ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Populism is on an upsurge across the world. It is a danger to democracy and civilisation. But what does that term even mean?
Welcome to Episode 42 of Everything is Everything, a weekly podcast hosted by Amit Varma and Ajay Shah.
In this episode, Amit and Ajay break down what political scientists mean by 'populism' -- it's isn't simply what is popular! They discuss the populist playbook as laid out by Jan-Werner Muller in his great book 'What is Populism?' You might find it sounds familar, no matter where you are. Ajay then shares his insights from four countries where he has followed populism closely -- one of which holds out hope for redemption.
Oh, and Amit's newsletter is furiously active again, so do read and subscribe at indiauncut.substack.com/
If you like watching Everything is Everything, please like, subscribe, share, comment. :)
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Packaging
00:13 Introduction: 'I'm just a clueless economist!'
04:22 Chapter 1: The Populist Playbook
15:40 Chapter 2: Left-Wing Populism, Right-Wing Populism: Same Difference
23:36 Chapter 3: How Populists Consolidate Power
29:30 Chapter 4: Populism in the USA
38:52 Chapter 5: Populism in Israel
46:36 Chapter 6: Populism in Hungary
49:52 Chapter 7: Redemption in Poland
1:00:16 Chapter 8: The Role of Social Media
1:05:39 Chapter 9: Ajay's Recco
1:06:30 Chapter 10: Amit's Recco
USEFUL RESOURCES:
1. Amit on Twitter: / amitvarma
2. Ajay on Twitter: / ajay_shah
3. The Seen and the Unseen -- Amit's audio podcast: seenunseen.in/
(Also on all podcast apps. And TH-cam, though less than 1% of listens come from here: / @theseenandtheunseen )
4. Ajay's organisation, XKDR Forum, on TH-cam: / @xkdr
5. In Service of the Republic -- Vijay Kelkar and Ajay Shah: amzn.eu/d/hwGILb3
6. The Art of Clear Writing -- Amit's writing course: indiauncut.com/clear-writing/
7. The India Uncut Newsletter -- Amit's newsletter at indiauncut.substack.com/
8. The Brave New Future of Electricity -- Episode 40 of Everything is Everything: • The Brave New Future o...
9. Words -- Bee Gees: • Words
10. What Is Populism? -- Jan-Werner Müller: amzn.in/d/4KXvLzH
11. Amit's column on Muller's book (2017): indiauncut.com/why-both-modi-...
12. Amit's column on Trump's simplistic stories (2016): indiauncut.com/facts-dont-mat...
13. Fixing the Knowledge Society -- Episode 24 of Everything is Everything: • Fixing the Knowledge S...
14. Republic -- Plato: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...)
15. Public Choice Theory Explains SO MUCH -- Episode 33 of Everything is Everything: • Public Choice Theory E...
16. Freedom House: freedomhouse.org/
17. V-Dem: v-dem.net/
18. Private Truths, Public Lies -- Timur Kuran: amzn.in/d/1uIz9z7
19. The Median Voter Theorem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_...
20. The Beauty and the Beast -- The 1991 animated film: www.hotstar.com/in/movies/bea...
21. On Tyranny -- Timothy Snyder: amzn.in/d/e95JRhg
22. On Tyranny -- The graphic edition by Timothy Snyder and Nora Krug: amzn.in/d/3ujGvUU
23. Essays -- George Orwell: amzn.in/d/brZeOFf
24. 1984 -- George Orwell: amzn.in/d/a3KZSLX
25. Animal Farm -- George Orwell: amzn.in/d/bl3MLdB
26. Lord of the Flies -- William Golding: amzn.in/d/aBC4H9t
Produced by Amit Varma
Shot by Vaishnav Vyas and Nomsita MS Haritashya: / vaishnav.vyas
Edited by Nomsita MS Haritashya: / nomsitaharitashya
Thanks to Gaurav Chintamani for helping with sound: / gaurav_chintamani
Chapter images & additional illustrations by Simahina: / i_am_simahina
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If there can be a masterclass of reading between lines or subtlety, this is it. Nothing is explicit, it's viewer prerogative. Wonderful once again. Now I am in jeopardy, whether to share it with ostriches who acts like nothing has happened OR let it be a hidden gem of internet. Choosing to do the later. Already minds are made.
An everyday dilemma when there's scarcity of sincerity. It does make personal sense to remain in the passively independent quadrant of conformism. In the short term at least.
You read my mind so brilliantly!!
My mom used to have this joke. Context: corporal punishment was perfectly OK in my time. Anyway, here goes :
A mom comes to the class teacher with her son, who is transferred from another school
"This is my son. He's very sensitive. So please don't punish him"
"But if he does something wrong?"
"just slap the boy sitting next to him. He'll get the message"
I hope he gets the message.
Bravo gentlemen! A master class in how to talk about the 800 pound gorilla in the room that is stomping upon you without talking about said gorilla. Bravo!!! You get the Oscar for subtlety.
You mean the 1.4 billion strong gorilla in the room?
No. The gorilla that is stomping on the 1.4B unbeknownst to most of them.
Samajhdar ko ishaara kaafi hai, baaki idhar to poori playbook de di hai. Great compilation in the nick of time
I think your initial discussion misses an important aspect of modern populism: its promise of agency. All the other seemingly toxic traits of populism make sense only in the context of its promise of agency to those whose lives have been irrevocably altered by factors outside their control. Its the promise of agency (take back control, MAGA etc) that fuels the hatred and the desire to close oneself from the world.
This is a great, subtle point. Thanks.
Excellent point. We must also be careful to not deny the initial grievance of those whose agency has been lost. Of course, the populist may do little to nothing to alleviate the suffering of the disenfranchised.
Why is there no heterodoxy in the comments? Everybody agrees on everything. Is there no dissent? :P But I was expecting Amit to push back against Ajay vis-a-vis the US and talk about the "level playing field concerning the republicans" now, with Democrats trying to remove Trump from the ballot. And also how the FBI is used against him. They didn't not-listen to him, out of the niceness of their heart. They were simply on the other side. There is a reason Trump resonates with a section of Americans. And the one flaw I found in this episode is that it lacked a rigorous purva-paksha (steelmanning) of the "reactive" part of populism. What are they reacting to?
I also have some other thoughts about cycles a society goes through, a cycle of politicisation and de-politicisation over decades, and that we are currently in the thick of the politicisation end of it. It is as inevitable as night following the day. What we can do, however, is create more equitable institutions during the depoliticized cycle where a maximum number of people have a say and have a stake in how they are governed. The more inclusive our institutions are during the good times (depoliticized), the less severe will be the backlash during the bad times (politicised).
Separately, we should create a Reddit thread for each episode so that we can freely discuss stuff out there. TH-cam is too conservative in allowing free speech.
Just got to this one and then read the comments on subtlety. Full marks.
The very fact that you felt the need to be this subtle, speaks volumes.
This episode was a masterclass in subtlety. I see you, Amit and Ajay, I see you.
hello friend, nice to see you here.
Guys, thank you so much for every single one of these episodes. The Fridays of my life can be divided into two, one before EIE and one after EIE, and the ones after EIE are so much better !
What is your EiE number (a real number >= 0, the number of seconds viewed by you divided by the number of seconds of the material that exists).
@@ajayshah5705 it would def be greater than 1 for me since I have seen many episodes more than once .
If you have some=0 then you need others>>1 to get the overall>1.
Sufficient condition for EiEn>1 is some=1 and others>1.
Thanks Ajay & Amit,
Brilliant as always! In your eloquent silence, you've elevated the mundane elephant in the room to the status of a mythical colossus, its silent roar echoing through the corridors of unspoken truths.
This channel is so underrated!! I'm sure it will suddenly become really popular.
Just in case my initial comment will be perceived as trigger-worthy by TH-cam and removed:
The more equitable and inclusive our institutions are during the good times (when society is depoliticized), the lesser will be the backlash by populist forces during the bad times (politicized).
For example, not having a revolving door between Congress and Wall Street, where people who will vote for war will then go and sit on boards of companies in the military-industrial complex. Talk about messed-up incentives.
I have empathy for the people of Ukraine. The flower of Ukrainian youth is being sacrificed to feed the egoes in Moscow and Washington.
I would like everyone to ponder on a few questions? Why do neighbours fight? Why does one side gets sanctions and the other side gets aid in dollars? Why are those taxpayer dollars then used to buy weapons from American companies? Isn't it a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich?
Amit and Ajay! Thank you for taking the time and making your minds available to the rest of us. If any of you gentlemen find yourself in Toronto, Canada- please know that you have friends here.
It's amazing. The playbook of populism breaches all cultural boundary.. It's the same framework. Let's see if we are able redeem ourselves
Where were you guys till now. Thank you , thank you and thank you
Wow, some said and unsaid things about our own country.
Ajay actually slipped in his subtlety by mentioning good thinking people of india while speaking on free and fair elections. You're on the list now 🎉
The discussion on Indian populism is conspicuous by its absence. You are smart. While discussing the four nations you chose, you gave out all the cues to the gentle reader to discern for himself!
About time gents. I’ve been missing that old feeling of theorizing my anxiety.
That is such a smart comment. “Theorizing my anxiety”. Brilliant!
May God Bless the Duo ❤
Nothing have I read or heard in the recent times that drive home the significance of Freedom of Speech as well and as astutely as this one! Insightful information about Populism was of course a great side fish of course.
Take a bow!
Absolutely fantastic conversation! Hope this video gets blessed by the algorithm. It does however, leave us with a question- how can we convert enlightened liberal values into mass politics? Building stronger institutions helps the cause but I doubt will be the catalyst to go from 0 to 1, even if it'll sustain the fire from 1 to 10. Cheers to the team!
Amit please do a episode on declining TFR all over the world, its reasons and consequences. How does the future of humanity gets effected by it?
Happy to know that Ajays PHD thesis was also on population topic.
subtlety at its peak
Very illuminating conversation, learnt a lot. Also loved the bird calls towards the end.
The said and the unsaid 👻
wow… makes so sense of the things going around….
Superb episode. Several new concepts.
1. Orthogonality of populism and ideology.
2. Measure of fragility of institutions - how many percentage points of impact in an election is made when the ruling dispensation constrains opposition funding, organization, freedoms.
I would like to point out another play in the playbook of populists - gaslighting of grievances of the 'other'. (On a related note, you guys were dismissing the grievances of the majority out of hand. Just don't . I have come to expect better of you. Remember that the Dalit/OBC grouping is a majority amongst Hindus. Just a gentle reader's gentle criticism.)
In general, I would also like to ask if you guys are agreeable with ratings and rankings in VDEM? My initial reaction is quite negative. I'm more sanguine about the Freedom house ratings. (Even the freedom house ones are dubious as a country like Peru is rated alongside India in-spite of it's elected President having been set aside. Similar to the Nawaz Sharif being thrown out due to his not being Sadik and Ameen.)
This podcast is the best content I have discovered online in years. (Unix, Mahalanobis, Ukraine, Farm laws, Populism). I think I can unsubscribe from all my other TH-cam subs. 😉
Ajay Shah's shirt is lit 🔥
If I can see, Communist Parties of every nation fit all the definitions of Populism. Would you agree - Is Marxism a populist idea?
Yes
Wow! You shouted HIS name without even calling it out! Speaks volumes on HIM? Who you ask? - The Big Brother, I say!😉
The episode was as subtle as the shades of blue and white mixing in Ajay Shah’s shirt. :)
Consider setting up memberships, I’m sure some of us would be interested in supporting the show! Would love bonus content as well 😊
BTW. That point about Trump eating junk food - he never had a taste for healthy food - his doctor used to find it hard to smuggle veggies into his food
Not surprised. Carbs make you stupid.
My first humble submission is: There are no left-wing/right-wing populist leader.
Of course- I, as a populist leader can lean on religion (as my opium of choice to feed to masses) or collectivization (the other opium), but at my heart - I am the pied piper who seeks to create mobs, and what "drug" I choose from the enormous buffet that is available is upto me (and those like me, who will come after me).
My second humble submission is: Everyone should read Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom". If some one is attention-challenged, there is a 5-8 minutes long video on TH-cam which is a comic strip rendering (filled with captivating audio) of the same. I read it first 15 years back, and it still today resonates very strongly with me.
My third submission is: The rise of populism has and always been an outcome of state promising services that it can't keep up. In essence a breaking of the social contract. Perhaps because of poor state capacity (India), perhaps because of deep economic morass (Weimar Republic, Russia), or even because of the fundamental economic restructuring that US experienced since1980s. US transitioned from a manufacturing-heavy country to a knowledge-dominant country (evident that mfg accounted for 25% of US gdp to a little above 10-12% now). A meta-study of this phenomenon is evoked in Hillbilly Elegy.
This gives me hope for US, since it is a temporary phenomena where a generation comfortable in the knowledge- that it will always have a job, no matter how much of a hick it is, to a generation which doesn't take the prospect of economic mobility for granted. Just a matter of a generation.
I would also recommend the Podcast ' Real dictators'. Its amazing how the means and ends are so similar for all of them.
On lighter side, I think you two don't want to be in the "40 thousand I*****s who may get killed"😄
Thank you so much for such wonderful conversations.
The Age of The Strongman by Gideon Rachman is good read on the rise of strongmen politicians across the world.
A recommendation by your avid reader to you gentle youtubers would be to listen to Sam Harris conversation with Rory Stewart on Sam's podcast on the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I don't have subscription to Sam's podcast but the half episode that he puts out (for free) was really good (PS: Thanks for putting these episodes out on youtube for free!).
Rory's (so woke that they are illiberal) views (though he being of the conservative party) are one of the reasons of rise of populist movements like Brexit in the UK.
Two of the countries in the episode are Poland and Israel. See
www.nber.org/papers/w32614
For the impact of populism on FDI.
I feel a key part of modern politics is the fact that it is heresy today to acknowledge that we are not all born equal. No wonder the best stay away from politics
I wonder when (if?) this will become acceptable
Excellent understated presentation. I love that not a word on the world's largest democracy. Very clever. Well done.
Amit your trademark humour is somewhat missing.
Frankly you guys are being too hard on Populism. Populism is a direct product of politicisation which is another name for Democracy (+ve democracy, -ve politicisation). True populist movement (tho violent and ugly) perform the crucial act of error correction. FDR, Lincoln, Trump are all populist and they represent a major policy paradigm shift which is unthinkable for liberal institutionalist elite. Furthermore, at least for West, the populist are more right than wrong on BIG issues = untenability of mass immigration, China, Industrialisation etc
Everything with ifs and buts if it doesn't conform to one's virtue...
For example, they used Donald Trump example for saying 'what matters is the people... others don't mattrr', but guess what Biden has done same thing much worse against MAGA.
Or the second example of 'elites are ruining us, we know what should be done'... guess what, elites tell the same rhetoric, whichever you want to belive.
Third example, 'we are victims', hmm guess which ideology endorses intersectionalism and identitarianism more?
So much double speak and honestly dissonance in first 10 minutes I just can't..
It's not like what they are saying is particularly wrong, it's just that it all becomes hotchpotch if one is only able to find the application of those ideas in some cases while not in others...
Please an episode on our neighbours Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh.
A question thats been bothering me for a while:
Do populists know they can follow a 7 point startegy to achieve their aims or this tendency to create simplistic narratives or drive hate something innate to human mind. Can populism be born in isolation?
greast episode. alhtough i felt uncomfortable everytime ajay used "civilizing force" given its deep colonial connotations.
putting marx in the same bucket as mao, hitler & lenin is a category error !
Inciting hatred of the elite, class warfare, workers of the world unite, stand on French revolution.
He was a deep thinker with important insights into the world. But unfortunately a populist.
✌✌
This feels like such a shallow question for what is a wonderful episode…but where does Mr. Ajay buy his shirts?
Many are gifts. We talked about Indiancolours.com . Some are Arvind retail.
👀👀👀
The elephant in the room felt left out.
How much did you stop yourself in mentioning India in this episode?
Commenting for reach 😅
So in short a populist blames the elite for everything and a dictator just blames anyone who contradicts him with a sharp focus on self obsession. Who's the bigger cause of worry 😅
Amit's “Phrase of the Day” is “read the tea leaves“ and its meaning is “predict what will happen in the future from small signs🍁🍁; guess the future”.
If Populist is bad then same can be said about captilism or the elite culture. Anything extreme is bad but shouldn't we take good from everything like collectivism from communism, individualisim from liberatian, respect entrepreneur from capitalism, or like respect people's wish from populism.
th-cam.com/video/IuMoGbAam-U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=16vaqXvCPymAhUgB
So basically populism is what Napoleon did after the French Revolution?
French revolution itself is a piece of underclass rage.
Is there a way or ways on how to avoid popularism affecting individual , let’s discuss that
Trump chhodo India ke baare me bhi baat kar lo
Throughtout the video i was like "Jeez!You thinks what me thinks".