Brawl's Unorthodox Legal Stages (And Why They Were Banned)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
  • When a new platform fighter is released in the modern era, players know almost immediately which stages work and which ones don’t. But how did we get here? Join me in discussing the early, mostly undocumented trial-and-error era that ultimately ‘set the stage’ for a decade to come.
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    HUGE shoutouts to ‪@cfino9‬ for finding a lot of the clips used (most notably the Rainbow Cruise Pikmincide, my favorite clip in the video)
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    Music used:
    -Intro / Persona 3 Reload - It’s Going Down Now (Regular + Instrumental)
    -2:10 / Persona 2 Innocent Sin - Unbreakable Tie (PSP Opening Theme)
    -2:46 / Persona 2 Innocent Sin - Yukino’s Theme (Special Remix)
    -5:32 / Tatsunoko vs Capcom - Morrigan’s Theme
    -7:51 / Streets of Rage - Fighting in the Street (Stage 1)
    -10:01 / Bullet Casters - Ella Battle Theme
    -11:29 / LEGO Rock Raiders - Track 4 (PlayStation)
    -12:46 / Anata o Yurusanai - Between Lie and Truth
    -Outro / Persona RE_Brilliance - Signs of Love (Alright Mix)
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    Video footage/credits:
    -Sample L: Maze tourney clip / • GAMESTOP tournament- S...
    -Apex 2013 Mikeneko vs ZeRo / • Apex 2013 Winners Quar...
    -PS1 Melee glitch clip / • Plup vs S2J - Melee Si...
    -Norfair clip / • C3 ranbat 5 SSBB final...
    -Pirate Ship clip / • Ken and Isai ARE BACK!...
    -Justin Wong evo clip / • EVO - Ryzen(Falco) vs ...
    -Sheik PS2 combo clip / • SiiS6 - Singles Bracke...
    -PS1 MK/Peach clip / • Brawling For Evo HDL (...
    -Yoshi’s Brawl clip / • Keeblerchips (Pikachu)...
    -ADHD vs Ally Pictochat clip / • KTAR 3: WF ADHD (Diddy...
    -EVO2008 Ken Luigi’s Mansion clip / • Brawl Evo 2008 Winner ...
    -Corneria clip / • Balanced Brawl Genesis...
    -Frigate Orpheon FlipClip / • Apex 2013 - ESAM vs CT...
    -Cute lil baby monkey clip(i’m so sorry for using it this way) / • Monkey Baby Bon Bon go...
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    I used a .psd template from CosmoStudio [ www.freepik.com/free-psd/gold... ] for that sick “Golden Era” graphic
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    Interested in discussing or playing Brawl? @Brawl_Central on Twitter is the big hub for modern Brawl. Visit brawlcentral.carrd.co for all the community links! You can talk about the game or find people to netplay with there :) they can even help you set it all up if you’re not sure how to!
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    If you have any questions about my content, please @ or DM me on Twitter @Brawlternative or send a message to my personal Instagram account, @sjsaksma.
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    Thanks for your support!
    -SKUNCH
  • เกม

ความคิดเห็น • 730

  • @Brawlternative
    @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1494

    i genuinely think the production cycle of this video has made me the only person on planet earth who now gets sentimental over Sample L: Maze

    • @TheRedStinger82
      @TheRedStinger82 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +48

      The Sample L: Maze meta was real

    • @Glory2Snowstar
      @Glory2Snowstar 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      Bath gang where y'all at?

    • @A.Cobalt
      @A.Cobalt 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

      Nah, I love Maze, unironically have some really good memories of it

    • @PorLoaf
      @PorLoaf 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +35

      The sample stages and the whole aesthetic of the stage builder in general will always have a special place in my heart

    • @ShadowsWrath4
      @ShadowsWrath4 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      You could say you hold this L dear to your heart.

  • @humongofrog
    @humongofrog 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1379

    Competitive integrity be damned, give me back hype rainbow cruise matches that go to timer.

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +390

      DUDE i know i shit on that stage a bit in the video but it was SO fun to play in tournament

    • @Trekiros
      @Trekiros 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +196

      I had an agreement with a tournament buddy - whenever we met in brackets, we would ALWAYS play on Rainbow Cruise. Tournaments had the gentleman rule, which went "if both players agree, they can play on any stage", so even though people gave us weird looks, we were like "no that's a tournament match I swear"

    • @moistmarsupial3528
      @moistmarsupial3528 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      nice username. Myth gang

    • @bb010g
      @bb010g 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      As a PM player, I loved Rainbow Cruise in friendlies. heck, depending on the matchup we'd let it ride on Kongo Jungle 64 too

    • @alfonshedstrom9859
      @alfonshedstrom9859 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Rainbow Cruise creates lowkey super hype matches

  • @TheRenegadem
    @TheRenegadem 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1094

    "what game is this from" will be a line I will think about forever

    • @HoistTheSailsGentlemen
      @HoistTheSailsGentlemen 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +23

      Anyone know the video that's from?

    • @Duskia
      @Duskia 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +41

      remember people weren't such nerds about smash bros back then and the internet was still in its infancy lol

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +44

      ​@@HoistTheSailsGentlemen Totally missed that clip in the credits, sorry! Updated the desc :)

  • @cetitanenthusiast776
    @cetitanenthusiast776 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +334

    Can't believe I missed out on "1v1 me bro, 3 stocks, Fox only, no items, Hanenbow" in a legal tournament setting

    • @jasper7439
      @jasper7439 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +26

      Sounds way more fun to me lol

    • @testleadss
      @testleadss 8 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      low items*

  • @zachpro5475
    @zachpro5475 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1616

    Unband new pork city

    • @LisReal2401TPFi
      @LisReal2401TPFi 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +99

      Unban Hyrule Temple

    • @TheRedStinger82
      @TheRedStinger82 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +62

      Unban bridge of eldin

    • @cozy_boi
      @cozy_boi 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +45

      Catch me counter picking to new pork city because I know I'm gonna lose anyway 😎

    • @guidemissile1494
      @guidemissile1494 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +22

      unban maze

    • @garbless
      @garbless 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +20

      unban home run contest

  • @Wing_cap
    @Wing_cap 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +705

    Meta Knight being even more busted on his own stage is just, 🧑‍🍳👌

    • @kipper1668
      @kipper1668 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +52

      Penguin: Home-field advantage

    • @mattwo7
      @mattwo7 15 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Couldn't Kirby take literally the same advantage from that stage?

    • @saturnmunchies
      @saturnmunchies 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Sakurai knew what he was doing when making brawl LOL

  • @cadeldance2538
    @cadeldance2538 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +872

    "John, brawl doesn't have enough legal stages for its competitive scene"
    "UHHHH THE CUSTOM ONE THEY USE AS AN EXAMPLE?!"
    "Oh damn alright"

    • @cr4sh25
      @cr4sh25 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@cadeldance2538 hey, we also used custom stages in tournaments for a while intentionally. The only reason they didn't stick is the bad blast zones. Brawl community did some cool shit.
      th-cam.com/video/abMbM2Wu-Ew/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QYVpz8PxlW3flvfN

    • @da_real_bup
      @da_real_bup 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Should've used mushroomy kingdom smh
      (The scrolling smb stage I forgot the name)

    • @wadespencer3623
      @wadespencer3623 15 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@da_real_bup This is a wild example of somebody somehow learning about Mario stuff entirely through Smash Bros. No judgement there it's just odd to see. It's Mushroom Kingdom! And in fact modeled after the original Mario Bros game's first stage. The Mushroom Kingdom being where Princess Peach and supposedly the Mario bros actually live.

    • @da_real_bup
      @da_real_bup 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @wadespencer3623 bro I know about mario I mean have you seen my pfp 💀
      I jus forgot the name

    • @kirbybim3684
      @kirbybim3684 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      ​@@wadespencer3623Love how confidently wrong you are here lol. The scrolling stage is indeed spelt "Mushroomy Kingdom," with a Y. The person you're replying to was right.

  • @yggdrasilsaltar
    @yggdrasilsaltar 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +392

    this is a certified Sample L: Maze classic!

  • @zawarudo497
    @zawarudo497 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +175

    1 stock items on 1 minute timer battlefield only is definitely one of the rulesets of all time

    • @999darkhorse
      @999darkhorse 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +23

      im pretty sure it wasnt even 1 stock it was just smashfest or whatever that shits called with a 1 minute timer

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +34

      @@999darkhorse It was mostly just 1 minute timer matches, but I found a few matches on youtube where they genuinely did 1 stock 1 minute. horrendous

    • @999darkhorse
      @999darkhorse 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@Brawlternative that kicks ass

  • @finalmix4375
    @finalmix4375 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +220

    The Rainbow Cruise match actually looked like both players were playing a "Platforming" fighting game

    • @Ten_Thousand_Locusts
      @Ten_Thousand_Locusts 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +33

      Right? I swear competitive sure has a way to suck all the fun out of games.

    • @smasher8uhx932
      @smasher8uhx932 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

      That actually looked like fun

    • @ShadowEclipse777
      @ShadowEclipse777 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      ​@@Ten_Thousand_Locusts this, I'm a filthy casual who like items and crazy stages, but I actually have fun playing lol

    • @Ten_Thousand_Locusts
      @Ten_Thousand_Locusts 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      @@ShadowEclipse777 lol same, probably why Brawl is still my favourite of them all. It's was the most unapologetically "casual".

  • @Tybis
    @Tybis 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +130

    Lylat Cruise's tilting isn't truly random. The stage randomly cycles between certain background animations, but the tilting is a fixed pattern for each background and can be learned.

    • @megapussi
      @megapussi 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      this is exactly the kind of esoteric game knowledge that I love the smash community for

    • @Maxx00
      @Maxx00 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +20

      Finally, someone who understands its skill based😅

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

      NUH UH

    • @lunarkomet
      @lunarkomet 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      ​@@Maxx00you're joking right?

    • @Maxx00
      @Maxx00 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@lunarkomet my lucario hates that stage with a passion

  • @xBlaster
    @xBlaster 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +146

    Whoever legalized Rainbow Cruise is a genius

  • @Tybis
    @Tybis 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +457

    I think players wrongly associate "the stage does weird things" as "this stage is ban-worthy" because of how often the two things are paired together. Like, I understand why Halberd isn't usually legal because it buffs Meta Knight (and the claw can go to hell). But at the same time, Halberd's laser is probably the best designed damaging hazard in Smash history because of how much control players have over it and how much time you have to play around it. And as you said, even though you don't want to get hit by it, you can still SDI out of it. It straight up punishes camping and makes the players interact, which is pretty nice for a game that's known for defensive play.

    • @jayjaydeth
      @jayjaydeth 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +50

      From my experience, both viewing and playing, a vast majority of the time there's an unspoken gentlemen's agreement with the laser that you wait for it to prepare to fire and then wait it out with the laser firing between you or you just play normally and avoid where ever it happens to be shooting which was often times in the middle of the air somewhere.
      The reason for this was because if you had the target on you it's pretty much impossible to aim the laser somewhere helpful like a ledge because your opponent has an ungodly amount of time to be somewhere else and if you do happen to get it to cover a ledge, well now you have a laser behind you and someone in front of you who, mathematically speaking, has a good chance of being someone with a chain grab on you.
      Best case scenario, you get your opponent off stage with the laser between your opponent and the ledge... which your opponent is obviously going to try to avoid, but even then, regular gameplay would have you mid knockback often times when the laser fires.
      So, yeah, I think I've seen the laser do literally anything maybe one time in casual gameplay and never once in tournament play. It's a "hazard" about as much as the parasol, hat, and purse are in 75m.

    • @brennantmi5063
      @brennantmi5063 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      Yeah laser does not really do anything. Play the stage enough and you will get a wonky dead from being targeted wile you are trying to recover . However I am shocked it survived as long as it did because of how insane MK's home field advantage is. I don't know if any other stage/character combo that is close to as synergistic as those two. Shame to because of how cool and beloved it is. (the claw can go fuck itself)

    • @youtubeuniversity3638
      @youtubeuniversity3638 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Compers would sooner ragequit that admit that adapting to and abusing rng is itself a skill.

    • @FalseHerald
      @FalseHerald 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah, I'm sure you're way more skilled, so why don't you challenge the nearest competitive player to a 20 dollar money match on halberd? It's free money :)

    • @ShadowEclipse777
      @ShadowEclipse777 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

      But it's fun and competitive Smash players despise fun (half /s)

  • @smallwaves
    @smallwaves 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +119

    10:23 Ivysaur can't catch a break

  • @danielcatlett3845
    @danielcatlett3845 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +80

    Sample L: Maze is great and all, but I wanna talk about the real GOAT stage. Sample S: Hole

    • @smackstar1015
      @smackstar1015 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      They should legalize Sample M: Bath.

  • @maneruloquendero
    @maneruloquendero 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +428

    Well, with so many legal stages, the party game finally felt like... A party game

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +271

      I talk about Brawl from a competitive lens (since that's where a lot of my interest comes from) but Brawl is an absurdly good party game, and nothing I or anyone else says will ever take that away

    • @ZACHaDN
      @ZACHaDN 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      play it as a party game then you knob

    • @CaptianKatsura
      @CaptianKatsura 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +67

      I still think Brawl was the best Smash game in terms of Casual Play, at least when you weren't randomly tripping...

    • @FlamingZelda3
      @FlamingZelda3 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +41

      @@CaptianKatsura the single player was goated

    • @waves9515
      @waves9515 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +46

      @@CaptianKatsura Yeah I feel like Brawl is peak casual smash, even as a melee head. It was the last smash game before items started getting *really* overtuned to the point where even my casual friends started wanting to turn them off lmao
      Also, yeah, Subspace is goated

  • @naerolf09
    @naerolf09 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +87

    "1v1 me fox only no items final destination" ❌
    "1v1 me 1 stock items on random stage" ✅

  • @SmashMarioPro
    @SmashMarioPro 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +36

    The person asking "which game did this come from?" during the match was just so funny but also one of those "how do we tell them" moments

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      I found the footage first and popped off, didn't actually hear the "which game did this come from?" until i clarified the audio a bit in editing. in that moment i was in that pic where the two guys are digging a hole with pickaxes and the top one turns around right before he hits the diamonds but i was the bottom guy who kept digging

  • @DarkAura19
    @DarkAura19 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +36

    Oh GOD I was a part of that Gamestop tournament. Going there and getting humbled by people as a middle schooler is what made me fall in love with competitive tourneys to begin with.

  • @UniGya
    @UniGya 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +34

    I have always thought random stage with items on is, while absolutely unbalanced, an insanely funny format for a tournament. Just not any tournament with a significant prize pool

  • @IWish2500
    @IWish2500 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +226

    Here before Coney reacts

    • @JaysYoshiYT
      @JaysYoshiYT 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Same

    • @competitively3315
      @competitively3315 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Me too!

    • @Sompursone
      @Sompursone 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Yo same

    • @zweePOP
      @zweePOP 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      who is coned

    • @quitothings
      @quitothings 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Same!

  • @Moss_Dude
    @Moss_Dude 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +125

    Is.. nobody going to point out that the platform guy on yoshi's island is named STANLEY?? Not Randal?

    • @elio7610
      @elio7610 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      what? it has a name?

    • @kurodyne9692
      @kurodyne9692 20 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      The cloud has no name, but Randall was a name suggested by FastFox on Smashboards and it stuck.

    • @Moss_Dude
      @Moss_Dude 20 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      @@kurodyne9692 The cloud in melee is named Randal, but the white slime thing on the brawl stage is Stanley.

  • @ItsMeChair1
    @ItsMeChair1 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +94

    10:59 to be fair, it was banned in melee at the same time, and melee is 6 years older.

    • @elio7610
      @elio7610 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      it seems weird to me somehow but it was the biggest gap between smash games.

    • @ItsMeChair1
      @ItsMeChair1 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Erm, actually, the gap between Brawl and Smfoursh is slightly larger, being 6 years 7 months, slightly more than 6 years and 4 months.

  • @Adr16n1122
    @Adr16n1122 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +54

    In retrospect, its very funny that there was a struggle to find playable stages, but there was a mapmaker with some very neutral building blocks in the game at the same time.

    • @jayjaydeth
      @jayjaydeth 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +23

      The problem with that is coordinating all Wiis you're using for your tournament to have the exact same custom stage. Not only does it add time to set up, but you also have to get a sizeable portion of other TOs to agree on what said stage should even look like AND want to add it to the official legal stage list. Because otherwise, if you're not using the official stage list, you're not running an official tournament, so already a lot of players are simply not going to want to show up. But even then, if you don't care about all of that and you don't care about the turn out and you feel like you've created the greatest stage of all time, most people are just going to ban it anyway because they probably haven't played on it before and would rather play on a more comfortable stage.
      It's a good idea in theory, but I think that first complication is probably most of the reason why it wasn't implemented. Every TO in the history of ever is going to want to limit their potential headaches. A freely editable stage is definitely going in the "DO NOT WANT" pile.

  • @i8dacookies890
    @i8dacookies890 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +36

    Sample L? More like Sample W.

  • @JoSephGD
    @JoSephGD 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +23

    It's funny how Brawl's insanely lenient ruleset early on mirrors Melee's quite well. Melee's legal stage list wasn't set in stone by this point in time, no wonder that stages that took a while to be banned in Melee would also either show up or have a derivative stage show up in the legal stage list.

  • @ethans9379
    @ethans9379 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +27

    I'm always a little sad when fun stages are banned and the legal set of stages is tiny

    • @tefnutofhoney2832
      @tefnutofhoney2832 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Agreed. But hey, why should we care what the hygenically challenged say about a game.

  • @hoagieland3716
    @hoagieland3716 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    Honestly, one of the worst things to happen with later Smash titles was the complete homogenization of the stage list. A game like Smash Ultimate with more stages than ever plays with only like 5 unique platform layouts and no hazards with many of the counterpick stages just being very slight variations on the same exact layout (ie. the stage is very slightly longer or the blast zones are very slightly different). The only real issue with Brawl’s more spicy stages is MK himself being even more broken on them (especially Halberd and Delphino), but this can be remedied with the proposed stage clause ruleset to not allow MK to ever play in those stages without agreement. Don’t get me wrong, some stages in Brawl were absolutely terrible for competitive and were just awful to play on. But later Smash games taking away all of the more interesting stages is just another reason why I feel general interest in Smash tournaments has gone down

  • @Cainb23
    @Cainb23 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +61

    Unorthodox stages legal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watching matches on BF & FD clones every single match

    • @ckorp666
      @ckorp666 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

      ps2 was the worst thing about ult tournaments until steve. and they added like, three more stages w/that white bread layout too

    • @redmage5251
      @redmage5251 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      i imagine watching these stages is more fun than trying to have a competitive match on them though

    • @tefnutofhoney2832
      @tefnutofhoney2832 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@redmage5251no, its fun to play on them too.

    • @TheTrueBrawler
      @TheTrueBrawler 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@ckorp666 Constant Pokemon Stadium 2 is still the worst thing about Ultimate tournaments even in a post-Steve world. Funnily enough, Steve's extreme prominence in the meta just makes the stage problem even more baffling. Like, why do people willingly letting Steve players gentleman rule their way onto the character's best stage, counterpicks included?

  • @Xyrofen
    @Xyrofen 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I was there, Gandalf.
    There was so much jank in the early days of Brawl, on top of how strange the game works on its own. Tournaments were so...backroom and/or underground despite there being a small resurgence of MLG, Evo, and excitement around a new Smash game.
    I've got so many stories. The simplest, and from the first (the Gamestop) tournament I went to, being that we were handed controllers, not allowed to use our own, not told which port we were, not allowed to pick our character, and then the other player and I immediately running off the stage at the same time because we didn't know who we were playing as (thinking we were the other character). Really set the tone for playing that game competitively.
    Also, everything I ever did with the Smash Twins in Oregon. So much...stuff.

  • @lisatroiani6119
    @lisatroiani6119 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    imagine if, after like a big competitive tournament or something, there was an anti-competitive game, items on, and every legal stage gets inverted (banned stages are legal and legal stages are banned) that’d be pretty fun and a nice breather

  • @blue-eyesdepresseddragon3753
    @blue-eyesdepresseddragon3753 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +33

    I genuinely believe god doesn't want Justin Wong to have nice things LMAO

  • @jadetealaaron2003
    @jadetealaaron2003 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +53

    10:43
    I love how the title card for the SMW Yoshi's Island stage is just "Bro..."
    It's not even the stage name lmaooo 😭

  • @Trekiros
    @Trekiros 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    As an old brawl player, every one of your videos makes me don the biggest nostalgia grin. Like, yes, of course Brinstar was legal, it was a great stage! Diddy Kong could make his bananas bounce up to 4 times on the blobs, and you could use the tendons to refresh your moves! And yes of course on the slanted edges of Yoshi's Island, you would use tilts that were affected by the slope, allowing you to use things like a dtilt as an antiair for example.
    It never took off, but I remember at some point there even was a small movement I was really into, where people started advocating for a list of I think it was 2 custom stages built by the community, which would help get us to 5 "actually neutral neutrals". The reason that fizzled out is, TOs refused to have to deal with the added logistics of ensuring those stages would be present on every single console.
    That was a wild time but I remember it all so fondly.

  • @timnoskill
    @timnoskill 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +39

    would love to see a vid just on brawl evo 08, where a random kid randomly joined bc he was on vacation and brought out the rob to beat ken's legendary marth to win the entire thing

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +21

      Coney said he wanted to make a video on this so I'm avoiding the topic :)

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +23

      you might also note near the end of the video i say "mid level players struggle to kill on skyworld" and its direct footage from evo2008 grands LMFAO

    • @timnoskill
      @timnoskill 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Brawlternative sounds good, I’ve been waiting on a vid on it from someone since it’s such a wild story - I even went ahead and wrote half of a script before I ended up scrapping it. Grands was so funny 😂

    • @CONEYZZ
      @CONEYZZ 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      ​@@Brawlternative its all yours friend

  • @wavebuster61
    @wavebuster61 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    I wish current rulesets for smash Ultimate could do a better job at finding a middle ground between competitive and whimsical. My biggest gripe with the game is the stagelist... two PS2s, two smashvilles, everything is so painfully neutral what's even the point of counterpicking? Great video as always

  • @Glory2Snowstar
    @Glory2Snowstar 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +25

    That rant starting at 10:17 is the magnum opus of Brawl's stage analysis.
    S-tier channel, thank you for a hilarious lunch break!

  • @Goldenleyend
    @Goldenleyend 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Watching brawl with items on in EVO was surreal, and it honestly feels like that's the essence of smash. Having fun.

  • @theSato
    @theSato 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    holy shit you actually do the most kino editing, IMO you are going way above and beyond even the gold standard that AsumSaus set for Melee with this channel. Hope you don't burn yourself out by COOKING SO MUCH FINE GOURMET CUISINE sir
    the That 70s Show overlay parody was probably my favorite of this episode, but man, so many good edits and they're all noticed and appreciated by this viewer
    it may become a reoccurring trend where I just comment about all of your edits on every episode to give them the praise they earn lmao
    p.s. you ruin my day a little every time you say "smfoursh" but I am entering the acceptance phase about it....

  • @Suprapika
    @Suprapika 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I'm glad you got to show that Ivysaur swing thing on Pirate Ship, good thing someone mentioned that in the Ivysaur video.

  • @haidynwendlandt2479
    @haidynwendlandt2479 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    That sitcom advertisement in the corner to subscribe is easily the best way that I’ve ever seen it done

  • @TheLetterJ0
    @TheLetterJ0 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    It's been years since I last played Brawl, so I had forgotten how many goofy fun stages there were.

  • @telreyne
    @telreyne 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    We are definitely in the Brawl Renaissance and god is it beautiful

  • @cr4sh25
    @cr4sh25 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +45

    Just for the record. Saying that we didn't know what made a viable stage is innacurate. The lists were intentional and we knew exactly what we were doing. It was just a different philosophy. Many more of those stages are perfectly fair competitively than y'all think, but they got whittled away mostly because people weren't having fun with them. Also mk. Thing like green greens infinites notwithstanding, some stuff really was broke.
    If you want to blame or praise someone for the insanity of the stage list suspect #1 is probably Overswarm, he's on yt too.

    • @Tybis
      @Tybis 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +29

      I think people don't want to admit that stage lists are mostly based on what players enjoy, and not on some objective scientific analysis or whatever.

    • @xolotltolox7626
      @xolotltolox7626 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@Tybisyeah, in ultimate, so many stages that would be perfectly fine are banned because players are whiny bitches, especially with slopes
      Or shit like "oh my god the background of northern cave is so dizzying", shut up and get over it, you're a grown ass man. Get a medical exemption if it's such a big deal
      They just want 5 FD

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      at the end of the day this is a fun little video with some theatrics and dramatics, but I can admit that I might've played this specific aspect up a little too much lol

    • @cr4sh25
      @cr4sh25 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      @@Brawlternative Oh you're good man!
      Honestly this feels like the least accurate of your videos. Jungle Japes for instance is very near the bottom of the list for viability (like, below pirate ship probably), green greens was banned for wall infinites and blast zones not the bombs etc, but that's so easy to forgive with how high the quality is on these videos.
      You got most things right and I absolutely ADORE that you're putting together huge-effort videos from a game that's been so important in my life.
      Keep it the fuck up, dude. Huge props.

  • @agoaj
    @agoaj 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I won my local Brawl launch tournament, got lucky enough that Marth was unlocked by the time I was up, I remember destroying a Meta Knight on Maze. It was less a smash tournament and more of a russian roulette exhibition.

    • @agoaj
      @agoaj 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      They gave me a wrestling trophy for winning, and I couldn't move on to regionals because I was flying out that night for an internship at Treyarch.

  • @EternalYoshi
    @EternalYoshi 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I remember a different list and that's because Tristate stage lists were generally more conservative. Generally, if a stage was banned, it was either banned much earlier in tristate or not legal at all.
    For example, by 2014, Halberd and Delfino Plaza were both banned in many tristate events becuase Meta Knight and his sharking was too overbearing on those stages.
    Anyway, Rainbow Cruise was a popular counterpick against characters that stayed on the ground more or focused more on stage control, such as Snake, Diddy Kong, and Ice Climbers. When the stage got banned, those 3 characters' stonks went up.

  • @Wizzkidwas
    @Wizzkidwas 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    I've always wondered why there was never a standardised custom stage that was competitively viable
    Glad to see it did actually happen once

  • @Martini_1911
    @Martini_1911 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Hell yeah, opening with "It's Going Down Now" as background music goes HARD. I love the Persona 3 Reload soundtrack

  • @cbd075
    @cbd075 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    I love the escalating energy as the counterpick stages got crazier, your content is so great man I’m always hype to see you pop up in my notifs

  • @KnightFerrocous
    @KnightFerrocous 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    It is really funny to me how Nintendo didn't learn from how one sided and unfun a lot of the Brawl maps were and seemingly doubled down on bad maps in Smash 4. That game had so many unfun gimmick maps it was insane.

  • @johnstevenson3628
    @johnstevenson3628 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    4:09-4:44 This was the best explanation of the typical tournament stage selection that I've ever seen. Everything works together to make it an informative, yet concise explanation.

  • @CHEESE_BUNGER_mush
    @CHEESE_BUNGER_mush 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    Sample L: Maze was always my favourite smash bros stage. Shame they had to ban it after the first tournament

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      I was always more of a Sample S: Hole kind of guy personally

  • @jonacarweenie
    @jonacarweenie 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Loving this channel! Brawl is just old enough to start getting nostalgic over and I think that's the reason me and so many others have been loving these videos about it's history

  • @AndrewAJT
    @AndrewAJT 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Good video. To be fair about the crazy stages, the other smash games also had stages like that legal in the past. Melee had pokefloats, rainbow cruise, corneria, green greens, and mute city legal. 64 had Hyrule and peach’s castle legal in the past. Eventually all 3 games started narrowing their stage lists around the same time

  • @HexNSplat
    @HexNSplat 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I think no one has mentioned this yet but DUDEEEEEE that intro of pikachu... looked SUPER SICKED loved that entire section LOL

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      thank you!! wanted to do something different w the intro since it's stayed the same across all the other vids :)

  • @papapatches5546
    @papapatches5546 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    if you run into the boat from the water on the left side of pirate ship, the boat will kill you as well.
    edit: as well as on green greens, some characters like dedede have infinite chain grabs because of the walls there

  • @VocalMabiMaple
    @VocalMabiMaple 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    That subscription reminder was so fucking smooth holy shit

  • @Radenovic
    @Radenovic 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Rainbow Cruise was honestly a much better counterpick than many of the other listed counterpicks. Probably because of its lack of randomness, making it more rewarding to play on because you could actively learn the stage without risking being fucked over at the stage's whim. Of course, the layout was asymmetric, and some spots were obviously better to control than others, but at least its constantly changing layout made it impossible to camp a single spot throughout the entire match, making it less problematic than something like Corneria.
    Different sections also favored different character archetypes, so you could even see some cool character-specific comebacks, which gave the stage some flavor. There's a reason why RC outlasted many of the other stages on that list, even if it did deserve to be removed in the end.
    It was also legal in Melee for a time, so there was obviously SOMETHING that made people want to play on it.
    I'd also like to give a special shoutout to a super obscure counterpick that I saw in a few local areas during early Brawl: Create-a-stage.
    Terribly unbalanced, competitively unviable, and a logistical nightmare, but man was it funny to see someone just open the stage builder and throw shit on the screen and see what would happen in game 2.

  • @patricktinley6581
    @patricktinley6581 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Innocent Sin music? I didn't know you liked persona 2 like that. Great video

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  19 วันที่ผ่านมา

      always been a turn-based grid combat kinda guy :)

  • @lakidaalakisda700
    @lakidaalakisda700 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    looooove watching the clean-as-hell visual work on your vids.

  • @autismcenteral7306
    @autismcenteral7306 10 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    You deserve an Oscar for editing, great job!

  • @backwardslongjump
    @backwardslongjump 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Man the editing in this video is so good. Incredible stuff

  • @cameronhoglan
    @cameronhoglan 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The editing on these videos is always ridiculously good

  • @maybestunner
    @maybestunner 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Dude I love your editing

  • @stormRed
    @stormRed 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This editing style is jaw-dropping!

  • @pmahcgop6693
    @pmahcgop6693 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Love every video you’ve been posting and the persona music works so well.

  • @worrier
    @worrier 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    This channel rocks! Can't wait to watch all your previous videos too!

  • @appliedatoms7066
    @appliedatoms7066 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Honestly, I miss this mentality. The idea of "of course we can play on Rainbow Cruise, you seen the rest of this game?" Before balance was this venerated deity.
    Nowadays Ultimate smashville doesn't even have the moving platforms because that's a "hazard," apparently. How far we have fallen.

  • @tarhackle3503
    @tarhackle3503 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    For anyone who doesn’t know the current Brawl ruleset (and the standard since at least 2015) it’s been:
    Starters: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi’s Island, Lylat
    Counterpick: Pokemon Stadium 1
    1 ban mDSR (you can’t go back to the last stage you won on)
    Considering it took until 2015 for Smash 4 to get rid of all the bad stages except for Duck Hunt, it’s not a surprise Brawl’s lasted that long.

  • @AnarchoCatBoyEthan
    @AnarchoCatBoyEthan 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    good video! nice lil bumper, what a cute idea

  • @TheTolnoc
    @TheTolnoc 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I appreciate that the Brawl players of old weren't bitches about stage.

  • @thatgamingkiwi1630
    @thatgamingkiwi1630 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I remember as a kid making a stage simply titled "Watch da spikes". It was a long row of spikes with an equally long platform of falling blocks placed above. Because of how the spikes worked and the platforms being solid it meant if you fell on the spikes ONCE you'd get stuck under the platform, being bounced around by the spikes until someone freed you.

  • @kodra1510
    @kodra1510 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    You really upped your game man this videos so well edited

  • @cullenhutchison6528
    @cullenhutchison6528 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I remember making a stage I called "Sample L 2.0" in Stage Builder that was similar to Sample L: Maze but took inspiration from the layout of Temple as well. As a casual, it was one of my go-to custom stages to play on with my family.

  • @anna_arw6006
    @anna_arw6006 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I really appreciate the period accurate Persona 3/4 music and aesthetics used here. Its a really nice touch. Thanks for another great video BT

  • @BandanaD3ssb
    @BandanaD3ssb 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Coney wake up new brawlternative vid dropped Edit: ur vids are sick

  • @cr4sh25
    @cr4sh25 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Seeing so many of my old friends in this video was so fantastic. Holy cow

  • @Rubberbandman1991
    @Rubberbandman1991 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Two notes to make:
    Yoshi's island brawl has tech for DK and Sonic where they can become fully invincible using Up B and Spin Dash respectively on the edges of the stage so thats always a knowledge check vs them
    Frigate Orphen's flip doesn't just screw you over and make you recover if you aren't in the air: it can just outright instant kill you off the top if you aren't in the air.

  • @lordscottish69
    @lordscottish69 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    God bless whoever was recording the Sample L match

  • @vgzombie
    @vgzombie 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Your music choices are always impeccable.

  • @jahbariw5534
    @jahbariw5534 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Absolutely loving the persona music, sound effects, and visual effects in this one!

  • @LexSchilperoord
    @LexSchilperoord 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I do enjoy how you go out of your way to explain what a "walkoff" is, but just casually drop the term "fight club" now and then. It's pretty self-explanatory, but I feel that's even more true for walkoffs

    • @CirnoFairy
      @CirnoFairy 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I guess he didn't want to talk about it.

  • @StepBaum
    @StepBaum 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great video, from the editing, to the presentation of what you said and the music choice

  • @FlamingZelda3
    @FlamingZelda3 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    brawl youtube content is one of my favorite things in the world.
    thanks for the video!

  • @unibrawn
    @unibrawn 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    thank you for your work chef

  • @souplife1
    @souplife1 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    omg the 70's show ad banner holy shit

  • @Materialist39
    @Materialist39 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I played through brawl single player (a bit of multiplayer) and was never a super big fan, even casually and before knowing anything about the comp scene I preferred melee. But man every video of yours has been absolute fire. I am learning so much weird trivia and history about this game, and enjoying all of it.
    Keep it up dude, you’ve got the sauce for this.

  • @AtmaDragoon
    @AtmaDragoon 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    The Brawl release tournament; I participated in that! Don't remember if I knew beforehand that Pit was going to be on the roster, but I was _so_ excited to see how he played, and what all from Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters would be incorporated into his kit. GG's to the Fox player who ended up victorious in our match; who knows if learning mid-fight that my down b reflects lasers would've changed anything. :B

  • @famicom180
    @famicom180 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just commenting to say that brawl was my favorite childhood game and I’m so hyped to have found a TH-camr that specifically focuses on this entry of the smash series. Instant subscribe for me dawg.

  • @shatteringstar8335
    @shatteringstar8335 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Holy shit the production on these videos is insane

  • @baronesscatfish
    @baronesscatfish 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This video has AMAZING editing and comedic timing.. kept me interested & entertained the whole time. It also brought back a lot of good memories, because Brawl released right when I was in high school. My best friend and I took it really seriously and would host tournaments at our high school. We did our best to come up with our own competitive rulesets, like no items & a stage list similar to the 2014 rules, with no knowledge of the outside competitive community, tier lists, or anything of the sort. I remember watching the other kids do Shiek forward-tilt chains or spam Kirby down-special, and win! It was obviously a bit wild but, the innocence of it makes it a really fun period in my life. Glad to hear we weren't too far off from SBR. I've fallen away from Smash as I've gotten older, and Brawl remains my absolute favorite, even with all its strangeness. Thanks :)

  • @vollrathfgc
    @vollrathfgc 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    During work i was legit thinking it had been a while since you uploaded
    I get home and youve uploaded
    This happens a lot with me

  • @RokusWing
    @RokusWing 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Such a good video! Keep it up

  • @DevelonLP
    @DevelonLP 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    you dont know how much it means to me that there is an active brawl channel and even better one that documents and is about history and knowledge. thank you so much

  • @worldscoolestperson7672
    @worldscoolestperson7672 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    why do I find your videos interesting, i don’t even play this game

    • @Brawlternative
      @Brawlternative  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Thanks for checking it out even if it's not in your usual wheelhouse :)

  • @philcoast1031
    @philcoast1031 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I might've only played Brawl casually back in the day, but I love your videos both for the deep dives on all the things I missed or didn't notice, and your style and production values (and music choice - Dominic Ninmark rules). Can't wait for the next one.

  • @competitively3315
    @competitively3315 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    One of the best smash channels right now. Keep up your good work.

  • @jazzofjustice5069
    @jazzofjustice5069 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    music in the video is fire man love seeing some early persona representation

  • @Sizzyl
    @Sizzyl 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Ive been having so much fun running it back on PM recently

  • @MaximumRK
    @MaximumRK 20 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Whoa Brawl had an actual meta and stagelist? That’s awesome. I’m gonna keep checking you out.