can start facing some light strikes issues. Hence the usage of an extended firing pin and reduced power FP spring to mitigate that.
@@czarmorer makes sense, thanks. It is clearly intended for competition, and thankfully, for carry, you've shown the stock condition to be "safe."
Allows you to run extra weak hammer springs so you can turn your gun into a competition hair trigger
When you decocked the gun, did you set the hammer all the way home or put it in the ‘quarter’ cock? I’d carry quarter cocked with safety on.
All the way. Yes, I would carry it just like you mentioned too.
Not how inertial pins work, but ok
right, it wasn't my intent to test the "inertial pins" though. The stories around Shadow2s not being drop safe are related to a hammer down scenario with the impact at the hammer, like I tested on the video. They are not related to a barrel down impact and the inertia causing the firing pin to move forward enough.
There is actually at least one video of somebody testing exactly that on a shadow2 and they couldn't cause the gun to fire not matter how high they dropped the gun from.
But the keyboard pros on Reddit says it’s not drop safe.
haha, well, if it's in internet it must be true, right?
No gun is drop safe if dropped from a high enough elevation and you're standing directly under it.
Scientific, I’d say common sense Which it’s not that common nowadays
Yeah, that's why in portuguese we say "good sense" instead - because it isn't really necessarily "common" :)
Ite not drop safe ..anyone who says it is a bazo.. But safe to carry that's a personal choice plenty of ppl carried 1911 this way for 75 years
Just buy the sp01 that has the safety if you think its a issue .
You've missed the point that this is not testing the same situation you would face with a 1911. I don't think anybody carries a 1911 hammer down :)
But for all that matters the Shadow2 Compact is drop safe so long you don't make modifications to it.
That is not the point of a drop test. It is when the gun is dropped and hits the muzzle to the ground. Does the firing pin have enough inertia to ignite the primer. That is what the firing pin block is supposed to prevent.
Yes, but the setup on this test is simple and easy enough to do and it will reproduce the same - What I was trying to check here is whether or not the firing pin will move enough upon impact to hit the primer. Whether the energy is coming from striking the hammer or the barrel makes no difference from what I was trying to test.
It won't change my conclusion that a shadow2 falling down from my hands will only fire upon impact if I had swapped the FP. It will not fire with the OEM FP.
Now of course you can drop your gun from the roof top of a 3 story building, barrel down, and see what happens - this was not what I was trying to test though.
@@czarmorer Actually, I think hitting the hammer or the back of the gun will tend to push the gun forward (if it wasn’t in the vice) but the FP inertia will make it stay behind temporarily, depending on weight and spring. That direction would be away from the primer. Rebound may be a consideration. On the other hand, hitting the muzzle end places force back towards the hammer and inertia of the FP will have it want to stay put. So that means the FP will be heading towards the primer. It’s kind of like when people try to wrack a slide one handed by quickly throwing their hand forward. The inertia of the slide wants to stay put while the gun goes forward by force. I think by putting it in a vice you’re testing the sear strength more than anything. Check my thought process here and tell me if I’m wrong.
@bluesoverlord what you're supposing is only true if the hammer wasn't resting on the FP plate where FP is also flush with, therefore also touching the hammer. With the gun held in place like it was and the hammer actually touching the end of the FP enough of the strike energy will transfer to the FP. So much so that when using the extended FP it actually hit the primer.
Conversely, there are videos mentioned here on the comments of people doing similar test and igniting the primer by hitting the hammer and others of people dropping the gun barrel down in which nothing hepoened...
@@czarmorer I still think a vice does not reproduce the real world scenario you want to test for….the gun falling to the ground.
@@bluesoverlord that's ok :)
Are the couch warriors wrong? BLASPHEMY
I hate seeing you abusing a great gun like that it pains my heart!!
Anything for you guys - In all seriousness, the stress on the gun with those strikes is actually not as dramatic as it looks/sounds - These guns go through, and are designed to sustain, a lot more stress than a few strikes with a wood or polymer surface can put them through.
Another thing to consider is that I've worked with a large number of CZ guns, and I have literally tens of spare hammers, sears, springs everything else that could break or suffer any damage during this test.
World’s smallest safety so it’s not meant for SA carry. No de cocker but DA/SA?
What exactly was the target audience? This appears to be simply for a niche competition category and not EDC. If it was for EDC this pistol would actually make sense. It’s a shame because it’s almost amazing. They couldn’t figure out what they were making 😆
Target audience I think is those who won’t train. Thumbing the hammer to enter DA thousands of times over the course of training is simply a terrible option.
I can't speak for CZ and what was their target audience - I can say though that for the time I had one I used as my EDC and I did not experiment the issues you're bringing up - on the contrary, it felt pretty good to me - The safety works well for me, and I couldn't care less about the lack of a decoker, however I'm very familiar with the platform and shot CZs in competition all the time, so maybe it felt good to me because of that - I can't say how it would feel for somebody not as familiar - And then maybe CZ is appealing to their own crowd with it... who knows? :)
You ain't suppose to drop your gun any more than running your car into a wall.
You must have found that gun on the side of the road. I cringe looking at such equipment abuse.
Cz has been making guns for 200 years.if the cz engineers tested it safe, it is safe unless someone does something stupid with it. After market products are only good for the guy who takes your money.
all done under a fully controlled environment 😄. Besides, somebody has to run the car into a wall to find out its safety limits, no? Isn't it how it's done anyway?
@@czarmorerexactly. What a ridiculous comment. Does this guy not think that Elon Musk himself crash tests his Teslas?
I’m in the insurance industry and while people are not supposed too they hit walls, buildings, and fences, and other cars ALL the time
maybe someone knows? Shadow 2 upgrade kit fits Shadow 2 Compact especially interested in the spring for a lighter bolt
the recoil spring in a full size shadow2 will not fit the compact. The compact uses one of those captive springs systems while the full size uses the traditional 2 parts with a guiding rod and spring separable.
Can u please do the sig xten love your videos great content ❤
And maybe the new Taurus th10 as well it's more budget friendly
Don't they both have a firing pin block? They would fire under impact if so, not need to test - unless their FP block safety is defective which I highly doubt would be the case.