I will point out an Acclamator that somehow managed to survive the Imperial era well enough to be reactivated did make for a pretty good carrier under the command of one Hera Syndula
I also love the venator’s carriers based purpose, but one of my personal favorite Star Wars capital ships is the venator’s main rival, the providence class
But what if imperial navy actually used them as destroyers? I mean, torpedo boat destroyers grew to the point that nowadays they have eclipsed some light cruisers in size and most battleships in firepower. And in current fleets they make up the bulk of the combat capable vessels. What if, maybe, just maybe they're the ships that makes the most sense for Star Wars and it's the rest that is plain wrong?:D I mean, we've already discussed the small fighters making little sense and carriers making not much more sense in navy with FTL capable "fighters". Do what you did as a joke for "fixing star destroyer"(except mirror not the bottom side, but top side with extra sensor systems), throw out majority of drop troops and hangars outside of specialist models and build the rest of the navy around treating such ship as light cruiser/destroyer. As much as you complemented small ships, those were compliments to their design philosophy and/or doctrine, not their scale.
The Imperial Venator losing it's color is something I love, though not for appearence, but narrative. The empire takes something that is magnificent, and strips away it's beauty for the sake of uniformity and efficiency, almost robbing the ship, and the republic itself, of it's soul.
@@dadab22do you know why people call them Jedi cruisers? It has always baffled me that a ship manned for 99.99% by clones is called a Jedi cruiser, Jedi didn’t design them, (mostly) didn’t man them and didn’t build them, why do they get the honor?!
@@art-games6230 I can't say for 100% sure, but I think it's because Jedi were the Generals of the Grand Army of the Republic. So whenever someone saw a Republic military ship, they associated it with the Jedi
8:26 You just attracted the horde. Honestly. My biggest gripe with the design is less the design itself, and more how it is presented as another big-ass Star Destroyer instead of (as you said) what it is: the Mobile Capital of the First Order. If they explained that it was just one-of-a-kind and basically a space-city, I'm quite certain that it wouldn't be as hated as it is now.
Honestly a series that revolved around the New Republic sending out fleets to try and track down the First Order base but not knowing it was a mobile ship would be neat. Any fleet that actually found it would probably get annihilated and it would stay a mystery.
Your stats on the 'Mega' just killed me. Under utilities you have a hot tub and a bulkhead mounted microwave, but as embarked craft you have 30 Death Stars and 13 Death Star II's. Lol.
Hey those bulkhead mounted microwaves saves alot of needed countertop space in those cramped crew quarters (seriously they pack them in like sardines). You gotta make room for the hot tub some how.
"Some" crew is also a nice understatement. Even if you are generous with space and adjust to the fact that there is a whole industry in there (and hydroponics and whatnot), it must have millions of crew. Though most of them would be "civilians" since if they were all military crew and not doing the food growing and producing stuff, you would have to have a star destroyer sized supply ship every day just to feed them and bring in spare parts.
Before the dark times, what would come to be known as the “Imperial” class was originally named the Imperator class. But because it was meant to be the mainstay of the new Imperial navy, it’s name was changed to the Imperial class.
I think Imperial sounds better, but Imperator fits in with the Mandator, Venator, Executor, Interdictor, Secutor name scheme so while stylistically worse is technically superior.
The split bridge design of the Venator has made its way into real life. The Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers of the Royal Navy have a forward bridge for controlling the ship, and an aft bridge for managing aircraft.
Well, it is a logical design, so it is expected to appear more and more until it completely replaces the inferior single-bridge carrier design (although I would make them in-line instead of next to each other)
@@Casual2270 they arent really inferior or superior to one bridge design tbh The only reason Queen Elizabeth do that was because she have 2 engines, both of which need an exhaust vent (cant do a one exhaust for both as its too far apart) Edit: forgot to add this But based on environment alone we wouldnt want to seperate the aviator and ship command Because in Venator case the fighters just need to fly off but in modern carriers, the ship speed is needed for an aircraft to lift off and communicate this with your other command force on the ship on another tower isnt ideal
Erm as a brit I would like to say we have no intention of building thousands to take over the world, again, I know we said we wouldn't take over the world before but this time we really mean it, on a completely different note the qe class aircraft carrier can travel in space, has a hyper drive, and a decent armournent of heavy turbo lasers
I really wanna see Victory class on new shows or movies. I feel like they are underrated. They were vital for Early Empire years! Also the Resurgent class, I absolutely love those ships. For me they're the only good thing out of the entire sequel trilogy.
As Tarkin is an actor in the Bad Batch and Victory were present in his book there is a possibility that we will see one soon. Also it would really fit as a major threat in the Mandalorian and Ahsoka.
Victory I was an Old Republic design and used in the closing of the Clone War (per pre-prequel trilogy sources I saw) . In general, the II was a refit of weapons away from ordinance to energy. Most Imperial officers not having any heritage to the Republic preferred the Imperials.
the engine layout of the venator actually does line up decently well with the center of mass if you consider that the reactors are probably what make up half the mass of the ship.
There's also little sub-engines above the main engines that might be there specifically to compensate for the low placement of the main engines. Given that the main engines are behind most of the volume of the ship and star wars engines run on space dust anyway, it's not too farfetched that a little thrust just above the main thrust vector keeps the ship properly aligned.
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 irl reactors (even fusion reactors) are highly complex machines that weigh a lot. even if there is quite literally barely anything inside of them it's not like a reactor is simply a giant furnace it's more comparable to an engine on a car or a plane. Yes it has empty space but it also has a ton of very heavy systems in/around it that contribute to the mass. The reason why so many modern day ships have their powerplants at the bottom center of the ship is because the powerplant has the most mass out of all the ship components. if you move it rearward towards the screws you get the bow raising up, Move it up above the waterline and you risk capsizing. Cars also have their engine at the front (generally) to provide crash resistance. some sports cars have their engines in the middle to improve handling (center of mass is equidistant between wheel). Airplanes have their engines (generally) forward of the wing so that they are aerodynamically stable. the engines contributing the greatest mass to the airplane's structure. Even rockets don't always have their center of mass be in their center of volume. the Space Shuttle is a notable example.
I like that the Onager Class looks a bit like a crossbow, it perfectly conveys the idea of it being a ship specifically built around a giant cannon. However I do have to agree that the Venetor is the best Star Destroyer design. Especially when painted.
The Onager I think was a tribute to the TCS Midway of Wing Commander, as the shaping of the vessels is largely identical, even down to some details like the bridge design and placement of the main weapon. That said, the Onager isn't anywhere close to being 1:1 copy of the Midway as anything more than a cursory glance shows how different the two designs are.
I just can't support unjustifiable protrusions for no purpose, put weapons in them, sensors, a rubber band etc. When ship design just becomes sculture with no purpose they lose any credibility.
The interesting thing about the Acclamator is the gigantic hyperdrive. A class 0.6 hyperdrive in a military transport vessel makes this a rapid-response ship which is kinda unique.
The most tragic thing about the Disney sequels is we never got to see the Supremacy face off against the Eclipse like what we may have been able to had they kept the same directors for the three episodes.
The Eclipse is in First Order possession tho so that wouldn't work, it was the base from which Sloane built the First Order. In canon granted though, its just a standard Executor Class.
My favorite Star Destroyer-Type is the Harrower-Class Star Destroyer from SWTOR's Sith Empire. In short, it was a better Venator with a cooler Gladiator-esque silhouette.
My ideal fleet would use Victory's, Venator's, and Harrowers. I Think you could set them up to use a lot of the same production frames with some minor alterations, and get them equipped to support each other in a battle group.
I have been itching for a new Empire at War game for the longest time- especially if it included the Clone Wars era. I wouldn't even mind the Sequel era simply because the Resurgence-Class Star Destroyer was one of the few new designs I liked and I love the idea of taking command of one.
I like the Resurgent class but man does it just not 'exist' outside of the movies right now. I want a FO era strategy game, I want to know what happened in the actual wars of that period as there is basically a galaxies worth of room to write in seeing as the movies didn't.
The Sequel merchandise did not so well and the receptions were not so positiv. Disney will avoid the Sequel era for a time and let Feloni and Favreau build the connections between Original and Sequel. Another problem is that you can do very little with the First Order Conflict, the entire conflict did not last a year and in that year the Resistance was running all the time. I would like to see at least a bit more involvement of the Resurgent.
@@18Krieger I feel like you could fudge the numbers and no one would notice really. A year across a galaxy could still have some decent 'width' to it if each battle or story is set over a week for around 52 battles or weeks worth of conflict if they are all back to back.
The Empire at War Forces of Corruption has mods, some of them set in the time of the Sequel Trilogy where the Resurgent-class is featured along with First Order units and other stuff.
@@igncom1 Yeah you are right, people are complaining anyway so you could retcon it. They would have to come up with something regarding the power of the First Order and Resistance. For the First Order you could use the Imperial Warlords that still existed and let them join the First Order boostering their ranks. Gives a chance for internal strive and imperial on First Order conflicts. Well and for the Resistance you could finally introduce the New Republic Military proper.
It was utterly stupid how the movies portrayed the conflict. They wanted the same "rebels vs empire" scenario but with a faction a tenth the size of the original empire. And for some dumb reason, a republic that doesn't protect its interests in the outer rim and actively dismantled most of its navies just to have the setting forced into the same situation as the original trilogy. That's why legends is still superior. The Empire still exists, but the New Republic has them matched in firepower and armament. The Republic have the Viscount, which is a gargantuan Mon Cala ship the size of a super star destroyer. They have two actual super star destroyers that they captured. And they have a new line of ships that can match the imperial star destroyers 1 to 1.
Honestly, the Resurgent Class is the best ship to come out of the Sequels, imo. Even if I have a soft spot for the Silencer. Also, the Raider is probably my favourite ship in star wars, period. The fact it can also carry a hero's squadrons worth of my favourite start fighter ever, may help.
What I like about the Venators was that it was PRACTICAL ! Like seriously most of the Star Destroyers popped out by the Empire are so wasteful in resources and manpower that I just facepalm every time I see em. The Venators though may have been smaller and less armed but they can get the job done with less materials and personnel. Pretty sure if Tarkin stuck to using Venators he'd have enough ships and personnel to cover every star system in the Empire.
The Empire suffers greatly from the "fight the last war" mentality. The Venator, being a hastily designed capital ship for the Republic, was likely the latest patrol cruiser scaled up and with more guns bolted on. So, it sucked in the pitched battles of the Clone Wars, as it was instead meant to project power over multiple star systems with FTL capable strike craft. This in turn, led to the Victory and Imperial Star Destroyers, which would have massacred Separatist fleets. Except, the war was over, and now they were stuck doing the same patrols the Venator had been designed for.
The Empire was never going to keep the Venators. They went on a massive campaign to get rid of all the symbols of the old republic, and considering the Venators were basically the poster boy of the GAR they were among the first to go. Add in that Palpatine was a massive supporter of the Tarkin Doctrine (it's basically Sith 101), and it was inevitable the Imperial was going to replace it.
@@pyronuke4768The venitor repair cost is higher it's very easy to destroy it's hangar doors were very costly and they were extremely underpowered an assault carrier as a main line warship ridiculous
Love these kind of personal take videos. I disagree on some order but only cause my armada collection of models had endeared me to stuff like the gladiator
I loved the Victory-I/Venator pairing from Legends. They complemented each other's roles perfectly and I think it's brilliant that shape-wise one has cut-outs while the other has bulky side additions. Seeing both in imperial grey during that transitional phase before everything was Imperials really sold the idea of Imperial military supremacy both in equipment and tactics.
My problem with the Venator is that they use it as a warship when it's filled with fighters and troop transports, the things a support ship with Carrier and planetary assault in mind and it they want to throw it away in slugging matches with other ships when it doesn't have the armor or guns for it because of it's hanger facilities.
You have to wonder how Venators could actually function there's so much space used for the hangars how did they have power for shields,engines and guns. The Imperial had more guns,armour and shields but they had so much more volume. LAAT's are an even worse example of this in the prequels how did they even fly with all those guns and clones aboard
@@TheBenji800 compact power generation. But really the main reason the republic leaned on the venator so hard is cause they were caught with their pants down - they had to rely on acclamators for abit before they even got the Venator, and the starfighter heavy, point defense riddled nature of the CIS fleet meant it couldn’t rely on only its fighters to ensure a kill. So they were making the most of what they had
The Venator makes sense, if you see it as a peace time patrol cruiser with more guns bolted and rushed into service. It's basically the Republic equivalent of a converted carrier, except it is a carrier converted into a battleship carrier hybrid. The Clone Wars lasted only 3 years, and the Venator showed up in the first weeks. That's definitely not enough time to design and test a proper new warship. It's not even enough time to mass produce a warship.
I like the Venator a lot, It's my second favorite Star Destroyer behind the Resurgent; but the one thing that brings it down for me is I've met so many fans who love it so much that they're borderline brown nosing them. There's been times where I'm like "ok, I get it, you love the Venator, can you just please stop sucking its deck for two seconds?"
We need more gigantic ships used as mobile bases or as headquarters, heck maybe even as a faction's homeworld, and for them to stay far far out of enemy lines supplying the war effort instead of jumping right into combat with their tiny counterparts
I've always wished that we'd get to see a venator in rebel use in the main canon, seeing as they're basically the perfect ship for them. Fast sublight speed, enormous hangar capacity, excellent hyperdrive, well armed and armed enough to at least survive against an isd, and with a much smaller crew compliment, they're basically the perfect rebel flagship! Not to mention the galaxy is littered with abandoned ones ever since the empire decided to replace the entire fleet, so sourcing one shouldn't be too difficult
Empire scrapped, not left abandoned Plus the venator takes way too many people for the Rebels to properly manage, especially in the early years where the Venator is more likely to be nabbed
Thanks for including the stats on the "Super Duper-class" star destroyer. Without it, I wouldn't have known it was a vehicle for that deadly substance, Dihydrogen Monoxide. 😛
I agree with you, the Venator has always been my favorite ship of the franchise, ever since I first saw it on screen. It's just a unique and classy design and I don't think there will ever be a Star Wars ship I like more
I know I’ve probably said this before but god damn I love how you take so much energy out into your speeches and thought pieces. The maniacal laugh in particular at the start. We’re lucky to have you.
The First Order Dreadnought was named the Mandator IV because it was an indirect reference to the Mandator I and II class, which were Republic-era dreadnoughts. The most well known was the "Pride of the Core" I believe they were built by Kuat Drive Yards, and the FO Dreadnought was built by the secret branch of KDY that was quietly building ships for the FO before the films
In the defense of the Secutor, despite it's not so pleasant look, I feel that these bigger star destroyers (assuming that they were used in the Clone Wars) were the only true counter for the Lucrehulks that CIS used. The Venators were fantastic, but the CIS Lucrehulks were absolute beasts that it took several Venators to even challenge one of them. It can be assumed that the Allegiance class would eventually replace the Secutor. I can also defend the Mandator IV. Yes, it's a hideous design, but it oddly reminds me of the monitor warships that were used in WW2 and they weren't exactly that pretty either. Their goal was to simply serve as a mobile battleship gun turret and nothing more. Did Monitor vessels make good warships? Far from it, but if you were at Hoth and you had a shield generator in place then grab a Mandator IV and blast that Rebel base away. I doubt even the Ion cannon could only do so much to stop it. And yes, I agree, they should have just done a copy pasta of the Mandator instead of a bunch of ISD Xystons. Planet destroying weapons make way more sense on large platforms that can at least power the weapons to begin with.
I absolutely hate the Secutor just based on aesthetics. Like they said in the video, it's too wide. The Venator bridge looks out of place. It's just a giant triangular brick. Its role is fine, but the design itself? Yuck.
Some good points, and I don't particularly dislike the siege weapon idea in general, just the way the Mandator did it was a bit bleh. - hoojiwana from Spacedock
I just now realized that Lucrehulk means something akin to "Decommissioned Pile of Money." It's probably not the worst Star Wars ship name, but still....
Hey hooj, heard about Dan leaving and while that’s sad I’m happy for him and especially happy and excited to see the continued output of content from this channel under your wonderful eye.
I agree with your #1 The Venator is jus aweome, I always viewed it as a sort of "assault carrier", a ship that can deploy massive amounts of fighters and a shit-ton of ground forces, while just barely having enough firepower to destroy another ship should it get too close. Also, I like the different doctrine it emphasizes between the two factions in the clone wars. CIS tends to favor larger ships with a lot of lighter turrents on them while the Venator has heavier guns but not very many of them. It's a very appropriate wartime design and really raised my expectations of a Star Destroyer's capabilities.
The venitor is cool but don't forget why the empire replaced it the ship was costly to maintain the big hanger was a huge Target wasn't hard to destroy them there firepower wasn't efficient to many fighters in one ship and the war showed the inefficiencies of an assault Carrier as a Main line warship which is why it's replacement the secutor only ran 700 at most and wasn't a main line wardhip
Finally someone who has some love for the FO ships, since they ARE cool AF. And yeah, would be cool if Snoke's throneroom was actually part of a Resurgent class Star Destroyer
Tbh i would have swapped the resurgent and imperial. Idk the resurgent is a very busy design with lots of layers and is too compact vertically to my liking. When you stop at 7:07 you can count probably 7 or 8 different steps which i find too complicated, the imperial has 3 or 4 and a lot of space that is left empty so that you can take a good look at its overall shape. Plus this means the control tower is just yet another step, there is very little that allows you to destinguish it from the other steps because there are so many of them and the bridge is so close to the rest of the structure. Also can we talk about how in the clip at 7:12 one of the step seems... Hollow? Like the starfighter flies inside the ship and out... I never managed to wrap my head around the resurgent's design. I can more or less understand at a glance how every star wars ship looks like a a whole but not the resurgence. To me the imperial is just perfectly balanced between complicacy and simplicity. The triangle shape is one of the most boring shape ever yet its use is so amazing. The fact the resurgence is so ridiculously oversized and overgunned in lore really doesn't help either.
For the Imperial class, during the Clone Wars this ship line was to be called the Imperator before the Jedi Purge. Just read up on the Star Wars Cross section books, it in there.
That's the in-universe explanation right? I'm more curious about the real life version, was wondering if someone at some point took things from the first film very literally. - hoojiwana from Spacedock
@@hoojiwana EC Henry knows a lot about behind the scenes work. Like how the original idea for the Star Destroyer were triangle shaped fighters launched from a space carrier, the model of which showed up in Solo. Just get in touch of EC Henry to find your answers.
@@hoojiwana if I remember correctly the in universe explanation sort of mirrors the real life reason in that some early sources did refer to it as the Imperator class but the fact that it was just so ubiquitously known as the imperial star destroyer the name Imperial class just sort of stuck
@@hoojiwana They probably did just take it very literally since the source(I'm pretty sure that the full name first appeared in the Star Wars Sourcebook for the West End Games tabletop rpg) which first gave it the name Imperial-class Star Destroyer also called the Executor a Super-class Star Destroyer(this name was given in the lightly latter Imperial Sourcebook).
I’m actually on the same boat for the Supremacy. IMO its the best use of a super sized warship/dreadnought/space station. Makes more practical sense than the Executor (which still wins look wise though) and the Death Star (without the superweapon too!)
My friend I have not laughed this hard in a long time. Anytime you do these ship breakdowns and you post the stats such as the length the type of engine the crew all of that stuff I always pause it to make sure I read everything. Well needless to say I stopped it on the super duper class "Star Dreadstroyernaut" and I have not laughed this hard in a long long time. Thank you so much for making my day better lol. Keep up the Great work. ❤️
The Venator is no mere carrier, calling it such is a disservice to the vessel. What it really is, is a planetary siege capable of deploying entire armies in minutes after blasting through an enemy blocade. It has more in common with an Imperium of Man Space Marine Battlebarge than the gladiator or quazar.
Wouldn't that be the Acclamator? The Acclamator has the job of deploying big armies and bases onto planets, having a huge hangar bay to carry a prefab base, shitton of soldiers and a shitton of LAAT Gunships and walkers, all while being well armored and armed enough to protect its content while it enters the planet. The Venator is more or less a jack of all trades, fulfilling the role of starfighter carrier for space battles, main stay capital ship in said battles, and mobile command base. Something they did out of necessity to be as versatile as they can and ease mass production capabilities
@@granmastersword The aclimator is an assault ship not a Siege Vessel it can't really fight in an engagement it can only gunit to the landing zone. I defiantly want one or two to comeinto the beach head my Venators just punched in for them but in order to be a Siege Vessel you need to do multiple tasks. See the Andromeda from Gene Rodenbersy's Andromeda, or a Battle Fleet Gothic Space Marine Battle Barge.
I tend to view it as more of a mobile military logistics hub. Park in orbit, open the hangar doors, and have troops and supplies constantly being ferried in and out under the direct protection of the guns and squadrons. It makes sense to have that sort of role in your fleet during the Clone Wars, which often called for force projection beyond existing infrastructure.
@@paulshealy1863 The Acclimator can absolutely function as a siege vessel, its armament of turbolasers and torpedoes was primarily meant for orbital bombardment of enemy defenses and its variant the Acclimator-II was specifically designed to capitalize on that as well as becoming a capable combat vessel. The venator can deploy forces but cannot carry as many and puts most of its focus into fighter carriage and ship to ship combat
He made a video about his favorite sci fi capital ships of all time about 5-6 years ago and the Harrower class Dreadnought was his second favorite capital ships, don't know if he still feel the same about it now
@@nmdvalkyrie2862 I'm pretty sure the one from years ago was Daniel, the original Spacedock guy. He's gone off to focus on The Sojourn. Hoojiwana is the guy running Spacedock now (and doing a fine job imo), so they're bound to have different opinions on some things
I have to really disagree with the resurgent's ranking. star destroyers seem to be designed for broadside-style gun combat, so the Resurgent and Gladiator are both designed to have a straight line into their soft insides in-line with their enemy's guns when oriented as intended, and while the Gladiator has a bit of a pass as it seems designed to be a carrier and support ship before anything else, the Resurgent is a primary combat ship so it really doesn't have that excuse. definitely agree with the Venator, though
Uh, what? All Star Destroyers are designed for forward-quarter engagements, not exchanging broadsides. That's the whole point of the shape: to allow as many guns as possible to fire forwards.
@@GintaPPE1000 nah man, the gun layout is paralell to the keel rather than offset for forward clearance, in a frontal attack only two of the main gun turrets can actually engage (one each side). Also, the bays open forward as well, so that would be even worse design-wise. I mean, they should be set up for a frontal attack with all guns, what with the shape, but they aren't.
@@evanhenderson1760 and I agree that they really should be, but if you look at the actual design of the ships, they aren't actually designed that way, the primary armament is both level with itself and parallel with the keel so the front guns block the rest from firing forward.
@@Serbobiv123 I think the intention is that the Star destroyer stays below the plane of its target so it can fire all of its main cannons forward and upwards. Realistically the Star destroyer’s armament is divided between hundreds of weapons emplacements that cannot be seen that are able to be focused forwards
Hilarious and amazingly abitrary video in the best way possible! I love these b/c their fun and I can just relax watching them. Can't wait for more. To that end, I too love the Victory, especially FractalSponge's interpretation. The Victory, Raider, Resurgence, and EC Henry's Imperial Nebulon-B are my favorite "Imperial" ships in no particular order.
But what if imperial navy actually used them as destroyers? I mean, torpedo boat destroyers grew to the point that nowadays they have eclipsed some light cruisers in size and most battleships in firepower. And in current fleets they make up the bulk of the combat capable vessels. What if, maybe, just maybe they're the ships that makes the most sense for Star Wars and it's the rest that is plain wrong?:D I mean, we've already discussed the small fighters making little sense and carriers making not much more sense in navy with FTL capable "fighters". Do what you did as a joke for "fixing star destroyer"(except mirror not the bottom side, but top side with extra sensor systems), throw out majority of drop troops and hangars outside of specialist models and build the rest of the navy around treating such ship as light cruiser/destroyer. As much as you complemented small ships, those were compliments to their design philosophy and/or doctrine, not their scale.
9:08 my favorite parts of this data card: “propulsion: 2-stroke lawnmower engine” “Crew: probably has some yeah.” “Utilities: 4x American Cheese Measurement Devices” [is that a thing? I could see using Kraft Singles as your unit of measure…] “Role: For initiative”
0:30 we have ventured into the twilight zone. He cannot be stopped. The doors are locked, the home button is disabled, pause is unavailable, and the volume controls are locked at maximum. He cannot be stopped.
So, one thing to note, the "newer" version of the "Interdictor-class Star Destroyer" is actually the Immobilizer-418 Interdictor Cruiser. It's not a star destroyer but rather a modified Vindicator-class Heavy Cruiser, which is one of those ships in the "not a star destroyer but utilizes similar design concepts" category like the Acclimator.
I would say that ships having different weapons on different parts of the hull would make sense if they're expecting to frequently take a specific position. IE: if the Venator is expected to act as a carrier/assault ship, giving it weapons that are better at attacking planets on the belly with anti ship weapons on top. Not that there's much in the way of difference unless the plot calls for it, but you know, if there was. About the only thing I would change about the general design would be to center line the big guns to give them better firing arcs, as they're way way too restricted by that central column. Rigging them up so that you could get six to eight of them on full 270° overlap would be incredibly dangerous.
I think there's storyline logic to the ridiculousness of the Xyston class. When the Emperor went into the unknown region, he took a bunch of imperial class destroyers with him. By avoiding contact with the rest of the galaxy, they never felt the need to upgrade their designs. While the First Order upgraded and came up with their own designs, the Emperor thought he had the most badass ships by sticking these huge canons on the bottom of the old imperial class destroyers, while in reality his navy was 30 years behind the times.
Fun fact: during the end of the Clone Wars, the Imperial-class was originally called the "Imperator-class". And, along side the Victory-class, this SD was the sign of the Republic's inevitable transition to the Empire.
9:14 has the most hilarious schematic display stats I've ever seen on this channel. "EMBARKED CRAFT: 30x Death Stars, 13x Death Star IIs, 1s Suspicious Ford Transit van."
I do quite like the idea of the Supremacy being the mobile homeworld of the First Order, it also makes way more sense for them to build it than Starkiller Base, since it makes it somewhat plausible that the First Order was able to hide in the Outer Rim and build up a massive military force without permanently occupying planets. They could have even explained it's massive cost and size by saying it was an unfinished Imperial project that was revived and finished.
The last decades previous obsession with what were gargantuan sized flying wings really did something for me. While I really like the flying Doritos we've come to know and love, the Supremacy with its wide wingspan is just so menacing and if you can tell from my name the style of the ship being included in Stellaris: Overlord has been very well received by me. Shoutout to the Supremacys little sibblings, Sactuary II the Command Ship of Thanos and the U.S.S. Argo from the Monster Verse.
I love the Executor-class mainly because of the little bit of blue lighting against black then gray. That has been my favorite color scheme ever since I first saw the movie as a kid. 😁
I agree with most of this list, the only ones I'd change are the top 3. The Resurgent is my personal favorite for many of the reasons you listed. The Supremacy I'd put more towards the middle as I feel, like the Death Stars, it's too many eggs in one basket. I put the Venator in second place because, while it is a very solid design, the amount of fans I've met who basically worship it almost to the point of brown nosing has slightly soured it in my tastes.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the Arquitens class! In my humble opinion, smaller ships are more difficult to design because of the size limitations. Unless the bigness has a crucial necessity, just making things bigger with more of everything is lazy and lacks the reality of compromise in engineering design. Bravo for a wonderfully made and expressed list!
And The Emperor raised the Star Destroyer up on high, saying, 'The Dark Side, bless this thy Star Destroyer, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Sith Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the nerfs, and blergs, and bantha, and kowakians, and eopies, and breakfast cereals, and mynocks, and large Tauntauns. And the Sith Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou build the ship. Then shalt it's sides be three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt build, and the number of the sides shall be three. Four shalt thou not build, neither build thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then launchest thou thy Holy Star Destroyer of Sith towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
4:19 according to official merchandising for the orignal star wars movies the ISD was supposed to be called the "Imperator - class", at somepoint name "imperial-class" become more common (for a reason i do not know). so when ROTS was released this contradiction and renaming was brought into universe canon.
The detachable escape structure idea from the section about the Supremacy sounds almost like Anubis’s escape structure off of his flagship in Stargate SG-1
The Victory is so similar to the Imperial because it was its direct predecessor. Victorys were designed to make up for the Venator's shortcomings as a mainline battleship (since the two were supposed to operate together), meaning it had a large amount of firepower, but little carrier capabilites.
Would love to see an actual breakdown of the Supremacy after that. I genuinely didn't know it was literally just a mobile base, like a much smaller version of the Starkiller base.
I can respect your list, and for the most part, agree with it. minor lore tidbits as well as my own personal opinion. The Victory Class and Gladiator Class: The Victory Class was one of the first, purpose-built ASSAULT Star Destroyers of the Clone Wars. As you've said, the Venator is an All-Rounder. The Victory was built to be a more attack with its own guns ship over a Carrier. The Gladiator was designed as a counterpart to the Victory-Class, intended to be a dedicated Carrier. It was a step away from the Venator, separating the ship's two roles into more dedicated platforms. The Imperial Class: several have already mentioned it, but the Imperial-Class Star Destroyers, during the design phase, was the Imperator-Class. It was renamed "Imperial", I feel because it was the first new design, built after the founding the of the Empire. The Interdictors: The Empire had two Interdiction Ships, and you covered both. you have the Interdictor Star Destroyer, built off an ISD-1 Frame, and then you have the Immobilizer 418 Cruiser, built off of a Vindicator Cruiser's Frame. There is a third ship of the Vindicator line, that uses the Immobilizer's Frame, called the Enforcer. Doesn't have the Gravity Well Generators, but keeps the bubbles for stronger reactors, adding more guns. The Venator: Yes, the Venator is an excellent ship. However, there is one massive, glaring flaw with it, and honestly almost every single Imperial-Use Warship that takes on the Dagger/Spearhead shape. And that's the god-awful Goose-neck Bridge Towers. Why in (Insert Deity of Choice)'s creation, did ANYONE think that at least 200m of vertical lifts and decks, between your Command Section, AND THE REST OF THE SHIP, was a good idea? The Bridge Towers on a Venator just scream as loud as possible with as many megaphones as possible, SHOOT ME! I'M IMPORTANT! The bridge tower of the Venator is literally the only thing keeping me from liking this ship. If it were even half the height it is, or.... even better, if it were at the top of the superstructure mound that serves as the bridge's base, it would be perfect. (minus ventral main batteries, but every imperial design suffers from that)
Glad someone agrees with me on how good the Resurgent class and The Supremacy looks. No horde large enough to make me step down from the hill I'm standing on.
The Acclamator is the perfect spec-ops shop. Small enough that no one pays attention to it (there's that handful of Imp2's over there! AHHH), and being primarily a transport ship with a fist and thick skin, you still have enough room to do about anything
I actually really like that the empire doesn't paint its ships. Its thematically on point about how the individual is irrelevant. Similar to the uniformity of the stormtroopers.
The Resurgent class is an Imperial class that got thunked on the head real hard and came out with a massive underbite, and is probably one of the least attractive ships in this list.
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I will point out an Acclamator that somehow managed to survive the Imperial era well enough to be reactivated did make for a pretty good carrier under the command of one Hera Syndula
Imperial Star Destroyers are painted it's called military grey or maybe it was ocean grey I forget.
I also love the venator’s carriers based purpose, but one of my personal favorite Star Wars capital ships is the venator’s main rival, the providence class
But what if imperial navy actually used them as destroyers?
I mean, torpedo boat destroyers grew to the point that nowadays they have eclipsed some light cruisers in size and most battleships in firepower. And in current fleets they make up the bulk of the combat capable vessels.
What if, maybe, just maybe they're the ships that makes the most sense for Star Wars and it's the rest that is plain wrong?:D I mean, we've already discussed the small fighters making little sense and carriers making not much more sense in navy with FTL capable "fighters". Do what you did as a joke for "fixing star destroyer"(except mirror not the bottom side, but top side with extra sensor systems), throw out majority of drop troops and hangars outside of specialist models and build the rest of the navy around treating such ship as light cruiser/destroyer. As much as you complemented small ships, those were compliments to their design philosophy and/or doctrine, not their scale.
hahaha the spec sheet for the supremacy has some cheeky details XD
The Imperial Venator losing it's color is something I love, though not for appearence, but narrative. The empire takes something that is magnificent, and strips away it's beauty for the sake of uniformity and efficiency, almost robbing the ship, and the republic itself, of it's soul.
how did you encapsulate this so well?
Didn’t they do it because some people called them “Jedi cruisers” and they wanted to remove any memory of the Jedi?
@@art-games6230 Exaclty. Which is why the Emperor ordered it.
@@dadab22do you know why people call them Jedi cruisers? It has always baffled me that a ship manned for 99.99% by clones is called a Jedi cruiser, Jedi didn’t design them, (mostly) didn’t man them and didn’t build them, why do they get the honor?!
@@art-games6230 I can't say for 100% sure, but I think it's because Jedi were the Generals of the Grand Army of the Republic. So whenever someone saw a Republic military ship, they associated it with the Jedi
I'm a huge fan of the one that looks like a triangle.
Ikr!
It's just so ...pointy!
Me too thanks.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
Correction: A literal dorito
Personally I'm partial to the wedge looking one.
8:26 You just attracted the horde.
Honestly. My biggest gripe with the design is less the design itself, and more how it is presented as another big-ass Star Destroyer instead of (as you said) what it is: the Mobile Capital of the First Order.
If they explained that it was just one-of-a-kind and basically a space-city, I'm quite certain that it wouldn't be as hated as it is now.
Yeah, one could say that opinions of this ship are split right down the middle.
@@DrakeAurum Nice
Honestly a series that revolved around the New Republic sending out fleets to try and track down the First Order base but not knowing it was a mobile ship would be neat. Any fleet that actually found it would probably get annihilated and it would stay a mystery.
So we're not going to mention how it's basically just a rip off of Pride of Hiigara?
@@TheArklyte I'd compare it to the Taiidan Mothership more, TBH.
Your stats on the 'Mega' just killed me. Under utilities you have a hot tub and a bulkhead mounted microwave, but as embarked craft you have 30 Death Stars and 13 Death Star II's. Lol.
Gotta have somewhere for the crew of all those Death Stars to relax.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
Hey those bulkhead mounted microwaves saves alot of needed countertop space in those cramped crew quarters (seriously they pack them in like sardines). You gotta make room for the hot tub some how.
What do you expect for something made by IKEA? Flat-pack Star Destroyers is were the money is.
Don't forget the 404 water pistols!
"Some" crew is also a nice understatement. Even if you are generous with space and adjust to the fact that there is a whole industry in there (and hydroponics and whatnot), it must have millions of crew. Though most of them would be "civilians" since if they were all military crew and not doing the food growing and producing stuff, you would have to have a star destroyer sized supply ship every day just to feed them and bring in spare parts.
Before the dark times, what would come to be known as the “Imperial” class was originally named the Imperator class. But because it was meant to be the mainstay of the new Imperial navy, it’s name was changed to the Imperial class.
I think Imperial sounds better, but Imperator fits in with the Mandator, Venator, Executor, Interdictor, Secutor name scheme so while stylistically worse is technically superior.
@@3Rayfire It’s also the root for most versions of the word Emperor.
@@jedijam91 Of course. The original. The other being Caesar, which has no relevance in the Star Wars universe.
@@3Rayfire Hail Caesar!
Imperator sounds better
The split bridge design of the Venator has made its way into real life. The Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers of the Royal Navy have a forward bridge for controlling the ship, and an aft bridge for managing aircraft.
Well, it is a logical design, so it is expected to appear more and more until it completely replaces the inferior single-bridge carrier design (although I would make them in-line instead of next to each other)
@@Casual2270 they arent really inferior or superior to one bridge design tbh
The only reason Queen Elizabeth do that was because she have 2 engines, both of which need an exhaust vent (cant do a one exhaust for both as its too far apart)
Edit: forgot to add this
But based on environment alone we wouldnt want to seperate the aviator and ship command
Because in Venator case the fighters just need to fly off but in modern carriers, the ship speed is needed for an aircraft to lift off and communicate this with your other command force on the ship on another tower isnt ideal
Erm as a brit I would like to say we have no intention of building thousands to take over the world, again, I know we said we wouldn't take over the world before but this time we really mean it, on a completely different note the qe class aircraft carrier can travel in space, has a hyper drive, and a decent armournent of heavy turbo lasers
Every carrier ever has the bridge separate from the ATC.
No it is not life imitating art, duel bridges existed on real carriers in WW2, and the Royal Navy is copying from thouse past carriers, not StarWars.
I really wanna see Victory class on new shows or movies. I feel like they are underrated. They were vital for Early Empire years! Also the Resurgent class, I absolutely love those ships. For me they're the only good thing out of the entire sequel trilogy.
Disney are expanding the "in-between" era, hopefully the Victory will show up at some point!
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
@@hoojiwana Yeah I'd say it's entirely possible they show up in the Bad Batch or Andor.
As Tarkin is an actor in the Bad Batch and Victory were present in his book there is a possibility that we will see one soon. Also it would really fit as a major threat in the Mandalorian and Ahsoka.
Victory I was an Old Republic design and used in the closing of the Clone War (per pre-prequel trilogy sources I saw) . In general, the II was a refit of weapons away from ordinance to energy. Most Imperial officers not having any heritage to the Republic preferred the Imperials.
well, Kylo's lightsaber looked quite cool.
I was taken aback by the
"Because this is my list, and you can't stop me!!! Muahahaha!!!"
Seriously, the ship stats for the Supremacy were brilliant xD
I hope you giggled as much as I did thinking that one up lol
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
@@hoojiwana I just love the water pistols, I'm still chuckling as I re-read the list.
I would have been obsessed with the Supremacy as a kid, and I mean that in the best way.
the engine layout of the venator actually does line up decently well with the center of mass if you consider that the reactors are probably what make up half the mass of the ship.
Indeed. Centre of volume is not necessarily centre of mass.
That's a good point, and the central hangars are basically empty space.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
You mean the reactors that might have dense shells, but are still actually basically big, empty metal balloons?
There's also little sub-engines above the main engines that might be there specifically to compensate for the low placement of the main engines. Given that the main engines are behind most of the volume of the ship and star wars engines run on space dust anyway, it's not too farfetched that a little thrust just above the main thrust vector keeps the ship properly aligned.
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 irl reactors (even fusion reactors) are highly complex machines that weigh a lot. even if there is quite literally barely anything inside of them it's not like a reactor is simply a giant furnace it's more comparable to an engine on a car or a plane. Yes it has empty space but it also has a ton of very heavy systems in/around it that contribute to the mass.
The reason why so many modern day ships have their powerplants at the bottom center of the ship is because the powerplant has the most mass out of all the ship components. if you move it rearward towards the screws you get the bow raising up, Move it up above the waterline and you risk capsizing.
Cars also have their engine at the front (generally) to provide crash resistance. some sports cars have their engines in the middle to improve handling (center of mass is equidistant between wheel).
Airplanes have their engines (generally) forward of the wing so that they are aerodynamically stable. the engines contributing the greatest mass to the airplane's structure.
Even rockets don't always have their center of mass be in their center of volume. the Space Shuttle is a notable example.
The Super Duper-class stat sheet is a true masterpiece
I like that the Onager Class looks a bit like a crossbow, it perfectly conveys the idea of it being a ship specifically built around a giant cannon.
However I do have to agree that the Venetor is the best Star Destroyer design. Especially when painted.
Donnager? :)
The Xyston should have been an upscale Onager
The Onager I think was a tribute to the TCS Midway of Wing Commander, as the shaping of the vessels is largely identical, even down to some details like the bridge design and placement of the main weapon. That said, the Onager isn't anywhere close to being 1:1 copy of the Midway as anything more than a cursory glance shows how different the two designs are.
I just can't support unjustifiable protrusions for no purpose, put weapons in them, sensors, a rubber band etc. When ship design just becomes sculture with no purpose they lose any credibility.
@@kennethferland5579 I suspect the bow protrusions on the Onager serve a function related to the prime weapon on the ship.
The interesting thing about the Acclamator is the gigantic hyperdrive. A class 0.6 hyperdrive in a military transport vessel makes this a rapid-response ship which is kinda unique.
Damn that is fast
That's probably the reason why the GAR was able to defend all major Republic planets in the first week of the clone wars.
The most tragic thing about the Disney sequels is we never got to see the Supremacy face off against the Eclipse like what we may have been able to had they kept the same directors for the three episodes.
If the eclipse had its super laser it would destroy it in seconds
Is that an actual thing someone had planned? Disney Star Wars keeps finding new ways to hurt me.
The Eclipse is in First Order possession tho so that wouldn't work, it was the base from which Sloane built the First Order. In canon granted though, its just a standard Executor Class.
That is the most tragic thing?
In direct combat the Eclipse would rape the Supremacy.
My favorite Star Destroyer-Type is the Harrower-Class Star Destroyer from SWTOR's Sith Empire. In short, it was a better Venator with a cooler Gladiator-esque silhouette.
At the time was a dreadnought.
+1 this, the Harrower has an excellent and aggressive aesthetic.
My ideal fleet would use Victory's, Venator's, and Harrowers. I Think you could set them up to use a lot of the same production frames with some minor alterations, and get them equipped to support each other in a battle group.
same here
@@Jeikobu I like your idea but for me I would Harrowers and Bulwark II's
Can never get too much of Spacedock. Always great!
I have been itching for a new Empire at War game for the longest time- especially if it included the Clone Wars era.
I wouldn't even mind the Sequel era simply because the Resurgence-Class Star Destroyer was one of the few new designs I liked and I love the idea of taking command of one.
A Sequel Era story would likely be leaps and abounds better then the movies story, so I'd actually be quite excited to see one!
Ever heard of the Remake Mod? There's also Fall of the Republic and Thrawn's Revenge.
There's actually some good clone wars mods
Awakening of the Rebellion is another amazing EAW mod
I have used mods before, but my game always crashes before I can do anything meaningful.
Also, seeing a modern take on Empire at War would be amazing.
I like the Resurgent class but man does it just not 'exist' outside of the movies right now.
I want a FO era strategy game, I want to know what happened in the actual wars of that period as there is basically a galaxies worth of room to write in seeing as the movies didn't.
The Sequel merchandise did not so well and the receptions were not so positiv. Disney will avoid the Sequel era for a time and let Feloni and Favreau build the connections between Original and Sequel.
Another problem is that you can do very little with the First Order Conflict, the entire conflict did not last a year and in that year the Resistance was running all the time.
I would like to see at least a bit more involvement of the Resurgent.
@@18Krieger I feel like you could fudge the numbers and no one would notice really. A year across a galaxy could still have some decent 'width' to it if each battle or story is set over a week for around 52 battles or weeks worth of conflict if they are all back to back.
The Empire at War Forces of Corruption has mods, some of them set in the time of the Sequel Trilogy where the Resurgent-class is featured along with First Order units and other stuff.
@@igncom1 Yeah you are right, people are complaining anyway so you could retcon it. They would have to come up with something regarding the power of the First Order and Resistance. For the First Order you could use the Imperial Warlords that still existed and let them join the First Order boostering their ranks. Gives a chance for internal strive and imperial on First Order conflicts.
Well and for the Resistance you could finally introduce the New Republic Military proper.
It was utterly stupid how the movies portrayed the conflict. They wanted the same "rebels vs empire" scenario but with a faction a tenth the size of the original empire. And for some dumb reason, a republic that doesn't protect its interests in the outer rim and actively dismantled most of its navies just to have the setting forced into the same situation as the original trilogy. That's why legends is still superior. The Empire still exists, but the New Republic has them matched in firepower and armament. The Republic have the Viscount, which is a gargantuan Mon Cala ship the size of a super star destroyer. They have two actual super star destroyers that they captured. And they have a new line of ships that can match the imperial star destroyers 1 to 1.
I realized #2 as he said it. Then the "bear with me a second on this TRUST ME" appeared and I've never felt more terrified.
Honestly, the Resurgent Class is the best ship to come out of the Sequels, imo. Even if I have a soft spot for the Silencer.
Also, the Raider is probably my favourite ship in star wars, period. The fact it can also carry a hero's squadrons worth of my favourite start fighter ever, may help.
Personally I liked the MC-85 class Raddus more, bit they szill are close contenders.
Im so glad I'm not the only one who actually likes the Supremacy
The descriptions had me rolling XD
And the size definitely makes sense
Sadly its the most interesting ship design in the ST (i'm not someone that cares all that much for the Resurgence class honestly)
What I like about the Venators was that it was PRACTICAL ! Like seriously most of the Star Destroyers popped out by the Empire are so wasteful in resources and manpower that I just facepalm every time I see em. The Venators though may have been smaller and less armed but they can get the job done with less materials and personnel. Pretty sure if Tarkin stuck to using Venators he'd have enough ships and personnel to cover every star system in the Empire.
The Empire suffers greatly from the "fight the last war" mentality. The Venator, being a hastily designed capital ship for the Republic, was likely the latest patrol cruiser scaled up and with more guns bolted on. So, it sucked in the pitched battles of the Clone Wars, as it was instead meant to project power over multiple star systems with FTL capable strike craft. This in turn, led to the Victory and Imperial Star Destroyers, which would have massacred Separatist fleets. Except, the war was over, and now they were stuck doing the same patrols the Venator had been designed for.
The Empire was never going to keep the Venators. They went on a massive campaign to get rid of all the symbols of the old republic, and considering the Venators were basically the poster boy of the GAR they were among the first to go. Add in that Palpatine was a massive supporter of the Tarkin Doctrine (it's basically Sith 101), and it was inevitable the Imperial was going to replace it.
@@pyronuke4768The venitor repair cost is higher it's very easy to destroy it's hangar doors were very costly and they were extremely underpowered an assault carrier as a main line warship ridiculous
Love these kind of personal take videos. I disagree on some order but only cause my armada collection of models had endeared me to stuff like the gladiator
The personal connection!
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
I loved the Victory-I/Venator pairing from Legends. They complemented each other's roles perfectly and I think it's brilliant that shape-wise one has cut-outs while the other has bulky side additions. Seeing both in imperial grey during that transitional phase before everything was Imperials really sold the idea of Imperial military supremacy both in equipment and tactics.
My problem with the Venator is that they use it as a warship when it's filled with fighters and troop transports, the things a support ship with Carrier and planetary assault in mind and it they want to throw it away in slugging matches with other ships when it doesn't have the armor or guns for it because of it's hanger facilities.
You have to wonder how Venators could actually function there's so much space used for the hangars how did they have power for shields,engines and guns. The Imperial had more guns,armour and shields but they had so much more volume. LAAT's are an even worse example of this in the prequels how did they even fly with all those guns and clones aboard
@@TheBenji800 compact power generation. But really the main reason the republic leaned on the venator so hard is cause they were caught with their pants down - they had to rely on acclamators for abit before they even got the Venator, and the starfighter heavy, point defense riddled nature of the CIS fleet meant it couldn’t rely on only its fighters to ensure a kill. So they were making the most of what they had
The Venator makes sense, if you see it as a peace time patrol cruiser with more guns bolted and rushed into service. It's basically the Republic equivalent of a converted carrier, except it is a carrier converted into a battleship carrier hybrid. The Clone Wars lasted only 3 years, and the Venator showed up in the first weeks. That's definitely not enough time to design and test a proper new warship. It's not even enough time to mass produce a warship.
I like the Venator a lot, It's my second favorite Star Destroyer behind the Resurgent; but the one thing that brings it down for me is I've met so many fans who love it so much that they're borderline brown nosing them. There's been times where I'm like "ok, I get it, you love the Venator, can you just please stop sucking its deck for two seconds?"
The clonewars could have utilised the Victory class more, considering its variety in CIS ships showm.
*"It's Star Wars, it doesn't matter at all." - Spacedock*
Thank you, finally someone said it.
We need more gigantic ships used as mobile bases or as headquarters, heck maybe even as a faction's homeworld, and for them to stay far far out of enemy lines supplying the war effort instead of jumping right into combat with their tiny counterparts
I've always wished that we'd get to see a venator in rebel use in the main canon, seeing as they're basically the perfect ship for them.
Fast sublight speed, enormous hangar capacity, excellent hyperdrive, well armed and armed enough to at least survive against an isd, and with a much smaller crew compliment, they're basically the perfect rebel flagship! Not to mention the galaxy is littered with abandoned ones ever since the empire decided to replace the entire fleet, so sourcing one shouldn't be too difficult
the empire didn't abandon them though, they scrapped them.
Empire scrapped, not left abandoned
Plus the venator takes way too many people for the Rebels to properly manage, especially in the early years where the Venator is more likely to be nabbed
Thanks for including the stats on the "Super Duper-class" star destroyer. Without it, I wouldn't have known it was a vehicle for that deadly substance, Dihydrogen Monoxide. 😛
I agree with you, the Venator has always been my favorite ship of the franchise, ever since I first saw it on screen. It's just a unique and classy design and I don't think there will ever be a Star Wars ship I like more
Same, remember seeing them as a kid in trailers or promos for Episode III and thought it was the coolest shit ever.
I’m happy to see the Venator-class is in your 1st place as well as in my list.
I know I’ve probably said this before but god damn I love how you take so much energy out into your speeches and thought pieces. The maniacal laugh in particular at the start. We’re lucky to have you.
The First Order Dreadnought was named the Mandator IV because it was an indirect reference to the Mandator I and II class, which were Republic-era dreadnoughts. The most well known was the "Pride of the Core"
I believe they were built by Kuat Drive Yards, and the FO Dreadnought was built by the secret branch of KDY that was quietly building ships for the FO before the films
The 'details' on the almost breakdown of the Supremacy screen had me in stitches! Amazing!
In the defense of the Secutor, despite it's not so pleasant look, I feel that these bigger star destroyers (assuming that they were used in the Clone Wars) were the only true counter for the Lucrehulks that CIS used. The Venators were fantastic, but the CIS Lucrehulks were absolute beasts that it took several Venators to even challenge one of them. It can be assumed that the Allegiance class would eventually replace the Secutor.
I can also defend the Mandator IV. Yes, it's a hideous design, but it oddly reminds me of the monitor warships that were used in WW2 and they weren't exactly that pretty either. Their goal was to simply serve as a mobile battleship gun turret and nothing more. Did Monitor vessels make good warships? Far from it, but if you were at Hoth and you had a shield generator in place then grab a Mandator IV and blast that Rebel base away. I doubt even the Ion cannon could only do so much to stop it. And yes, I agree, they should have just done a copy pasta of the Mandator instead of a bunch of ISD Xystons. Planet destroying weapons make way more sense on large platforms that can at least power the weapons to begin with.
I absolutely hate the Secutor just based on aesthetics. Like they said in the video, it's too wide. The Venator bridge looks out of place. It's just a giant triangular brick.
Its role is fine, but the design itself? Yuck.
Some good points, and I don't particularly dislike the siege weapon idea in general, just the way the Mandator did it was a bit bleh.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
I just now realized that Lucrehulk means something akin to "Decommissioned Pile of Money." It's probably not the worst Star Wars ship name, but still....
@@Galadare Must admit it makes perfect sense for the Trade Federation.
Hey hooj, heard about Dan leaving and while that’s sad I’m happy for him and especially happy and excited to see the continued output of content from this channel under your wonderful eye.
nice to see i am not the only one who rank the venator on 1st place
You put the Venator at the top, so you've made me happy with the list.
I agree with your #1 The Venator is jus aweome, I always viewed it as a sort of "assault carrier", a ship that can deploy massive amounts of fighters and a shit-ton of ground forces, while just barely having enough firepower to destroy another ship should it get too close. Also, I like the different doctrine it emphasizes between the two factions in the clone wars. CIS tends to favor larger ships with a lot of lighter turrents on them while the Venator has heavier guns but not very many of them. It's a very appropriate wartime design and really raised my expectations of a Star Destroyer's capabilities.
The venitor is cool but don't forget why the empire replaced it the ship was costly to maintain the big hanger was a huge Target wasn't hard to destroy them there firepower wasn't efficient to many fighters in one ship and the war showed the inefficiencies of an assault Carrier as a Main line warship which is why it's replacement the secutor only ran 700 at most and wasn't a main line wardhip
I appreciate the light-hearted nature of some of your recent videos.
And the venator is the best star destroyer.
Venator enjoyers, assemble 😎
Finally someone who has some love for the FO ships, since they ARE cool AF. And yeah, would be cool if Snoke's throneroom was actually part of a Resurgent class Star Destroyer
Tbh i would have swapped the resurgent and imperial.
Idk the resurgent is a very busy design with lots of layers and is too compact vertically to my liking. When you stop at 7:07 you can count probably 7 or 8 different steps which i find too complicated, the imperial has 3 or 4 and a lot of space that is left empty so that you can take a good look at its overall shape. Plus this means the control tower is just yet another step, there is very little that allows you to destinguish it from the other steps because there are so many of them and the bridge is so close to the rest of the structure. Also can we talk about how in the clip at 7:12 one of the step seems... Hollow? Like the starfighter flies inside the ship and out... I never managed to wrap my head around the resurgent's design. I can more or less understand at a glance how every star wars ship looks like a a whole but not the resurgence.
To me the imperial is just perfectly balanced between complicacy and simplicity. The triangle shape is one of the most boring shape ever yet its use is so amazing.
The fact the resurgence is so ridiculously oversized and overgunned in lore really doesn't help either.
@Spacedock I'm loving all the easter eggs you guys added at 9:03. The more I look the more I find.
For the Imperial class, during the Clone Wars this ship line was to be called the Imperator before the Jedi Purge. Just read up on the Star Wars Cross section books, it in there.
That's the in-universe explanation right? I'm more curious about the real life version, was wondering if someone at some point took things from the first film very literally.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
@@hoojiwana EC Henry knows a lot about behind the scenes work. Like how the original idea for the Star Destroyer were triangle shaped fighters launched from a space carrier, the model of which showed up in Solo. Just get in touch of EC Henry to find your answers.
@@hoojiwana if I remember correctly the in universe explanation sort of mirrors the real life reason in that some early sources did refer to it as the Imperator class but the fact that it was just so ubiquitously known as the imperial star destroyer the name Imperial class just sort of stuck
@@hoojiwana They probably did just take it very literally since the source(I'm pretty sure that the full name first appeared in the Star Wars Sourcebook for the West End Games tabletop rpg) which first gave it the name Imperial-class Star Destroyer also called the Executor a Super-class Star Destroyer(this name was given in the lightly latter Imperial Sourcebook).
In the EU canon has it begin service a year after the empire's rise though I would say 6 months
This is very high quality, Thank You!
I’m actually on the same boat for the Supremacy. IMO its the best use of a super sized warship/dreadnought/space station. Makes more practical sense than the Executor (which still wins look wise though) and the Death Star (without the superweapon too!)
My friend I have not laughed this hard in a long time. Anytime you do these ship breakdowns and you post the stats such as the length the type of engine the crew all of that stuff I always pause it to make sure I read everything.
Well needless to say I stopped it on the super duper class "Star Dreadstroyernaut" and I have not laughed this hard in a long long time. Thank you so much for making my day better lol. Keep up the Great work. ❤️
The Venator is no mere carrier, calling it such is a disservice to the vessel. What it really is, is a planetary siege capable of deploying entire armies in minutes after blasting through an enemy blocade. It has more in common with an Imperium of Man Space Marine Battlebarge than the gladiator or quazar.
Wouldn't that be the Acclamator? The Acclamator has the job of deploying big armies and bases onto planets, having a huge hangar bay to carry a prefab base, shitton of soldiers and a shitton of LAAT Gunships and walkers, all while being well armored and armed enough to protect its content while it enters the planet.
The Venator is more or less a jack of all trades, fulfilling the role of starfighter carrier for space battles, main stay capital ship in said battles, and mobile command base. Something they did out of necessity to be as versatile as they can and ease mass production capabilities
@@granmastersword The aclimator is an assault ship not a Siege Vessel it can't really fight in an engagement it can only gunit to the landing zone. I defiantly want one or two to comeinto the beach head my Venators just punched in for them but in order to be a Siege Vessel you need to do multiple tasks. See the Andromeda from Gene Rodenbersy's Andromeda, or a Battle Fleet Gothic Space Marine Battle Barge.
I tend to view it as more of a mobile military logistics hub. Park in orbit, open the hangar doors, and have troops and supplies constantly being ferried in and out under the direct protection of the guns and squadrons. It makes sense to have that sort of role in your fleet during the Clone Wars, which often called for force projection beyond existing infrastructure.
@@paulshealy1863 The Acclimator can absolutely function as a siege vessel, its armament of turbolasers and torpedoes was primarily meant for orbital bombardment of enemy defenses and its variant the Acclimator-II was specifically designed to capitalize on that as well as becoming a capable combat vessel. The venator can deploy forces but cannot carry as many and puts most of its focus into fighter carriage and ship to ship combat
After playing empire at war I fell in love with the victory class.
Thank you, I had a great laugh when you revealed the 2nd place.
I really like the Harrower Class Dreadnaught from SWTOR, would've liked to see how you think it compares to the other triangle ships
He made a video about his favorite sci fi capital ships of all time about 5-6 years ago and the Harrower class Dreadnought was his second favorite capital ships, don't know if he still feel the same about it now
@@nmdvalkyrie2862 I'm pretty sure the one from years ago was Daniel, the original Spacedock guy. He's gone off to focus on The Sojourn. Hoojiwana is the guy running Spacedock now (and doing a fine job imo), so they're bound to have different opinions on some things
@@ryebread095 ah didn't know that this channel run by different person now, thanks for that
The ships stats for the Supremacy had my in stitches ngl
I have to really disagree with the resurgent's ranking. star destroyers seem to be designed for broadside-style gun combat, so the Resurgent and Gladiator are both designed to have a straight line into their soft insides in-line with their enemy's guns when oriented as intended, and while the Gladiator has a bit of a pass as it seems designed to be a carrier and support ship before anything else, the Resurgent is a primary combat ship so it really doesn't have that excuse.
definitely agree with the Venator, though
Uh, what? All Star Destroyers are designed for forward-quarter engagements, not exchanging broadsides. That's the whole point of the shape: to allow as many guns as possible to fire forwards.
@@GintaPPE1000 nah man, the gun layout is paralell to the keel rather than offset for forward clearance, in a frontal attack only two of the main gun turrets can actually engage (one each side). Also, the bays open forward as well, so that would be even worse design-wise.
I mean, they should be set up for a frontal attack with all guns, what with the shape, but they aren't.
@@Serbobiv123 its outright stated in the lore that the star destroyer shape was meant to maximize forward firepower through converging fire arcs
@@evanhenderson1760 and I agree that they really should be, but if you look at the actual design of the ships, they aren't actually designed that way, the primary armament is both level with itself and parallel with the keel so the front guns block the rest from firing forward.
@@Serbobiv123 I think the intention is that the Star destroyer stays below the plane of its target so it can fire all of its main cannons forward and upwards. Realistically the Star destroyer’s armament is divided between hundreds of weapons emplacements that cannot be seen that are able to be focused forwards
Hilarious and amazingly abitrary video in the best way possible! I love these b/c their fun and I can just relax watching them. Can't wait for more. To that end, I too love the Victory, especially FractalSponge's interpretation. The Victory, Raider, Resurgence, and EC Henry's Imperial Nebulon-B are my favorite "Imperial" ships in no particular order.
But what if imperial navy actually used them as destroyers?
I mean, torpedo boat destroyers grew to the point that nowadays they have eclipsed some light cruisers in size and most battleships in firepower. And in current fleets they make up the bulk of the combat capable vessels.
What if, maybe, just maybe they're the ships that makes the most sense for Star Wars and it's the rest that is plain wrong?:D I mean, we've already discussed the small fighters making little sense and carriers making not much more sense in navy with FTL capable "fighters". Do what you did as a joke for "fixing star destroyer"(except mirror not the bottom side, but top side with extra sensor systems), throw out majority of drop troops and hangars outside of specialist models and build the rest of the navy around treating such ship as light cruiser/destroyer. As much as you complemented small ships, those were compliments to their design philosophy and/or doctrine, not their scale.
9:08 my favorite parts of this data card:
“propulsion: 2-stroke lawnmower engine”
“Crew: probably has some yeah.”
“Utilities: 4x American Cheese Measurement Devices” [is that a thing? I could see using Kraft Singles as your unit of measure…]
“Role: For initiative”
0:30 we have ventured into the twilight zone. He cannot be stopped. The doors are locked, the home button is disabled, pause is unavailable, and the volume controls are locked at maximum. He cannot be stopped.
So, one thing to note, the "newer" version of the "Interdictor-class Star Destroyer" is actually the Immobilizer-418 Interdictor Cruiser. It's not a star destroyer but rather a modified Vindicator-class Heavy Cruiser, which is one of those ships in the "not a star destroyer but utilizes similar design concepts" category like the Acclimator.
I would say that ships having different weapons on different parts of the hull would make sense if they're expecting to frequently take a specific position. IE: if the Venator is expected to act as a carrier/assault ship, giving it weapons that are better at attacking planets on the belly with anti ship weapons on top. Not that there's much in the way of difference unless the plot calls for it, but you know, if there was.
About the only thing I would change about the general design would be to center line the big guns to give them better firing arcs, as they're way way too restricted by that central column. Rigging them up so that you could get six to eight of them on full 270° overlap would be incredibly dangerous.
I think there's storyline logic to the ridiculousness of the Xyston class. When the Emperor went into the unknown region, he took a bunch of imperial class destroyers with him. By avoiding contact with the rest of the galaxy, they never felt the need to upgrade their designs. While the First Order upgraded and came up with their own designs, the Emperor thought he had the most badass ships by sticking these huge canons on the bottom of the old imperial class destroyers, while in reality his navy was 30 years behind the times.
Love the stats / breakdown for the Supremecy Super-Duper class Star Destroyer
The more casual script suits this kind of video well. You had fun with it. 👍
Fun fact: during the end of the Clone Wars, the Imperial-class was originally called the "Imperator-class". And, along side the Victory-class, this SD was the sign of the Republic's inevitable transition to the Empire.
9:14 has the most hilarious schematic display stats I've ever seen on this channel. "EMBARKED CRAFT: 30x Death Stars, 13x Death Star IIs, 1s Suspicious Ford Transit van."
I do quite like the idea of the Supremacy being the mobile homeworld of the First Order, it also makes way more sense for them to build it than Starkiller Base, since it makes it somewhat plausible that the First Order was able to hide in the Outer Rim and build up a massive military force without permanently occupying planets. They could have even explained it's massive cost and size by saying it was an unfinished Imperial project that was revived and finished.
Hey Spacedock, love your stuff!
The last decades previous obsession with what were gargantuan sized flying wings really did something for me. While I really like the flying Doritos we've come to know and love, the Supremacy with its wide wingspan is just so menacing and if you can tell from my name the style of the ship being included in Stellaris: Overlord has been very well received by me. Shoutout to the Supremacys little sibblings, Sactuary II the Command Ship of Thanos and the U.S.S. Argo from the Monster Verse.
Thank you for your number two choice. Brave, and correct. Creating a fully mobile construction yard and HQ was just the right choice.
I love the Executor-class mainly because of the little bit of blue lighting against black then gray. That has been my favorite color scheme ever since I first saw the movie as a kid. 😁
I agree with most of this list, the only ones I'd change are the top 3. The Resurgent is my personal favorite for many of the reasons you listed. The Supremacy I'd put more towards the middle as I feel, like the Death Stars, it's too many eggs in one basket. I put the Venator in second place because, while it is a very solid design, the amount of fans I've met who basically worship it almost to the point of brown nosing has slightly soured it in my tastes.
I had to read the title of this twice!
Love it.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the Arquitens class! In my humble opinion, smaller ships are more difficult to design because of the size limitations.
Unless the bigness has a crucial necessity, just making things bigger with more of everything is lazy and lacks the reality of compromise in engineering design.
Bravo for a wonderfully made and expressed list!
And The Emperor raised the Star Destroyer up on high, saying, 'The Dark Side, bless this thy Star Destroyer, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the Sith Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the nerfs, and blergs, and bantha, and kowakians, and eopies, and breakfast cereals, and mynocks, and large Tauntauns. And the Sith Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou build the ship. Then shalt it's sides be three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt build, and the number of the sides shall be three. Four shalt thou not build, neither build thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then launchest thou thy Holy Star Destroyer of Sith towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
I like that you so anticipated the general viewer reaction to putting the Supremacy as 2nd place that you had to be like "Wait! I can explain!"
4:19 according to official merchandising for the orignal star wars movies the ISD was supposed to be called the "Imperator - class", at somepoint name "imperial-class" become more common (for a reason i do not know). so when ROTS was released this contradiction and renaming was brought into universe canon.
The detachable escape structure idea from the section about the Supremacy sounds almost like Anubis’s escape structure off of his flagship in Stargate SG-1
The Victory is so similar to the Imperial because it was its direct predecessor. Victorys were designed to make up for the Venator's shortcomings as a mainline battleship (since the two were supposed to operate together), meaning it had a large amount of firepower, but little carrier capabilites.
Would love to see an actual breakdown of the Supremacy after that. I genuinely didn't know it was literally just a mobile base, like a much smaller version of the Starkiller base.
I love EVERYTHING about the joke breakdown stats for the Supremacy
Jesus, that spec sheet on the Omega Mega Super Duper Class is just brilliant.
I can respect your list, and for the most part, agree with it. minor lore tidbits as well as my own personal opinion.
The Victory Class and Gladiator Class:
The Victory Class was one of the first, purpose-built ASSAULT Star Destroyers of the Clone Wars. As you've said, the Venator is an All-Rounder. The Victory was built to be a more attack with its own guns ship over a Carrier. The Gladiator was designed as a counterpart to the Victory-Class, intended to be a dedicated Carrier. It was a step away from the Venator, separating the ship's two roles into more dedicated platforms.
The Imperial Class:
several have already mentioned it, but the Imperial-Class Star Destroyers, during the design phase, was the Imperator-Class. It was renamed "Imperial", I feel because it was the first new design, built after the founding the of the Empire.
The Interdictors:
The Empire had two Interdiction Ships, and you covered both. you have the Interdictor Star Destroyer, built off an ISD-1 Frame, and then you have the Immobilizer 418 Cruiser, built off of a Vindicator Cruiser's Frame. There is a third ship of the Vindicator line, that uses the Immobilizer's Frame, called the Enforcer. Doesn't have the Gravity Well Generators, but keeps the bubbles for stronger reactors, adding more guns.
The Venator:
Yes, the Venator is an excellent ship. However, there is one massive, glaring flaw with it, and honestly almost every single Imperial-Use Warship that takes on the Dagger/Spearhead shape. And that's the god-awful Goose-neck Bridge Towers. Why in (Insert Deity of Choice)'s creation, did ANYONE think that at least 200m of vertical lifts and decks, between your Command Section, AND THE REST OF THE SHIP, was a good idea? The Bridge Towers on a Venator just scream as loud as possible with as many megaphones as possible, SHOOT ME! I'M IMPORTANT!
The bridge tower of the Venator is literally the only thing keeping me from liking this ship. If it were even half the height it is, or.... even better, if it were at the top of the superstructure mound that serves as the bridge's base, it would be perfect. (minus ventral main batteries, but every imperial design suffers from that)
Glad someone agrees with me on how good the Resurgent class and The Supremacy looks.
No horde large enough to make me step down from the hill I'm standing on.
The ship stats graphic for the Supremacy is pure art.
I love how the Mega Class ended up being used by Mr Blobby, and has an embarked Transit, which we all know is one of the most ominous things out there
The Acclamator is the perfect spec-ops shop. Small enough that no one pays attention to it (there's that handful of Imp2's over there! AHHH), and being primarily a transport ship with a fist and thick skin, you still have enough room to do about anything
I love the ship stats given for the Supremacy. It is indeed very long and really very wide.
I actually really like that the empire doesn't paint its ships. Its thematically on point about how the individual is irrelevant. Similar to the uniformity of the stormtroopers.
Venator is definitely one of the best "Destroyer", but I absolutely love the Raider-class. Really want to see it more center-most on future SW media
Agreed top ten for sure but the ISD 1 and 2 out pro-form the venitor in every way
I had to pause the video when that ship breakdown for the number two spot came up. the propulsion stat in particular make me wheeze.
The Resurgent class is an Imperial class that got thunked on the head real hard and came out with a massive underbite, and is probably one of the least attractive ships in this list.
Loving spacedocks new style! Its awsome
Loved how you noted the callout to the Mega class in Stellaris. Super useful mobile stations in that game.
"It's Star Wars, it doesn't matter at all," that hit harder then it should have. Sums up my overall feelings for the last couple of years.
'A Venator that was left out in the sun.' Aces, mate. Aces. 😂😂😂
Oh, that image from the thumbnail is art used for Star Wars: Armada!
I've been looking forward to this.
Oh...I love this segment! I needed the laugh. What sarcasm...Pizza slice. That's a good one.
The 'SuperDuper-Class' stats screen is comedy gold :D