Fritz Mann Model 1921: Chamber-Ring-Delayed Blowback
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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In 1920, Fritz Mann of Germany patented the idea of cutting a shallow ring in the chamber of a pistol as a delaying mechanism. When fired, a cartridge case would expand into this groove, thus requiring more time and energy to push the case out of the chamber and effectively delaying opening. This allowed Mann to reduce the weight of the operating parts of his model 1920 semiauto pistol in .25ACP (aka 6.35mm Browning). The gun was designed to be as small and as light as possible; a true pocket pistol. Thousands of them were made in 1920 and 1921, although he gun failed to see long-term popularity. For more information, I recommend Stefan Klein’s article on Ed Buffaloe’s web site:
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Man for such a small pistol it's quite elegantly designed
You passed up a perfectly good opportunity to spell Man with two N's.
It's definitely elegantly shaped, though the internal mechanism seems lacking. They're clearly trying to minimize space with such a minimal delaying mechanism, but we've learned by now that chamber-rings are not a great delay system. I'd love to see what could be made by applying such old school design principles with modern knowledge. Unfortunately as it stands a lot of these .25 pistols have problems.
It's german after all lol
👍
@@coaxill4059 I'd be curious to see if roller delay would have been practical for a handgun this size.
L.W. Seecamp's pistol is currently in production using a chamber ring delayed blowback in the .32 and .380 (but not .25) models.
Really?
Was about to post that...
Larry Seecamp did have one in his personal collection. It’s offering for sale on GB right now.
Check out the old AMT .22 automags. They were .22 magnums and if you look in the chamber they have little "plenums" or holes drilled in the chamber. Not a ring but the same principle. AMT was very specific on what brand of ammo to use.
Where's the Grendel guy? @@RUBIZEN
Gonna be honest, the pistol looks adorable.
Sometimes tiny pistol aren’t even classified as a firearm lol
Exactly what I thought. I prefer the look of this to a Derringer
Also the Spanish ruby pistol is a bigger colt 25
Yeah its adorable but quite ugly from close
I want one to go with my colt .25
I love how much fun you're having with this. What a neat little guy! positively jam-packed with features for how tiny it is.
Is the "9mm cartridge" gag the first time Ian has consciously done a joke on FW? Made me spit my tea out laughing... EDIT, in line with Ian's thoughts about guns should be kept able to fire so we can understand them better as pieces of engineering, and also in their firearm capacity, this is one weapon I would love to see being used on the range. So many useful features done on a tiny scale - as Ian rates it: PDC.
Of course it isn't
He did a Jurassic Park gag at the end of his Spas-12 video awhile back.
@@Galf506 "I am the way and the light... but sometimes the light is a muzzle flash." -Ian
The 9mm cartridge joke was hilarious.
@Oskar yep, especially in InRangeTV where he and Karl jokes alot
The box of 5.56 will be at rock Island auctions next week, bidding will start at $100.00.
7 millions, 7 rounds.
The Seecamp pistols also use a chamber ring to delay blowback.
Thousand thank for this video about this tiny gun. Withy very basic knowledge of machinery, materials, etc, I can not even imagine how this little gun was made. As it's slide is all interior, and part of the frame😮. And as if this was not enough, it is a miniature!! 😮. Thank you Ian, for bringing the us these wonders, and explain to us all there is to know!!!
The Seacamp also uses an annular chamber ring delay.
So much innovation and technology for such a small package
This reminds me of LifeSizePotato's vid on the Mann. Wish he would come back.
Any of you know if he’s all right?
Othais and Mae need to see this gun. After all the long ass rifles they've done for the Primer series, a tiny gun would be interesting for them to mess with.
the ability to do a press check by simply running the safety is a neat feature
That’s such a well thought out, simple little carry gun
That safety detent/loaded chamber indictor is a very nifty little design
“Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody, and he finds out about it, he may be very angry with you.”
- Col. Jeff Cooper
It is possible to kill someone with .25 ACP, it's just that it's more likely to happen by accident, unless you're a scarily good shot with enough knowledge of anatomy (German officers in WWI and WWII considered small rounds like that perfectly adequate for suicide, and the guns were thin enough not to ruin the lines of a uniform).
>chamber-RING-delayed blowback
Now I know with which ring I would like to ask to marry me
reviewing a pocket pistol in front of a bunch of machine guns.....only Ian can pull this off lol. love seeing the craftsmanship of these old pocket guns. great video!
I want this pistol so bad! Its so cool to se a gun this small that actually functions.
The worlds cutest and most lethal paper weight. I like it.
What a smorgasbord of unusual and unusually clever mechanical solutions. TY for showing this.
Backup gun match footage featuring this coming soon, I hope? :D
If they made this in .32 ACP I could see it. However, in .25 ACP how would we even hear the hits? (I would consider one of these in .32 Auto. For fun if nothing else.)
@@tarmaque I mean you can hear 22lr hits on steel. tbh I don't have any experience with 25 but surely it wouldn't be an issue? It just depends on the microphone quality and possibly other shooting going on in the background
@@Sasha7N I was trying to be funny, considering .25 ACP is generally considered to be about as good as .22LR in most ways. I guess I failed miserably.
@@tarmaque oh whoops 🤣
The The Colt Gold Cup National Match .38 Special Mid-Range used chamber grooves to control blowback.
interesting delaying idea, but you can tell from the parts it was built well with a lot of care.
This workshop sound so cool! I'd love to be an apprentice at Fritz Mann Feinmaschinen- Waffen- und Werkzeugfabrik. And then I'd stay there for the rest of my life, just tinkering with Feinmaschinen und Waffen und Werkzeugen. Sounds like a silicon valley startup but for men.
Czechoslovaks experimented with the similar technique in the late 1940s when looking for a new service pistol. The project chambered in 7,62 Tokarev was known as ČZ 501 and the designer was Jaroslav Holeček a designer of the Sa23,24,25,26 series of SMGs. :)
This little guy is a work of art... I just love it...
I believe the Detonics Pocket 9 also uses this obturation delayed system. That would be another good firearm to take a look at.
Novel design, good size. Unbreakable firing pin, very lefty friendly. Modern metallurgy could probably do the same thing with .32 ACP. Would buy one if they were back on the market because that sorta semi-bullpupish design won't look like a gun if it prints through a pocket.
"Alright!"
When Ian does his Matthew McConaughey impression.
That groov in chamber delay have been done in mauser and luger pistols in finnland. Mainly because of selling surplus suomi kp cartridges which brakes pistols in long run. So you can find grooves in pistols chamber.. Tokarev 9 mm is kind of same system. Case isn't conical like para 9 mm, instead it is straight tube causing delayed blowback.
Outstanding engineering from a time before CAD/CAM.....
FLEXING on everybody with that 223 ammo
100 year old gun, still looks neatly made and clean
I love little 25acp imports, it started with my 2nd pistol ever. It was one you had on here the Auto-Brestia or something like that. I know now that was the Italian town so never new the model name. It shot pretty well
Fritz Mann Model 1921 - the official pistol of "your gun looks bigger in HER hands"
chamber delay blowback feels like reloader’s worst nightmare.
perfect form to scratch ice from a car windshield
That is absolutely the cutest little gunzie wunzie I have ever seen!
maybe its not a serial number ..... it looks like a date of Produktion and the Nr of the Gun that day : 16 Mai 1920 gun Nr. 21 ...
My first thought is that it's a serial number range for the whole factory, the pistols are just mixed in with everything else.
@@DZ-X3 would be nice to have a couple of guns to check either way ...
I didn't even see the gun there until you mentioned it
I think my Seacamp 32 uses a similar system where chamber pressure makes the ammo temporarily lock in the chamber.
There's a website for a different gun model where people can send in their serial number and the date of purchase of the gun... so a serial number database can be made, which allows people to know when their specific gun was made by typing in the serial number. In the case I saw with a specific firearm (it might have been Glocks, but I don't recall)... the serial numbers were very unusual and didn't seem to fit a pattern. People would oftentimes have similar serial numbers, but their guns were made many years or even decades apart... while other people would have identical guns that were made at about the same time, but the serial numbers were very different. Either way though, I think a database like that would be interesting for guns like these... because there's data that could be quantified (like what the highest and lowest serial numbers are and if there are gaps and how large the gaps are).
Any smaller and you could conceal carry under your tongue.
Very cool piece of history
Mann the mann is killing us mann - some actor from wakaliwood
OK, I'm used to the Main Spring pushing the slide forward to chamber the round. I'm not an engineer, so you will have to forgive me. I just don't see how the spring pushes the bolt forward. Is there a hidden wall (or spring catch) in the top of the gun? If I could see a diagram, I'm sure it would help.
There must be a step in the rear end of the spring/guide bore in the frame that lets the guide rod through but not the larger diameter spring. Other end is constrained by the screw head on the guide rod, rear end of the rod is screwed into the cocking piece/bolt, so when that goes back the screw head goes back and compresses the spring.
@@Broken_Yugo Ok. I got now.
OK for example in some cases the certificate number or cereal number were different it doesn't mean the amount of production made it is the production time stamp and thus said who ordered what amount and how to determine who owns what the numbers jumped I've seen this in not just guns but in other antiques from the 20's 30's 40,'s especially in rebadge items sold with other names but the same exact item
Cool pistol.
Nice design features.
When Fritz, Otto and Willi sit together, they usually plan something not so nice and tiny :-)
I think Ian, I'd like a video on the MANN .25 pistol with you shooting it on a range.
Great video, nice little gun. Had .25 autos before, great fun gun especially if you reload.
I've definitely seen one of these before idk where
Otto Mann? Great eighties show! Shout out to Desi junior.
The company was made by Fritz, Otto, and Mann-
_The door bursts open_
_James Puckle enters with crazed eyes in a cold sweat_
*THIS CALLS FOR SQUARE BULLETS*
I love .25 acp pocket pistols. I regularly carry a Beretta 950bs. Not super rare but I would watch a video on one, if made.
Ian, I would love to see you do a video on my favorite pocket pistol -- the Galesi Model 9 / Model 503 in .25 acp. I know they are not necessarily particularly old (the model 9 which became the 503 appears in the 1950s), but their roots go back further and they have been unimportable or manufactured since 1968. They are cool little guns.
"adorable little baby pocket pistol"
Aaaawwwwwwwww, yes its so cute, but it'll bite if u underestimate it
That 9mm casing joke 🤣😂😂😂😂😂
Have to love how Ian compares its size to a bunch of other things that non-Americans don’t have, namely handguns, ammunition, and dollar bills 😅
Most of these miniature pistols look silly.
This one is just beautiful.
It's adorable, clever, and I want one.
You're the 3rd most popular vtuber! :3
that 9mm bullet thing got me laughing harder than I should have, thanks Ian xD
Very cool little gun!
I'd kind of like to see you shoot this. I kind of get the idea that the delaying mechanism didn't work that well, as .25 ACP is closer to .22LR in performance (actually inferior) and likely doesn't generate enough pressure to actually expand the brass. So these are probably, in practice, straight blowback.
Considering other annular ring delay blowback pistols in higher pressure cartridges have a reputation for being less delayed and more blowback that leads to major parts breakage.. it's a simple concept but apparently not simple to execute in practice.
Seecamp also uses the same delay system.
Def don't want to use reloads in this thing unless they are annealed. Could definitely see work-hardened cases cracking in this thing.
Looks like a pistol that Batman from 1989 would use. Pretty cool.
Hi. Pronunciation was quite good and close! Congratulation :)
I would love to see Hickok45 check to see if this thing is "Gong Worthy"!
I don't think anyone complained the Derringer was, "Too big"
I've heard that the Seecamp is also made with a ringed chamber. True or false?
Hey, it goes on
Look at Ian flexing on us with a box of 5.56.
Listen to Ian talking all cutesy to it... awwww...
Got to be a real Mann to handle this gun :D
This is the kind of weird shit I subscribed for. Praise be to gun jebus
Ok that 9mm case gag was good lol
this gun is a handloaders nightmare.
What a cute little gun.
Congratulations on the name of that factory. I would have struggled with that and I was born in Germany, haha!
a box of 5567 quite flexing bro
A real life Noisy Cricket! I actually like it!
1:16 yeah cheers Ian, just spat my cornflakes all over my keyboard. Kids crying :D
Where the grips inspired by the baby browning or was that style of name on grip just that popular in the day
I think the Seecamp uses Ring Delayed Blowback
Didn’t see that little gun in the beginning with all the big caliber in the back. Lol
Okay would REALLY like to have one of those
I just read through a bunch of comments. Why are people so negative? Great vid Ian...thank-you.
Very cool design, is it safe to say that the chamber ring delay doesn't work very well hence the short production run and lack of adoption in other designs
That box of 5.56 is probably worth more than the pistol now.
Also the delaying system seems neat although I feel as if it will only work with low pressure carts and not stuff like 9mm
Someone find one of these for Matt!
Fritz and Otto... I hope they had a brother named Karl or Hans for full 80’s German bad guy Bingo.
Just watched and old advertisement around 1920’s, in Mexico you could buy a Mann pistol and a pocket watch for 20 pesos.
Pretty reasonable design - for 1921. IDK if the chamber-ring-delay is any good, but the rest is IMHO.
Never knew about this.
Maybe they serialized their other products using the same set of numbers?
Nailed the german there Ian