Hmm ok but I’ll stick my original opinion that it’ll took better (mainly because it’ll be bigger) on a proper screen than a phone. You guys don’t have to argue everything you know, that’s a pretty basic good recommendation
I was abut to give up on S log 3 for video (photos are spectacular with it) till I watched this and tried the free LUTs in the description. Suddenly my test footage was EXACTLY what it should look like! Thats with no additional effort. Using the 4 node method from scratch I would be happy to do but I just don't have the time and skills to get it right. These LUTs made it instant and satisfying so thank you!
You'r e awesome lol. I shoot with a log profile for photos too LOL. I have my own custom created luts that I made off them and works in videos too. I didn't know anyone else shot log in photos
@@mediaflmcreation How can anyone not? I use ON1 to grade which I find easier than Photoshop, which i cannot figure out. At least the version I tried years ago. On1 applies a LUT out of the gate but you have way more room to adjust with a log or better, RAW photo. Using N raw now.
Excellent comparison. I recently pre-ordered the A7iv, so I'm looking forward to shooting with S-Cinetone and S-Log3. Thanks for sharing your workflow when using both profiles.
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff From what I've seen from some of those who have tested the preproduction model it looks pretty good. I'm glad Sony finally came around to making a 10-bit camera that wasn't priced out of my range. Of course, I'd prefer the A7Siii or the FX3. But, I think the A7iv will be a great compromise.
I think S Cinetone is a big move up from the STD 5 Rec709 found in Sony video cameras , I used it for a broadcast doc , which did have a grade , but I heard the commissioning editor mentioned the colors more than once .. it was the first time the director , post house , or Com editor at worked with S Cinetone , I think it will catch on and become the default for anything non Slog3
You do realize that you can set S-log3 in gamma and have S-Cinetone in color mode right? It'll give you the regular dynamic range of S Log3 but with the saturation base points of S-Cinetone. All the latitude for grading plus "better" colors for people's faces if you prefer it. I personally love this combo, try it out that's been a fun option I've been using lately.
Nice video. That "flattering look" of s-log in skintones, totally, skin is translucent therefore doesn't have those strong highlights otherwise it looks plasticky, is more evident in closeups, but the same with color profile, that saturated stains in the skin aren't realistic, sure they are real but seems like they also lack the depth of natural translucency.
I've spent the time but didn't learn practical stuff, came out confused. Where and when to use which, what settings to use etc. Plus it's very difficult to see what you see and tell. Must be my eyes.
7:37 ... it's totally usable footage in the real world. It's all about creativity in the end. I personally love that shadowy look you got on that sample shot and great high key dramatic like shot. Yea yea it's a little dark but used wisely and made a tiny every so itsy bitsy splash of light, it will look fantastic.
S-cinetone is certainly useful when you don't want or can't spend a lot of time in post production, but the results of processing a sLog3 as you have shown are much superior. Has the problem of autofocus with face detection been solved? With the sony a73 face detection is not active when the camera is connected to an external monitor. Is this problem also present on the a7s3?
its funny, Harv, in the long scenes of you looking into the camera for the (impressive) exposure for skin tones, your goodness really shines through and it makes me confident that your friends, which you probably have a lot of, must see this too.
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
Hello everyone! Unfortunately, there are some misunderstandings or too little information about what S-Cinetone really is. (Even Sony says relatively little about this...). First, every cine- gamma should be corrected, because every cine gamma curve (Cine1,2,34 and S-Cintone) is a cine gamma, others as the the TV standard gamma, the Rec.709. Every cine gamma curve is a compromise so that you can show more dynamics or levels on the TV screen (PC Display etc) at the end. That's why S-Cinetone has a so matt colors and has relatively little contrast, because has a cine gamma, a kind of a light version of Slog. As is well known, every S-LOG recording must be corrected in order for it to look normal contrast and colors on a TV or PC display. That's why I always use the Leeming correction Lut for the S-Cinetone recording so that the brightness and contrast look normal like the Rec.709 standard at first, then will be the dull, flat colors are corrected or adjusted also with the Leeming Lut. Such a S-Cinetone recording, corrected with Leeming Lut, looks much better than a "raw" one uncorrected S-Cinetone recording. See an example of mine, more contrast and more vivid colors with the Leeming Lut. th-cam.com/video/34QPiZLKLaI/w-d-xo.html Conclusion: S-Cinetone is very good but is one of those cakes that isn't quite baked yet. The Leeming LUT is very good and necessary when you want use the S-Cinetone PP. It cost only about 40 Dollar. The best and cheapest Investment for Sony user! This is my honest opinion, I dont´ get money from Paul Leeming.
Thank you very much for giving this beautiful explanation. I have a question, please, that is, is it possible to make beautiful adjustments to the video clip in s-cinetone format, such as the one used in the case of slog3?
For what reason, in the davinci resolve program, when opening the file it only recognizes the audio, but in adobe premier it recognizes the audio and the image?
Very good video! We use an A7sIII as main camera and 2 A7III’s for the second shooter at weddings. Which PP’s do you recommend to use on them so it’s easy to color grade in post?
Hey Harv . Thanks for this . Would I get more colour range using 10 bit in S- cinetone . I am looking for a quick editing profile with the ability to push the occasional footage ? Thanks
There’s a good reason for this, I did so much hunting around for this info but couldn’t find a definitive answer anywhere. You’d think it would be on Sony’s picture profile info page...but alas 🤷🏻♂️
Because it really looks so much sharper and contrasty! can you please make a video where you try to grade s-cinetone in a way that it almost looks like slog3 graded? especially bring the whites down and make more pleasing highlight-rolloff and smoother skin. Shooting s-cinetone is so much easier, I would be very interested to see how close you can get to an graded slog3 image. please showcase it with a headshot like in this video
I don't speak English, but is it still necessary to overexpose 2 steps in slog3 with the a7siii or is it no longer necessary? greetings from Argentina!
Wait is that a KAFT beanie? The one I'm wearing right now? As I live and breathe! As a Turkish person, I feel awkward to see a Turkish brand I thought was a relatively niche one is actually adopted well worldwide.
Definitely S-cinetone. I know tons of people like me are more than fed up dealing with green/yellowish typical sony skin tone in post every single time.
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff That is relatively true. The greenish/yellowish skintone problems was quite dominant on older clips I shot with my A7R4 and A7III. I do have myself an a7m4 now and started to use things like colorchecker, and other calibration tools together to minimize the chance that I ended up capturing footage that gives me nightmare to correct later and it worked really well. But at the end of the day I just fully switched to using my Canon R5/R6s because it is just much more lighter workflow. For their system all I need to do is have the color space set right. Canon's official LUT just made everything fall into places spot on on the vector scope. All I need to do is to make proxies for edits, or taking work arounds against overheating during the shoot. I do miss all the GM primes I own though. RF mount really lacks that.
@7:39: I assume that your last slog3 "in between exposure setting" (between the highlight of the back window and the correct face exposure) was like 1-2 stops above the target face exposure and then pulled down in post. The slog3 skin colors here do not look very pleasing here. I guess that's just the disadvantage of non-linear profiles which have less data and more visible artifacts in post which destroy some of the nice skin tonalities. If the result can not be improved in post without making it even worse on skin tones I would simply accept some blown out highlights when people are the focus of a video clip.
Enjoy guys! This video is definitely better viewed on a proper screen, s-cinetone looks kind of odd on a phone.
Depends what phone. The Sony Xperia 1 line is calibrated to be good enough as a reference screen.
Hmm ok but I’ll stick my original opinion that it’ll took better (mainly because it’ll be bigger) on a proper screen than a phone. You guys don’t have to argue everything you know, that’s a pretty basic good recommendation
Understood. I had the same problem. Sony told me 8.5 stops. I just don’t understand the big secret 😂
I was abut to give up on S log 3 for video (photos are spectacular with it) till I watched this and tried the free LUTs in the description. Suddenly my test footage was EXACTLY what it should look like! Thats with no additional effort. Using the 4 node method from scratch I would be happy to do but I just don't have the time and skills to get it right. These LUTs made it instant and satisfying so thank you!
You'r e awesome lol. I shoot with a log profile for photos too LOL. I have my own custom created luts that I made off them and works in videos too. I didn't know anyone else shot log in photos
@@mediaflmcreation How can anyone not? I use ON1 to grade which I find easier than Photoshop, which i cannot figure out. At least the version I tried years ago.
On1 applies a LUT out of the gate but you have way more room to adjust with a log or better, RAW photo. Using N raw now.
I love this.
Thank you man, you've answered my questions
Great comparison Harv! That answers a lot of questions I had after upgrading the firmware on my A7S iii. Thanks a lot and cheers from Germany
Just getting my first DSRL for video and this helped a lot. Thanks.
Excellent comparison. I recently pre-ordered the A7iv, so I'm looking forward to shooting with S-Cinetone and S-Log3. Thanks for sharing your workflow when using both profiles.
You’re welcome! I also have a preorder for the a7iv. Hoping the colour matches well with the a7s3 😅
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff From what I've seen from some of those who have tested the preproduction model it looks pretty good. I'm glad Sony finally came around to making a 10-bit camera that wasn't priced out of my range. Of course, I'd prefer the A7Siii or the FX3. But, I think the A7iv will be a great compromise.
So excited! Can’t wait 😛
Nice grading at 8:47 when it goes from a grey British day to a Bond scene ☺️👌
Great analysis. Terrific testing. Thanks!
I think S Cinetone is a big move up from the STD 5 Rec709 found in Sony video cameras , I used it for a broadcast doc , which did have a grade , but I heard the commissioning editor mentioned the colors more than once .. it was the first time the director , post house , or Com editor at worked with S Cinetone , I think it will catch on and become the default for anything non Slog3
what is the difference between s-cinetone and the standard profile. what are the advantages of s-cinetone?
You do realize that you can set S-log3 in gamma and have S-Cinetone in color mode right? It'll give you the regular dynamic range of S Log3 but with the saturation base points of S-Cinetone. All the latitude for grading plus "better" colors for people's faces if you prefer it. I personally love this combo, try it out that's been a fun option I've been using lately.
Yes I do realise this, I’ve been using this combo recently 👍🏻 video coming soon on this subject
Well done, Harv!
Such a great video! Thank you for this. Subbed!
Thanks Harv. Good work!
This is a wonderful video. Very clear, awesome examples, shows what real world use is going to be.
Cool video, thanks for the comparisons Harv. Would actually be interested to see how S-Cinetone compares to having no Picture Profile at all.
Challenge accepted :)
Nice video. That "flattering look" of s-log in skintones, totally, skin is translucent therefore doesn't have those strong highlights otherwise it looks plasticky, is more evident in closeups, but the same with color profile, that saturated stains in the skin aren't realistic, sure they are real but seems like they also lack the depth of natural translucency.
I've spent the time but didn't learn practical stuff, came out confused.
Where and when to use which, what settings to use etc. Plus it's very difficult to see what you see and tell. Must be my eyes.
7:37 ... it's totally usable footage in the real world. It's all about creativity in the end. I personally love that shadowy look you got on that sample shot and great high key dramatic like shot. Yea yea it's a little dark but used wisely and made a tiny every so itsy bitsy splash of light, it will look fantastic.
Very helpful. Thank you!
S-cinetone is certainly useful when you don't want or can't spend a lot of time in post production, but the results of processing a sLog3 as you have shown are much superior. Has the problem of autofocus with face detection been solved? With the sony a73 face detection is not active when the camera is connected to an external monitor. Is this problem also present on the a7s3?
Yes that problem is fixed with A7S3.
@@jonpurkis Thanks!
Thank you for this wonderfully informative video! So helpful.
I keep struggling with this decision too. I am not alone!
Wonder what it looks like using slog 3 with s cinetone color mode. Bout to try it
its funny, Harv, in the long scenes of you looking into the camera for the (impressive) exposure for skin tones, your goodness really shines through and it makes me confident that your friends, which you probably have a lot of, must see this too.
Many thanks for your kind words, means a lot to me. Ha ha not as many friends as I’d like, I’m actually quite an introvert
excellent video!!!!! Thanks for sharing and your work!!!!l Blessings!!!!!!
Enjoyed it, thanks!
Tnx! Very good content for videographers!
I have an a7s3 and my main complaint about slog3 is how impractical the iso range is. If I want anything above 640, I need to jump to 12800, which causes a significant colour shift and makes skin tones look unnatural. It’s fine for event shooting, but not for commercial work. I’m curious if cinetone is better for those situations where you need iso 2000-6400? If not, canon cameras seem to be more practical for most shooting situations. No one seems to be talking about this.
Do you have an answer?
I cannot find the setting for S-Cinetone on Sony FX-6. Where is it???
What’s your audio setup like? Sounds pretty great!
Many thanks, I did a vid about this th-cam.com/video/XOcaEl27_Zg/w-d-xo.html it’s a little old now but basically the same setup 👍🏻
Great video!! Thank you
Great clip bro.
I'll probably use S-cinetone for translations (when using my a7s III as a webcam)... for all other things Slog-3 is always better.
Thanks Harv!
Great video. The slog3 DR test was impressive! I can tell you REALLY understand your exposure, WB and gamma curves. Awesome job!
Hello everyone!
Unfortunately, there are some misunderstandings or too little information about what S-Cinetone really is. (Even Sony says relatively little about this...). First, every cine- gamma should be corrected, because every cine gamma curve (Cine1,2,34 and S-Cintone) is a cine gamma, others as the the TV standard gamma, the Rec.709. Every cine gamma curve is a compromise so that you can show more dynamics or levels on the TV screen (PC Display etc) at the end. That's why S-Cinetone has a so matt colors and has relatively little contrast, because has a cine gamma, a kind of a light version of Slog. As is well known, every S-LOG recording must be corrected in order for it to look normal contrast and colors on a TV or PC display. That's why I always use the Leeming correction Lut for the S-Cinetone recording so that the brightness and contrast look normal like the Rec.709 standard at first, then will be the dull, flat colors are corrected or adjusted also with the Leeming Lut. Such a S-Cinetone recording, corrected with Leeming Lut, looks much better than a "raw" one uncorrected S-Cinetone recording. See an example of mine, more contrast and more vivid colors with the Leeming Lut. th-cam.com/video/34QPiZLKLaI/w-d-xo.html
Conclusion: S-Cinetone is very good but is one of those cakes that isn't quite baked yet. The Leeming LUT is very good and necessary when you want use the S-Cinetone PP. It cost only about 40 Dollar. The best and cheapest Investment for Sony user! This is my honest opinion, I dont´ get money from Paul Leeming.
Thank you very much for giving this beautiful explanation. I have a question, please, that is, is it possible to make beautiful adjustments to the video clip in s-cinetone format, such as the one used in the case of slog3?
i shoot real estate and i need DR so slog3 it is. Thanks for the video. Excellent.
For what reason, in the davinci resolve program, when opening the file it only recognizes the audio, but in adobe premier it recognizes the audio and the image?
Hmm I wish I could help but unfortunately I don’t use resolve 😕
*Whats the best in camera settings for lessening red skin?* I don’t have a colour chart and don’t know or have much time to edit.
Thank you for video. What would be a zebra settings for skin tone and a grey card whey shooting S Cinetone?
Very good video! We use an A7sIII as main camera and 2 A7III’s for the second shooter at weddings. Which PP’s do you recommend to use on them so it’s easy to color grade in post?
Hey , which lense have you used to film this video?
Ah it was the song 20mm f1.8 for the main shot, I reviewed it not too long ago 😄
Hey Harv . Thanks for this . Would I get more colour range using 10 bit in S- cinetone . I am looking for a quick editing profile with the ability to push the occasional footage ? Thanks
Thanks ,and wonder that,do you apply sharpness to Slog3 footage in post? Cause in slog3, it is -7 in default
I never do 😄 to my eye -7 looks ‘normal’, I find anything more than that looks odd/unnatural. I hope this helps 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff i see,ok ,thanks🙂🙏🏻
So how many stops of dynamic range does Cinetone actually have compared to Slog.
This was not mentioned in you video.
Thanks
There’s a good reason for this, I did so much hunting around for this info but couldn’t find a definitive answer anywhere. You’d think it would be on Sony’s picture profile info page...but alas 🤷🏻♂️
What is a linear lut? Where do I get it?
Ah it’s linear gamma rather than a LUT, s-cinetone for example 👍🏻
This was very useful, could you pls tell me what metering mode did use?
What was the picture profile settings you configured for slog 3?
Slog 3 with s cinetone colour?
Could you make video on how to shoot in slog3 incl your post processing?
Coming soon 👍🏻
8:40 man, what exact setting did u apply for those cinema bars? it looks awesome!
Many thanks, it’s just the 2.35:1 setting with the widescreen plugin in final cut 👍🏻
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff Do you also colorgrade in final cut?
Yep, everything in fcp 👍🏻
Hey, finally got my M1 Max and with fcp now researching the widescreen plugin, is it paid or free? where do i find it?
what lens did you use for this video ?
For the main angle the Sony 20mm f1.8, the for test shots I think it was the sigma 50mm art 👍🏻
Cat you jist use slog3 with s cinetone color mode?
Yes you can indeed, I may do a video about this 👍🏻
have you set the sharpness to -7 in the s-cinetone profile as it is in slog3 by default before you shoot the video??
Of course!
Because it really looks so much sharper and contrasty! can you please make a video where you try to grade s-cinetone in a way that it almost looks like slog3 graded? especially bring the whites down and make more pleasing highlight-rolloff and smoother skin. Shooting s-cinetone is so much easier, I would be very interested to see how close you can get to an graded slog3 image. please showcase it with a headshot like in this video
I don't speak English, but is it still necessary to overexpose 2 steps in slog3 with the a7siii or is it no longer necessary? greetings from Argentina!
How is the HLG on the a7siii compared to these profiles?
No real point in hlg on the a7siii from my experience
For me slog 3 with Arri Phantom lut best choice.
Wait is that a KAFT beanie? The one I'm wearing right now? As I live and breathe! As a Turkish person, I feel awkward to see a Turkish brand I thought was a relatively niche one is actually adopted well worldwide.
Definitely S-cinetone. I know tons of people like me are more than fed up dealing with green/yellowish typical sony skin tone in post every single time.
Hmm maybe from the old alpha line but not the new ones
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff That is relatively true. The greenish/yellowish skintone problems was quite dominant on older clips I shot with my A7R4 and A7III. I do have myself an a7m4 now and started to use things like colorchecker, and other calibration tools together to minimize the chance that I ended up capturing footage that gives me nightmare to correct later and it worked really well.
But at the end of the day I just fully switched to using my Canon R5/R6s because it is just much more lighter workflow. For their system all I need to do is have the color space set right. Canon's official LUT just made everything fall into places spot on on the vector scope. All I need to do is to make proxies for edits, or taking work arounds against overheating during the shoot. I do miss all the GM primes I own though. RF mount really lacks that.
Did you say Cinefour?
@7:39: I assume that your last slog3 "in between exposure setting" (between the highlight of the back window and the correct face exposure) was like 1-2 stops above the target face exposure and then pulled down in post. The slog3 skin colors here do not look very pleasing here. I guess that's just the disadvantage of non-linear profiles which have less data and more visible artifacts in post which destroy some of the nice skin tonalities. If the result can not be improved in post without making it even worse on skin tones I would simply accept some blown out highlights when people are the focus of a video clip.
I kinda like hlg3 the most :)
Me too dude!
Fire
Slog without a doubt is best for maximizing dynamic range, but skintones look plasticky compared to s cinetone
I actually thought ‘flattering’ rather than plasticky 😂
I like you very much, please never stop
👏👏👏
I don't even have this camera😅
0:48