(Star Wars Star Destoyers) | Why Did The Empire RUIN The Victory-class?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- The Victory 2-class Star Destroyer is an insult to the Victory-1 missile barrage heritage. But for good reason. See a complete Star Wars ship comparison to the Victory-1 class, Imperial class Star Destroyer, the Venator and many other Star Wars capital ships. This complete breakdown of the Victory-2 will have you appreciating how the Empire had to adapt to the new Rebel Alliance threat.
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One thing that was neglected was the new engine layout and retrofit the V2 undertook, making it significantly faster. Other than that, the V1 was way better.
And maybe a move from two to three main engines?
The changes do make some sense, but I wish they had taken a page from the Vindicator handbook.
Don't drop weapons, shields, and armor; instead drop ground forces.
In the Vindicator's case, she drops ground forces for an expanded hanger.
I could see the Victory doing something similar. Though instead of gaining fighters, she instead gains firepower.
I love the vindicator heavy cruiser, shit ton of firepower
I dont remember the last time he said he didn't like a ship, intresting.
I do. Women never forget the bad stuff. But seriously though, I think it was his video on either the HWK 290 freighter or tie uglies/ tie squints or those slow B wings. He's honest on his fighter analysis. Not simply blinding loving everything Starwars. I bet he also hates plot armor, regardless on which ship has it equipped!
The Victory-1 and 2 are possibly my favorite imperial capital ship.
My favorite is Gladiator-I and II class,smaller,faster,better armed and better shields
My favorites are either sovereign,onager,bellator or the eclipse
Why does no one likes nebula it's better than all imperial ships
@@shauryapallav5674 They said favorite Imperial ship, not favorite New Republic ship. Personally, I love the Nebula and Victory-1.
1:42 Torture droids…How pedestrian.
*Bor Gullet can feel your thoughts. No lie is safe. [...] Bor Gullet will know the truth. The unfortunate side-effect is that one tends to lose one's mind.*
The funny thing the empire did use the Bor species for interrogating certain prisoners as seen in the Doctor Aphra series.
It actually makes more sense from a logistics chain to replace the single use concussion missiles with a heavier gun battery, the concussion missiles need replacing and on long deployments would run low, the Victory 2 on the other hand could go on long patrols without its combat efficiency trailing off drastically over time.
Just give it internal facilities that build more ammunition allowing it to rearm on the go.
They should have made a subclass of the Victory 2 class that has some missile tubes. They can keep the main Victory 2 with no missiles, but they could make a subclass with them. Better to be safe than sorry.
Honestly all the Empire should've done is give the Victory-I the engines of the Victory-II.
There is something to that. the empire had to lean heavily on the isd 1 and 2 to take on the new republic after endor once they had built a real fleet and the empire had shattered. If they had a reserve of victory 1 firepower even fragmented they may well have endured because they would have more options then a full capital ship to respond with.
I agree, reduce it to 20 tubes and add 10 heavy ion canons.
Also, the original art for the VSD pretty much intended the side 'wedges' to be CLOSED and to be some sort of atmospheric ENGINES. They only seemed to become open in the old TIE Fighter and X-Wing vs Tie Fighter video games - apparently because they only had access to a side view of the ship...
This video also shows FractalSponge's reinterpreted CG artwork version as well (1:07)
They should have made their Victory iis more modular. Slide out the ion turret package and replace with heavy turbolasers for capital ship battles. Mission specific loadouts. Even with today's technology level our Navy ships are now built to have mission specific swappable packages. I should know... I watch my little brother do it all the time with his Star Wars ships made from Lego blocks :-)
Because it was too good, they needed to balance it for galactic warfare reasons
Apparently, they never heard of EMP or Ion missiles!
@Toby Twist Not that we really get to see them on screen.
Victory-1 OP, pls nerf
*creates Victory-2*
cool thanks bro
Imagine a "Victory-3" variant with improved systems, lower bridge profile, and both missiles and ion cannons...
MetaNerdz, you forgot to address the key advantage the Vic-II had over the Vic-1; Speed. The original Victory-1 had underpowered engines, which meant most ships could outrun it. All those missiles and guns were no good if the enemy could just open the range. Shedding the weight of all those munitions, launchers, excessive guns, and a bit of armor meant the Victory-II could actually keep up with targets that were trying to make a run for hyperspace.
I wish we could have more ship battles like if u agree
panda god 10101 play armada
@@The.Boyo. I think he means cinematic space battles, like in the movies or fanmade stuff like eckhartsladder did with McHenry
I want to see more jedi gambling in Cantinas using rock paper scissors and cheating by using the force to sense their opponent's moves / choice. Lightsaber beats paper....and scissors... and rock.
I like the victory 2 class do to fact that it's cheaper then the victory 1 to produce and can be used during times of peace but still being powerful enough to be used in all out war. Note the victory one is still my favorite of the two though.
You know what I would like to see? A Sector rapid response force consisting of Victors and Venators (with proper TIE fighters). The rebel hit and run tactics rely on imperial predictability and calculating their response times, which would be cut in half with these ships.
The V2 would be better against MonCal ships due to the heavier energy broadside, allowing faster depletion of their shields.
In the classic EU, the V1 was far slower due to older engines, if the V1 had an engine replacement refit allowing it to match speed it would have paired very nicely in ISD/VSD2 formations.
i guess the lack of feeling of satisfaction from spamming all those missiles.
Here is a thought could the reason behind loosing the missiles be because of reloads during prolonged engagements? Because those looked like some very big tubes they probably didn't have many reloads. And no matter how you look at it once a missiles launcher launches it's load it's got nothing to fall back on without a reload. Or you can say it this way you can shoot more targets if your gun doesn't need a reload
“Victory I”class in the clone wars, “we dont trusth you to give you a real ISD II” class after the clone wars
Unless you're Zinj, then you actually WANT your Victory 1 and captained it proudly for years
perreterecon
ISD II? No one wants a ship that has more than 170 000 design flaws
I’ll take an ISD I instead
@@weldonwin Yep. Victory stronk.
I agree that the Victory 2 was a formidable ship, but I think the main reason the New Republic used them was because they captured them from the Empire and had no desire to let them go to waste.
Absolutely, its jus a wasted resource otherwise
To be fair, they also could've taken them apart and built new ships with them. But I think it was easier and more cost-effective to simply use them as it.
Hey MetaMerdz. Now that you've covered both Victory classes, you should do a video on the Crimson Command!
A fleet of over 100 Victories painted with unique red hulls.
Havod alloy, yes.
Thanks for the in-depth vid. I had no idea those were concussion missile launchers. The Victory-1 is favorite class of Imperial Star destroyer and I wish it had more screen time.
I always considered the missiles on a Clone Wars era Victory to be tailored to counter the swarms of droid fighters that they regularly encountered. Those missile tubes could be loaded with different types of missiles, including multi-packed canisters for smaller anti-starfighter missiles, much like the VLS canisters on real life naval vessels.
ARHHH “gunners” always annoys me..... ever heard of central automated targeting and control systems we have that now!!!! On ships lol, even torpedos on subs are loaded automatically now why do you need gunners
I always assumed it's due to the large number of weapon emplacements, the electronic countermeasures, and the fact that the galaxy as a whole is distrustful of machines having not too long ago fought a galactic scale war against droids. Just my perspective.
Marcos Rios automated targeting and control systems are not droid brains
Considering All but the most advanced I.A plain can’t shoot as well as a living being it makes sense, why waste the money (or the possibility of the guns turning on you) when you can just give more people a jobs
Well if you take the movie intro serious, than it all happened a long time ago :D
it's because star wars is world war two in space, a stylistic choice made by GL in 1977.
Great video. Now I’m gonna checkout the Broadside-class cruiser.
Ah cool yeah I liked that vid a lot
The Empire would have benefited more from a Victory 3 instead of Imperial 1 or 2. You could build it for the same role, and in much greater numbers. Then the Imperial 1 or 2, could serve as a fleet, flotilla, or sector flag.
Honestly I would have changed the way the fleet worked all together. Venator would have been much better for system Control and occupation then either Victory or Imperial. Personally, I’d like to see all 3 of them used by the Empire rather than just the Imperial. The Vic should have been treated more like a pocket Star Destroyer smaller and cheaper but more than capable to take on ships it’s size.
The entire "Tarkin Doctrine" was utterly idiotic in both concept and execution IMO.
In terms of direct fire armament, I think the Victory-II probably had a more balanced armament for its purpose and was likely better arranged around the vessel to provide more overlapping fields of fire. While not mentioned, I would also expect that it had a much reinforce laser cannon armament for anti-starfighter duties, probably upwards of 50 quad laser cannons in keeping with the later Imperator-I (which also supposedly has a strong laser cannon armament, but no official sources give us a proper estimation... and no, heavy turbolasers don't count as decent anti-starfighter armament, so the Imperator-I is clearly relying on something else)
If I recall the VSD II was also faster in normal speed than the original VSD
That said, I still agree, missile barrage VSD superior... at the same time when playing Star Wars: Armada my current favored fleet relies on a VSD II to weaken enemies for my big mean ISD to come blast it.
I like the fact you over view the change and operation use of each class cuz of the situation
“Batteries online!”
I think the Victory 2 makes a lot of sense, if you also consider, that Palpatine wanted/needed more Stardestroyers out in the galaxy, to secure it.
Reducing the cost, would help there, also in consideration, that the superweapons of the empire needed a lot of funds.
Having just done my 100th mission in The Awakening of The Rebellion Mod for Empire at War, I really like The Corellian Battleship. It was tough and its compliment of missiles was/is always much more appreciated than almost anything ele.
there should be 2 victories 1's and 2's accompanying every 1 Venetor's in my fleet at all time's
As far as star destroyers go the Victory (or Victor as I prefer calling it) might be my favourite. It is far more practical than an ISD, it can even land directly on planetary surfaces and drop its forces direction. And it has a better hyperdrive as well. The other alternative would be the Tector, which is basically an ISD with extra armour and less hangar space.
Oh, and the Crimson Command is utterly terrifying.
Awsome! I love the Victory class and would personally stick to the Victory-I in my dream fleet. Its class 1 hyperdrive and destructive armament would make it a versitale, balanced capital on which you can always rely on
How about a video on the EU bomber known as the Skipray Blastboat.
Ooh, good pick.
And it's lesser known ancestor, the Turbostorm class?
@@chrissonofpear1384
When you break down what the Skipray Blastboat is as a bomber it is by far one of the best EU bombers in Star Wars something that can give the EU B-Wing bomber a run for its money. Three Ion Cannons, one concussion missile launcher, one duel laser turret and, one proton torpedo launcher. It is a three-seater with a pilot, gunner and, navigator the Skipray also has hyperdrive capabilities. As you can tell I am a bit of a nerd on this ship as it is a personal favorite I just would love to see some videos done on it so others can see this bomber.
I do rather like it. And we only rarely hear of dedicated Imperial squadrons for it, like the Fate's Judges in Legends...
@@chrissonofpear1384
I first learned of the ship in Timothy Zahn's book Heir To the Empire when Luke Skywalker stole one from Talon Karrde's base on Myrkr.
In truth the Victory class was going to be a prototype of the Star Destroyer, sadly the Empire went a bit too ham with the turbo lasers. In truth the Tarkin doctrine was flawed from the beginning relaying way to much force projections rather than practical means.
Yeah. It both look and sounds good to be able to blast a planet apart, till you realize they were largely your own citizens now with angry relatives and friends and that you dont have a smaller scale response. Old palps would have been better putting extra funding into the isb and cut out a few star destroyers and a smaller death star.
Definitely Tarkin made a fatal mistake. They should've modified the Clone Wars cruisers, starfighters, keep clone troopers or better train the imperials in everything, land vehicles, make escort ships and anti starfighter ships more often, even flexible ones like The Dreadnought class heavy cruiser, and everything else.
I'm not sure how I feel about the Tarkin Doctrine being made this sort of literal micromanaging of EVERYTHING.
Back in day, it just seemed to be about using intimidation in design and tactics...
@@chrissonofpear1384 it was. Dominate through fear.
Not to be confused with the Victory II class Frigate.
Or whatever we call it now.
A ship three times shorter anyway.
Great vid.
I love the gameplay footage you se, I see Empire at War and Sins of a Solar Empire. I love it
I was just playing empire at war. Its an oldie but classic.
I wonder how well they worked together in battle
Ironically the Victory 2 in Star Wars Rebellion(Supremacy) had 600 shields to the 1’s 200 but lost all troop carrying capacity. No concussion missiles in Rebellion though.
MetaNeadz "I highly recommend that you read these book's (so I can have a break from making videos).
By the way congratulations on the 200k
"Ah, victory..."
- Nute Gunray -
Metanerdz have you ever done the Victory 2 frigate from the Galactic Civil War space battles in Battlefront 2 (2005/OG)? Have they ever appeared anywhere else?
Seem to be roughly as big as the ISD command tower also, so up to 275 metres...?
Both the Victory 2 and Imperial 2 frigates appear as faction ships for the Eriadu Authority in the Thrawn's Revenge mod for Empire at War. You can capture the Imperial 2, but not the Victory 2, as it is too small. (There are both minimum and maximum size limits for ship capping in TR. Biggest thing you can cap is an Allegiance SD, or Secutor carrier. . . Or Home One type, or Chiss Pheonix Star Destroyer. Both the Home One type and Phoenix are absolutely gamechanging to capture. The Home One is just about the tankiest ship for its control cost, and the Phenix is probably the highest damage output per control cost.)
I don't like missile on ships since it has MUCH less ammo in total. One you run out of missiles then your just kinda boned.
The Yuuzhan Vong vs Vitiate's Sith Empire.
(Expanded Universe for the win)
Whoever wins, we lose.
Thing is to the empire its just another **rebellion** not another powerful faction that requires full attention so cheaper star destroyers to do the job would fit in more for the job to them
I LOOOOOVE this ship as I'm old school and it was an achievement they didn't get you a trophy to fly off off playing 90s dial up internet days loaded this of the save icon for about 5 hours TIE Fighter... but love your channel and yes I think nailed it... still love it though.
Have you done a video on the porax 38 Starfighter?
Ironically the Victory-1 would probably be able to fight a ISD-1on its own due to is missile compliment.
Are you going to cover the Crimson Command V2?
"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" - Probably the Victory 2
Showed up in Star Wars Rebellion/Supremacy (1999?). That game also has an extensive encyclopedia if you want some more lore resources.
Could someone please tell me the name of music in the background ?
You forgot about the gun next to the bridge
Do a vid on the t-6 or krennics shuttle please
I prefer the Victory II, rather have faster sublight speed and ion cannons over missiles.
Can someone please tell me what Empire at War mod the footage in this video is from?
EDIT: Specifically from 1:22-1:37
Can you do a video on the Box from the clone wars?
B-but...
MISSILE SPAM!!!?? WHERE'D YOU GO!!? QAQ
Are Victory's and Dreadnought Heavy cruisers even canon anymore?
Also, the Victory was first appeared in the novel, Han Solo's Revenge, released on 12 October, 1979.
The Victory class was mentioned in the canon novel Tarkin, in 2013.
it has also accidentally appeared, seen from behind, in some of the early Darth Vader comic book issues.
The Dreadnaught cruiser appeared in Rebels season 4 briefly, but is treated as more of a supply/support ship, there.
Id say the biggest issue is when you run 9ut of missiles theyre a waste of room. Having ion cannons is far better for fighting shielded ships. The victory 2 is simply better. Itz supposed to be fast and be able to chase down other ships. Missiles in general are just inferior to more reliable weaponry.
I enjoy both ships i wish we had seen them in star wars rebels.
That or the Victory 3 class Star Destroyer or ISD 3.
2:33 The Galatic Empire is Gonna Need an additional One Quadrillion Venator 2s, One Quadrillion Victory 2s and One Quadrillion Imperial 2s at 0bby
I like the V2 over the V1, only I would have like it to have a decent amount of Point Defence as well.
1:00 turn to max volume
I thought the Victory Class was used in remote areas where a full size ISD was considered unnecessary or wasteful.
The victory 2 was faster and had the ability to capture enemy ships but was defensively weaker and vulnerable to star fighters due to its lack of point defense lasers and 24 star fighters. Please do book reviews on Star Wars EU from Bane Trilogy to Crucible.
But what is the block on the front of the bridge and why is it there
Do the Neimoidians
This is why the empire was defeated
Im going to be playing a Age of Rebellion game soon, what Race should i chose? non-Human please, i caint decide..........
MetaNerdz just wanted Ion Missiles/Torpedoes in the Victory-2 Star Destroyer that he'd sell to the Empire for a hefty profit.
That is outrageous! You have no proof!
I will just take the better engines of the V-2 and install those on the V-1, that will make it a better ship overall to me, since I will preffer the destructive firepower that makes unique the Victory class (which according to Anaxes is in reality a heavy cruiser) over what is basically a discount ISD MK2
I woulda jsut loaded my V-1 with misisles with ion warheads. nothign says "disabled" like a barrage of ion warheads, disable everythiong in that general direction
Or if all the vehicle's the all removed they could be replaced with 100,000,000 nukes
Personally i like this better then the v1 and the isds as misskes are single use and require there own logistics this with this v2 u can capture wich is normal a secondary job well still able to hold its own in a fight and could be mass produced more then the isds
Broadside cruisers make me moister than oysters
Venators are a joke to me. Those hangers were never even remotely close to being full of fighters. At most I bet they had between 36-72 fighters and LAAT transports.
Side note. I am glad someone finally pointed out the FACT that those fins are NOT for atmospheric maneuvering as some people claim. They are where the concus missile launchers are located.
Transporting very much starfighters can be dangerous and tje starfighters have hyperdriveds
when do we get the amazing tyrant class missile cruiser???
Is there an ISD III class ship?
Unclear. Could well be a variant design that's pretty much that, in Legends. May have been in obscure sources like the Leviathan comic?
Was a Victory ever seen on screen in film?
No, but probably one of the best known/loved EU capital ship besides maybe the Eclipse
Oh is that what those things are?
Well, the original art for the VSD had those wedges as CLOSED, but the old Lucasarts video games in the 90s had them opened up, perhaps because they only ever saw a side view...
Rocket Launch in Space is to slow to hit moving enemy vessel, so they removed them die better ship to ship combat
EMPIRE AT WARRRRRRRR
its like taking a modern missile destroyer and adding more AA guns because missiles kill enemies instantly, we want them to know we did this to them
Anyone know the mod?
Yee
I'd like you to do a video on the Revenge Class Heavy Carrier.
Alright I'll look into it
@@MetaNerdzLore Good oh it's a fanship made for a fan movie series but its always good that someone goes and shows it off now and again.
@@StarBornMichael Also, the fan show was narrated by Peter Cullen, Optimus Mother-Fracking Prime
Is in I.M.P.S. Relentless...
@@weldonwin OH YEAH i thought he sound familiar.
missles use up space
I send in 4 Victory 2s first to bring down my enemy's shields and then have 4 Victory 1s destroy them with missiles.
I take one, and take the best aspects from both types of victory classes, and make a new one.
Gimme the missiles back, add ion cannons. Add PDS lasers. Max out shielding. Hell, the weapons load out would be the easy part. I want way better shielding.
"How is that Victory-class' shielding so strong!" would be the tag for this piece of junk. 👍
No wonder The Empire lost the war against Rebellion... Removing missiles and quad turbolasers one of the dumbest mistakes of the Empire.
I think u got ur information wrong. The v2 had better ship to ship capabilities as a transition from anti fighter because concussion missles where anti star fighters not anti capital. The shields and armor where increased not decreased. It was the transition from venitor to ISD or evolution of star destroyer design. The V1 had concussion missles to counter the cis droid fighter swarms. V2 was actually after clone wars during the rebellion. It was a retrofit by Thrawn not during clone wars, I think who ever updated wookiepidea was trying to retcon original canon with the cartoon canon. But the V1 was replaced by the ISD due to it's slow speed. The enemy could just run away
YEET
dr ball
I only like the bridge of the vivtory class
Good news, frankly. We don't want stronger ISDs