My Favourite Game: El Grande
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มี.ค. 2024
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For those who don't know there is a most amazing story behind that "What your brain looks like" clip. The avant garde composer John Cage appeared on the panel show "I've got a secret" to play his piece "Water Walk". The piece involves him turning on and off several radios. Before air this became a demarcation dispute with union members about whether non union personnel could operate electronic equipment on stage. Cage agreed to do the performance but hitting and pushing the radios instead of turning them on and off.
The host asks Cage if it is ok for the audience to laugh. He says it is ok as he considers it preferable to tears.
The whole section of the show is available if you look for Water Walk - it is quite amazing.
I demand to know why I was playing Catan all the time in 1995 when this game was RIGHT THERE?!
I call this The Tragedy of Catan. Imo it's a worse game than Monopoly in the sense that Monopoly's designer(s) were pretty honest about the fact that it's not supposed to be fun.
@@ZovcDrafts I don't know if I'd say it's a worse game - but it is a deeply boring game after a dozen plays.
For lower player counts in this genre we loved The King is Dead. Works great with just two and always comes down to the wire. You can usually pinpoint one move that swayed the final result.
Wasn't The King is Dead one of their games of the year back when it came out? Surely it must count as "One of the Area Majority Games Efka Likes?"
Great to hear. I only get to play 2-player games so El Grande was never really an option. Just got King is Dead and about to try it this week!
Yes, it absolutely does, big apologies to The King is Dead
The King of Siam is also functionally the same game. Same designer. A friend gifted me their copy when they were moving.
Not just functionally, but also the original version of tKiD.
I'm not a traditionalist or a purist by any measure, and tend to agree that newer games often can do something better than older ones, but in this case I'm 100% on board with El Grande as the best Area Majority game. Because it still is.
Out of curiosity, what else would you put in the rank of "Area Majority Game" ? Does something like INIS fall into that category?
Just got this in the mail a few days ago. Now I am even more hyped to stare at it on my shelf.
This comment hit me where it hurt. I have too many games I want to play but they are just sitting on the shelf staring at me. Sad face.
I was really expecting an 'Inis' mention next to Hansa Teutonica, Iwari and Ankh for a pivotal area majority game.
I just don't know how comfortable I am in the idea that Inis is an area majority game.
I was thinking the same! And also wasn’t sure whether Inis was area control or area majority… on one hand, you do occupy the same territories as other players, and want to have the most dudes on them. But on the other hand - you often try to seize total control of these territories, sometimes with force 🤔 It’s an “area contrority” game
Loved this review Efka! The lighting, sound, script (it made me laugh!), and the different components (slow mo, close up shots, etc.)- so good. Great work!
El Grande really did do it best, glad you put it in the spotlight (though no doggo in video so 0/10 don't recommend). As for auction games, I see Ra already got a mention (and I'm sure Modern Art will also get some well-deserved love). But I would like to put in a plug for Neue Heimat/The Estates; every game I play has an emergent narrative with shifting alliances and sudden twists of fate. There really is no game like it. Thanks for all you guys do.
I like Inis a little more, but El Grande is a close second.
Loved the bit about “Mr Farr” and Klinger. My entire knowledge of the city of Toledo comes from that character. A friend’s dad went there and came back with a shirt from Tony Packos Tacos, apparently it’s real!
I thought he said Mr. Fart!
I also loved this reference. Over time the show has drifted away, but boy was it influential. Thanks for bringing it back to mind
Look, the simple fact that Sidereal Confluence was shown in the first frame makes thia video top notch already!
Area Majority seems like a genuinely hard mechanism to do well. The two that I really like in the genre are The King is Dead and Rumble Nation, both have somewhat similar ideas executed super well. Though, maybe they are technically more area control given how the region scoring works.
Got El Grande (Spiel des Jahres 1996, btw) from a second hand shop here in Germany a while ago and have not played it yet.
After this review, I will definitely get it to the table on our next five player boardgame night! Thanks for bringing it back to mind!
El Grande is a great game, but I'm dismayed Tammany Hall didn't make it onto your list of approved area majority games. Love that one.
This is not true, the best game ever made happened when me and my brother were fuckin around with playing cards and out of sheer boredom created the most lavish, intricate and layered game ever made that I forgot the rules of the next day
So, this is just a tribute?
Those are always the best! A buddy of mine created a game where each person gets a pen and a stack of sticky notes, and you doodle something on the sticky note and stick it to the table. And then the other person would have to "beat it". Keep going until someone laughs. That was the entire rule set. If you drew a dude, they'd draw a dude with a sword. Then you drew a dragon, then they drew a wizard, so you draw a wizard shredder (which is like a paper shredder for wizards) so they draw a beaver gnawing through the shredder's power cord, so you draw a flowing stream to distract the beaver and trigger its instincts to build a dam. But then they draw a dam that has been set on fire... and it just kinda escalates into madness until one person laughs...
And then, because we were stupid and inconsiderate teenagers, we would just leave all the sticky notes there on the table so that whomever next came to the library would wonder what the hell just went on.
This isn’t the best game ever made. It’s just the Tribute.
I, too, made the most perfect game ever devized by man but was conveniently high and lost it so that my work could not be scrutinized.
@robertchmielecki2580 that's a matter of opinion
11:45 What happened to The King is Dead?
That game defies genre
Ooooh love the new scene transitions. Very you guys.
After hearing a lot about this for ages, I finally got this reprint and really enjoyed it. Totally understand all the love for it.
I love playing El Grande at meetups/conventions. It’s IMO one of the best non-party icebreakers out there.
Sidereal confluence is my favourite game! Please cover the expansion? (Great review, love your stuff!)
Maybe one day!
Same! Such an amazing game, and so different from everything else out there.
Props for pronouncing Mihály Csíkszentmihályi almost perfectly.
Thx for the great review, I am fond of your humor🤣.What do you think of DEI : Dive et Impera since it's an area majority game too ?
Eloquent, funny and affirming my initial experience after playing this amazingly amazing game just once recently. Many more games of this to follow!
Keep up the spiffingly entertaining and informative work.
This is another great example why publishers should print actual player counts on the box. I got this when i started getting into the hobby and didn't know BGG. I played it two players and then it lay around for a couple of years before i gave it away. I almost didn't even watch this video because i cared so little for this game.
Schadenfreude and tears 😂 Watching here from Germany and I enjoy the way you are presenting that game! Didn’t even know that Schadenfreude seems to be well known in English board game situations 😊
Almost spilled my tea in my lap at the Klinger reference. I'll have to find a way to try out this game, even though the monstrously giant king kinda scares me.
No Ethnos? That's one of our favorite area majority games. So easy to teach, especially since it's easy to capture non-gamers with because you can say "Have you ever played Rummy?". It's Rummy but with fantasy creatures/races that have special powers and a simple area majority game. I guess Iwari is pretty similar, so maybe you just prefer that (it does have a beautiful vibe).
Yeah I much prefer Iwari to Ethnos, but lots of respect for Ethnos (not the theme, though. Who names their game Ethnos? Don't get me started).
I'm super looking forward to this series
Wonderful video!!!! What a great way to explain the idea of a favourite game. And such a great pick!!
I'll definitely add this to my wishlist. Auction games? I love 'em. I really like High Society, Modern Art and For Sale, but don't exclude the power plant auction part of Power Grid that is totally pivotal to player success.
Area majority game I've enjoyed a lot lately is the wonderful Turn Coats. Short sweet and easy to travel with!
My favorite auction game I thiiiink is Tulip Bubble. It's very beige but such a lovely crunchy game!
El Grande is my favourite area majority game. Mission Red Plant comes a close second!
I just discovered "Rumble Nation". It's my new favorite area majority game!
Completely agree with all your points, great video. My top area based games of all time are Ankh, Tigris & Euphrates, El Grande, and Elite 2nd Dawn. If you allow Hansa Teutonica which I like a lot, I’d add Concordia.
Love this video, as always made me both chuckles and gave me the urge to buy, .... and play of course.
Great video! As far as auction games, my pick would be Cyclades. I'd love to try Keyflower, because I suspect I would love that one too.
I just got this game a few weeks ago and I am very excited to get it to the table. Also, The Estates is absolutely the best auction game. Let’s see if Efka agrees when that video eventually drops. I think it was actually this channel that drew my attention to that game in the first place!
Love this kind of positivity. El Grande has been on my wishlist for a few years now but you've really sold me on actually getting a copy.
Now auction games? I'm an absolute hoor for an auction game. Taj Mahal is a fantastic one, as is Modern Art and High Society. Cyclades is one of my favourite area control games even though its really an auction game. Nidavellir did some interesting things with auctions as drafting too. Power grid isn't really an auction game but auctions for plants are pivotal.
I'm guessing your pick will be a classic and pure auction game (so probably a Knizia) probably either Ra or Taj Mahal
El Grande surely is a masterpiece! I loved it when it came out, and I can't wait to play it with my kids, as my parents did with me and my brother! ❤
That’s some pretty great parents right there! 👏🏻
Got a copy for myself and for a friend's Birthday gift! Thanks !
This is my favorite area majority game! I love the new edition and oddly enough 4 is my favorite way to play. I like the options! My favorite auction game is Square on Sale!
Auction beasts:
-The estate
- Keyflower
- modern art
These are my picks too, plus Ra.
@@ScherFire All great aren't they! Though Ra for me, The effect of lucky draw of tiles often turn my table down. Almost impossible to strategize the game.
IMO If the set collection is little easier to teach would be lots more fun for casual tables
Isle of Skye. Does that quality as an auction game?
The John Cage shoutout was an unexpected development to be sure, but a welcome one!
My hope for the auction game episode is that we continue with greats from the 90s and go with Ra.
El Grande is a real timeless pearl
El Grande and Tammany Hall are the only two anyone needs.
Loved this review of Sidelong Transience.
It’s the Cutherburt Humptydink of Tabletop games.
This is about your podcast not this video but “SEA-SPAN” was a severely underrated pun by Elaine 👏👏👏
now i want to know about sidewind conlanguage.
Very much down with this series. Looking forward to more!
Now I want to play Sideburns Conference, it sounds like a wonderful precept for a game. My favorite game is Comic Encumber, is it an area majority game?
great review - and i now have El Grande! Really really good game - thanks Efka
My favorite auction game - tie between Wabash Cannonball and Cyclades, with Keyflower in 3rd
You’re right, hard to claim anybody has improved upon it. One of the few area majority games I have kept in my collection over the years, and I enjoyed it despite mostly playing it at 2 players back in the day, lol
Man, I played El Grande 25 years ago as a teenager with my neighbor. It was already fun then. I should buy the reprint and see how much more I appreciate this game now with all my boardgame experience and knowledge.
One question though: The old box says 6 expansions included. What about the reprint?
Mr Farr dominating Toledo? Had to MASH the like button.
yknow..that tower...they could've made it out of plastic, put some lights on it and had an app interact with it and apparently people would've loved it. Damn, the publisher missed out on an added $50+ per game.. ;)
Great video. I feel like the auction one is going to be the most divisive, as it seems so many people have their passionate favourite (mine being Ra). But then there's also so many games that involve auctions but don't necessarily feel like an auction game (see: Keyflower). That sounds like a tough video to make!! But if anyone can pull it off...
Kudos for putting effort into pronouncing Mihály Csíkszentmihályi's name correctly, you came very close considering how difficult it would be for someone who isn't a native hungarian speaker.
I have a copy from 1996, but this new one is so pretty I might have to get it again
My favourite area majority game is also my favourite auction game: Merchants of Amsterdam. It uses a Dutch auction system with a timer bringing the price down until someone slams the timer. You're figuring for area majority in 2 locations and on a goods track. It's built around the history of 17th century Dutch colonialism which is interesting, if not totally unproblematic.
Fantastic video. I hadn’t seen your channel before, but it reminds me of SUSD, so that’s a subscribe from me!
On another note, have you played Dogs of War? What are your thoughts on it? Your explanation of El Grande reminded me of it a lot.
It's going to be knizia for auction games. Modern art or Ra are my predictions lol
Interesting that you're focusing on area majority games. I have to admit, those usually don't connect with me. I am inspired by your energy and passion for El Grande though, and really appreciate your overview of what makes it great. I will take your advice and look to play it at least once!
For auction games, which also aren't my favorite, I've really enjoyed playing Amun-Re and Vegas Showdown. Both (coincidentally? are older games) that use auctions that pit your wagers against other players and force you to change your bids, while also having other game mechanics like tile laying to keep it interesting/challenging.
Great video overall!
Seems like the subscriber counts has gone up ~20k since I last paid attention. Nice!
Best Ernie Kovacs Intro Yet!
Video skills continue to evolve!
And Answer: Klinger went as far as marriage to that beautiful Asian girl and stayed in Korea!
Nice twist flavor from the usual
Programming ...well done Efka
Love this idea for a video - definitely a game that needs celebrating. Wonderful example of that German feeling Euro with little overt conflict yet so much player interaction. Almost perfect game pacing as well 😊
Without a doubt, **Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock** stands as the ultimate game ever conceived!
I wholeheartedly agree with you, *El Grande* is the best area majority game. Speaking of auction games, mine is *Ra* (another oldie but a goodie).
My favorit auction game... Rising Sun (But the main mechanism is area control, but who controls the area is decided by an action... uh), Ra and You are Bluffing.
When it comes to Area Control I am suprised by your selection and the general popularity of El Grande.
It was too swingy for me. You mentioned how it is unpredictable and that even the players themselves want to be unpredictable. I think that leaves you with a very tactical and swingy game where opportunities are formed by the action cards which are revealed every round.
I prefer strategic games where you must think about longterm consequences and weight them against short term opportunities. Therefore I like Hansa Teutonica where you must decide when to stop upgrading your abilities and when to start building your network or Blood Rage where you have a strategic draft which determins your opportunities in the thactical area control phase. I also like the mild negotiation which is introduced in Rising Sun.
Hot take: Is El Grande not an auction game too? You have your cards from 1-13 which you us too bid on the right of action selection and this is crucial. So determining within this auction how important it is is to have a high bid or to fill up your caballeros is key to this game. Therefore an auction mechanism is key to this game similar to Rurik.
Second Hot take: Is the Area Majority mechanism presented in this game not also an auction. Players are using action cards to bid on different victory point generators and how these victory point generators are geographically connected is not so important in this game. In games like Bloodrage, Rsing Sun and Ankh the distribution and placement of your troops is way more important. The geography of El Grande does not play a significant role?
Another way too long commentary. Actually I like your content I hope my comments do not appear to be too rude. Thank You
Please see a previous comment under this video that asks: how long until the "every game is an auction game" argument 😉
Maybe it is just me but I don't see Hansa Teutonica as area majority, since it is so often position that breaks ties and actually controlling cities is just one way to score points.
In terms of auction games, I think The Estates and High Society are so good but for different reasons. High Society is so simple pure, like dancing on a razor's edge, and The Estates is such hellish mechanism, an utter meatgrinder of a game where the winning move might actually be not to play i.e. not own a construction company.
I miss the cubes :) The only area majority I've played a lot of is Blue Moon City, I think that counts as the same sort of game mechanism. I never managed to find enough players for El Grande but I still think it was a good purchase somehow. Thankfully I didn't make too many of these kinds of good purchases without getting to play.
I never expected a M*A*S*H reference from NPI! So much fun! And it is a fantastic game. Thanks!
love the use of John Cage
Great video, where can I buy it? 😮😢
El Grande is a game that, while I personally don't enjoy playing it, I can absolutely understand why people love it as much as they do. Excellent video as always.
My favourite area majority game is Lords of Xidit, this does look pretty cool though.
So, what happens if we blend them together and get El Sidereal Grande?
The King is Dead and Dual Powers for lower player counts. And always loved Ra for auctions. I especially appreciate knowing what the bidding is instead of just randomly choosing amounts
i had heard of this game but never seen it played untill last week on no rolls bard. now i'm obsessed, I'm ashamed as a board game nerd to have not known about this old gem.
My game group played this for the first time this past weekend and it was an total hit.
I won, but the way...just in case you were wondering...I don't win a lot...but I did.
Smallworld and The King is Dead 2e are fun area majorities as well
Small World is area control. Two players cannot share an area in the game.
El Grande uses area influence (which is slightly different from area majority). Players are sharing the region, and the player with the most proportional influence (which may not actually be a majority) gains benefits.
Would Battle for Rokugan count as a majority control game? Played a few games of that and enjoyed it.
Your favorite Auction games? Will you go for the intricacy of "RA"? The multi-auction complexity of "Modern Art"? The push-pull of "For Sale"? Or perhaps a more recent game like "Nidavellir"? Personally Auction games are not my Marmalade, but I do have one that I enjoy above others: "High Society". It is just an auction game, where everyone starts with the same money, and the same goal. The twists are, no making change, there are negative point objects in the auction, the auction can end at any time, and whoever spent the most money in the end loses.
Curious if you played DEI? A newer popular area majorities game.
Good choice!
Speaking of reprints of old classics, my all time favorite game is Dune, a game of conquest, diplomacy and betrayal.
I picked up a copy of RUMBLE NATION DELUXE and it's scratching that El Grande itch but in tiny tiny tight fun form. 2-4p, 25-30m. Also does Inis count? Those would be my only arguments for games outside your Good Area Majority Games list that are not already in it. Still countable on one hand!
I haven't gotten to play el grande yet but I'm looking forward to playing it when I can.
My favorite area control game is: Battle for Rokugon
Favorite auction game: The estates
Loving this series already. If we are looking at auction games I'll bet a like and comment that it's a Reiner Knizia game. Modern Art if you prefer simple and Ra if you want a game that makes you go RAwr with good times.
I will never turn down a game of El Grande, even if it's the old printing
Rattus is a fantastic area majority game.
Reiner Knizia has to win for top auction game. One of his 50 auction games must win
Play Tikal too
But I still share more love to El Grande
To respond to the question you posed to viewers: Mexica (Wolfgang Kramer was again involved as co-designer) and Tammany Hall (clearly inspired by El Grande) are two more of my favorites, but you're right: very few live up to El Grande.
yes...mexica, especially the most recent edition with the temples made from space rock, is a great area majority game!
1) Goa (probably still the best auction/bidding game)
2) Genoa (has that social aspect, you seem to like..)
3) Ra (well it's Ra)
Excellent.
I'd bet that your choice for auction game is Modern Art
Alien Frontiers might not be the best area majority game, I wouldn't know, because I haven't played all of them. But it's the one I have played the most, and I like it.
And your favourite auction game is definitely either Ra (if it counts) or Modern Art. Reiner Knizia just nails that crunchy feeling of "I have no idea what I just did to the game", and I love it and you love it. What's not to love?
My favorite auction game, and I’m going to guess yours too, is the sublime and classic Ra