That right. The point of the video was to show that there is no difference once TH-cam converts 8 bit and 10 bit to 8 bit anyway for SDR. Cheers, Dave.
Just came across your test while doing research on recording formats. Very interesting that there is a VERY slight very sort of noticeable difference on the quality of the footage (Watched on a iPhone 12 Pro Max). You couldn’t tell the quality difference if the videos were not next to each other though, very good experiment!. I have a question though, what was the file size difference between both recording and did you notice an improvement on the way the files behaved while editing?. At this point, I’m really leaning towards keeping ProRes, but H.265 on the Ninja V makes it pretty compelling to pay the $100 upgrade.
Hi Omar. I can’t remember the files sizes but the ProRes was about 16x bigger than the H.264. Depending on what you are editing on the H.264 will be quite sluggish in the timeline and the ProRes will be very smooth. This is the difference between inter-frame and intra-frame encoding. The NLE is used for this test was Edius and it did struggle with the H.264. I’ve now moved to the M1 Max MacBook and Resolve. The Mac has dedicated hardware for H.264, H.265 and ProRes, so the H.264/5 files edit very smoothly, it almost feels like ProRes when editing H.264/5 files on the M1 Max. Check the description to this video there’s more info and a link to another video that explains this one. What are you recording? What computer are you using? What editing software are you using? H.265 is going to be very tricky on many systems. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry thanks for the reply, very insightful!. I will be editing action footage (drone footage for work) and Warzone footage for TH-cam pretty soon on a MacBook Pro M1 Pro. I will be recording at 4k60 on the Ninja V mostly, but I’m wondering if it really makes sense to record in ProRes if the MacBook already has the H.265 decoders like you mentioned. I imagine H.265 files would be many times smaller than the equivalent ProRes 422 files and the smoothness while editing would be the same on the M1 Pro?. I appreciate the information!.
Hi Omar. Here’s some stuff that may be useful about H.265 on the M1 Max. I’m not sure but I believe the M1 Max may have twice the performance as the M1 Pro with the ProRes and H.265 processors that it has on the SoC. You may want to double check that, because although the Max is more expense than the Pro, the difference will be worth for the two encoder engines. I’m using H.265 at 4K 60FPS from an Elgato 4K60 S+ and it edits amazingly well. It’s like you are editing ProRes, it’s super smooth when scrolling in the timeline and plays perfectly. The encode speeds to H.265 are insane. If you’re just editing and using a tittle and some cross-dissolves, no FX or colour correction, the timeline at 4K 60FPS exports faster than real-time. Depending on the FX and colouring you may be using the export will be slower but this is because the timeline needs processing not the output. Check my other videos I’ve got one specifically about exporting H.265 and that also tests 8K. I’ve switched from Windows and Edius and am currently learning Resolve and FCP on the Mac. Both utilise the ProRes and H.265 engines on the M1 Max/Pro. So far, I’ve spent more time with Resolve and it’s great, although FCP is also awesome on the M1 Max/Pro. I have the Studio version of Resolve as it does some stuff that the free one doesn’t. I’ve had a Ninja 5 but didn’t have the H.265 option, so don’t know what that’s like. I sent mine back because at the time it was not compatible with HDR demo the Xbox Series X, I believe that’s now changed. Because I don’t need a field recorder, I now use a Blackmagic Design Ultrastudio 4K Mini, this allows me to record up to ProRes 4444 XQ if I need it. Just check with the the specs on your Ninja but I believe that while the H.265 is 10 bit it only uses 4:2:0 for the chroma-subsampling. Using ProRes 422 HQ on the Ninja will give you 4:2:2 chroma/colour. The Ninja does not do ProRes 4444 from what I remember. For straight editing you are never going to really see any difference between H.265 4:2:0 and ProRes 4:2:2 form the Ninja as long as the bitrates are high on the H.265 recordings. Where you may see some difference between the two is if you start heavily grading, or when exporting to H.265. These differences will be very small and probably not noticeable in most situations but they will be there. For me personally, I only ever keep my final video master from any project and never keep all the original camera or capture files. Because of that, drive space is less of an issues, so I always record as high as possible, ProRes 4444 XQ even though I don’t need 4444 and when I’m done I delete all the source material once my master video files are generated. I always use high bitrates for my final H.265 exports for TH-cam and for my archive. I’m always working with a minimum of 4K UHD 25FPS. My UHD 25FPS H.265 outputs are always at least 100Mb/s and my UHD 60FPS game stuff is exported at 200Mb/s. Sometimes I go higher if there’s a lot of very fast motion, fine line detail or a lot of colour detail in the source files and captures. Keep an eye on my channel. While I do a lot of different things about technology and product reviews I’ll be doing some more in-depth encoding tests soon. Here’s something you may find interesting, this is a video that’s part of a three part video that I’ll be doing soon. This is game footage captured at ProPro 4444 XQ, edited, and then I make a H.265 200Mb/s encode of the edit. I then bring the H.265 version back into the edit and split screen it against the original 4444 edit, then export it again as ProRes 444 XQ and upload that to TH-cam. The upload file was about 120GB, which is massive. While it’s totally unnecessary to upload at this quality, it’s done as an absolute test for my own curiosity. The video is also in HDR. If you can playback on HDR on a large monitor or TV, try it out in 4K, it’s amazing looking. You may see some very slight differences with the H.265 side of the solid, detail may break up a little bit, but this is only in extremely fast action. I’ll also do an upload of this exact same project in H.265 200Mb/s when I do the final 3 part video. th-cam.com/video/3_ewkvgBFG8/w-d-xo.html If you have any specific questions I’ll try and answer them when I get time but keep an eye on my channel for these encode/codec test videos and check through my old ones, there’ll also be stuff going up on my game test channel. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry wow!!! Such a well thought out response, definitely looking forward to watching some of your encoding tests. I’ll keep an eye on the content for sure and I’ll watch the other videos. Thanks for the help again!.
Depends on what looks best to you. I can buy the absolute cheapest "Spectre" brand junk monitor that's 1440p 10-bit HDR and turn around and run a Dell or Asus or Gigabyte monitor (same size and 1440p resolution) using HDR via 8-bit with dithering. The more expensive monitors (Dell, Asus, Gigabyte) will look better. There is no one size fits all answer to "which of these monitors look best?" questions.
Definitely more collor depth on the right side and also slightly sharper. Also the glare in the water looks less. Like it is a sort of polarized, again creating more depth. Also in the darker scenes a noticeable difference in the vibrance of the collors. Watched this on a I phone Xr with Liquid Retina screen.
@@DavidHarry your welcome, I’m fairly new to this subject, but my interest came from ordering a new gaming monitor with also a 10-bit option. It should arrive tomorrow 🤞🏼 It has a lot of more features than my current/dated monitor. It could have been the power of suggestion but i could see a notable difference in your video. Do you have any suggestions about which cable i should use? HDMI 2.0 or Display 1.4? I presume the last one but am not very sure. Kind regards.
Hi Justin. Technically, DisplayPort 1.4 is better than HDMI 2. DP 1.4 has higher bandwidth capabilities, which means that it can support higher resolutions, frame rates and colour depth compared to HDMI 2.0. However, this all depends on what you are using to generate your graphics and what you are viewing them on. For instance. In most 4K setups, there will be no difference between DP 1.4 and HDMI 2.0, as both have enough bandwidth and support for the various audio and video protocols that are likely to be used in most 4K scenarios. However, when it comes to HDR and higher colour depth, DP 1.4 will have certain advantages. By comparison, HDMI 2.1 has the advantage over DP 1.4 because it supports higher bandwidths but these are more likely to be an advantage when moving up to 8K and high frame rates and high colour depths. For most scenarios using a 4K, HDMI 2.0 is going to be fine and will be more compatible with more devices compared to any of the standards on DisplayPort. For instance. If you want to use a large screen TV or if you want to do external video capturing, most TVs and capture devices do not support DisplayPort of any version, so this is where HDMI of any standard is going to be an advantage. In situations where your source and destination, as in, computer and monitor, are capable of fully supporting DisplayPort 1.4. Then I would stick to DisplayPort as this will cover you technically for anything you’re doing and you won’t be second guessing anything such as standards etc. Hopefully that was helpful and not just adding more confusion, as these things can be quite confusing until you get used to them. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry thank you very much. Very helpful and much appreciated 🤝 I’m not even going 4K on this monitor but 3440x1440 widescreen with HDR capabilities and also a possibility to boost the monitor to 180hz, although i just read that the 10 bit option will probably not work on this frequency. I will just stick to my usual 144Hz frame rate. My graphics card should not be any issue in itself. (RTX 3090) Also it is an IPS monitor so i don’t have extreme expectations about de HDR features. I rather hope that the 10-bit option will bring some more image/video quality. Again thank you very much for sharing this knowledge 👍 At the end of this week i will let you know if i also see the differences and will try different settings. Kind regards
Hi Justin. I’d recommend you just use DisplayPort and everything should auto scenes and setup automatically after you’ve selected your resolution and refresh/frame rate. Although I’m predominately a console and mobile device player, I use controller because I’m useless with keyboard and mouse :) and use Mac PCs for my video and music stuff, I also build Windows PCs. I have a basic gaming Windows PC with a 3060 Ti that I use for comparisons and tests and use that via DisplayPort to a few different monitors and everything just sets itself up fine. If you do game capture and use an external recorder, just switch to HDMI for that and don’t worry about the differences when it’s just for captures. Nearly all game captures and streaming are viewed back the viewer in 8 bit 4:2:0 and usually at a lower resolution than what you’d record at, which is why I wouldn’t worry about the specifications of the capture and using HDMI to do it. Although I really enjoy making videos about gaming stuff and how to capture and edit with different devices, these videos take quite some time to make and don’t get many views. So it’s difficult to justify the time to make them when I can be making quicker videos that I make money from. However, after I’ve caught up with a load of product review videos that I’m way behind on, I’ll try and do more videos like this one. Plus, OBS is now supporting Mac ARM so I’ll probably do a bunch of OBS videos in the future which will be useful for both Mac and Windows users. BTW, I never usually respond in such detail or as quickly as I have with your comment. In fact, I usually don’t respond to many comments as I don’t usually have much time. The reason for this response is because you took the time with a good comment and I’m having a lazy afternoon in bed with my iPad because I was up all night editing TH-cam videos and didn’t get to bed until a really stupid hour this morning :) Anyway, I hope you have loads of fun with your new monitor and gaming setup 👍 Take care. Cheers, Dave.
If Elgato 4K60 Pro Mk2 can record 10bits content? Official website states "4K60 Pro equips you to capture immaculate 4K60 **HDR10** content", and HDR10 content should support 10bits.
Yes, it does. This video is to prove that point but also to see if it’s worth recording with a better codec with less compression in the first place and also if there’s much difference between recording inter-frame and intra-frame for the source video when TH-cam compresses it all to a low bit rate 8 bit inter-frame anyway. Cheers, Dave.
I don't know much about the numbers but I like the RIGHT SIDE BETTER!
It's not possible on YT for half the video to be 8-bit and the other half 10-bit. The whole video is probably 8bit so we won't see any difference.
That right. The point of the video was to show that there is no difference once TH-cam converts 8 bit and 10 bit to 8 bit anyway for SDR. Cheers, Dave.
Yes. The right one looks much sharper
I got a new monitor with 12 bit is good or bad ?
What monitor has 12 bit? I think the price shout be at least 5k$
The right side looked more detailed. cheers!
Is the 10 bit more sharper because its 10 bit or because its 422?
it's because it's ProRes vs h264.
Just came across your test while doing research on recording formats. Very interesting that there is a VERY slight very sort of noticeable difference on the quality of the footage (Watched on a iPhone 12 Pro Max). You couldn’t tell the quality difference if the videos were not next to each other though, very good experiment!.
I have a question though, what was the file size difference between both recording and did you notice an improvement on the way the files behaved while editing?.
At this point, I’m really leaning towards keeping ProRes, but H.265 on the Ninja V makes it pretty compelling to pay the $100 upgrade.
Hi Omar. I can’t remember the files sizes but the ProRes was about 16x bigger than the H.264. Depending on what you are editing on the H.264 will be quite sluggish in the timeline and the ProRes will be very smooth. This is the difference between inter-frame and intra-frame encoding. The NLE is used for this test was Edius and it did struggle with the H.264. I’ve now moved to the M1 Max MacBook and Resolve. The Mac has dedicated hardware for H.264, H.265 and ProRes, so the H.264/5 files edit very smoothly, it almost feels like ProRes when editing H.264/5 files on the M1 Max. Check the description to this video there’s more info and a link to another video that explains this one. What are you recording? What computer are you using? What editing software are you using? H.265 is going to be very tricky on many systems. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry thanks for the reply, very insightful!. I will be editing action footage (drone footage for work) and Warzone footage for TH-cam pretty soon on a MacBook Pro M1 Pro. I will be recording at 4k60 on the Ninja V mostly, but I’m wondering if it really makes sense to record in ProRes if the MacBook already has the H.265 decoders like you mentioned.
I imagine H.265 files would be many times smaller than the equivalent ProRes 422 files and the smoothness while editing would be the same on the M1 Pro?.
I appreciate the information!.
Hi Omar. Here’s some stuff that may be useful about H.265 on the M1 Max.
I’m not sure but I believe the M1 Max may have twice the performance as the M1 Pro with the ProRes and H.265 processors that it has on the SoC. You may want to double check that, because although the Max is more expense than the Pro, the difference will be worth for the two encoder engines.
I’m using H.265 at 4K 60FPS from an Elgato 4K60 S+ and it edits amazingly well. It’s like you are editing ProRes, it’s super smooth when scrolling in the timeline and plays perfectly. The encode speeds to H.265 are insane. If you’re just editing and using a tittle and some cross-dissolves, no FX or colour correction, the timeline at 4K 60FPS exports faster than real-time. Depending on the FX and colouring you may be using the export will be slower but this is because the timeline needs processing not the output. Check my other videos I’ve got one specifically about exporting H.265 and that also tests 8K.
I’ve switched from Windows and Edius and am currently learning Resolve and FCP on the Mac. Both utilise the ProRes and H.265 engines on the M1 Max/Pro. So far, I’ve spent more time with Resolve and it’s great, although FCP is also awesome on the M1 Max/Pro. I have the Studio version of Resolve as it does some stuff that the free one doesn’t.
I’ve had a Ninja 5 but didn’t have the H.265 option, so don’t know what that’s like. I sent mine back because at the time it was not compatible with HDR demo the Xbox Series X, I believe that’s now changed. Because I don’t need a field recorder, I now use a Blackmagic Design Ultrastudio 4K Mini, this allows me to record up to ProRes 4444 XQ if I need it.
Just check with the the specs on your Ninja but I believe that while the H.265 is 10 bit it only uses 4:2:0 for the chroma-subsampling. Using ProRes 422 HQ on the Ninja will give you 4:2:2 chroma/colour. The Ninja does not do ProRes 4444 from what I remember. For straight editing you are never going to really see any difference between H.265 4:2:0 and ProRes 4:2:2 form the Ninja as long as the bitrates are high on the H.265 recordings.
Where you may see some difference between the two is if you start heavily grading, or when exporting to H.265. These differences will be very small and probably not noticeable in most situations but they will be there. For me personally, I only ever keep my final video master from any project and never keep all the original camera or capture files. Because of that, drive space is less of an issues, so I always record as high as possible, ProRes 4444 XQ even though I don’t need 4444 and when I’m done I delete all the source material once my master video files are generated.
I always use high bitrates for my final H.265 exports for TH-cam and for my archive. I’m always working with a minimum of 4K UHD 25FPS. My UHD 25FPS H.265 outputs are always at least 100Mb/s and my UHD 60FPS game stuff is exported at 200Mb/s. Sometimes I go higher if there’s a lot of very fast motion, fine line detail or a lot of colour detail in the source files and captures.
Keep an eye on my channel. While I do a lot of different things about technology and product reviews I’ll be doing some more in-depth encoding tests soon.
Here’s something you may find interesting, this is a video that’s part of a three part video that I’ll be doing soon. This is game footage captured at ProPro 4444 XQ, edited, and then I make a H.265 200Mb/s encode of the edit. I then bring the H.265 version back into the edit and split screen it against the original 4444 edit, then export it again as ProRes 444 XQ and upload that to TH-cam.
The upload file was about 120GB, which is massive. While it’s totally unnecessary to upload at this quality, it’s done as an absolute test for my own curiosity. The video is also in HDR. If you can playback on HDR on a large monitor or TV, try it out in 4K, it’s amazing looking. You may see some very slight differences with the H.265 side of the solid, detail may break up a little bit, but this is only in extremely fast action. I’ll also do an upload of this exact same project in H.265 200Mb/s when I do the final 3 part video.
th-cam.com/video/3_ewkvgBFG8/w-d-xo.html
If you have any specific questions I’ll try and answer them when I get time but keep an eye on my channel for these encode/codec test videos and check through my old ones, there’ll also be stuff going up on my game test channel.
Cheers,
Dave.
@@DavidHarry wow!!! Such a well thought out response, definitely looking forward to watching some of your encoding tests.
I’ll keep an eye on the content for sure and I’ll watch the other videos. Thanks for the help again!.
At 02:00 you can see the sky on the left side is more white washed out, 03:55 right side more color on the floor.
i got a monitor one has 10 bit and one 8 bit the 8 bit has higher brightness (350 cd/m2) and the 10 bit has lower (250 cd/m2) which is better u think?
Depends on what looks best to you.
I can buy the absolute cheapest "Spectre" brand junk monitor that's 1440p 10-bit HDR and turn around and run a Dell or Asus or Gigabyte monitor (same size and 1440p resolution) using HDR via 8-bit with dithering.
The more expensive monitors (Dell, Asus, Gigabyte) will look better. There is no one size fits all answer to "which of these monitors look best?" questions.
Definitely more collor depth on the right side and also slightly sharper. Also the glare in the water looks less. Like it is a sort of polarized, again creating more depth. Also in the darker scenes a noticeable difference in the vibrance of the collors. Watched this on a I phone Xr with Liquid Retina screen.
Hi Justin. Thank you for your very detailed response, I really appreciate it 👍 Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry your welcome, I’m fairly new to this subject, but my interest came from ordering a new gaming monitor with also a 10-bit option. It should arrive tomorrow 🤞🏼
It has a lot of more features than my current/dated monitor. It could have been the power of suggestion but i could see a notable difference in your video. Do you have any suggestions about which cable i should use? HDMI 2.0 or Display 1.4? I presume the last one but am not very sure. Kind regards.
Hi Justin. Technically, DisplayPort 1.4 is better than HDMI 2. DP 1.4 has higher bandwidth capabilities, which means that it can support higher resolutions, frame rates and colour depth compared to HDMI 2.0. However, this all depends on what you are using to generate your graphics and what you are viewing them on. For instance. In most 4K setups, there will be no difference between DP 1.4 and HDMI 2.0, as both have enough bandwidth and support for the various audio and video protocols that are likely to be used in most 4K scenarios. However, when it comes to HDR and higher colour depth, DP 1.4 will have certain advantages. By comparison, HDMI 2.1 has the advantage over DP 1.4 because it supports higher bandwidths but these are more likely to be an advantage when moving up to 8K and high frame rates and high colour depths. For most scenarios using a 4K, HDMI 2.0 is going to be fine and will be more compatible with more devices compared to any of the standards on DisplayPort. For instance. If you want to use a large screen TV or if you want to do external video capturing, most TVs and capture devices do not support DisplayPort of any version, so this is where HDMI of any standard is going to be an advantage. In situations where your source and destination, as in, computer and monitor, are capable of fully supporting DisplayPort 1.4. Then I would stick to DisplayPort as this will cover you technically for anything you’re doing and you won’t be second guessing anything such as standards etc. Hopefully that was helpful and not just adding more confusion, as these things can be quite confusing until you get used to them. Cheers, Dave.
@@DavidHarry thank you very much. Very helpful and much appreciated 🤝 I’m not even going 4K on this monitor but 3440x1440 widescreen with HDR capabilities and also a possibility to boost the monitor to 180hz, although i just read that the 10 bit option will probably not work on this frequency. I will just stick to my usual 144Hz frame rate. My graphics card should not be any issue in itself. (RTX 3090) Also it is an IPS monitor so i don’t have extreme expectations about de HDR features. I rather hope that the 10-bit option will bring some more image/video quality. Again thank you very much for sharing this knowledge 👍 At the end of this week i will let you know if i also see the differences and will try different settings. Kind regards
Hi Justin. I’d recommend you just use DisplayPort and everything should auto scenes and setup automatically after you’ve selected your resolution and refresh/frame rate. Although I’m predominately a console and mobile device player, I use controller because I’m useless with keyboard and mouse :) and use Mac PCs for my video and music stuff, I also build Windows PCs. I have a basic gaming Windows PC with a 3060 Ti that I use for comparisons and tests and use that via DisplayPort to a few different monitors and everything just sets itself up fine. If you do game capture and use an external recorder, just switch to HDMI for that and don’t worry about the differences when it’s just for captures. Nearly all game captures and streaming are viewed back the viewer in 8 bit 4:2:0 and usually at a lower resolution than what you’d record at, which is why I wouldn’t worry about the specifications of the capture and using HDMI to do it. Although I really enjoy making videos about gaming stuff and how to capture and edit with different devices, these videos take quite some time to make and don’t get many views. So it’s difficult to justify the time to make them when I can be making quicker videos that I make money from. However, after I’ve caught up with a load of product review videos that I’m way behind on, I’ll try and do more videos like this one. Plus, OBS is now supporting Mac ARM so I’ll probably do a bunch of OBS videos in the future which will be useful for both Mac and Windows users. BTW, I never usually respond in such detail or as quickly as I have with your comment. In fact, I usually don’t respond to many comments as I don’t usually have much time. The reason for this response is because you took the time with a good comment and I’m having a lazy afternoon in bed with my iPad because I was up all night editing TH-cam videos and didn’t get to bed until a really stupid hour this morning :) Anyway, I hope you have loads of fun with your new monitor and gaming setup 👍 Take care. Cheers, Dave.
Does 10-Bit makes the GPU run hotter?
No.
If Elgato 4K60 Pro Mk2 can record 10bits content?
Official website states "4K60 Pro equips you to capture immaculate 4K60 **HDR10** content", and HDR10 content should support 10bits.
It only records 8 bit when in SDR rec.709
There are no big difference at colors its ok to buy 8bit gaming monitor
My Ipad tells me the right side is better
youtube degrade this to 8 bit anyway
Yes, it does. This video is to prove that point but also to see if it’s worth recording with a better codec with less compression in the first place and also if there’s much difference between recording inter-frame and intra-frame for the source video when TH-cam compresses it all to a low bit rate 8 bit inter-frame anyway. Cheers, Dave.
No difference at all.
That's correct 👍
8bit = 16.5 million colors 10bit = 1 Billion colors
And?
Oj