Why MIDCARD CHAMPIONSHIPS are So GREAT
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2018
- DAVE KNOWS that MIDCARD TITLES are a very important part of Pro Wrestling. In the WWE or TNA or WCW, midcard championships have a long and exciting history. So while they have sometime fallen from grace, they are worth preserving and here are just some reasons why.
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Any championship can mean something if booked well.
Absolutely.. here's hoping that they do
@JohnACorp782 hardcore title is a gimmick belt dumb dumb
👍🏽
So true 👍.
I used to enjoy the mid cards belts more than the regular championship. Because it felt like a belt that didn't have as many limitation around it. When I was a kid I remember watching Raw and it was The Rock vs X-Pac for the WWF Championship. Even as a 10 year old I knew X-Pac wouldn't win. So it took all excitement out of the match.
I understand protecting the top tier people, it's what draws money. But if I'm going to watch a match I need to believe that anything is possible. Guerrero vs Lesnar was a great example of someone breaking the mold, unexpectedly. And that's what keeps the viewers hooked.
Agreed as well
One of main reason why you would never see The Rock Vs X-Pac for the Belt in Japan for example AJPW, you always had like 10 guys who was in the line of contendership, Steve Williams, Traue, Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa, Hansen, Akiyama, in the beginning of the 90s Tsuruta, later Vader and Johnny Ace. Everyone of these could win the title which makes things a lot more interesting
@skytwohigh8721 we got lucky with that in the extreme early 2000sv with the WWF. Triple H, Angle, Undertaker, The Rock, and Stone Cold. We really miss that
This very problem was addressed by The Miz during the early days of Smackdown Live. He brought the Intercontinental Title with him during the draft, but after a few weeks or so of not really doing much, he infamously gave an impassioned tirade on "Talking Smack" in which he vowed to shove the title down our throats, to make the IC Title matter again. Needless to say, he did just so, ticking off practically everybody on the Smackdown Live roster while propelling himself, and the title, to the main event slot. It was kinda weird to see the WWE Championship relegated to the first hour semi-main, but I welcomed the Miz's ascension, seeing as it was remarkably different that most WWE programming at the time and that Miz was absolutely killing with everything he did.
I still believe no mercy 2016 should of had the IC title main event, God that match was awesome (no pun intended)
Benjamin Kellog Yeah. That's exactly what made me begrudgingly respect Mr Mizanin lol I never bought him as a threat to even myself before then, but he grew a major pair n put in some muthafuckin work.
Then Deam Ambrose defeared the Miz for the I.C. belt, & it was barley seen agian? 😕 i think lol
I totally agree, Miz made the IC belt re-happen
I think you saying, "the miz killing everything he did" means something different to me. He is just awful.
NJPW does secondary titles right. A good secondary champion can easily be argrued as the actual best. The secondary champion is inherently the top contender if not the number one contender. It made wrestling more interesting when an IC champ used his status to challenge the world champ. Shawn Micheals and Mr. Perfect did. But the most successful was probably the Ultimate Warrior.
NJPW.. seems like they are doing a lot more right now over the WWE
+Dave Knows Wrestling WWE had Onwer World Champs claim it AFTER their lose, like Reigns.
Jg3000 don’t forget Macho Man, though Ultimate Warrior did elevate the IC title to basically world champion status, we can’t forget what Macho Man did in his own right to help cement (at the time) that title. Also, holding the IC title back then meant a whole lot and made sure you were getting a chance to become a world champion
I agree, championships should be meant for the champions at heart!
YEAH!
Basically, give the belts ppv quality main events. Don't treat the wrestler as more important than the championship. If a title match goes before a non-title main event, than that shows the audience that the belts truly are just props.
I agree with everything except the word basically
Wrestlemania 18 though. Hogan and Rock were bigger than the belt
Whenever this topic comes up I remember back to 2002-2003, when for that brief 7 month period when there were no midcard belts at all in WWE. That was hard time to watch because so many guys had nothing to do at all. They had the two world and tag teams on each brand, with the women's and crusierweight. They wanted to push Matt Hardy and the only belt they could use was the crusierweight because he wasn't going to get the WWE title for sure. It didn't fit well because Matt's not a crusierweight; so you need mid card belts for those guys you might want in the main event some day.
That was a rough time, absolutely. I was so elated when Austin brought the IC back
It was break after they had the influx of wcw w/ WWE belts. Than they ran tournaments. They still had the WWE tag belts, cruiserweight b4 they ruined and womens belt. Than gave Smackdown tag belts w teams like mysterio edge and Los Guerreros. I mean the US tournament had Taker Guerrero and Mysterio. And Booker Van Dam Y2J and Christan fighting over the ic how can u beat that?
The best workers should have these belts as they have the ability to get up and coming world title guys over before feeding them to the main event status. I've noticed over my many years watching wrestling that the best storylines are born out of midcard title disputes as the fans can see that there are several things at stake such as prestige of being the holder of a hotly contested title and the opportunity for the winner to move on and challenge for the world title down the line. The midcard title also provides the opportunity to put your best workers in the ring together for really good matches. The best workers are not main event guys all the time, but a promotion can milk a bunch of good contests for a year or more with good booking. Lastly, a midcard tile should always be a 'gatekeeper' belt; if the booker sees main event potential in a guy, run him through your best worker on a second tier stage and see if he gan get over or complete with him. Or, if the prospect is on the fast track to the world title, have him destroy the highly regarded champ ala Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg, which fuels the run to the top title.
I am definitely with you with midcard titles being the belt you give to the work horse. I hinted at that a bit in this video, but I mentioned it more in a previous video.. I totally agree
And now we have a lower card title in the 24/7 championship which is actually enjoyable all thanks to people like R Truth and Drake Maverick
When talking about midcard belts, I'm reminded of an all time Wrestlemania classic that stole the show. It was a match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship between Randy Savage and Ricky Steamboat. (That was the highest belt that Steamboat won in WWF.) If booked correctly, WWE's midcard titles can have prestige and mean something again.
I agree with you 100% and I look at RVD as a perfect example he made the ECW title just about as important as the ECW world championship at the time
Yes it's such a great accomplishment when you can make the midcard strap more important than the top
Only 15k subs ?? this channel is seriously underrated !! I mean, this guy knows a hell alot about pro wrestling than those "WhattaCulture" and "WrestleTalk" bafoons !!
Thank you. I really do appreciate the support and the kindness.. but I do feel the need to point out that Oli Davis and WrestleTalk helped get me started. So if you like this content just know WrestleTalk had a lot to do with it. Thanks again and I and grateful for such kindness
Well, anything’s better than Wrestlelamia. Am I right?! LOL!
Love this channel, by the way. First heard about it from Wrestling With Wregret. Gladly subscribed afterwards.
Just kidding about Wrestlelamia, by the way.
You said exactly what I thought when I saw the thumbnail. The champion makes the title, not the other way around. Secondary titles are so important in so many ways. Build stars, build confiedence in future champions and main eventers, a trial to see if a wrestler can effectively can draw money as a champion and as a final run for a quality wrestler whose career may be winding down to help elevate a younger wrestler. And a title means marquee value. As long as that title can be seen as respectable by the said title holder.
Right on and Right on!
Well said
why did you record this in an empty echoing room...
A tin can
Another great video good to see you Dave
Happy new years
P.s sorry if I was annoying you in your qna a couple months ago I was just so excited as you are the 1st youtuber I have ever talked to and im very happy bout that
Keep up the great work
Davedefinitelyknowswrestling
Thanks! Happy New Year to You Too! You were not annoying me at all.. hope you come to more Livestreams! Glad that you were excited! Thank you again for such kind support
When I was growing up, the IC Belt was just as prestigious as the WWF Title, if not more and there was massive respect for the I.C. The I.C. Champs were always on the hardest workers in the Company and was used to see if Mid-Card Guys could push in the Main Title picture
I feel the same way
Dave I just discovered your channel, and I love it !!!
Love ur channel watch many wrestling podcast and videos urs actually break down wrestling stuff especially since wrestling is a big world
I know some believe that we need less belts in wwe but I think we need two more for each brand as 3rd tier belts. It will help elevate lower midcard and also give them something to do and also elevate the ic & us championships
Really? I am not a fan of third tier, I would be if there was no brand split. But I do see what you're saying. I think it works as long as WWE doesn't blur the divisions. I shouldn't see a guy trying to win the 3rd belt and failing and then next week he wins the 2nd belt. That is what they often do and it just makes the 2nd tier belt look lesser
Dave Knows Wrestling well it would work as long as they establish each belt in the way you have to rank up to move on to the next title, if you are able to move up or even skip a certain belt it should establish how hot a contender that wrestler is. I know in the wwe of today that wouldn't happen but if it did it'd make the titles and superstars feel more important
I think the only problem with those kind of belts is that many fans will look at them as meaningless, and if you want those belts to mean something you will need to put them first on a similar level as the midcard belts... It's really weird, it can work but I don't know if WWE can do it.
@@MauFerrer2000 WCW/NWA TV title meant something. It was a third tier belt and was seen and defended regularly. Plus the TV time limit also helped with generating heat for heel Champs
In my mind when I was growing up a fan,the secondary belts were meant to say "This is The Next Guy" that could become The Man.and the NWA U.S. title was sometimes marketed as the #1 contender to the World Title.and secondary title should give creditability to rising stars cause we as fans invest in a wrestlers journey to the top.who didn't love it when HBK or Bret Hart became Triple Crown Champions.and not everyone is meant to be World Champion..oh God we could have an hour conversation about this..
Glad to see someone else who cares about midcard titles too!
Filmation77 the last sentences of your statement perfectly explains the Jinder Mahal situation... if they took their time they could’ve eventually made him a Main Event-status heel (not that he was a main event talent) but more of a gatekeeper that would’ve elevated an established babyface but he didn’t deserve to win it at that time he did
I remember the NWA/WCW belt lineup when they filmed from the small Atlanta Studio. World Championship, National Championship, US Title, Jr. World Title, World TV title, US Tag Team Championships, National Tag Team Titles, Wolrld 6 man championships, and even a Mid-Atlantic Title (Sam Houston held that little belt, lol!) This was before UWF folded into NWA/WCW and there were several merger bouts UWF TV vs NWA TV and US tag vs. National Tag (I think.) Good times, I miss those days!
Another great video Dave, I remember seeing RVD win the television title on vhs, my dad got it for me.
Nice.. RVD and the TV title... what a great VHS to have
I'm writing this in 2022. Roman Reigns has unified the two big titles, the World Championship and the Universal Championship, and has negotiated a deal with the WWE to become a part time wrestler, only defending the Unified Championship on big PPVs. As a result, the IC and US titles have been restored to their former glory, with all the pomp and circumstance of a World Title on TV. They're also being held by absolute monsters, one good (Bobby Lashley) and one evil (Gunther) so every match they have are absolute classics. It appears that Roman Reigns has ascended to some sort of Wrestling Nirvana, so I'm grateful that HHH, the new head of creative, realized that fans need to see title matches and made the mid-card belts the most sought after belts at this moment in time.
I Agree That the Intercontinental Championship great because I would get to see defended on tv.I wish the IC and US Championships were treated like the prestigious belts they are.Maybe in the future you can explain the importance of the third tier Championships I would be interested in that one too good video Dave 👍.
Thanks! Good to know
As a kid i couldn't afford to order PPVs either. I felt that.
I watched a lot of WCW Saturday Night and WCW Worldwide as a kid so I have a lot of nostalgia for the WCW Television Championship.
I personally love midcard titles. NWA/WCW was the company that showed me that midcard titles can and do matter. The epic feud over the US Title between Magnum TA & Nikita Koloff, Ronnie Garvin vs. Tully Blanchard for the National Heavyweight title, Arn Anderson defending the TV title on TV every week, Booker T vs. Chris Benoit for the TV title in their best of seven in the 90s. In the WWF, all the legendary feuds over the Intercontinental title (which I remember you talked about in another video), and definitely RVD's ECW world TV Title run which could've gone longer had he not gotten injured. I think midcard belts still definitely mean a lot today sometimes depending on the title and/or company. The WWE IC belt might not mean squat these days but the IWGP IC title is main event worthy.
I too love midcard titles... when done right
You should have said earlier that you have a comic channel. Two things I love: Wrestling and Comics.
You and me both.. I only really started working on it now, glad you're on board. THANK YOU for the SUPPORT!
Dave Knows Wrestling Iam looking forward to a bright future of your channels. :-)
Thank you so much for the kindness
Damn. Everything you laid out here perfectly explains he importance of a consistent second tier title. The WWE Intercontinental and ECW TV Title were my favorite championships growing up.
Thank you so much for appreciating the video. I'm glad that someone likes midcard belts like I do
It's important for the people that are champion to take parid and honor in there title whether it's a top or mid card title try to make it prestige
I was about to sleep but damn, Dave uploaded a video. Quick Question: What are your prediction for WK12? Keep up the good Dave!
I want Okada to win, but I think Naito might. And I think Jericho is putting Kenny Omega over
Great video man awesome job anyway how do you feel about GFW, ROH, NJPW, & LuchaUnderground how do feel those titles & which title would you say is there mid card title for those companys. #DaveKnowsWrestling
I still think it's the X Division title, ROH is the TV title, NJPW was the IC, but now I think the US might have more attention. I think these companies are great and it's good to see more competition for wrestling
Right yeah the US title for NJPW title might mean a little more then IC title since now we have stuff with kenny & jericho thanks reply.
Dave this is only the second comment I've ever made. On anything I've ever subscribed to or cared about regarding professional wrestling. They are both for your Channel. I am new at this so please bear with me. Secondary championships are very important to me specifically because I lived near Chicago growing up and Rosemont Horizon which is now the Allstate Arena and has been for twenty years or better always hosted how shows. The world champion never showed up to entertain the crowd but it was the Intercontinental Champion was always there. I'm a super huge fan of the Intercontinental title champion because they actually put on her show and actually show up to work and actually do the job and that is to entertain the audience when Hulk Hogan was the world champion and never showed up when Macho Man Randy Savage was the world champion and never showed up at least we had Shawn Michaels at least we had Bret Hart
Well hey welcome and may I say it is an honor to know that you found my videos thought provoking enough to speak on them. Thanks so much. And yes, I too have a very similar affinity for the IC title, also because I saw it on regular TV more often thanks to Bret. I hope to get more of your memories and opinions in the future, maybe even in a livestream
secondary and tertiary titles are important--they help to push wrestlers and give experience to future world champs. The list of wrestlers who have held the WWE IC belt, The NJPW IC Belt, the WCW/NWA US title and the WCW/NWA TV, The ROH and ECW TV titles reads like a list of who's who of wrestling history.
Agreed and for that matter, I actually hate it when wrestlers go down from top tier to second tier. I know it's an attempt to re-establish credibility to the title, but I think it's moving backwards
New Japan does a awesome job of getting their midcard singles titles over, besides the IC title being main event tier after wk 8, Kenny omega has did a great job with the us title to the point that could be a main event title if wanted, and ik you said weight class titles don't count but the jr heavyweight title post 2010 has been drowning in prestige too, guys like Prince devitt (I heard he became a king, a demon king) kushida, Kota Ibushi, ricochet, will osperey, and Marty Scurll from 2010 to today have really elevated it too.
I don't deny that the Jr Heavyweight belt is a very prestigious belt. I was just pointing out that for the purposes of my definition I wasn't counting them. Not taking away from their value. I just didn't want to throw weight class restricted titles into the mix because that throws off the equation. Plus, they tend not to be counted among triple crown or grand slam records
Awesome a comics channel subbed.
Thank you Rick!!! You're the Man!!
Yes mid card was my favourite
On the top you can smell the ego through the screen
Tag team, intercontinental, hardcore, USA title, cruiserweight etc.
They saw the most action and the efforts from the wrestlers
Back in the territory days the promotion would have a regional title and in the case of the NWA a world champion would go from territory to territory defending it. So if a territory had TV they could have their champion on TV every week and when the world champion came to town go on TV to cut promos to get people to see him defend it at their house shows.
mid card belts are stepping stones to greater things or an achievement award
Not in WWE, see my Downfall of the IC title video to find out about that
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I don't watch WWE anymore .just highlights on TH-cam.
same goes for AEW.
talent is there in both cases it's the booking and story lines. I do enjoy MLW these are only my opinions
and I do enjoy your videos
First, thank you. And I was referring to how the idea of that the IC title is a stepping stone isn't really true, I made a recent video proving it
to make the Midcard Championships mean more in 2018 give the World or Universal Title to the guys that the company thinks is No.1 and the IC or US Title to the most over guy in the company !! And NEVER let a Midcard Champion job to somebody in a non Title Match !! .... also every Undertaker Match means more than a Title is bullshit. Taker is gone soon or later, but the belts will stay forever !!!
Managing midcard belts isn't hard.. why can't WWE get it right
+Dave Knows Wrestling Taker should have been an IC champ.
Maybe the midcard champs should never wrestle in non title singles matches.
For some companies it can be hard. New Japan currently has two secondary championships, the IWGP IC and US, but both are currently held by main event-level talent and regularly main event shows. That said, they are still seen as inferior to the top belt, the IWGP Heavyweight title, which is defended less than the other two. It all depends upon how a promotion wants to portray the prestige of the belts, which can be difficult because you don't want to make them as desirable as the main belt, but you don't want them to be worthless either. I've been a big proponent of a secondary NXT title, because I feel it would be a great way to get more meaningful feuds on the roster. But I understand that people can think otherwise.
My only hesitations are that the NXT roster is too small. Also, people spend a short amount of time in NXT, making climbing the ranks kind of tough
Dave Knows Comics brought me here. (well, the algorithm did)
I loved the days the NWA TV title was defended on a regular basis on the weekly show.
The North American Heavyweight championship, and the World Jr. Heavyweight Championship were two titles that I would like to see back. I never thought the Jr. championship should have left in the first place.
I liked the European Championship in the Attitude Era when the likes of D Lo, Val Venis, XPac etc were competing for it. Same with the Intercontinental Championship. Crash Holly as hardcore champion was also enjoyable.
So if the best fighter in the promotion is the world champ, then what is the midcard champion the best of? The best of the rest?
After years of thinking about it, The Intercontinental belt is the best secondary belt. US title would be next imo. I don't know too much about TV titles.
I do like the IC title myself.. at least back in the day
I prefer the term secondary championship personally. Because the function depends on the promotion and what you want to achieve. The Intercontinental Championship is a stepping stone for a world title run. It’s kind of a dry run. At least that’s what it’s supposed to be. In WCW the United States Heavyweight Champion was technically the number one contender for the World Heavyweight Championship. They didn’t use it that way most of the time but it was. A World Television Champion should headline TV events and the world champion should headline big house shows and PPVs. The TNT Championship is kind of an “A-“ title. Not the world title but it can be held by a main eventer or someone who’s on the cusp of a main event run. Ostensibly it’s their World TV title but it’s just not booked that way. It’s kind of “another championship.” I think these are all good ways to book your secondary title. It should mean something and seeing any champion should be an event. They should represent your promotion and be among the best you have to showcase. They’re a good thing but I think they need to be given a lot of dignity and at or near the top of the card or other notable spots. They need to mean more than normal matches
During the mid 1980’s NWA had the United States Heavyweight championship and National Heavyweight Championship. Were these tittles redundant? What are your thoughts?
That's a good questions. Yes and no. I understand that in name there are pretty similar, but with the size of the roster at the time I think they didn't conflict too much. But yes you could make the argument that it wasn't necessary
I loved the WCW Television title, it was a treat to tune in to WCW Saturday Night, or World Wide, and see a prestigious belt being defended. It was a regularly defended title, which kept safe the US & Heavyweight titles from being defended too often on TV, thus saving them for PPV's, and it helped get over up & coming talent.
Maybe unrelated, but some of my fav TV Champions...Booker T and Scott Steiner...and I gotta' say it, Rick Martel. Only 'cuz I feel he was the rare "WWF" talent that got over better w/WCW.
Just my opinion.
Martel is a good answer and I too liked Booker T and I also liked Jericho with it
Dave Knows Wrestling
I forgot Jericho, his run w/Ralphus as JPS (Jericho Personal Security) was absolute gold. Jericho & Angle could switch between roles of white meat baby face/chicken shit heel flawlessly. True masters of their craft.
They could make the IC title more prestigious if they hardly make the title switch hands every so often and also if they were defended in matches other than just plain one on one matches, but be defended in matches like ladder matches and cage matches etc. etc.
I do agree it changes hands too often
In the 60,s the Florida Heavyweight Championship,was the contender forr the NWA titleBrisco vs D.Funk,in Amarillo??
WWE needs to have the up & comers that have never been WWE or Universal Champion compete for the U.S or IC championship compete for like in the eighties, when guys like Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals, The Rock, & HHH did before they were world champions. That would bring more prestige to those belts because these guys would be really fighting to get to the top, & u might be watching ur next big thing coming up through the ranks. Also it would give WWE the opportunity to push the stars that don't get the push they deserve like Shinsuke Nakamura, Bobby Rhoode, & even Mike Cannelles.
I definitely agree with you on that
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Watching former world champs win secondary titles drives me nuts!!!
Growing up, wanting to be a wrestler, I didn't care about the Heavyweight championship. I wanted to be the IC champ in wwe or the TV champ in ecw. Or even US champ in WCW. They always had awesome matches.
i knw im a little late but heres my idea take the tv title and hve it has the main event on tv every week, with a tv time limit like they use to hve, that why fans hve something to look forward too every week. as for the world title save that mainly for ppv or special occasions on tv once in a great while in short kinda go back to some of the old school ways.
I have no problem with that
I agree with you, BIg Dave.
Thank you Big Sean!
I actually always enjoyed the WCW TV Title specifically because you could usually count on seeing it being defended every Saturday night.
I like a weekly midcard title defense myself
What was that shirt you were wearing?
It's a "Word Life" shirt
The European championship seemed to mean more back the day than the IC belt does now. Also, make the belts look like championships again rather than the giant WWE Logo
I do too hate the big logo belt
If I was a wrestling promoter I would hire you in a instant
Thanks! I would do my best not to let you down
Early squad must share Dave
Thank You Stephen!!
Raw and smackdown need television titles for both shows to be defended every episode like a modern day workhorse title
I wish they would do a better job with the belts they already have
One way to book a midcard championship well would be to make it something desirable. While I agree the man makes the championship, it's also in how the man (or woman) is booked. But that's another (lengthy) story. Here's what I would like to see in WWE. The Royal Rumble selects a contender for a top title, so let's use the King of the Ring tournament to select a contender for a midcard title. And for the love of Pete DROP the "King ______" gimmick permanently.
This would give us a chance to take the KOTR winner more seriously.
Also, just once I'd like to see a MITB winner choose a midcard title to pursue. JMHO of course. (Yes, I'm watching old videos. I just discovered this channel recently.)
I do agree that making it something that ppl want is key.. hard to remember when they last did that
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I believe one good recent example is John Cena's open challenge. He elevated some good stars with it. However, WWE seems to want to copy that "magic" formula instead of legitimately build new stars.
The Intercontinental Championship seemed to be like the World Title when I was a kid.
Seemed that way to me too
if every member of a current faction or 3 man team holds a world title how do you guys think it should play out but there's one rule NO breaking up the team or faction (i will subscribe to the best answer besides dave because i am already subbed)
Deyvion Nichols well depends on if they are all holding it via freebird, or they hold numerous world titles from different companies
Caleb Robinson as long as they team doesn't break up it works
Thanks for being subbed! I would love it if somehow there was a 3 person team, all with World Titles. They would be the most dominant team ever. Imagine a one on Raw, Smackdown and NXT and they only reunite on major PPVs and dominate over everyone. Then I'd make another faction or one guy start hunting each member until he gets a strap
Dave Knows Wrestling well Dave you just earned a subscriber on your other channel of course
What I don’t like is the mid card was created when they tried to separate stars from rising stars. They wanted them to stay in the middle of the card so they dropped the heavyweight in the mid card titles and officially the mid card was made and rising stars now have to be separate from mid carders
Honestly I think there Better when they have some sort of catch to them like the t.v. title being defended every t.v.show and the hardcore title pre 24/7 rule where every match was hardcore
I def like when they are on every TV show being defended
The old NWA US title was the best mid card title ever! The US champ was always mostly seen as the #1 contender for the the NWA title. That US belt was highly regarded back in the day..
I have seen the WWE midcard belts status improve recently. Because of the Miz's work as IC champ that belt is basically the main belt on Raw now and the top baby face of the people, Seth Rollins now holds it after months of battles with the Miz and Finn Balor making it more prestigious to that whole brand considering the universal champ having a part time contract. There has been much craving for US championship on SD live because it keeps the mid card at their best knowing that the title itself is being won and defended by former world champions and is building relevance instead of title hot potato.
Yeah and that's my thing, the IC Belt is solid, but the US belt brings it down Midcard belts so much for the WWE
always enjoyed the ic title matches mr perfect vs bret hart
razor vs hbk benoit vs Jericho
macho man vs steamboat
Guerrero vs rvd
so many great champs and really underrated champs like regal
I have always been a big fan too. Def have similar mindsets
Dang Dave, it's impressive that you haven't changed your music in over five years. Although, the mic needed work lol.
I know someone with a Degrassi and a 21 Jump Street reference in their name ain't cracking on me about staying stuck in the past
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I love you man
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Also, we're probably around the same age because nobody ever gets that reference.
Intercontinental Championship was legendary. Higher viewed then the main titles in NWA, NWJP, WWF at one time till NWA put the heat on. Then all titles went through them. I've mever understood that though.
You should do a video on "Why tertiary championships are so great/important".
I personally believe they are, such as the WWE European Championship or the NEVER Openweight Championship as they serve more than being stepping stones to mid-card or even the primary world titles. These tertiary belts are important to a company because it rewards lower-card or up-and-coming wrestlers and adds prestige. It could reward wrestlers for their hard work over a long period of time such as Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels and British Bulldog winning the WWE European Championship. It also can give former main event wrestlers or even older wrestlers a title to win in order to re-establish themselves in the heiharchy while adding more prestige and upping the belt's value like former IWGP Heavyweight Champion Yuji Nagata winning the NEVER Openweight Championship.
While I like the NEVER Openweight, it's hard for me to defend tertiary belts because I actually don't like them. In terms of rewarding hardwork, that's what a midcard belt should be. I also don't like former main event guys getting lower tier belts.
Ultimately, for me, it comes down to a championship only having value if it is special and a third tier is one too many for me
I can't exactly comment on other promotions' title situations with any reliable authority, but in WWE at least, I'd say midcard belts can still have relevance, provided they are held by credible contenders and prominently featured on their respective shows. The real trick, as always, is you must make the prize truly desirable. Right now, the US Title is being pushed to the moon on Smackdown Live, ironically because of two reasons, one pro and one con, that you mentioned, Dave. Dolph Ziggler just fought the match of his life at last month's PPV, but uh-oh, he left the belt lying in the ring, indicating he doesn't think the belt is valuable to him. Not to worry, arbitrary title tournament to the rescue! The listing of tourney competitors is quite interesting to me: Bobby Roode, Baron Corbin, Jinder Mahal. These guys have been hovering around or in the main event scene for quite a while; their being in the tournament, to me, suggests they feel the US Title is a worthy honor to go after. Also, next week we're getting a first round matchup in which the Hype Bros explode! Sure, that feud's been building for a little while, but now that a potential title opportunity has come their way, you can expect the intensity to ratchet up quite a lot. It's not a completely perfect title picture, but certainly healthy enough to generate some positive buzz which they can hopefully build off nicely.
I think a big distinction is that whoever has the belt should be someone that people want to have a title. Before Jinder had the WWE Title, no one was complaining that he was over due for a belt. Sami Zayn, Samoa Joe, Nakamura, Bobby Roode, Cesaro, these guys have a fanbase that wants to see them with some gold
Another example for me would be the NEVER Openweight title, it was meant for young and up-and-coming wrestlers but because of hard hitting matches from the likes of Ishii, Shibata, Takagi, Goto, Makabe, etc. It is know associated with stiff and strong style matches, I'm always excited to see the OPEN title being defended because I know we're gonna get a banger.
In my opinion, Shibata ruined the NEVER Openweight title. I felt he didn't belong in the division and it went down hill from there
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I know what you mean, that belt was meant for a specific group of wrestlers but because of the hard hitting nature of the matches they went another direction. As for now I don't think it has the same impact as before idk
I very much agree, it hasn't been the same forever and I wonder if it ever will be again
It’s interesting seeing what has happened particularly with the IC title. Gunther has brought a lot of the prestige back to it.
And on the other side of the coin….AEW has so many secondary titles that they’re basically meaningless. It’s more noticeable if someone on AEW isn’t carrying a belt.
I think it's weirder that the IC belt is so good and the US title... is held by logan paul
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I thought they were going to have Theory hold the US belt like Gunther with the IC, to build both the belt and him. That said…I don’t have a problem with them putting it on Paul. He’s a fantastic athlete that with just a little polish, could be a solid worker overall. For a heel, he’s really easy to dislike. And he’s a name. I’m open to seeing what they do with him.
I was a WWF fan but that NWA "Big Gold" belt is the best looking and was probably more prestigious.
I do love the Big Gold Belt... but the Winged Eagle has a slight edge for me
rvd made that tv title he carried it like a world title he added prestige to it like he did to wwe's hardcore title
I think having a part time Universal championship helps make it and the IC belt more important. Here you have the Universal title matches being built up as these huge important matches and then you have the greatest heel in the companies history as the IC champion working his butt off day in and day off while being the greatest champ on the show
I do think Miz has done great work with it... although I wish it was defended more
Dave Knows Wrestling
It my opinion when a title is rarely defended it makes the matches worth more and gets me invested more due to the fact that it's rare
I agree with the Main title, but secondary belts should be the work horse belt.. in the least, if Brock isn't around, the IC belt should be defended as the main event in every PPV
Dave Knows Wrestling
That is a great point of view now that I think of it. Question, what is your favorite belt in wrestling right now?
Ooh tough... maybe the IWGP title
Maybe the WWE secondary champs..should get a champ vs champ match at a PPV..thus affirming they are #1 contenders..and maybe open the U.S. and IC belts for MITB eligibility..so the briefcase holder could cash in on them as well.
Interesting plan
What about the world heavyweight championship in wwe. Was that a secondary belt? Because wwe treats it like is was a secondary title.
Yeah that goes into a gray area with people on if that belt counts as one or not
The funny thing about the United States title in the WWE is that while not treated as prestigious as in WCW. The US title has for the last two decades been the king maker title signaling the next big name more often than the IC title, which since the end of a WCW became the weigh station title for former world champions or mid carders who clearly will never hold higher gold. There is a reason why one of the most significant memories of that title since the turn of the century is Santino’s runs with it.
Interesting take on the title. You may have given me an idea
Dave Knows Wrestling looking forward to it Dave.
Hmmm...if there was a mid title for the women' I would make it the WWE Women's European championship. I think that would make a good mid card title in the women's division' perhaps make it an exclusive title on both the Smackdown brand and the NXTUK brand.
It only makes sense to defended it on that brand from time to time as well too!
I think there should be a women's i.c. & u.s titles. As well as a Women's World Heavyweight title
The intercontinental title has been so important, to me it should be treated as a top tier title.
It was a very important title
The man makes the belt look at Eddie Guerrero's us title run
The Champ makes the Championship for sure
It would be helpful if they implicitly book the mid card title to have purpose, like in the past whereby IC title is given to a young guy whom they wanna push to test the water
Yes, purpose is a great way to put it
Mid-Card titles can be used to propel someone to main event status just look at John Cena, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels and Dean Ambrose
Bret hart said all titles are a type of main event in their own right.
I like when they give the midcard belts to future stars Goldberg, Rock, HHH, Stonecold, Bret Hart, Cena and Omega.
Most people do, I as well
@@DaveKnowsWrestling u have great content. Better than what culture.
Midcard belts are needed to make the world title more valuable.
I think that is another great point
I would love to see a Raw and Smackdown TV titles as 3rd tier championship making them being defended every week the endless amount of scenarios
That might be nice if done well
But WWE can do that with their Midcard belts.... I wouldn't mind a TV title but I just want 1 title that can be defended accross all three brands.
The Missouri heavyweight championship was always in the past the last step a wrestler took on their way to the NWA world tittle . When JCP was pretty much left being the only real NWA territory left . They used their own top and second teir titles whom they wanted to see draw ability for the world title .
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Great video Dave. I always liked my midcard titles. When I was a kid fantasizing about making it to WWF I always wanted to win the Intercontinental Championship. That was the belt I wanted most, not the World Championship. Even in the backyard promotion I ran I gave myself a run with the midcard belt haha.
As you know I like to talk a lot so I'll get into more detail. I think it depends a lot on roster size. Theoretically I think each "Division" should have at least 8 viable contenders for the title. So let's say your roster size is 20 or less then I think you don't need a midcard title, since you can have 8-10 guys vi for the main title and 8-10 guys vi for the tag title. But if you have a 25+ man roster I think you could safely book a midcard title without having too many overlapping programs. With this you could have 8 guys vying for the main belt, 8 guys for the midcard belt, and the rest vying for the tag belt. And for very large rosters 42-45+ then a tertiary title could be added in the mix, maybe something with special stipulations (TV, Hardcore, Cruiserweight, etc.)
Although I love NJPW I personally think they have too many titles. They have a decent sized roster but there are too many overlapping programs imo. The World and IC could be combined, and the Openweight could be for midcard heavyweights and midcard jr. heavyweights. The 6 Man Tag or Jr. Hvy Tag belts could be done away with also.
This is all my opinion anyway, I think the midcard belts help to elevate talent and create more excitement for a match as the guys are fighting for something. I think every championship should be made to look important, no matter how "low" it is but I also don't think everyone and their dog should get a run with one either.
Dude I am totally with you. I always wanted the IC Belt more too and gave myself the IC belt in my backyard fed as well. Although I did give myself the world too. Plus, I also have said the same about having clear cut divisions. I would like 10 to a division myself. And yes, I agree NJPW is getting a bit out of hand with the titles
You forgot about the NWA/WCW TV Title, which The Four Horseman, mainly Arn Anderson elevated. As you said in the mid-eighties it was a title, that was defended often were fans unable, to see live events or watch pay-per-views. Plus, the matches were top-notch, because Anderson rarely put-on a bad match.
I mentioned it.. as a third tier title
How about unifying the US and IC Titles in WWE?
They would still need to book the one title well... which is something that WWE clearly doesn't seem to care about doing
Stoned af making tomato sandwich sliders binge watching dave knows wrestling
Thnak you so much, hope you enjoyed it
there is a wrestler right now in NXT that would agree with you fully, Carmello the NXT North American champ; he calls the title the A title and refuses to mention any other titles.
Seth Rollins' recent IC run was a good way to book a title during the period where you had an absentee world champion.
It was okay. I would have liked more though. I feel like without the Universal title, the Raw main event on every PPV should be the IC belt. And I would have loved an open challenge that actually happened every single week.
@@DaveKnowsWrestling that would be a good way to give some deserving guys some decent TV time. Something Raw definitely needs to do