I hope you enjoy this video! Please like & share the video, it took long 8 months to make, and I had to re-upload it as not only was if fake copyright claimed by a company which had no rights to the song used, I also found some editing mistakes which are now fixed! (At the expense of the previous engagement the video had, it was doing so well... 😢) Follow Lorulean Historian on Twitter: twitter.com/tglmudora Follow Instrutilus on Twitter: twitter.com/Instrutilus Also! You can find the HD Timeline of this video here (I even translated it into Japanese!): twitter.com/ZeldaLoreYT/status/1575531126113898498
I was wondering if we could get a full transcript of this theory. The video is great with chapter breaks and everything. I was just thinking, no joke , this would also make a great book, maybe illustrated by the handdrawn game guide guy.
I've never given the Fallen Timeline much grounding as it's based solely on "what if" because you beat Ganon in OOT. The idea with Vatii is much more plausible.
When it comes to "fixing" the "what if" problem regarding the Downfall Timeline i've always held the headcanon that the events of this timeline begin NOT during the final battle against Ganon in Ocarina of Time but rather BEFORE the beggining of the "unified" timeline back in Skyward Sword as an adjacent timeline that is *parallel* to the one where the timesplit happened. Basically speaking the Downfall Timeline is it's own SEPARATE timeline with all of the events from Skyward Sword, The Minish Cap and Four Sword happening normally until the Hero of Time's defeat during his battle with Ganon. By making the Downfall become a *parallel* timeline to the timesplit one we can logically justify it's existence as a sort of "twin" to the the timeline which splitted into the Adult and Child Timelines and so avoid the while idea of a "what if" scenario like in the case of Age of Calamity. Of course when it comes to the question of "how could the Downfall Timeline be referenced in Breath of the Wild?" we can take Aonuma's words to heart by simply arguing that timegap between Zelda 2 and the Era of the Wild is so far appart that the people of Hyrule would inevitably forget about it along with the other 2 timelines.
I used to think the fallen timeline was stupid and didn’t make sense… then one day I realized how it can actually make sense. Child timeline happens because Zelda sends link back in time to relive his childhood. In that timeline Link snitches on Ganondorf. Adult timeline happens cause the timeline Adult Zelda sent Link away from is from a land where Ganondorf reigned for 7 years straight before he was defeated by Adult Link. Then…. Every single time you put the master sword in the temple of time to return to being kid link in the game what if time goes on. The time Link has left is one where Ganondorf took over for 7 years straight and the worst thing Link has done to oppose him was complete every dungeon with the exception of the final dungeon, so Ganondorf just rebuilds and takes over again in a timeline where he’s not defeated and the hero of time isn’t there to stop him.
Plus wouldn't a fallen timeline effect the future and past, don't save the future, can't be sent back to save the other split in the timeline, therefore it would be split four ways. If so this would creat 2 separate pairs of parallel what ifs that would each cause even more of a mess to explain and connect the timeline. That being said, enjoy the lore and believe the order you imagine, I ignore certain games all together as apart of the timeline. I still love these games all in their own ways, can't say I really "hate" any of the games, (other than the cdi games if you are savage enough to to call them zelda games).
Actually fantastic. this timeline presentation is WAY more satisfying than the "official" one. While I'm a firm believer that it's okay for each Zelda game to change, alter, or disregard the timelines at their own discretion to avoid stifling creativity or being too hung up on details, I'm also the meticulous type that likes it when things click together cleanly. This caters to my inner desire for the timeline to flow smoothly very nicely.
As a diehard Minish Cap fan, I love the idea that it could be the lynchpin in unifying a single, branching continuity. The game so frequently gets overlooked that it's nice to see *any* acknowledgement, much less considering it a catalyst for the rest of the franchise. All in all, I appreciate how thoroughly you presented your case for this interpretation! While I acknowledge (as Jack Six's earlier comment points out) that this secondary split doesn't need to be associated with anything we see on-screen, your perspective feels more cohesive than the official timeline.
To give you some fuel for The Minish Cap's importance: it looks like it's the reason the Triforce War/Fierce War kicked off. Vaati sends some guards around Hyrule to look for the Force, and they began to talk: "フォースは なんでも のぞみが かなうといわれる 宝物！ ハイラル王は きっと 平和のために 役立てようと なさって おられるのです" "The ""Force"" is a treasure said to grant any wishes! I'm sure that the King is trying to use it for peace!" Now, the Force does not grant wishes: Vaati has a cap for that and it's confirmed by him that he wants the power the Force provides to combine with his cap: "かぶった人のねがいを かなえる このぼうしは すばらしい！ おかげで わたしは この世界で たった一人のそんざい・・・ 何者にも まけない 魔人となれたのです 残すは フォースの力を 手に入れるのみ！ これも 全部 アナタのおかげです ワタシからの プレゼントを うけとってください" "This cap grants the wishes of the user, it's wonderful! I will become unique! An invicible sorcerer Must find the power of the ""Force""! It's all thanks to you! Here's a present from me!" But a wish granting force? That sounds familiar. Vaati, the first villain Hyrule faced, doomed the Kingdom to an eternal war by complete accident...
Vaati has been my custom mouse cursor for several years. I want to share my deep appreciation for whoever made those custom animated cursors on that one website I forgot long ago…
I think Vaati being the cause of a timeline split makes sense due to him being the final boss with the second most appearances across the games, so with a staying power as strong as that is sure to cause something impactful.
@@plpfangyrl here's a terrible idea. Majoras mask was made by the demon tribe. DEMISES tribe. He mentions he is part of a tribe of demons. Maybe those demons are the sorcerers from majoras mask. Maybe demise used the mask to make his army of monsters and invaded hyrule with his tribe of magic demons and was defeated and sealed. Demise was sealed individually being the demon KING. His tribe, however, was judged as simply following their kings designs and were therefore sealed instead of executed. The events of skyward sword happen and he's re-sealed. Fast forward and Minish Cap happens and link gets the good end. OoT happens and link goes back and warns zelda. He then goes and falls through a tree and through a HOLE IN THE GROUND (the Fissure the demon tribe came up from) and finds himself in another world. After the mask Salesman takes the mask link comes back and TwP happens where failed execution Ganon is sealed in the twilight realm because no one by that time KNEW he was a reincarnation of DEMISE. Edit: to add onto this, I think Girahim and Vattii look alike for a reason. Either the spirit of Girahim wants to: A. Get godly power to revive Demise and surrender the power to him B. Wants godly power to destroy the world and get revenge on the goddesses for sealing him and his mater. C. Wants to free the Twili and conquer hyrule/the world.
looks like my next timeline run will have to follow this. It makes so much more sense. also madd props in noticing the potential split in Minish. Such a great and underrated game. I'm glad to see it may actually hold a major part in Hyrule history.
The revisions done to the "downfall timeline" and the placement of Breath of the Wild are adept and make a more cohesive canon. However, I still like the idea of OOT being the catalyst for the 3 way split-- think of the final battle with Ganon. All three triforce parts are actively commanding the power of the Gods, and all three wishes are granted simultaneously. Link's wish to smite the evil, Zelda's wish that they were able to prevent Ganon's rise, and Ganon's wish to dominate the kingdom. From there, each reality can still be considered canon. FS and FSA can still take place next in the "downfall timeline" but it's also in those timeline's games that Ganon is henceforth always manifested as the beast version. To me, this makes for a much more epic story.
@@TimeCircleBlue thr three Goddesses trying to figure out ehoch wish the triforce would grant, they can't, so they just go "fuck it" and grant all three at once
I actually like that idea especially as the triforce "resonates" when the three are assembled in Ganondorf's sick organ room. I think the only time we see it resonating is when a wish is being granted?
I'm pleasantly surprised. Many people try to put games before Skyward Sword with little to no explanation, so I've become wary of "timeline fixes" in general, but this video was VERY well made!
Yeah I have seen that when people try to put games before skyward sword makes me die laughing on the ground 🤣iam like really REALLY?!A ULTIMATE PREQUEL with a goddess 😇 and primary evil 😈 yeah sorry fans no other game can be placed before that That’s like putting a story before the creation and the year of trees in middle earth story That’s like trying to put a well grounded story before the book of genesis sorry it doesn’t work like that lol 😂 Skyward sword is the ultimate beginning wither they like it or not
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003 To be fair, Skyward Sword's surface world is already clearly a post-apocalyptic wasteland. There WERE a lot of things that happened before the game starts. Just none of them resemble anything that happens in the other games.
@@kendrajade6688 in SS Link goes back in time to the time of the apocalypse, immediately after the titanic battle between Hylia and Demise. That’s what happened. Between that era and and the ‘present’ of SS there’s no room for any other games, and Hylia’s war with Demise is the first significant even after the creation and the goddesses leaving Hylia in charge.
@@russellharrell2747 You clearly forgot about the chosen hero of Hylia whom she gave the original sailcloth to that Zelda tells Link about when she presents the one she gives to him in the events of the game. SS Link never met Hylia and nowhere does it say that the battle against Demise was fought by Hylia. We knew she sustained mortal injuries: "After a long and fierce battle, the goddess, Hylia, succeeded in sealing away Demise. However, soon after the demon king was imprisoned, it became clear that the seal would not hold long against his fearsome power. Hylia had suffered grave injuries in her battle with the demon king. She knew that if he broke free again, there would be no stopping him". The battle must have been between her chosen hero (most likely an earlier Link) and Demise with Hylia there to seal Demise (much like Zelda) and likely got caught in the ferocity of the fight. We knew she already sent islands of the surface into the sky which likely drained her a good deal and would no way be able to fight Demise one on one. Plus if she were to do that, there would be no purpose to have mentioned her chosen hero who she gave the original sailcloth to. It's obvious Nintendo gave themselves room to create a prequel to Skyward Sword covering the events of the backstory if they ever decided to explore that, which I think is only a matter of time. Also, the way Skyward Sword ends creates a time paradox and if anything should create a split in the timeline/universe. Why? Because Link in that game destroys the very reason for his Skyward Sword adventure. He kills Demise not only in the present in the form of the Imprisoned by dropping Sky Keep on him but he also kills Demise's past self in the era not long after he was sealed & Hylia died. It would create a new history where in the 1000s of years before Link was born & in the years where he grew up, there was no Demise for the Ghirahim of the past (who would've still been left alive but with no master to break from a seal at the Sealed Grounds when the new version of the modern day events of Skyward Sword, i.e. when Link & Zelda are adults, happen). The entire creation of the Master Sword as it happened in Skyward Sword would never have taken place in the new parallel reality that was created (or should certainly be explained to have been created). Such a reality not existing is a complete contradiction & hypocrisy on the part of Nintendo when you consider how they handled the Child Timeline where the same Ganondorf from the OoT era was stopped and prevented from gaining the Triforce and instead sentenced to death, leading to a very different reality than what took place in the Adult Timeline. There has to be some consistency instead of cherrypicking when a split in the timeline happens & when it doesn't. If anything, the events of Skyward Sword should really take place in a self contained time loop that repeats after the course of events starting from the beginning of the game when Link wakes up in his bed at the academy getting ready to be in the competition through everything he goes through up to the point where he time travels to kill Demise in the past and changes history. This would cause a Demise-less world 1000s of years back in the past and would kill Link's SS quest thus causing him not to go one such a quest which would result in the return of Demise as the events play out where it would again loop back to Demise being alive and sealed and Link going on his quest to only have the same cycle of a world with Demise and a world void of Demise loop endlessly. The entire loop would take 1000s of years to cycle but a bootstrap paradox like the one created in the game should result in this very scenario. Or at the very least a split in the universe with 2 branches---a reality where the events after killing Demise continue onward and a reality where Demise never existed in the present day in any form (at the Sealed Grounds) where the Master Sword would be created due to events that happen later on for other reasons. Since the Master Sword's origin was originally in A Link to the Past said to be created by the people of Hyrule for a hero and not by a hero himself (or a goddess indirectly), such a split would allow them to properly do a Master Sword origin that complies with the original origin and could keep the post-Skyward Sword world to explore new ideas, like a reality where Demise returns as Demise and there is no Ganondorf.
This deserves way more views, very well-researched, edited, and evidenced. This might be my new headcanon honestly. Can’t wait to see what Tears of the Kingdom will add!
Probably wouldn't drastically change the timeline since it's a direct sequel. Definitely will explain how Ganondorf got sealed but probably not how long he has been sealed. Could have been over 20,000 years but definitely longer than 10,000. No wonder he's pissed.
Seriously!! this felt flawless! The rules you created make so much sense and hold so cohesively. On top of that, you explained ALL of the unexplored conflicts.
@@BigElite0021 have you played totk yet, major spoilers from cut scenes the one who sealed ganondorf was the first king of the kingdom of hyrule, that gives the sealing of ganondorf older placement than oot, and also makes it impossible to be during the 10000+ years because ganondorf is sealed and there can’t be 2 gerudo males at a time
This was an incredible video to watch. It had me thinking that the timeline was really a Zelda Multiverse but at the end, it ended up branching everything together. I remember Nintendo Black Crisis making a theory similar to this with Four Swords but I felt like it missed a lot of detail such as the towns in Adventure of Link being names of Sages. I never considered the idea that they would become Sages even in different realities. This video was also very insightful and mentioned details about the lore I was unaware of. Fantastic job to everyone involved.
@@ZeldaLore Do you think you could post an image of the timeline you made for this video that includes the wars and everything else? I'd love to see it.
@@ZeldaLore i felt like knowing this, Phantasy Star I to IV Disconnected/Inconsistencies English Localization and Final Fantasy Many lost lore made me realize than theres so many mysteries of this game that already answered by the dev who made all this game during an interview wich was sadly lost to time during the era of magazine or even because it was a local interviews only on japan(wich thankfully at least for Final Fantasy, they start to open up the interviews to be more globaly since theres this Final Fantasy XIV Fest or something) thankyou for handling this beautifuly, something that resolve my own curiosity
One thing to keep in mind with Link to the Past and any games set after it is that even in ALTTP's era Hylians needed the Book of Mudora to understand the ancient Hylian language. That makes mistranslations and misunderstandings of any events from previous eras very very likely.
@@ZeldaLore can't remember who but someone had already did the fallen timeline theory based on minish cap's ending. And even then I considered it canon versus nintendo's. Though I think yours does go more in depth.
This was great to watch through! I believe that this timeline you made is definitely the most believable, and fixes some issues that the original had. Keep up the good work!
I said I would watch this video. Several months later I finally did! I am amazed by the final product. You fixed all my gripes with the original timeline, and improved it in ways I didn't know it needed to be improved! I especially liked the fix with the Four Sword Games. Stellar job!
About the statements given in A Link Between Worlds that Ganon was sealed away and the Triforce was split upon said sealing, despite A Link to the Past making it appear that Ganon was destroyed and blown up while the Triforce remained whole, there is a fix for that. When Ganon is resurrected at the end of the the linked Oracle games, his subsequent defeat by Link is animated in such a way that one could interpret the "poof" effect as not necessarily an explosion, but instead as Ganon simply disappearing by "poofing" away, as though Link had sent him off to another world or realm inside which he'd be trapped and sealed until the time of his release near the end of ALBW. Then, during the linked Oracle games' end credits, there is a scene where we see the three pieces of the Triforce separate from each other and transform into birds that fly off into the sky. This sequence could be read as the moment where the Triforce split, setting things up perfectly for their still being split by the start of ALBW. Therefore, the legend of Ganon's sealing and the Triforce split given in ALBW would not only be so muddied by mists of time that it's misremembering the historical events of ALTTP, but that it's also conflating them with the resurrection and sealing of Ganon at the end of the Oracle games.
My dude, this is the best fanmade timeline revision I have ever seen. It makes a ton of sense. And it's honestly probably my new headcanon for the series. And as you said in the video, even Nintendo themselves prefer to leave the interpretation of the timeline up to the fans as they just want to focus on making amazing games and leave the connected story as an afterthought. Overall, this was such a convincing interpretation that I wanna see what other cool Zelda theories you have. You've earned a subscription from me, lol. Very well done!
I usually disregard the Downfall Timeline as a dumping ground for games that where developed before the team made solid thoughts about a timeline (TloZ, Zelda II, AlttP, etc.) as well as their direct sequels (A Link between Worlds, Tri Force Heroes) but this work right here actually manages to incorporate these older games. Kudos for that.
I'm still a little uncomfortable with the idea that a timeline is started by a "bad ending", but your logic and reasoning is far, far better and cleaner than any official material we have been provided on the subject of a timeline. I can put up with that one gripe because of this! Thank you for all of the hard work and effort placed in this video! And I'm glad of the placement of BotW in the child timeline. It's always made the most sense to me, and has always seemed so so lazy to just say it "belongs to every timeline".
This is my new headcanon timeline for Zelda. It's cool how Minish Cap and Ocarina of Time are the most important games in this timeline besides Skyward Sword, since OoT was my first The Legend of Zelda game and one of if not the first game I ever played, and Minish Cap was the first Zelda game I played to completion. It makes way more sense for the timeline split to be based on a game with multiple endings each with its own cutscene instead of being based on the possibility of the protagonist loosing off screen or something. You guys did a great job on this, you've both earned yourselves a subscriber.
A split in The Minish Cap where you either succeed or fail instead of the usual OOT one where there's three splits (child, adult, or the hero dies)....Hmm, when you put it like that, it would make sense and it's an interesting way to fix this. Especially when you take into consideration about Ganon being in his demon boar form in Four Swords Adventures: You just got a new subscriber thanks to this and using some excellent evidence to back this idea up. By the by, I see Breath of the Wild as the one that brings the timelines together based on dialogue and species existing in the same point in time together.
I'm glad the video is back up! Looking forward to listening to it again (and I agree with the person on the previous video who asked for an HD version of your timeline for printing...I totally want to put it in my Hyrule Historia as supplementary material!)
Here's the HD version! twitter.com/ZeldaLoreYT/status/1575531126113898498 you will find a link to google drive in the tweet with an even larger version. I warn you, it is massive
Already gave you feedback on the first video, but here again: This video is a monster (in a good way)! Outstanding research of you all and awesome presented! 🙏
This is excellent. I had long had qualms with Historia's timeline, especially the placement of Four Swords Adventures, and this explains all my misgivings while presenting a beautifully functional alternative.
This is so fucking cool!! Ive been saying for years that even the devs try not to care too much about timeline and leaves it to the fans, but its really amazing to see a group put together the research and effort necessary to produce something like this. Honestly inspiring
As someone who grew up with the hyrule historia version of events, this is actually swaying my opinion! This is a very good interpretation of the timeline and really adds context to a lot of the 2D zeldas (which I wasn’t really familiar with). There’s something really satisfying with the split between the 2D and 3D branches.
What's actually amusing about this proposed third split solution is I actually did fail that the first time I attempted it because I didn't take it seriously (as in I thought it was faux tension)... what a pro gamer Also this is the most compelling fan timeline I've seen since Lancun's back in the old days of TH-cam... well done!
I loved this and it’s probably the best adapted timeline video I’ve seen. A very well made video. You’ve included many ideas I’ve had but made me think of a few things I had overlooked. I hadn’t considered moving the origin of the fallen timeline to another game besides Ocarina of a Time. I’m also really glad you mentioned something that almost every Zelda theory channel gets wrong… you mentioned stuff like Koroks and other people, events, places being seen in one timeline doesn’t mean they aren’t in the other timeline. Thank you! It drives me nuts that people ignore stuff like that. I’m an evolutionary biologist and think about timelines a little how I think of phylogenetic trees (cladistics, family trees etc). As you said, if you see something in one timeline and not another, it could mean it’s there but you just haven’t seen it or the game happens to not show it. But also things can vanish, be removed, be lost. Some might think the bridge from Twilight Princess isn’t in the adult timeline because the great flood occurred before it was built, but maybe it was built and it’s under the seas and we just never got to explore the entirety of Hyrule. Or maybe it was actually built but the great flood destroyed it. I don’t really care about the bridge and I’m not trying to prove anything specific. I just like when people point out that something existing in one game doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in other timelines.
I agree completley! Regarding what you said on "evolution" in the context of the differing timelines i have to point out the fact that by the Era in which the events of Breath of the Wild take place we see many species from across the 3 timelines who shouldn't be able to exist at the same time given the circumstances surrounding their evolutionary "ancestry" (eg: the Zora, Rito and Koroks). To this i simply have to point out that the very unification of the 3 timelines in Breath of the Wild implies the existence of 2 contradictory evolutionary stages to be the cause of *divine intervention* (eg: the Golden Goddessess) which either "willed" the evolution of the races in Hyrule so that the Zora would come into being in the Adult Timeline despite having fully evolved into the Rito or instead allowed some members of the Zora race to evolve into Rito in the Child and Downfall Timelines. The ambiguous long timegap between the end of the 3 and the beggining of the Era of the Wild serves as a "canvas" with which players can suggest any possible divine act of "theistic evolution" by the Golden Goddesses in order to justify the presence of all the races throughout the 3 timelines without any fear of contradiction based on the narrative of a previous game starring a specific race.
For both the Zora and Rito to coexist, all that needs to happen is a group of Zora would venture out, meet Valoo and be transformed into Rito. We even see dragon bones near Rito Village which may indeed have belonged to Valoo (Dragon Bone Mire).
@@javiervasquez625 If you think about evolution in real life, a subgroup can begin to differ genetically from the rest of the population. It’s totally possible for the Rito to coexist with Zora and have evolved from them. It’s like how us humans evolved from fish but there are still fish in the world.
@@geneticjen9312 Agreed. Still it's more than likely that the evolution of all Life in the Zelda Universe was indeed guided by the Golden Goddesses as we know it was Farore who created all Life so that it would uphold the Laws established by Nayru after Din gave birth to the physical World. The fact that Farore created Life in tune to a divine plan suggests every step in the evolutionary tree to have been preordained by the Goddesses from the very beggining.
Awesome video! Extremely thorough in justifying some of the more contentious placements. The split exactly at the game over screen in MC is a bit tenuous. Considering everything else that happens in between games, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to create splits also outside of games. We don’t always have to point to a specific in-game event that causes a split. And if it happens close enough to a game, before much has a chance to change, a single game could be at the start of 2 branches right after a split since the differences cascading between branches would not have had enough time to influence the story. Just saying that to say, we shouldn’t take game overs as canon, and we don’t have to. It’s enough to say “there’s clearly a split somewhere around here” without needing an in-game event to explain it. That gives so much more freedom. Yes, you could argue then that the problem with that approach is that there could be 10 timelines instead of 1 and everything could be in its own timeline, defeating the purpose of trying to create a coherent one. But all you have to do is add the objective of wanting to create a cohesive overall timeline with as few splits as possible. The BotW placement can be debated but if you take the position that timelines do not reunify, it is probably the best placement. We know from the adult timeline that the Zoras and human-Kokiri have the genetic predisposition to evolve into the Rito and plant-Kokiri given sufficient environmental pressures. All that’s required is for similar pressures to exist at some point in the child timeline and it’s reasonable they would evolve in similar ways. That at least takes care of some inconsistencies, but doesn’t explain others. Anyway, great collaboration and great video!
I had a think about the reunification of the three branches. The basic synopsis was that Ganondorf was revived and knew he didn’t stand a chance against Hyrule and the sheika tech during its peak (guardians, no Devine beasts yet). So he preformed a ritual which used his connections to the Triforce of Power, the curse of Demise, and the sacred realm to fuse his powers from each main branch to become a force great enough to obliterate anyone and anything in his way. The unintended consequences of this was dragging the timelines along with his different versions, merging or introducing different versions of the races (some changed in appearance and some did not), and also monsters (lyonels and hinoxen appearing). Naturally, this caused quite the stir in Hyrule, causing chaos and panic. And with the rite completed, the power Ganondorf summoned could not be contained to his physical container any longer, and he became, The Great Calamity Ganon. From there you get the creation of the Devine Beasts and the United front from 10,000 years ago. (This was thought of before we were shown TotK in any greater capacity) There’s probably a ton of flaws in this but I really like the concept of it.
Man I hope there's an update to this video soon!!! My head canon is still this theory combined with the hyrule warriors theory (I know it's not canon but the official hyrule encyclopedia literally said we can use our imaginations so will do lol) that explains how all three timelines are combined in the end to get to BotW! (I.e the reason theirs rock salt from the great flood, but also Lynels that only show in downfall, and the references to the child timeline)
Another thing that makes sense is that the Twinrova are alive in OoA/OoS because you never fought them in the 2D timeline during the time when OoT was happening in the 3D timeline.
I feel like that at some point the twilight may have found a way back to Hyrule and became the zonai with some of them living in settlements in the sky and others on the ground in Hyrule as the zonai. It would make sense for all the ruins in tears of the kingdom and why the Twili and zonai seem so similar but I guess we'll have to wait till next year when tears of the kingdom is released.
This just may be the ultimate timeline theory I've ever seen. To me, it makes so much more sense in this way rather than the official timeline, which has many contradictions
This was phenomenal!! Thank you for creating a timeline that follows cohesive rules and makes sense of ALL the "unexplored conflicts"! This is so awesome you guys!
0:00 - Intro 3:58 - The Legend of Zelda 5:05 - A Link to the Past 7:26 - Ocarina of Time 17:51 - The Wind Waker 22:08 - Twilight Princess 31:20 - Spirit Tracks 32:01 - Skyward Sword 36:18 - A Link Between Worlds 42:13 - Breath of the Wild 51:59 - The Adventure of Link 53:46 - Link's Awakening 54:45 - Majora's Mask 55:42 - Phantom Hourglass 56:32 - Tri Force Heroes 57:29 - Oracle games 1:04:36 - Four Swords 1:05:40 - Four Swords Adventures 1:16:22 - The Minish Cap 1:19:06 - The unification of the two timelines 1:24:24 - The final version of the timeline 1:26:03 - Outro
This is the definitive version of the timeline for me. All the stuff with The Minish Cap and Vaati especially just makes so much more sense than the “downfall” timeline.
I genuinely hope this version gets more traction in the community! This is the most sensible timeline of events in my wholehearted opinion. The downfall timeline always sat weird with me and until this video, I'd subscribed to VortexxyGaming's idea that there had to be a specific point in OoT to cause it and not just any "game over" screen. This just fits so well and as far as I'm concerned is canon. Also thank you for adjusting the Four Sword games. One of them being after Twilight Princess also always bothered me. Seriously, this is a masterpiece! Can't wait to see your thoughts on Tears of the Kingdom and how it plays in!!
1:20:35 Your split in minish cap is the same problem with the "hero is defeated" split. It doesn't fit with only one game able to have a split like this. Zelda splits should only occur if time travel is involved. OoT and use the time travel present in Skyward Sword that easily presents a split between present and past.
@@the_actual_lauren I disagree. I see your point that MC actually had a small cinematic if you lost at that particular point, but mechanically it still doesn't work. What sends link back to try again when he fails? What force is at work that both timelines exist? There is no time travel hinted at in MC, so only one outcome, sucess or failure, can actually happen not both.
@@PhoutianPhill Do both timelines HAVE to exist simultaneously? I'd argue not (especially since Nintendo themselves don't seem to think so) and I think that the fallen hero timeline following the bad ending of Minish Cap is much more satisfying and interesting than "what if Link died" in Ocarina. Not to mention the fact that the time travel in Skyward Sword can't explain a timeline split simply because that is not how time travel works in that game.
@@SpyWilliam123 why can't Skyward Sword explain a timeline split? There's no indicator in OoT on the exact workings on its time travel (song of storms paradox) yet it is widely accepted as adult and child timelines.
This must have been a difficult task to try to fix this timeline! It seems a bit more plausible for the timeline placement. Very well made video and thorough research. :) At 50:46, that new mural in the HD remaster of Twilight Princess, is not canon. An artist who made that mural confirmed that it's not canon and that he added those other races because he thought it would look cool. Or something like that. He did apologize for any confusion it may have caused. One of the Zelda theorists talked about it in their video. Otherwise, this was a great video to watch.
That mural he said that he made without a story in mind. However, in-universe, that mural is now in Hyrule Castle, carved into its walls by the people of Hyrule. A story can definitely be written in the future to tell the events of that mural.
@@ZeldaLore I guess that's true, that Nintendo could possibly go back and create a story based on that mural. But I dunno. It really depends on if Nintendo will go back to add more in-between stories. But who knows what the future may hold.
@@CoolBeanSoup anything is possible. And with Nintendo Studios and the release of the Super Mario Movie, who knows if they will make Zelda movies in the future.
@@ZeldaLore And tbh that mural happened during the development of Breath of the Wild which we know took over 11 years. It's not entirely imposible that he heard a rumour that both were appearing together in a game. I would also think that would LOOK COOOOOOOOL, imagine going wild with that idea pre-BotW. Would take my sleep away for sure.
Wonderful video and wonderful timeline lads. You guys really did your homework and came up with something clean and sensible. Good job. I especially like the idea of the Minish Cap split. I'm surprised I nor anyone else I've seen online have considered it yet. I get the idea that most games have good and bad endings but I agree that the Minish Cap has the biggest ramifications for it's endings. You guys truly covered almost every angle, it's impressive. Keep up the good work and have a good day. You've just earned a new subscriber.
Watched it completely and gotta say that I absolutely respect the effort that got into it. Really well made and deserves to go viral across the Zelda Community. Thank you for the video :)
I appreciate it!! The video has just now become the most viewed on the channel (and I mean literally just seconds ago xD) so it definitely is catch steam!!! :D
This was incredible and without question the most well thought out and well researched Zelda timeline video that I've seen. I have two quick thoughts. 1. I don't even think using Minish Cap to connect the timelines is even necessary. I think having the two realities makes a lot of sense. You nailed the origin of so much confusion which was OOT trying to be the imprisoning war but then changing way too much. I think similar to how GTA has the 3D universe and the HD universe, Zelda having the 2D and 3D universes also is pretty clean. 2. I'm VERY curious about the Oracle games developer quote you were not able to track down as that may be the most important quote in nailing down the timeline placement. As of now I actually lean towards the Zelda Encyclopedia placement with a new Link having an adventure after LA. The fact the Zelda doesn't know Link in OOX was a big point for me. Incredible job guys!
1) I agree. honestly either works just as fine, that's why I started with the separate one first and then reconciled them (but it seems nintendo has always wanted all the games to share a common history) 2) we're still looking for that! trust me, its just a matter of time before its found. (in fact, on our search we've uncovered an interview from OOT where it confirms Ruto's mother is indeed dead, as well as there being female gorons which look identical to male gorons, and gerudo always having gerudo children regardless of if they have children with hylians. pretty cool stuff!). But yeah, that Zelda quote is certainly a monkey wrench. It seems to me they initially had no thoughts on where the games would be in the timeline, and later decided it would be a sequel to LA, and forgot to change that line of dialogue which made Zelda seem to now know Link.
@@ZeldaLore There's another minor detail that throws everything off with Oracle. While Twinrova is resurrecting Ganon, they refer to him as the "Gerudo King." Wouldn't that place the Oracle games after Ocarina?
I'll always find it funny when Zelda fans complain about the official downfall timeline, especially when their alternative splits are based on the exact same logic. Nice work though, a very well put together video. It's always fun to think about this stuff :)
Yeah and you know something they should have never complain about it considering this was originally supposed to happen because if I remember there was this thing In ocarina of time originally development link was supposed to lose regardless and that would have been a downer for the player so they went with a split so Nintendo really didn’t pull the downfall out there ass after all like most upset 😠 fans of the classic would think it’s was because of a retcon
@@ecanus-3605 OoT Link shown in TP is clearly a fully grown adult and has to have descendants for TP Link to be born in the first place. The only plausible placement is Child Timeline.
I love how my biggest take away is that if Nintendo just pushed back what created the Fallen Hero Timeline to something like Minish Cap (like you presented) shit would have made a lot more sense. It genuinely raises a chuckle out of me that the Zelda timeline works decently enough when you're just working with the original unified and child/adult timelines but everything goes to shit when ya gotta include the Fallen Hero one.
Probably the best Zelda timeline video I've seen. Congratulations on the video (I also subscribed as well😁) and I look forward to seeing more videos from you.👏👏
Such timeline doesn't exist because Marin is happy as a seagull because there's no reason for her not be a seagull because she's never gonna become a Human again ! :)
The 4-sword being able to split Link could also explain how reality splits in Minish Cap Specially since Minish Cap is when the picori blade gets destroyed and the 4-sword is created The split could’ve happened at the beginning, with the 2 timelines staying identical till the bell part, where they started differentiating
I love the games that are centered closest to the child/adult timeline split. Though events may change greatly at a nexus point in the timeline (Ganondorf is banished or executed), other smaller events will remain set in stone. Timelines or "World Lines" are still quite similar. So there are similar details like Ocarina's sages being Twilight Princess' sages. In Wind Waker, Ganondorf dies standing up because he is turned to stone, and in Twilight Princess, Ganondorf also dies standing up but due to sheer force of will. Either way, events between the timelines will still be much the same. This is essentially how Steins;Gate interprets time, as "world lines".
This is probably the most clear and easy to follow explanation I've seen regarding the Zelda timeline, especially after watching BDG have a full on meltdown trying to piece the games together. Great job!
Considering the possibility that Vaati may be alive in Tears of the Kingdom as suggested by some theorists like Dr. Wily i wonder if he might still be sealed inside the Four Sword waiting to take revenge on either Link or Ganondorf as revenge for his inmprisonment.
@@javiervasquez625 That's a good question. If it did happen in Tears of the Kingdom, what would he look like in the style of Tears of the Kingdom/Breath of the Wild? And who would be his English voice once Tears of the Kingdom is localized to the Americas?
@@PrincessDreamActress My bet would be on someone like Yuri Lowenthall to fit his "affeminate" look from The Minish Cap. It would be so cool if Vaati showed up and tried to betray Ganondorf as ironic payback for using him for his own goals in the Child Timeline.
@@javiervasquez625 And it would be an irony too. How fitting it would be. As for me, I think...Zeno Robinson or Steve Staley. But I'm willing to be surprised too. As long as the voice sounds good for Vaati, I'll be satisfied.
While I disagree with this timeline , not factoring in that there might be two splits. And that splitting a timeline , in the future , works differently in the past. I do respect the effort of going that far out of your way to solve this puzzle. And it has given me a few notes for my own , thank you.
It actually makes way more sense for the continent of Hyrule to have been sunk by the Goddesses beneath the ocean rather than being flooded over. If the sea levels rose to cover nearly the entire land to that level then there really shouldn't be any other large lands. Unless New Hyrule's continent was 1000s of feet above the sea level prior
@@ZeldaLore It also explains why some areas are above sea level despite not being mountain regions like the forest. The Great Deku tree was on flat forest land but a small area of the Kokori forest and lost woods were above the waves most likely being left by the Goddesses so as not to kill everyone
You know, years before the "Official timeline" came to be, I personally held agreeance with the typical split timeline theory. In most of those, Minish cap and the four swords games all happened before OoT. So this timeline theory is very much something I can agree with.
There's another thing that confirms the fact that BOTW is placed after TP, and that's the place in the Faron region where there's a boar statue surrounded by 6 pillars (one fallen on the ground). The reference is clear: the boar represents TP Ganondorf and the pillars represent the 6 sages (with the fallen one being Ruto, the sage of water, given the fact that she's been murdered by Ganondorf)
@@Greenlog12 Sometimes in real life, and often in fiction, it's common for executioners to wear disguises to protect their identity. I presume that all the sages in TP look like old white dudes because they are using magical disguises since they are taking the role of executioner.
I would agree if there weren't references to literally every game throughout the timeline, both historically or just as a reference. Though I'm a downfall timeline believer, I'm pretty sure they made it clear the game happens at the end of all three timelines (as weird as that sounds).
Bro let me continue and add on to your confirmation of child timeline 🏰 🌳 1 The castle the castle town is pretty much that of TP just bigger 2 The bridge of hylia is still there just longer 3 Lake hylia and it’s shap is still there from TP just with a Shine in it 4 The big broken tree and ruin village is literally Odin village you can even follow the entrance out to hyrule field and line it up with the picture entrance to twilight princess when looking at the castle boy oh boy is the Imaged shockingly staggering!!!! 5 You can still find kakariko village by death mountain which GUESS WHAT LOOKS LIKE TWILIGHT PRINCESS imaged from both entrances just in ruins 6 The mirror of twilight yes the only way for that mirror to be rebuilt as a statue monument is if the events of Ganondorf not ruling and him being banishment aka twilight princess 7 Calamity ganon face is literally that of TP ganon face put them together and boom the image is staggering 8 Zelda from her mouth skyward bond - time drift and ember of twilight Yeah sounds like unified timeline split And Child branch 🌳 To me hmm?🤨 9 TOTK references incoming Ganondorf neck snap 🫰 just like how zant snap Ganondorf neck hmm?! 10 The green spiral 🌀 is pretty twilight like to me hmm?! 11 Oh yes I forgot someone has already spotted the twilight spirits of TP of what happeneds to people who pass into twilight in TOTK trailer?!!!! Like NO JOKE ITS REAL!!!!! Oh yes Minsh wind tower could be in TOTK but I am not really going to reference that one to much because will it happened before the split so that tower can resurface in all 12 Sky lore oh yes this one however can only really continue in one continuity Haven’t ya noticed this hmm 🤨 Skyward sword skylore Minsh cap skylore After split only one other game before the 10000+ years had this skylore TWILIGHT PRINCESS Here’s is probably the biggest one to reference the continuity to the CHILD branch TEARS 💧 Skyward sword had tears Twilight princess’s had Tears And Now TEARS 💧 OF THE KINGDOM HAS TEARS and a physical GANONDORF AS WELL WHICH CAN ONLY WORK FOR THE CHILD I rest my case Never forget Adult 🌊 Zelda flood Child 🌳 link prosperity Downfall 🔥 ganon destruction But hey we will see come may 12 shall we am going to preorder my copy on march 1 my birthday Look if the timelines did merged will fine but there is no denying if that does end up being official THE CHILD BRANCH IS THE MAIN BASES FOR THIS UNIVERSE Peace out ✌️
This is amazing. My interpretation of the timeline is much different, but I learned so much that I didn’t know, and have a much better understanding. Much respect! Nice job!!
I praise the quality of this video and all the effort that was put into it. I personally lean more towards a timeline split caused by a time travel event happening somewhere between Minish cap and Skyward sword. Jack Six already made a good point that is very similar to my own thoughts so I don't think I need to explain more about them.
"But there are other cutscenes that show a bad ending. In Skyward Sword..." *uggghghghggasdd grumble grumble* Do NOT remind me of that avocado. I only lost twice to him in the entire game, but it was the worst boss I had to fight, even more than Scaldera or Tentalus (those were fun at least, for the first time Zelda player that I am) Very informed, very well researched and proposed, I like this timeline. We need more Vaati appreciation after all :3
this is very well put out. especially since i like watching zelda theories, one of which i had watched connected Majora's mask and twilight princess VERY strongly- and remembered that as you stuck all the pieces together!
Based on the year on the grave, the approximate year every game is set in is as follows: 0 - Skyward Sword 200 - Minish Cap 300 - Four Sword & Four Swords Adventures 487 - Ocarina of Time (Child) & Majora's Mask 494 - Ocarina of Time (Adult) 594 - Twilight Princess 894 - Wind Waker & Phantom Hourglass 994 - Spirit Tracks 1094 - A Link to the Past, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, & Link’s Awakening 1214 - A Link Between Worlds 1217 - Triforce Heroes 1514 - The Legend of Zelda 1518 - The Adventure of Link 11,518+ - Age of Calamity 11,618+ - Breath of the Wild 11,623+ - Tears of the Kingdom
breath of the wild is much longer than 10thousand years later, 10 thousand years ago from breath of the wild is just when the sheikah were building mechs and stuff. in your dates, they would mean that happened in twilight princess.
Another detail supporting vaati starting the triforce war. The interlopers are depicted as dark links, and vaati just so happens to be wearing the same minish cap (haha get it) that link wears in ezero, making him look like a dark version of him
Very good, I personally believe that an unknown event or Hyrule Warriors merged the timelines and that eventually leads to Breathe of the Wild. The Ganon that causes this would be a ganon from the twilight princess timeline
This would also mean that Zelda in bad ending line is not of the Goddess Hylia, because Vaati absorbed her essence. Maybe a wish was made to bring back Hylia after the Adventure of Link, which leads to the good ending line replacing the old(bad ending) line?
Love this video, watched it several times over. It does make sense, the Official Timeline I never had frustrating issues with but this I can believe. I honestly would be just as happy if this was the official timeline.
I hope you enjoy this video!
Please like & share the video, it took long 8 months to make, and I had to re-upload it as not only was if fake copyright claimed by a company which had no rights to the song used, I also found some editing mistakes which are now fixed! (At the expense of the previous engagement the video had, it was doing so well... 😢)
Follow Lorulean Historian on Twitter: twitter.com/tglmudora
Follow Instrutilus on Twitter: twitter.com/Instrutilus
Also! You can find the HD Timeline of this video here (I even translated it into Japanese!):
twitter.com/ZeldaLoreYT/status/1575531126113898498
can we get a document of said timeline
I was wondering if we could get a full transcript of this theory. The video is great with chapter breaks and everything. I was just thinking, no joke , this would also make a great book, maybe illustrated by the handdrawn game guide guy.
Now the real question is with Legend of Zelda tears of the kingdom where would that be placed will there be an updated video?
@@The_Purple_Trickster after Breath of the Wild
This is now my headcanon
“We don’t change calendars as a result of great wars!”
Chinese, Aztec, Maya, Japanese, Greek, Ottoman calendars: 👁️👄👁️
I've never given the Fallen Timeline much grounding as it's based solely on "what if" because you beat Ganon in OOT. The idea with Vatii is much more plausible.
When it comes to "fixing" the "what if" problem regarding the Downfall Timeline i've always held the headcanon that the events of this timeline begin NOT during the final battle against Ganon in Ocarina of Time but rather BEFORE the beggining of the "unified" timeline back in Skyward Sword as an adjacent timeline that is *parallel* to the one where the timesplit happened. Basically speaking the Downfall Timeline is it's own SEPARATE timeline with all of the events from Skyward Sword, The Minish Cap and Four Sword happening normally until the Hero of Time's defeat during his battle with Ganon. By making the Downfall become a *parallel* timeline to the timesplit one we can logically justify it's existence as a sort of "twin" to the the timeline which splitted into the Adult and Child Timelines and so avoid the while idea of a "what if" scenario like in the case of Age of Calamity. Of course when it comes to the question of "how could the Downfall Timeline be referenced in Breath of the Wild?" we can take Aonuma's words to heart by simply arguing that timegap between Zelda 2 and the Era of the Wild is so far appart that the people of Hyrule would inevitably forget about it along with the other 2 timelines.
Idk I did die in OOT a few times ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I used to think the fallen timeline was stupid and didn’t make sense… then one day I realized how it can actually make sense.
Child timeline happens because Zelda sends link back in time to relive his childhood. In that timeline Link snitches on Ganondorf.
Adult timeline happens cause the timeline Adult Zelda sent Link away from is from a land where Ganondorf reigned for 7 years straight before he was defeated by Adult Link.
Then…. Every single time you put the master sword in the temple of time to return to being kid link in the game what if time goes on. The time Link has left is one where Ganondorf took over for 7 years straight and the worst thing Link has done to oppose him was complete every dungeon with the exception of the final dungeon, so Ganondorf just rebuilds and takes over again in a timeline where he’s not defeated and the hero of time isn’t there to stop him.
@@chimericalical this is exactly what I feel happened too
Plus wouldn't a fallen timeline effect the future and past, don't save the future, can't be sent back to save the other split in the timeline, therefore it would be split four ways. If so this would creat 2 separate pairs of parallel what ifs that would each cause even more of a mess to explain and connect the timeline. That being said, enjoy the lore and believe the order you imagine, I ignore certain games all together as apart of the timeline. I still love these games all in their own ways, can't say I really "hate" any of the games, (other than the cdi games if you are savage enough to to call them zelda games).
Actually fantastic. this timeline presentation is WAY more satisfying than the "official" one.
While I'm a firm believer that it's okay for each Zelda game to change, alter, or disregard the timelines at their own discretion to avoid stifling creativity or being too hung up on details, I'm also the meticulous type that likes it when things click together cleanly. This caters to my inner desire for the timeline to flow smoothly very nicely.
As a diehard Minish Cap fan, I love the idea that it could be the lynchpin in unifying a single, branching continuity. The game so frequently gets overlooked that it's nice to see *any* acknowledgement, much less considering it a catalyst for the rest of the franchise. All in all, I appreciate how thoroughly you presented your case for this interpretation! While I acknowledge (as Jack Six's earlier comment points out) that this secondary split doesn't need to be associated with anything we see on-screen, your perspective feels more cohesive than the official timeline.
To give you some fuel for The Minish Cap's importance: it looks like it's the reason the Triforce War/Fierce War kicked off.
Vaati sends some guards around Hyrule to look for the Force, and they began to talk:
"フォースは なんでも のぞみが かなうといわれる
宝物！
ハイラル王は きっと 平和のために 役立てようと
なさって おられるのです"
"The ""Force"" is a treasure
said to grant any wishes!
I'm sure that the King
is trying to use it for peace!"
Now, the Force does not grant wishes: Vaati has a cap for that and it's confirmed by him that he wants the power the Force provides to combine with his cap:
"かぶった人のねがいを かなえる
このぼうしは すばらしい！
おかげで わたしは この世界で
たった一人のそんざい・・・
何者にも まけない 魔人となれたのです
残すは フォースの力を 手に入れるのみ！
これも 全部 アナタのおかげです
ワタシからの プレゼントを うけとってください"
"This cap grants the wishes of the user,
it's wonderful!
I will become unique!
An invicible sorcerer
Must find the power of the ""Force""!
It's all thanks to you! Here's a present from me!"
But a wish granting force? That sounds familiar.
Vaati, the first villain Hyrule faced, doomed the Kingdom to an eternal war by complete accident...
Vaati has been my custom mouse cursor for several years.
I want to share my deep appreciation for whoever made those custom animated cursors on that one website I forgot long ago…
People only really talk about it because of vaati the Minish and sometimes the wind tribe
I think Vaati being the cause of a timeline split makes sense due to him being the final boss with the second most appearances across the games, so with a staying power as strong as that is sure to cause something impactful.
@@plpfangyrl here's a terrible idea. Majoras mask was made by the demon tribe. DEMISES tribe. He mentions he is part of a tribe of demons. Maybe those demons are the sorcerers from majoras mask. Maybe demise used the mask to make his army of monsters and invaded hyrule with his tribe of magic demons and was defeated and sealed. Demise was sealed individually being the demon KING. His tribe, however, was judged as simply following their kings designs and were therefore sealed instead of executed. The events of skyward sword happen and he's re-sealed. Fast forward and Minish Cap happens and link gets the good end. OoT happens and link goes back and warns zelda. He then goes and falls through a tree and through a HOLE IN THE GROUND (the Fissure the demon tribe came up from) and finds himself in another world. After the mask Salesman takes the mask link comes back and TwP happens where failed execution Ganon is sealed in the twilight realm because no one by that time KNEW he was a reincarnation of DEMISE.
Edit: to add onto this, I think Girahim and Vattii look alike for a reason. Either the spirit of Girahim wants to:
A. Get godly power to revive Demise and surrender the power to him
B. Wants godly power to destroy the world and get revenge on the goddesses for sealing him and his mater.
C. Wants to free the Twili and conquer hyrule/the world.
looks like my next timeline run will have to follow this. It makes so much more sense.
also madd props in noticing the potential split in Minish. Such a great and underrated game. I'm glad to see it may actually hold a major part in Hyrule history.
The revisions done to the "downfall timeline" and the placement of Breath of the Wild are adept and make a more cohesive canon. However, I still like the idea of OOT being the catalyst for the 3 way split-- think of the final battle with Ganon. All three triforce parts are actively commanding the power of the Gods, and all three wishes are granted simultaneously. Link's wish to smite the evil, Zelda's wish that they were able to prevent Ganon's rise, and Ganon's wish to dominate the kingdom. From there, each reality can still be considered canon. FS and FSA can still take place next in the "downfall timeline" but it's also in those timeline's games that Ganon is henceforth always manifested as the beast version. To me, this makes for a much more epic story.
A Triforce Magical 404 error due to conflicting commands is pretty cool and also make me chuckle a bit.
Never thought about it like that.
Thanks.
@@TimeCircleBlue thr three Goddesses trying to figure out ehoch wish the triforce would grant, they can't, so they just go "fuck it" and grant all three at once
I actually like that idea especially as the triforce "resonates" when the three are assembled in Ganondorf's sick organ room. I think the only time we see it resonating is when a wish is being granted?
I'm pleasantly surprised. Many people try to put games before Skyward Sword with little to no explanation, so I've become wary of "timeline fixes" in general, but this video was VERY well made!
Yeah I have seen that when people try to put games before skyward sword makes me die laughing on the ground 🤣iam like really REALLY?!A ULTIMATE PREQUEL with a goddess 😇 and primary evil 😈 yeah sorry fans no other game can be placed before that
That’s like putting a story before the creation and the year of trees in middle earth story
That’s like trying to put a well grounded story before the book of genesis sorry it doesn’t work like that lol 😂
Skyward sword is the ultimate beginning wither they like it or not
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003 To be fair, Skyward Sword's surface world is already clearly a post-apocalyptic wasteland. There WERE a lot of things that happened before the game starts.
Just none of them resemble anything that happens in the other games.
@@kendrajade6688 in SS Link goes back in time to the time of the apocalypse, immediately after the titanic battle between Hylia and Demise. That’s what happened. Between that era and and the ‘present’ of SS there’s no room for any other games, and Hylia’s war with Demise is the first significant even after the creation and the goddesses leaving Hylia in charge.
@@russellharrell2747 You clearly forgot about the chosen hero of Hylia whom she gave the original sailcloth to that Zelda tells Link about when she presents the one she gives to him in the events of the game. SS Link never met Hylia and nowhere does it say that the battle against Demise was fought by Hylia. We knew she sustained mortal injuries:
"After a long and fierce battle, the goddess, Hylia, succeeded in sealing away Demise. However, soon after the demon king was imprisoned, it became clear that the seal would not hold long against his fearsome power. Hylia had suffered grave injuries in her battle with the demon king. She knew that if he broke free again, there would be no stopping him".
The battle must have been between her chosen hero (most likely an earlier Link) and Demise with Hylia there to seal Demise (much like Zelda) and likely got caught in the ferocity of the fight. We knew she already sent islands of the surface into the sky which likely drained her a good deal and would no way be able to fight Demise one on one. Plus if she were to do that, there would be no purpose to have mentioned her chosen hero who she gave the original sailcloth to.
It's obvious Nintendo gave themselves room to create a prequel to Skyward Sword covering the events of the backstory if they ever decided to explore that, which I think is only a matter of time.
Also, the way Skyward Sword ends creates a time paradox and if anything should create a split in the timeline/universe. Why? Because Link in that game destroys the very reason for his Skyward Sword adventure. He kills Demise not only in the present in the form of the Imprisoned by dropping Sky Keep on him but he also kills Demise's past self in the era not long after he was sealed & Hylia died. It would create a new history where in the 1000s of years before Link was born & in the years where he grew up, there was no Demise for the Ghirahim of the past (who would've still been left alive but with no master to break from a seal at the Sealed Grounds when the new version of the modern day events of Skyward Sword, i.e. when Link & Zelda are adults, happen). The entire creation of the Master Sword as it happened in Skyward Sword would never have taken place in the new parallel reality that was created (or should certainly be explained to have been created). Such a reality not existing is a complete contradiction & hypocrisy on the part of Nintendo when you consider how they handled the Child Timeline where the same Ganondorf from the OoT era was stopped and prevented from gaining the Triforce and instead sentenced to death, leading to a very different reality than what took place in the Adult Timeline. There has to be some consistency instead of cherrypicking when a split in the timeline happens & when it doesn't.
If anything, the events of Skyward Sword should really take place in a self contained time loop that repeats after the course of events starting from the beginning of the game when Link wakes up in his bed at the academy getting ready to be in the competition through everything he goes through up to the point where he time travels to kill Demise in the past and changes history. This would cause a Demise-less world 1000s of years back in the past and would kill Link's SS quest thus causing him not to go one such a quest which would result in the return of Demise as the events play out where it would again loop back to Demise being alive and sealed and Link going on his quest to only have the same cycle of a world with Demise and a world void of Demise loop endlessly. The entire loop would take 1000s of years to cycle but a bootstrap paradox like the one created in the game should result in this very scenario. Or at the very least a split in the universe with 2 branches---a reality where the events after killing Demise continue onward and a reality where Demise never existed in the present day in any form (at the Sealed Grounds) where the Master Sword would be created due to events that happen later on for other reasons. Since the Master Sword's origin was originally in A Link to the Past said to be created by the people of Hyrule for a hero and not by a hero himself (or a goddess indirectly), such a split would allow them to properly do a Master Sword origin that complies with the original origin and could keep the post-Skyward Sword world to explore new ideas, like a reality where Demise returns as Demise and there is no Ganondorf.
This deserves way more views, very well-researched, edited, and evidenced. This might be my new headcanon honestly. Can’t wait to see what Tears of the Kingdom will add!
Probably wouldn't drastically change the timeline since it's a direct sequel. Definitely will explain how Ganondorf got sealed but probably not how long he has been sealed. Could have been over 20,000 years but definitely longer than 10,000. No wonder he's pissed.
Seriously!! this felt flawless! The rules you created make so much sense and hold so cohesively. On top of that, you explained ALL of the unexplored conflicts.
@@BigElite0021 have you played totk yet, major spoilers from cut scenes
the one who sealed ganondorf was the first king of the kingdom of hyrule, that gives the sealing of ganondorf older placement than oot, and also makes it impossible to be during the 10000+ years because ganondorf is sealed and there can’t be 2 gerudo males at a time
@@namaenomore7831 they basically just threw out the timeline or its at the end of adult timeline in new hyrule
@@dablindscooter1973 or created the fourth timeline based on….
This was an incredible video to watch. It had me thinking that the timeline was really a Zelda Multiverse but at the end, it ended up branching everything together. I remember Nintendo Black Crisis making a theory similar to this with Four Swords but I felt like it missed a lot of detail such as the towns in Adventure of Link being names of Sages. I never considered the idea that they would become Sages even in different realities. This video was also very insightful and mentioned details about the lore I was unaware of. Fantastic job to everyone involved.
the timeline NintendoBlackCrisis covered is actually this very same one, only he did more of an overview, while we went indepth
@@ZeldaLore Do you think you could post an image of the timeline you made for this video that includes the wars and everything else? I'd love to see it.
@@ThomasCapella you want to make it into a poster and hang it on your wall. right!
@@ZeldaLore i felt like knowing this, Phantasy Star I to IV Disconnected/Inconsistencies English Localization and Final Fantasy Many lost lore made me realize than theres so many mysteries of this game that already answered by the dev who made all this game during an interview wich was sadly lost to time during the era of magazine or even because it was a local interviews only on japan(wich thankfully at least for Final Fantasy, they start to open up the interviews to be more globaly since theres this Final Fantasy XIV Fest or something)
thankyou for handling this beautifuly, something that resolve my own curiosity
One thing to keep in mind with Link to the Past and any games set after it is that even in ALTTP's era Hylians needed the Book of Mudora to understand the ancient Hylian language. That makes mistranslations and misunderstandings of any events from previous eras very very likely.
Incredible video and idea to propose a timeline fix! Really enjoyed watching this and glad to see it back up! 💪
Now all we have to do is send this video to Nintendo! Hahaha (can you imagine? XD)
@@ZeldaLore can't remember who but someone had already did the fallen timeline theory based on minish cap's ending. And even then I considered it canon versus nintendo's. Though I think yours does go more in depth.
@@ZeldaLore What If Zelda 1 And Zelda 2 Take Place After Botw and Before Tears Of The Kingdom
@@haileeraestout5567 they don't
@@haileeraestout5567 and ra dom theory with zero backing that comes out of keft field goes to....
This was great to watch through! I believe that this timeline you made is definitely the most believable, and fixes some issues that the original had. Keep up the good work!
This is the true timeline to me now. If Nintendo isn’t gonna care about their timeline, then I won’t either. To me, THIS is the perfect take.
I said I would watch this video. Several months later I finally did!
I am amazed by the final product. You fixed all my gripes with the original timeline, and improved it in ways I didn't know it needed to be improved!
I especially liked the fix with the Four Sword Games.
Stellar job!
Thanks man! Really appreciate it!
About the statements given in A Link Between Worlds that Ganon was sealed away and the Triforce was split upon said sealing, despite A Link to the Past making it appear that Ganon was destroyed and blown up while the Triforce remained whole, there is a fix for that.
When Ganon is resurrected at the end of the the linked Oracle games, his subsequent defeat by Link is animated in such a way that one could interpret the "poof" effect as not necessarily an explosion, but instead as Ganon simply disappearing by "poofing" away, as though Link had sent him off to another world or realm inside which he'd be trapped and sealed until the time of his release near the end of ALBW.
Then, during the linked Oracle games' end credits, there is a scene where we see the three pieces of the Triforce separate from each other and transform into birds that fly off into the sky. This sequence could be read as the moment where the Triforce split, setting things up perfectly for their still being split by the start of ALBW.
Therefore, the legend of Ganon's sealing and the Triforce split given in ALBW would not only be so muddied by mists of time that it's misremembering the historical events of ALTTP, but that it's also conflating them with the resurrection and sealing of Ganon at the end of the Oracle games.
My dude, this is the best fanmade timeline revision I have ever seen. It makes a ton of sense. And it's honestly probably my new headcanon for the series. And as you said in the video, even Nintendo themselves prefer to leave the interpretation of the timeline up to the fans as they just want to focus on making amazing games and leave the connected story as an afterthought. Overall, this was such a convincing interpretation that I wanna see what other cool Zelda theories you have. You've earned a subscription from me, lol. Very well done!
Agreed! I subscribed after this too!
I usually disregard the Downfall Timeline as a dumping ground for games that where developed before the team made solid thoughts about a timeline (TloZ, Zelda II, AlttP, etc.) as well as their direct sequels (A Link between Worlds, Tri Force Heroes) but this work right here actually manages to incorporate these older games. Kudos for that.
It really does seem that way, which is bizarre, why are they so flippant about their oldest most iconic works?
This has got to be the best redesign of the timeline I've ever seen. Great Job.
I'm still a little uncomfortable with the idea that a timeline is started by a "bad ending", but your logic and reasoning is far, far better and cleaner than any official material we have been provided on the subject of a timeline. I can put up with that one gripe because of this! Thank you for all of the hard work and effort placed in this video! And I'm glad of the placement of BotW in the child timeline. It's always made the most sense to me, and has always seemed so so lazy to just say it "belongs to every timeline".
I mean yeah but the Fallen Timeline is also based on a bad ending, and one that isn’t even canon to the game lol
This is easily the best time line video I've seen for the series. The video itself was also well made and was great to listen to
This is my new headcanon timeline for Zelda. It's cool how Minish Cap and Ocarina of Time are the most important games in this timeline besides Skyward Sword, since OoT was my first The Legend of Zelda game and one of if not the first game I ever played, and Minish Cap was the first Zelda game I played to completion. It makes way more sense for the timeline split to be based on a game with multiple endings each with its own cutscene instead of being based on the possibility of the protagonist loosing off screen or something.
You guys did a great job on this, you've both earned yourselves a subscriber.
A split in The Minish Cap where you either succeed or fail instead of the usual OOT one where there's three splits (child, adult, or the hero dies)....Hmm, when you put it like that, it would make sense and it's an interesting way to fix this. Especially when you take into consideration about Ganon being in his demon boar form in Four Swords Adventures: You just got a new subscriber thanks to this and using some excellent evidence to back this idea up. By the by, I see Breath of the Wild as the one that brings the timelines together based on dialogue and species existing in the same point in time together.
I wouldnt include the evolution aspect unless your meaning the Loftwings evolved into the Rito instead of magically made from zora?
This...is the EXACT video I've been wanting for YEARS!!!
I'm glad the video is back up! Looking forward to listening to it again (and I agree with the person on the previous video who asked for an HD version of your timeline for printing...I totally want to put it in my Hyrule Historia as supplementary material!)
Here's the HD version! twitter.com/ZeldaLoreYT/status/1575531126113898498
you will find a link to google drive in the tweet with an even larger version. I warn you, it is massive
Wow this is going to be epic at an hour and 26! Looking forward to watching. It's like the Zelda History Channel :D
Hope you enjoy it!
I unfortunately had to reupload the video as it was fake copyright claimed... I would appreciate it of you shared the video ♥️
1:19:21
I wonder if this could be where EoW fits, with the "Might Sword" being the origin of the Master Sword.
Thanks for the excellent video. I will now use this as my personal head cannon for Zelda
I had a some points to call out that I disagreed with, but then you addressed them in the last couple minutes. Great job.
Already gave you feedback on the first video, but here again:
This video is a monster (in a good way)! Outstanding research of you all and awesome presented! 🙏
This is excellent. I had long had qualms with Historia's timeline, especially the placement of Four Swords Adventures, and this explains all my misgivings while presenting a beautifully functional alternative.
Ganondorf couldn't open the Door to the scared realm cause he was a bad musician
This is so fucking cool!! Ive been saying for years that even the devs try not to care too much about timeline and leaves it to the fans, but its really amazing to see a group put together the research and effort necessary to produce something like this. Honestly inspiring
As someone who grew up with the hyrule historia version of events, this is actually swaying my opinion! This is a very good interpretation of the timeline and really adds context to a lot of the 2D zeldas (which I wasn’t really familiar with). There’s something really satisfying with the split between the 2D and 3D branches.
What's actually amusing about this proposed third split solution is I actually did fail that the first time I attempted it because I didn't take it seriously (as in I thought it was faux tension)... what a pro gamer
Also this is the most compelling fan timeline I've seen since Lancun's back in the old days of TH-cam... well done!
I loved this and it’s probably the best adapted timeline video I’ve seen. A very well made video. You’ve included many ideas I’ve had but made me think of a few things I had overlooked. I hadn’t considered moving the origin of the fallen timeline to another game besides Ocarina of a Time.
I’m also really glad you mentioned something that almost every Zelda theory channel gets wrong… you mentioned stuff like Koroks and other people, events, places being seen in one timeline doesn’t mean they aren’t in the other timeline. Thank you! It drives me nuts that people ignore stuff like that. I’m an evolutionary biologist and think about timelines a little how I think of phylogenetic trees (cladistics, family trees etc). As you said, if you see something in one timeline and not another, it could mean it’s there but you just haven’t seen it or the game happens to not show it. But also things can vanish, be removed, be lost. Some might think the bridge from Twilight Princess isn’t in the adult timeline because the great flood occurred before it was built, but maybe it was built and it’s under the seas and we just never got to explore the entirety of Hyrule. Or maybe it was actually built but the great flood destroyed it. I don’t really care about the bridge and I’m not trying to prove anything specific. I just like when people point out that something existing in one game doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in other timelines.
I agree completley! Regarding what you said on "evolution" in the context of the differing timelines i have to point out the fact that by the Era in which the events of Breath of the Wild take place we see many species from across the 3 timelines who shouldn't be able to exist at the same time given the circumstances surrounding their evolutionary "ancestry" (eg: the Zora, Rito and Koroks). To this i simply have to point out that the very unification of the 3 timelines in Breath of the Wild implies the existence of 2 contradictory evolutionary stages to be the cause of *divine intervention* (eg: the Golden Goddessess) which either "willed" the evolution of the races in Hyrule so that the Zora would come into being in the Adult Timeline despite having fully evolved into the Rito or instead allowed some members of the Zora race to evolve into Rito in the Child and Downfall Timelines.
The ambiguous long timegap between the end of the 3 and the beggining of the Era of the Wild serves as a "canvas" with which players can suggest any possible divine act of "theistic evolution" by the Golden Goddesses in order to justify the presence of all the races throughout the 3 timelines without any fear of contradiction based on the narrative of a previous game starring a specific race.
For both the Zora and Rito to coexist, all that needs to happen is a group of Zora would venture out, meet Valoo and be transformed into Rito. We even see dragon bones near Rito Village which may indeed have belonged to Valoo (Dragon Bone Mire).
@@javiervasquez625 If you think about evolution in real life, a subgroup can begin to differ genetically from the rest of the population. It’s totally possible for the Rito to coexist with Zora and have evolved from them. It’s like how us humans evolved from fish but there are still fish in the world.
@@geneticjen9312 Agreed. Still it's more than likely that the evolution of all Life in the Zelda Universe was indeed guided by the Golden Goddesses as we know it was Farore who created all Life so that it would uphold the Laws established by Nayru after Din gave birth to the physical World. The fact that Farore created Life in tune to a divine plan suggests every step in the evolutionary tree to have been preordained by the Goddesses from the very beggining.
Awesome video! Extremely thorough in justifying some of the more contentious placements.
The split exactly at the game over screen in MC is a bit tenuous. Considering everything else that happens in between games, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to create splits also outside of games. We don’t always have to point to a specific in-game event that causes a split. And if it happens close enough to a game, before much has a chance to change, a single game could be at the start of 2 branches right after a split since the differences cascading between branches would not have had enough time to influence the story.
Just saying that to say, we shouldn’t take game overs as canon, and we don’t have to. It’s enough to say “there’s clearly a split somewhere around here” without needing an in-game event to explain it. That gives so much more freedom. Yes, you could argue then that the problem with that approach is that there could be 10 timelines instead of 1 and everything could be in its own timeline, defeating the purpose of trying to create a coherent one. But all you have to do is add the objective of wanting to create a cohesive overall timeline with as few splits as possible.
The BotW placement can be debated but if you take the position that timelines do not reunify, it is probably the best placement. We know from the adult timeline that the Zoras and human-Kokiri have the genetic predisposition to evolve into the Rito and plant-Kokiri given sufficient environmental pressures. All that’s required is for similar pressures to exist at some point in the child timeline and it’s reasonable they would evolve in similar ways. That at least takes care of some inconsistencies, but doesn’t explain others.
Anyway, great collaboration and great video!
I had a think about the reunification of the three branches.
The basic synopsis was that Ganondorf was revived and knew he didn’t stand a chance against Hyrule and the sheika tech during its peak (guardians, no Devine beasts yet). So he preformed a ritual which used his connections to the Triforce of Power, the curse of Demise, and the sacred realm to fuse his powers from each main branch to become a force great enough to obliterate anyone and anything in his way.
The unintended consequences of this was dragging the timelines along with his different versions, merging or introducing different versions of the races (some changed in appearance and some did not), and also monsters (lyonels and hinoxen appearing).
Naturally, this caused quite the stir in Hyrule, causing chaos and panic. And with the rite completed, the power Ganondorf summoned could not be contained to his physical container any longer, and he became, The Great Calamity Ganon.
From there you get the creation of the Devine Beasts and the United front from 10,000 years ago. (This was thought of before we were shown TotK in any greater capacity)
There’s probably a ton of flaws in this but I really like the concept of it.
Out of all the Legend of Zelda timelines, I have seen, yours makes the most f#*%ing sense.
This is an incredible fix to the timeline
That makes so much more sense, lore wise. Thanks for the amazing video!
This is my headcanon from now on. Really awesome observations!
Man I hope there's an update to this video soon!!! My head canon is still this theory combined with the hyrule warriors theory (I know it's not canon but the official hyrule encyclopedia literally said we can use our imaginations so will do lol) that explains how all three timelines are combined in the end to get to BotW! (I.e the reason theirs rock salt from the great flood, but also Lynels that only show in downfall, and the references to the child timeline)
Wow! This is a real piece of art and the best interpretation of the Zelda timeline I have ever seen! My compliments to you.
Great content ☺️ can really see another rabbit hole fan you guys are always the best
Another thing that makes sense is that the Twinrova are alive in OoA/OoS because you never fought them in the 2D timeline during the time when OoT was happening in the 3D timeline.
Love it!! Thanks for doing the work on this.
This was MASTERFULLY done! Watched the entire thing and can’t imagine how much thought went into this. Well done!
Thank you! This whole video took 8 months to make xD
I feel like that at some point the twilight may have found a way back to Hyrule and became the zonai with some of them living in settlements in the sky and others on the ground in Hyrule as the zonai. It would make sense for all the ruins in tears of the kingdom and why the Twili and zonai seem so similar but I guess we'll have to wait till next year when tears of the kingdom is released.
This is the most extensive and comprehensive timeline I've seen. Great job.
This just may be the ultimate timeline theory I've ever seen. To me, it makes so much more sense in this way rather than the official timeline, which has many contradictions
This was phenomenal!! Thank you for creating a timeline that follows cohesive rules and makes sense of ALL the "unexplored conflicts"! This is so awesome you guys!
This is the best Zelda Timeline video I’ve ever seen. Totally worth the hour and a half!👍
Thank you so much!
0:00 - Intro
3:58 - The Legend of Zelda
5:05 - A Link to the Past
7:26 - Ocarina of Time
17:51 - The Wind Waker
22:08 - Twilight Princess
31:20 - Spirit Tracks
32:01 - Skyward Sword
36:18 - A Link Between Worlds
42:13 - Breath of the Wild
51:59 - The Adventure of Link
53:46 - Link's Awakening
54:45 - Majora's Mask
55:42 - Phantom Hourglass
56:32 - Tri Force Heroes
57:29 - Oracle games
1:04:36 - Four Swords
1:05:40 - Four Swords Adventures
1:16:22 - The Minish Cap
1:19:06 - The unification of the two timelines
1:24:24 - The final version of the timeline
1:26:03 - Outro
we’re here to support you, keep moving forward
Thank you Andy!
Literally the best and most understandable video on the timeline, thank you so much for making this video it’s literally perfect!
This is the definitive version of the timeline for me. All the stuff with The Minish Cap and Vaati especially just makes so much more sense than the “downfall” timeline.
I genuinely hope this version gets more traction in the community! This is the most sensible timeline of events in my wholehearted opinion. The downfall timeline always sat weird with me and until this video, I'd subscribed to VortexxyGaming's idea that there had to be a specific point in OoT to cause it and not just any "game over" screen. This just fits so well and as far as I'm concerned is canon.
Also thank you for adjusting the Four Sword games. One of them being after Twilight Princess also always bothered me.
Seriously, this is a masterpiece! Can't wait to see your thoughts on Tears of the Kingdom and how it plays in!!
Nice work guys. It'll be interesting to see what kind of lore Tears of the Kingdom brings to the table.
1:20:35 Your split in minish cap is the same problem with the "hero is defeated" split. It doesn't fit with only one game able to have a split like this. Zelda splits should only occur if time travel is involved. OoT and use the time travel present in Skyward Sword that easily presents a split between present and past.
It's not the same problem. With MC there is a bad ending. With OoT there is no bad ending.
@@the_actual_lauren I disagree. I see your point that MC actually had a small cinematic if you lost at that particular point, but mechanically it still doesn't work. What sends link back to try again when he fails? What force is at work that both timelines exist? There is no time travel hinted at in MC, so only one outcome, sucess or failure, can actually happen not both.
@@PhoutianPhill Do both timelines HAVE to exist simultaneously? I'd argue not (especially since Nintendo themselves don't seem to think so) and I think that the fallen hero timeline following the bad ending of Minish Cap is much more satisfying and interesting than "what if Link died" in Ocarina. Not to mention the fact that the time travel in Skyward Sword can't explain a timeline split simply because that is not how time travel works in that game.
@@SpyWilliam123 why can't Skyward Sword explain a timeline split? There's no indicator in OoT on the exact workings on its time travel (song of storms paradox) yet it is widely accepted as adult and child timelines.
This must have been a difficult task to try to fix this timeline! It seems a bit more plausible for the timeline placement. Very well made video and thorough research. :)
At 50:46, that new mural in the HD remaster of Twilight Princess, is not canon. An artist who made that mural confirmed that it's not canon and that he added those other races because he thought it would look cool. Or something like that. He did apologize for any confusion it may have caused. One of the Zelda theorists talked about it in their video. Otherwise, this was a great video to watch.
That mural he said that he made without a story in mind. However, in-universe, that mural is now in Hyrule Castle, carved into its walls by the people of Hyrule. A story can definitely be written in the future to tell the events of that mural.
@@ZeldaLore
I guess that's true, that Nintendo could possibly go back and create a story based on that mural. But I dunno. It really depends on if Nintendo will go back to add more in-between stories. But who knows what the future may hold.
@@CoolBeanSoup anything is possible. And with Nintendo Studios and the release of the Super Mario Movie, who knows if they will make Zelda movies in the future.
@@ZeldaLore And tbh that mural happened during the development of Breath of the Wild which we know took over 11 years. It's not entirely imposible that he heard a rumour that both were appearing together in a game. I would also think that would LOOK COOOOOOOOL, imagine going wild with that idea pre-BotW. Would take my sleep away for sure.
The reall question is what happens if they adapt anything based off the official timeline.
Wonderful video and wonderful timeline lads. You guys really did your homework and came up with something clean and sensible. Good job. I especially like the idea of the Minish Cap split. I'm surprised I nor anyone else I've seen online have considered it yet. I get the idea that most games have good and bad endings but I agree that the Minish Cap has the biggest ramifications for it's endings. You guys truly covered almost every angle, it's impressive. Keep up the good work and have a good day. You've just earned a new subscriber.
glad you enjoyed it!
Watched it completely and gotta say that I absolutely respect the effort that got into it. Really well made and deserves to go viral across the Zelda Community. Thank you for the video :)
I appreciate it!!
The video has just now become the most viewed on the channel (and I mean literally just seconds ago xD) so it definitely is catch steam!!! :D
This is a calming, informative and enjoyable video. I appreciate the detail and research that went into it. Thank you
This was incredible and without question the most well thought out and well researched Zelda timeline video that I've seen. I have two quick thoughts.
1. I don't even think using Minish Cap to connect the timelines is even necessary. I think having the two realities makes a lot of sense. You nailed the origin of so much confusion which was OOT trying to be the imprisoning war but then changing way too much. I think similar to how GTA has the 3D universe and the HD universe, Zelda having the 2D and 3D universes also is pretty clean.
2. I'm VERY curious about the Oracle games developer quote you were not able to track down as that may be the most important quote in nailing down the timeline placement. As of now I actually lean towards the Zelda Encyclopedia placement with a new Link having an adventure after LA. The fact the Zelda doesn't know Link in OOX was a big point for me.
Incredible job guys!
1) I agree. honestly either works just as fine, that's why I started with the separate one first and then reconciled them (but it seems nintendo has always wanted all the games to share a common history)
2) we're still looking for that! trust me, its just a matter of time before its found. (in fact, on our search we've uncovered an interview from OOT where it confirms Ruto's mother is indeed dead, as well as there being female gorons which look identical to male gorons, and gerudo always having gerudo children regardless of if they have children with hylians. pretty cool stuff!). But yeah, that Zelda quote is certainly a monkey wrench. It seems to me they initially had no thoughts on where the games would be in the timeline, and later decided it would be a sequel to LA, and forgot to change that line of dialogue which made Zelda seem to now know Link.
@@ZeldaLore There's another minor detail that throws everything off with Oracle. While Twinrova is resurrecting Ganon, they refer to him as the "Gerudo King." Wouldn't that place the Oracle games after Ocarina?
@@justuswhite924 Ganon is always a Gerudo, even in Four Swords Adventures
Yooo I watch your stuff
I'll always find it funny when Zelda fans complain about the official downfall timeline, especially when their alternative splits are based on the exact same logic. Nice work though, a very well put together video. It's always fun to think about this stuff :)
Yeah and you know something they should have never complain about it considering this was originally supposed to happen because if I remember there was this thing In ocarina of time originally development link was supposed to lose regardless and that would have been a downer for the player so they went with a split so Nintendo really didn’t pull the downfall out there ass after all like most upset 😠 fans of the classic would think it’s was because of a retcon
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003 Do you have a source for that claim?
@@thatjrpganimefanplayerjusi8003 Source or you made it up
Also it explains the "dead" Link in TP.
And yes it's probably adult OoT Link after he failed to defeat Ganon, his dialogue and Equipment
@@ecanus-3605 OoT Link shown in TP is clearly a fully grown adult and has to have descendants for TP Link to be born in the first place. The only plausible placement is Child Timeline.
I love how my biggest take away is that if Nintendo just pushed back what created the Fallen Hero Timeline to something like Minish Cap (like you presented) shit would have made a lot more sense. It genuinely raises a chuckle out of me that the Zelda timeline works decently enough when you're just working with the original unified and child/adult timelines but everything goes to shit when ya gotta include the Fallen Hero one.
Probably the best Zelda timeline video I've seen. Congratulations on the video (I also subscribed as well😁) and I look forward to seeing more videos from you.👏👏
I just need the part of the timeline where we save Marin from being trapped as a seagull forever !
Such timeline doesn't exist because Marin is happy as a seagull because there's no reason for her not be a seagull because she's never gonna become a Human again ! :)
The 4-sword being able to split Link could also explain how reality splits in Minish Cap
Specially since Minish Cap is when the picori blade gets destroyed and the 4-sword is created
The split could’ve happened at the beginning, with the 2 timelines staying identical till the bell part, where they started differentiating
I love the games that are centered closest to the child/adult timeline split. Though events may change greatly at a nexus point in the timeline (Ganondorf is banished or executed), other smaller events will remain set in stone. Timelines or "World Lines" are still quite similar. So there are similar details like Ocarina's sages being Twilight Princess' sages. In Wind Waker, Ganondorf dies standing up because he is turned to stone, and in Twilight Princess, Ganondorf also dies standing up but due to sheer force of will. Either way, events between the timelines will still be much the same. This is essentially how Steins;Gate interprets time, as "world lines".
This is probably the most clear and easy to follow explanation I've seen regarding the Zelda timeline, especially after watching BDG have a full on meltdown trying to piece the games together. Great job!
Too bad since the release of tears of the kingdom
@@hoangnampham4928 I haven't gotten far into Tears of the Kingdom, but I'm curious how it will be reconciled into the timeline by the community.
Memories kind of shows the placement. And that form was debunked
*Finally, a substantial headcanon I can now treat as canon until proven otherwise.*
I would love to see an updated video with Tears of the Kingdom’s story and where the seen but not played conflicts takes place in the timeline.
I watched the full video. Whew! That was a lot of information to take in. I think it makes perfect sense for Vaati to cause the timeline split.
Considering the possibility that Vaati may be alive in Tears of the Kingdom as suggested by some theorists like Dr. Wily i wonder if he might still be sealed inside the Four Sword waiting to take revenge on either Link or Ganondorf as revenge for his inmprisonment.
@@javiervasquez625 That's a good question. If it did happen in Tears of the Kingdom, what would he look like in the style of Tears of the Kingdom/Breath of the Wild? And who would be his English voice once Tears of the Kingdom is localized to the Americas?
@@PrincessDreamActress My bet would be on someone like Yuri Lowenthall to fit his "affeminate" look from The Minish Cap. It would be so cool if Vaati showed up and tried to betray Ganondorf as ironic payback for using him for his own goals in the Child Timeline.
@@javiervasquez625 And it would be an irony too. How fitting it would be. As for me, I think...Zeno Robinson or Steve Staley. But I'm willing to be surprised too. As long as the voice sounds good for Vaati, I'll be satisfied.
Can you do an updated version of this with TotK & EoW?
@@tomrees82 I did do an update for TOTK.
But, currently, I am pressed for time and can't make videos. I will eventually though!
While I disagree with this timeline , not factoring in that there might be two splits.
And that splitting a timeline , in the future , works differently in the past.
I do respect the effort of going that far out of your way to solve this puzzle.
And it has given me a few notes for my own , thank you.
This video is my new Hyrule Bible
It actually makes way more sense for the continent of Hyrule to have been sunk by the Goddesses beneath the ocean rather than being flooded over. If the sea levels rose to cover nearly the entire land to that level then there really shouldn't be any other large lands. Unless New Hyrule's continent was 1000s of feet above the sea level prior
That's what I think. It sunk beneath the waves with a torrential downpour. A mix of Atlantis and the Genesis Flood.
@@ZeldaLore It also explains why some areas are above sea level despite not being mountain regions like the forest. The Great Deku tree was on flat forest land but a small area of the Kokori forest and lost woods were above the waves most likely being left by the Goddesses so as not to kill everyone
You know, years before the "Official timeline" came to be, I personally held agreeance with the typical split timeline theory. In most of those, Minish cap and the four swords games all happened before OoT.
So this timeline theory is very much something I can agree with.
There's another thing that confirms the fact that BOTW is placed after TP, and that's the place in the Faron region where there's a boar statue surrounded by 6 pillars (one fallen on the ground). The reference is clear: the boar represents TP Ganondorf and the pillars represent the 6 sages (with the fallen one being Ruto, the sage of water, given the fact that she's been murdered by Ganondorf)
Question: why did ruto look like a old white dude?
@@Greenlog12 Sometimes in real life, and often in fiction, it's common for executioners to wear disguises to protect their identity. I presume that all the sages in TP look like old white dudes because they are using magical disguises since they are taking the role of executioner.
I would agree if there weren't references to literally every game throughout the timeline, both historically or just as a reference.
Though I'm a downfall timeline believer, I'm pretty sure they made it clear the game happens at the end of all three timelines (as weird as that sounds).
Basically, they're saying given enough time _all_ versions of Hyrule eventually become Breath of the Wild. It's inevitable.
Bro let me continue and add on to your confirmation of child timeline 🏰 🌳
1 The castle the castle town is pretty much that of TP just bigger
2 The bridge of hylia is still there just longer
3 Lake hylia and it’s shap is still there from TP just with a Shine in it
4 The big broken tree and ruin village is literally Odin village you can even follow the entrance out to hyrule field and line it up with the picture entrance to twilight princess when looking at the castle boy oh boy is the Imaged shockingly staggering!!!!
5 You can still find kakariko village by death mountain which GUESS WHAT LOOKS LIKE TWILIGHT PRINCESS imaged from both entrances just in ruins
6 The mirror of twilight yes the only way for that mirror to be rebuilt as a statue monument is if the events of Ganondorf not ruling and him being banishment aka twilight princess
7 Calamity ganon face is literally that of TP ganon face put them together and boom the image is staggering
8 Zelda from her mouth skyward bond -
time drift
and
ember of twilight
Yeah sounds like
unified
timeline split
And
Child branch 🌳
To me hmm?🤨
9 TOTK references incoming
Ganondorf neck snap 🫰 just like how zant snap Ganondorf neck hmm?!
10 The green spiral 🌀 is pretty twilight like to me hmm?!
11 Oh yes I forgot someone has already spotted the twilight spirits of TP of what happeneds to people who pass into twilight in TOTK trailer?!!!! Like NO JOKE ITS REAL!!!!!
Oh yes Minsh wind tower could be in TOTK but I am not really going to reference that one to much because will it happened before the split so that tower
can resurface in all
12 Sky lore oh yes this one however can only really continue in one continuity
Haven’t ya noticed this hmm 🤨
Skyward sword skylore
Minsh cap skylore
After split only one other game before the 10000+ years had this skylore TWILIGHT PRINCESS
Here’s is probably the biggest one to reference the continuity to the CHILD branch TEARS 💧
Skyward sword had tears
Twilight princess’s had Tears
And
Now TEARS 💧 OF THE KINGDOM HAS TEARS and a physical GANONDORF AS WELL WHICH CAN ONLY WORK FOR THE CHILD
I rest my case
Never forget
Adult 🌊 Zelda flood
Child 🌳 link prosperity
Downfall 🔥 ganon destruction
But hey we will see come may 12 shall we am going to preorder my copy on march 1 my birthday
Look if the timelines did merged will fine but there is no denying if that does end up being official THE CHILD BRANCH IS THE MAIN BASES FOR THIS UNIVERSE
Peace out ✌️
This is amazing. My interpretation of the timeline is much different, but I learned so much that I didn’t know, and have a much better understanding. Much respect! Nice job!!
It's been a while since I first heard of Lorulean Historian's take on the placement of the Four Sword Trilogy. Been a fan of it ever since.
This is one of the best Zelda videos I have ever seen in my life. Holy cow.
I praise the quality of this video and all the effort that was put into it.
I personally lean more towards a timeline split caused by a time travel event happening somewhere between Minish cap and Skyward sword. Jack Six already made a good point that is very similar to my own thoughts so I don't think I need to explain more about them.
I suspect I’ll be visiting this video a couple more times during my play through of TotK
Congratulations for the AMAZING work, this video is a MASTERPIECE! I know for sure that I will rewatch this several times!!!
Excellent video and seamless timeline. Great work guys!
"But there are other cutscenes that show a bad ending. In Skyward Sword..."
*uggghghghggasdd grumble grumble* Do NOT remind me of that avocado. I only lost twice to him in the entire game, but it was the worst boss I had to fight, even more than Scaldera or Tentalus (those were fun at least, for the first time Zelda player that I am)
Very informed, very well researched and proposed, I like this timeline. We need more Vaati appreciation after all :3
this is very well put out. especially since i like watching zelda theories, one of which i had watched connected Majora's mask and twilight princess VERY strongly- and remembered that as you stuck all the pieces together!
Based on the year on the grave, the approximate year every game is set in is as follows:
0 - Skyward Sword
200 - Minish Cap
300 - Four Sword & Four Swords Adventures
487 - Ocarina of Time (Child) & Majora's Mask
494 - Ocarina of Time (Adult)
594 - Twilight Princess
894 - Wind Waker & Phantom Hourglass
994 - Spirit Tracks
1094 - A Link to the Past, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons, & Link’s Awakening
1214 - A Link Between Worlds
1217 - Triforce Heroes
1514 - The Legend of Zelda
1518 - The Adventure of Link
11,518+ - Age of Calamity
11,618+ - Breath of the Wild
11,623+ - Tears of the Kingdom
Only change you should make is that Majora's Mask is before Ocarina of Time (Adult) because Link is still considered a child in that game.
@@the_actual_lauren Thanks for catching that!
breath of the wild is much longer than 10thousand years later, 10 thousand years ago from breath of the wild is just when the sheikah were building mechs and stuff. in your dates, they would mean that happened in twilight princess.
breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom could be 100k or 150k years later in the future
Like it but Skyward Sword should be year 100+ since the ascension to the Sky hasn't happened yet. But it would be year zero in terms of the curse.
*4 major conflicts in between Four Swords and 4SA.*
Hyrule Historia: “Ahh, peace…”
Another detail supporting vaati starting the triforce war. The interlopers are depicted as dark links, and vaati just so happens to be wearing the same minish cap (haha get it) that link wears in ezero, making him look like a dark version of him
this is by far the best reconstructed timeline ive ever seen
I loved Zelda timelines back in the day before the official one. This was a blast form the past and yet interesting.
Very good, I personally believe that an unknown event or Hyrule Warriors merged the timelines and that eventually leads to Breathe of the Wild. The Ganon that causes this would be a ganon from the twilight princess timeline
This would also mean that Zelda in bad ending line is not of the Goddess Hylia, because Vaati absorbed her essence. Maybe a wish was made to bring back Hylia after the Adventure of Link, which leads to the good ending line replacing the old(bad ending) line?
This is a great video I always come back to ❤
Seriously underated video. I dont know how this isn't the official version given the evidence.
Love this video, watched it several times over. It does make sense, the Official Timeline I never had frustrating issues with but this I can believe. I honestly would be just as happy if this was the official timeline.
I saw the premiere, but I'm more than happy to watch it again.
thank you ♥️
@@ZeldaLore no problem