How to Thin Water Borne Paint for Spraying, Measuring Viscosity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- In my previous video, “Mixing Paint & Filling a Spray Gun, Small Shop Spray Painting Part V” I simply guessed when I thought I had it thin enough. View at: goo.gl/5Rc5x1 In this video, I show you how to measure the viscosity of paint, using a #4 Ford Cup. This along with some 2.0mm gravity feed guns is available on my Amazon store at www.budmanproductions.com or directly at astore.amazon.c... I selected the guns simply by reading the star ratings and honed in on the ones that people liked the best within the price range of not over $50.00.
Ron, Your advice on using a Ford Cup to measure viscosity and how to thin latex paint was exactly what I needed. Thank You! It's great to get advice from someone that knows what they are doing. You helped make it a great day.
One of the best, informative, to the point videos I have seen. Thanks!
Excellent video. Great explanations. No mumbling and wasted time.
Ron, I am so glad that you put this up. I come from automotive too, took some training but never painted for $. It makes me have to be precise. It's just how I am.
So to bring this together. You recommend 20 to 30 seconds to empty a Ford #4 cup.
And adding 25+ % you got around 45 seconds.
Latex paints can be different between types. I think I will go 40% and check. If it's too thin I can add paint to fatten it up. And if it's still too thin, well 5% at a time.
Also, I have been taught and found it true that to really get a good mixture on latex paints it is best to pour the paint back and forth between two containers. I have a drill driven stirring tool too. I'd think that if I keep the tool down in the paint that it won't aerate.
BTW I have a DeVilbiss FLG4 (Finish Line) which is considered low level pro or good level DIY. It came in a kit with a few tips, biggest is 1.8, but I bought the next available which is a 2.2.
I agree with you on the gun mounted oil water separator. I have a cheap separator regulator on my wall from Harbor Freight and a line mounted one just before my gun regulator. Was able to do a fender on the wife's car one Sunday morning when it was 70 degrees. I waited for the weather for that!
I'll use your info and want to remind people to filter any paint before it goes in your gun.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This “recipe” was PERFECT. You saved me so much time. I used a paint Valspar Latex plus Primer, 500 ml + 125 ml of water. Bang on
Lovely video for painters.
THANK YOU SO MUCH ❤️👍
Fantastic video. This is going to help me with my first ever experience of spray painting. I got Vannect 700W spray gun today.
I have that one from Amazon and have yet to find a video on it.
Thanks. very helpful. I'm spraying ceilings and wondered about thinning latex.
Thank you so much for this video. You’re sweet voice along with your mix of scientific and DIY knowledge made me feel like I was watching my dad. He was always the one I went to with questions. I am so grateful you were there to give me the answers today when he no long can.
3:1 mixing ratio through a 1.4mm tip.... Youre welcome
I found the 15% water ratio works best for latex based paints using a 1.8 to 2.0 nozzle.
Great video, excellent voice over.
I have no idea why im watching this or why its so interesting
Wonderful lesson.Thank you very much!Julian
Aw, YOU make it a great day!
I am spraying trailers, I have a daughter and am a single dad working hard to become a trailer manufacture. I don't have anything huge yet, but really needing help on painting metal trailers and what set ups to use. Please help!
I've been painting for many years I found out that all materials need different amounts of thinning I have no formula start thinning until you find the right vescosity
Hello Ron Budman,
Foor a school project we have to spray/atomize honey, we can't give the honey a temperature a higher temperature higher than about 40 degrees Celsius. Do you maybe have an idea how to solve this, we can't really change the honey itself. We have to change the nozzle. Thanks in advance.
Excellent approach by measuring the viscosity. One thing I've found that makes things easier is to use a measuring cup that provides three ratio thinning gauges. The reason for the three ratio is that I usually add not only water, but Floetrol to the latex. For instance, most of the time when spraying latex paint with my HVLP turbine-based system (it's a Fuji 5-stage turbine) is to use the 5-1-1 gauge: 5 parts latex; 1 part water and 1 part Floetrol. Sorry for not providing the viscosity reading from my Ford cup, but if memory serves me, it was around the 25 second range.
Again, great video.
Thank you for this comment! It was very helpful to me.
Great video!
Iam mixing 3 liter 1k base coat and 1 liter 2k paint thiner and ready to go to paint the car after priming 😁 with hvlp paint gun after that I'll see the clearcoat which is better compressor or homeright electric how it's going but iam doing this with homeright finish max, previously iam doing this with air compressor and just thin 1:1 but I think in this case for this ratio 3 to 1 ill need 1 coat only 😅😅😅 even primer 1k to 2k thinner it should be 1:1 with hvlp gun, but I don't know how much I'll mix to get 40 viscosity or 50 but looking to change electric sometimes iam using this sometimes but if electrical went nice I'll stay with it cause easy to handle and to work with
Thank you so much! I am about to spraypaint for the first time in my life. I am excited.
Be well.
Sincerely,
Alicia from Sweden
Great video! Thank you for the advise. I have painted most of my life used airless, but air sprayers are a very different deal. I came across this job that requires air sprayer and just wasn’t sure about percentage wise thinning and you came with the perfect answer. Thank you sir!
For me: Krylon color maxx 250ml...water: 150ml basically a 60% ratio.....with a 1.4 tip. Beautiful spray, Layed smooth. 90 psi at the compressor. Single red HF desicant at the gun. Originally, I tried 70%, but the piece got a little splotchy. It all depends on the viscosity of the paint. I started at 50%, then moved to 60%.
"acrylic" enamel isn't "flammable" , it's water based .... ALKYD enamel is solvent based
I've been spraying my motorcycle tank with water-based paint...at least trying to. After experimenting with thinning (distilled water), I got it thin enough to try it out. My first coat of high gloss, cream white went on smooth and even in some areas, but less so in others. I was also surprised that in no time the paint would dry in the nozzle till only air would spray out.
Conclusions and observations;
1.) 2 mm nozzle sounds about right for water-based paints and I think it's because of the way it actually dries in the nozzle, blocking flow.
2) air pressure should be set a low as possible while still maintaining flow and spread. I'm playing around with 25-30 psi on vertical test pieces...may try 20 psi.
3) when everything is right, ie., viscosity, nozzle size, air pressure, and ambient temperature, the w-b paint is great. The fast drying and non-toxic qualities make it enjoyable to work with. However, get one of the above parameters wrong and you'll be sanding back and respraying the same piece again and again.
Can you thin paint that the manufacturer suggest not to thin? I have Valspar's Solid Stain and it is water based. I does say not to thin but I want to spray it and it will no doubt be too thick for such an application.
People should just keep in mind that many domestic waterbased products are not meant to be thinned beyond about 10-15 percent. Check the can! Good vid!
Very helpful. I've been sprayiong with wagner airless plus and found 30 to 40secs to give an excellent mix. Thats using Armstead Contract emulsion paint on walls and ceiling. About 2l of water added to 5 litres of paint. Need to stir vigouously for at least 5 mins to get homogeneity.
Could you test how much the viscosity changes if you heat up the paint?
Hey Ron, I have polyurethane clear varnish that says “not for spraying” is this just a manufacturing gimmick?
I’d imagine it could be thinned and sprayed.
Can be sprayed… says that because it’s such high voc and very toxic. Just protect yourself
Which paint wood you recommend when painted steel.
Ford cup measurement is when it starts to drip NOT when cup is completely empty
Great video, so if i cant find the viscosity rating do i shoot for 35seconds on the ford cup to gauge my spray gun? Performance Tool m576db . what are the benefits of syphon vs gravity?
I like the vid - well explained Ron. I wonder one thing: wouldn't spraying without any protection for the overspray lead to painting behind the objects that you're doing? Also, if I plan to do some base and crown moulding in the house, how much masking paper should I put to protect around - is 12 inch in each direction enough?
And all you used was water? I don't need to get paint thinner?
@@ddavis9068 Floetrol and DSITILLED WATER - just to be sure, no tap water, chemical can screw things up. Take 300ml (10 oz) of paint and add 0.5 oz water and 0.5 oz floetrol. Stir. Measure with Ford cup. When I got 70-80 seconds I was good to go. I got a book on it from this American known finisher if you want it. For BM Ben paint I used about 10 oz with 2 oz water and 2 oz floetrol fyi - there is no rule. If the paint is dryer (water evaporated) you'll need more water and floetrol. Floetrol conditions the mixture to keep things together. The nozzle for 70-80 seconds was 2.5mm btw.
I am now 1 year plus later and my painted surfaces are still good; no problem.
Feel free to ask me if you got more questions D. Cheers.
Thanks Ron also for using metric. not sure why anyone would use imperial but i'm still learning at 63
Great vids, Tks yo to you for helping 👌🏻, just subscribed 👏🏻
Thanks mate! Great help!
Whats the smallest compressor I can use for this gun?
for me, I would always try to spray on a horizontal surface, if at all possible. also, I have given up on gravity feed hvlp and am much happier with a pressure-pot based sprayer (about $60 at harbor freight). You can use less thinning since the paint is pushed through the gun but also, not having the cup on the gun allows for so much better spraying experience (tight corners, upside down, and simply rotate the gun to rotate the fan).
Thanks for the info
Don't use gravity feed for water based paints because it drains to slow out of the gun and inconsistently to mix properly with the speed of the air when it's mixing. Do use a siphon feed as it forces the paint out of the cup much better way to spray thick water based coatings. If you can find a binks number 7 gun that's money for thick coatings including automotive primer. Siphon feed trumps gravity feed all day everyday for anything.
I have a HVLP spray gun.
Tried spraying enamel based primer & paint on wood furniture. But always get orange peel finish.
I used MTO- mineral turpentine oil for thinning.
Kindly suggest how to avoid the orange peel finish and get a smooth and shiny finish
great video thanks , can I spray this mix with a 1.4mmm air nozzle, needle and fluid cap configuration?
Yes
hello, i dont comment very often but thumbs up! great vid. Thank you so much!.
highlights=great content, real life stuff + some special effects but no obnoxious music.
+4x4 Trail Your comment on music is interesting. I used to think it cool to use; now however, I can't stand it. If you look at some of my older videos I always used it. Now I consider it voice over racket.
I would like to invite you to be a consultant for our household HVLP spray gun project. If you are interested, please contact me.
Such a cool old guy. Hope all is well Ron. Really appreciate your videos.
Thanks, Ronnie
Hey, He's not old...He's youth challenged...
I do have some software that will take the wrinkles out . . . maybe I should start using it, wha-do-ya-think?
Great informative video thank you
Can you thin water based Spar Urethane enough for air brushing? If so, how?
I use paint zoom to paint my motorcycle Fairings. How much the viscosity ???
I checked with the technical of Tickerilla paint manufacturer and they said that thinning beyond 10% will nor affect the integrity of their water based paint.
So a 40 second drop is a good place to start? And are sprayers getting better?
Mr. Ron Thanks for sharing the video...Best regards from patagonia chile
can you explain what you use and how do you use it to clean the gun after your done. Also I want to cover the latex with a water borne polyurethane. How do you thin it what size tip and what do you use to clean up after.
+Bob Greene Try to find a gun with a 2mm nozzle set. Check out this video on gun cleaning. th-cam.com/video/XobA4GU3Xqc/w-d-xo.html
Where can I get bigger fluid nozzle and spray tips like 1.8-2.5mm at?
Hello Ron. I have a couple of custom cabinets that I've built to paint. I have been looking at purchasing on of the hvlp turbine spray systems that house painters use. But, I have an old binks model 7 gun and also a binks pressure pot with a binks 2001 gun. I picked up the pressure pot setup for an inexpensive price but have yet to actually use it. I just have this feeling that I should be able to use what I already have to achieve good results. Perhaps I should get an HVLP gun to run off of my standard air compressor. I will be spraying a sandable acrylic primer and acrylic enamel topcoat. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
I used to spray trucks using a two-quart pressure pot setup. This will certainly work, with the one exception that it will take more pressure to atomize the paint than an HVLP gun. You mentioning a Binks 7 brings back memories. With that said, if your pressure pot is in good condition, that would be my choice. It will eliminate a lot a weight from the gun and make the gun handling a lot easier. If you are spraying both the inside and outside of the cabinets, I hope you have a hood respirator to cover your entire face. There will be a lot of blowback. Hope this helps, Ron
Thanks so much for your response. Once I found your video and saw that you were spraying using an air compressor I knew you could answer my question. I'll have to see what size needle is in the 2001 gun and give it a go. Also considering just getting an hvlp gun like you are using.Just like to add that we have one thing in common, a full head of grey hair! Thanks again for producing a video with so much good information that will help me on my projects.
ive tried this on cabinets but about 4 doors in to the job it starts spiting really bad
Would you mix water with urethane paint?
I put a 20 oz bottle of water to a gallon of paint...workes perfectly
GREAT EDITING! Nice work, subscribed
Hi i bought a greco hplv 9.5. Glidden grey gripper. My question is, will the #5 tip set spray the primer ?
Eight years after your post has anything changed with new generation spray guns?
Ron, Thanks for the great video. I'm a novice at painting and finishes. I have a HVLP system which I'm "slowly" learning to use. I recently used some thinned Latex enamel to paint some flat horizontal surfaces. Painting horizontal was very forgiving for avoiding runs. You mentioned in your video that if you paint vertical you should paint a "tack coat", let it dry then paint finish coat. Could you expand on that comment just a bit. What does this tack coat do, how thick, when you say let it dry are we talking minutes or hours. Thanks Ron hope you are well.
Hello Ron,
I will be spraying about 400 SqFt of DC315 on Open Cell Spray Foam. It is a fire retarder and its viscosity is 9,000-10,000 at 75°F (a little less than honey). I have a Wagner Airless Sprayer and was wondering if that might do the trick. Otherwise, what sort of Airless Sprayer and tip should I try to rent that can handle that sort of Viscosity? Thank you.
TH-cam search for DC315:
th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=dc315
Proper mixing of DC315:
th-cam.com/video/C54d2oKxcx8/w-d-xo.html
Cheers for the video bud with Johnstone's acrylic Quick Dry Gloss, Brilliant White for 240ml i had to add the same in water to get it to spray with my Apollo Pro-Spray System 1500 HVLP the viscosity from the can was 8mins plus way to thick with the water added got it down too 15-18 secs spot on for my interior wooded doors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯♥
I wish everybody explain things like this gentleman. Cheers!
+1 to that
I do Ron I do have questions. I bought that exact satan possessed gravity feed gun that you were using. I know you video production people have all this fancy blue screen tricks up your sleeve. Maybe my question is for the sound guy. He's the one that screwed up. Using that gun the sound that should have accompanied the video is of spraying for 10 seconds then 2 minutes of waiting for your compressor to fill the tanks again then repeat. 10 seconds spraying, 2 minutes of obnoxious compressor noise. Your video just went ssssssssssssssssss. Just spaying and spraying happy as can be like we all keep a 500 gallon compressor in the garage. Please tell me what I am doing wrong or amit you've editing this video like it was the zapruder film.
Great video & thanks for NOT having loud, stupid, annoying music like many other videos. 👍👍👍
What is the volume of the no 4 cup - Ford or Zahn?? I also saw a table online somewhere detailing the different viscosity times using this cup to dilute paint for gravity fed medium pressure compressed air spray guns, for various types of paint e.g. duco, enamel, water based, varnish etc. I now cannot find it. Do you have something similar?? Thanks.
Sad to say my Dad passed in January of 2021. I just now took over this channel admin after all this time. I wish I could answer these questions for you, but I am not the genius he was on this stuff. - Jason
if you don't want to thin it that much you can use a pressurized cup rather than a gravity feed
Thank you been looking for this information for years like a dummy I never thought to check TH-cam lol 😆
We used a improvised Ford cup at a place I use to work but when I would ask people at paint and big box stores they didn't have a clue what I was talking about!
I didn't really know my self lol
I just knew paint couldn't be to thick or to thin and if doing a large project you want every can constant!!!
I am planning on spraying my cabinets with Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane Enamel. What size tip can I use without thinning the paint? It is a water based hybrid.
Behr for their premium latex say on the label to not thin more than 1/2 pint per gallon of paint. At that dilution I could not meet the 40 second dilution my cheap paint gun requires.
Thank you for time and production of this video..... I am making a pallet wood mini fence that will be portal for my camper so my yorkies can go out and enjoy the sun.... going to look on your channel for additional ideas for making fences that look nice and can detach thanks again
Hi i am using pfs bosch 5000 for the first time for wall painting and ceiling how many seconds should be my paint viscosity
Excellent video just what I needed....Greetings from Ireland
Nice video
Excellent review of the viscosity cup. Keep up the good work.
Great video. Thank you.
Have you ever used automotive paints for cabinets?
No, not that I remember. The cost would make it prohibitive. However, there may come a time when I will want the gloss and durability of an automotive paint on a furniture project.
very informative. Thamk you.
Great video. Thank you :)
Since you no longer sell hvlp guns could you recommend an hvlp air gun that can be used to spray both water (latex) based paints along with lacquer based paints? Thanks.
what about extender vs accelerator additives? when to use and not to use been having major problems with general finishes water based poly....
Great video! I've been waiting to see something like this.
Everyone else seems to be guessing!
2 Questions for you... Where can you get a viscosity cup? and can you thin regular latex paint with water and if so, how does it affect the end result?
You can buy a viscosity cup from Napa Auto Parts stores or any autobody supply house.
+Daniel Shafner Thanks for the tip . . . Ron
Yes, you can thin latex paint with water. You have to be careful, a little water can affect the viscosity in big ways, seeing you up for runs, drips, and sags. Also, the more that you thin out the paint the less hiding power the paint will have. And the more you thin that latex, the less smooth and the more gritty it cures out. Thin only so much as you need to match the fluid nozzle and needle set of the spray gun.
nice sharing sir thumps up
love your channel viewed many
How to thin down Valspar cabinet Enamel paint,I tried to use it but it would not go through my air sprayer,what do I need to do?
wow, great video sir!
I actually just started searching for info on HVLP sprayers. I am looking to paint Plantation Shutters. I want a hard shell tupe finish.
so in your opinion, what type of paint should I be using?
I have not purchased a sprayer yet.... any suggestions? I am not looking for pro equipment but definitely want a stable sprayer that will consistently work without issues..... any suggestions on that?
+ERIC POTTS Eric, I would rely on the advice of the paint manufacturer on what material to use. The folks at Sherwin Williams have always been very good to me with their recommendations. As for a sprayer, I just purchased what is called a bleeder gun which pressurizes the cup. Used it once so far and it worked fine spraying clear latex. Maybe I'll do a video on it. I figured for $30.00 I didn't have much to loose in trying one.
This has been a very helpful video for me so thanks so much for posting it. I wonder if you'd have any idea on what viscosity I'd need using a small touch up gun that has a 250ml cup and a tip size of 0.8 mm ? I've been pulling my hair out to get a waterborne guitar finish to atomize properly through this gun. It's a urethane acrylic by Grafted Coatings called KTM-9. And I can't seem to get any information out of them re viscosity and best way to spray.
Andrew Darnley Andrew, I bought a gun like this from Grizzley and attempted to use it only once. You will probably have to play around with it a bit. Depending on the viscosity of the paint out of the can, I'd play around by adding thinner/water a little at a time until I got a good spray pattern. I would suspect with standard latex paint you should start out at about 25%.
thank you for the info
great video
What percentage of water would you add to fusion mineral paint?
I mentioned the "viscosity cup" during a recent conversation with local Sherwin-Williams store manager and he had never heard of such a thing. He did say, not to thin more than 10% with their water based paints. I still end up with a lot of over-spray that drifts all over every flat surface in our basement. Using the Graco Ultimate with Fine Finish Low Pressure tips. How do you deal with over-spray in your shop?
Nice name lance
Looks like you have prior experience. LOL! Good information and clear presentation.
Thanks for the comment, Ron
Im thinning acrylic paint with purified water but sometimes when paint with my gravity feed spray gun the paint bleeds anyone knows why?
Why use a white surface to show us spraying white paint,
Do you ever used Avanti gun?
should you not use a gun with a internal mix nozzle for water based paint
d
I did buy one, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I intend to use it to also spray contact cement. Thanks for your comment - Ron
Nice video, clear demo. I have bought waterborne car spray paint. Just like to know what thinners to use.