In A Flash: How One Player Bested Magic's Most Ridiculous Tournament
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2025
- Flash Hulk is a combo that strikes fear into the hearts of Magic players everywhere. Banned or restricted is just about every format it was playable in including Legacy, Vintage, Commander and cEDH this instant speed two card combo could threaten to win as early as turn two and in some versions of the build could even win in your OPPONENTS upkeep when pushed to its limit.
This is the story of the event that started it all and when young MTG pro Steve Sadin is given an offer he can't refuse to play in a Legacy event despite never having seen the deck before he just jams one of the most broken decks in the format's existence as the format has been sent into upheaval only a few weeks prior.
Grand Prixs are a beautiful slice of Magic history that for the most part have not been captured by time nearly as much as we would like. This is an attempt to piece together one of the most incredible two day Magic events that ever happened that will never happen again.
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Credits:
My initial research got the power level errata timelines a little wrong and the VO was recorded so long ago that it felt not worth re-recording for a few minor changes. This article by Christopher Coppola from SCG was a great resource in understanding just how on earth this GP came to be: articles.starc...
Also apologies for the differences in VO audio for this video, it was written and recorded when I was away and stayed locked as I edited the video up until release. Next video should have my usual audio setup.
Footage used from TheMagicShow with courtesy, you can check out Evan's Channel here: / @themagicshow
Legacy gameplay footage used with permission from @BoshNRoll. Check out his daily eternal Magic offerings here: / @boshnroll
Footage of NorthernLion playing in GP Portland is both real and used with permission from @katelovelymomo. Peep her YT channel here: / @katelovelymomo
This video features the songs, 'Title', 'Ambience', 'The Void' and 'Breaking Through' from the game 'Orb of Creation', used with permission. Thanks Marple for being awesome.
You can check out Orb of Creation here: store.steampow...
Magic coverage footage used is presumably owned by the WOTC and the PlayMTG channels. Everything was used with the intention of being both transformative and additive while sharing the great stories of competitive Magic. Credit is attributed as best I can.
i was pretty happy with this one 😸
Steve was my boss for a couple years. Really awesome down to earth guy. Crazy smart - unfortunately doesn't play much magic anymore but was super awesome to talk to and hear about some old school MTG stories.
What a guy
the northernlion jumpscare lmao
I couldn't have found a more fitting player for that line IMO
I read this comment and still didn't see it coming
This is like the third one I've seen this week in completely unrelated videos!
Man I swear he's everywhere
I've had flash hulk "explained to me" before but this actually showed how the deck worked, thank you
The intro to this video was SO well written and performed. I was hooked to watch from the beginning, even though I don’t really play or watch MTG anymore.
Thanks for a great video and retrospective PastryTime!
Appreciate it, means a lot to hear that frfr
I realize I didn't touch on this in the video but the fact that Moreno put 4x Chrome Mox in this deck was also a hugely impactful decision that was (from my memory) not super common at the time.
Obviously when your entire deck is just jamming absolute heat in the two drop slot every game accelerating your game plan at the cost of a single non-land, non-artifact card is pretty good.
another cool thing that you didnt mention was that flash is a may so you can actually jam it without a target in hand and they most likely have to counter it so you can resolve any other spell you want afterwards. Especially in game 2 when you didnt have the combo in but still had a flash or two in
@@Zzod0000 Heck, you can even just grow your Quirion Dryad that way.
I can confirm that this is true.
I played exclusively Legacy when I started playing magic in 2006. GP Flash was actually my first Competitive REL event (how's that for an intro to the tournament scene lol!). I knew that format really well and you explained the event excellently. The only thing I may have included was that the suicide black deck that Belfatto and Stark top 8'd with was also a breakout deck of the tournament. It was unexpected because it used to be a dog to Goblins, which before this event was the most popular deck in the format, but Goblins was a fraction of itself because it had a bad Flash matchup.
I also love the subtle skirt over the fact the his finals opponent was Owen Turtenwald, who within a few years was the best player in the world for a many years running until he got lifetime-banned for harassment.
I love that philosophy of his sideboard, transforming from a scary combo deck into an okay tempo deck. If this situation were a fantasy medieval dual it's literally just:
1. Begin casting powerful spell
2. Enemy, who expected your powerful spell, begins casting powerful counterspell
3. Stop casting spell, grab sword
4. Stab stupid enemy for casting powerful spell.
I remember. Fun fact: Legacy GP's were killed off before the others. I sent a "What's up with there being no more legacy GP's" email and actually got a response from the lady in charge at the time(I don't recall her name but vaguely remember it being french I think?) saying there would be no more legacy grand prix's.
That was for me, the start of the end of the game unfortunately.
But this video man, brings back great memories. Thanks!
That would be Helene Bergeot.
@@JoshuaJustice Thank you, that is correct. She replied :)
I love this channel so much. You haven’t made a video recently that wasn’t an absolute banger, good job, and keep up the amazing work!
It’s really fresh to have a channel who’s prime focus is on cool/niche metagames from the past, whether that’s limited or constructed. I think I prefer this kind of content over the commander content from this channel's earlier days.
Glad you mentioned the old Magic Show episodes! Those are a GREAT time capsule for MTG history!
These videos of Magic history always make for an unexpected, exciting part of my day.
Boring
There is an even a slightly better loop than the one you explained: you get Body Snatcher on the first trigger (which you play anyway so you arent locked out by drawing Kiki-Jiki or Karmic Guide, Carrion Feeder is at least a castable card) which allows you to get the Benelovent Bodyguard/Sylvan Safekeeper as well bc Body Snatcher only costs 4. Otherwise you lose to a removal spell ;)
Leyline of the Void was important bc it stops the Hulks death trigger, the poison sliver variant was popular bc it sidestepped all the Graveyardhate except for Leyline, like Tormods Crypt and Extirpate.
Vintage Flash Hulk stayed alive for a while until Flash got restricted like a year later.
Love the videos ;)
Yeah I think Snatcher was only in this build as insurance if you drew a piece in hand or something?
That alt loop is really sick though.
I do know Menedian(?) was on the Disciple kill for this event and I didn't have time to explain the Virulent thing more but yes dodging Leyline was actually important/useful but obviously took up SIGNIFICANTLY more slots than the standardized combo loop.
@@HungryOnPlane yeah the Body Snatcher is primarily insurance but it has this other use that very few people understand. Its 1 time use as you exile it after use. then you do regular karmic guide combo.
Disciple kill didnt use Carrion Feeder btw but Shifting Wall & Phyrexian Marauder bc they die before as a State-based action. but that kill is inefficient with deck slots and also doesnt dodge Leyline bc Hulk doesnt get a trigger (and neither does Disciple)
Another fun fact: If I have Planar Void in play I can Karmic Guide combo but my opponent cant. bc ANAP. sadly became irrelevant with the Body Double/Reveillark/Mogg Fanatic combo that could kill at instant speed.
(did I mention I spend wayyy too much time figuring all that out as a teenager? But at least I won a price for best unpowered finish at a regional Vintage tournament.)
This was another great video! I really appreciate how you always give us context to the meta at the time. This enables those of us who started playing literally the next year *coughs: Me* to understand why this was broken at the time.
An explaination of what a GP is being necessary hurts my soul. I miss them so very dearly.
Me too. Even at those GPs where I got utterly wrecked early on day 1, I could just drop and play other events for the rest of the weekend. I remember one limited GP I played where I went 4-1 on a last chance qualifier (for byes), 0-5-drop in the main event, and then 5-0 and 5-0 in side events. Really fun weekend overall hanging with other nerds who loved the game as much as I did.
All Hail the Commander Master race.
Really cool vid. It's fascinating to hear about these different combos, strategies and formats. Thanks for spending a bit more time explaining how the various cards work so I could understand more of what was happening.
I actually played flash hulk in this tournament although it was the disciple of the vault version. The karmic guide version actually got misplayed a lot. And people realized that you had to make them go through it. It also could be interacted with to interrupt it and I had a few people have a removal spell up thinking they could intact and quickly had a frown. I ran into more fish decks than the mono black version.
I actually was one of the judges at this Grand Prix! Hey stranger!
I realized I’ve apparently stumbled up and watched a few of your most recent magic history videos and been a huge fan. Loving this style of content!!
I did something similar when my buddies needed a ride to a pokemon tournament lol. My opponents were so mad I was reading their basic cards to see what they did because I genuinely had to guess my way through the matches. My buddy gave me a standard deck that played like my older one i had in 2018. Got right to the finals and only lost because I didn't know a benched pokemon had weakness and I could have killed them.
That's the complain i have with modern pokemon. Back in my days in extended the game was soo interesting. Now the game is reduced to: 1 play big shit 2 charge big shit 3 attack other big shit.
@@bartolomeotucci4653there is still a lock deck variation every once in a while- see snorlax lock or poke doll stall.
Love the stock footage, your editing is so fun! 😅 Great story, as usual!
People knew for weeks leading up to event. The article announcing that errata was leaving was printed far enough in advance, and simply had a "this is the effective date for the errata leaving".
Also, I seem to recall a large percentage of the field that tried to play "Anti Flash" were on RUG Threshold decks similar to Paul Nicolo's 8th place deck, but they didn't convert as well to Day 2 and Top 8 without lock pieces like Leyline.
A lot of people think Steve/ Billy's Flash Hulk deck was the most busted Legacy deck ever, it's actually the Flash Hulk decks the week after the GP (with Future Sight being released) and before the B/R announcement that Banned Flash. Adding Pact of Negation and Summoner's Pact (adding Elvish Spirit Guides to the list) made it a pretty consistent T1 kill with FoW/PoN backup...
@@davidelrod7865 You know, I had completely forgotten that was a thing. The sheer number of Pacts getting cast with no intention of ever being able to pay their cost was crazy (and completely logical for the format). It had a really funny flow on effect too, because suddenly people were playing Pacts in decks that had absolutely no business running them.
Correct. I was all set to go to this event playing UG Madness w/ 4 Stifle main leading up to it. I had top8'ed nearly every midwest Legacy event for the previous year playing it. Between Tarmogoyf being printed and the Flash announcement, I scrapped my plans and didn't go. Those 2 changes to the format made UG Madness a completely unplayable deck.
Can't get enough of these tournament and metagame stories. Love your presentation!
I just remember playing Flash Hulk in vintage, was stubborn for a long time and went with the slivers (nobody played creatures in vintage) but right at the end I had the Karmic combo. Also remember that Body Snatcher and Mogg Fanatic was a part of the deck, so you could win on upkeep of you had to Pact. It’s the most broken deck I ever played.
1:44 northernlion jumpscare
Bro I was NOT ready
Thank you for the Christmas gift! Great videos as always! Happy Holidays!
Ok, so you can’t just tease us like that with the sneaky Skyshroud Poacher mention.
You know what that's very fair. So here's the full deck tech Evan Erwin posted 17 years ago!
th-cam.com/video/zRsqtMK7wmQ/w-d-xo.html
@ straight from 2007! What an absolutely amazing resource that channel is, and that deck is a work of art. A cross between The Rock and Stompy? Poacher for Hermit is indisputably inspired.
What a tour de force of a video. Well done.
man this story is up there with 'i won an entire tournament on shrooms' as one of those stories you just HAD to be there to see.
Umm, excuse me that sounds like a wild event?
I absolutely love these mtg history videos!
Amazing video! I have no idea how you find these stories or if they're coming back from memory, but I am enjoying them so much either way! I was just thinking a few days ago that I hope you put out a video soon. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
It's honestly a combination of all of those things right now. A lot of personal memories that turns into research that eventually turns into a video.
I'm excited to explore events and stories I don't know as well (yet) too though!
Putting Paul Cheon in the same group at PVDR is insane 😂
Always great videos! Thank you!
Was not ready for the NL jumpscare in a mtg video
Dread it, run from it. Egg arrives all the same.
These videos are so cool and interesting to watch.
Feel like the pacing and narration improved a lot from your previous videos keep up the good stuff man!
This is the best content I've come across on this notorious tournament. Great job! Also, how the heck did Goblins make it to the finals in such a brutal meta???
Goblins find a way
Great video & story - keep giving us more your channel is going to blow up!
Hell yeah, I love seeing all the events that lead to major format warping bans. This and hogaak have been my favorites
You're right about the naming -- the keyword Flash was first printed in Time Spiral in 2006, 10 years after the original Flash card.
Super engaging video, I always enjoy your mini-documentary videos, I think my only criticism is that you repeat yourself a bit too much at times. Looking forward to future videos 👍
I think a video on the infamous bonfire of the damned flip at the 1st World Magic Cup would be a fun one to cover.
This was a great reminder about this event that I only got to know from the mtg media buzz it received back then.
Much respect to Evan Erwin/The Magic Show. He was an early pioneer in MTG youtube content.
you forgot to mention that Karmic Guide was also erataed to work when not cast from your hand. Before the change Karmic Guide's trigger only worked if it was cast from your hand.
Shout out Evan Erwin for recording such a huge piece of magic history.
But actually this x1000. Incredibly invaluable all this time later.
I wasn't an amateur though, I had pro points!
So what if I was playing Belcher at that Grand Prix?
Okay member you had a point :D
wonderful video, great recap, well done!
These history videos are so cool!
Counterbalance + Top is a key component of my heavy control decks, it's brutal in any format.
I absolutely love the orb of creation music.
Me too
Between GPs not being a thing anymore and them changing how damage distribution works to be similar to how it was way back in the day I feel super old now
Amazing piece of Magic history.
I can understand why you wouldn't want to say the Goblin player is Owen Turtenwald by name.
I have no idea how you can tell this story without, at minimum, actually saying the Goblin player is any of a Hall of Famer, 2x Player of the Year, 5 PT Top 8, and 5 GP wins. It takes a lot away from what Sadin accomplished.
Owen did some henious shit, but even WotC hasn't removed his accomplishment from the record books.
I'd say that both:
a) Said heinous stuff was enough of a reason to leave him out.
b) At THIS time in particular it IS impressive because he's a well-known Legacy specialist doing very well at this wild Legacy event but that alone didn't feel compelling enough to include him based on the first point.
Always a judgement/creative call with stuff like this but for this video at least it didn't feel worth the trade off.
My best friend and MTG buddies were going to go to this tournament. Then flash happened and we all could only find three of them between the four of us. Even some of the worse builds we just found oppressive and we decided to sit this one out.
Man I miss top and i didnt even play it that often. It felt like a pillar of the format to me.
Who is the guy at 1:44? I used to play against him in my area. Why is he called out as being an amateur?
Genuinely have no idea, he was an unnamed player in Evan Erwin's original coverage so I just took the visual because it seemed representative enough of what I was trying to get across in that one line.
@ gotcha, lol. He won States in KY in like ‘03 or ‘04 and used to write for StarCity or Brainburst. I just thought it was crazy he was out here catching strays in 2024, lol.
this is the 2nd time ive learned about a tournament being won by what is effectively a topdeck control, is this the secret greatest meta?
Wait did they print "Leyline of the void" as a direct counter to this deck archetype?
Thanks for the video! Could you leave the cards up a little longer though? As soon as I start to read them they're gone!
Noted!
I knew the core cards were coming up a number of times throughout the vid so I figured people would have times to read them throughout but that's a fair point for sure.
Grands Prix (especially in 2014-15 when there was one almost every weekend, and often multiple) and the Pro Tour should be the gold, silver, and platinum standard for _every_ TCG's organized play circuit.
Big agree
Yeah for some reason I thought the flash hulk combo line was kiki target karmic guide, sack karmic guide in response to kiki targeting guide too. Haven't played magic for quite a few years though so I forgot the ability could be countered for lack of a legal target on resolution. Body snatcher was there just in case you drew guide and/or kiki so it was the best insurance, even better than running 2 copies of guide and kiki since you could draw both copies of one hypothetically and they're straight bricks. Amusingly both being 5 cost could matter for countertop to stop a force of will from the opponent.
I was shocked when I learned about gp flash though and most legacy players wrote to WotC begging them to ban flash after they removed the powerlevel errata on it since it is a truly stupid card. 1U, win the game not very balanced. They couldn't even run the future sight pact cards in the tournament to have more free countermagic to back up the combo and zero mana protean hulk tutors that could also be fetched with mystical tutor. Glad they got rid of powerlevel errata since it was dumb to do with stuff like time vault going through so many iterations before they just said eff it, skip a turn to untap it and you can untap it with voltaic key or anything else that untaps artifacts. Flash with powerlevel errata was unplayable trash since you got no enter the battlefield or die triggers/another card in the bulk bin to be forgotten if the errata wasn't removed.
PT Flash was insane, I think you said his name, but the guy that top 8ed, running mono-black hate with Leylines said in an interview "don't ever build or play my list, I won't." Because it was designed only to beat Flash. Smart guy.
Wait that's amazing lol.
To be fair this meta game basically ceased to exist 11 days later so it makes sense that the lists would get more than a little skewed.
@HungryOnPlane yeah, I've always been a storm player, and went to my local tournament and got fucking steam-rolled probably 7 days prior to this event. Flash was that broken, but he figured out a way. Job well done. I applaud the awareness to make something silly that dominated the most dominant deck that Legacy has probably ever seen.
7:47 started to sound like LRR skit 249 for a moment, lol
Dang. My biggest take away from this video is that Paul Cheon used to be fluffy and Paulo used to be super skinny lol.
What's the BGM at @11:00?
Had no idea he was still doing that
I loved the mirage block
Wild event, but sad it was Legacy's only GP - and just a snapshot of a single issue in an otherwise interesting and diverse formats at the time.
I remember this and was an avid legacy player at the time. What a stupid month.
friendly reminder for everone that counterbalance top was alo standard legeal for a while
Great Video🔥
That footage from 4.29 to 4.32... where is that from???
Oh boy that one is a throwback.
That would be US Nationals Zvi vs Humphries from some year in the 90s.
I just needed some footage from when Bargain was legal xD
@HungryOnPlane i saw the replenish cards and was mind blown! Thank you, i've not seen that match!
Great video (as always), thank you for preserving this game's history
I played in a beta mox emerald tournament at a local store decades ago and a friend handed me flash hulk with zero experience. Ended up splitting with LSV in the finals.
Sounds about right LOL
Fantastic video
Great video!
Blue got so much love in the early days of Magic. Blue has always been over powered. I'm glad the other colors have finally caught up power wise. I'm just salty and hate blue because they don't let you do anything and WOTC was really bad about making card to directly beat it.
we're magic bros, of course we watch essays about our hobby
I welcome the egg fans with open arms
Wait THAT richard feldman? The Roc programming language guy?
Yo what editing software do u use
Premiere Pro!
Turn one? Flash Hulk could sometimes go off on turn zero with Gemstone Cavern, it was silly.
Yeah this was also pre Future Sight as well (i.e. the Pacts getting released). Thankfully the ban hit before that was ever a problem.
@@HungryOnPlane Was it? For some reason I thought it was out back then, but It's been forever and I could be misremembering. I remember that era as I played Vintage Back then and if I remember right Gush was just unrestricted right around that time as well. Though back then they were making all kinds of changes like Time Vault becoming a powerhouse again.
looking into it, future sight was release in may 4 2007, the grand happen on the 19, and flash was banned in June. So likely people didnt have enough time to figure out how to use them well together in Legacy, even before adding in Flash being change a week prior to the grand. BUT, Vintage didnt restrict Flash till June of 2008. So no doubt it caused all sort of problems there.
Do one on the original Manaless Dredge now!
That's actually not a bad idea......
Another great video. Hasbro should start paying you.
Great video :)
awesome video
i got 47 seconds in tho this video and i was like wait.......is that pastry time?.......naghh surly not. click the channel and holy fuck its pastry time! hahaha
1:45 egg jumpscare
LET'S GOOOOO a new videoooooooo
I remembered my TH-cam password woo
Love these videos btw
Strictly better magic said sub, so i sub
I miss Countertop :( Miracles was so cool
I won my only Legacy local with Countertop so I am also biased and miss it but I think it's better for the format this way LOL
"an aggressive mono black deck"
... with carnophage, wasteland and hymn to tourach?
yeah, that's the naughty "neck" "rope" black deck, alright
NORTHERNLION???
Yeah I couldn't believe it either tbh.
He didn't play at THIS GP sadly but it is actual footage of him at a real Grand Prix lol.
@ man of many talents (awful bazaar builds). Great vid, excited for more
I miss old school MTG
We are nothernlione guys, of course we are in the comments
I welcome you all with open arms and an allergy to ever pivoting my Bazaar build when I start with a Silver Beast of Burden.
Why does 2007 look like the 1990s?
5:10 Its 7 mana, not 8 mana chunker.
I wish I could say I did it for engagement but I did not...
Necro impitance is ridiculously stronger 1 life put 2 instead of 1
It's supposed to be "Hulk Flash". The joke being a play on words for "Hulk Smash". I never understood why this bifurcation of the name between regions happened in the first place, the joke isn't easy to miss or anything.
The naming convention happened because when playing you say "Flash, Hulk". People go with that rather than the joke name.
No mention of ORAT?
pro yapper yapping about magic, algorithm comment 🎉
and then some random no name kid by the name of owen turtenwald almost won the whole damn thing with goblins
you might want to credit Cardmarket for the footage
great vid tho
I did! I credit everyone with a text 'lower third' but I can add them to the credits too if that's more what you're saying.