Recruiter Lies | Working with Them As A Jr. Developer
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I remember when this dude had like 20k subs with insanely long hair & he was awkward on camera, to this beast today delivering content with oompf. Well done Josh. 100k gang soon
I appreciate you.
Same! He's inspired me to change
Dreaded dev
dude he's been getting tons of recommendations from what I've seen, the youtube algo is working for him!!
lol that long hair was looking crazy.
Job hunting feels like Tinder now imirite ? You get 2 or 3 interviews and get ghosted
I got paid $400 for an interview once. best date ever!
Isn't that what you should expect from Tinder?
@@ahmataevo junior developer wanted -requirements -
must have 5 years experience
must be able to lead a team and mentor other juniors and interns
must be able to understand every single part of the development process
@@ahmataevo greek gods have tiny dicks...
At least I now passed one sub requirement!
All this stress and wasted time when sometimes worse is better
What I love of this channel is that you avoid that “fake optimism “ or “fake fancy SWE lifestyle”. Nowadays it’s a trend on TH-cam to sell to young graduates the dream of a perfect career in the tech industry. Most of those youtubers are simply trying to make a living with their channel and side business to leave that “fancy tech job” that they hate... it’s a kind of Ponzi scheme, in order to leave their job they need you to believe that they’re super cool, hence you follow them and bring them money
I agree with you. TH-cam is not a place where people care about saying the truth, they only want views. I hate most of youtubers.
Appreciate you
This is gold and needs to be talked about more!!
@@JoshuaFluke1 what you comments in this video Joshua Fluke happens world wide!.
@@flyguille correct
Look at the average recruiter profile on linked-in. I often see that she was a barista, did a short stint at a gym (personal trainer?) and then suddenly... (BAM!) a technical recruiter! WTF!
Yeah..
So true
Objectively speaking, you only need good people skills and a bit of tenacity to be a recruiter. What your prior work was isn't too relevant. It's a sales job, after all.
@@addanametocontinue Yes, if they have those traits. I've not run into one yet. In my experience they are obviously no good at sales.
@Will Hoyt I think you might be right! HA!
I recently had a horrible experience with a CyberCoder recruiter. She shunned me for applying to a "Full-Stack" role that had no backend requirements in the job description. She was about to dismiss me when I said I was a Front-End Engineer and I asked her what the back-end requirements were and she had no idea but made me sound like an idiot for applying. She was rude. These people... they only care about checking some boxes or something.
They just want their cash fam
Exactly! Especially those recruiters with indian accent. Last time one of them was begging me to apply for a job ad. I think these recruiters performance depends on how many ppl answer to their ads and how many give out their info...
it's the bonus indeed. They treat IT guys like fresh meat on a market
Recruiters aren't techs. I can understand her response. They look for key words and thats about it.
dude i made the mistake of giving my info to revature and cybercoders, they literally spam you with emails non stop and just add your data into their database
I’m a recruitment consultant and I can tell it’s job that you do when you have no idea what you want to do with your life! Trust me, I’m trying to get out quick 😂
Man the worst recruiter I dealt with tried to lie and guilt trip me into taking the job. The guy told me that he had invested his own money in getting me through the process and that by me flaking on the job he was going to have trouble feeding his daughter. Good. Lmao
Lmaoooo
One thing I learned is always be applying for roles even if you're in the final stage of a hiring process. I've had verbal offers pulled right from under me!
Exactly
Same here
Facts
Never, ever stop the application/interviewing process, or turn in your notice, when all you have is a verbal offer and nothing in writing. It could be a ploy by the company to do a bait and switch on the salary/benefits, or worse, redact the verbal offer entirely if they find someone they like better, or whose willing to take less salary. Don't get played, play the game.
Yep........fire off the rockets until you're on one! Too much bait and switch nonsense to be content with anything verbal.
Most Recruiters: promise the world, deliver absolutely nothing.
I personally can't stand recruiters. Here in the UK they often work on commission and their company will often pay them a certain percentage of your base salary if they manage to successfully secure you in a role for a year. This leads to them basically saying or doing anything to get you in a position even if that position isn't a good match for you. When you're trying to get your foot in the door as a junior they can be helpful, but as soon as you have a few years experience I would steer clear and instead apply to companies directly.
Yeah they are a joke. I was looking for a management consulting job and this recruiter pulled me in and pitched a job that described exactly a job I was looking for and it’s at Amazon and lots of good sounding Mumbo jumbo. It was later down the line DURING the first interview that I found out it was an amazon warehouse manager work, but the damn recruiter hid it so well or maybe I was too naive... ridiculous
You forget to mention the hundreds of suitable jobs for which they turn you down.
They also like sending people to interviews for jobs they have no chance of getting, they use you as a spy to get inside info on the interview process so that they can coach a more suitable candidate.
There also seems to be a new trend of sending possible candidates through 1-week courses without getting employed for example I have had recruiter request me to attend a 4 day course and an interview at the end I mentioned that I already had the qualifications but they didn't reply so they must get some kind of compensation for putting candidates through small courses
Lol I've learned python, HTML5, CSS3 a little javascript and the syntax of C++ lmfao bought a book on machine learning with python learned the basics and applied to a JR machine learning developer/data scientist. Somehow magically landed an interview passed the phone screen with the recruiter and got an in person with the tech lead. Bro...that was the most awkward and eye opening experience ever I didnt know shit I failed miserably lmaooooo. I wanted to just teleport out of existence lol.
LMAO Elaborate
The fuck did he ask you?
This hit so close to home I actually feel it again. ( But In reality you didn't fail as bad as you think.)
Lol I can't remember all of them but after some in depth python questions that I got somewhat right it got serious. "You have a data set with missing values which spread along 1 standard deviation from the median what percentage of data would remain unaffected and why?" , "Using machine learning how would you write a recommendation system for our company and what algorithms do you think would be best?", "How do you check for a valid binary search tree?", "Write a function to return the best split for a decision tree regressor using the L2 loss." Lmao there were more but those are the ones I remember the most because I had to write psuedo code 😫.
@Rafael Ferreira I believe so it was for a Jr Machine learning developer/Data scientist
I had a terrible experience with recruiters at a huge firm that can go to hell called Robert Half Technologies. I went to them to interview for a job and at some point they went full-on rude and asked me "what do you bring to the table that would justify the employer paying us $40,000 to have found you?" It was in exactly the kind of tone it reads like it had, too. I was polite because I was in an unfamiliar place and trying to be respectful, but after I left the building I really wished I had told them to shove the job so far up their asses that they could smell the money they were losing as I walked out. Because I also already run a business, I have been getting junk mail from them wanting me to hire them to find workers for my business.
I worked for them once, they got me hired at a place that was only looking for an engineer to start their project and get it as close to MVP as possible before their in-house engineer got back from vacation and fired me. They offered me another interview, but I was done with them after that shit.
100% agree on this company.. I am not a JR level person. But once they drew me to their office and made me sit and basically test my knowledge on everything. I felt like I had taken the full mcse / cisco / cissp in one sitting. I never went back even though they were begging me to take spots they had.
I've worked an RHT post before...
The job itself was amazing and I LOVED my team, but the benefits as a contractor are abysmal and that's being nice, and even tho I had an amazing experience with that position other experiences with RHT recruiters went nowhere quick, and I realized in that moment i got lucky with that one experience
Now I know not to deal with these fools.......these guys and CyberCoders are huge, thousands of reviews on Indeed (not all bad). This tells me they will use you and dump you like garbage and don't really care for the people either. No need to deal with that.
You hit the nail on the head. Recruiters will only send the company the top 3 candidates so their only interest is getting as many qualified people in their stables. They get paid by the hiring companies and have no vested interest in helping anyone get a good job. You want to talk unethical? What about recruiters who regularly post fake jobs to lure you in. Great channel Josh!
Recruiting/recruitment is only done right when the team manager is the one doing so!
@@fmango Agreed lol!
It actually sucks that new devs might fall for this, because they might genuinely get excited that recruiters reach out to them, when in reality they're just a mean for more profit. Great insight on the subject :D
Been applying for three months. Can confirm that the only NICE conversation's I've had were company directs. Stay away from recruiters!! Especially in 2019.
@@sierranexi You mean 'especially if they breath'? ;-)
Never reply to recruiters; for the most part they're a waste of, time, energy and sanity. If you still haven't gotten over the employee mindset, apply to jobs on your own, attend meetups and talk to devs/recruiters in person, never over email.
I came here for the shirt that brings out your eyes. 👁👁
Welcome to dating with josh
🤣🤣🤣
( ͡👁️ ͜ʖ ͡👁️)
Viktor Exactly ^^
You can’t hate the player hate the game. Good tinder analogy lmao
Dude. Stay safe. People may try to sue you for defamation (especially the companies that you're exposing for the stupid shit that they do) . There are a lot of crazy people out there. Good video BTW.
He didn't name any particular recruiters and didn't say anything that isn't an opinion so there are no grounds to sue for defamation. They can sue him anyway, but he would be able to counter-sue them for filing a frivolous lawsuit and get money out of them.
Recruiters 🤦♂️. Calling them out, love it 👍. Do any developers like recruiters??!
Theres a few salty ones here in the comments
Joshua Fluke I do my best not to hire developers via recruiters but some of my clients can only hire via approved recruiters and they are the worst recruiters because they are so relaxed 🤦♂️ - what’s worse than a recruiter? A lazy one because they know you can only hire from them 😭
"This isn't a junior web dev, this is a ho." - A Recruiter Named Slickback
I am applying for jobs in Toronto and I had bad experiences with recruiters sa well. Also I feel like 90% of my applications are not been seen by anyone. I don't know what I can do different to get a stupid job... C#, SQL, React + ES6 experience. I only need a opportunity to show my energy and skills, but I have great problems to get my first job.
Yup
Same boat. MERN stack.
Recommend attending as many night time and weekend dev related events as you can (free ones unless you can afford to pay) and socializing with people, let them know your skills and that you're looking. Seems to be the best way right now. Way too many applicants to compete with online at the entry level, hardly any positions posted for entry-level. Once you're solid mid level, then applying online is worth the effort I think. But if that's your only option or you have time for both, then keep at it.
@@the_letter_b Thank you so much! I have been attending dev meetups as well.
I'm in same situation atm.
What's with the "recruiters" with Indian accents calling like telemarketers for jobs that are no where near you or no where near your qualifications? Yes, most recruiters deserve to be ghosted. Most of them have no class.
Went through four interviews almost 16 years ago now, passed the tests and interviews. This is for a major corp we all know, so will not name them. They offered me 20k less than what I earned back then, stating how much of a benefit it is to work in the stability of a major corp with "career options". The agent called me for weeks afterwards trying to convince me, but fortunately I found a placement at a decent company in between and ghosted the recruiter.
I also had to laugh at an agent calling telling me about this dynamic new startup with lots of "excitement" in the company. The specs were given as "COM+" with windows experience - that was it. No telling if they need C++ ATL or good old VB back then. The recruiter couldn't answer the question so I asked him not to call me again. Within my 25 years in the industry I can honestly say not much changed with these recruiters, even the ones that deem themselves as prestigious.
I remember back in 2013 getting called by a recruiter saying I needed 8+ years of AngularJS experience for a certain position, even though it came out only 3 years earlier (2010). I'm fairly confident that tech recruiters just run down the street screaming at the top of their lungs, shaking everybody that they come across, asking them if they are a Full Stack Developer. If only recruiters were on Tinder, every profile pic would be a dick pic (and one that isn't even theirs).
3:43 I don't trust any hiring process any more. I passed all interviews a few times only to just be told the role was removed.
that happened to me a lot this year in Covid half of them removed or canceled . Nokia told me that their UI design position was canceled I dont get why people are posting position but not hiring.
save for legit recruiters working at the big firms and some stand up guys, i don't trust recruiters at all.
I just landed my first job through a recruiter. I didn't have any issues with getting sent positions I wasn't partially qualified for. My college professor actually recommended that I contact the recruiter that I did and she seems to actually read my resume and only send me jobs that are related to the skills I have listed on there. The fact that I get less money when hired through a recruiter is sad though but I kept getting ghosted by companies when I applied by myself. So it was either a recruiter or continue working part-time at a fast food restaurant. Hopefully, now that I have that "stamp on my resume", I won't need a recruiter to find a position after this one ends (It is only 6 months long).
As I was watching this, got a call from a Rec. for a position that is 3000 miles away for a 3 months contract that has nothing to do with my experience. I wasted about 10 minutes of her time. What have you started Josh? 😆
Oh c'mon.. I needed this vid 6 months ago
Sergey Sachkov same lol
Glad its out regardless
144p gang
gang gang
Gang Stockers....Profile vulnerable candidates for taking their bait while destroying their lives into homelessness.
I dunno, I had a good experience with a recruiter to get my job. If it works well everyone is happy, the company finds someone, recruiter gets their money and you get a job. I was sick of applying for 200 jobs and going nowhere, then after the second recruiter I spoke to ever, I had an interview two days later and got hired. They get as much money for you as they can, and I found it motivating when he called me and psyched me up for my interview. Sometimes it's nice when someone wants you to get hired as much as you do when you're feeling down about the whole process.
Those guys are soooo annoying with their 140k out of college offers that you know you'll never gonna get..
13 recruiter disliked this video xD
I have considered getting out of my small business several times. Every recruiter I've ever talked to has wasted hours and hours of my time, and they didn't even pay for the time. Also, if you intend to get a company name and ghost the recruiter, you need to lie about your name to the recruiter. Many of the recruiter contracts with companies let the recruiter "capture" any candidate that they talk to and you'll be blocked from direct hire as a result.
Yo, this is the daily here in India. Sign up on any job search website and get spammed the shit out. My spam email address is around 11gb out of 15 lol XD
Real shit, can always count on you to keep it 100k
100k plssss
Comparing recruiters to Tinder! 😆 You're not wrong. For real. It's a numbers game in human trafficking.
I just realized that this is happening to me.
I've never been so glad to have subscribed to a channel more than yours . You give so much valuable information
In my experience recruiters are definitely not in the position to decide if someone's a good fit for the job. It's easy if a certain job requirement says I need to know Ruby and I have Ruby listed as one of my skills on my resume. But what if the job requirements says I must have experience with RoR, OOP and MVC... They might just go for the PHP guy, because you know... PHP is also 3 letters.
It is the same way with temp agencies. Rarely do you get a permanent job with the employer the temp agency has a contract with to supply temp employees until they can fill the position themselves and the temp is just out in the cold. And just to say if you put temp jobs on your resume as work experience, 99% of the time you will not get a job from them because their is a stigmatism with temp workers that they are not up to par employees and they are lacking in some way. It is BS. Form your own company as an independent contractor and if you have to work temp jobs in-between jobs use the company you temp at but do not list the temp agency that placed you and pays you. You will be better off and have a much better chance of getting a job offer. Temp workers are usually just thrown away and never get a chance to interview for the job. And almost never will a temp get that job permanently. Recruiters and temp agencies blow a**!!!
Techies capable of real talk is a fucking scarcity at this point. You get down to business like a true scandinavian, man. Don't ever change ❤
Based and redpilled
Hahaha
Do you mean umbrellas? In the UK a recruiter never is never subcontracted, they only get a % of your first salary paid extra from your company (it has no effect on yours), the contract is direct between you and the employer.
Of all the tech job hunting sites out there Cyber coders has to be the worst out there, the recruiters are the most clueless when it comes to tech they are nothing more than like he said salesmen.
They claim to help you get the job but they don't.
Don't go through a recruiter, rather apply to companies directly. You'd get a better salary and have far less bullshit.
Oh fam. You have become top 3 tech TH-camrs for me, I like how It feels so organic and YOU.
I appreciate you Tino
13:08 - 13:12
"They're playin' a game, so you play the game-- *BEAT DROPS!!!* "
Yooo someone please sample that
me: I'm so sick of job hunting and dealing with scummy lying recruiters and HR reps, I need to get away from that for a bit for my mental health
me: oh i guess I'll watch this video
Hey, Joshua, I highly appreciate what you're doing here! I've recently come across your channel in search of advice on programming and landing a job as a software developer after a Mechanical Engineering work experience. The thing is, for some years now I've been talking about recruiters, HR and companies techniques, trying to expose them even on Linkedin - yep, believe it or not, I've done that -. One of my core topics are recruiters and why they can't do sh*t, just there to make their comission and lie to you whenever they can. Nobody ever stands up, people have always made me believe I'm a fool or a crazy guy. The story is long, but I just wanted to tell you that I'm glad that you're openly talking about it. I've tried speaking up as well, but my videos are poor quality - I have no edition skills and I don't intend to acquire them or whatsoever -. The great thing is that we share exactly the same views. Every time I say the commission they make is from your salary people always raise their brows. Whenever I say that these cokroaches -plus HR - brought about the idea of stupid perks that you're actually paying from your pocket at a very high price, nobody seems to agree with me. Beers on Friday? Put that bottle back, you're paying it as if you were at a fancy restaurant. I can't believe people don't see all the scam related to recruitment agencies. But make no mistake, companies are also to blame, they benefit a great deal with this approach.
Then the ceo went on vacation 😂😂😂😂😂 this dude Josh is next level
Top video. Recruiters are nothing more than "second hand car salesmen".
Bullshit job position
“Shame on you for being a dick.”
My new motto.
I had a bad experience with Chevron for a SWE position. I interviewed at school no less too! Hiring manager told me I was a good fit for the position and that I will hear from HR for an offer letter. Never heard back. Sent a few follow up emails and still never heard anything.
Had another bad experience with Keysight for a SWE position. Had 5 over the phone interviews, I hear back a couple weeks later and the position got canned. 🙄🤦🏻♂️
Hiring process sucks!
Oof
Don't apologize to the sharks..
Correct
Sounds to me like recruiters are time wasters for you and money wasters for the company that is hiring.
I'm graduating in less than a year with a degree in Computer Science and Engineering. Your videos have totally helped put me into the right mindset for job hunting when I get out.
That ending thooo. They playing the game, so you play the game. Then beat drops. Amazing advice. Needed to hear this
One way to get a recruiter to tell you who the customer/client/company is, is to tell them that you want to make sure you are not going to get double submitted for the same role. Sometimes telling them that you get lots of calls for the same gig lets them know that they better play it straight because you are a valuable person and it is not a matter of IF you are getting an interview, it's more like when and with who is another recruiter.
Another nice one is to pre-empt them and ask them, hey is this for the "company name" job? They cannot lie to you if you guess it right and they absolutely hate that shit. When you guess it right, they usually ask if someone else submitted you yet. Tell the truth, but if you are like me, I usually wait for my preferred recruiters to eventually call me (Or I call them and ask them to represent me for it) about the gigs I know that have just hit the boards. Other faster recruiters will tell you the names of the company unlike others.
Genuis dude
One more reason why I do NEVER like to respond to CyberCoder like recruiters....they never had the full picture of the job description or the job requirements. It is hard to find recruiters that know what the employers are asking for "exactly"
Recruiters, estate agents and salesmen.... The worst in the world!!
In my opinion, understanding how to get the job and not getting screwed is just as important as knowing how to do your job. Changing the culture one video at a time👍
Bro please keep these type of videos up you’ve been a big help I go through the same things with recruiters there a pain
The fact that they still hire like this is mind boggling. The incentives need to be better aligned for actual candidates with performance and less of a beauty pageant. No wonder most companies even up to c suite have extensive objective data showing negligible if not even negative signal. I work in economics/finance/markets primarily and consult about corporate vision/product dev etc among other things. You know how many people don’t even have 3 years of above S&P 500 predictive signal on paper yet basically what they’re actually being hired to do is predict the market? Then you’ll have guys who are in firms that wave their title in your face but they’ve got zero track record. Explain how your company title is worth it to your investor to be paying millions or billions to the firm? I have more than a decade modestly so far and I freak most people out when I do interviews etc with the performance from projects I can document and because it’s a white hot blade. Eg I don’t need to skew numbers, commit criminal fraud and to be blunt keep that shit out of my house/proximity. What’s funnier still is depending who rejects and the context it’s a bit of a litmus test for whose books are potentially trash and who has compromise within their companies that’s likely destroying their investor/shareholder value/whatever alpha they have if there’s even any.
The only good thing I can say about recruiters is that they *can* get you access to job opportunities with companies that do not wish to sort through all of the applicants directly. I mean, who's more worthless -- HR or recruiters (commission sales)? HR, sadly. Your resume will most likely get rejected by the asinine keyword/buzzword filters on most direct applications, and even if it does get through it generally has to pass by a clueless HR department before it might be presented to the actual decision making manager of your potential department. Of course you'll end up wasting your time at a lot of moronic job interviews (if you get them), and recruiters are just another time wasting endeavor that will eat into your days without actually having a job to even offer on top of that. I still get emails from recruiting firms I worked with 10 years ago about a "new opportunity that may be a good fit for me", even though I haven't even wanted to do Accounting for years now.
Relatively speaking, you do stand a better chance of being hired directly vs. through a recruiter due to the inflated extra costs they charge, but getting an interview on a direct application is harder.
I agree with this. It's a pretty important aspect you bring up. Every job I've been to the person involved with hiring is super overworked or struggling with getting an interview into their schedule. Let alone reading through tons of resumes. They get it done but I imagine delegating to a middleman is the more time-efficient option.
@@Insideoutcest Yeah, I'm not a big fan of either recruiters or HR (obviously), but I've had both good and bad experiences with recruiters. The most frustrating ones are the ones that post job listings that aren't real just to get you to come to their office in person (fully dressed as if it's an interview), only to find out the listing you responded to wasn't real. Some will constantly bug you to go to interviews that aren't a good fit, seemingly in order to be able to keep working with them. But others are legitimate, and I've landed a couple of jobs that way as well. The whole job hunting process is frustrating as hell, but at least the recruiters offer one possible way of getting in somewhere when nothing seems to be coming up in your search.
Edit: Forgot to address the main point -- yeah, HR people are often tasked with handling the job search when they clearly may not have the time or are the right person to sort through the technical aspects of the resume. It's why they stick the keyword filters on and make it hard to get through. But they're usually not looking for a person who is technically qualified, just has the personality the company wants.
Lol, in all of my profiles I state that I'm ONLY looking for opportunities in my City on the West Coast and that's it - nowhere else, and I get spammy messages all the time for jobs somewhere in NC, NJ, NH. I dated a girl who was a recruiter (not in the tech industry sadly) and tried to explain what I'm interested in and what I do and her eyes just glazed over, she just kept trying to match the languages I know up with bullet points in job descriptions. Trying to explain the difference between Java and Javascript to her was tough. These recruiter's mindset is just match up as much as you can and spam, spam, spam
bloody recruiters.. a stain on the industry. gatewaying jobs they know nothing about and generally wasting applicants time. and unfortunately for people searching for IT jobs theyre often unavoidable.
You’ll notice recruiters always ask for a word version of the resume so they can change stuff to it.
As I understand it, they are so lazy, they run all the applicants through keyword scan to see if your resume ticks the required boxes. That’s why they want word docs and not PDFs.
@@georgecaplan11 That is when you add the white text at the bottom to hit all the keywords
Need the job = Need the money$. Its why they continue to do this. It sucks but eh, I guess it is what it is. :/ I-I could be wrong I don't know...
I am an Angular Dev, I was dropped by a company after I passed 3 interviews and a code test, When they had to send the contract they said the client requirements changed, They are now seeking to for a wordpress Developer.
Trying to get my first tech job, cant even get a recruiter to spit in my direction without experience
get a few years of experience and you will spit on them
But big name recruiters (like Deloitte) are the best hassle though - because they get big company contracts. Even with the % skim and no benefits and self tax etc., contract jobs (especially in IT) can pay up to 3 times more. So if your job is paying 100k a year, as a contractor on a project you can triple that, minus fees. Downside: zero stability, which it sounds like the case for most of you guys anyway. Other downside: you're not an employee so there's a good chance you'll get treated like garbage.
Bruh you have perfectly described my experience with Cyber Coders to the letter! I constantly get emails saying they're hiring for 70K/80K/100K+ but want 3+ years experience when I've made it crystal clear to the recruiter that I'm looking for my first developer position lol.
Did you get the job? I applied for UI position. Im looking for my 1st UI design position and my work is in my portfolio.
@@rejuvinatez347 Nope! I ended up going elsewhere. Cyber Coders is great if you either have a Bachelor's or years of experience, not so much if you're trying to break into the market.
@@FamousWolfe what job was it for? Im going for UI.
wow, I should look at my emails, I bet I'l see the same thing, lol.
They send me shit like "going out on a limb here..." or "sorry, not sorry"
Also, I honestly told a recruiter that I was and she DROPPED ME and said she couldn't work with someone who wasn't working only with her. BUT THE IS FUCKING HAPPY WORKING WITH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.
Some recruiters pay for bootcamps
OMG you are so right man! I receive lot of email and i dont even know some of the languages they propose me or dont even have 6-7 years experience... WTF
Most Recruiters: promise the world, deliver absolutely not
They promise themselves to get that bread lol
dude. thank you for this. i've been 'working with' recruiters for a while (fortunately contract-to-hire isn't a thing in the UK) and i just keep getting bad vibes off their used car salesman pitches. even when the jobs seem good. the level of stress involved is just not justifiable - i am better than this
I had a bad experience with a contract to hire job like this. The problem was the company. They kept the recruiter completely in the dark about start date, requirements, and on and on. I got sick of it and told the recruiter I'm out
Truly impressed by your pragmatism.
I'm watching this as I recently got burned by a recruiter. First and last time I'm ever working with a recruiter! I was out of work for ~3 months at the point of interviewing for this company that the recruiter threw at me. So I was getting pretty desperate, especially considering all the hiring freezes this time of the year. The recruiter told me the same bullshit, "great culture", "people-oriented", blah blah blah. I guess the joke's on me for not being more vigilant.
Long story short, the person interviewing me loved my application, and wanted to hire me and sent me an offer. I knew recruiters pressure you into accepting the first offer you get, but I wasn't prepared for how weird and rude this recruiter got when I asked that I need more time to think before accepting the offer. She kept calling me 10 times a day and messaging in between. I turned off my phone from the stress.
In the end I accepted the offer because I really needed the job. Just within ~2 weeks of joining, I found out the recruiter had added a lot of lies about the company and their working style. I also found out the circumstances under which the previous person in my role left. Not good. Again, yes, my fault for not being more vigilant, but even the people I interviewed for didn't present anything but roses when I asked them questions about the work.
In the end, being dishonest is not going to work out for them. As soon as hiring picks up again next year, I will be changing jobs. The recruiter lying to me to accept the offer is not going to have the best track record. I'll be making sure to let everyone in my network know not to work with this recruiter. And the company that presented nothing but roses is going to have to go through the entire expensive hiring + training process again.
It's so difficult to avoid recruiters, because almost every company uses them. Even though the companies get burned by recruiters too. Recruiters regularly present totally random candidates. If the candidate ends up leaving within a few months, there is no penalty faced by the recruiter. In my previous workplace, a recruiter got 3 candidates in, all by lying to the candidates about the workplace culture (it was shit toxic place to work at), and they all ended up leaving within a few weeks. The recruiter still made ~$30k+ despite such poor performance.
I once ghosted a recruiter after finding a much better job that paid more and they ended up calling me 26+ times to the point I blocked their number and they also emailed and texted me 6 times. They were trying to guilt trip me because I had spent so much of their precious time in the hiring process. Maybe they shouldn’t have done 4 interviews in 4 weeks and waste my time while the place I went to work for just did one 30 minute interview, tour, and then hired me.
If you get linkedin premium and switch your status to actively looking, prepare for 100 emails a day for irrelevant positions from recruiters. I talked with a recruiter on the phone today and he said "This is a great opportunity...its a contract position that pays $25/hr". I told him I'm not interested because my target salary is 80k+. He then said "No problem, I can negotiate to $45/hr". What the? Click. Not all of them are bad, but the majority of recruiters just throw out as much bait as possible hoping to get a bite.
Working with recruiters isn’t inherently a bad thing. Just remember, they’re there to make money off of you. Your priorities are not their priorities.
Thats bad for me tho.
That's Exactly what you do. Avoid recruiters. They do nothing but take your money. Pimp is the best word to describe these people. I know some recruiters who pay so little it's a joke. They get twice the hourly money of the actual person working. That should be illegal.
Thanks to one of your tips in another video I was able to negotiate good salary. Thank you for being helpful!
The reason recruiters ask if you're working with anyone else is to know the Timeline. If you say, truthfully, that you are, they will expedite the process, not the other way around.
The best was when I went in to see a recruiter, had me wait 30 minutes after our arranged time and once we started talking he just went on talking shit about another recruiting company. Then ghosted me after we met once. It was horrible.
Many large companies will only work with the recruiters for 6- month-2- hire contractors. These jobs aren't usually posted.
God dammit McCrudden
Restepa! , every scenario you mentioned happens at Helpdesk and Desktop support level, its amazing in one day you can get multiple companies with same job offer different job descriptions etc...sometimes they know your situation too well and that your deseperate your so right!
If landing an IT job is this competitive, why are we hiring so many foreign programmers with HB1 visas? I live in Washington State, and it seems like a lot of big tech companies, to include state agencies, have like 40% of their IT staff from India. I have nothing against foreigners, but as a new software developer it does irk me that I have to compete against foreign contractors with a lot more experience than I have. It's not the illegal Mexican immigrants that are taking the decent jobs, most of them are just doing minimum wage physical labor that no one else wants to do like lawn maintenance and housekeeping; it's actually the legalized contractors from Asia that are swooping up the decent opportunities, especially in the tech industry. How am I supposed to compete against HB1 visa developers?
This is just bad advice. Recruiters know some candidates will go behind their back when told about opportunities. What you don't realize is that they usually have direct relationships with the hiring manager, and will disqualify you for doing so.
Also, not all jobs that recruiters have are listed on the website.
Also, it *isn't* cheaper for a company to hire you directly bc of the cost of hiring employees. Background checks, payroll, unemployment tax, workers comp insurance, benefits, stock, etc all add up to the cost of hiring an employee.
Profit margins on contract employees are SLIM we are talking 1-3% on average. The profit comes from VOLUME, that's why you've witnessed so much spam from crappy recruiters.
Correct, this is how it usually goes. However, the type of 'recruiter' that Josh is talking about also exist. You just need to figure out (gut-feeling, first impression, your bullshit-detector) which type of recruiter you're dealing with, and then either choose to go around a bullshit recruiter or follow suit with a legit one.
Ima go around you anyway I can. Sorry.
@@1Joren Ya I totally agree. I have a list of all the recruiters I've spoken to (on my last search - about 50) and have them sorted by good, caution, and bad. Also with notes of what they offered. On my next search, I will email out the good, and avoid any bad repeats.
@@JoshuaFluke1 No need to apologize, you do you, but I'm explaining the reasoning behind some of the things you were seeing. It can be beneficial to work with a recruiter, but I understand why you would be hesitant to not.
I don’t think the recruiters get a cut if the pay is higher because many times recruiters have bragged on Twitter how stupid their client was that they could’ve asked for more. I think they just get a lumpsum for placing a body. Maybe the recruiting company gets a little more but not the recruiters so they don’t care if you make $80k or 120k.
First line in my linked in profile directly addresses some of the resume pushing companies active in my field. It was insane how much spam they sent me, I just had to put something like "If you're with XYZ, please don't contact me".
I just got a great job direct hired by a great recruiter. I also got burned by like 6 of them in my search. This is my first full time pos out of college. My practical advise is to work with recruiters and say yes to everything, until the offer comes, then you can be picky. But if a young guy/girl watches this and thinks they are just gonna waltz on in to a direct hire solo? You’re putting yourself at a terrible disadvantage.
IMO, the single best resource for working with recruiters is Nick Corcodilos's blog at asktheheadhunter.com. Dude is a seasoned headhunter that exposes just how incompetent most of these bonehead recruiters are.
Also, the best piece of advice I can give to anyone is never, ever, under any circumstances disclose your salary history. Never. You have absolutely nothing to gain by disclosing this information and everything to lose if you do. If they ask, simply say that you prefer to keep that information private and counter with your desired salary range for the position. If they persist, walk.
Thanks for the recruiter advice. I've been getting yanked around by them recently. The interviews they send me to don't line up with my skill set and end up wasting too much of my time.
I forward every single recruiter's email that I get to me@rescam.org so they can get scammed all fucking day. 😂
I thought you started rapping when that hip music started playing at the end of the video.