Loved the video! I can really tell that you know what you are talking about based from experience. You really show how the skill of the driver is more important than the set of tires you are running. I do not know if I will ever buy a set of stickies, but informative nonetheless. Thinking about a set of 37" trail grapplers for my Jeep.
Appreciate your time with this. I would like to have seen a comparison on the 42 inch red to the trepador compound tires. With the difference in wheel size would equate to a smaller sidewall on the BFG. You stated that the 20 wheel was "less desirable", but I think that is pretty subjective or at least seemed to be presented in that way. I am looking at getting a set of 42s and leaning toward the treps because the 17 inch wheel can use other tire options of similar size. That is one way I could at least qualitatively back up that statement. Either way, loving your videos, I called Branik already because of your video on the 14 bolt rear steer.
Great video comparison! Not a negative comment in any way, but one thing to keep in mind is that when a tire is used vs new it has been heat cycled. It will read harder after its been heat cycled. Red used vs Trep new. The Trep is a softer tire from what I remember.
Good vid.. the reason east coast rigs prefer things like say a SX is cause we don’t have the long steep slick smooth rock faces.. we have bolder after bolder.. for us giving up some stick for something that’s a little knobbier is what’s needed to pull yourself over those boulders. The one thing you didn’t really address though was off camber stability and traction between tire types.. that’s really where sticky’s shine over most others. Nittos or SX will have a lot more tendency to slip and slide sideways then a true comp style tire. This is again a big difference between climbing a slick rock on the edge of a ravine or climbing boulders where if you roll you are likely to just side flop into the next rock vs tumbling to the bottom. The tire you run has a lot more to do with where you’re wheeling then anything else.. people I know out west with same rigs and experience will run treps where those same here locally will usually run iroks. I used to run bloggers for the longest time. People would laugh but those big lugs did their job. I would never consider such a tire out west though as they won’t even grip hard pack clay more less slick smooth rock. I’d never run reds or treps out here. While they do help sometimes.. they loose all their advantage soon as you hit a soupy mud puddle between boulders.. lugs aren’t big enough and the don’t clean themselves well enough leaving you with not much more then all terrains at that point.
Very informative. I used to run Iroks and always thought they were very soft rubber compound because they were fantastic in snow. I guess I was wrong...I wonder what durometer reading the competition Iroks read. Mine were bias ply 38/15.50
Great video - great comparison, would like to see a deeper dive on the sticky TSLs which seem very good here on the east coast (as you mentioned) Have wheeled 40" Sticky Treps on the east coast for quite a few years and have found they work well in all conditions. Just bought 42s and found the cold weather warnings from the manufacturer disconcerting. Never really noticed any issues in the winter with my 40s... Definitely not in my budget to run two set of tires, we will see - great comparison!
I’m mid Atlantic also and building up a dedicated trail TJ and was debating some sticky tires but still want to be able to play on the snow sometimes. Have the Treps done ok in snow?
They throw snowballs! Clear easily yes I have been very pleased.. still can’t figure why the cold weather warning? I’ve hammered them up icy rocks etc with no issues... guessing maybe if it is super cold they will chunk easily? I usually opt out if its in the low teens anyway, certainly have wheeled below 30 degrees with no complaints
@@kc510 They are horrible in the snow compared to your average street compound tire. The Iroks and Trail Grapplers on my Jeeps will run circles around the Treps in the snow. My buddies red labels are also horrible in the snow. Did you watch the Durometer tests in this video? Stickies get much harder as the compound gets colder - proven fact. Street compound tires are made with a rubber formula that maintains good traction characteristics across all temperatures.
@@jameshooper4038 As mentioned in the video, the "glass transition temperature" of sticky tire compounds is very high compared to street compound tires. Every time you run your stickies frozen, you cross this threshold; and in addition to poor performance from a rock-hard tire, you are creating micro-fractures in the rubber and breaking down it's chemical composition faster than normal. At $800 per tire, my stickies are staying out of the snow from now on.
Wow. I am in the most random spiral of topics and found your video. This is not my hobby in the slightest but frick, I love your vid. Makes me wanna drive over some rocks (I’m a rock climber lol the other kind of climbing)
Bro which tire do you recommend? for desert driving lots of sand and desert terrain. Also theres high speed desert driving with low pressure. 4200lbs rig
Fantastic,informative video. I loved your fact based, objective opinion. I just have one question which I didn't hear you cover. Which one seems to hold better in off camber side hill situations?
Sooo..... The durometer test was interesting. It seemed to imply that Nitto's street compound was within a few units of red labels? Does real world testing show that the Nitto street compound performs like the red labels?
No, because there are other factors at play other than durometer readings (softness). The Red Labels are the only stickies made with an open-cell rubber compound, which compensates for the increased harness properties. No non-sticky street tire will perform like a sticky in the rocks. But, I would definitely say that the Trail Grappler street compound is probably the stickiest of all the street tires.
My wheel base is 110 on my trail buggy and I currently run 39” Reds. Thinking of stepping up to 42” Trepps, and wondering about my overall handling changes. I am on the east coast. Any info is appreciated.
Yea, didn't go that deep because the video was running too long. I left out oxidation (age-hardening) and void ratio too. But, the closed-cell Treps are supposed to be more immune to the effects of freezing temps; and I found that to not be true. Reds and Treps both get bad as the temps drop. But the open-cell compound of the red is obviously responsible for its flex and pliability, and the closed-cell compound of the Trep makes it more durable. Maxxis compensated for the closed-cell compound by making it really soft. Two different approaches to accomplishing the same thing.
Wow what a great video. I'm currently building my 2002 jeep tj and I was hoping someone could point me on the right direction as far as what is the best all round tires to run. I'm setting it up for rock crawling though it will be a duel purpose rig. Meaning it will see a lot of hiway use from the Bay area to the Rubicon. So. To me it sounds like a set of 35 or 36" Nitto Grapplers is probably my best bang for the buck. However if you know of something better suited for this application would you please give me som ideas.
As a heads up (I know your post is old) I have run 6-7 sets of grapplers in everything from a 35 to a 40. I love them for a general off road tire. However the 40in version is a night and day difference from the others. The rubber seemed to be much softer, sidewall flexed better, and the performance was way better. In a 35in category you definitely want to stay away from 18in or bigger wheels because the tire compounds are harder. The best 35in “street” capable off road tire I have seen in general use off road was the nitto mud grappler. It seemed to hook as hard as the 40 trail grappler and its wide for a 12.50 tire. They are loud on the street but the capability seemed to be a step up in every category vs the trail grappler off road.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg hey man ,thanks for your response. This is some very useful information. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a set of 5 17" method trail series wheels and had 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers mounted on them. Availability dictated my choice. From what I've heard, these tires are pretty soft and ware out pretty quick. Hopefully I'll be able to get mud Grapplers next time. Again, much appreciation for your response and sharing valuable information.
Is that the same Richard ‘Goatman’ Gauthier that use to drive a yellow XJ out there way back in the day .. and latter XJ buggy in the Hammers race? How about Porch Puppy .. he still active out there? Been many years since being in the sport, which there were videos like this back in the day when I was active. Thanks for the cool channel this now armchair crawler enjoys 👍
I dunno Bruh... If I heat up my Auturo Trail Blades I can own every obstacle I roll up on! As an added bonus I can get a set of 4 for what one of those "Reds" or "Treps"... Don't be fooled! ;)
I find the fact that most tires manufactures blatantly lie about tire size disgusting.. I mean... charge more.. but give me a tire that matches the size of whatever is stamped on the side.. When we go to the grocery store to buy 10 pounds of meat... we get 10 pounds... not 8.5 pounds...
Of course, most of the east coast buggies I wheel with say just the opposite!!! They claim that the reds just don't hold up to sidewall punctures from roots and branches like the Treps do, and that the Treps handle the sloppy mud sections of trail better than the Reds. I would actually say that the TSL SX is the king of the east.
@@chrisdesertdog2162 I can respect that, my friends and I have have excellent all around success out of the Krawler tires. I still see a lot of swampers and iroks around here as well. I am mainly referencing "here" with Windrock.
In a sea of crappy tire videos this was the island I needed to land on. I learned a lot. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Right on Chris I love your videos. Always learn a hell of a lot. No bs and no pushy sales gimmicks disguised as a review. Just honesty.
That's a good comparison! I liked the durometer testing to see where different tires fell. Solid work
You did an excellent job explaining the differences, thanks for doing a video I learned a lot!!!
Finally a quality review/comparison. THANK YOU!!
Loved the video! I can really tell that you know what you are talking about based from experience. You really show how the skill of the driver is more important than the set of tires you are running. I do not know if I will ever buy a set of stickies, but informative nonetheless. Thinking about a set of 37" trail grapplers for my Jeep.
Fantastic review. Thank you very much. I already have 42 treps waiting for to go on for summer. But loved the review anyway. You covered it all 👍🏻
thanks for an awesome video!!! thanks for taking the time to do this! really appreciate it!
Very well put together video. Extremely thought out. Thank you
Was kind of hoping to fun into you and your crew either out at hammers last week or ridgecrest this week. Great vid as always. Keep em coming!
Nice review 👍I love my 40s treps on my Jeep ....excellent tire and grip ✅
Superb video again, thank you!
Appreciate your time with this. I would like to have seen a comparison on the 42 inch red to the trepador compound tires. With the difference in wheel size would equate to a smaller sidewall on the BFG. You stated that the 20 wheel was "less desirable", but I think that is pretty subjective or at least seemed to be presented in that way. I am looking at getting a set of 42s and leaning toward the treps because the 17 inch wheel can use other tire options of similar size. That is one way I could at least qualitatively back up that statement. Either way, loving your videos, I called Branik already because of your video on the 14 bolt rear steer.
Well said! It all depends on the driver/rig combo.
I agree 10000000% on every single thing you said here
Great video comparison! Not a negative comment in any way, but one thing to keep in mind is that when a tire is used vs new it has been heat cycled. It will read harder after its been heat cycled. Red used vs Trep new. The Trep is a softer tire from what I remember.
Bad ass video and comparison. Thanks!
Awesome info bud. Sold me at glass transition temps.
Thanks for the great video
Hard hitting facts. I love it
Great video man.
It really helps when the person spotting you has crawling experience as well. I have seen spotters ruin a experience drivers line.
Very good info thanks
Great Video Thanks!
Good vid.. the reason east coast rigs prefer things like say a SX is cause we don’t have the long steep slick smooth rock faces.. we have bolder after bolder.. for us giving up some stick for something that’s a little knobbier is what’s needed to pull yourself over those boulders.
The one thing you didn’t really address though was off camber stability and traction between tire types.. that’s really where sticky’s shine over most others. Nittos or SX will have a lot more tendency to slip and slide sideways then a true comp style tire. This is again a big difference between climbing a slick rock on the edge of a ravine or climbing boulders where if you roll you are likely to just side flop into the next rock vs tumbling to the bottom.
The tire you run has a lot more to do with where you’re wheeling then anything else.. people I know out west with same rigs and experience will run treps where those same here locally will usually run iroks. I used to run bloggers for the longest time. People would laugh but those big lugs did their job. I would never consider such a tire out west though as they won’t even grip hard pack clay more less slick smooth rock. I’d never run reds or treps out here. While they do help sometimes.. they loose all their advantage soon as you hit a soupy mud puddle between boulders.. lugs aren’t big enough and the don’t clean themselves well enough leaving you with not much more then all terrains at that point.
hey boss great info, thanks
Very informative. I used to run Iroks and always thought they were very soft rubber compound because they were fantastic in snow. I guess I was wrong...I wonder what durometer reading the competition Iroks read. Mine were bias ply 38/15.50
Great video - great comparison, would like to see a deeper dive on the sticky TSLs which seem very good here on the east coast (as you mentioned) Have wheeled 40" Sticky Treps on the east coast for quite a few years and have found they work well in all conditions. Just bought 42s and found the cold weather warnings from the manufacturer disconcerting. Never really noticed any issues in the winter with my 40s... Definitely not in my budget to run two set of tires, we will see - great comparison!
I’m mid Atlantic also and building up a dedicated trail TJ and was debating some sticky tires but still want to be able to play on the snow sometimes. Have the Treps done ok in snow?
They throw snowballs! Clear easily yes I have been very pleased.. still can’t figure why the cold weather warning? I’ve hammered them up icy rocks etc with no issues... guessing maybe if it is super cold they will chunk easily? I usually opt out if its in the low teens anyway, certainly have wheeled below 30 degrees with no complaints
@@kc510 They are horrible in the snow compared to your average street compound tire. The Iroks and Trail Grapplers on my Jeeps will run circles around the Treps in the snow. My buddies red labels are also horrible in the snow. Did you watch the Durometer tests in this video? Stickies get much harder as the compound gets colder - proven fact. Street compound tires are made with a rubber formula that maintains good traction characteristics across all temperatures.
@@jameshooper4038 As mentioned in the video, the "glass transition temperature" of sticky tire compounds is very high compared to street compound tires. Every time you run your stickies frozen, you cross this threshold; and in addition to poor performance from a rock-hard tire, you are creating micro-fractures in the rubber and breaking down it's chemical composition faster than normal. At $800 per tire, my stickies are staying out of the snow from now on.
Is there a non sticky trep?
Awesome video. Makes me wonder how the Reds would do if they kept the more pliable sidewalls and also went to a softer compound (like the Treps).
Who knows. The open cell rubber compound of the Reds doesn't seem like it needs the softness like the other closed-cell compounds do.
Wow. I am in the most random spiral of topics and found your video. This is not my hobby in the slightest but frick, I love your vid. Makes me wanna drive over some rocks (I’m a rock climber lol the other kind of climbing)
Bro which tire do you recommend? for desert driving lots of sand and desert terrain. Also theres high speed desert driving with low pressure. 4200lbs rig
Fantastic,informative video. I loved your fact based, objective opinion. I just have one question which I didn't hear you cover. Which one seems to hold better in off camber side hill situations?
Definitely the Trep with its stiffer carcass.
Really interesting video!!!
Trepador means climber in spanish, if someone asks where the name came from!!!
Sooo..... The durometer test was interesting. It seemed to imply that Nitto's street compound was within a few units of red labels? Does real world testing show that the Nitto street compound performs like the red labels?
No, because there are other factors at play other than durometer readings (softness). The Red Labels are the only stickies made with an open-cell rubber compound, which compensates for the increased harness properties. No non-sticky street tire will perform like a sticky in the rocks. But, I would definitely say that the Trail Grappler street compound is probably the stickiest of all the street tires.
Anyone have an accurate height/width measurement of a 39.5 red and 37 red?
My wheel base is 110 on my trail buggy and I currently run 39” Reds.
Thinking of stepping up to 42” Trepps, and wondering about my overall handling changes.
I am on the east coast.
Any info is appreciated.
42's will do fine with 110" wheel base. Most rock buggies out west are running that combo with a low belly height.
The rig in the opening shot...is that a custom chassis or one available from a vendor? Hard to tell at that angle, but I like it!
Ok...video answered question...it's a Rock Lizard.
@@clemsonjeep1 Yep, its a Lizard. You can see the build video on my youtube channel.
Maybe I missed it.I heard you talk about different chemical compounds but I don't think you mentioned open cell vs closed cell.Cool video though.
Yea, didn't go that deep because the video was running too long. I left out oxidation (age-hardening) and void ratio too. But, the closed-cell Treps are supposed to be more immune to the effects of freezing temps; and I found that to not be true. Reds and Treps both get bad as the temps drop. But the open-cell compound of the red is obviously responsible for its flex and pliability, and the closed-cell compound of the Trep makes it more durable. Maxxis compensated for the closed-cell compound by making it really soft. Two different approaches to accomplishing the same thing.
Wow what a great video.
I'm currently building my 2002 jeep tj and I was hoping someone could point me on the right direction as far as what is the best all round tires to run.
I'm setting it up for rock crawling though it will be a duel purpose rig. Meaning it will see a lot of hiway use from the Bay area to the Rubicon. So. To me it sounds like a set of 35 or 36" Nitto Grapplers is probably my best bang for the buck. However if you know of something better suited for this application would you please give me som ideas.
As a heads up (I know your post is old) I have run 6-7 sets of grapplers in everything from a 35 to a 40. I love them for a general off road tire. However the 40in version is a night and day difference from the others. The rubber seemed to be much softer, sidewall flexed better, and the performance was way better. In a 35in category you definitely want to stay away from 18in or bigger wheels because the tire compounds are harder. The best 35in “street” capable off road tire I have seen in general use off road was the nitto mud grappler. It seemed to hook as hard as the 40 trail grappler and its wide for a 12.50 tire. They are loud on the street but the capability seemed to be a step up in every category vs the trail grappler off road.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg hey man ,thanks for your response.
This is some very useful information.
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a set of 5 17" method trail series wheels and had 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers mounted on them.
Availability dictated my choice.
From what I've heard, these tires are pretty soft and ware out pretty quick.
Hopefully I'll be able to get mud Grapplers next time.
Again, much appreciation for your response and sharing valuable information.
Is that the same Richard ‘Goatman’ Gauthier that use to drive a yellow XJ out there way back in the day .. and latter XJ buggy in the Hammers race? How about Porch Puppy .. he still active out there? Been many years since being in the sport, which there were videos like this back in the day when I was active. Thanks for the cool channel this now armchair crawler enjoys 👍
The same Richard "Goatman" Gauthier. He now drives a rear-steer single seat buggy.
Ever put your durometer on a 40 or 42 MT/R?
No. The sidewalls on those tires are so weak, that no Rock Crawlers here locally run them anymore.
@@chrisdesertdog2162 good to know and that partially explains why they’re so lightweight too.
@@chrisdesertdog2162 what reputation does the Pro Comp MT2 have in your area?
longevity on treps vs reds?
Treps have bigger lugs, but a softer compound. Its a wash.
@@chrisdesertdog2162 I figured the break in presses would ad longevity. Good to know thanks
I dunno Bruh... If I heat up my Auturo Trail Blades I can own every obstacle I roll up on! As an added bonus I can get a set of 4 for what one of those "Reds" or "Treps"... Don't be fooled!
;)
Trail Blades are too extreme for my channel.
I find the fact that most tires manufactures blatantly lie about tire size disgusting.. I mean... charge more.. but give me a tire that matches the size of whatever is stamped on the side.. When we go to the grocery store to buy 10 pounds of meat... we get 10 pounds... not 8.5 pounds...
All see at the Hammers..
I must be going against nature because I’ve been telling everyone that my Mickey Thompson baja boss 40s suck haha
The compound is good, the tread pattern sucks.
Reds in the east, Treps in the west.
Of course, most of the east coast buggies I wheel with say just the opposite!!! They claim that the reds just don't hold up to sidewall punctures from roots and branches like the Treps do, and that the Treps handle the sloppy mud sections of trail better than the Reds. I would actually say that the TSL SX is the king of the east.
@@chrisdesertdog2162 I can respect that, my friends and I have have excellent all around success out of the Krawler tires. I still see a lot of swampers and iroks around here as well. I am mainly referencing "here" with Windrock.