This show may well be for the archives in the coming years. I think I have mostly spammed everyone from India to US to Singapore ... just to let them know this maybe a '83 World Cup moment in the making. Thank god someone from Amit's generation did this show with someone like Ajay. We now have something to show for our bygone years. Unbelievable trinity of friendly banter - humorous sorted complex history - mind-blowing references.
An amazing addition to the Amit's stupendous work on India's Socio-Political and Economical systems to really understand complexities and reasons for everything of everything. Loved both these amazing individuals, explorer of human mind and behaviors. As a long time fan of 'Seen and Unseen' an enthralling, deep ongoing podcast, this is fantastic, to both Amit and Ajay.
I absolutely love both of these people. Amit Verma and Ajay Shah are both free market and free speech absolutist and social/economic progress of true sense can only happen through that. Coming to this podcase, the likes of Hayek,Mises, Menger and Bastiat are more relevant than ever in a world becoming increasingly complex and society and institutions' knowledge problem becoming clearer than ever before. While Great depression laid the pillar of Keynesian heavy intervention in the state, that too seems to have outlived its utility in a world always compounded by one problem or the other.
Amazing conversation with lots of takeaways. I have been a listener of Amit's podcast for past many years. It has helped me in so many ways to understand the world around me and to figure out my own answers to various issues around me. Keep going!
This is the best way to introduce the History of economic thought. You can take up the topics either thematically or by considering a personality who has opened up new fields in Economics. That will be educative and enjoyable. As always this episode is excellent. As we listen to your talk one tends to get convinced about freedom in the market economy and how spontaneous order is the way nature organizes itself. But there is lurking doubt about its efficacy as the world is imperfect. You say the price is the single parameter with all the information to arrive at market equilibrium. Is this really so in the world we live in today? Do we have such perfect markets? Markets are always the bone of contention in any conflict between nations. And the unquenchable thirst for raw materials and markets was the motivation for colonialism and the wars that followed including the world wars. If I am appearing to be a leftist by this comment, it is not true, I am not. But you should be able to explain, in coming episodes, the underlying reasons behind the great inequality, poverty, and a type of anarchy that is seen between the nations. Further is it not true that great power rivalry has resulted in the misery of many nations? How is it that all the differences between the great powers are settled in some other nations pushing them over the brink? If free markets are a panacea and are so fair and equitable why are we transiting from one crisis to the other all the time? My guess is that you will say where is it that Free markets & capitalism supported, even theoretically, colonialism and world wars? But they are a reality, are they not? It is not always the double thanks moment in the coffee shop that Amit often recounts that justifies the free markets and capitalism. In his own words, the world is much more complex than a coffee shop banter. World affairs are, I think, not so simple. Many a time you will arm twisted to say Thanks! I understand it has become a rant. But it s genuine. I am all for individual freedom and liberty. I understand the stagnation that socialism or state capitalism entails. But I always have these nagging doubts. Somehow, I feel the international order as it exists is not fair. While democracies are functional in many nation-states, anarchy is the order of the day internationally. And the reason for this anarchy, I believe, is the fight for markets and the desire for spheres of influence. Request you both discuss these issues in your future episodes.
I was scrolling through the comments and starting to write when I saw your comment. I have pretty much the same thoughts and questions. It'll be good if Ajay and Amit can talk about those in a subsequent episode or respond here to your comment. As you say, the world is not perfect. So, while theory gives good mental models, what will make the episodes really valuable will be discussions on the application of these theories on messy (multivariate ?) real world scenarios. The surge pricing is one example. It takes away predictability from life and can be a real cause of concern. Imagine a woman, trying to get back home late in the night and not able to afford this suddenly increased price. Even otherwise, people work on budgets and need some degree of predictability. The design of Uber's surge looks extractive to me. A fairer system might be a live bid and ask system (like the stock markets). Even a feature such as "tell me how much this ride might cost at 11pm" might be a better one. Food prices is another one. Ideally the state should only intervene on market failures and let the market sort itself out. But what if that has political implications ? Does it now not become a constrained optimization problem trying to balance price and political capital ?
Brilliant overall converstion as always. Around 47:55 i recall an amazing Russ Roberts econtalk on price sruge of water bottles during floods. These scenarios played themselves out during the great COVID toilet paper panic of 2020. Will dig up that podcast episode name.
Also Hayek: "such control of the environment or circumstances of a person by another that, in order to avoid greater evil, he is forced to act not according to a coherent plan of his own but to serve the ends of another".
The entire discussion is actually an illustration of the First and Second Fundamental Principles of Welfare Economics. Those who are Econ students, or interested in studying econ formally, should either listen to this episode or read Hayek and Bastiat in conjunction with Welfare Economics. The theorems are the formal results, and Bastiat and Hayek give you the actual feel of the concept.
One beautiful conversation. I can see the movie playing out with Ambani launching made in China laptop, and Modi Govt imposing restrictions on importing laptops 😂😂
Great conversation as always! A question - what are your thoughts on using tarrifs as a political weapon against values that don't align with yours as a nation, such as human rights or environmental abuses?
The question is. Do you want it badly enough? Everyone wants a box of chocolate. The price system allocates it while simultaneously creating incentives to make chocolate.
Economists talk about a uniform ad valorem tariff on all goods as the ideal nonzero tariff design. This is neutral between all capitalists. Blowing up the port or bridge is a bit like this (every local producer gains and it's non discretionary). But because different goods have a different extent of transportation cost (e.g. think cement vs pistachio) it's not a uniform ad valorem tariff.
A silly question, if the amount of money in the system is fixed does the double thank you moment still make everyone better off... My feeling is that the financialisation of everything n monetary policy is what's making ppl better off... Is it really a positive sum game
While i appreciate your insights on the negatives of price control, I'd like to know one thing. What would say about the so called exploitation by corporate hospitals during covid which is similar to surge pricing? Did it not drive people into debt? Was it not a source of poverty in our nation? And what would you say about price capping by the government on stents and covid tests? Is it not a noble pursuit?
Indians, in general , love gossip and are indifferent to meaningful discussions. Otherwise, no reason that a puliabaji and an eie would have at least a million subscribers. 😭
Please don't feel like this. It's a story of non purposive curiosity. The world is too big for any one specialisation. We are all struggling with how to understand and act in the complexities of the real world.
Hayek has been one of my heroes too. Thanks so much for sharing the wisdom of Bastiat and Hayek. Just curious, have you guys watched this legendary rap battle between Hayek and Keynes? ;) - th-cam.com/video/GTQnarzmTOc/w-d-xo.html
On a lighter note. Get a better thumbnail artist. Make the thumbnail more punchier and visually appealing. You might get more eyeballs (which I believe is the intention)
Slight disagreement with the protection tariff thing. It's simplistic assumption on the part if Amit. In his example he ignores the fact that nations provide subsidies according to their capabilities and to protect from those subsidies protective tariffs are triggered specially by developing and least developed countries. Rich countries are capable of providing subsidies to further their political and economic interests and they do so. I am not from economic background so might be wrong here.
Welcome to this field. By and large the correct thing for a government to do is to not interfere with cross border activities. There are many ways to see this insight and we hope you will get many paths to this in the show.
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This show may well be for the archives in the coming years. I think I have mostly spammed everyone from India to US to Singapore ... just to let them know this maybe a '83 World Cup moment in the making. Thank god someone from Amit's generation did this show with someone like Ajay. We now have something to show for our bygone years. Unbelievable trinity of friendly banter - humorous sorted complex history - mind-blowing references.
Has to be some divine fate (sic) that this got recommended by my algorithm. Like a hidden treasure for sure
An amazing addition to the Amit's stupendous work on India's Socio-Political and Economical systems to really understand complexities and reasons for everything of everything. Loved both these amazing individuals, explorer of human mind and behaviors. As a long time fan of 'Seen and Unseen' an enthralling, deep ongoing podcast, this is fantastic, to both Amit and Ajay.
Calm and sane voices in chaos.
I absolutely love both of these people. Amit Verma and Ajay Shah are both free market and free speech absolutist and social/economic progress of true sense can only happen through that. Coming to this podcase, the likes of Hayek,Mises, Menger and Bastiat are more relevant than ever in a world becoming increasingly complex and society and institutions' knowledge problem becoming clearer than ever before. While Great depression laid the pillar of Keynesian heavy intervention in the state, that too seems to have outlived its utility in a world always compounded by one problem or the other.
Amazing conversation with lots of takeaways. I have been a listener of Amit's podcast for past many years. It has helped me in so many ways to understand the world around me and to figure out my own answers to various issues around me. Keep going!
Very timely discussion on the backdrop of government stopping laptops imports
Some truly profound truths in this episode! Loved every bit
Please discuss the works of Milton Friedman and Thomas sowell.
Thanks Amit for this episode.
What fantastic timing on this episode!
This is the best way to introduce the History of economic thought. You can take up the topics either thematically or by considering a personality who has opened up new fields in Economics. That will be educative and enjoyable. As always this episode is excellent.
As we listen to your talk one tends to get convinced about freedom in the market economy and how spontaneous order is the way nature organizes itself. But there is lurking doubt about its efficacy as the world is imperfect. You say the price is the single parameter with all the information to arrive at market equilibrium. Is this really so in the world we live in today? Do we have such perfect markets?
Markets are always the bone of contention in any conflict between nations. And the unquenchable thirst for raw materials and markets was the motivation for colonialism and the wars that followed including the world wars. If I am appearing to be a leftist by this comment, it is not true, I am not. But you should be able to explain, in coming episodes, the underlying reasons behind the great inequality, poverty, and a type of anarchy that is seen between the nations. Further is it not true that great power rivalry has resulted in the misery of many nations? How is it that all the differences between the great powers are settled in some other nations pushing them over the brink? If free markets are a panacea and are so fair and equitable why are we transiting from one crisis to the other all the time? My guess is that you will say where is it that Free markets & capitalism supported, even theoretically, colonialism and world wars? But they are a reality, are they not?
It is not always the double thanks moment in the coffee shop that Amit often recounts that justifies the free markets and capitalism. In his own words, the world is much more complex than a coffee shop banter. World affairs are, I think, not so simple. Many a time you will arm twisted to say Thanks!
I understand it has become a rant. But it s genuine. I am all for individual freedom and liberty. I understand the stagnation that socialism or state capitalism entails. But I always have these nagging doubts. Somehow, I feel the international order as it exists is not fair. While democracies are functional in many nation-states, anarchy is the order of the day internationally. And the reason for this anarchy, I believe, is the fight for markets and the desire for spheres of influence.
Request you both discuss these issues in your future episodes.
Absolutely second this.
I was scrolling through the comments and starting to write when I saw your comment. I have pretty much the same thoughts and questions. It'll be good if Ajay and Amit can talk about those in a subsequent episode or respond here to your comment.
As you say, the world is not perfect. So, while theory gives good mental models, what will make the episodes really valuable will be discussions on the application of these theories on messy (multivariate ?) real world scenarios.
The surge pricing is one example. It takes away predictability from life and can be a real cause of concern. Imagine a woman, trying to get back home late in the night and not able to afford this suddenly increased price. Even otherwise, people work on budgets and need some degree of predictability. The design of Uber's surge looks extractive to me. A fairer system might be a live bid and ask system (like the stock markets). Even a feature such as "tell me how much this ride might cost at 11pm" might be a better one.
Food prices is another one. Ideally the state should only intervene on market failures and let the market sort itself out. But what if that has political implications ? Does it now not become a constrained optimization problem trying to balance price and political capital ?
Thanks for your response. Hope Amit and Ajay would discuss these aspects in their future episodes. @@subhashishdutta
Each discussion is a learning in itself. Thanks Amit and Ajay for starting this video podcast series.
Brilliant overall converstion as always. Around 47:55 i recall an amazing Russ Roberts econtalk on price sruge of water bottles during floods. These scenarios played themselves out during the great COVID toilet paper panic of 2020. Will dig up that podcast episode name.
Thanks for reigniting my old passion for reading books, now reading The Modern Mind.
Also Hayek: "such control of the environment or circumstances of a person by another that, in order to avoid greater evil, he is forced to act not according to a coherent plan of his own but to serve the ends of another".
Ajay Shah in all his glory in the second chapter. You should consider theatre, dear sir.
Guys, this is gold. Please dont stop doing this.
The entire discussion is actually an illustration of the First and Second Fundamental Principles of Welfare Economics. Those who are Econ students, or interested in studying econ formally, should either listen to this episode or read Hayek and Bastiat in conjunction with Welfare Economics. The theorems are the formal results, and Bastiat and Hayek give you the actual feel of the concept.
That Hazlitt book is great for beginners.
Wonderful episode ❤
Great podcast Ajay and Amit. You guys are so inspiring!
One beautiful conversation. I can see the movie playing out with Ambani launching made in China laptop, and Modi Govt imposing restrictions on importing laptops 😂😂
Great conversation as always! A question - what are your thoughts on using tarrifs as a political weapon against values that don't align with yours as a nation, such as human rights or environmental abuses?
When you guys were talking about the "simplistic narratives," that reminded me of "Four legs good, two legs bad".. ha ha, if you know, you know
Thank you!
Could you suggest some great introductory books on Microeconomics, Macroeconomics?
So in the taxi example you discussed, what if one does need the service dearly but is unable to afford it?
The question is. Do you want it badly enough? Everyone wants a box of chocolate. The price system allocates it while simultaneously creating incentives to make chocolate.
Thank you.
Economists talk about a uniform ad valorem tariff on all goods as the ideal nonzero tariff design. This is neutral between all capitalists.
Blowing up the port or bridge is a bit like this (every local producer gains and it's non discretionary). But because different goods have a different extent of transportation cost (e.g. think cement vs pistachio) it's not a uniform ad valorem tariff.
5 big books in next 50 years. Ajay sir knows exactly this other gentleman’s writing speed, I thought, pensively.
Ajay comes from the last century, where men were men and took a decade writing a big ambitious book.
Freddy reminds me of the bear from Kanye’s college drop out album art.
superb!
Mind blown
missing behind the scenes
A silly question, if the amount of money in the system is fixed does the double thank you moment still make everyone better off... My feeling is that the financialisation of everything n monetary policy is what's making ppl better off... Is it really a positive sum game
While i appreciate your insights on the negatives of price control, I'd like to know one thing.
What would say about the so called exploitation by corporate hospitals during covid which is similar to surge pricing?
Did it not drive people into debt? Was it not a source of poverty in our nation?
And what would you say about price capping by the government on stents and covid tests? Is it not a noble pursuit?
The chapter on health policy in In service of the republic, 2nd edition, will be of interest to you.
When you read what Bastiat wrote in the 1840s, you would think it was written in recent times.
The Alibaba Group owns the South China Morning Post. Things aren't particularly great for Jack Ma.
Hi Amit, what are your thoughts on Thoms Sowell
Please read ' Principles of Economics' by Carl Menger.
Indians, in general , love gossip and are indifferent to meaningful discussions. Otherwise, no reason that a puliabaji and an eie would have at least a million subscribers. 😭
I feel dumb and dumber with every episode and I have watched 200 + episodes of The Seen and The unseen. In last one year.
Please don't feel like this. It's a story of non purposive curiosity. The world is too big for any one specialisation. We are all struggling with how to understand and act in the complexities of the real world.
Fanning
❤
Hayek has been one of my heroes too. Thanks so much for sharing the wisdom of Bastiat and Hayek. Just curious, have you guys watched this legendary rap battle between Hayek and Keynes? ;) - th-cam.com/video/GTQnarzmTOc/w-d-xo.html
🎉
your Bastiat prize speech is no longer available to view :(
On a lighter note. Get a better thumbnail artist. Make the thumbnail more punchier and visually appealing. You might get more eyeballs (which I believe is the intention)
Slight disagreement with the protection tariff thing. It's simplistic assumption on the part if Amit. In his example he ignores the fact that nations provide subsidies according to their capabilities and to protect from those subsidies protective tariffs are triggered specially by developing and least developed countries. Rich countries are capable of providing subsidies to further their political and economic interests and they do so.
I am not from economic background so might be wrong here.
Welcome to this field. By and large the correct thing for a government to do is to not interfere with cross border activities. There are many ways to see this insight and we hope you will get many paths to this in the show.
@@ajayshah5705sure sir and thank you so much to both of you for such delightful and enriching discourse 🙂
❤