@Bailey I’d just run two and cut a Peace of Mind and a Lich’s Mastery. Point of the Tutor is to get Lich, then grab Peace of Mind once Lich is out. Peace of Mind can save you in a pinch, sure, but it’s usually a dead draw if you can’t do something with that life gain. Going down a Lich prevents drawing it too early, Gideon’s a better “no lose” clause so you keep all four of those, Lich is there mostly for the card draw engine. Source: Big fan of Lich cards and running 5-Color Mastery. @MTGGoldfish, I play Soulfire Grand Master instead of Aetherborns in my deck, and Lightning Strikes for removal (which becomes life gain with Soulfire and card draw with Soulfire and Lich), and Soulfire’s second ability activated and casting a Chance for Glory ensures you have unlimited turns. Only problem is the 2 toughness body will still die to -2/-2 effects easily even with indestructible.
Easily makes my short list of favorite against the odds episodes. I love these convoluted combo decks, but often they're only interesting during the combo turns. But not this list, this one did cool things even when it wasn't going off!
I’ve found Sanguine Bond to be a great Pioneer addition to my version of this deck. I’ve often killed opponents with the drain from that, well before I reached my win con.
Would that new saga that makes a wall be a consideration for this deck? It slows the game down and draws you a plains to help with the fixing, and its not completely dead once mastery is out because of the lifegain at the end
That game against Erebos was nuts. Personally I probably would have scooped after the Thoughtseize. Thankfully Erebos helped you by tempting your opponent with that sweet sweet card draw for the low price of the game.
I know this doesn't fit in with the spirit of the deck but I'm not sure I could play red with demonic pact and not find a way to slot in a couple harmless offerings. But nonetheless an awesome deck!
(3:20) If Demonic Pact were a Saga that said (1) Opponent discards two, (2) Deal 4 damage to target creature or player, (3) You draw two (then sacrifice it of course) [and that is it] for four mana it would be absolutely bonkers. Maybe some of them will play out like that.
I actually use the Approach of the second sun and Lich's Mastery in my Ayli control Commander deck as my main win condition. 20 mana, two cards, win the game
You do draw you're entire deck to be fair. It's probably better when thassa's oracle comes out and go sultai. I think there's a choice to be made but when mastery is down you're basically winning if you're not dead that turn. I do think it's probably better. But Gideon is so useful in this deck. You'd have to cut the extra turn spells and pact if you wanted to run that way
I didn't really. I think there could be another build that took advantage of it, but would probably need to avoid Gideon (the mana would just be too brutal, especially in Pioneer without fetchlands). Some sort of Sultai Mastery build with Horizon Chimera could be fun though.
@Keith Weidner The land enters play tapped and the mausoleum wanderer can be sacrificed to counter an instant or sorcery unless it’s controller pays X where X is its power.
I really liked running renewed faith with lich's mastery, at the worst its 2 mana draw 1 gain 2 life and it only gets better from there. Maybe in the next iteration? :D
@@maxwellbalkema5388 firstly you can edit comments to remove the reply. And secondly the swamp wouldn't be untapped. Since he top deck the aether born that's hindsight. But yes cracking the passage is probably correct
Three color decks in pioneer can be incredibly punishing. You almost want to run the tap tri-lands to ensure you have some that tap for all your colors.
At 17:17 why not fire up shambling vent and block the 1/1? It just kills the 1/1, you gain 2 life, and you still have revolt and plenty of black mana to cast both pushes. That play ended up costing you 5 life, a loyalty off of Gideon, and 2 cards exiled with Mastery 😬
I dont understand why Approach of the Second Sun is in the deck if Seth is always going to choose winning with creature beats through several turns over casting it to instantly win
Game two against the Soulflayer deck felt more like human error than anything else. I would have cracked failed passage on their turn that way you can grab a land
Sort of, although you could eventually exile the Curse to Lich's Mastery, so you could stop the loop whenever you wanted, so I think you'd actually just draw as much of your deck as you'd like.
This deck needs Nahiri (I run a Mardu Control shell where it's a similar list almost), she'll be able to pop off the D. Pacts so you don't lose, and also card draw.
Can't chance for glory technically give Gideon of the Trials permanent indestructible? That seems surprisingly okay as murderous rider / assassin's trophy protection.
I often agree with your 1 land keeps. But you have to admit that you only kept the hand against soulflayer because of leyline. It was a leyline keep. It wasn't favoured to work out. Not even close. You needed several lands in a row and even if you were playing 30 it wouldn't be consistently functional. You kept on the strength of leyline of the void.
match one, seths sideboard plan: let's take out gifted aetherborn, who would want those against aggro anyway? it isnt like they just bought us 3 turns last game
Pioneer is definitely the best competitive constructed format. No other format allows for this kind of brewing potential and I love it for that. I need to build me a solid budget deck.
i think glorious end is better than chance for glory. yeah it doesn't give your creatures indestructible but you can use it as a counterspell. which is a pretty big deal because permanent wipes actually kill you in this deck, not just make you concede from frustration lol edit: i guess what i mean to say is if you're only gonna have 2 of one of them and 4 of the other, glorious end is the better of the two. because in situations where you don't have lich's mastery or you don't have any creatures or peace of mind, but you're under a lot of pressure or the opponent is threatening a combo, which is a pretty common scenario judging by the video, you need to be able to use those cards defensively. when you know you're for sure gonna use the cards, obviously chance for glory is better. but in most situations you don't actually want to use them until the last minute. you're not expecting to use chance for glory defensively just to get a desperate chance at a decent draw. when that does happen it's usually because something happened on the opponent's turn, right? then suddenly you realize you can't afford to keep holding out, you just need to act fast or you lose altogether. and in that scenario you can at least counter them on their turn with glorious end. let me try to put it another way. obviously casting it on their upkeep isn't quantitatively different from casting glorious end on your own turn. and it's obviously objectively better to cast it on their upkeep than to let them cast a spell and then counter it with glorious end. but in most situations you're just not gonna cast either unless you absolutely have to. you're not planning to cast it on their upkeep because it doesn't benefit you, since you don't have the combo pieces on board. so in other words the intended use of both cards is to cast them to gain an extra turn, but sometimes you're holding them in hand until you have a way to actually benefit from that extra turn. in some cases you have no choice but to use them just to essentially cycle them for a card that saves you. but in that situation, glorious end is even better, because it actually counters something they play as opposed to just giving you an extra draw. it's a marginal scenario but i think so are the scenarios where chance for glory is better and you don't already have one in hand. like the only way chance for glory is better is when you have creatures on board that you're trying to attack or block with. but by the time you have creatures on board you've probably drawn chance for glory even if you only have 2 or 3 in the deck. so in my mind a better ratio would be 3 chances and 3 glorious ends, but maybe 2 chances and 4 glorious ends would be good too just considering the insane amount of card draw you have from peace of mind. usually when you're trying to go for the combo you already have enough card draw set up to guarantee you draw at least one chance for glory. and as long as you have at least 1, any additional copies have no added benefit over glorious end.
also maybe i'm a sad janklord but i would totally play reliquary tower in this deck, just from watching how many cards you discarded. obviously you're getting some sort of value being able to exile them to lich's mastery if you need to. but you could just as easily discard them from hand if you needed, and from there you'd be able to play them if you needed to. and discarding lands = losing peace of mind triggers = less draw = chance of fizzling. reliquary tower messes up your mana a bit but just a singleton wouldn't be too detrimental and you'd be very likely to draw it by the time you have lich's mastery + peace of mind on the board, since you can just use peace of mind to draw reliquary tower. might not draw it for a couple turns but on average it probably saves you like 10-20 discards?
btw hilarious when simic flash player conceded when he would have exiled your whole board on the backswing. that made my day lol. i guess simic flash players induce so many rage quits on a regular basis they think that's what you're supposed to do
You should stop keeping 1 landers, even less if you have to draw several lands in a row. Drawing the one land to enable a cantrip or a better draw spell is one thing, but having to naturally draw 3 in a row is not rough running, it's... Lack of wisdom. Let's say it like that.
"At least Nexus is banned."
*Takes 6 turns in a row*
I love the flavor of Gideon preventing a loss to demonic pact given what happened in war of the spark.
Wow you right
Stormchaser9 shoot dude
Duuuuude. I didn't notice that. That makes is so much of a flavor win. Also shows how WotC had that planned all along. (Maybe.)
@@notsm maro said it was an 8-9 year plan didn't he? Sure it was probably a story outline but still
Stormchaser9 what about the flavor of Gideon preventing the damage from the Erebos’ Titan? You know, the one that made him spark?
Wow Seth built a flavor deck. Using Gideon to avoid dying to a Demonic Pact? What’s next, casting Storm the Citadel to destroy a Bolas’ Citadel?
Draw cards... Extra turns... "Lose the game" triggers being ignored... What could be better? Format solved.
Broke it :)
Best part is it is blue free and still does all those things
Idyllic tutor with this seems like a good include once beyond death is out
Yeah, probably worth it.
Could be okay. Really slow. What would u cut for it.
@Bailey
I’d just run two and cut a Peace of Mind and a Lich’s Mastery. Point of the Tutor is to get Lich, then grab Peace of Mind once Lich is out. Peace of Mind can save you in a pinch, sure, but it’s usually a dead draw if you can’t do something with that life gain. Going down a Lich prevents drawing it too early, Gideon’s a better “no lose” clause so you keep all four of those, Lich is there mostly for the card draw engine.
Source: Big fan of Lich cards and running 5-Color Mastery.
@MTGGoldfish, I play Soulfire Grand Master instead of Aetherborns in my deck, and Lightning Strikes for removal (which becomes life gain with Soulfire and card draw with Soulfire and Lich), and Soulfire’s second ability activated and casting a Chance for Glory ensures you have unlimited turns. Only problem is the 2 toughness body will still die to -2/-2 effects easily even with indestructible.
52:40 “Draw four cards! Yes please. Lose the game? No thank you.”
"Gar-blin dark dwellers. "
21:03
I've had people shun Peace of Mind in the past. Now I can use this fringe example to prove them wrong!
I don't think it's good in general, but it is sweet with Lich's Mastery!
@@MTGGoldfish :)
I just now found out that the saying is "peace of mind", not "piece of mind".
*Wilderness Reclamation is combo-ing off*
Mardu Mastery: "Hold our beers"
We're hitting jank levels here that should be possible in a competitive constructed format :D
I remember being dumbfounded when Gids of the Trials was spoiled... "How can they print such a powerful ability on a 3 mana planeswalker??"
Gideon is really good in the right situations.
I played a UW flash deck in standard. I remember flashing in Gideons using Raf Capeshan to keep from losing. It was pretty fun.
meanwhile..
oko : *dab*
If he had the same starting loyalty as 3 mana walkers nowadays, he would be busted.
Easily makes my short list of favorite against the odds episodes. I love these convoluted combo decks, but often they're only interesting during the combo turns. But not this list, this one did cool things even when it wasn't going off!
Glad you liked it!
I’ve found Sanguine Bond to be a great Pioneer addition to my version of this deck. I’ve often killed opponents with the drain from that, well before I reached my win con.
Would that new saga that makes a wall be a consideration for this deck? It slows the game down and draws you a plains to help with the fixing, and its not completely dead once mastery is out because of the lifegain at the end
Is it better then Gifted Aetherborn?
Maybe. I'm not sure it's better than Gifted Aetherborn (since Aetherborn can take down big creatures thanks to Deathtouch), but it would be fine.
51:29 "Silly opponent, it's indestructible!" This message was brought to you by Trix(c) cereal.
That game against Erebos was nuts. Personally I probably would have scooped after the Thoughtseize.
Thankfully Erebos helped you by tempting your opponent with that sweet sweet card draw for the low price of the game.
@21:00 Garblin Dark Dwellers
Deck is super sweet by the way! Love it!
You had me at "Peace of Mind" jank
I know this doesn't fit in with the spirit of the deck but I'm not sure I could play red with demonic pact and not find a way to slot in a couple harmless offerings. But nonetheless an awesome deck!
Yeah, one Harmless Offering might be correct.
yes raplacing approche for harmless
Wow, those were some spectacular wins!
I really wish that Demonic Pact read "when ~ enters the battlefield or at the beginning of your upkeep,"
(3:20) If Demonic Pact were a Saga that said (1) Opponent discards two, (2) Deal 4 damage to target creature or player, (3) You draw two (then sacrifice it of course) [and that is it] for four mana it would be absolutely bonkers.
Maybe some of them will play out like that.
I actually use the Approach of the second sun and Lich's Mastery in my Ayli control Commander
deck as my main win condition. 20 mana, two cards, win the game
Did you consider/test the infinite draw combo with lich's mastery + horizon chimera?
You do draw you're entire deck to be fair. It's probably better when thassa's oracle comes out and go sultai. I think there's a choice to be made but when mastery is down you're basically winning if you're not dead that turn.
I do think it's probably better. But Gideon is so useful in this deck. You'd have to cut the extra turn spells and pact if you wanted to run that way
I didn't really. I think there could be another build that took advantage of it, but would probably need to avoid Gideon (the mana would just be too brutal, especially in Pioneer without fetchlands). Some sort of Sultai Mastery build with Horizon Chimera could be fun though.
@@MTGGoldfish we have Thassa's Oracle for this build now
I don't understand the concession on game 3 of the first match. You drew the land...
@Keith Weidner The land enters play tapped and the mausoleum wanderer can be sacrificed to counter an instant or sorcery unless it’s controller pays X where X is its power.
Seeing this pop up on my feed made my day!!!
Sweet!
I really liked running renewed faith with lich's mastery, at the worst its 2 mana draw 1 gain 2 life and it only gets better from there. Maybe in the next iteration? :D
19:22 One-Two-Three, Four Five! Six-Seven-Eight, Nine Ten! Eleven Twelve!!
Now this is spicy
Lich's Mastery is really fun at making spicy decks.
At 35:30 you could have cracked fabled passage to get a swamp and played gifted Aetherborn
Sorry, 35:25
35:15
Fabled passage is basically an evolving wilds except when you get to four mana
@@maxwellbalkema5388 firstly you can edit comments to remove the reply.
And secondly the swamp wouldn't be untapped. Since he top deck the aether born that's hindsight.
But yes cracking the passage is probably correct
Yeah I'm not sure why he kept it for so many turns. He wasn't going to be casting CFG anytime soon so why not get a swamp...
Three color decks in pioneer can be incredibly punishing. You almost want to run the tap tri-lands to ensure you have some that tap for all your colors.
16:43 why not attack with gideon or plus on the token, let gideon die on opponents turn and then push the beast when he dies
At 17:17 why not fire up shambling vent and block the 1/1? It just kills the 1/1, you gain 2 life, and you still have revolt and plenty of black mana to cast both pushes. That play ended up costing you 5 life, a loyalty off of Gideon, and 2 cards exiled with Mastery 😬
Doesn't anger beat selfless spirit
Going into this week Glorious End is 10-0 in Against the Odds. Looking forward to another perfect run
That preview stream was sweet today
Thanks!
Taking all the extra turns and "counter" spells when opponent is playing a sultai reclamation deck, good.
#Karma
Game one against mono green should have blocked and killed soldier token the tapped for Mana. With shambleing vent. Time 17:30
ghosts in your house at 3am be like: 1:00:40
I dont understand why Approach of the Second Sun is in the deck if Seth is always going to choose winning with creature beats through several turns over casting it to instantly win
Game two against the Soulflayer deck felt more like human error than anything else. I would have cracked failed passage on their turn that way you can grab a land
Approach and Lich's mastery? AWWW YEAH.
I love your brews, dude
But what about vesners journal?
No Max hand size
At beginning of upkeep, gain life equal to number of cards in hand
How would curse of fool's wisdom work with lich's mastery. Would it just loop until you ran out of things to exile?
Sort of, although you could eventually exile the Curse to Lich's Mastery, so you could stop the loop whenever you wanted, so I think you'd actually just draw as much of your deck as you'd like.
You should have at least tried the Anger at 11:00, so many people F6 when they have actions like that available.
This deck needs Nahiri (I run a Mardu Control shell where it's a similar list almost), she'll be able to pop off the D. Pacts so you don't lose, and also card draw.
Mardu Turns. wow. No words.
Wouldn’t anger still exile through selfless spirit indestructible?
Nope. Indestructible negates the 3 damage. Herein negating the exile
They don't die to get exiled. Go down to under 0 health but don't begin to die so can't be changed to exile
But it is a if they would die like trample no?
Dread presence seems good in this deck
This... is the nuttiest pile of jank... and I love it.
YES. I love Lich's Mastery
Can't chance for glory technically give Gideon of the Trials permanent indestructible? That seems surprisingly okay as murderous rider / assassin's trophy protection.
When sideboarding, why take out the Chance for glory over the glorious end? Isn't chance for glory almost strictly better?
Depends. Glorious End is easier to cast and exiles your opponent's stack.
I often agree with your 1 land keeps. But you have to admit that you only kept the hand against soulflayer because of leyline. It was a leyline keep. It wasn't favoured to work out. Not even close. You needed several lands in a row and even if you were playing 30 it wouldn't be consistently functional. You kept on the strength of leyline of the void.
Approach of the Second Sun... ugh... The bane of my very existence. I hate the card, but because it's you playing it I won't hate it as much.
I’ve seen Back to nature in some SBs...
You should do a non budget cats tribal for pioneer
There's a decklist on goldfish on the article for it. I doubt he'd play the same deck again basically
@Ashra oooohh I didn’t see the article, thank you
Yeees! Mastery finally here :D
11:00 is the Anger not good enough? O___O
They had a Selfless Spirit to counter Anger of the Gods
Do they still have stickers available?
"Garblin Darkdwellers"- SaffronOlive 2020
match one, seths sideboard plan: let's take out gifted aetherborn, who would want those against aggro anyway? it isnt like they just bought us 3 turns last game
Pioneer is definitely the best competitive constructed format. No other format allows for this kind of brewing potential and I love it for that. I need to build me a solid budget deck.
i think glorious end is better than chance for glory. yeah it doesn't give your creatures indestructible but you can use it as a counterspell. which is a pretty big deal because permanent wipes actually kill you in this deck, not just make you concede from frustration lol
edit: i guess what i mean to say is if you're only gonna have 2 of one of them and 4 of the other, glorious end is the better of the two. because in situations where you don't have lich's mastery or you don't have any creatures or peace of mind, but you're under a lot of pressure or the opponent is threatening a combo, which is a pretty common scenario judging by the video, you need to be able to use those cards defensively. when you know you're for sure gonna use the cards, obviously chance for glory is better. but in most situations you don't actually want to use them until the last minute. you're not expecting to use chance for glory defensively just to get a desperate chance at a decent draw. when that does happen it's usually because something happened on the opponent's turn, right? then suddenly you realize you can't afford to keep holding out, you just need to act fast or you lose altogether. and in that scenario you can at least counter them on their turn with glorious end.
let me try to put it another way. obviously casting it on their upkeep isn't quantitatively different from casting glorious end on your own turn. and it's obviously objectively better to cast it on their upkeep than to let them cast a spell and then counter it with glorious end. but in most situations you're just not gonna cast either unless you absolutely have to. you're not planning to cast it on their upkeep because it doesn't benefit you, since you don't have the combo pieces on board. so in other words the intended use of both cards is to cast them to gain an extra turn, but sometimes you're holding them in hand until you have a way to actually benefit from that extra turn. in some cases you have no choice but to use them just to essentially cycle them for a card that saves you. but in that situation, glorious end is even better, because it actually counters something they play as opposed to just giving you an extra draw.
it's a marginal scenario but i think so are the scenarios where chance for glory is better and you don't already have one in hand. like the only way chance for glory is better is when you have creatures on board that you're trying to attack or block with. but by the time you have creatures on board you've probably drawn chance for glory even if you only have 2 or 3 in the deck. so in my mind a better ratio would be 3 chances and 3 glorious ends, but maybe 2 chances and 4 glorious ends would be good too just considering the insane amount of card draw you have from peace of mind. usually when you're trying to go for the combo you already have enough card draw set up to guarantee you draw at least one chance for glory. and as long as you have at least 1, any additional copies have no added benefit over glorious end.
also maybe i'm a sad janklord but i would totally play reliquary tower in this deck, just from watching how many cards you discarded. obviously you're getting some sort of value being able to exile them to lich's mastery if you need to. but you could just as easily discard them from hand if you needed, and from there you'd be able to play them if you needed to. and discarding lands = losing peace of mind triggers = less draw = chance of fizzling. reliquary tower messes up your mana a bit but just a singleton wouldn't be too detrimental and you'd be very likely to draw it by the time you have lich's mastery + peace of mind on the board, since you can just use peace of mind to draw reliquary tower. might not draw it for a couple turns but on average it probably saves you like 10-20 discards?
btw hilarious when simic flash player conceded when he would have exiled your whole board on the backswing. that made my day lol. i guess simic flash players induce so many rage quits on a regular basis they think that's what you're supposed to do
6:47 y'all
Sad there's no one of harmless offering to just take out opp with pact, but I will survive
3 color deck with xBBB cost, xRW, BBR, xRR, xWW, xBB costs... I feel like mardu trilands are actually great in this deck, prove me wrong
Rip CollegeHumor 11:06
I hate the early scoopers the last player threw away the entire match for no reason .
You scoop to early seth!
I was enjoying the video till you conceded at 11:10, then I had to take a mental health break
You should stop keeping 1 landers, even less if you have to draw several lands in a row. Drawing the one land to enable a cantrip or a better draw spell is one thing, but having to naturally draw 3 in a row is not rough running, it's... Lack of wisdom. Let's say it like that.
Ssssspicyyy
who the fuck plays hate cards for life gain
This deck gets rekt so hard to the new sac an enchantment spell its not even funny.
Black shouldn't be able to kill enchantments!
You seem a bit salty and/or hasty this video.
First!
2nd!