El Grande - How to Play 🎲 and Is It a Gem? 💎
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- The multi-award-winning El Grande almost needs no introduction. It's almost thirty years old, and remains to this day the standard to which other area majority games must justify themselves. It's gone in and out of print during that time - a refreshed version is on its way - so if you're a newer hobbyist you might not have had a chance to try it. Find that chance. Even if you end up liking newer stuff more, you should try out the renowned classics so you see how styles have changed over time. And you might just find, like me, that you like that old-school German style more.
00:00 Intro
04:20 How to Play
26:51 Is It a Gem?
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*Heads up!* I made a goof in the playthrough. Starting at 17:23 I make a move as red, and suggest they wouldn't be able to place all five cubes if they picked the king because they only had four. I had forgotten that red was to get three cubes first from their card play. Sorry! Playing multi-handed, it's easy to make mistakes... Thanks to @MrJoelXIII for the catch!
Content like this is so rare in the hobby. 99% of the content is why you should buy the latest game, and how can you pre-order as fast as possible. Such an interesting talk about good games is so fun to listen, thanks. As a constructive criticism, the first section could be much faster, for example showing the whole scoring was overkill IMO. You could do one or two, and say "then you do that for every region".
Thanks! I hear you about the How to Play part. The longer a rules explanation is, the more complicated the game sounds. I don't do a walkthrough of scoring for every game, but did for this one, to hit home with examples of the king bonus and why a player's grande may or may not score. Just my judgment call, maybe it wasn't the right call. Cheers!
Yours is the channel I’ve been looking for! Great depth of commentary and love your perspective on older games. Cardboard Hunter sent me over here from his channel.
He seems to like older games too! Glad to see more people in this space.
In 1999 I discovered modern board games thanks to Catan. A while later I was in a game store and there were so many games that I didn't know which to choose. The probability of buying something bad was high. Then, I remembered that Catan had the logo "Spiel des Jahres" on the box, so I bought the most recent Spiel des Jahres winner. It was Tikal. I was blown away by this game, still one my favourite today. The second game I bought just after that was El Grande (same reason, there was the SdJ logo on the box. I didn't have internet back then to search for games, so this logo was the only reference I could count on). When I opened the box, I thought this game was so beautiful. The map of Spain was gorgeous, the king was such a huge piece (compared to most games at the time with the standard plastic pawn that look like a "ball over a cone").
Today, more than 20 years later, El Grande is still one my favourite game. Of course, this nostalgia and the fact that it was the second game I bought when I was a student with not a lot of money make my judgement totally biased.
Basically I agree 100% with everything you say in the video. I like the game at 5 and at 4. You can play the game on yucata.de and I played a few 2-players game there just to see if it was working, meh, not really. When you play at 5 players the last turn of the game is usually very exciting with some regions where suddenly a lot of cubes are injected.
One strategic advice that I read online a long time ago is that a good way to win at this game is to aim to be second at the scoring in a lot ofregions instead of first in a few regions. I totally agree.
By the way, one thing that I tell people when I explain the game, is that they should be proud of their initial region. They are the Grande of this region, and if someone else comes and tries to take the first place there, they should defend it with honor. This add a very little element of role playing: "you are coming into MY REGION ! How dare you". Always a lot of fun.
Area majority is probably my favorite genre. El Grande is certainly the among the best, but there are several other excellent games: Tammany Hall, Joraku, San Marco (specifically with three players), The King Is Dead.
I agree with the King is dead, great game. You do not expect it just by reading the rules. I have never played the other games you mention, but now I am curious.
Tammany Hall and The King is Dead are indeed great. I've acquired San Marco and Joraku, looking forward to trying them!
I have recently played Joraku. It is indeed great! Definitely will come up in a future video.
Great coverage on one of the purest strategy board games! Thanks Darryl! PS The lighting for your set is awesome!
Looking forward to it!
Wow, you did a fantastic job delving into this game. I am subscribed and looking forward to checking out your other videos. I think I am going to get the new reprint. I watched a few play throughs and I love the interaction that this game promotes.
Great breakdown and insights. Thank you. I'll soon buy the newest edition.
El grande is also one of my favorites. It is not too complex but still loads of depth and strategy. It also has plenty of player interaction without nasty take-that that a lot of the older games have. Hurting the leading player is just a side bonus of taking over a province he had the majority in. The 3 scoring phases also mean that a newer player gets a grasp on how well he is doing, unlike some games that give zero feedback until the end. I dont remember you mentioning it, but it is the only game that won both Spiel des Jahres and Deutscher Spiele Preis. Usually the SdJ goes for lighter games and DSP goes for heavier games, so i dont think it will happen again. At the same time it perfectly proves that this game hits that sweet spot where casual family gamers can still engage with it, while heavier gamers can also enjoy it.
As for player count. Im definitely a "5 is best" person, the game is good enough that it can still be amazing despite being played at 4. The critical difference is that with 5 players, someone HAS to take the intrigue card. It is not very strong for the player himself, but does give him the opportunity to move cubes around. This lets him hurt the leading player, like by putting a ton of cubes of the second strongest player into his home region and making them fight it out. It also makes being last a bit more punishing. You also get a ton of meeples from your supply, and you get to go first next round. With 2 cards left over there is a decent chance you get something decent on top of that. So with 5 you both make being the last player a bit more challenging to time, and forces some attacks on the leading player.
The expansion that gives everyone a personal deck is proof of that. You get a personal deck of cards that determine both your turn order and the action you take. However, the player that plays the highest turnover card must play the king action instead, and the player who plays the lowest card has to take the intrigue card (instead of the card he actually played). While this can be a lot of fun (for example, everyone suddenly plays a very high card and a player is suddenly blocked from taking the action he thought he could take), I think it also proves the developers want someone to do the intrigue action every round.
Great teach and discussion of the game. I have had it on my radar and am really happy their will be a reprint so I can finally try it.
I would be curious how you think Inis and Cyclades compare to El Grande.
I haven't played Inis, and Cyclades not for a long time. They don't feel all that similar to me. Cyclades is definitely more complex, map play is more important, and overall it feels more aggressive to me.
Hi - Such an awesome video and I agree that El Grande is a modern Classic and mother of area control and will remain the same for coming 30 or more years for sure. As part of this series of Old Gems that you are doing, I would sincerely request you to review and do a view of Vikings by Micheal Keisling. Vikings is also a great gem which came in 2005 and is an awesome tile placement game (much better than Cascadia). I am sure once you check out Vikings you will surely make and add the video of it in this series.
Oh, I know of Vikings. 😊 So many great games to do. I still need to try the advanced way. I will add it to the request list. Thanks!
@@BoardGems great - will wait for your video on Vikings 🙂
You should check out Tammany Hall if you never have. I think it rivals El Grande in greatness of area majority games.
Tammany Hall is very good indeed!
Definitely a gem 💎
Can we expect a Side-by-Slide comparison of the versions of El Grande in the near-future perhaps? I'd like to know if the new edition is worth a pickup if I already own the big box. :)
I'd love to provide one, but I'm a bit reluctant to buy it when I already have this older edition and am happy with it! I will do that sometimes, though, like I just ordered the new edition of Black Friday and will do a comparison of that when I get it. So maybe! Not anytime soon though...
Thank you so much for this splendid walktrough video, and commentary after. I have this game but Im sorry to say that I have never played it.
I dont know why but my gaming group usually want to play newer games, and we are usually more than five players.
I agree with you on the appearance of the board, I do like it a lot.
Compared to some of the new board games of today with next to none coulor, almost black and white, that I dont lika at all.
If I may come with one suggestion. Please take away all kinds of background music. Dont get me wrong, I really love most music
and I am a singer myself as well, but it is disturbing when I find myself listening to the music instead of you talking about the game. Perhaps thats only me.
I would like to see the new version of this game and I hope they did a great job and not changed it to much. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the kind words. You aren't the only one to request no music, and in response I have turned down its volume relative to my voice. Maybe it could be turned down more, I'll have to experiment. But I won't remove the music entirely.
As an audio guy, I think using a close mic and more compression would make the voice over more rich and full, and avoid blending with the music too much.
reprint is coming soon. yeeay... can finally own the game.
The whole hidden trackable info problem in this game is kind of overblown. You only have thirty caballeros so if you want to know how many a specific player has in the tower...just glance at the board and count the ones in play, look at their court, look at the supply. Subtract those three from thirty and you know. While that sounds difficult when you read it, there is typically plenty of time between your turns to do so. Typically only one specific player matters when you are worried about it, so it's not like you need to do it for everyone....which would be admittedly tedious. At any rate, like I said...try it sometime. Easier than it sounds to nail the hidden info!
That's true, but I know what anti-HTI people would say: the fact that it's unnecessarily hidden, but trackable, means why even hide it and make people work to figure it out? The answer, that the designers are trying to signal to players not to care too much about this part, is unsatisfactory: some people will care and go through the effort, and some won't, and the people that do have the advantage. At any rate, like almost all games with HTI, it works completely fine with the info out in the open for those who care about that.
in the playthrough, the red could have taken 3 cubes for his initiative card and then place 5 for the king action?
Oh my goodness. You're right... Time for a pinned comment... 🤦🏻♂️
lol theres a reprint? I bought the big box version used last December and thought I got away with a steal!
I think the big box is a good product! It still has that timeless gameplay and the classic Doris Matthäus artwork. The new edition will have new artwork (not impressed by what I've seen) and apparently tweaked rules - so a "refreshed" version. The way I see it, you got the last edition of the original game! The one that won the SdJ and has been renowned for so many years. I'm sure the new edition will have its proponents, but don't worry at all that you're missing out.
@@BoardGems ya I found the early artwork and admittedly I like the older style better so far.
Need to play it more now!
The first expansion is in fact the original game, but for some reason they decided that it would be too complicated por most players at that time. They decided instead to launch the version we know today as El Grande.
That's interesting! I didn't know that. I have heard some people swear by the first expansion. Considering how popular and respected El Grande became, I think with hindsight it was a good decision to simplify/streamline. Though if El Grande was a new game today, most prospective publishers I think would want to keep the complicated version as-is. Development so often these days seems to complexify when it used to simplify.
@@BoardGems the first expansion is in fact a considerably different game, more sophisticated, I dare to say. On another topic, did you ever try Löwenherz? I got a copy last week in mint condition, first print, 1997 (believe it or not) and the game is great but it's good only with 4 players. Not a gateway game, not a family game, it's a gamer's game.
@@rinaldodelucca8073 Yup, that's my understanding too. I own Löwenherz, as well as Domaine, but as-yet unplayed...
Try Al Rashid if you have a chance. Yes, some fonts are too small (or too ornate), and the rulebook is not enough and wrong sometimes but there is a 2.0 version on BGG. It's an interesting game.
Oh god that new board😂
Still a work in progress! But I imagine it’s pretty far along if they chose to share it
@@BoardGems my problem with it is that I doesn’t really feel like a real map. It don’t know why they didn’t just up the contrast slightly and keep the old board.
If this is not a gem I shall totally unsubscribe 😂