What Is Edgic, and How Do Survivor Fans Use It to Predict the Winner?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- What is Edgic, what are Edgic ratings, and what does it all mean?
/ idoled_out
Music: Silent Partner - New Tires
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:57 Rating
8:13 Tone
11:57 Visibility
13:20 Winners Edgic got right/wrong
17:29 How it fits together - บันเทิง
I did a lot of research for this episode, but as a casual Edgicer, I might've gotten small details wrong. Hardcore Edgic heads, feel free to (politely) issue any corrections here 😃
there is actually a "magic formula" used to calculate visibility! certain forums (such as unspoiled edgic) use this formula to determine visibility: (the number of sentences a player spoke during the episode) + (the number of confessionals x5) + (the number of tribal council questions x5). then people use each value to determine which players have a visibility rating of 1, 5, etc.
however, as you sourced your edgic charts from r/edgic, which does not use this formula and just uses judgement, this formula is not relevant to your video. however, I prefer using this formula over judgement because it offers a more consistent guideline for assigning ratings. it's more scientific, you could say. but, for the people who actually have to go through the episode and manually count the number of sentences each player spoke, for the sake of everyone else's benefit... it's probably very a tedious job lol. but I respect it.
pp is hardly ever seen
One part that confuses me is when the numbers for UTR are basically always 1 or 2, but in rare situations a 3. MOR is basically always 2, 3, or 4, but in rare situations can be a 1 or 5.
@@eagerturtle4791 in short: the level of complexity (aka the rating) does not directly correlate to the amount of screentime they have. ratings are dictated by the _content contained within that screentime._
a player can have a very complex, informative, CP-tier confessional, which eloquently explains their current position or even progresses their story, and then no other content whatsoever in that episode. that is a CP1 or CP2, which can happen.
an instance of UTR3 is a player who appears frequently through the episode, but their confessionals are so surface level and their camplife scenes so inconsequential that their current story or role remains static in that episode.
I believe a lot of edgicers actually don’t think cooldown episodes are good
Edgic occupies a transitionary place between fiction and nonfiction that I find really cool. With fiction, you can try to figure out where the story is going based on author tendencies and tropes (sort of edgic-like - eg. the main characters usually won't be killed, character arcs etc.) With non-fiction, events and characters are exposed to the real world and must prove 'viable' (no deus ex machinas IRL) and there's a realistic amount of randomness. Survivor Edgic takes non-fiction source material with the above characteristics and lets people analyze it as if there was an author behind it like it was fiction. I don't think anything like that existed before taped reality TV in human history.
The final product of Reality TV is a fictionalized presentation created from theoretically non-fiction source material. There *is* an author behind it, the person or people who design and assemble the episodes. We had this before "Reality TV" became a labeled genre. While documentaries are presented as non-fiction, creators will quite willingly manipulate, misrepresent, and even outright fabricate material in order to propagate and instill their desired belief and message into viewers. You also have material like the 14th century Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a historical novel accounting a history of 3rd century China, based on legitimate records, more embellished works, and a heaping dose of his own authorial intent.
The story is non-fiction but the story*telling* is fiction.
It's the same as making a war movie or other 'based on a true story' movie; the outcomes and broad strokes of characters are 'fixed' because Survivor doesn't pick winners and losers (and nor does 'reality' for war movies/etc.), but the *editing* can do some work post-script to frame things so that the winner is more heroic and the losers more villainous, etc.
I think a lot of non-fiction media in general does this. You can't really objectively tell a story, you can only objectively tell facts, and I would argue that a large majority of nonfiction titles about humans are narrative-based in such a way that they inherently require deconstructive analysis to gain insight from.
This is a great insight and I do think reality TV is unique in its fiction/non-fiction blending. However, I would argue all non-fiction is only remembered through stories and perspectives, so even the real history of the world is itself fictionalized.
@@KarenOfHouseLavender The saying "History is written by the victors" is a direct statement of such. Changing (or simply different) views also lead to history being 'reinterpreted', with various parts being emphasized, excluded, or recast.
Heck, different social, political, and religious views lead to people disagreeing over even pretty basic details of "the real history of the world", much less the more complex bits.
Idoled Out, I used to be a part of the early Edgic community. I feel there's 2 things you should have mentioned here. 1) Visibility if often determined by visibility charts that track the number of sentences, tribal council questions, and confessionals people get. 2) Edgic historically has been great at spotting CP winners, but has struggled a lot more with UTR edit winners. A lot of Edgic's biggest failures were UTR edits, like Bob, Danni, Natalie White. 3) Edgic these days has guidelines for different winner Archetypes. This could be a good thing to cover in a future video.
Visibility IS spoken about at around 12:15
Got reccomended this despite never watching Survivor, and it was really interesting! I bet you can apply this formula to a lot of reality competitions. Very cool.
absolutely! i dont watch survivor but thought u could do predictions in a very similar way for Rupauls. Theres enough spoilers that most fans who want to know the outcome will use those. I like the sport of trying to predict what will happen live and i use a very similar formula, just in my head and no math, just vibes.
"CP stands for...CALM DOWN MIKE SKUPIN!" Hahaha
“Do you wanna watch the news or make the news”
- Mike Skupin
That hit me wayyyyy too late hahaha
That doesn’t work out, what is the P in the CP
@@eastonburnor4018 what he was arrested for
@@eastonburnor4018 Rhymes with Corn
“Calm down mike skupin” bro 💀
a recent edgic miss that comes to mind for me is tiffany in 41. although most people thought she was winning because of the incorrect spoiler, there were many who thought she was winning because of her edit so basically everyone ended up blindsided by her eventual vote out. then people thought ricard, shan or evvie were winning because of their edit until we were left with the final four. of course this was before it became obvious that the editors were straying away from their typical editing tactics when it comes to the winners. based on erika and maryannes edits, i think the winners edit will now be more focused on their journey rather than how they won since erika and maryannes edits were heavily journey focused.
Its almost like edgic follows spoilers.
@@aro3275 i didnt see much of that until 42. there was the maryanne spoiler and it was pretty obvious people that knew the boot list were influencing edgic voting on reddit, but i dont think there was much spoiler influences in the edgic voting during 41 since the tiff spoilers were only out there for a few episodes before she got booted. there were people who legitimately thought tiffany was gonna win because of her edit alone who were just as blindsided by her exit as the spoiler followers were.
I’ve gotten super into edgic in like the past five seasons or so. I love a good color coded, acronym filled spreadsheet, and it adds a fun challenge to watching the show. Sometimes it ruins the show because one you start analyzing the edit, you can’t “unsee” the edit whole watching the episodes, but it typically adds to the enjoyment for me. I wouldn’t suggest following it for most viewers though, since most people aren’t psychotic like me and have survivor thoughts circulating through my head at any given moment
Also - the skupin joke took me out. i’m all here for dark and hilarious humor
I agree it can ruin the show, I knew 100% who won the last two seasons going into the finale or after the first boot in finale it didn’t necessarily ruin the show just ruined the excitement for final tribal council
Out of the last few winners how many people guessed correctly?
@@gengarcrobat1576 edgic actually did poorly the last two seasons, which made it really entertaining and interesting. mostly because maryanne was a super over the top character, which is really rare when editing winners, and erika was almost completely invisible until the merge, which is even rarer. in contrast, tony was very easy to predict by around the time of the merge, and tommy was the top pick from episode 1.
@@TheMurrmursonbottle I saw a video about winners edits and a big one that was only put in in editing was that whenever there was Dan controversy, Tommy was nowhere to be found even though I'm sure they asked him about it being that they were aligned
@@gengarcrobat1576 it’s a common thing for winners edits to hide them and decrease their visibility when they would otherwise look bad. tommy being hidden from the dan situation is a good example, but winners are often hidden in the edit when their alliance gets blindsided in votes too
"Woah, calm down Skupin" Lmao
Hey, I was wondering if you could do a survivor summer school episode about the origins, instances, and overall opinions on live tribal councils!! Love your videos as always
That's next week!
@@IdoledOut YAYYYY
Great. Im curious as if others hate them as much as me , lol.
I love getting extremely detailed glimpses into communities I didn't know existed. Seems interesting, even if I'm not that into Survivor, and I'm glad y'all are having fun :D
I genuinely thought Edgic was a portmanteau of Edge (of extinction) and logic. Like it was somehow logic based around how EoE played out to figure out who won. The more you know :)
edgic existed loooong before then
I thought so too!
It's pretty ironic, actually, since edgic utterly failed that season, but the casual observer could see Chris winning from a mile away just based on his EoE scenes, particularly reading his letter from home on the rock throne in the ocean.
Love this explanation! I've been hearing about edgic this edgic that. The whole time I thought edgic was a person and they spoiled the boot order.
WAIT HOLD ON MIKE SKUPIN
"CP, Wow, cool down, Mike Scoopen." Broooo 🤣🙊 I can't. Your casual sideslaps, that most viewers seem to not hear, are my faves in every video of yours!
Holy hell. I got started in the entertainment industry as a story editor and I don't think I've ever used a spread sheet to figure out character and story beats 🤣 Whole different breed, these folks.
the irony of Gabon being the season that defies edgic because of the chaotic train wreck the season was...man I love Gabon
Edgic by contrast got the equally chaotic Season 12 right very early on. Edgic often struggles to find more UTR winners, and has an easier time with CP winners.
Amazing explanation 😊
Thanks man!
Outstanding video. Well done. Keep them coming ❤
A really informative rundown of Edgic! Great job Idoled Out :)
I remember everybody freaking out in Gabon, yeah. However, I admit that since the early 2010s, I moved away from trying to see how people's Edgic went because I began noticing that a LOT of what I had seen was becoming "very thinly veiled spoilers".
The original Edgic community moved to their own board to try to control the influence of spoilers, with people reading spoilers and then using them to "predict" the winner, and also being clearly influenced by spoilers in their ratings of the winner. For example in episode 3 of Cook Islands Yul said like 1 sentence that was hard to even hear, but the edgicers who read spoilers all pushed heavily for him having an UTR rating (because an INV would have been a death sentence to his winner chances). There was some talk about that after the season and accusations thrown around about it. I used to be a party of the Edgic community for a while, I was actually the first person to suggest the M tone rating (which is also called "Dynamic Neutral").
Thanks for the explanation! I don't really watch Survivor, but I find fan analyses like these fascinating!
Thanks Idoled Out, this video was a major OTTP5!
Fantastic explanation, really appreciate it
Great video, thanks for explaining so clearly!!
The fact that I understood what the codes meant by the outtro of the video…. Such a great summer school teacher. 10/10
Thank you for posting the video.
Been a survivor fan for many years now and I have never heard of edgic. This was a great introduction!
Love the videos soooooo much!
WOW…This was an amazing video. I consider myself a hardcore survivor fan and I didn’t even know about this. Mind Blown ‘O’
this was fun! thank you 😄
I’m sorry but every time “CP” was said I got such VIOLENT whiplash
Never heard of Edgic, so thanks for the tutorial. I get all my Survivor education from you and Peridiam
Very informative! Thank you.
Really enjoying the Survivor Summer School series. Thanks!
Thank you for this explanation 🙏💯
I love studying edgic for each episode it’s such a waste of time but I love it
Same! I'm a sucker for a good chart/spreadsheet
I’m excited because this is finally a topic that I don’t know much about
LOVE THIS CHANNEL. YOURE THE BEST!
Absolute fire video
Hi! Would you ever do a summer school video explaining some of the most common players and seasons used as punchlines? Thinking Candice from Raro tribe & Wardog, Gabon, etc. Love this new series!!
ive never watched survivor and barely know what it is, but this was really interesting!
“calm down mike scupin” 😭😭😭 hell nahhh bro chill
7:48
Voiceover: Fillup in Survivor: Redemption Island
Video: Philipp's butt and Ashley's and Natalie's faces
🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a [student of the game], I got into Edgic almost immediately after watching my very first episode of the show. (Granted, I got into Survivor during MvGX, but still.) It also helps that I'm a media student, and editing, narrative storytelling, and writing are my bread and butter. Edgic for me, doesn't the ruin the show, it just makes it seem all the more like a grand mystery where I'm trying to find "who 'dun it?," except in this case, it's "Who won?"
At the end of the day, Edgic is the combination of editing and logic. The community doesn't always agree, so for anyone trying to get into Edgic, this is definitely a great video for the basics! Ultimately, it's about trying to get into the editor's heads, and at least for me, it's often added to my experience of watching the show.
very specific video topic to find randomly
Categorical modeling of reality TV is so cool! Great fanbase! I wonder two things for the future of this analytical method: 1) Can the parameters be reduced? Generally, models with a few strong parameters perform better than those swamped with many insignificant ones. For instance, is Edgic still accurate even if you just use tone x visibility? 2) Has anyone who worked on the show offered their opinions on Edgic? Perhaps the editors have their own model, and Edgic is simply a reverse-engineering attempt to figure out the same design.
Damn this is eye opening. I knew what edgic is and the idea and concept, but didn’t know there’s a community of people with codes and algorithms 😆
Oh wow, I never knew Edgic came with cute, color-coded spreadsheets, I might have to get in on this...
But for real, great video! I’ve always been curious about Edgic, tho I’m still not very sure it’s something I want to get into while watching the show live. Still, might give it a shot next season and take a peek at the subreddit, cause it does seem very fun (in a one-way trip kinda way!).
now I want someone to give warrior cat characters these ratings lol. In fact it seems like it'd be a useful way to categorize background characters in media in general if you're trying to plant a twist
"Calm down Mike Skupin" when I tell you I sobbed lmfaoooo
thanks, this is really interesting. I've gotten way more into Survivor recently and I'd regularly see "edgic" on Survivor forums and I had no idea what it meant beyond analysis made to predict who'd win. Cool breakdown. I wonder about is the edgic community generally unanimous on their ratings or are there regular disagreements about who the winner could be? Maybe it depends on which season.
It really depends on the season. Almost everyone knew Tommy was winning IotI, and by the end of the season came around Nick. In 41, however, it was a mess and no one really agreed (tho some guessed correctly it was Erika, it definitely wasn't unanimous)
I was dying at the Skupin part. You should explain the elusive MOMM1 lol
6:15 i was like "what" for about 8 seconds and then i screamed and ran to my pc to type this comment
why i continue to post comments on your videos from this channel and not my survive indiana channel will never be clear
Me: *chilling, eating my pizza*
IO: "the next rating is CP, CALM DOWN MIKE SKUPIN"
Me: *proceeds to choke on pizza*
any advice on getting more involved in the Edgic community? I loved this video!
I started watching Survivor when it first came out when I was 5 with my grandmother. Never missed a season or episode. We were usually able to suss out the winner within the first episode or two. I do think there's a pattern to it but I really don't think it's that complicated to figure out to be honest lol
never seen this show before but this is really interesting..!
Does anyone think of their coworkers in terms of edgic, or is that just me? Like, I might have to deal with an asshole at work, and will decide that my interaction with them was very OTTN4.
So interesting!
I need more content plzzzz its like a drug
6:14 it wouldn’t be an Idoled Out video without at least one Micheal Skupin joke.
2:37 Thanks for saying it right
I recently started binging each season starting from 1, and I noticed a trend pretty early. I mentioned it to my wife, and she thought I was crazy. But by episode 4-5 of each season, I could almost always tell who would be final 5ish. And started telling her who would be at the end, and she started to believe me after a while lol
And now I need to show her this video
Update on her reaction to the video?
The flaw in this design shows in Gabon.. bc they will give a "winner's edit" to anyone they think the fans will particularly love. They played Marcus up as much as possible bc they knew everyone would love him and obviously that sort of thing is good for ratings lol
Justice for purple Kelly
Just curious what you think of Amanda’s fit in this? I see her as either UTR, MOR, sometimes N, 3-4.
No way this man just said "calm down Mike Skupin" LMAO. That caught me so off guard.
havent watched sinve like season 1 but this could be neat
So when did this start? If it’s based on past trends you would have needed a few seasons under your belt before you could crack the code. What was the earliest point at which it was possible?
Survivor editors are gonna watch this video and say “We’re gonna give ___________ a CPN3 edit for episode 8”
I was in fact moved to tears when penner left
I have seen this in Peridiam's Discord and I've always wondered what the heck that is LMAO
I love Edgic and following it! It was extra fun in 41 and 42 but I get why it’s frustrating or takes the fun out of the season
I get irritated when I run into people who are so pleased with themselves over having guessed the winner that they don’t consider whether that winner was satisfying. You picked out Tommy while the rest of us were so bored by him we kept forgetting he was there. Great. Can we please admit that there was no joy to be had in watching him win?
It’s like watching a sporting event with someone who cares more about the bet he or she placed at the casino than about being a true fan. Actually it’s worse than that because I can at least understand the financial incentive. Maybe someone who only cares about a fantasy league would be a better analogy: only caring about being proven right.
Of course I don’t mean to paint you with that brush, but there are definitely such people out there.
sami from season 43 is a cp. We learn alot of things about him each episode, such as:
Hes 19, hes 19 and hes 19, don´t forget that he´s 19 annddd.... hes 19
Another comment about stew but I couldn't really fit into the videos theme but I still haven't let it go
literally never seen Survivor but i watched this entire video
What do the colors mean, and can you give and example of a player with wildly different rating and visibility, because they sound similar to me and I’m not quite sure what the difference is
colors mean nothing on their own. each rating/tone combination has a different color, just so it’s easier to read an edgic chart. each person typically makes their own edgic chart, so the colors will vary based on whose you’re looking at.
visibility and rating are often somewhat correlated but still different characters can often have low visibility but CP content. for example, someone could have a 3 level visibility and either a MOR or CP rating, depending on their content. MOR if they’re just generally narrating conversations and plans they’ve been a part of and maybe offering some surface level strategy thinking, and CP if they offer a lot of insight into their plans and offer a lot of thought. if a contestant has one good, long confessional in an episode that talks about their position in their tribe, who they want to align with/target and why, and maybe a reference to their personal life, then they’ll likely get a “CP2” rating as they got complex strategic content despite only having one confessional in an episode. generally, characters can’t be CP1 or UTR5, though.
why did i watch this whole thing even though ive never seen survivor in my life 😅
TH-cam threw me a curve ball with this recommendation, but I'm not complaining.
I knew people would look at the hints and try to predict the winner but I never knew it was called Edgic
6:15. DAMN that joke had me laughing 😂
"Calm Down Skupin" i died ☠️
I wonder how systems like this would work for other competition shows like Drag Race or Hell's Kitchen.
that skupin joke literally made me gasp out loud 😭😭😭😭
not to be confused with: *edging*
Commenting for the algorithm
I really wish you would have touched on Erica’s analysis
I was browsing reddit today and saw something about edgic in my feed and had no idea what it was talking about. Meant to look it up later but completely forgot and now your video appears in my feed. What are the coincidences?
that mike skupin joke was so out of control 💀
i’ve never heard of edgic- i’ve never even heard of survivor. why was this recommended to me?? not complaining, though. it was nice.
Survivor is a live-action version of Total drama Island
this is so interesting bc this could 100% be applied to top chef😭but honestly with top chef the edit might even be more obvious
can I just say… I love Pearl Islands
6:16 I wasn’t ready 💀
And then Maryanne had a lot of OTT on the edgic subreddit this year lol
the survivor fanbase is so lucky their seasons dont get spoiled months before the season airs. rupauls drag race fans cant relate
"In the annuls of great American disasters: Titanic" I guess the movie is but the ship was British I think?
Do you think this works for Total Drama Island as well?
Great video, very informative! Just a tiny nitpick: How is the Titanic an American disaster? It was a British ship operated by a British company that sunk in international waters on it's maiden voyage.. Other than its destination and thus obviously having American passengers on it, it has literally nothing to do with America...
People talk about it in America quite a lot. I'd assume it's due to the fact that, although it was registered as a British ship, it was technically owned and funded by J.P. Morgan. Morgan had a huge and lasting impact in American economical history to the point where at least 30% of my American Enterprise college class was somehow related to him.
i played an org and my last 3 "episodes" were all given ottn3 or higher lmao apparently i suck at survivor (i was mayor of ponderosa 🤪)