"The arrangement of spherical pellets in a cylindrical volume is actually an interesting geometric relationship..." - You're my kind of gun nut! Awesome part 2 :D
Very Well Done. You have explained shot sizes better than Any video or article I have watched or read. Thank you for uploading this information. Stay Awesome.
Excellent! Concise yet thorough. I love these types of videos when presented by someone who, aside from clear subject matter expertise, is obviously well educated in the science surrounding the subject.Bravo Synchronizer! Thank you :)
Excellent Presentation! I was teaching use of the Model 12 & 870 in the US Navy. I wish I had your videos way back then (1970's) to easily answer the many "oddball" questions I used to get from the guys. I now, also enjoy watching them and direct the kids to learn from you. Thanks very much for your work, it is a wealth of information presented very clearly and professionally.
One of the best videos on the shooting web. Dude, you should publish a booklet and market it to tevery, yes EVERY pawn shop and gun store and wholesaler for guns. If you charged five bucks for it, many wholesalers would given one away with each shotgun purchase!... It is that good, guy..
I just bought a maverick 88 and I had no idea about the buckshots. After your videos I have a better idea. Thank you very much for taking your time to explain so well everything about it.
About the most comprehensive coverage of buckshot that I've ever seen. My favorite load is a 20-Pellet #1 Buck 12 ga, 2 3/4". In the future, I'd like to load a buck-and ball load with one layer of #1 and a .690 round ball.
#1B is a nice size, a good balance of pellet count and penetration. Who offers a 20-pellet #1B load these days? I know Winchester used to, but I'm pretty sure they discontinued it. Or do you load these yourself? The buck & ball load sounds interesting. I doubt it'll be particularly useful for hunting or self-defense, but it'd be cool just to play with, and a fun reloading project to tackle. A .690 ball and four #1B pellets should be almost exactly the same mass as sixteen #1B pellets (assuming they're all made of the same material and you're using true .30-caliber #1B), so you should be able to find some readily-adaptable load data out there.
I load my own, but it was available for a while. Lots of high-brass hulls left over from the local PD shoots so I make it a point to be at the range on qualification day. I have been buying the #1 but may have a go at casting them once my supply runs out. You don't really need to shoot that much of it to stay proficient and it's hard to beat WalMart bulk pack for practice. The Buck and Ball load is more of a novelty, yes. I notice that you have drawings of stacking patterns. Years ago, I took out the calipers and crunched the numbers and #1 buck was about the best for everything 12 gauge. I look forward to a future stacking video... so I don't have to make one!
RyeOnHam #1B fits well in 12ga bores because it's just small enough to be stacked in tiers of four pellets, while 0B and 00B have to be stacked in tiers of three. The mathematics of buckshot stacking really is a neat geometric puzzle (at least for me). Every once in a while I'll sit down and work out another facet of it. So far, I've nailed down ideal equations and coefficients relating pellet size and bore/shell/wad diameter for all applicable tier quantities; as well as general solutions for the total height of a stack of identical tiers inside a cylindrical volume. That's enough to describe about any normal buckshot load. However, I haven't gotten around to working out some aspects of staggered stacks of pellets in cylindrical volumes with diameters that are less than twice the pellet size (0B in a 20ga shell, for example), and I haven't given much thought to the geometry of duplex arrangements until this conversation. Buck & ball equations shouldn't be too difficult, but the math for other duplex stacks could get interesting. Anyway, If you're trying to figure out your buck & ball load before I've gotten around to uploading a detailed video on the pertinent math, feel free to get in touch with me, and I'll pass along the relevant equations.
The graph at 3:05 is really good. I see online where many claim, "Birdshot sucks for home defense." My 1st question is what size birdshot? 95% of them are thinking ~#8 and have no clue. I've got many thousands of rounds of #8 hunting dove and quail. But also #6, #4 and BB loads going after other game. It's all "birdshot" but way different in effects on critters and walls. So thanks for this!
Very well put together. Very informative and well narrated! I did notice though toward the front, comparing a projectile from a pistol to that of a shotgun isn't accurate. Remember Kinetic shock that the longer barrel creates. That's why when a human target is hit with a pistol, even a . 40 or . 45, they rarely are knocked down. A shotgun or rifle however, electrify the nervous system when they make impact. Shutting the attacker or quarry down immediately
Well prepared, well presented and an amazing amount of useful information. This is the best and most useful video on this subject I've ever seen! Liked, subscribed and looking forward to watching more!
Big thumbs up. I have a black power smoothbore side by side and have recently tested birdshot. The short barrel length means lower velocity + a light load. I was hoping to hunt squirrels but I don't believe it will work without a 36 cal shot cup.
Ur awesome dude, I thought I knew enough about shotgun food, but was always curious about the system irregularities, I now see that I knew nearly nothing about shotgun shells, although after watching a couple of these, Im less irritated (or confused) about what seemed like a chaotic classification system (at best), and it makes more sense. Thanks for posting
I am a beginner shooter hunter, stil doing the course before they will let me out to do some hunting. Your video’s have been highly enlightening giving understanding in an initially very complicated subject.. thanks for taking the time to do this... there must be a lot of people benefitting from the content.. Thanks also for the free PDF with the lists etc...
Yeah, I remember taking my first hunter's ed course way back in 3rd or 4th grade. The instructor explained the general concept of shotgun shot, then passed around a sort of clear acrylic hockey puck with a dozen or so of the more popular sizes embedded in it. It was a nice visual aid, but of course it didn't do anything to help explain how the numbers and letters related to anything. Hunting as a kid, I just used whatever shells the adults handed to me; but when I went to buy my first shotgun and tried to buy some shells at the same time, I was clueless, and even the employees working there couldn't explain it to me. I ended up just walking out of the store with a shotgun and nothing to feed it. It took a fair bit of reading to unravel everything. Glad to hear my efforts are aiding other newcomers.
Synchronizor What you did is called self education , or auto-didactism . It's the act of researching a subject and teaching oneself . Everyone has some ability to learn from others . Some have the ability to teach others . Few have the ability to research a subject and teach themselves . You , Sir , are an autodidact . You also have the ability to teach others what you have learned .
Wow thank you very much. I have listen to the first video and now this video they are exceptional. Very clear very concise. Watching more thank you thank you thank you
WOW thank you for taking the time to build the chart!!! Cant wait for the slug vid Me like the slugs and 000 buck. a trusty 870 with 000 and slugs beside the bed helps me get a good nights rest!!
I tend to prefer smaller buckshot for close-range social work. Pretty much any buckshot size has enough penetration for humans at indoor distances (barring really low-velocity or low-density loads), and the additional pellets give a greater chance of at least one finding a critical internal structure and causing a fast or instant stop. Still, I can't imagine anyone easily shaking off the equivalent of 8+ simultaneous hits from a .380 ACP, and one advantage with those big 000B pellets is that they can let you reach through barriers like walls or auto glass while still retaining good terminal effectiveness.
What a wealth of knowledge. You could be a researcher for one of the shotgun ammunition companies or some organization, university, etc. I learned a lot, thank you. But now I'm unsure of what type of shotgun ammo a LEO was referring to when he gave me advice about which type to use for self defense. I met a LEO with 30 years of experience who also trains women in firearm shooting. He may have mentioned shotguns but I don't remember. He offered me suggestions when he saw me analyzing various shotgun ammo at Walmart. He suggested that I shouldn't get anything below #4 for home/self defense, but I'm not sure if he meant buck or birdshot. I currently have 00B followed by #8 birdshot loaded in sequence in my standard 500 Mossberg. But as as a result of what that LEO suggested, I purchased 3 boxes of 3 different #4 birdshot ammo because I mostly have #8 birdshot and a few low-recoil slugs that were purchased primarily for indoor range shooting at a place that only allows you to shoot your shotgun if you use slugs. I'm concerned about over penetrating even with the low-recoil slugs since Im surrounded by homes and a park, so I won't use it for home defense. #4 birdshot the smallest number they had. Otherwise I would have gotten buckshot or something smaller than #4. As a result of doing research on shotgun ammo and especially after watching your #1 video and this one, I became interested in my shotgun one again. I just stated to learn and use the AR platform but I now have a renewed interest in the shotgun platform.
I know a lot of folks recommend #4 birdshot, but I've seen tests that show it simply doesn't have the penetration needed to reliably stop human-sized critters. Add in clothing, and some extra distance (the smaller a pellet is, the faster it loses velocity in flight), and you're most likely just going to cause a painful surface wound. Now, that very well could cause an attacker or home invader to change their mind, but it's not going to *force* them to stop if they're really determined. It's their choice to either push through it and keep trying to get you, or run away and walk themselves to the hospital. If it was my life, or the lives of my family on the line, I wouldn't want to leave that decision up to the threat. The thing to understand is that with round pellets, penetration increases with pellet size and pellet velocity. Increase or decrease pellet size, and you have to decrease or increase velocity to balance it out and achieve the same penetration. With buckshot, the pellets are big enough to penetrate into a human's vitals at normal shotgun muzzle velocities. Personally, I like #4 buckshot for HD. A 21-pellet high-velocity load puts a lot of holes in the target, and they go deep enough without having a lot left over. 21 pellets is lighter than more typical 27-pellet loads, meaning much less recoil (there's an exponential relationship between ejecta mass and recoil energy). Other good options are mid-velocity #1 buckshot loads, or low-velocity 00 buckshot loads. These loads also balance pellet size with velocity to give enough penetration for close-range defense against humans. In police shootings, these are the types of buckshot loads that most commonly end in a dead or incapacitated assailant, with pellets that have penetrated all the way through the torso to stop at - or just barely through - the skin or clothing on the opposite side. With faster buckshot loads intended for battlefield use at longer ranges, law enforcement shootings where the pellets need to reach through car bodies or windshields, or hunting game animals that are much larger than humans, you're more likely to wind up with enough extra penetration to potentially cause issues. That said, I think people worry about overpenetration more than they should. The safest thing to do in a defensive shooting is to bring it to an end as quickly as possible, and the best way to do that is with effective ammunition and a good HD plan.
Thanks for your information. It really helps a lot. I guess I responded to this message on your other TH-cam video, #1. I will probably have to go to gun stores and not Walmart to find the kind of desirable and effective loads you suggest. They will be pricy compared to what I'm used to buying but it's important to be properly prepared with adequate ammo. Here's something that I found on a website from AR15.com regarding ammo for specific purposes: "Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body. For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not. Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive."
You can't just say #1 buckshot is better because it has more total cross-sectional area than 00. For one thing, that math is comparing a 16-pellet #1 load to a 9-pellet 00B load, and that 00B load only has about 75% as much lead as the #1. If you compare a 12-pellet 00B load to a 16-pellet #1 load, you get very close to the same amount of lead, and the difference in cross-sectional area is roughly 10%. But as you'd expect, the same amount of mass with less surface area goes to show how the larger 00B pellets can penetrate to the same depth with less impact velocity. There's no one load that's best for every situation. #1 buck is a fine choice, but so is low-recoil 00B and high-velocity #4B. Pick bigger pellets if you want to keep as much penetration as possible at longer ranges or through light barriers, and small pellets for maximum pattern saturation at closer ranges. #1B strikes a nice balance between those two extremes, but it's tough to find in stores, especially if you want the lower-recoil 12-pellet load instead of the standard 16-pellet deer load.
Wow, there certainly is a lot to consider. Thanks again for your info. I went ahead and rearranged the ammo in my shotgun with just one type. I now have only 00B Suprema with 9 pellets. I don't know the FPS or velocity, but they're the only suitable self-defense shot shells I currently own. The #8s will be used only for sports or plinking(?), and the three boxes of #4 birdshot for backup and plinking/sports as well. I will reconsider my options after rereading what you wrote and doing more research. I guess I'll have to purchase from several buckshot loads that are suitable for self defense and stick with the one(s) that I can handle the best, be it #4, #1, or 00B.
Where you showed efficient pellet stacking in a 20 gauge and came up with the custom shot size of .283 as the perfect size I figured up that balls that are 46% of the theoretical bore size are perfect for getting layers of 3. Im trying to figure up a way to do this for .410 and came up with .1886, I'm wondering if using BBB, .19 would work or if I'd have to use BB. Maybe they make .188? I just scored an old school Mossberg 183DF, bolt action, 3 shot .410 (3" chamber) and want to work up defensive load but don't want to go with birdshot, a 3 pellet 000 buck or a pathetic 1/4 oz slug. I'm thinking going with 11/16 oz of BBB which comes up to roughly 27 to 30 pellets, but it'll probably be more like 24, I hope this makes sense!
Keep in mind that if you're loading these pellets inside a standard plastic wad, you'll need to size them per the internal diameter of the shotcup, not the bore diameter. But even if they're stacked like buckshot, BB or BBB are still kinda small pellets for large critters like people. I would say a buckshot load would be a better bet if you want to defend yourself with a .410. Not as many pellets, but at least you know they'll go deep enough to matter. I've seen some .410 shells that are loaded with #4 buckshot. No idea if they'll pattern worth a damn since .24-caliber pellets can't stack properly in a shell that size, but maybe it would work for real close-range.
THIS HAS BEEN SOME GREAT INFORMATION ,I DID NOT KNOW BUCKSHOT WAS SO VAST AND I KNOW THAT I,M ONLY SCRATCHING THE SURFACE,AND IT,S A CHALLENGE BUT I LIKE TO FIND THE CAUSE OF MY IGNORANCE AT ALL COST. THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO -SYNCHRONIZOR.
thanks for an extremely helpful and organized instructional video....a topic perhaps for another time is the use of buffers and plated shot for the control of shot dispersion in cylinder bore barrels...thanks!
Thank you! I’ve been shooing for over twenty years and never could sort out all this. I really appreciate it. Maybe you could present some of the developmental reasoning for all the variance in another video. For instance, wth is dust shot and what is that for?? Cool bro. Great video.
Used to be, birdshot was mainly manufactured using a drop process; molten lead would be dribbled through a screen to fall for a ways (assuming a round shape in flight) before landing in water to solidify. That process tended to create a mix of various sizes, and those were then sorted for use or sale. Since dust shot is not a specific size, but instead anything below a certain maximum, I assume it was what folks tended to call the leftover tiny pellets left over after the more defined sizes had been screened out. It wouldn't be useful for much besides small pests at very close range. Or maybe non-shotgun uses like weights or ballast.
Amazing video series, a true teacher with useful information. Quick question, would you recommend replacing the trigger on the 870 express with the police metal trigger assembly? Any opinion on this? Ty
+Alan Ursino I prefer the polymer trigger plates. The metal 870 trigger plates are made from compressed powdered aluminum, which isn't nearly as strong or impact-resistant as billet aluminum; in fact, it's quite brittle. Quality polymers, on the other hand, can be much tougher since they can flex and absorb impacts, and then return to their original shape in most cases. I've not seen actual testing comparing the different 870 trigger plates, but Ruger switched from similar compressed aluminum trigger groups to polymer awhile back, and as shown in this video (th-cam.com/video/biMkNYWAzIk/w-d-xo.html), the polymer parts are clearly much tougher. The trigger plate designs in some other shotguns favor metals because they serve some function or have some mechanical feature that wouldn't work as well if made from plastic. Trigger plates for the Mossberg 500, for example, are held in the receiver by two small molded-in tabs that can fatigue and break off if made from polymer, and the trigger plate for the Ithaca 37 also contains the threads for the stock bolt. But 870 trigger groups are self-contained, non-stressed assemblies secured in the gun's steel receiver by two steel pins that pass through steel bushings set solidly in the trigger plate, so there isn't any structurally weak area where a plastic trigger plate can readily fatigue and fail, while the aluminum version wouldn't. In addition to toughness, the polymer 870 trigger plates are very good at hiding wear or scratches since the polymer is black all the way through. Look at the trigger guard on any well-used Police 870 or older Wingmaster, and you'll clearly see every single scratch and scrape, since the aluminum is bright silver under the black paint. As far as the mechanical stuff goes, Express trigger plate assemblies are virtually identical to Police assemblies. Police assemblies may have one or two heavier springs simply because folks tend to want a heavier trigger pull or stiffer carrier in a combat gun than in a hunting gun; and for a few years Expresses had special (and stupid) locking safety buttons that could be locked in the safe position with a special key. But apart from those differences (which can easily be addressed if desired by simply replacing those parts), Express & Police trigger plate assemblies use the same parts made from the same materials and manufactured to the same quality standards. In my 870, I use an Express trigger plate assembly (polymer trigger plate) with a few Marine Magnum parts (which are more corrosion-resistant) swapped in, and I use different sear springs for different applications, depending on how heavy or light I want the trigger pull to be.
Is that game in the video real? ^_^ Excellent explanation about the difference between birdshot and buckshot and how they are used. It brings to mind the difference between canister and grapeshot in the days of muzzle-loading black powder cannon - a canister load would be a large number (dozens, maybe a hundred or more) musket-ball sized projectiles, while grapeshot was a small number (9,12, etc.) of larger balls stacked carefully in a certain way, with a round baseplate and an over-plate connected together with some sort of rod, and usually covered in cloth. Grape was for naval use, since there was wood that had to be penetrated, while canister was used against massed infantry.
![Stuff You Should Know About Buckshot [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3haq5BFh7qs/mqdefault.jpg)
You put a huge amount of effort, skill and knowledge into your videos. The channel is a great resource! Thank you.
"The arrangement of spherical pellets in a cylindrical volume is actually an interesting geometric relationship..." - You're my kind of gun nut! Awesome part 2 :D
Very Well Done. You have explained shot sizes better than Any video or article I have watched or read. Thank you for uploading this information. Stay Awesome.
Excellent! Concise yet thorough. I love these types of videos when presented by someone who, aside from clear subject matter expertise, is obviously well educated in the science surrounding the subject.Bravo Synchronizer! Thank you :)
This is by far the best video explaining any of this. Kudos to you. This is real, quality content.
its nice to finally see someone on youtube that knows what they're talking about. great video and thanks for the download
great series, thanks for sharing your passion. i appreciate all the time and effort you put into this . cheers from down under
Ralph Kluge amen
Excellent Presentation! I was teaching use of the Model 12 & 870 in the US Navy. I wish I had your videos way back then (1970's) to easily answer the many "oddball" questions I used to get from the guys. I now, also enjoy watching them and direct the kids to learn from you. Thanks very much for your work, it is a wealth of information presented very clearly and professionally.
Very helpful charting. Your videos are the best, reflecting the hours you must have used to plan and produce. Please, keep producing.
A true professional, like you, puts out a video and everyone can really tell the difference. Thank you so much for this video.
i can tell this guy is quite intelligent.. the information he gives is clear, concise, and comprehensive. well done
Nicely done sir, love how in depth you go, and explaining the 1/2 sizes, thanks for all the info, and keep shooting.
BEST explanation on the different shotgun ammo! Thank you Sir.
Im a long time tactical shotgun shooter.... this video really clarified alot. I hope this gentleman continues to make many many many more videos.
One of the best videos on the shooting web. Dude, you should publish a booklet and market it to tevery, yes EVERY pawn shop and gun store and wholesaler for guns. If you charged five bucks for it, many wholesalers would given one away with each shotgun purchase!... It is that good, guy..
I just bought a maverick 88 and I had no idea about the buckshots. After your videos I have a better idea. Thank you very much for taking your time to explain so well everything about it.
Excellent video, thank you
Damn. This was masters-level detail. I love it!
About the most comprehensive coverage of buckshot that I've ever seen. My favorite load is a 20-Pellet #1 Buck 12 ga, 2 3/4". In the future, I'd like to load a buck-and ball load with one layer of #1 and a .690 round ball.
#1B is a nice size, a good balance of pellet count and penetration. Who offers a 20-pellet #1B load these days? I know Winchester used to, but I'm pretty sure they discontinued it. Or do you load these yourself?
The buck & ball load sounds interesting. I doubt it'll be particularly useful for hunting or self-defense, but it'd be cool just to play with, and a fun reloading project to tackle. A .690 ball and four #1B pellets should be almost exactly the same mass as sixteen #1B pellets (assuming they're all made of the same material and you're using true .30-caliber #1B), so you should be able to find some readily-adaptable load data out there.
I load my own, but it was available for a while. Lots of high-brass hulls left over from the local PD shoots so I make it a point to be at the range on qualification day. I have been buying the #1 but may have a go at casting them once my supply runs out. You don't really need to shoot that much of it to stay proficient and it's hard to beat WalMart bulk pack for practice.
The Buck and Ball load is more of a novelty, yes. I notice that you have drawings of stacking patterns. Years ago, I took out the calipers and crunched the numbers and #1 buck was about the best for everything 12 gauge. I look forward to a future stacking video... so I don't have to make one!
RyeOnHam #1B fits well in 12ga bores because it's just small enough to be stacked in tiers of four pellets, while 0B and 00B have to be stacked in tiers of three.
The mathematics of buckshot stacking really is a neat geometric puzzle (at least for me). Every once in a while I'll sit down and work out another facet of it. So far, I've nailed down ideal equations and coefficients relating pellet size and bore/shell/wad diameter for all applicable tier quantities; as well as general solutions for the total height of a stack of identical tiers inside a cylindrical volume. That's enough to describe about any normal buckshot load. However, I haven't gotten around to working out some aspects of staggered stacks of pellets in cylindrical volumes with diameters that are less than twice the pellet size (0B in a 20ga shell, for example), and I haven't given much thought to the geometry of duplex arrangements until this conversation. Buck & ball equations shouldn't be too difficult, but the math for other duplex stacks could get interesting.
Anyway, If you're trying to figure out your buck & ball load before I've gotten around to uploading a detailed video on the pertinent math, feel free to get in touch with me, and I'll pass along the relevant equations.
This guy is great, thanks for the information, so condense and well structured instead of the incomplete others!
Love it. Organized, plenty of visual aids and very well presented. A+. Thank you!
Informative, well made video. Providing your data sheet is pure icing.
Many thanks for the work and effort you put into this.
Excellent presentation. Well versed and well spoken. A rarity on TH-cam.
The graph at 3:05 is really good. I see online where many claim, "Birdshot sucks for home defense." My 1st question is what size birdshot? 95% of them are thinking ~#8 and have no clue. I've got many thousands of rounds of #8 hunting dove and quail. But also #6, #4 and BB loads going after other game. It's all "birdshot" but way different in effects on critters and walls. So thanks for this!
Thank you for the absolutely great instruction.
I swear you sound like Marty Stouffer and Wild America it's a compliment.
Perhaps the greatest informational video of all time. Thank you.
Very well put together. Very informative and well narrated! I did notice though toward the front, comparing a projectile from a pistol to that of a shotgun isn't accurate. Remember Kinetic shock that the longer barrel creates. That's why when a human target is hit with a pistol, even a . 40 or . 45, they rarely are knocked down. A shotgun or rifle however, electrify the nervous system when they make impact. Shutting the attacker or quarry down immediately
I'm late to the party here, but I would recommend this video to anyone with questions about shot size. Very well done!
Great effort + great pedagogy = great video. Thank you!
Well prepared, well presented and an amazing amount of useful information. This is the best and most useful video on this subject I've ever seen! Liked, subscribed and looking forward to watching more!
Big thumbs up. I have a black power smoothbore side by side and have recently tested birdshot. The short barrel length means lower velocity + a light load. I was hoping to hunt squirrels but I don't believe it will work without a 36 cal shot cup.
Ur awesome dude, I thought I knew enough about shotgun food, but was always curious about the system irregularities, I now see that I knew nearly nothing about shotgun shells, although after watching a couple of these, Im less irritated (or confused) about what seemed like a chaotic classification system (at best), and it makes more sense. Thanks for posting
Wow more than I needed very well done and exactly what I needed on to the 590A1. Thanks again
I love how you use Duck Hunter to explain shot!!!
This is a great video and shows me where my terminology has been embarrassingly incorrect for many, many years. Cheers on you sir!
Thank you very, very much for putting together this study and video - bravo!
Quite a lot of information in a well explained format. What an asset to shooters and reloaders. Thank you for your work.
WOW, this video was EXCELLENT and exactly what I was looking for. You earned a new sub. Thanks man!
I am a beginner shooter hunter, stil doing the course before they will let me out to do some hunting. Your video’s have been highly enlightening giving understanding in an initially very complicated subject.. thanks for taking the time to do this... there must be a lot of people benefitting from the content.. Thanks also for the free PDF with the lists etc...
Yeah, I remember taking my first hunter's ed course way back in 3rd or 4th grade. The instructor explained the general concept of shotgun shot, then passed around a sort of clear acrylic hockey puck with a dozen or so of the more popular sizes embedded in it. It was a nice visual aid, but of course it didn't do anything to help explain how the numbers and letters related to anything. Hunting as a kid, I just used whatever shells the adults handed to me; but when I went to buy my first shotgun and tried to buy some shells at the same time, I was clueless, and even the employees working there couldn't explain it to me. I ended up just walking out of the store with a shotgun and nothing to feed it.
It took a fair bit of reading to unravel everything. Glad to hear my efforts are aiding other newcomers.
Synchronizor What you did is called self education , or auto-didactism . It's the act of researching a subject and teaching oneself . Everyone has some ability to learn from others . Some have the ability to teach others . Few have the ability to research a subject and teach themselves . You , Sir , are an autodidact . You also have the ability to teach others what you have learned .
Autodidacticism. Neat; sounds fancy. I may just add that to my résumé once I figure out how to pronounce it properly.
Thank you . there is a lot there that I did not know. I have had college professors who could not deliver a lesson that clear and concisely.
Thanks, appreciate the documentary format. Pruno
Wow thank you very much. I have listen to the first video and now this video they are exceptional. Very clear very concise. Watching more thank you thank you thank you
Awesome videos! Learned a lot from this video and the first one, too
WOW thank you for taking the time to build the chart!!! Cant wait for the slug vid
Me like the slugs and 000 buck. a trusty 870 with 000 and slugs beside the bed helps me get a good nights rest!!
I tend to prefer smaller buckshot for close-range social work. Pretty much any buckshot size has enough penetration for humans at indoor distances (barring really low-velocity or low-density loads), and the additional pellets give a greater chance of at least one finding a critical internal structure and causing a fast or instant stop.
Still, I can't imagine anyone easily shaking off the equivalent of 8+ simultaneous hits from a .380 ACP, and one advantage with those big 000B pellets is that they can let you reach through barriers like walls or auto glass while still retaining good terminal effectiveness.
You should write a book I’d definitely buy it. Easy to understand information
What a wealth of knowledge. You could be a researcher for one of the shotgun ammunition companies or some organization, university, etc. I learned a lot, thank you. But now I'm unsure of what type of shotgun ammo a LEO was referring to when he gave me advice about which type to use for self defense. I met a LEO with 30 years of experience who also trains women in firearm shooting. He may have mentioned shotguns but I don't remember. He offered me suggestions when he saw me analyzing various shotgun ammo at Walmart. He suggested that I shouldn't get anything below #4 for home/self defense, but I'm not sure if he meant buck or birdshot. I currently have 00B followed by #8 birdshot loaded in sequence in my standard 500 Mossberg. But as as a result of what that LEO suggested, I purchased 3 boxes of 3 different #4 birdshot ammo because I mostly have #8 birdshot and a few low-recoil slugs that were purchased primarily for indoor range shooting at a place that only allows you to shoot your shotgun if you use slugs. I'm concerned about over penetrating even with the low-recoil slugs since Im surrounded by homes and a park, so I won't use it for home defense. #4 birdshot the smallest number they had. Otherwise I would have gotten buckshot or something smaller than #4. As a result of doing research on shotgun ammo and especially after watching your #1 video and this one, I became interested in my shotgun one again. I just stated to learn and use the AR platform but I now have a renewed interest in the shotgun platform.
I know a lot of folks recommend #4 birdshot, but I've seen tests that show it simply doesn't have the penetration needed to reliably stop human-sized critters. Add in clothing, and some extra distance (the smaller a pellet is, the faster it loses velocity in flight), and you're most likely just going to cause a painful surface wound. Now, that very well could cause an attacker or home invader to change their mind, but it's not going to *force* them to stop if they're really determined. It's their choice to either push through it and keep trying to get you, or run away and walk themselves to the hospital. If it was my life, or the lives of my family on the line, I wouldn't want to leave that decision up to the threat.
The thing to understand is that with round pellets, penetration increases with pellet size and pellet velocity. Increase or decrease pellet size, and you have to decrease or increase velocity to balance it out and achieve the same penetration. With buckshot, the pellets are big enough to penetrate into a human's vitals at normal shotgun muzzle velocities.
Personally, I like #4 buckshot for HD. A 21-pellet high-velocity load puts a lot of holes in the target, and they go deep enough without having a lot left over. 21 pellets is lighter than more typical 27-pellet loads, meaning much less recoil (there's an exponential relationship between ejecta mass and recoil energy). Other good options are mid-velocity #1 buckshot loads, or low-velocity 00 buckshot loads. These loads also balance pellet size with velocity to give enough penetration for close-range defense against humans. In police shootings, these are the types of buckshot loads that most commonly end in a dead or incapacitated assailant, with pellets that have penetrated all the way through the torso to stop at - or just barely through - the skin or clothing on the opposite side. With faster buckshot loads intended for battlefield use at longer ranges, law enforcement shootings where the pellets need to reach through car bodies or windshields, or hunting game animals that are much larger than humans, you're more likely to wind up with enough extra penetration to potentially cause issues.
That said, I think people worry about overpenetration more than they should. The safest thing to do in a defensive shooting is to bring it to an end as quickly as possible, and the best way to do that is with effective ammunition and a good HD plan.
Thanks for your information. It really helps a lot. I guess I responded to this message on your other TH-cam video, #1. I will probably have to go to gun stores and not Walmart to find the kind of desirable and effective loads you suggest. They will be pricy compared to what I'm used to buying but it's important to be properly prepared with adequate ammo. Here's something that I found on a website from AR15.com regarding ammo for specific purposes:
"Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.
Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive."
You can't just say #1 buckshot is better because it has more total cross-sectional area than 00. For one thing, that math is comparing a 16-pellet #1 load to a 9-pellet 00B load, and that 00B load only has about 75% as much lead as the #1. If you compare a 12-pellet 00B load to a 16-pellet #1 load, you get very close to the same amount of lead, and the difference in cross-sectional area is roughly 10%. But as you'd expect, the same amount of mass with less surface area goes to show how the larger 00B pellets can penetrate to the same depth with less impact velocity.
There's no one load that's best for every situation. #1 buck is a fine choice, but so is low-recoil 00B and high-velocity #4B. Pick bigger pellets if you want to keep as much penetration as possible at longer ranges or through light barriers, and small pellets for maximum pattern saturation at closer ranges. #1B strikes a nice balance between those two extremes, but it's tough to find in stores, especially if you want the lower-recoil 12-pellet load instead of the standard 16-pellet deer load.
Wow, there certainly is a lot to consider. Thanks again for your info. I went ahead and rearranged the ammo in my shotgun with just one type. I now have only 00B Suprema with 9 pellets. I don't know the FPS or velocity, but they're the only suitable self-defense shot shells I currently own. The #8s will be used only for sports or plinking(?), and the three boxes of #4 birdshot for backup and plinking/sports as well. I will reconsider my options after rereading what you wrote and doing more research. I guess I'll have to purchase from several buckshot loads that are suitable for self defense and stick with the one(s) that I can handle the best, be it #4, #1, or 00B.
Awesome education and information. Thank you!
awesome! Thanks for the info. love the shirt by the way. Classic movie!
Very comprehensive! Love your videos.
Where you showed efficient pellet stacking in a 20 gauge and came up with the custom shot size of .283 as the perfect size I figured up that balls that are 46% of the theoretical bore size are perfect for getting layers of 3. Im trying to figure up a way to do this for .410 and came up with .1886, I'm wondering if using BBB, .19 would work or if I'd have to use BB. Maybe they make .188?
I just scored an old school Mossberg 183DF, bolt action, 3 shot .410 (3" chamber) and want to work up defensive load but don't want to go with birdshot, a 3 pellet 000 buck or a pathetic 1/4 oz slug. I'm thinking going with 11/16 oz of BBB which comes up to roughly 27 to 30 pellets, but it'll probably be more like 24, I hope this makes sense!
Keep in mind that if you're loading these pellets inside a standard plastic wad, you'll need to size them per the internal diameter of the shotcup, not the bore diameter.
But even if they're stacked like buckshot, BB or BBB are still kinda small pellets for large critters like people. I would say a buckshot load would be a better bet if you want to defend yourself with a .410. Not as many pellets, but at least you know they'll go deep enough to matter. I've seen some .410 shells that are loaded with #4 buckshot. No idea if they'll pattern worth a damn since .24-caliber pellets can't stack properly in a shell that size, but maybe it would work for real close-range.
Your video makes me feel like I’m going to college. Lots of data.
Thanks 🙏
🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸
Very thorough. Thanks a lot for taking the time in presenting this video!
Thank you. Best video explaining so far.
Thank you for making a video that actually explains everything! Everyone else just says "buck is big and bird small, dur hur"
Excellent video brother 🤙🏻
Thank you. This was worth the watch.
Very concise and informative , thanks for the video
THIS HAS BEEN SOME GREAT INFORMATION ,I DID NOT KNOW BUCKSHOT WAS SO VAST AND I KNOW THAT I,M ONLY SCRATCHING THE SURFACE,AND IT,S A CHALLENGE BUT I LIKE TO FIND THE CAUSE OF MY IGNORANCE AT ALL COST. THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO -SYNCHRONIZOR.
You know your stuff. Great job.
Great job you answered so many of my questions. Thank you.
This is very well done! Thanks for the information.
Great video series and information. Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into making these!
Great video. Really appreciate the work you put into this. Very helpful.
Wow! Great job. Greatly helped me! Thank you
Absolutely fantastic and informative video sir!! bravo!! Well done and thank you for the valued info!! Def just earned a new sub
...outstanding video, thanks for sharing.
Once again amazing video.
Great video! Best I've seen on this topic. Thanks!!
You just earned a subscriber.
Thank you for the concise and detailed video
Excellent, great info for me as a new shooter
Great presentation.
Wow! You're a shotgun expert!
Awesome video brother. Great information. Keep'em coming.
GREAT SERIES!!!
Excellent concise video
Thanks for the info. Great teaching video. Found it to be very informative. Keep it up, and remember, Be Safe and have Fun!
Great video! New to reloading shot shells 👍🏽👌🏽🙏🏽
Really good analysis. I'm impressed.
thanks for an extremely helpful and organized instructional video....a topic perhaps for another time is the use of buffers and plated shot for the control of shot dispersion in cylinder bore barrels...thanks!
+matt rowland Buffering is something I plan to talk about at some point. Plated shot will probably get mixed into a future video on shot materials.
very good, much appreciated
Thanks for all your hard work! Terrific videos!
Love your shirt!!
Excellent video!
An excellent presentation! Well done!
Thanks brother. That was super helpful.
Thanks for the info! Great video!
Thx for the Video. Is there another source for the PDF? Not keen on all the pop ups trying to invade my phone.
You, sir, are my hero
Very good video, very clear. Thanks for your work !
Excellent presentation. Very informative
Thank you! I’ve been shooing for over twenty years and never could sort out all this. I really appreciate it. Maybe you could present some of the developmental reasoning for all the variance in another video. For instance, wth is dust shot and what is that for?? Cool bro. Great video.
Used to be, birdshot was mainly manufactured using a drop process; molten lead would be dribbled through a screen to fall for a ways (assuming a round shape in flight) before landing in water to solidify. That process tended to create a mix of various sizes, and those were then sorted for use or sale. Since dust shot is not a specific size, but instead anything below a certain maximum, I assume it was what folks tended to call the leftover tiny pellets left over after the more defined sizes had been screened out.
It wouldn't be useful for much besides small pests at very close range. Or maybe non-shotgun uses like weights or ballast.
@@SynchronizorVideos fascinating! Thank you.
you wouldnt have happend to do this for rifle or pistol or possibly both calibers? this is amazingly well made and descriptive
This was a great resource for me.
Thanks for the excellent clarity.
Very well done video. Excellent.
Thank you for the guide and great video👍🏾
Amazing video series, a true teacher with useful information. Quick question, would you recommend replacing the trigger on the 870 express with the police metal trigger assembly? Any opinion on this? Ty
+Alan Ursino I prefer the polymer trigger plates. The metal 870 trigger plates are made from compressed powdered aluminum, which isn't nearly as strong or impact-resistant as billet aluminum; in fact, it's quite brittle. Quality polymers, on the other hand, can be much tougher since they can flex and absorb impacts, and then return to their original shape in most cases. I've not seen actual testing comparing the different 870 trigger plates, but Ruger switched from similar compressed aluminum trigger groups to polymer awhile back, and as shown in this video (th-cam.com/video/biMkNYWAzIk/w-d-xo.html), the polymer parts are clearly much tougher.
The trigger plate designs in some other shotguns favor metals because they serve some function or have some mechanical feature that wouldn't work as well if made from plastic. Trigger plates for the Mossberg 500, for example, are held in the receiver by two small molded-in tabs that can fatigue and break off if made from polymer, and the trigger plate for the Ithaca 37 also contains the threads for the stock bolt. But 870 trigger groups are self-contained, non-stressed assemblies secured in the gun's steel receiver by two steel pins that pass through steel bushings set solidly in the trigger plate, so there isn't any structurally weak area where a plastic trigger plate can readily fatigue and fail, while the aluminum version wouldn't.
In addition to toughness, the polymer 870 trigger plates are very good at hiding wear or scratches since the polymer is black all the way through. Look at the trigger guard on any well-used Police 870 or older Wingmaster, and you'll clearly see every single scratch and scrape, since the aluminum is bright silver under the black paint.
As far as the mechanical stuff goes, Express trigger plate assemblies are virtually identical to Police assemblies. Police assemblies may have one or two heavier springs simply because folks tend to want a heavier trigger pull or stiffer carrier in a combat gun than in a hunting gun; and for a few years Expresses had special (and stupid) locking safety buttons that could be locked in the safe position with a special key. But apart from those differences (which can easily be addressed if desired by simply replacing those parts), Express & Police trigger plate assemblies use the same parts made from the same materials and manufactured to the same quality standards.
In my 870, I use an Express trigger plate assembly (polymer trigger plate) with a few Marine Magnum parts (which are more corrosion-resistant) swapped in, and I use different sear springs for different applications, depending on how heavy or light I want the trigger pull to be.
The rain man of the shotty. Dilly Dilly!
Very informative and well presented.
Is that game in the video real? ^_^ Excellent explanation about the difference between birdshot and buckshot and how they are used. It brings to mind the difference between canister and grapeshot in the days of muzzle-loading black powder cannon - a canister load would be a large number (dozens, maybe a hundred or more) musket-ball sized projectiles, while grapeshot was a small number (9,12, etc.) of larger balls stacked carefully in a certain way, with a round baseplate and an over-plate connected together with some sort of rod, and usually covered in cloth. Grape was for naval use, since there was wood that had to be penetrated, while canister was used against massed infantry.
iskandartaib You've never played Duck Hunt?
@@SynchronizorVideos I'm afraid not.. ^_^ Maybe I'll go look for it.