‼PLEASE Leave a LIKE and a COMMENT...it REALLY DOES HELP‼Let me know your thoughts or just leave an emoji to let me know you were here. After you comment, CHECK OUT MY NEWEST VIDEO here ---> th-cam.com/video/2u8qYEMCsUY/w-d-xo.html
This channel actually manages to reliably discuss ideas and concepts not talked about elsewhere--without delving into utter tinfoil. Excellent analysis.
So cool. George's interwoven myth in the narrative is fascinating. The fandom is lucky to have smart people like yourself to help piece it all together.
When you read the part about the Shrouded Lord granting a boon to any man who can make him laugh, it reminded me of the instance when Penny says "We performed for the Sealord of Braavos once, and he laughed so hard that afterward he gave each of us a … a grand gift." The pause always drew my attention ... perhaps the Sealord of Braavos is also related to the Grey King.
Hi Virginia! That is a great find right there. The grey king certainly is a "Sea Lord" so this may be simply symbolic or there may be something more there! Make sure to check out Maester Merry on the Channel called "Up from Under Winterfell". Her latest video is an excellent one discussing hidden traces of a past CotF presence in Braavos. Highly recommend!
Loved this video x Just to add to the Mermaid fairytale in the original HCA the mermaid was fascinated by the concept of a humans immortal soul. The only way she could obtain an immortal soul was through the experience of selfless love. In the end she sacrifices herself but has a second chance to obtain a soul by becoming an air spirit to whisper good deeds to children and protecting them. This reminds me of the theory that Nissa nissa is inside the whispering weirwoods, protecting the CotF
It feels like lady stone heart might be a current echo or part of this. . Your deep dives into the really meta stuff is always some of the best. I really look foward to your nextt topic.
Some knowledge there:The Mermaids in the Greek Mythology were connected not only with shipwrecks and other bad stuff only but also are helping also sailors or ships when its needed.For example...in Homers Odyssey ...Lefkothea a semi goddess of the sea who was also a mermaid helps Ulysses to escape from the wrath of Poseidon and his massive waves and saves him by giving in him her veil for to be used as live vest and shows in him the way for the Land of the Faiacks ...Thetis mother of Achilles was also a semi goddess mermaid in Iliad ..helps her son in every hard situation he has and comforts him about the death of his friend Patrokles and when her son dies..she cries for him and takes his body along with her in her sea palace for to be buried there ..She also according Hesiodus in his writings reveals in Zeus a conspiracy theory that Hera and the other gods had plotted against him and he stops them with her help .In the Greek Folklore myths ..there is also the Mermaid[it was her real name]..the sister of Alexander the Great ..She there drinks the Unduying water instead to give it to her brother and becomes immortal..That causes her her curse [she was cursed to be half fish half human and to never rest in the seas]..Some sailors they say that when she always appears in the seas always asks the sailors if her beloved brother lives and is King..When they reply to her ''Alexander is lives an is KING''she gives them her blessing for a fine travel an offers to them precious gifts ..but when they reply that ''he is dead''then she angry sinks their ships and drowns them.This third example there can fit with what you say about the mermaids but is also proves that mermaids are like humans [because in the stories are semi-humans semi-gods]..can do bad things [drowning and torn apart sailors,sinking ships and etc] but also and good things[saving sailors,blessing their ships for a fine travel and save peoples from drowning]
Interesting video! Had me hooked from start to finish. The wife that Pendragon stole - Igraine - is in some retellings of the Arthurian myths the sister of the Lady of the Lake. Making also her a water-maid of sorts.
Amazing stuff again CFD! :) Just building on the Davos analysis, the sea talks to him with the voice of the Mother, which brings some additional kissing symbolism to Davos' (symbolic) resurrection after the BW- by way of Thoros/Beric and the fiery kiss - i.e. "are you my mother Thoros?"
Thank you Emma! Yes there is lots going on in the Davos chapter and Im hoping to do a full video breaking it down. There are lots of things to suggest Nissa Nissa was a mother of sorts... one of them being the woman Bran sees coming out of a pool praying for a son to avenge her. He isn't actually seeing NN in that vision, BUT we are given a possible hint about the nature of another maid in a pool!
im very late to this but this video is quite shocking. also in the davos fool symbolism at 24:50 the florent hand of the queen calls davos an ape, connecting with patchface and tyrion being called monkeys
Hey glad you liked it, yes the monkey symbolism is strong with azor ahai. You will see more of it now that you have identified it. It will start to stand out in the pages. Cheers!!
VERY intriguing video as always. It makes one wonder about Ser Garth Hightower (Aka Greysteel) who is currently raising an army to deal with the Ironborn. His nickname, 'Greysteel' is interesting in relation to this very plausible and well researched theory. Well done!
Great video like the previous ones, thank you for your inspiring work ! Just want to underline that the idea of a swan maiden is closer to the original greek mermaid of Homère in his Odyssey - women with bird-like apparences - than our modern depiction of it, love your theory.
Awesome, thank you ! Well... who wasn't descendant of that creepy old horny god in greek mythology after all ! Also, Persephone has some ties with Isis of old Egypt, linked to birds when she turns into one to have a son with the mommy of her husband Osiris she just brought back to life. ( same child who will cut her head off one day ... ) So yeah, mythology is great while waiting for Winds of Winter.. if you miss crazy incests and psychopaths.
Those are some really good observations, I was aware of the swan link with helen… but totally spaced over the concept of the sirens being bird women. Thanks so much! Really good stuff there!
The swan reminds me of a Celtic legend of (another psychopomp) Manannán mac Lir's wife having an affair with the warrior cúchulain with all the talk of women being fought over . When Fand sees that Cúchulainn's jealous wife, Emer is worthy of him (and accompanied by a troop of armed women), she decides to return to Manannán, who then shakes his magical cloak of mists between Fand and Cúchulainn so that they may never meet again. However Cú Chulainn also the Scandinavian Princess Derbforgaill who fell in love with Cú Chulainn, she transformed herself and her maidens into swans to travel and be near him. Not realising who it was Cú Chulainn, threw a stone at one of the swans, causing the bird to fall to the ground. She transformed back into human form and it was Derbforgaill. As she lay injured and bleeding at his feet Cú Chulainn then saved her life by taking the stone from her side and sucking out some of her blood. Although he had saved her, by sucking some of her blood, it had made it impossible for him to marry her. Derbforgaill subsequently married his foster-son Lugaid Riab nDerg. Celtic mythology inspired the Arthurian legends
Hi! I love the idea of the shout out to the little mermaid. I am half danish and when watching GOT when watching the scene with the Night King being created I was reminded Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen, which was my favourite story as a child - and the telling of the shard of mirror that gets lodged into Kai's heart
ok what theory channels like this NEED TO DO is to simply take us through a timeline of Plantos from the beginning because I am getting confused as hell. I understand that certain elements recur together, fool drowining and being revived by a womans kiss. But walk me through exactly how many seperate occurances have there been? Was this woman, Swann maid, merling, another creature? A skinchanger? A reainmated water preist?
I didnt knew that the Myth of Hugor and the 7 maids can related to the AA /Nissa Nissa myth ..can you explain more for that strange myth in a vid?I think its related to LMLS theory about the Bloodstone Emperor being AA and the Amethyst Empress Nissa Nissa..I love that LML theory...because debunks completely the myth that AA is the ''good guy''that saved the world ..[cliche]..by killing nissa nissa for a super extraordinary sword that never existed..This theory proves that AA is the Ultimate bad guy over there and not what people are fooled to believe.
I may very well go more in depth on the myth of hugor one of these days but dont have any set plans right now. Some legends are easier to piece together than others but i believe there may be links to the stary of red lake. Ultimately i dont see aa as a bad guy or a good guy. Grrm has made several mentions on the importance of "grey characters" and his long night hero probably follows this rule of thumb. So he was most likely both a hero and a villian. Its all relative to the point of view of the legend. He was most likely seen as a villian by some and a hero by others. What is interesting is that it could be possible to learn more about the long night by analyzing the cultures who view him as a hero and the others who dont.
I managed to finish the rest of this when i got home, so from what i'm understanding here is you are paralleling multiple references throughout history that take on different formsm sort of like a 1-that-is-3 christianity version of the holy trinity, and these embody the Grey King? Something i always found odd was House Goodbrother..who supposedly derive their lineage from tGK's loyal, steadfast older brother. I found that strange because it seems quite prolific in contemporary Westeros culture that the younger brother owes his.. let's say, allegiance, to the older. My premier example with this being Renly & Stannis, who swears up & down that Renly owes him fealty as due of a younger brother, like he did for Robert. He feels infuriated by this and i think theres more to do with it than just being law of succession. According to Asha, Harlaw is the strongest house in the Iron Islands, generally, overall. Yet when i later found out theres the main branch + multiple cadet branches of House Goodbrother all over the islands, i gotta question this & find it highly suspicious the House Goodbrothers + that we are aware of: (note, does not include their VASSALS.) - Downdelving - Corpse Lake - Crow Spike Keep - Shatterstone - The Goodbrothers of Orkmont - The Goodbrothers of Old Wyk the first 4 branches already sound like they have the most terrifying castles / holdfasts and mysterious territories of the Iron Islands, so i'm wondering whats up with that, especially since GRRMartin did go all out of his way in introducing us to the Goodbrothers via adding in Aeron as a PoV character - EDIT. forgot to mention the giant warhorn of a sigil, which is reminiscent of the Hellhorn Euron uses in 4th book, the same book that the Goodbrothers are introduced in.
Finding the jester links between Tyrion, Patchface, and Aeron is pure genius. Outstanding work. Edit: fun fact, the name "Jonquil" is a synonym for "reed". Immediately reminds me of the Starks taking down the Marsh King and taking his daughters for wives.
Not only have I come back a few months later to watch this again but my admiration is beyond "click to like". This is profound. I've actually taught myself how to create a playlist specifically so I can find/remember mind blowing ASoIaF videos like this one... and this is my first entry.
It may have already been asked or meant, but the tale of Maris the Maid and Uthor, but in the Arthurian legends, which I admit I am not completely well versed on, was King Uthor Pendragon’s stolen wife impregnated and she was the one to then give birth to Morgana aka Morgan Le Fay, who was Arthur’s half sister and later powerful sorceress and antogonist. This legend also brought to mind Lady Malora Hightower, “The Mad Maid”, the daughter of the current Lord of Oldtown who also shares a similar name as Uthor. They have both not been seen for at least a decade and are said to be practicing dark arts at the top of the Hightower in Oldtown where Euron is currently heading to attack or possibly take the magical mad maid Malora as a wife?. Possibly the one Aeron sees in his shade of the evening vision standing beside Euron and his creepy throne. It also reminds me of the real world Norse blood sacrifice needed to appease Austera in order to bring about the spring.
This ties nicely into the Queen of Love and beauty rituals, as well as several story arcs, including: Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, and Bittersteel. Aemon, Naerys, and Aegon Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Robert. There are obviously plenty of others. A genderbent version may be Brienne, Jaime, and Cersei. GRRM had an ex who left him for another author, so the love triangles could be linked to personal experience.
In your other video on the Grey King killing his brother, you put pictures of the Grey King and Garth the Greenhand side-by-side, and I couldn't help but think that the two images were similar to those of Ned (Descended from the Kings of Winter) and Robert (Descended from the Storm Kings). It seems that these quasi brothers are always close to conflict over a woman (Lyanna's secret; Daenery's fate). I'll stretch a bit here and say that there also seems to be recurring color themes besides grey and green: Rhaegar/Bloodraven (Black/Red); Lyanna/Seastar (Blue); and Robert/Bittersteel (Gold). So one side is Grey/Black/Red (Stannis) and the other is Green/Gold (Renly). (Wasn't there an internecine conflict between the Blacks and the Greens?) Stretching even further: If Jon is a stand in for Grey/Black and Daenerys is the maid, who is the brotherly stand in for Green/Gold? Some may guess Tyrion, but I would say that Tyrion is the "fool" the Grey/Drowned Kings seem to favor. Perhaps Young Griff really is Aegon VI. He is linked to gold imagery through the Golden Company, which contrasts well with the Night's watch. Two Targaryens in conflict over a (Da)Naerys... Could Jon's real book name be Aemon? If the Grey Kings slew his elder brother, could Jon do the same? And what colors are Dany's two extra dragons? Cream with Red wings (Viserion) and Green with Gold wings (Rhaegal)... May just be nothing though... :)
These archetypes are a little dynamic so it can be difficult to make predictions. As for as the gold and green theme you may want to check out the sigil of House Osgrey and look at the tale of the "little lion" and what happened to his sword in the Dunk and Egg novelas. Chequey is a checkered pattern... its a motley.
"under the sea" isn't in the little mermaid fairy tail, that was disney. in addition jamaican crabs we're also not present as crabs have no nationality.
I'm super late to the party. I had to note that a "shrouded lord" could be another way to imply a "stranger". Jaime IV of Feast shows the Stranger, hooded (or shrouded), with a "half-human" face. The Stranger is a merling: confirmed!
Hi JJ Volty! Thanks for watching! Yes, nice observation by both parties. I have heard many propositions for the inspiration of Nissa Nissa's name including this one, but the one I think is the most likely was mentioned by LmL in the livestream and that would be "Nyssa" or "Nysa" which is a Greek water nymph. Narcissus has some similarities, but the Nyssa/Nissa are strikingly similar and it is also very, very thematic by giving her the water woman associations.
The Order of the Greenhand tied Florian together with Brandon of the Bloody Blade and suggested that this was the same tale as Azor Ahai. Wondering after your video if Brandon of the the Bloody Blade fits your Grey King/Shrouded Lord theory as well.
Yes! So I have watched the video you are mentioning which is why I had mentioned that the fandom had already pointed out that Florian is most likely inspired by the patron saint of fire. Im not really sure about Brandon of the Bloody Blade to be honest, I couldn't find enough evidence to warrant including him at this point. However, their identification of our "jonquil" is very interesting because with their claims of Rose of Red Lake you can see a very strong association with water. So Rose of Red Lake could very well be a possibility, but there are some strong implications that come with tying those two characters together if you look at what Brandon of the Bloody Blade did at Red Lake and Hukko the Hero did in the Velvet Hills and then read the passage where Jaime sees "maidenpool". It implies that Jonquil and her companions were possibly COTF.
"They saw nothing living but a few feral dogs that went slinking away at the sound of their approach. The pool from which the town took its name, where legend said that Florian the Fool had first glimpsed Jonquil bathing with her sisters, was so choked with rotting corpses that the water had turned into a murky grey-green soup. Jaime took one look and burst into song. "Six maids there were in a spring-fed pool . . ."
So essentially I was not prepared to make that claim with the evidence at hand, although Order of the Greenhand may indeed be correct with this pairing.
then crone better be the wife of smith, since wisdom is most surely applied in worldly sciences in that world, and not much elsewhere. that makes the warrior a perpetual bachelor, as two of the most well known warrior orders (nights watches beginning days, and kingsguard) are sworn bachelors.
Being kissed by a woman with "lips as cold as ice" seems like a strong reference to the Night's Queen. What is with these mysterious women and the men they choose? Tyanna of the Tower, Alys Rivers, Melisandre, Shiera Seastar, Danelle Lothston, Jenny of Oldstones, Lyanna Stark, Daenys Targaryen, Mysaria - even characters like Sansa and Daenerys - they all seem like versions of the same prototype of the mysterious woman who has otherworldly powers or is not quite human - Ellenei, The Night's Queen, Nissa Nissa, the daughters of Garth the Green, Jonquil. They all have such similar characteristics - irresistible beauty, mysterious magical power, inspiring love and fear in equal measure. GRRM sure loves his archetypes.
I've been curious about this as well. It also seems to possibly have some connections to the story/tale about the GEOTD and the Amethyst Empress/Blood Betrayal. It's not clear if it was the betrayal itself, or as a result of a host of things regarding the BSR, but that reference to the Maiden Made of Light turning her back on the world and unleashing the Lion of Night always made me wonder; who are THEY? Are they archetypes already seen in the story as well, or are they the actual gods/goddesses these other people in the story are mirroring? The Fisher Queens also seem to have a lot of this imagery and symbolism. What if the "Old Gods" are just the original embodiment of those particular archetype(s)? The original Grey King, Garth Greenhand, etc, are all influencing their 'faithful' and/or re-emerging as a supernatural-esque reincarnation of their selves to replay their "role"? It seems like some are pre-destined in a sense to fulfill their 'role', much like a mummer's show. I feel a bit sad that this is the case and I feel the question must be asked as to whether THAT cycle should be broken? Much like whatever specifically has caused the seasons' cycles to be unbalanced needs to be broken? The only thing that really doesn't make a ton of sense yet is the true connection of The Others. I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll see another of these Ellenei/Night's Queen archetypes within their culture that helps to explain the Night King and Queen and possibly Craster's 'sacrifices'. It sort of feels like if we have that piece of the puzzle we could possibly suss out what The Others are really after and not just spreading the cold throughout Planetos mindlessly turning everything into dead servants. Because, it would seem eventually they might die out anyway as they may have a procreation problem that they can't solve 'alone'. I also wonder if there's a sort of Gaia or Mother Planetos type of Archetype George will introduce as that's a common old tale that I think spans many cultures as well and it seems would fit right into George's universe?
i agree that god's and too much magic can cheapen the story fast. The same happened to me with the lord of the rings... everything became so cheap when you see how the gods can create shit our of singing but almost do nothing to help middle earth against dark lords
When you talked about the story of the statue that was brought to life by a kiss I immediately thought of the tale of Galatea and Pygmalion. 😳The former was a statue that its sculpter fell in love with and begged Aphrodite to bring her to life.
How does this foreshadow Tyrion's future? Tyrion dressed in motley? Does that mean he will play the fool for Daenerys'? I am sure Patchface will die probably by trying to save Shireen from Melisandre's fires. But what will happen to Tyrion?
Hi William! I wish I had a solid answer to your question because its a good one. From what I can tell, the author is mostly using this symbolism to inform the reader of the Long Night narrative. Often times this symbolism is dynamic and can move from one character to another depending on the scene. There are other hints of symbolism that I did not show in the video due to time constraints as well. At this time, I don't think the author is informing us of the future with this line of symbolism, but rather of the past. It is quite intriguing that it is laid so thick on Tyrion in particular as a character which is something I may end up diving deeper into. Thank you for watching and thank you for your thoughts!
With all honesty, I never connected Tyrion with the Grey King or Patchface. Yet I have to say it does make a logical bit of sense. Cersei in particular thinks of Tyrion as a fool. And his nickname, Imp, would seem to imply it. Is there more here than we've noticed before?
The acrobatics for one, but I was speaking in the more in the general sense. Tyrion taking the name Hugor Hill for example and watching Lemore bathing then drowning and Lemore saving him for example.
There must be more to the image of Tyrion as a fool though. Let's not forget Mushroom from who the most salacious account of the Dance of Dragons originates. And the other fool whose name I forget who Aegon slays in his effort to conquer Dorne.
Crowfoods daughter.... could you give me some insight into your preparation and methods of combing through all the information we have to put together a good video?
Yes, Im actually working on a video about that. Not sure when that one will be out, but you are not the first one to ask. PM me your email on twitter and I can send you what I have scripted so far. Let me know your twitter handle so that I can follow you, otherwise you can send a direct message.
Thank you for this great video. I can't imagine how much time goes into producing something this long and great. The name Argoth can etymologically be linked to the Old French word argot which is a secret language of thieves and crooks. So the Grey Giant with his Stone skin is literally called a thief.
That’s interesting… might tie into the red wanderer that is also called the thief. That’s the best time to steal a woman when the thief is in the moonmaid.
another connection from Helen is, that she kind of was a swan maiden, fathered by the sky and lightning/stormgod zeus, that had taken the appearence of a swan for mating . . . . don't think about it, but it would make her a swan maiden in a sense and it was even rumored, that she hetched from an egg
So if Grey King / Shrouded lord resides in essos currenlty, then how did he also get shipwrecked on the iron islands? And if hes the Fool then why is maidenpool named for the myth? Was he born on the Rhoyne, or near maidenpool or on the iron islands?
Think of the shrouded lord like a spirit, a water spirit in a sense. According to victarion the drowned god is strong in places where many people have drowned. So shipbeaker bay, the rhoyne, the blackwater... ect. The drowning likely occured in the sunset sea, with the resurrection occurring on the iron islands.
@@TheDisputedLands By the way, I love your videos! Ok, so YES, I beleive that a single man on a weirwood boat drowned in a shipwreck on the sunset sea, was resurected on the iron islands (by a woman who may already have lived there and was either a non-human race, or a magic preisess), and he then became the Grey King. My question is, in your opinion, is this the same literal person who generated the myth of the founding of Storms End with Elenei? And is it the same person with the Swann maidens? And the same person on the Rhoyne?
This was amazing! first vid of yours ive seen. I love ASOIAF, and you are one in a hand full of content creators I can watch. Fantastic research, Great topic! you got a new Sub
I guess I need to stop making the blood sacrifices then😬. Actually, its really hard for me to pronounce three consecutive "Rs" correctly, so I try to say something else.🙂
Okay, I had pointed out that finding Robert's daughter had been a parallel to the Tower of Joy, and these are everywhere. Earlier I pointed out that Rhaegar was full of Bloodstone Emporer imagery. Rubies are blood colored. The entire story is an inverse parallel. The "7" Kingdoms aren't 7 anymore. They were conquered by Aegon, making Westeros, the "Sunset" Kingdoms, an empire, or the Sunset Empire, where the bulk of the story of the Long Night is set to take place. During the last Long Night it was the Empire of the Dawn. For generations, a man has sat upon the Iron Throne, but it has been usurped by the new Amethyst Empress, Cercei. Martin has gone on record, stating that there is no singular hero in this. We all keep hanging onto this Azor Ahai prophecy, or Prince that was promised, or dragon having three heads, but what context do we really have to some of those? Jaime is Tyr, the norse god of Justice, who lost his hand to Fenrir, and look at his story arc. He is very centered around justice, and what it means to swear an oath. I brought up Victarian and Saint Florian, and so forth, but in the end, it can be considered a monomyth, but, if a monumental event occurs, there is no singular hero that arises, but many. Go back to Dance, when Bran is looking into the past at the Starks and the witch is sacrificing men. I'm not sure if I believe this is how it will happen, but if... Lady Stoneheart began sacrificing men, then giving them the kiss, they are all the resurrected gray king. I know I had said that a mad wildling might throw Mellisandre into the flames, but it wouldn't affect her. She comes from Asshai, close enough to Lang. The only tower to burn so far is the Tower of the Hand, but we pretty much believe that the Red Keep burns. Okay, now I'm done. Sorry, as you were. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.
This made me think about a few things. Catelyn being given the kiss to arise as Lady Stoneheart being the inverse parallel. Then Victarian being a Saint Florian, accepting the Lord of Light and keeping the Drowned God, but I feel that Mel is the strongest candidate for Euron's bride, and Euron being an inverse Gray King. Mel is going through a hard time right now and the language describing the bride in the Forsaken chapter and Daenerys' visions in the House of the Undying describe a woman of shadow and fire hands. Catelyn is a Tully, and the sigil is a fish, so she is a mermaid. She was fought over by Petyr and Brandon, then betrothed to both Brandon and Ned, two brothers. The Starks are all described as gray everywhere. I think that the Gray King archetype is a king of Winter. Look at how many of the characters are lining up, and the archetype symbolism is putting it on full display. Obviously, Bran will be the new Green King at the end of the Long Night, but the Long Night is the Night's King's to rule, or the Winter King. I kept thinking back to Jon's dreams and how the kings keep telling him that he doesn't belong there, and what I'd commented a week or two ago about the Nightfort with its resembling the House of the Undying, and it has to be the seat that Jon takes. Stannis was going to move there because he displays clear Gray King imagery, but he's not The king. I think that many figures will take up those mantels to give birth to a new string of stories that all take place at once, just like the stories give so many characters burning swords. Jaime has had a dream now of one. Tyrion has just taken on the archetype of The Shrouded Lord and so forth. Rhaegar even gave off Euron vibes at the Battle of the Trident, armored in black with red rubies. If we look at all of the old stories that don't seem to fit a specific timeline, it can be inferred that they all happened simultaneously during the Long Night, and that each character was distinct. So, Euron could be the valonquar that slays Cercei, but maybe not. The foretelling did not say whose younger brother it would be. Euron is portraying the Bloodstone Emporer and is heading for King's Landing. I know a lot of us keep thinking Oldtown, but, Aeron's vision points to King's Landing. He has to slay the amethyst empress and take the tiger woman for his bride.
I can't say that I was entirely convinced of your theory, but you drew on some powerful and subtle connections that I never made (especially since I don't read the books). You did get me thinking about Elenei and possible in-universe connections to lore. History shows that often, in order to justify actions taken out of love for a woman, it's common to emphasize and/or exaggerate the woman's beauty, like Cleopatra I suppose. With the few things I know about Elenei, I wonder if she really was a mermaid. And if she wasn't, who were her parents? If they were responsible for the famous storm at her wedding, who could have been powerful enough to cast it? Does the same magic that killed the Shrouded Lord have anything to do with that event? Was it Rhoynish magic (associated with water)?
You've been my companion in the past month, your videos are a delight! I've watched several more than once. Thank you for your work in putting all this together, I'm amazed and more than ever in love with ASOIAF, GRRM and the fandom.
Wait. So are you saying that GRRM originally had the Shrouded Lord to be revealed as the Grey King? What plot significance would this achieve? What would it tell us about plans for the future? Also, since Tyrion did drown and was revived in what way does that change his story arc going forward if he is to be compared to Patchface or Aeron?
Yes. Tyrion would have met the Shrouded Lord, Drowned God entity. The Grey King is cohesive with what we know the Ironborn worship, think of him like a mortal avatar.The Shrouded Lord being the variation told around the area of the sorrows, the magic is all the same. This is the road not taken so the plot significance is minimal to the present storyline and what he was trying to obtain he can do so by other avenues. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDisputedLands Very interesting. Is there a Westeros equivalent avatar? Do you think this was too much for GRRM because it kinda proves the existence of the Gods in his story and he has wanted their existence to be more nebulous?? You theories are so in depth and well researched I can’t get enough. Thank for for the content. Lastly, all of this symbolism and world building is amazing detail that George puts into the narrative but is there a purpose beyond depth of the world? Does it help us predict future events - if we catch the symbolism on first read?
@@judsonbates1359 yes the path of magic was too steep that early on and sets a precedence. I believe by the end of the story the original players in the original long night will play a part in the current events of the series. AA will be reborn inside euron, NN soul may very well be released and the original three eyed crow was likely the brother of AA/Grey King. Im doing a video when house of the dragon airs that will cover the three eyed crow and his original significance.
@@TheDisputedLands so interesting! Is this more nods to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn? I would never have guessed that these God archetypes would play a role in the end game. Thank you so much for the content and responses.
Hi there andvthanks for watching! Maiden is more of an archetype... its a way to help us understand the theme of the abducted woman. The aspects of the faith of the seven are meant to be instructive symbolically as well rather than attempting to place them in marital relationships. I would suggest looking at the concept of the triple goddess. The triple goddess has three aspects. Mother maiden and crone. It is the role of the triple goddess to resurrect the horned lord. Mother maiden and crone are three aspects of one diety in a sense.
@@TheDisputedLands most possibly yes. but i havent meant literally too. since literally a perpetual maiden wife has a bit of an oxymoronish sound to it. havent read the books but they were called the seven that is one, or something similar if i am not mistaken. i just havent realized that those two concepts would work together that much. like the hindu god of creation has knowledge, wisdom, communication personified as a wife, preservation has wealth and resources goddess, and destruction, reconstruction has mother time/raw power. i am not a hindu so i apolagise if i represent something wrong in advance..
Excellent! Job well done 👏👏👏 .. I'm loving your choices of topics and discussions on this channel. Thank you for all the work you put into this, it's much appreciated! Hugs & sunshine 🌞 N
‼PLEASE Leave a LIKE and a COMMENT...it REALLY DOES HELP‼Let me know your thoughts or just leave an emoji to let me know you were here.
After you comment, CHECK OUT MY NEWEST VIDEO here ---> th-cam.com/video/2u8qYEMCsUY/w-d-xo.html
This channel actually manages to reliably discuss ideas and concepts not talked about elsewhere--without delving into utter tinfoil. Excellent analysis.
So cool. George's interwoven myth in the narrative is fascinating. The fandom is lucky to have smart people like yourself to help piece it all together.
Hey steven! Glad you liked it!!
When you read the part about the Shrouded Lord granting a boon to any man who can make him laugh, it reminded me of the instance when Penny says "We performed for the Sealord of Braavos once, and he laughed so hard that afterward he gave each of us a … a grand gift." The pause always drew my attention ... perhaps the Sealord of Braavos is also related to the Grey King.
Hi Virginia! That is a great find right there. The grey king certainly is a "Sea Lord" so this may be simply symbolic or there may be something more there! Make sure to check out Maester Merry on the Channel called "Up from Under Winterfell". Her latest video is an excellent one discussing hidden traces of a past CotF presence in Braavos. Highly recommend!
Thanks for the recommendation, I will certainly check it out. Keep of the good work, I am enamored with your content!
Check out Orderofthegreenhand while your at it
This video is EPIC!!!!
Thank you so much Quinn!
Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites for this kind of nerd lore. Love how well thought out your points are.
Thank you so much!
The jonquil flower is also called the narcissus (NissaNissa?)
Hahaha! I should have waited until the end of the video before commenting!
Loved this video x
Just to add to the Mermaid fairytale in the original HCA the mermaid was fascinated by the concept of a humans immortal soul. The only way she could obtain an immortal soul was through the experience of selfless love. In the end she sacrifices herself but has a second chance to obtain a soul by becoming an air spirit to whisper good deeds to children and protecting them.
This reminds me of the theory that Nissa nissa is inside the whispering weirwoods, protecting the CotF
That was a deep dive. I'm surprised you don't have the bends lol. Words cannot express how much I enjoy your mythological analysis videos. 💖
I know this comment is four years old but it is highly underrated. You deserved more likes.
It feels like lady stone heart might be a current echo or part of this. . Your deep dives into the really meta stuff is always some of the best. I really look foward to your nextt topic.
Some knowledge there:The Mermaids in the Greek Mythology were connected not only with shipwrecks and other bad stuff only but also are helping also sailors or ships when its needed.For example...in Homers Odyssey ...Lefkothea a semi goddess of the sea who was also a mermaid helps Ulysses to escape from the wrath of Poseidon and his massive waves and saves him by giving in him her veil for to be used as live vest and shows in him the way for the Land of the Faiacks ...Thetis mother of Achilles was also a semi goddess mermaid in Iliad ..helps her son in every hard situation he has and comforts him about the death of his friend Patrokles and when her son dies..she cries for him and takes his body along with her in her sea palace for to be buried there ..She also according Hesiodus in his writings reveals in Zeus a conspiracy theory that Hera and the other gods had plotted against him and he stops them with her help .In the Greek Folklore myths ..there is also the Mermaid[it was her real name]..the sister of Alexander the Great ..She there drinks the Unduying water instead to give it to her brother and becomes immortal..That causes her her curse [she was cursed to be half fish half human and to never rest in the seas]..Some sailors they say that when she always appears in the seas always asks the sailors if her beloved brother lives and is King..When they reply to her ''Alexander is lives an is KING''she gives them her blessing for a fine travel an offers to them precious gifts ..but when they reply that ''he is dead''then she angry sinks their ships and drowns them.This third example there can fit with what you say about the mermaids but is also proves that mermaids are like humans [because in the stories are semi-humans semi-gods]..can do bad things [drowning and torn apart sailors,sinking ships and etc] but also and good things[saving sailors,blessing their ships for a fine travel and save peoples from drowning]
Interesting video! Had me hooked from start to finish.
The wife that Pendragon stole - Igraine - is in some retellings of the Arthurian myths the sister of the Lady of the Lake. Making also her a water-maid of sorts.
Amazing stuff again CFD! :)
Just building on the Davos analysis, the sea talks to him with the voice of the Mother, which brings some additional kissing symbolism to Davos' (symbolic) resurrection after the BW- by way of Thoros/Beric and the fiery kiss - i.e. "are you my mother Thoros?"
Thank you Emma! Yes there is lots going on in the Davos chapter and Im hoping to do a full video breaking it down. There are lots of things to suggest Nissa Nissa was a mother of sorts... one of them being the woman Bran sees coming out of a pool praying for a son to avenge her. He isn't actually seeing NN in that vision, BUT we are given a possible hint about the nature of another maid in a pool!
im very late to this but this video is quite shocking. also in the davos fool symbolism at 24:50 the florent hand of the queen calls davos an ape, connecting with patchface and tyrion being called monkeys
Hey glad you liked it, yes the monkey symbolism is strong with azor ahai. You will see more of it now that you have identified it. It will start to stand out in the pages. Cheers!!
@@TheDisputedLands lol i can only hope, started my reread in may but nothing can help more than the videos you make, biggups
Ok, but what does it all MEAN?
Also why does the drowned god turn everyone into creepy sad sacks?
Hi Clare. In response to your question, make sure stay tuned. Thanks for watching!!
VERY intriguing video as always. It makes one wonder about Ser Garth Hightower (Aka Greysteel) who is currently raising an army to deal with the Ironborn. His nickname, 'Greysteel' is interesting in relation to this very plausible and well researched theory. Well done!
Great question. Not 100% sure, but you've given me something to chew on for sure!! Thanks so much for watching!
I have a pregnant friend who plans on naming her daughter Persephone... I can’t wait to have her listen to this... thanks Amanda! Great video!💕
Oh I love that!!
Great video like the previous ones, thank you for your inspiring work !
Just want to underline that the idea of a swan maiden is closer to the original greek mermaid of Homère in his Odyssey - women with bird-like apparences - than our modern depiction of it, love your theory.
Renaud Antoniazzo link between swans and Helen/Eleni as well, with Helen’s father Zeus turning into a swan to seduce her mother Leda
Awesome, thank you ! Well... who wasn't descendant of that creepy old horny god in greek mythology after all !
Also, Persephone has some ties with Isis of old Egypt, linked to birds when she turns into one to have a son with the mommy of her husband Osiris she just brought back to life. ( same child who will cut her head off one day ... )
So yeah, mythology is great while waiting for Winds of Winter.. if you miss crazy incests and psychopaths.
Those are some really good observations, I was aware of the swan link with helen… but totally spaced over the concept of the sirens being bird women. Thanks so much! Really good stuff there!
Trotter was supposed to have had wooden feet 😂😂😂
I'm glad JRR scrapped that
Another solid video.
Really enjoy the channel!!
ya, Preston and Lands are the only I&F channels i can watch
The swan reminds me of a Celtic legend of (another psychopomp) Manannán mac Lir's wife having an affair with the warrior cúchulain with all the talk of women being fought over . When Fand sees that Cúchulainn's jealous wife, Emer is worthy of him (and accompanied by a troop of armed women), she decides to return to Manannán, who then shakes his magical cloak of mists between Fand and Cúchulainn so that they may never meet again.
However Cú Chulainn also the Scandinavian Princess Derbforgaill who fell in love with Cú Chulainn, she transformed herself and her maidens into swans to travel and be near him. Not realising who it was Cú Chulainn, threw a stone at one of the swans, causing the bird to fall to the ground. She transformed back into human form and it was Derbforgaill. As she lay injured and bleeding at his feet Cú Chulainn then saved her life by taking the stone from her side and sucking out some of her blood. Although he had saved her, by sucking some of her blood, it had made it impossible for him to marry her. Derbforgaill subsequently married his foster-son Lugaid Riab nDerg.
Celtic mythology inspired the Arthurian legends
Very cool Emilio I. Gonna take a look, thanks!
@@TheDisputedLands no problem
Possible origins of Swan Lake...
@@yensid4294 agreed
Helen of Troy also could compared to Lyanna Stark and Paris to Rhaegar and Robert to Menelaus ..This Iliad connection is obvious on GRRM work.
This is absolutely brilliant. Really. I think that maybe the maiden-kiss of life parallels apply to queen of the Night's king.
stay tuned!
The Little Mermaid=Luthien. Just saying.
Hi! I love the idea of the shout out to the little mermaid. I am half danish and when watching GOT when watching the scene with the Night King being created I was reminded Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen, which was my favourite story as a child - and the telling of the shard of mirror that gets lodged into Kai's heart
Wow, you might be onto something there! Great observation!
that was my favorite story too
ok what theory channels like this NEED TO DO is to simply take us through a timeline of Plantos from the beginning because I am getting confused as hell. I understand that certain elements recur together, fool drowining and being revived by a womans kiss. But walk me through exactly how many seperate occurances have there been? Was this woman, Swann maid, merling, another creature? A skinchanger? A reainmated water preist?
Watch the mazemaker video... you will get some answers.
I think the problem is there actually isn't a definitive timeline of the world.
Rewatching this, and just thought: the name of the ship Davos is rescued by is Shayala’s Dance - he is rescued by a “woman”
ha! he sure is!
all ships are female because male names give them bad luck
I didnt knew that the Myth of Hugor and the 7 maids can related to the AA /Nissa Nissa myth ..can you explain more for that strange myth in a vid?I think its related to LMLS theory about the Bloodstone Emperor being AA and the Amethyst Empress Nissa Nissa..I love that LML theory...because debunks completely the myth that AA is the ''good guy''that saved the world ..[cliche]..by killing nissa nissa for a super extraordinary sword that never existed..This theory proves that AA is the Ultimate bad guy over there and not what people are fooled to believe.
I may very well go more in depth on the myth of hugor one of these days but dont have any set plans right now. Some legends are easier to piece together than others but i believe there may be links to the stary of red lake. Ultimately i dont see aa as a bad guy or a good guy. Grrm has made several mentions on the importance of "grey characters" and his long night hero probably follows this rule of thumb. So he was most likely both a hero and a villian. Its all relative to the point of view of the legend. He was most likely seen as a villian by some and a hero by others. What is interesting is that it could be possible to learn more about the long night by analyzing the cultures who view him as a hero and the others who dont.
only 6 mins in so far.. Durran Godsgrief is the Grey King?!?
did you finish the vid?
Yes... durran is another version of the azor ahai monomyth😊
I managed to finish the rest of this when i got home, so from what i'm understanding here is you are paralleling multiple references throughout history that take on different formsm sort of like a 1-that-is-3 christianity version of the holy trinity, and these embody the Grey King?
Something i always found odd was House Goodbrother..who supposedly derive their lineage from tGK's loyal, steadfast older brother. I found that strange because it seems quite prolific in contemporary Westeros culture that the younger brother owes his.. let's say, allegiance, to the older.
My premier example with this being Renly & Stannis, who swears up & down that Renly owes him fealty as due of a younger brother, like he did for Robert. He feels infuriated by this and i think theres more to do with it than just being law of succession.
According to Asha, Harlaw is the strongest house in the Iron Islands, generally, overall. Yet when i later found out theres the main branch + multiple cadet branches of House Goodbrother all over the islands, i gotta question this & find it highly suspicious
the House Goodbrothers + that we are aware of: (note, does not include their VASSALS.)
- Downdelving
- Corpse Lake
- Crow Spike Keep
- Shatterstone
- The Goodbrothers of Orkmont
- The Goodbrothers of Old Wyk
the first 4 branches already sound like they have the most terrifying castles / holdfasts and mysterious territories of the Iron Islands, so i'm wondering whats up with that, especially since GRRMartin did go all out of his way in introducing us to the Goodbrothers via adding in Aeron as a PoV character
- EDIT. forgot to mention the giant warhorn of a sigil, which is reminiscent of the Hellhorn Euron uses in 4th book, the same book that the Goodbrothers are introduced in.
@@Baratheon. did you watch my video on Garth and the grey king? I address this as well.
@@Baratheon. I think you will get a kick out of the Garth and grey king video. Check that out when you get a chance.
Finding the jester links between Tyrion, Patchface, and Aeron is pure genius. Outstanding work.
Edit: fun fact, the name "Jonquil" is a synonym for "reed". Immediately reminds me of the Starks taking down the Marsh King and taking his daughters for wives.
I have to shoot, then I am soooo excited about watching this during upload! What is dead may never die!
… But rises again, harder and stronger! Thanks for watching John St Baptiste!
Not only have I come back a few months later to watch this again but my admiration is beyond "click to like". This is profound. I've actually taught myself how to create a playlist specifically so I can find/remember mind blowing ASoIaF videos like this one... and this is my first entry.
Cool video
love your content and the ironborn
It may have already been asked or meant, but the tale of Maris the Maid and Uthor, but in the Arthurian legends, which I admit I am not completely well versed on, was King Uthor Pendragon’s stolen wife impregnated and she was the one to then give birth to Morgana aka Morgan Le Fay, who was Arthur’s half sister and later powerful sorceress and antogonist. This legend also brought to mind Lady Malora Hightower, “The Mad Maid”, the daughter of the current Lord of Oldtown who also shares a similar name as Uthor. They have both not been seen for at least a decade and are said to be practicing dark arts at the top of the Hightower in Oldtown where Euron is currently heading to attack or possibly take the magical mad maid Malora as a wife?. Possibly the one Aeron sees in his shade of the evening vision standing beside Euron and his creepy throne. It also reminds me of the real world Norse blood sacrifice needed to appease Austera in order to bring about the spring.
Great video!! You make connections I miss and I'm like how'd I miss that? "The little mermaid" was nice...Thanks for posting it.
This ties nicely into the Queen of Love and beauty rituals, as well as several story arcs, including:
Bloodraven, Shiera Seastar, and Bittersteel.
Aemon, Naerys, and Aegon
Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Robert.
There are obviously plenty of others.
A genderbent version may be Brienne, Jaime, and Cersei.
GRRM had an ex who left him for another author, so the love triangles could be linked to personal experience.
Exactly! Great takes there!
In your other video on the Grey King killing his brother, you put pictures of the Grey King and Garth the Greenhand side-by-side, and I couldn't help but think that the two images were similar to those of Ned (Descended from the Kings of Winter) and Robert (Descended from the Storm Kings). It seems that these quasi brothers are always close to conflict over a woman (Lyanna's secret; Daenery's fate).
I'll stretch a bit here and say that there also seems to be recurring color themes besides grey and green: Rhaegar/Bloodraven (Black/Red); Lyanna/Seastar (Blue); and Robert/Bittersteel (Gold). So one side is Grey/Black/Red (Stannis) and the other is Green/Gold (Renly). (Wasn't there an internecine conflict between the Blacks and the Greens?)
Stretching even further: If Jon is a stand in for Grey/Black and Daenerys is the maid, who is the brotherly stand in for Green/Gold? Some may guess Tyrion, but I would say that Tyrion is the "fool" the Grey/Drowned Kings seem to favor. Perhaps Young Griff really is Aegon VI. He is linked to gold imagery through the Golden Company, which contrasts well with the Night's watch. Two Targaryens in conflict over a (Da)Naerys... Could Jon's real book name be Aemon? If the Grey Kings slew his elder brother, could Jon do the same?
And what colors are Dany's two extra dragons? Cream with Red wings (Viserion) and Green with Gold wings (Rhaegal)...
May just be nothing though... :)
These archetypes are a little dynamic so it can be difficult to make predictions. As for as the gold and green theme you may want to check out the sigil of House Osgrey and look at the tale of the "little lion" and what happened to his sword in the Dunk and Egg novelas. Chequey is a checkered pattern... its a motley.
This is the ASOIAF channel I've always wanted! Thank you for your efforts and sharing your brilliant mind.
Hey thank you Thomas! This feedback made my day.
@TheDisputedLands Just rewatching some of the videos and I still stand by this comment 5 years later! 😂
"under the sea" isn't in the little mermaid fairy tail, that was disney. in addition jamaican crabs we're also not present as crabs have no nationality.
I'm super late to the party. I had to note that a "shrouded lord" could be another way to imply a "stranger". Jaime IV of Feast shows the Stranger, hooded (or shrouded), with a "half-human" face. The Stranger is a merling: confirmed!
This is my favorite video of yours so far! Great job Amanda! ✌❤🐺 I'm going to watch it again right now lol
Awesome! Glad you liked it!
Meanwhile, Nacissus sounds like "Nissa Nissa". I wish I could claim that observation but I got if from Order of the Green Hand.
Hi JJ Volty! Thanks for watching! Yes, nice observation by both parties. I have heard many propositions for the inspiration of Nissa Nissa's name including this one, but the one I think is the most likely was mentioned by LmL in the livestream and that would be "Nyssa" or "Nysa" which is a Greek water nymph. Narcissus has some similarities, but the Nyssa/Nissa are strikingly similar and it is also very, very thematic by giving her the water woman associations.
Narcissa is also called Jonquil, a nod to Florian the Fool and Jonquil of Maidenpool, Nissa Nissa could be Neassa from Irish Mythology too.
The Order of the Greenhand tied Florian together with Brandon of the Bloody Blade and suggested that this was the same tale as Azor Ahai. Wondering after your video if Brandon of the the Bloody Blade fits your Grey King/Shrouded Lord theory as well.
Yes! So I have watched the video you are mentioning which is why I had mentioned that the fandom had already pointed out that Florian is most likely inspired by the patron saint of fire. Im not really sure about Brandon of the Bloody Blade to be honest, I couldn't find enough evidence to warrant including him at this point. However, their identification of our "jonquil" is very interesting because with their claims of Rose of Red Lake you can see a very strong association with water. So Rose of Red Lake could very well be a possibility, but there are some strong implications that come with tying those two characters together if you look at what Brandon of the Bloody Blade did at Red Lake and Hukko the Hero did in the Velvet Hills and then read the passage where Jaime sees "maidenpool". It implies that Jonquil and her companions were possibly COTF.
"They saw nothing living but a few feral dogs that went slinking away at the sound of their approach. The pool from which the town took its name, where legend said that Florian the Fool had first glimpsed Jonquil bathing with her sisters, was so choked with rotting corpses that the water had turned into a murky grey-green soup. Jaime took one look and burst into song. "Six maids there were in a spring-fed pool . . ."
So essentially I was not prepared to make that claim with the evidence at hand, although Order of the Greenhand may indeed be correct with this pairing.
The Disputed Lands thanks for your take on this, I really enjoyed your video.
Hey thanks so much!
then crone better be the wife of smith, since wisdom is most surely applied in worldly sciences in that world, and not much elsewhere.
that makes the warrior a perpetual bachelor, as two of the most well known warrior orders (nights watches beginning days, and kingsguard) are sworn bachelors.
A fascinating video. You have illustrated how rich George RR’s writing and story telling is!
Your analysis is amazing! Can't wait to see what else you find! Thumbs up as always.
Thanks for watching and love the screen name!
Hi jumped over from Robert's channel .Thankyou for your insights and smarts . Great video :)
Being kissed by a woman with "lips as cold as ice" seems like a strong reference to the Night's Queen. What is with these mysterious women and the men they choose? Tyanna of the Tower, Alys Rivers, Melisandre, Shiera Seastar, Danelle Lothston, Jenny of Oldstones, Lyanna Stark, Daenys Targaryen, Mysaria - even characters like Sansa and Daenerys - they all seem like versions of the same prototype of the mysterious woman who has otherworldly powers or is not quite human - Ellenei, The Night's Queen, Nissa Nissa, the daughters of Garth the Green, Jonquil. They all have such similar characteristics - irresistible beauty, mysterious magical power, inspiring love and fear in equal measure. GRRM sure loves his archetypes.
I've been curious about this as well. It also seems to possibly have some connections to the story/tale about the GEOTD and the Amethyst Empress/Blood Betrayal. It's not clear if it was the betrayal itself, or as a result of a host of things regarding the BSR, but that reference to the Maiden Made of Light turning her back on the world and unleashing the Lion of Night always made me wonder; who are THEY? Are they archetypes already seen in the story as well, or are they the actual gods/goddesses these other people in the story are mirroring?
The Fisher Queens also seem to have a lot of this imagery and symbolism.
What if the "Old Gods" are just the original embodiment of those particular archetype(s)? The original Grey King, Garth Greenhand, etc, are all influencing their 'faithful' and/or re-emerging as a supernatural-esque reincarnation of their selves to replay their "role"?
It seems like some are pre-destined in a sense to fulfill their 'role', much like a mummer's show. I feel a bit sad that this is the case and I feel the question must be asked as to whether THAT cycle should be broken? Much like whatever specifically has caused the seasons' cycles to be unbalanced needs to be broken?
The only thing that really doesn't make a ton of sense yet is the true connection of The Others. I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll see another of these Ellenei/Night's Queen archetypes within their culture that helps to explain the Night King and Queen and possibly Craster's 'sacrifices'. It sort of feels like if we have that piece of the puzzle we could possibly suss out what The Others are really after and not just spreading the cold throughout Planetos mindlessly turning everything into dead servants. Because, it would seem eventually they might die out anyway as they may have a procreation problem that they can't solve 'alone'.
I also wonder if there's a sort of Gaia or Mother Planetos type of Archetype George will introduce as that's a common old tale that I think spans many cultures as well and it seems would fit right into George's universe?
Could Elenei be a Mermaid? But she traded her immortality for the Storm King, not for the Grey King.
Durran is just another variation of the monomyth.
So good!
i agree that god's and too much magic can cheapen the story fast. The same happened to me with the lord of the rings... everything became so cheap when you see how the gods can create shit our of singing but almost do nothing to help middle earth against dark lords
Looking forward to the next.
Excellent work, great explanations, a real pleasure to listen to and so filled with knowledge. I loved it.
Thanks so much and thanks for watching!
When you talked about the story of the statue that was brought to life by a kiss I immediately thought of the tale of Galatea and Pygmalion. 😳The former was a statue that its sculpter fell in love with and begged Aphrodite to bring her to life.
You missed that at one point a 'Lady Korra' is mentioned and Korra sounds like Kore so its another maiden ref
Hey thanks! Yeah, I didnt miss that reference... i decided not to include it when i was writing the video. Great job catching it!
Thank you so much for giving us more great content to get us through the long night.
I loved this video thank you for the insight and attention to detail.
Mind blown again 💚🖤💚🖤
How does this foreshadow Tyrion's future? Tyrion dressed in motley? Does that mean he will play the fool for Daenerys'? I am sure Patchface will die probably by trying to save Shireen from Melisandre's fires. But what will happen to Tyrion?
Hi William! I wish I had a solid answer to your question because its a good one. From what I can tell, the author is mostly using this symbolism to inform the reader of the Long Night narrative. Often times this symbolism is dynamic and can move from one character to another depending on the scene. There are other hints of symbolism that I did not show in the video due to time constraints as well. At this time, I don't think the author is informing us of the future with this line of symbolism, but rather of the past. It is quite intriguing that it is laid so thick on Tyrion in particular as a character which is something I may end up diving deeper into. Thank you for watching and thank you for your thoughts!
With all honesty, I never connected Tyrion with the Grey King or Patchface. Yet I have to say it does make a logical bit of sense. Cersei in particular thinks of Tyrion as a fool. And his nickname, Imp, would seem to imply it. Is there more here than we've noticed before?
The acrobatics for one, but I was speaking in the more in the general sense. Tyrion taking the name Hugor Hill for example and watching Lemore bathing then drowning and Lemore saving him for example.
There must be more to the image of Tyrion as a fool though. Let's not forget Mushroom from who the most salacious account of the Dance of Dragons originates. And the other fool whose name I forget who Aegon slays in his effort to conquer Dorne.
Interesting parallels. Thank you for sharing.
I always got more of a cpr vibe from the ironborn drowning and resurrection rather than the red priests kiss of life.
there's a bit of Lovecraft's influence involved in asoif, especially in the iron born.
i have not finished watching this vid yet, but for some reason, i'm reminded of the Unkiss…
The sheer depth and breadth of the worldbuilding in this series never ceases to astonish me
@38:11, Hugor had four-and-forty sons? The same number as Nagga ribs!
You beat me to it!… by two whole years
Such great content! Thanks for such a thought-provoking analysis - I love it!
Crowfoods daughter.... could you give me some insight into your preparation and methods of combing through all the information we have to put together a good video?
Yes, Im actually working on a video about that. Not sure when that one will be out, but you are not the first one to ask. PM me your email on twitter and I can send you what I have scripted so far. Let me know your twitter handle so that I can follow you, otherwise you can send a direct message.
Thank you for this great video. I can't imagine how much time goes into producing something this long and great.
The name Argoth can etymologically be linked to the Old French word argot which is a secret language of thieves and crooks. So the Grey Giant with his Stone skin is literally called a thief.
That’s interesting… might tie into the red wanderer that is also called the thief. That’s the best time to steal a woman when the thief is in the moonmaid.
Thanks for the lovely reminders of all the old myths of our world,and happy festival of the Oak King ( Summer King).
another connection from Helen is, that she kind of was a swan maiden, fathered by the sky and lightning/stormgod zeus, that had taken the appearence of a swan for mating . . . . don't think about it, but it would make her a swan maiden in a sense and it was even rumored, that she hetched from an egg
So if Grey King / Shrouded lord resides in essos currenlty, then how did he also get shipwrecked on the iron islands? And if hes the Fool then why is maidenpool named for the myth? Was he born on the Rhoyne, or near maidenpool or on the iron islands?
Think of the shrouded lord like a spirit, a water spirit in a sense. According to victarion the drowned god is strong in places where many people have drowned. So shipbeaker bay, the rhoyne, the blackwater... ect. The drowning likely occured in the sunset sea, with the resurrection occurring on the iron islands.
@@TheDisputedLands By the way, I love your videos! Ok, so YES, I beleive that a single man on a weirwood boat drowned in a shipwreck on the sunset sea, was resurected on the iron islands (by a woman who may already have lived there and was either a non-human race, or a magic preisess), and he then became the Grey King. My question is, in your opinion, is this the same literal person who generated the myth of the founding of Storms End with Elenei? And is it the same person with the Swann maidens? And the same person on the Rhoyne?
Sometimes when I paint my ice and fire art I take inspiration from these
Great video Crowfoods Daughter!
Another excellent video!
Thank you Oscar! Im glad you watched it!!
Fascinating! I just discovered, ....and love, your channel!
Your daughter does an amazing job!
This was amazing! first vid of yours ive seen. I love ASOIAF, and you are one in a hand full of content creators I can watch. Fantastic research, Great topic! you got a new Sub
You videos are good but it's really creepy that you only call George R R Martin "our writer" makes it sound like a cult
I guess I need to stop making the blood sacrifices then😬. Actually, its really hard for me to pronounce three consecutive "Rs" correctly, so I try to say something else.🙂
what if the wights were looking for thoros if mir
Wow your channel is one my new favs. Great Material.
All the fools in the story die nasty deaths.
Thanks for pointing out all those parallels! You've convinced me!
Hey glad you liked it! Thanks so much for watching!
Im so glad I found this channel. The amoint of care given to getting the details right is incredible.
Glad you enjoy it!
Okay, I had pointed out that finding Robert's daughter had been a parallel to the Tower of Joy, and these are everywhere. Earlier I pointed out that Rhaegar was full of Bloodstone Emporer imagery. Rubies are blood colored. The entire story is an inverse parallel. The "7" Kingdoms aren't 7 anymore. They were conquered by Aegon, making Westeros, the "Sunset" Kingdoms, an empire, or the Sunset Empire, where the bulk of the story of the Long Night is set to take place. During the last Long Night it was the Empire of the Dawn. For generations, a man has sat upon the Iron Throne, but it has been usurped by the new Amethyst Empress, Cercei. Martin has gone on record, stating that there is no singular hero in this. We all keep hanging onto this Azor Ahai prophecy, or Prince that was promised, or dragon having three heads, but what context do we really have to some of those? Jaime is Tyr, the norse god of Justice, who lost his hand to Fenrir, and look at his story arc. He is very centered around justice, and what it means to swear an oath. I brought up Victarian and Saint Florian, and so forth, but in the end, it can be considered a monomyth, but, if a monumental event occurs, there is no singular hero that arises, but many. Go back to Dance, when Bran is looking into the past at the Starks and the witch is sacrificing men. I'm not sure if I believe this is how it will happen, but if... Lady Stoneheart began sacrificing men, then giving them the kiss, they are all the resurrected gray king. I know I had said that a mad wildling might throw Mellisandre into the flames, but it wouldn't affect her. She comes from Asshai, close enough to Lang. The only tower to burn so far is the Tower of the Hand, but we pretty much believe that the Red Keep burns. Okay, now I'm done. Sorry, as you were. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.
This made me think about a few things. Catelyn being given the kiss to arise as Lady Stoneheart being the inverse parallel. Then Victarian being a Saint Florian, accepting the Lord of Light and keeping the Drowned God, but I feel that Mel is the strongest candidate for Euron's bride, and Euron being an inverse Gray King. Mel is going through a hard time right now and the language describing the bride in the Forsaken chapter and Daenerys' visions in the House of the Undying describe a woman of shadow and fire hands. Catelyn is a Tully, and the sigil is a fish, so she is a mermaid. She was fought over by Petyr and Brandon, then betrothed to both Brandon and Ned, two brothers. The Starks are all described as gray everywhere. I think that the Gray King archetype is a king of Winter. Look at how many of the characters are lining up, and the archetype symbolism is putting it on full display. Obviously, Bran will be the new Green King at the end of the Long Night, but the Long Night is the Night's King's to rule, or the Winter King. I kept thinking back to Jon's dreams and how the kings keep telling him that he doesn't belong there, and what I'd commented a week or two ago about the Nightfort with its resembling the House of the Undying, and it has to be the seat that Jon takes. Stannis was going to move there because he displays clear Gray King imagery, but he's not The king. I think that many figures will take up those mantels to give birth to a new string of stories that all take place at once, just like the stories give so many characters burning swords. Jaime has had a dream now of one. Tyrion has just taken on the archetype of The Shrouded Lord and so forth. Rhaegar even gave off Euron vibes at the Battle of the Trident, armored in black with red rubies. If we look at all of the old stories that don't seem to fit a specific timeline, it can be inferred that they all happened simultaneously during the Long Night, and that each character was distinct. So, Euron could be the valonquar that slays Cercei, but maybe not. The foretelling did not say whose younger brother it would be. Euron is portraying the Bloodstone Emporer and is heading for King's Landing. I know a lot of us keep thinking Oldtown, but, Aeron's vision points to King's Landing. He has to slay the amethyst empress and take the tiger woman for his bride.
I can't say that I was entirely convinced of your theory, but you drew on some powerful and subtle connections that I never made (especially since I don't read the books).
You did get me thinking about Elenei and possible in-universe connections to lore. History shows that often, in order to justify actions taken out of love for a woman, it's common to emphasize and/or exaggerate the woman's beauty, like Cleopatra I suppose.
With the few things I know about Elenei, I wonder if she really was a mermaid. And if she wasn't, who were her parents? If they were responsible for the famous storm at her wedding, who could have been powerful enough to cast it?
Does the same magic that killed the Shrouded Lord have anything to do with that event?
Was it Rhoynish magic (associated with water)?
Great video! I'll be watching this one a few times.
So many connections! My head explodes! Thank you!
You're so welcome!
You've been my companion in the past month, your videos are a delight! I've watched several more than once. Thank you for your work in putting all this together, I'm amazed and more than ever in love with ASOIAF, GRRM and the fandom.
Magnificent!!!
Simply brilliant!!
Wait. So are you saying that GRRM originally had the Shrouded Lord to be revealed as the Grey King? What plot significance would this achieve? What would it tell us about plans for the future? Also, since Tyrion did drown and was revived in what way does that change his story arc going forward if he is to be compared to Patchface or Aeron?
Yes. Tyrion would have met the Shrouded Lord, Drowned God entity. The Grey King is cohesive with what we know the Ironborn worship, think of him like a mortal avatar.The Shrouded Lord being the variation told around the area of the sorrows, the magic is all the same. This is the road not taken so the plot significance is minimal to the present storyline and what he was trying to obtain he can do so by other avenues. Thanks for watching!
@@TheDisputedLands Very interesting. Is there a Westeros equivalent avatar? Do you think this was too much for GRRM because it kinda proves the existence of the Gods in his story and he has wanted their existence to be more nebulous?? You theories are so in depth and well researched I can’t get enough. Thank for for the content. Lastly, all of this symbolism and world building is amazing detail that George puts into the narrative but is there a purpose beyond depth of the world? Does it help us predict future events - if we catch the symbolism on first read?
@@judsonbates1359 yes the path of magic was too steep that early on and sets a precedence. I believe by the end of the story the original players in the original long night will play a part in the current events of the series. AA will be reborn inside euron, NN soul may very well be released and the original three eyed crow was likely the brother of AA/Grey King. Im doing a video when house of the dragon airs that will cover the three eyed crow and his original significance.
@@TheDisputedLands so interesting! Is this more nods to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn? I would never have guessed that these God archetypes would play a role in the end game. Thank you so much for the content and responses.
16:06
Daaaaaang. Love it and thank you!
maiden is the wife of stranger?!!!!!!!
Hi there andvthanks for watching! Maiden is more of an archetype... its a way to help us understand the theme of the abducted woman. The aspects of the faith of the seven are meant to be instructive symbolically as well rather than attempting to place them in marital relationships. I would suggest looking at the concept of the triple goddess. The triple goddess has three aspects. Mother maiden and crone. It is the role of the triple goddess to resurrect the horned lord. Mother maiden and crone are three aspects of one diety in a sense.
@@TheDisputedLands
most possibly yes.
but i havent meant literally too. since literally a perpetual maiden wife has a bit of an oxymoronish sound to it.
havent read the books but they were called the seven that is one, or something similar if i am not mistaken.
i just havent realized that those two concepts would work together that much. like the hindu god of creation has knowledge, wisdom, communication personified as a wife, preservation has wealth and resources goddess, and destruction, reconstruction has mother time/raw power.
i am not a hindu so i apolagise if i represent something wrong in advance..
@@ismata3274 glad to hear!
absolutely fantastic! great video!
Wow! Great connections!
Hey Thanks!!
i love it !
beautifully connected
Thank you so much!
Big fan
Excellent! Job well done 👏👏👏 .. I'm loving your choices of topics and discussions on this channel. Thank you for all the work you put into this, it's much appreciated! Hugs & sunshine 🌞 N