Tipo Alleggerito Beretta: Because Italian Gun Laws are Wacky
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2021
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Today we are looking at two examples of prewar/wartime Beretta compact pistols. The first is a Tipo Alleggerito Model 34 in .380. This was developed because of a quirk in Italian law which prohibited the civilian sale of military small arms. Beretta had been selling the Model 1934 commercially for a few years before it was adopted by the Italian military, and that adoption turned it into a de facto military weapon, thus prohibiting further commercial sale. Beretta complained to the government, and cited two rather odd arguments for why they should be able to continue selling them. First, the claimed that .380 was a large caliber and thus more suited to close range than long range and thus more of a civilian weapon than a military one. Second, that it was recognized that pistols under 600g (about 21 ounces) were widely acknowledged to be civilian. Following this second argument, they made a small number of lightweight model ("Tipo Alleggerito") Model 1934s with enough material removed from the barrels to weigh in just under 600g.
The Italian government rejected both arguments, however, and the guns never went into real production.
The second pistol is an aluminum alloy framed version of a Model 1935 in .32ACP. This model was not used by the Italian military, so it was fair game to sell to the civilian market. Beretta made a small number of guns in 1940 and earlier using aluminum frames for a lighter gun, and this is one of them. They did try this on the .380 caliber Model 1934, but found the recoil to be a bit too heavy for long-term durability of the barrel seat. After World War Two, this sort of aluminum frame became common on the compact Beretta pistols sold commercially, but the design was developed before the war.
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As a former resident of Bedford, Italy's most Northern city, I can reveal that Italian bureaucracy is constantly reshaped by the ingenious ways in which Italians seek to circumnavigate that bureaucracy. It is a constantly interactive process.
What city are you referring to? Maybe Brunico/Bruneck?
This piqued my interest because I had an Italian Uncle by marriage retire to Bedford after living in Scotland for most of his life. So I googled it. Bedford has a large Italian community, including a Vice-Consulate, apparently a result of the immigration of south Italian brickworkers in the 1950s. I guess Uncle Bert retired to live in UK's "Little Italy"!
Keep it up tyranny will never stop trying to gain power.
@@petercain8265 Well, then it's a true statement XD
@@petercain8265 Attempts to withdraw the Vice-Consulate by the Italian government provoked vigorous protests!
Ian's Kickstarter keeps rolling like that he's gonna have a rare handgun fireplace of his own.
If that isn't actually his fireplace.
I bought the book cause, well screw it. I have been watching Ian for about 2 years and never paid a dime. May as well support gun Jesus. Especially because he doesn't beg for subscribers or hock merchandise.
@@Miller_Time I got the 1st two but this was the first during the kickstarter. This one is way more interesting to me than French rifles or British bullpups.
You make it sound like it is some kind of magical item that just summons rare hand guns.
@@IMarcaI if it was, then it truly is worth every penny.
Italian here. Excellent example of the bizarre and counterintuitive attitudes of Italian bureaucracy, though I’d argue that one never witnesses “Italian bureaucracy in action”: rather, one sees the effects of Italian bureaucracy contrasting the (attempts) of motion of anything it comes into contact with. It’s truly an exercise in frustration.
James is not an Italian name. Nice try bro
@AborteD is not a human name, nice try bro.
‘James’ is not an Italian name and ‘Junghanns’ is not an Italian surname. If I were trying to impersonate an Italian fraudulently I’d be doing a pretty poor job of it. And yet here I am, full citizen since birth and carrying a passport. So… nice try bro.
@@qubex vabbè dai, per farlo stare zitto definitamente dovevi mandarlo a fanculo e mettere un po' di mammamia mafia pizzeria qua e là così lo convincevi
"The argument was completely shot down by the Italian government"
I see what you did there! ;)
"Italian gun laws are wacky" smiles in pistol brace.
-smiles thinking about the letter sent to the ATF about using a Fleshlight as a brace-
Italian gun laws are wacky but we don't need pistol braces to own a 10.5" AR
Smiles thinking of this: th-cam.com/video/UqRC6JyfB1U/w-d-xo.html
@@davide.truzzi now that is just beautiful
Laughs in 200 maximum ownable ammunitions in pistol caliber. And if one's a lucky owner of a CCW pemit (19 thousand people) he can buy max 50 ammo per year for his own carry pistol.
"Fatta la Legge, gia' trovato l'inganno"
"Made the Law, already found the Loop-hole".
Common saying in 1970s Italy, in all parts of the Bureaucracy.
BTW, nowadays, the only Calibri di Guerra are 9x19 Parabellum, and .50 BMG. All the old Military, are now free to own and shoot. But there are a host of other ridiculous limitations and prohibitions.
DocAV.
I believe ive seen you around the internet when researching my italian guns
Technically 5,56x45 and 7,62x51 too, but we can have .223 and .308 so the limitation on those caliber is basically non-existent
Technically 50 BMG isn't strictly illegal. No gun with it has ever been approved at the Banco, tho.
We have the same saying here in Buenos Aires, in spanish "Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa".
Yep like the limitation of owning maximum 2kg of powder counting all powder inside the cartridges. Viva Italia.
If it's an obscure hard to find firearm, Fireplace Guy has at least two. Thank you for letting us view your collection.
Only one remaining example of a firearm left? Fireplace Guy has two.
It's interesting to see the different manners in which governments try to justify the regulation of handguns. Here in Canada, lawmakers were obsessed with concealment, whereas it appears they had the opposite concern in Italy.
Italian gun laws are very lax for European standards: you can buy almost any modern gun, even semi-automatic rifles if you have a sporting license. However, civilian carry is pretty much non-existent.
The biggest problem in Italy is that civilians can’t own 9x19mm. Hence the unnecessary 9x21mm...
Meanwhile, with specific licenses you can own full auto guns in Finland, Austria, Malta and if you were lucky or old enough you can own them in Italy too.
What is the regulation of 9mm auto?
@@cardiffpicker1 "miltary calibers" are prohibited by law in Italy since 1931. We can own 7.62 and 5.56 guns thank to civilian counterparts as the .308 and the .223, but for the 9x19 we still have some troubles. It's not a matter of pressures, as far as I know it's a way to avoid criminals from stealing guns by narracks and use them with commercial ammo. But that's just one of the many stories.
We can legally own 9x19 and shoot it through carabines; we cannot own (or produce for the civilian market) pistols in 9x19, that's why we use 9x21, that has the same pressures and OAL, just 2 more mm of the case. All milsurp barrels in 9x19 are milled 2mm in so to accomodate the new, legal cartridge.
@@venceslaobriata9466 as far as I am aware 9mm auto isn't a military cartridge
@@cardiffpicker1 what do you mean as 9mm auto?
About those countries that ban military calibers; in mid-twentieth century Mexico (when they could own guns) Colt sold many thousands of .38 Supers to the Mexican market. So, arguably, Mexican civilians had more potent handguns than the .45 ACP and 9mm that the Mexican military were using.
Whoever thought of that "leading european experts" bit about weight and pistols being 'military' was a genius bullshitter
Not genius enough to make it pass, but agreed. =)
Though fwiw I don't think "leading European experts" necessarily carries that much weight in Europe, we know what kind of idiots we are...
-Duude i'm so hangover..
-Darn it, Robert, we have that guns thing today, it's important..!
-OOff.. just... just sort them by weight alright? bring me a coffee. AND an aspirin! AND a scotch. Double.
Just make a bb gun with a heavy ass barrel and see if they have a fit over it.
Fireplace Guy comes through with the goods again.
Fireplace guy has a fucking great pistol collection, I dunno about you but I'm very envious!
I'm Italian... And yes burocracy here is a pain in the ass and mostly extremely stupid...
Charming to see the design roots of the model 92 in these.
Look at the 1951 beretta if you get a chance!
@@thomasthomas6533 Yes they slowly iterate and refine through time, but still keep the lines.
Amazing how something that most people would pass off as an oddity could how such an amazing background story. This is why I love this channel.
I had accidentally muted the video for the first 10 seconds. But I knew what was being said anyway
No its not quiete the most italian thing I ever heard. To see these, watch the "Don Camillo" movies from the 1950s. Like when the communist mayor and the catholic priest Don Camillo make a race of who's tower clock is ringing first - the one on the church tower, or the one on the "casa del populo", the "people's house". That's as italian as it gets. :)
italian comedy was pretty good back in the day haha!
Ah, nice memories coming back from my childhood .... thank You very much for this.
... and they both had their own little arsenal of rifles, mg's and mortars hidden under the cows fudder, just in case.....
Peppone side had a tank too, an M24....
Terence Hill as an italian preist!! Don Camilo!!! Lol!! Priceless!!!
@@luisantolafrancis519 that would be Don Matteo. Don Camillo was french actor Fernandel
@@georgesmith5708 yes, "surplus" from WW2... :)
Please thank fireplace guy for not hiding his hoard like so many collectors do. It astounds me how many collectors view it as their duty to gatekeep and bogart their collections because it "raises the value", while ignoring the legitimate historical interest in letting people see these pieces as they exist.
My Beretta 948 in 22 lr is one of those post war pistols that have aluminun frame too, exact copy of the 1934 and on pistols.. those came in two models the standard and a long barrel version with a cutaway in the front ring of the slide to remove the barrel that incorporates the front sight too.
If you find one grab it you wont regret it.. Most fun 22lr pistol ever.. .
As a rare Italian handgun forger, I am eternally grateful to Gun Jesus for his tutorials... 😂
You know Ian, here in italy we soffer sort of the same problem even nowdays, in fact we use 9x21 instead of 9 parabellum in our civilian pistol, due to the fact that it is considered a war/law enforcement caliber
Non più 👍
@@giorgiosorrentino5106 .....FINALMENTE=AT LAST!!!...the Cal.9÷19 has become a common caliber!!!...the horrible damaged: ex-beautiful/rare pistols WW2 period: Stupidly RUINED, are already in circulation!!!....
"... and, we're back at Casa Del Pistole. Behold, the Fireplace of Esoteric Handguns, where our intrepid hero, Gun Jesus McCollum, examines for our edutainment the latest addition to the collection of the Great Bangstick Santa himself..." Ian, please never change, and stay friends with whoever it is that owns all these things...👍🇦🇺
it should be "Casa Delle Pistole. "Del" is singular masculine, Della is singular feminine and Delle is plural feminine, as "Pistole" is. ;)
@@howtopronouncegewehr I did one year of Italian, in about 8th grade, so I concede my grammar leaves a great deal to be desired...🙏😂🇦🇺👍
Oak Mantle-piece has one hell of a collection.
@@tassiehandyman3090 Did you use those 'Avanti!' Italian tapes in class? haahah. Good times. I was lucky; in North Melb, Vic, every second dude was an Italian-Australian so we learnt all the finest swearwords
The Beretta 1935 is such a sexy and iconic pistol, alongside the Walther PP and PPK
"larger caliber not as effective" for a ...380acp
Someone was dipping into the wine.
Ah, the Lamborghini marketing strategy. Leave a bunch of stuff off, label it "Superleggera", sell it for more. :)
Hmm, so it's banned due to a 'cosmetic feature'. Well that wouldn't happen here. 😉
*cries in a brace on my 15.9" barreled AR*
7/10 on the attempt to say "alleggerito"
Si dai, mi sembra onesto 😂
Almeno ci ha provato, su
"Alle(g)grito" è più simpatico 😝
Di solito la sua pronuncia italiana è molto buona.
Purtroppo non era "alla legge"
1:02 I love the colour of that slide.
Something about the beretta signature slide, it's too weird to live too rare to die. I love it
In Italy a couple of months ago I ran across two Lugers for sale in a sporting goods store. I would have never have believed they were that easily available. I should have at least asked the prices......
they usually go from 1000 euro up to 6000 for rare models.
Ga Stone So, about what they go for here. I heard that quite a few years ago with the collapse of the Soviet block many thousands in the armories of Eastern Europe flooded into the US and prices were less than $500. Do you know if that was true, or somebody's pipe dream?
Ian just described a problem that still exists in Italy. If you want something or if you want anything done in any area of society, it's who you know and what recommendation you can get from someone influential. It is a fundamental reason why so many Italians left Italy for the USA, including my parents. But I digress, great review thanks!
@asdrubale bisanzio I don't want to wander too off topic but I know why my parents left Italy and the inability to get ahead and the lack of recommendations are inherently tied to earnings so yes, the financial aspect certainly played a part. It still does today as seen by the brain drain that Italy has been experiencing for decades. The UK, Germany, and the USA simply offer more opportunities to move up based on merit.
Ian: Lightened
Me: Ribbed for her pleasure
YES!!!
Another great video sir. Thank you. I thought I knew a lot about Firearms until I started to watch your Channel. I've learned more in the several years of watching your channel than anything I thought I could even know. Keep it up thank you sir
"A-leh-jeh-ree-toe"
Allegrito
@@edoardozanetti04 Alleggerito
@@Ni999 no bro è allegrito
@@edoardozanetti04 It's good to be cheerful, but the pistol says that it's lightened.
@@Ni999 bro, I'm just joking on how Ian pronounces "alleggerito". I'm Italian, I know that there isn't written "allegrito".
We sometimes forgot that politicians who decide about real life stuff almost always never saw it, use it, have knowledge about it. For example most of politicians that deal with roads and cars don't use car and often all roads they use it from home-office-restaurant-prostitutehome and almost all of them have driver. The same with guns, most of politicians saw guns only on paper as some number...
Very interesting history. Love the deep dives. Thanks Ian 😀
American assault weapon ban had weight limitations on pistols too, Ian made a video on the Olympic Arms AR-15 pistol that was heavily skeletonized.
Dear Ian, I love your channel and being italian myself, this video managed to put both a big smile on my face, and also to make me sad. I know we are messed up, we complain so much about our burocracy that we basically managed to convince the rest of the world about it (we are stubborn as hell and extremely proficient to accomplish those kind of counter-productive and meaningless tasks :D). Anyway I feel just to point out that during this timeframe (that of the production and selling of those pistols) we were kind of under a dictatorial regime that didn't really belived in freedom and neighter was based on some more modern concept such as human rights (ehmm mussolini and fascism, you know). That being sayd I can relate to this sort of messing about with the law, around here we have a way of saying that I can loosely translate it to: "Given a new rule, you find a new loophole". But we manage you know, like anybody else. We are hard working and we can take bad things chin up. We just love to complain, that's all. Keep up the excellent work, love from Italy. (sorry for tha typos, i'm to lazy to double check, you know, italians right?) :D
Cool looking ones too!
Thanks, Ian!
I always love seeing these old spaghetti canons. Laws make things so weird.
Thank you for all you do
I don't care who lives there I only know it as the Bergmann house
The one I have is a military version 1940. Mine has a barrel that's turned plum while the slide is still blued.
The Dan Wesson 'barney' phenomenon?
Oh those silly Italian bureaucrats. In the U.S.A., with our 2nd Amendment, never would a manufacturer need to circumvent a ludicrous law which bans arbitrary characteristics of a firearm by creating a lightweight version like the Carbon-15!
Nice video. Thanks for Your work.
The aluminum frame like this was also used for the model 948 in the 1950's. That pistol is the same size but chambered to shoot 22lr ammo. Very handy pistols.
8:33 A slip of the tongue? "Templar" :D
In Roger Moore's tv series "The Saint" Simon Templar quite often carried a '35, which is how I ended up here.
Thank you , Ian .
Nice plum colouration on the slides. Is that age or original? Only time I've seen this elsewhere is when the blueing chemicals were at the wrong temperature.
I've seen it recently on the new Kalashnikov PLK pistol. That burnt crimson/plum color looks so nice to me. I think it would look great on a p320.
I think it's original and caused by both the bluing salts and the steel itself.
I am literally, holding in my hands, a 1940-XVIII Beretta and watching this. Mine is nickel plated and assumed an Officer's version. Perhaps Ian would like to do Italian Handgun Book next...?
Man, I'd love to get one of those .32s. Such a nice addition to any collection.
The bit toward the end reminds me of the lecture Ian did on proof marking
"Marco, good news! We scored a military contract!"
"Oh, porco Dio!"
Immensely happy to own a P. Beretta Alleggerito since 1986. The best .380 ever made, never jammed, accurate, reliable, lightweight. I had and have all known .380s, none better than her. I will never sell or exchange it, for this reason it is my oldest firearm in my collection.
We are taking a look to the grand grand parents of the Beretta 92fs. That slide is meant to be loved.
Such beautiful pistols.
An interesting factoid is that both guns show Roman numerals on the slide, XVI on the first and XVII on the second which indicate the ‘Year of the Fascist Era’ or ‘Anno dell’era Fascista’ and from that we can deduce a more precise date of manufacture because:
XVI is the 16th year
28 October 1937-27 October 1938 and
XVII is the 17th year
28 October 1938-27 October 1939
Note how and where the ribs on that Tipo Alleggerito are worn. That's just about what I would expect with such a design. On a smooth full diameter barrel it wouldn't matter - here it impacts lightly on each raised rib section that the slide traverses, (looks like it hits as the slide is moving forward).
It looks like a baby 92FS, it's adorable.
Looks like the lovechild of a 92FS and a 1911 at least on the surface level imo
Check the beretta 84, you won't be disappointed.
Once again we see the effect of irrelevant, intrusive government restrictions on perfectly reasonable firearms.
Well we also see the lack of weekly mass shooting.
There's a lot of countries with more restrictive gun control and bigger kills amount per 100tsnd people than the US
@@NumbDiggers1998 Not a good argument as there are many other factors that influence murder rates. No one is saying the only the only factor explaining homicide rates with firearms is gun ownership rates and availability, but its certainly a part of it.
I'm saying that as someone who'd really like their own country to loosen up on some of their annoying firearms related restrictions. Also, not everyone wants firearms regulation just like the US. A lot of us are fine with it being at least somewhat more restrictive than the US.
@@feibdegrassi1646 And that of a bunch of your IQ points
Gotta love the mass shooting bandwagon, when we've seen multiple times evil people use cars, trucks, bombs, chemicals, etc quite effectively instead in other nations...
Better then California guns
Doubt
Poco ma sicuro
That bluing on the slide is gorgeous.
Very cool little pistols
I'd love to know more about the 9x21mm cartridges history.
Pocket sand! Or pocket Berretta! In this case
Never got pocket sand from Ft. Jackson out of my pockets until I DX'd my uniforms.
Now i want a video about italian gun laws with Ian, valdsparastoria and Paul
It would be the greatest video EVER!
Vlad>>>>
I love how the slides have turned a nice reddish plum color from age.
Very interesting. Thanks
Intresting pocket pistol from beretta I never new about. Hope you still continue making more videos on wacky firearms
If the barrel fails, MAYBE the material rings will stop a crack propagation?
My dad drove from UK to South Africa through France - North Africa - East then South Africa. 1947, they used to get supplies free from the army camps in Egypt as they were using ex army trucks so just followed the tail end of convoys. In one the officers invited them into the mess and upon finding they had no arms gave them a captured Luger and one of these Berettas they packed them behind the headlamp housing with paper to stop rattling. ( the fluted barrel) unfortunately my grandmother threw it in the sea in SA as she did not approve :)
I can understand the officer's concern, 1940's Africa was not a particularly safe place for anyone
The absurd-stupidity of a certain kind of women (my mother/RIP, not excluded) it is a international"reality".
Love the plum color
"Italian gun laws are wacky" *chuckles in Roth-Krnka *
I get the feeling the letter proved ineffective at swaying the legislators' opinions because the envelope wasn't lined with any banknotes.
Very interesting video, Ian: great as usual.
BTW, 'alleggerito' is pronounced "Al-leh-jeh-reeto" (I am a bilingual British/Italian).
Ah! Italian burocracy.. it reminds me of the smell of the post office in august, 2 hours in line with 40°C\104°F, i miss it so much!
just kidding, I don't. Weapons laws aside, since i live in uk i had to go to whatever office like... 3 times? i'm able to sort everything with my phone. crazy right? lol
Italian burocracy is indeed a nightmare, but it's like that on purpose, to allow "influent" people to get around it. Common people can't afford a division of lawyers though.
they even named a minister "Minister Of The Simplification" recently. funny guys.
Ian: ...because italian gun laws are wacky.
Me, an italian: ...just the gun laws!?
Awesome video 👍. I have 2 shotguns from Pietro Beretta and the are awesome. It's a great brand.
A lot of Italian laws are wacky.
An Italian asked me once if I knew why Italy is the shape of a boot and I had no answer.
He then told me that it is because you couldn't fit that much shit in a shoe! :)
Old Berettas look fantastic!
how about an episode on the Beretta that was 007's original gun in the books 'Beretta with skeleton grips' - if it really existed.
Slick looking pistol! Just the right proportions, i also really like the ring at the grip and the barrel being weird. I mean it's weird to call weapons beautiful but this one sure is.
"Tipo Alleggerito" is fun to say
But it is not said that way...well, tipo is right but allegerito has a different pronunciation 🤷
@@francescogiovannimura7621 all-edge-er-eto I guess....
@@davecompton5847 pretty much, not sure about that d in edge 🤔
i think those 35's and 36 berretta's are just gorgeous, probably my dream gun aside from a sig amt but amt's arent too hard to find for a good price.
very nice video
Today in Italy the problem is military or non military calibers.
What does the reddish bluing represent? I've been told that it's due to a higher temperature during bluing? I have a Russian gas seal pistol that the cylinder is reddish but the rest of the pistol is blued.
All components with the same number.
Hey Ian, when in comes to wacky gun laws, maybe take a look (if you get a chance) at the Airringer developed by Joerg Sprave to circumvent german gun laws. But it was made redundant after one year when the goverment closed that loophole. Greetings from Germany :)
Hell yeah!!! Wacky as a wackadoodle!
I can attest to that as a proud Italian, sure I cannot own a 92 fs or an M9 but hey an infinite number of semi auto military rifles with no regards to barrel lenght, bayonet lugs, stocks and such kinda makes up for that 😂😂😂
Love my beretta 84, but that aluminum 35 is a sweet looking thing.
Those old Beretta's are beautiful.
At least they can own handguns unlike here in the UK
regardless of your opinion of the M9/92FS, Beretta has always made some of the best looking guns, its neat the open top slide design is so old
they are still wacky. Carbines allowed in 9 luger/para (9x19) but STILL forbidden for pistol.
Thus the 9 mm pistol on sale are 9 mm imi (9x21 mm)....same bullet caliber, same energy but just a tad longer brass
Ooh excellent explanation of how to spot fakes!
That I will never see.
Still super cool and I feel smarter!
So... I have a request... Could you do the Stg-45 Horn prototype? There's almost nothing on the internet about it.
Ever heard of the AKMSU? That would make an interesting episode
Hey Ian, or anyone else:
Given a gun will always fail at the weakest point, assuming that in this hypothetical, the failure is constrained to the barrel, do those "rings" where the barrel hasn't been machined down (in between the go-fast, more speed! Lightening cuts) do they provide any structural integrity against barrel obstruction and over pressurisation.
Would it hold up to that in any appreciable amount compared to having most of the barrel turned down, without the rings being left?
what a nice pair of firearms,
I know it's outside the scope of the channel, but I would love to get Ians (and Carls for that matter) opinion (or diatribe) on the general state of gun laws. I can make an educated guess, but I'm sure both of them will have nuance I cannot predict.