You guys have no idea the extent we went through to raise Stoneheart from her watery grave. But now she has awakened to seek her vengeance! Apologies for the slightly lower quality in this episode we have severe rendering issues with this one! I apologize for the slightly blurry quality of this one.
Jon can just warg himself back into his body. Or just puppet the body From Ghost. Mel isn't needed really. But I love how George specially says that his heart isn't beating and his blood isn't flowing. Because that's means no Jon/Danny Baby Thank you God for that. Quin the Cousin killing thing was a show only invention
This would fit into how he seems like he thinks that there is nothing that he cant predict or will. Chaos is a ladder but his ladder is going to fall when undead Catelyn aims her hate and vengeance at him. I don't think George is going to let any of his characters actually become the Gods they want to become.
@@Actiomedey yeah, but with show restrictions and all, it seems like keeping Michelle (fan fav) interacting with characters that are already introduced would have made more sense than a half assed Dorne or Iron Islands. I agree fAegon might be more important to the endgame, but it would have taken a lot of work just to introduce it
The show went out of its way to make Cat likable. In the books... she's not. That woman fucks up everything she touches. Reading her chapters is ilke reading Cersei's; they're both really stupid people who think they're really smart.
praetorxyn does she fuck up everything tho I mean she makes dumb decisions she’s clearly very impulsive but unlike Cersei she regrets some of her dumb decisions like taking Tyrion where as Cersei thinks she always right and that nothing is her fault and it’s just because she doesn’t have a cock
The sad detail about Lady Stoneheart's appearance is her damaged hair imo. The Tully auburn hair are said to be beautiful in the books iirc, and she has lost even that - it's very interesting considering the sociological importance hair tend to have, especially for women. We even see it in-story with the Dothrakis and their bells in the braids, or the Meereenese styling their hair in extravagant shapes. But even one of Catelyn's prettiest physical attributes, her beautiful auburn hair, have been lost. I don't why, but this part of her physical description really saddened me the first time I read it. Now, the only thing that really allows other people to properly identify her as Catelyn Tully is her hatred of the Frey and Jaime. There's nothing else. Damn thinking about it all makes me tear up, it's so depressing. Edit: regarding her children, she also embodies the motto of her own family: Family, Duty, Honour. The guilt you suspect would be clearly tied to that: she could perceive a personal failure in her duty to her family, which led to a dishonorable death. Even though she repeatedly warned Robb about Walder Frey, and was furious when he broke the arrangement they had with the Frey, because she knew it'd mean bad shit for them.
robbs biggest mistake was that he hadnt said "mayhaps" as he and cat had to deal with walter frey. the importance of mayhaps can be found in acok in a bran pov.
@@anne-kathrinhohlig1466 interestingly enough, when Walder was asked by Robb for guest rites, he answered "some salt and bread, mayhaps a sausage". You couldn't be more right.
"they had so many opportunities to show [lady stoneheart] in the show" and instead D&D pissed all over the fans and GRRM's story by showing the Hound literally pissing into the river. smh
If you watch really carefully, you can *see* Catelyn on the show as Lady Stoneheart, once and not by face. She’s in the background crossing the archway when Bri and Arya are at Winterfell sparring.
@@klljjza8803 its not, its ,littlefinger spy at winterfell, someone e made this comment last year on a A soiaf channel and it was debunked straight away,, I thought it might of been a little Easter egg but its not, sorry
Well, Technically he is the reason that his cousin Cleos Frey dies. Even if he didnt intend it. Cleos warns Jaime multiple times to keep his voice down, and Jaime ignores him, leading to the ambushers getting the drop on their party, and resulting in the death of Cleos.
No but he jokes about the unfortunate (pretty hilarious) way he was killed, and then says he has more than enough cousins left when called upon his remarks. So his character was definitely capable of fucking ending Cleos if it earned him a chance of safety and Cersei's twat back
@Targaryen Dynasty never? Tyrion is pretty much convinced that Jaime would kill lancel as soon as he returned to King's landing. Jaime also shows little regard for wider family members like cleos frey.
@Targaryen Dynasty I'm just saying that early story Jaime is generally absolutely indifferent to the lives of anybody he has no close connection to. He casually orders the murder of ned stark's guards, and personally kills jory with never a moment of regret, all because it serves his purpose in that moment and because he wanted to make a point. Would that extend to wider family members that he has no connection with? I don't think it's a massive stretch.
Martin made a blog post a day or two ago saying he's in his mountain cabin writing right now, not going out in public anymore. He said, in his own words, that he's spending more time in Westeros than the real world right now. That is a total silver lining on this pandemic situation.
GRR Martin has lost ALL interest in the Ice and Fire series, deeming it spoiled beyond redemption by the show. His interest is almost solely in the prequel novellas set in Westeros... I think his contract with his publishers may end up only being fulfilled by writers his Estate Executor hires...
I agree: I think Jaime will be used to capture Riverrun or, perhaps, gain entry to the Twins where mass carnage will ensue. There, maybe in the chaos of Lady Stoneheart's massacre of the Freys, both will escape or Lady Stoneheart will expire. Also, in the forums online, most people have pointed out that Ice was melted down into two swords: Oathkeeper (Oathbreaker/False Friend) and Widow's Wail--which seem to be symbolical linked to Ned and Catelyn Stark respectively.
Yes, i agree. Also it would make sense to send someone after Sansa I think in the end ir will be Nymeria who ends with Stoneheart and Melissandre who gets stabbed in the heart to light Lightbringer.
I need to read again the books and erase the show from my memory. Thank you so much guys for this series. I am so excited for the new book WoW. I hope we can read it soon :)
@@tylernelson4901 a clash of king my favorite,dance of dragon is very close but it second for me the storm of swords is third the game of throne then finally a feast for crows is last for me
Can't wait to see the North story lines represented by this series of predictive videos. The videos thus far have been awesome, but I've definitely most been looking forward to Stannis and the Battle of Ice, Mance Rayder, Wyman Manderly, the rescue mission on Skagos, etc. Winterfell right now is at least as intriguing as Old Town and Meereen, at least in my opinion.
Snakie same. I’m biased as fuck because he’s by far my favorite but I really feel like Stannis is one of the biggest wildcards for the series, right up there with Euron
If I’m not mistaken Brienne’s arm is broken on top all the other injuries sustained with biter. Not sure how her character Arc can continue in the time frame we have left, I think she’s on the chopping block, somehow dying for/in place of Jamie. GRRM will be cutting POV’s to condense the story for ADOS.
I wonder if Dondarrion's final act wasn't selfless or merciful at all, but what he thought was a way to escape. But what if he was wrong? What if instead of freeing his soul he is now trapped with what ever was left of Catelyn to create Stoneheart, a soul consuming eternal flame that grows more powerful every time it enters a new host?
Oh My fucking God I love that! Have you seen lml's last video Dragomorph? What if the thing they transfer is really a firewyrm parasite! Feasing on their souls and flesh alike!
Human bites are disgusting.. my grandpa had a bite on his arm from decades ago and it would still flair up or break out randomly. Don’t bite people it’s gross.
Jaime is the lion of the prophecy. He will be put to the sword (Oathkeeper). The valonquar is Tyrion. Eventually, Arya will kill LSH with it out of pity, and it will light up.
This series is so dope. Normally not my type of thing to watch but I've watched every episode within hours of them coming out. Amazing job guys you should definitely team up more or even make a joined channel
@@krisp5735 Jaime killed both the Karstarks sons in battle, and a Hornwood as he fought his way to Robb. So in the show Jaime does that, and kills his cousins, and as it happens he didn't even fight Ned in the books, he rode off. Killing his cousin and attacking Ned out of vanity in the show really changed Jamie's character, makes him seem way more evil, but they redeem him... Only for him to fall right back to where he started completely relapsing before he dies. It's fucked. I can't seen Martin writing those words, no Jaime's show end is the same as his book end.
As soon as Stoneheart failed to show up in season 4 I knew GOT was doomed. No exaggeration. To make such a colossal error as to cut what is by far one of the most extreme, wondrous, and earth-shattering twists in the entire story is inexcusable and immediately revealed D&D to be sub-par showrunners
imagine how good it would have been, seeing Michelle in that makeup after a full YEAR of thinking she was dead and gone (i mean, i knew about stoneheart at that point but a lot of people had no idea). i have no idea why they cut her, their excuses seem so flimsy. she’s absolutely incredible, and i would have loved to have Michelle back, even as a far more silent figure. she proved how much she can do with body and face alone.
Stoneheart's inaudible speech, as a result of her throat being slashed and therefore needing the Brotherhood to translate, can be contrasted with the Other's speech who sound like crackling ice and therefore bringing it back to the theme of Fire and Ice.
Love this so much and the stone heart arc. I will say the bit about her hair being cut is also a typical trauma response. Your mind typically goes to something frivolous to divert from what's truly happening. It's possible she went to that place of what Ned loved about her to preserve some part of her sanity which is why shes able to laser focus on who has wronged her when she comes back. Stone heart is callous but she does her vengeance in a very calculated and thought out manner.
I've read this series so many times, and I have genuinely never thought about the fact that the Brienne that turns up in Pennytree might be a wight! Honestly blew my mind. Great video, guys!
@@DavidLightbringer Hung is used as the past tense/participle of hang for everything but in reference to a person being killed via hanging which is when you should use hanged.
It would definitely be a very Arthurian nod if Azor Ahai (whether that be Jamie, Brienne, or another character) had to pull "lightbringer" from Stoneheart's stone of a heart to set it alight. I could definitely see GRRM doing that. As, you said, she is a fire wight now and Beric could set his sword on fire using his blood. Plus it was said that Nissa Nissa's "blood, soul, strength, and courage" all went into lightbringer to light it aflame. If Stoneheart was killed I could see her passing on her "kiss of life" and fire to the sword. I do hope that she gets the knowledge that her children are still alive before that happens though. I could see Stoneheart even sacrificing herself if she knew that even one of her children were alive and lightbringer would keep them safe.
i had never even considered that… that’s such a cool idea. there are so many great ways for Lightbringer to be forged, i genuinely can’t wait to see where it actually goes, and hoping he’s not going for the super obvious “jon kills his aunt-lover” (blech)
Man this channel is churning out content left and right. I can barely keep up! Keep up the good work guys. I'm so glad I discovered your channels after the show ended. I felt kinda burned by the show but after seeing your analysis of the books, it got me to read them gaining a better appreciation for them.
The only outcomes I can see coming are all 3 living or Stoneheart dying. Jamie and Brienne have too much left to do. Jaime still needs to kill Cersei and Brienne needs to live so she can write Jaime's entry in the White Book (I know that was a show thing, but that seems too perfect for the romantic Martin to pass up).
@@opqrrg If that happens I'm throwing the books into the fire. Jaime has grown too much, became too much of a better man to just go back to Cersei. Unlike in the show, book!Jaime never fully realizes who Cersei is, like he's in full-on denial and he distances himself from her as soon as he opens his eyes to who she really is - "the Queen o' Whores"
oh my god that intro gave me PTSD from the intro to "The Bells", you know that pathetic tactic they used to try to convince us that it's totally within character for Daenerys to murder a million innocent civilians for no reason whatsoever. It made me shudder.
They did my Dragon Queen so dirty! Jon should have been a snack 4 Drogon. Her burning King's Landing was so unlike her and that stupid speech! I felt bad 4 Kit and Emilia when they read the script. He was driven 2 drink. What he did wasn't honorable! The worst thing U can be in Westeros is a kinslayer and Queenslayer.
When Stoneheart (Catelyn’s corpse) is floating down the river, the passage says the “(R)eeds bowed down”. Do you think this implies House Reed may eventually come to a call or swear swords for Lady Stoneheart for some cause in TWoW?
I don't think so honestly. Lady Stoneheart is singularly focused on getting her revenge on Houses Frey and Lannister, especially Frey, and House Reed has nothing to do with any of that, they have no reason to get involved in that conflict, especially for a dead woman. A woman who, it's worth noting, wasn't even actually a Stark, but a Tully who only married into House Stark. I don't think Stoneheart will ever have anything to do with anyone in the North again. She's a walking abomination so she can't ever come out into the open and no house is ever going to follow her. I think House Reed will become important in the future, but it won't have anything to do with Lady Stoneheart. I think that line about the reeds was just what it looks like, just a line. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Yes, Jon probably did that. But wasn't the biggest problem with warging that if you stay in the animal you are warging for to long, it can alter your own mental state, even going as far that one might forget you were a human and not an animal. I think Jon will be like LS and be a very transformed character when we get to see him again.
I’ve only read the first two books (I’ve seen the entire show)and you two are making me want to continue on NOW. I don’t want to be like everyone else and wait for book 6, damnit! Quit making awesome videos.
I love the wolf POVs as well. Jack London actually did that pretty well also, telling the story from an animal’s viewpoint. White Fang is a really great, quick read.
I actually see stoneheart as the plot twist after the plot twist. I would never have imagined that cat would be reborn like this pure hatred. I would love to see lady stoneheart and Arya team up in the river lands
Desu that would be so bad, like some sort of buddy cop movie. She's a zombie filled with hatred and with a damn big throat cut, arya should mercy kill her on the spot.
Loved the idea that Breanna the beauty is secretly already a wight. What would be really cool is if they don’t reveal it till way down the line when she is fighting the others or something and something happens where she should have died but you find out she’s safe because she already died or something probably something to do with the cold
One thing I would like to see is when Cersei is retreating back to Casterly Rock (Aegon takes the throne from her and she's smuggled out of the city by Qyburn) her escort is ambushed by the Brotherhood in the riverlands and Cersei is in the presence of Stoneheart (Jaimie is imprisoned by the Brotherhood at this point) then Stoneheart forces Jaimie to choose who dies Brianne or Cersei.
We learn in the Varimyr chapter that the "soul" leaves the body upon death, seems to me that the wights are the body without the "soul" that is reanimated, and with the fire wights it's their fiery emotions that animates them, and that is why they are lesser and lesser. It's like the emotion stays and calls the "soul" back, but the longer the body has been dead the more the "soul" has become a part of the world. Could also be why the kiss of life doesn't always work, unless some big burning emotion is there, there is nothing to animate you. Ps. I think the show has muddied the waters a lot, we are told by Thormund that every night new wights are raised from those that die of hypothermia or starvation/sickness, but I really doubt that white walkers are going through the camps raising people. I think that it's a remnant of the magic that created the white walkers that is raising the dead. It also seems to be related to proximity,it's more potent now, but it's implied that the dead rose even when the white walkers were inactive.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't think Jon's resurrection will be the same as Beric's or Catelyn's because Jon hasn't actually died; his consciousness has transferred to Ghost. Catelyn and Beric were completely dead, consciousness and all, and were reanimated. But Jon is still there, he's just in his wolf. So I think it will be different with him, I think he'll retain more of himself.
I think you are right, Jon won't be the same, it's gonna be interesting to see if that will affect his body, or it will be the same as Berricks. No healing, fire blood and so on.
her description is so haunting and it really reminds me of a weirwood, white skin with eyes crying blood and a blood smile - a slit throat can be known as a blood smile, and the description of slashing her throat "ear to ear" invokes images of a smile. also the fact that she is the walking personification of hatred may be a bit of foreshadowing of how the weirwoods and the gods they draw from truly feel, considering blood raven thought euron to be a decent choice for wizard school I don't think they're particularly moral
I honestly don't know why, but I'm picturing Lady Stoneheart storming Riverrun with the Brotherhood Without Banners being a lot like Anakin storming the Jedi Temple with the 501st. - both got hoods - both are driven by hatred - both are storming the place they knew of as home for many years of their lives - both become dark shadows of their former selves All we need is Jedi Temple March playing, and you've got a spectacular visual going on lol
I like to compare Catelyn to Anakin and Jon Snow to Sasuke, a golden boy or girl and a outcast with an god-like bloodline growing more and more ruthless and violent due to the trauma and losses they went through!
So I just realized how much Brienne's fever reinforces her as a "Good Other" archetype, which makes me wonder about how negative her arc could be moving forward. So much of Brienne's story is about keeping oaths, and now she's in a conflict of oaths: her oath to the living Cat to bring back her daughters, her oath to Jaime to do the same, and now a potential oath to Stoneheart to kill Jaime. I wonder if bringing Jeyne Westerling could soothe the savage beast in Stoneheart---appease her enough to make sure that Brienne doesn't fully undermine her former oaths to Cat and Jaime. I do think that at the end of the day, Brienne will be an oathkeeper, like her sword, it just may come about in an unconventional and kind of heartbreaking way. But I'm concerned for what's going on with her and Jaime.
It's interesting how suddenly Jamie and Brienne both have experience with conflicting oaths and are genuinely troubled by how to uphold them. Sir Barristan's experiences with oaths and his "good other" symbolism are also worth considering!
Yay back with audio. I think they'll force them to have a trial by combat. A little proxy war that George loves so much. There will probably be a situation where a third force comes upon the cave. That forces them to scatter. All the Crown aligned forces are hunting for them.
Nice, It is amazing how you fluidly interact guys! I always repeat your content and now I get the idea from this talking. First time hearing the background on how Brienne, Jaime and Lady Stoneheart may get a deal
Thank you guys for delivering this high quality content every day. It’s been a well needed distraction from all the coronavirus induced anxiety I’ve been having, not to mention refreshing my brain for WoW.
the epiloge in a storm was one of the best things i have ever read.. catelyn is one of the best and smartes Pov characters in a storm.. she know how the politics work, how the people work
Great deep dive into Stoneheart , certainly one of many omissions with the show that I did not care for , especially such a horror element that GRRM likes to include and just a super intriguing character / arc overall. Definitely will be interesting to see where we go with LS , personally I do not think at their next encounter between LS , Brienne & Jaime will result in any deaths , I just think they all have their own arcs to fulfill a bit further before any type of interruption. Clearly in LS' perspective it does not look good , most of the optics with Brienne and Jaime which I think will result in a quest of proving worth and loyalty. And It does seem much more likely and satisfying that LS will be the one to exact vengeance upon the Freys , just works much better than any other possibility. In terms of her purpose and arc , it does not seem to go much further beyond revenge on the Freys and learning of her children' fates , most of which should be alive and accounted for upon her hearing it , at which point it will be interesting to see how her arc ends. I personally do not subscribe to this she will just fade away once she knows her children are okay theory that some perpetuate. Of course it would be dark and twisted although could be construed as "mercy" and Arya is on the dark and twisted path anyway if she is the one to kill Stoneheart but even for Arya that is a bit extreme. Personally hope it comes from Jaime and Brienne hatching a plan and slaying LS together with their Valyrian steel swords in a figurative reforging / coming together of Ice , that could be an interesting and poetic way if it transpires in such a manner. Either way , very curious and eagerly anticipate to see how LS' arc unfolds in the books and for me it does seem she will have to be taken out at some point , as she is and will further become an out of control abomination that will need to be stopped.
(@ 27:00) Catelyn would also feel guilt for pushing Eddard into letting Sansa marry Joffrey and into becoming Robert's hand... her ambition and impulsiveness destroyed the Starks (like Cersi with the Lannisters).
The tragic thing is, If she stayed in Winterfell when Tyrion made a visit, she could've asked him about the Valyrian dagger and the catspaw mystery would be resolved without misunderstandings or bloodshed!
Agreed, I've always wanted/hoped that Lady Stoneheart would be the one to deliver retaliation/vengeance to the Freys + Boltons....bc holy 💩 how epically terrifying for them would that be??! What if Stoneheart is the reason Jaime is compelled to eventually kill Cersei? 😯 (I believe Jaime to be the valonqar, not Tyrion)
So who is the little sibling in the show? Who killed Cersei? Dani is the best candidate, if you go by the show, alone. Remember, valyrian has all those gender neutral words.
I want Arya to meet Stoneheart, i want her to realize what hatred and wish for vengence does to people. Then i want her to kill her mother out of mercy, give up revange, and lead brotherhood.
Agreed, except, not out of mercy. But because the Brotherhood Without Banners took someone from the Many-Faced God. She sets that straight, and in exchange, expects that the remaining names on her list will be saved for her to cross off with Needle. So, not giving up revenge by a long shot. The Brotherhood might follow her, and she might tolerate that because while they are behind her, they cannot get in her way.
Ocean Pacific I think that would be a moment of constructive, rather than destructive, interference. Though it would certainly bring about plenty of destruction. First of all, upon the Freys. That might take urgent priority over sending R’hllor’s wight back to the Stranger who found her in that river.
I think Thoros will save Jamie. He is very clearly not comfortable with what the Brotherhood Without Banners has become. And there's already a sign his disagreement with this has cost him. He was Berrick's right hand. Now he's the dungeon guard? And Lemoncloak seems to be Stoneheart's right hand. He and Jamie know each other reasonably well. Jamie was by Robert's side constantly and Thoros was Robert's favourite drinking buddy. If Thoros believes Jamie has changed, even if Stoneheart doesn't, he might get him out at the cost of his own life. And think about it, who would know that maze of tunnels better than Thoros, a founder of the Brotherhood?
Omg! Yes! The quarantine just got more manageable. All this talk about Lady Stoneheart makes me think about how Jon will be if/when he comes back! Just saw the part where you guys mention you're making a video on Jon! Sweet!
Thanks for putting these brilliantly informative videos together, guys! So many things I've forgotten about which means that I MUST go back and read the books again. Only frustrates me so much how D&D couldn't even think to bring some of these ideas to the screen. So f'n short-sighted they are! 😡 Show could still be going too!
I think you've missed the trust part. Like how Stoneheart would even have a change of "heart" and give Jaime a quest. She's not Cat that have logic. She's an avatar of vengeance. I can't possibly imagine how Jaime will get out of here. Maybe he could get out (un)alive? I like how you've mentioned Thoros could be the wild card. If the fires reveal that Jaime is needed in the coming great war, maybe... just maybe. There is hope for him.
I'm just starting book 4 so I feel I'm really diving into a very different lore from the show. Seems book 4 is where things start to really change. Pumped to see what happens with Lady Stoneheart!
I can't wait 4 TWOW so many questions can be answered that weren't in the show! 2 many potholes 4 me! I think we will see her through Brienne or Jaime's POV.
I dig the editing at 5:00 in especially those of us that have heard your tangents before. Not hating I just thought that was so funny because I literally said here we go. I really appreciate the content. Much love LmL
Looking forward to reading your book, Quinn. Just ordered mine last week. I've always wondered if Melissandre passes the fire of life to raise Jon. Hopefully, GRRM will include more about fire wights the next book, WoW Again, David and Quinn, Thank you for the content.
If she had stayed in Winterfell, or even done any of the 5 commands Ned gave her when she left King's Landing, perhaps none of this would have happened. She must feel guilt over that.
Didn’t they miss the most obvious foreshadowing in the scene where Catelyn gets pulled out of the water? "The reeds bowed down before it" It being Stonehearts body.
That quote about the tapestries is one of my favorites in the entire series. "“Father had only gone out to ransom Petyr Pimple. He brought them the gold they asked for, but they hung him anyway.” “Hanged, Ami. Your father was not a tapestry.”
I’m hoping a quest for Jamie and brianne to go get Sana’a out of the vale. Arya shows up from bravos and Jamie gives her widows wail. Ice is back into stark hands. Brianne with oathkeeper as sansa sworn shield and Arya with widows wail. That would be cool.
I dont think we will see the scene in the cave with all three of them, we will only se how it affected the charecters (or any sidequests they are sent on) George got a lot of practice on writing about the past through the present when he tried out the 5 year gap, and he famously "never throws things away"
If I'm going with my gut, I would have to say that I think Brienne is going to save Jaime by betraying Stoneheart in the same fashion as Jaime betrayed the Mad King. But I really want all three to survive just to see some reactions. Arya, Sansa, Littlefinger, Jon and even Blackfish, all reactions would be amazing!
Man, an reunion between Stoneheart and her remaining children + post-resurrection Jon, Littlefinger, Edmure and Blackfish would be the best ASOIAF chapters EVER!
You guys have no idea the extent we went through to raise Stoneheart from her watery grave. But now she has awakened to seek her vengeance! Apologies for the slightly lower quality in this episode we have severe rendering issues with this one! I apologize for the slightly blurry quality of this one.
Love your work man!
Thank you for the hard work!!!
Jon can just warg himself back into his body. Or just puppet the body From Ghost. Mel isn't needed really. But I love how George specially says that his heart isn't beating and his blood isn't flowing. Because that's means no Jon/Danny Baby Thank you God for that.
Quin the Cousin killing thing was a show only invention
Hey bud. It's all top notch. I really appreciate all the work that goes into these videos.
Good job and thank you for your service
Personally I would love Lady Stoneheart to have a reunion with Littlefinger.
She's going to reject him in death as she did in life
It's the only thing he could not possibly prepare for, and it will be his demise.
oooh this is almost too much to hope for!!
This just made my draw drop
This would fit into how he seems like he thinks that there is nothing that he cant predict or will. Chaos is a ladder but his ladder is going to fall when undead Catelyn aims her hate and vengeance at him. I don't think George is going to let any of his characters actually become the Gods they want to become.
Michelle Fairley would have been a BAD ASS stoneheart... Probably the biggest cut character/storyline imo
It's hard to say without knowing how it's gonna play out but fAegon may be even bigger.
@@Actiomedey yeah, but with show restrictions and all, it seems like keeping Michelle (fan fav) interacting with characters that are already introduced would have made more sense than a half assed Dorne or Iron Islands. I agree fAegon might be more important to the endgame, but it would have taken a lot of work just to introduce it
The show went out of its way to make Cat likable. In the books... she's not. That woman fucks up everything she touches. Reading her chapters is ilke reading Cersei's; they're both really stupid people who think they're really smart.
praetorxyn does she fuck up everything tho I mean she makes dumb decisions she’s clearly very impulsive but unlike Cersei she regrets some of her dumb decisions like taking Tyrion where as Cersei thinks she always right and that nothing is her fault and it’s just because she doesn’t have a cock
I mean I personally dont like Cat either but stoneheart is the big turn around to make her full circle (at least I hope)
The sad detail about Lady Stoneheart's appearance is her damaged hair imo. The Tully auburn hair are said to be beautiful in the books iirc, and she has lost even that - it's very interesting considering the sociological importance hair tend to have, especially for women. We even see it in-story with the Dothrakis and their bells in the braids, or the Meereenese styling their hair in extravagant shapes. But even one of Catelyn's prettiest physical attributes, her beautiful auburn hair, have been lost. I don't why, but this part of her physical description really saddened me the first time I read it. Now, the only thing that really allows other people to properly identify her as Catelyn Tully is her hatred of the Frey and Jaime. There's nothing else.
Damn thinking about it all makes me tear up, it's so depressing.
Edit: regarding her children, she also embodies the motto of her own family: Family, Duty, Honour. The guilt you suspect would be clearly tied to that: she could perceive a personal failure in her duty to her family, which led to a dishonorable death. Even though she repeatedly warned Robb about Walder Frey, and was furious when he broke the arrangement they had with the Frey, because she knew it'd mean bad shit for them.
robbs biggest mistake was that he hadnt said "mayhaps" as he and cat had to deal with walter frey. the importance of mayhaps can be found in acok in a bran pov.
@@anne-kathrinhohlig1466 interestingly enough, when Walder was asked by Robb for guest rites, he answered "some salt and bread, mayhaps a sausage".
You couldn't be more right.
"they had so many opportunities to show [lady stoneheart] in the show" and instead D&D pissed all over the fans and GRRM's story by showing the Hound literally pissing into the river. smh
that was a major red flag when I learned they didn't include her because they didn't know what to do with her.
If you watch really carefully, you can *see* Catelyn on the show as Lady Stoneheart, once and not by face. She’s in the background crossing the archway when Bri and Arya are at Winterfell sparring.
Honestly, I imagine her looking like a reanimated corpse. Would have been too much effort keep her looking like that all the time
@@klljjza8803 its not, its ,littlefinger spy at winterfell, someone e made this comment last year on a A soiaf channel and it was debunked straight away,, I thought it might of been a little Easter egg but its not, sorry
Just one of the many reasons the show is inferior to the books
Jaime did not kill his own cousin in the books that was a show only thing
Well, Technically he is the reason that his cousin Cleos Frey dies. Even if he didnt intend it. Cleos warns Jaime multiple times to keep his voice down, and Jaime ignores him, leading to the ambushers getting the drop on their party, and resulting in the death of Cleos.
Noah David really. Theres a big difference between physically killing someone and having a group of men showering arrows at you
No but he jokes about the unfortunate (pretty hilarious) way he was killed, and then says he has more than enough cousins left when called upon his remarks. So his character was definitely capable of fucking ending Cleos if it earned him a chance of safety and Cersei's twat back
@Targaryen Dynasty never? Tyrion is pretty much convinced that Jaime would kill lancel as soon as he returned to King's landing. Jaime also shows little regard for wider family members like cleos frey.
@Targaryen Dynasty I'm just saying that early story Jaime is generally absolutely indifferent to the lives of anybody he has no close connection to. He casually orders the murder of ned stark's guards, and personally kills jory with never a moment of regret, all because it serves his purpose in that moment and because he wanted to make a point. Would that extend to wider family members that he has no connection with? I don't think it's a massive stretch.
Maybe one silver lining in this Corona Virus disaster is that, George RR Martin will have to stay at home and write!
Martin made a blog post a day or two ago saying he's in his mountain cabin writing right now, not going out in public anymore. He said, in his own words, that he's spending more time in Westeros than the real world right now. That is a total silver lining on this pandemic situation.
So maybe because of the covid 19 he won't be arrested this year!!
And he writes another........ tada! Novelette.
GRR Martin has lost ALL interest in the Ice and Fire series, deeming it spoiled beyond redemption by the show. His interest is almost solely in the prequel novellas set in Westeros... I think his contract with his publishers may end up only being fulfilled by writers his Estate Executor hires...
It's sad that Co-vid19 is the only reason we will see A Dream of Spring in this lifetime 😔😔😔
I agree: I think Jaime will be used to capture Riverrun or, perhaps, gain entry to the Twins where mass carnage will ensue. There, maybe in the chaos of Lady Stoneheart's massacre of the Freys, both will escape or Lady Stoneheart will expire. Also, in the forums online, most people have pointed out that Ice was melted down into two swords: Oathkeeper (Oathbreaker/False Friend) and Widow's Wail--which seem to be symbolical linked to Ned and Catelyn Stark respectively.
Man I actually dig oathkeeper = Ned. What an amazing character he was
@@henriquedaumas9934 And what a banshee Catelyn was
Yes, i agree. Also it would make sense to send someone after Sansa
I think in the end ir will be Nymeria who ends with Stoneheart and Melissandre who gets stabbed in the heart to light Lightbringer.
I need to read again the books and erase the show from my memory. Thank you so much guys for this series. I am so excited for the new book WoW. I hope we can read it soon :)
definitely the goal of this!
Lucifer means Lightbringer I’m halfway thru Storm as I watch this. Damn I love that book. Maybe my favorite novel of all time
GRRM said that the Coronavirus is helpimg him and also has promised to have it writen for the Worldcon
@@tylernelson4901 a clash of king my favorite,dance of dragon is very close but it second for me the storm of swords is third the game of throne then finally a feast for crows is last for me
This storyline is the most mysterious to me as I really can't puzzle out where this particular plot is going, which makes it all the more intriguing.
The best way to get through Corona Spring Break XL 2020.... this series.
Can't wait to see the North story lines represented by this series of predictive videos. The videos thus far have been awesome, but I've definitely most been looking forward to Stannis and the Battle of Ice, Mance Rayder, Wyman Manderly, the rescue mission on Skagos, etc. Winterfell right now is at least as intriguing as Old Town and Meereen, at least in my opinion.
Agreed. I think its awesome how all of these different plotlines are interesting for such different reasons. This is why I love ASOIAF!!!
Meereen was interesting when Dany got there. That was 20 years ago.
i wanna know what they speculate jons unfinished business will be when hes a fyre wight
@@Activated_Complex open your viens in a bathtube before you go to sleep tonight
Snakie same. I’m biased as fuck because he’s by far my favorite but I really feel like Stannis is one of the biggest wildcards for the series, right up there with Euron
If I’m not mistaken Brienne’s arm is broken on top all the other injuries sustained with biter. Not sure how her character Arc can continue in the time frame we have left, I think she’s on the chopping block, somehow dying for/in place of Jamie. GRRM will be cutting POV’s to condense the story for ADOS.
I wonder if Dondarrion's final act wasn't selfless or merciful at all, but what he thought was a way to escape. But what if he was wrong? What if instead of freeing his soul he is now trapped with what ever was left of Catelyn to create Stoneheart, a soul consuming eternal flame that grows more powerful every time it enters a new host?
Oh My fucking God I love that! Have you seen lml's last video Dragomorph? What if the thing they transfer is really a firewyrm parasite! Feasing on their souls and flesh alike!
Jaime didn't kill his cousin. That only happened in the show.
@@thedornishmanswife3712 How does he "let" him die? Cleos got killed. There's nothing Jaime could have done about it. What was there to "let"?!
Human bites are disgusting.. my grandpa had a bite on his arm from decades ago and it would still flair up or break out randomly. Don’t bite people it’s gross.
🤢🤢
Plus it's really rude.
Human bites are the worst kind of bite. Super infectious.
By announcing the plan to kill Jamie, it’s almost certain he will live.
Jaime will probably kill Cersei in the Books unlike the bricks that killed both. Anticlimactic.
My favorite valyrian steel sword is dark sister.
George said recently Bloodrven took it with him to the Wall, so it might be in the cave for Meera to take home yeah baby!
Hell yeah, I like lady forlorn for no particular reason just like the name
Oh yeah can't wait to see her put to good use
I think I'm a Longclaw guy.
@@BionicleSaurus blackfyre am I joke to you?? 😂😂😂
Jaime is the lion of the prophecy. He will be put to the sword (Oathkeeper). The valonquar is Tyrion.
Eventually, Arya will kill LSH with it out of pity, and it will light up.
This series is so dope. Normally not my type of thing to watch but I've watched every episode within hours of them coming out. Amazing job guys you should definitely team up more or even make a joined channel
Jamie didn't kill his cousin in the books. I hate that they added that in the show.
Its so Long that i had read acok, how was it in the book?
I know that he didnt kill cleos, he dies later.. But did kill he someone Other?
@@anonakkor9503 he killed one of Karstarks sons
He did nothing, since getting there Tyrion sent people to free him once but they failed. Cleos later gets shot with an arrow.
@@krisp5735 Jaime killed both the Karstarks sons in battle, and a Hornwood as he fought his way to Robb. So in the show Jaime does that, and kills his cousins, and as it happens he didn't even fight Ned in the books, he rode off. Killing his cousin and attacking Ned out of vanity in the show really changed Jamie's character, makes him seem way more evil, but they redeem him... Only for him to fall right back to where he started completely relapsing before he dies. It's fucked. I can't seen Martin writing those words, no Jaime's show end is the same as his book end.
As soon as Stoneheart failed to show up in season 4 I knew GOT was doomed. No exaggeration. To make such a colossal error as to cut what is by far one of the most extreme, wondrous, and earth-shattering twists in the entire story is inexcusable and immediately revealed D&D to be sub-par showrunners
imagine how good it would have been, seeing Michelle in that makeup after a full YEAR of thinking she was dead and gone (i mean, i knew about stoneheart at that point but a lot of people had no idea). i have no idea why they cut her, their excuses seem so flimsy. she’s absolutely incredible, and i would have loved to have Michelle back, even as a far more silent figure. she proved how much she can do with body and face alone.
Their next mistake was also omitting fAegon from the show, another COLOSSAL mistake
Stoneheart's inaudible speech, as a result of her throat being slashed and therefore needing the Brotherhood to translate, can be contrasted with the Other's speech who sound like crackling ice and therefore bringing it back to the theme of Fire and Ice.
Love this so much and the stone heart arc. I will say the bit about her hair being cut is also a typical trauma response. Your mind typically goes to something frivolous to divert from what's truly happening. It's possible she went to that place of what Ned loved about her to preserve some part of her sanity which is why shes able to laser focus on who has wronged her when she comes back. Stone heart is callous but she does her vengeance in a very calculated and thought out manner.
I've read this series so many times, and I have genuinely never thought about the fact that the Brienne that turns up in Pennytree might be a wight! Honestly blew my mind. Great video, guys!
Ok let me clear it up: Podrick was hung, they were hanged...
THANK YOU, I was so confused
Pod wasn't hung, he just had a good singing voice
Best comment by far
Podrick "The Tripod" Payne
@@DavidLightbringer Hung is used as the past tense/participle of hang for everything but in reference to a person being killed via hanging which is when you should use hanged.
It would definitely be a very Arthurian nod if Azor Ahai (whether that be Jamie, Brienne, or another character) had to pull "lightbringer" from Stoneheart's stone of a heart to set it alight. I could definitely see GRRM doing that. As, you said, she is a fire wight now and Beric could set his sword on fire using his blood. Plus it was said that Nissa Nissa's "blood, soul, strength, and courage" all went into lightbringer to light it aflame. If Stoneheart was killed I could see her passing on her "kiss of life" and fire to the sword. I do hope that she gets the knowledge that her children are still alive before that happens though. I could see Stoneheart even sacrificing herself if she knew that even one of her children were alive and lightbringer would keep them safe.
It would be even better if Jon had to do it. Catelyn’s hate for him in life could be resolved in her death.
@@mangostripes2335 It would've be incredible if Cat ends up being Jon's Nissa Nissa!
i had never even considered that… that’s such a cool idea. there are so many great ways for Lightbringer to be forged, i genuinely can’t wait to see where it actually goes, and hoping he’s not going for the super obvious “jon kills his aunt-lover” (blech)
Man this channel is churning out content left and right. I can barely keep up! Keep up the good work guys. I'm so glad I discovered your channels after the show ended. I felt kinda burned by the show but after seeing your analysis of the books, it got me to read them gaining a better appreciation for them.
Thank you guys so much, these are so so so so great. And you Quinn were on fire this upload.
Best ASOIAF youtube content in years.
The only outcomes I can see coming are all 3 living or Stoneheart dying. Jamie and Brienne have too much left to do. Jaime still needs to kill Cersei and Brienne needs to live so she can write Jaime's entry in the White Book (I know that was a show thing, but that seems too perfect for the romantic Martin to pass up).
Maybe Jamie will find out that he still loves Cersei like in the show!!
@@opqrrg If that happens I'm throwing the books into the fire. Jaime has grown too much, became too much of a better man to just go back to Cersei. Unlike in the show, book!Jaime never fully realizes who Cersei is, like he's in full-on denial and he distances himself from her as soon as he opens his eyes to who she really is - "the Queen o' Whores"
@@terlindenconstance7477 but for me even in the show that choise was retarded (like almost anything happened in the last 2 seasons)!!
@@opqrrg booooooo nooooooo 🤣
@@opqrrg I don't think so, book Jaime has been very different from show Jaime
oh my god that intro gave me PTSD from the intro to "The Bells", you know that pathetic tactic they used to try to convince us that it's totally within character for Daenerys to murder a million innocent civilians for no reason whatsoever.
It made me shudder.
They did my Dragon Queen so dirty! Jon should have been a snack 4 Drogon. Her burning King's Landing was so unlike her and that stupid speech! I felt bad 4 Kit and Emilia when they read the script. He was driven 2 drink. What he did wasn't honorable! The worst thing U can be in Westeros is a kinslayer and Queenslayer.
Forget the show. I drank white walker shots all through season 8 because I had to get drunk to sit through it.
daenarys is gonna do the same thing in the books lol it’s evident in the text already. just u wait
@@theinvisiblewoman6783 I literally got sick when watching the battle for winterfell. A deadly combination of disappointment, disgust and drunkenness.
When Stoneheart (Catelyn’s corpse) is floating down the river, the passage says the “(R)eeds bowed down”. Do you think this implies House Reed may eventually come to a call or swear swords for Lady Stoneheart for some cause in TWoW?
I don't think so honestly. Lady Stoneheart is singularly focused on getting her revenge on Houses Frey and Lannister, especially Frey, and House Reed has nothing to do with any of that, they have no reason to get involved in that conflict, especially for a dead woman. A woman who, it's worth noting, wasn't even actually a Stark, but a Tully who only married into House Stark. I don't think Stoneheart will ever have anything to do with anyone in the North again. She's a walking abomination so she can't ever come out into the open and no house is ever going to follow her. I think House Reed will become important in the future, but it won't have anything to do with Lady Stoneheart. I think that line about the reeds was just what it looks like, just a line. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Thankyou! I've asked that before and I'm glad someone else thought so. It ain't *too* crazy
you guys are great! thank you for this deep dive into Stoneheart.
This is the best ASOIAF content there is. You two are chocolate and peanut butter. Quality shit.
These videos are the light in the darkness that is self-quarantine. Cheers fellas.
Personally I think Jon is safe. Berric and Cat are not Wargs while Jon is and probably warged into Ghost.
Yes, Jon probably did that. But wasn't the biggest problem with warging that if you stay in the animal you are warging for to long, it can alter your own mental state, even going as far that one might forget you were a human and not an animal. I think Jon will be like LS and be a very transformed character when we get to see him again.
@@Zaza-xm6jw It depends how long he's in Ghost.
@@made-line7627 I think 3 or 9 days inside Ghost is enough for Jon before resurrection!
I’ve only read the first two books (I’ve seen the entire show)and you two are making me want to continue on NOW. I don’t want to be like everyone else and wait for book 6, damnit! Quit making awesome videos.
Books 3, 4, and 5 are better than 1 and 2 in my opinion. I read through them in about 6 weeks while I read through the first 2 in 3 months.
Donald J Gump Official really? I felt a Feast for Crows kind of was just a bunch of additional information not much action
I love the wolf POVs as well. Jack London actually did that pretty well also, telling the story from an animal’s viewpoint. White Fang is a really great, quick read.
I actually see stoneheart as the plot twist after the plot twist. I would never have imagined that cat would be reborn like this pure hatred. I would love to see lady stoneheart and Arya team up in the river lands
Hello. If i remember the book the woman is lady Stark, Aryas mother.
@@alexiachimciuc3199 She obviously knows that man, she did say "Cat" being reborn as this hateful thing after all... LoL.
@@jeremyw.norwood1453 Oo forgot to put a ? at the end of my sentence.
Desu that would be so bad, like some sort of buddy cop movie. She's a zombie filled with hatred and with a damn big throat cut, arya should mercy kill her on the spot.
Honesty with 2 books left I’m clueless as to how Arya’s story plays out. She’s so far away from Westeros right now.
Loved the idea that Breanna the beauty is secretly already a wight. What would be really cool is if they don’t reveal it till way down the line when she is fighting the others or something and something happens where she should have died but you find out she’s safe because she already died or something probably something to do with the cold
"Her jaws closed around a pale, white arm."
You know what else is a pale, white arm? Dawn, the sword of the morning.
It’s so good to see the humour and rapport between you two :)
One thing I would like to see is when Cersei is retreating back to Casterly Rock (Aegon takes the throne from her and she's smuggled out of the city by Qyburn) her escort is ambushed by the Brotherhood in the riverlands and Cersei is in the presence of Stoneheart (Jaimie is imprisoned by the Brotherhood at this point) then Stoneheart forces Jaimie to choose who dies Brianne or Cersei.
That is a good idea.
We learn in the Varimyr chapter that the "soul" leaves the body upon death, seems to me that the wights are the body without the "soul" that is reanimated, and with the fire wights it's their fiery emotions that animates them, and that is why they are lesser and lesser. It's like the emotion stays and calls the "soul" back, but the longer the body has been dead the more the "soul" has become a part of the world. Could also be why the kiss of life doesn't always work, unless some big burning emotion is there, there is nothing to animate you.
Ps. I think the show has muddied the waters a lot, we are told by Thormund that every night new wights are raised from those that die of hypothermia or starvation/sickness, but I really doubt that white walkers are going through the camps raising people. I think that it's a remnant of the magic that created the white walkers that is raising the dead. It also seems to be related to proximity,it's more potent now, but it's implied that the dead rose even when the white walkers were inactive.
Yes, I agree with that. I don't think Jon's resurrection will be the same as Beric's or Catelyn's because Jon hasn't actually died; his consciousness has transferred to Ghost. Catelyn and Beric were completely dead, consciousness and all, and were reanimated. But Jon is still there, he's just in his wolf. So I think it will be different with him, I think he'll retain more of himself.
I think you are right, Jon won't be the same, it's gonna be interesting to see if that will affect his body, or it will be the same as Berricks. No healing, fire blood and so on.
her description is so haunting and it really reminds me of a weirwood, white skin with eyes crying blood and a blood smile - a slit throat can be known as a blood smile, and the description of slashing her throat "ear to ear" invokes images of a smile. also the fact that she is the walking personification of hatred may be a bit of foreshadowing of how the weirwoods and the gods they draw from truly feel, considering blood raven thought euron to be a decent choice for wizard school I don't think they're particularly moral
The appearance of Lady Stone heart at the end of "A Storm of Swords" was definitely a "what in the world" moment.
I'm so excited for this series. I've definitely missed asoiaf videos. Thank you guys so much for this content
I honestly don't know why, but I'm picturing Lady Stoneheart storming Riverrun with the Brotherhood Without Banners being a lot like Anakin storming the Jedi Temple with the 501st.
- both got hoods
- both are driven by hatred
- both are storming the place they knew of as home for many years of their lives
- both become dark shadows of their former selves
All we need is Jedi Temple March playing, and you've got a spectacular visual going on lol
I like to compare Catelyn to Anakin and Jon Snow to Sasuke, a golden boy or girl and a outcast with an god-like bloodline growing more and more ruthless and violent due to the trauma and losses they went through!
@@PedroLucas-mg5je Plus, Jon is also a fire zombie like Catelyn
So I just realized how much Brienne's fever reinforces her as a "Good Other" archetype, which makes me wonder about how negative her arc could be moving forward. So much of Brienne's story is about keeping oaths, and now she's in a conflict of oaths: her oath to the living Cat to bring back her daughters, her oath to Jaime to do the same, and now a potential oath to Stoneheart to kill Jaime. I wonder if bringing Jeyne Westerling could soothe the savage beast in Stoneheart---appease her enough to make sure that Brienne doesn't fully undermine her former oaths to Cat and Jaime. I do think that at the end of the day, Brienne will be an oathkeeper, like her sword, it just may come about in an unconventional and kind of heartbreaking way. But I'm concerned for what's going on with her and Jaime.
It's interesting how suddenly Jamie and Brienne both have experience with conflicting oaths and are genuinely troubled by how to uphold them. Sir Barristan's experiences with oaths and his "good other" symbolism are also worth considering!
I think it's a real shame they didn't use Stoneheart in the show. Michelle Fairley would have fun with that I think.
Yay back with audio.
I think they'll force them to have a trial by combat. A little proxy war that George loves so much.
There will probably be a situation where a third force comes upon the cave. That forces them to scatter.
All the Crown aligned forces are hunting for them.
that makes a certain amount of sense... who do you think crashes the party?
@@DavidLightbringer black Walder was tracking after them with some hounds in dance maybe them
Finally , thank you , this is what I was waiting for
this is really my favorite combo on m youtube for book content you guys are dope
I like to think that even without Aria influencing her, Nym would still have wanted Cat come chill.
Nice, It is amazing how you fluidly interact guys! I always repeat your content and now I get the idea from this talking. First time hearing the background on how Brienne, Jaime and Lady Stoneheart may get a deal
Love you both and all y’all collabs my absolute faves!!
Not only are these vids just fascinating as all hell, but sometimes you make me laugh so hard I’m cryin.
I love this series you two are doing. Gets me so hyped for twow. Hopefully we will get it one day
Thank you guys for delivering this high quality content every day. It’s been a well needed distraction from all the coronavirus induced anxiety I’ve been having, not to mention refreshing my brain for WoW.
the epiloge in a storm was one of the best things i have ever read.. catelyn is one of the best and smartes Pov characters in a storm.. she know how the politics work, how the people work
You two together are Amazeballs
So much chem
Great deep dive into Stoneheart , certainly one of many omissions with the show that I did not care for , especially such a horror element that GRRM likes to include and just a super intriguing character / arc overall. Definitely will be interesting to see where we go with LS , personally I do not think at their next encounter between LS , Brienne & Jaime will result in any deaths , I just think they all have their own arcs to fulfill a bit further before any type of interruption. Clearly in LS' perspective it does not look good , most of the optics with Brienne and Jaime which I think will result in a quest of proving worth and loyalty. And It does seem much more likely and satisfying that LS will be the one to exact vengeance upon the Freys , just works much better than any other possibility.
In terms of her purpose and arc , it does not seem to go much further beyond revenge on the Freys and learning of her children' fates , most of which should be alive and accounted for upon her hearing it , at which point it will be interesting to see how her arc ends. I personally do not subscribe to this she will just fade away once she knows her children are okay theory that some perpetuate. Of course it would be dark and twisted although could be construed as "mercy" and Arya is on the dark and twisted path anyway if she is the one to kill Stoneheart but even for Arya that is a bit extreme. Personally hope it comes from Jaime and Brienne hatching a plan and slaying LS together with their Valyrian steel swords in a figurative reforging / coming together of Ice , that could be an interesting and poetic way if it transpires in such a manner. Either way , very curious and eagerly anticipate to see how LS' arc unfolds in the books and for me it does seem she will have to be taken out at some point , as she is and will further become an out of control abomination that will need to be stopped.
(@ 27:00) Catelyn would also feel guilt for pushing Eddard into letting Sansa marry Joffrey and into becoming Robert's hand... her ambition and impulsiveness destroyed the Starks (like Cersi with the Lannisters).
The tragic thing is, If she stayed in Winterfell when Tyrion made a visit, she could've asked him about the Valyrian dagger and the catspaw mystery would be resolved without misunderstandings or bloodshed!
Man, these recaps are so, so good. It's been 5yrs since I've read some books
It's a pleasure to hear you two talk. Thank you so much for these! Xx
Agreed, I've always wanted/hoped that Lady Stoneheart would be the one to deliver retaliation/vengeance to the Freys + Boltons....bc holy 💩 how epically terrifying for them would that be??!
What if Stoneheart is the reason Jaime is compelled to eventually kill Cersei? 😯 (I believe Jaime to be the valonqar, not Tyrion)
GRRM does like horror novels, soooo...
So who is the little sibling in the show? Who killed Cersei? Dani is the best candidate, if you go by the show, alone. Remember, valyrian has all those gender neutral words.
If Jamie does and is resurrected and becomes vengeful, he possibly tracks down Cersei to fufill the valinqar
I want Arya to meet Stoneheart, i want her to realize what hatred and wish for vengence does to people. Then i want her to kill her mother out of mercy, give up revange, and lead brotherhood.
Whoa, I love this.
yes please!
Agreed, except, not out of mercy. But because the Brotherhood Without Banners took someone from the Many-Faced God. She sets that straight, and in exchange, expects that the remaining names on her list will be saved for her to cross off with Needle. So, not giving up revenge by a long shot. The Brotherhood might follow her, and she might tolerate that because while they are behind her, they cannot get in her way.
Stoneheart wants vengeance because she thinks Arya and Sansa are dead ,if she met up with Aria she would chill out ,maybe
Ocean Pacific I think that would be a moment of constructive, rather than destructive, interference. Though it would certainly bring about plenty of destruction. First of all, upon the Freys. That might take urgent priority over sending R’hllor’s wight back to the Stranger who found her in that river.
That dream Jaime Had in a ASOS right before saving Brienne in Harrenhal was in a cave remember? Maybe Was some foreshadowing for the Winds.
Just found your channel and absolutely loving it! Considered picking up the books again while we’re all stuck in. Cheers guys, keep up the good work!
I think Thoros will save Jamie. He is very clearly not comfortable with what the Brotherhood Without Banners has become. And there's already a sign his disagreement with this has cost him. He was Berrick's right hand. Now he's the dungeon guard? And Lemoncloak seems to be Stoneheart's right hand. He and Jamie know each other reasonably well. Jamie was by Robert's side constantly and Thoros was Robert's favourite drinking buddy. If Thoros believes Jamie has changed, even if Stoneheart doesn't, he might get him out at the cost of his own life. And think about it, who would know that maze of tunnels better than Thoros, a founder of the Brotherhood?
WafflingMean44 you have a point
Omg! Yes! The quarantine just got more manageable. All this talk about Lady Stoneheart makes me think about how Jon will be if/when he comes back!
Just saw the part where you guys mention you're making a video on Jon! Sweet!
Thanks for putting these brilliantly informative videos together, guys! So many things I've forgotten about which means that I MUST go back and read the books again. Only frustrates me so much how D&D couldn't even think to bring some of these ideas to the screen. So f'n short-sighted they are! 😡
Show could still be going too!
I think you've missed the trust part. Like how Stoneheart would even have a change of "heart" and give Jaime a quest. She's not Cat that have logic. She's an avatar of vengeance.
I can't possibly imagine how Jaime will get out of here. Maybe he could get out (un)alive? I like how you've mentioned Thoros could be the wild card. If the fires reveal that Jaime is needed in the coming great war, maybe... just maybe. There is hope for him.
Thoros makes sense. Or maybe Jamie can help her get vengeance with the Frays
In Show, Jaime Bronn goes to Dorne for Myrcella... But may be it mirrors in the Books with Jaime Brienne going to Vale for Sansa ??? ✨
I'm just starting book 4 so I feel I'm really diving into a very different lore from the show. Seems book 4 is where things start to really change. Pumped to see what happens with Lady Stoneheart!
50 minutes analysis of Lady Stoneheart? Yes please!!!!
I can't wait 4 TWOW so many questions can be answered that weren't in the show! 2 many potholes 4 me! I think we will see her through Brienne or Jaime's POV.
Jamie will help get lady stoneheart to twins and get her revenge by turning everyone into ghosts
Thanks for the videos. It's good to remember how much better the books are.
Thank you both for these videos! In light of recent events, they're a very welcome distraction. ❤❤❤
I dig the editing at 5:00 in especially those of us that have heard your tangents before. Not hating I just thought that was so funny because I literally said here we go.
I really appreciate the content. Much love LmL
whoa: lml: great catch on the stoneheart/oathkeeper parallel.
Looking forward to reading your book, Quinn. Just ordered mine last week.
I've always wondered if Melissandre passes the fire of life to raise Jon. Hopefully, GRRM will include more about fire wights the next book, WoW
Again, David and Quinn, Thank you for the content.
If she had stayed in Winterfell, or even done any of the 5 commands Ned gave her when she left King's Landing, perhaps none of this would have happened. She must feel guilt over that.
Only at the third book, but it sounds like she does feel guilty. :/
U should check out green hands why catlyn sucks
The worst part is she's a Tully who was raised with the house words of FAMILY.DUTY.HONOR and broke all 3 by ignoring Ned's wishes!
@@josephsmith6777 It's a work of art, I never saw it in that light but her and Sansa are AWFUL PEOPLE.
@@josephsmith6777 oh I have. They were right on par with my thoughts. I've always thought Cat horrible.
Lmao the “talking about LiGhTbRiNgEr” edit was gold.
I found ur page when I was at work and was so mad that I didn’t find ur page sooner 🔥💯
I am loving these! Wish there were 50!
These are the only livestreams I can watch all the way thru. These and In deep geek. 💙🔥
Didn’t they miss the most obvious foreshadowing in the scene where Catelyn gets pulled out of the water?
"The reeds bowed down before it"
It being Stonehearts body.
Like, the Reeds as in *Howland Reed* and family?
I had that thought. It is too much of a coincidence.
Well. She is/was Lady Stark 😔
You guys are doing great stuff, keep it going!!!!
as I'm sure you've been told already, that is not a 'ghost'. that's what's called a Revenant. a ghost can only haunt. a revenant can avenge.
That quote about the tapestries is one of my favorites in the entire series.
"“Father had only gone out to ransom Petyr Pimple. He brought them the gold they asked for, but they hung him anyway.”
“Hanged, Ami. Your father was not a tapestry.”
Nice long episode. This makes me happy. 🍻
I don't ask for much I want Jaime an Brienne to survive an live happily together. Two literally broken people who make a whole.
After listening to this video not surprising if Brienne is a wight
I’m hoping a quest for Jamie and brianne to go get Sana’a out of the vale. Arya shows up from bravos and Jamie gives her widows wail. Ice is back into stark hands. Brianne with oathkeeper as sansa sworn shield and Arya with widows wail. That would be cool.
I think Rickon will probably wield Widow's Wail!
I dont think we will see the scene in the cave with all three of them, we will only se how it affected the charecters (or any sidequests they are sent on)
George got a lot of practice on writing about the past through the present when he tried out the 5 year gap, and he famously "never throws things away"
I would also like to see a video of daenerys visions in the house of the undying and other dreams and how they may foreshadow what is to come
If I'm going with my gut, I would have to say that I think Brienne is going to save Jaime by betraying Stoneheart in the same fashion as Jaime betrayed the Mad King.
But I really want all three to survive just to see some reactions. Arya, Sansa, Littlefinger, Jon and even Blackfish, all reactions would be amazing!
Man, an reunion between Stoneheart and her remaining children + post-resurrection Jon, Littlefinger, Edmure and Blackfish would be the best ASOIAF chapters EVER!
This is the best take ive heard so far