This game actually looks pretty cool. A lot of game makers don't take chances which should be obvious to take like 4 active players in a fighting game. Very cool.
lol akuma is top tier. And should be strong. Agreed. Probably the only one I allow being OP. But I main slow heavy grapplers. My characters should be strong because they’re slow. But these developers make the super fast characters also strong so using slow characters is almost just a handicap
Who I think deserves a mention is kabal from mortal kombat. He hasn't been in too many games, but the ones he appears in he always just seems very strong at a competitive level
I assume we both watched the same video by Ketchup & Mustard, because yeah, he’s consistently very powerful. Sonya’s the one who can probably reach for that crown as well, but even she couldn’t literally invalidate half the casts’ existence.
Smoke also seems to be really good in most games probably just behind Kabal. Noob Saibot is basically MK's Akuma.JC and Lao have been consistently good as well. But yeah Kabal is probably the one i'd put on the list as well.
A good one to add is pikachu, he was top 1 in 64, a high tier in melee, a high tier in brawl, a high tier in smash 4 and was once again top tier in ultimate
I mean I agree but melee is pushing it imo without axe pickachu he doesn’t really have representation. But melee do be like that with a lot of characters.
@@leandroborrego9780 kim’s not as consistently top tier, afaik he’s only been considered top tier in kof 2002, XIII, svc chaos and neo geo battle coliseum
For Guilty Gear, a good example of a character who's been strong for the entire series would be Chipp. Top 3 in Missing Link, just outside the Top 3 in +R, around high tier in Xrd, and has been top tier in multiple points of Strive's history, with the strongest probably being near the end of Season 2. Despite having the lowest health, Chipp is one of the fastest characters in an already fast paced fighting game series, and usually has access to many different good tools for both offense (cross up specials, command grab, teleports) and defense (DP, invuln super). He's basically GG's Akuma in terms of a high risk, high reward character.
Goes for basically every game. Token blitz characters will always be good because of frame data. Fox, Strider, Chipp, Eddie are always at least higher mid tier.
Actually I heard from missing link players that chipp is actually top 1 And in xrd depending on who you ask he's arguably top 3 and Teresa, the best jam player in the world considers him top 1 in ac r although a lot of ppl disagree, but yeah I agree my boy chipp should have been on here
For a while, Faust actually had consistently been a Top 5 character in every single GG after Missing Link. He struggled a bit on launch in Strive, then gradually got stronger as the game went on and sits in a comfortable spot right outside Top 10.
It checks out that Zero is always great, its hard to make a fast character with disjointed sword normals BAD. His very character concept is made for a top tier.
Zero just has so much going for him naturally that makes him a perfect fighting game character. Visually he looks very cool and sleek, his ponytail and trails from his beam sword offer so many opportunities to animate smooth actions that are visually appealing, and being from a series of action platformers, he has an inherent sense of mobility and speed with his moves. Also having weapons like the zero buster and beam sword means he has plenty of disjointed hitboxes. It’s pretty amazing how consistently good he is but it makes so much sense when you think about it
Unblockable set ups, has one of the best DM in the game, infinites through 1 move, loopable grab which is potentially inescapable and godlike normals. His minor weaknesses are that uncharged buster does zero chip, small hp pool and supers are average, not that it really matters because they are mostly combo enders anyway
Just starting the video but this is best sponsor you've ever had. Love seeing the support coming from a product that's actually relevant to your content!
I know he's not the most popular but I think Gato would have fit in nicely. Very High Tier in Garou and KOF 2003. Top 3 character in KOF XI. And was top tier in KOF XV when he released until he got the nerf hammer lmao
I was just thinking about him lol, kinda sad no one talks about him when he has some crazy bullshit going on like the mobility and how fast he builds meter in Garou. I hope SNK makes him a top tier again in City of the Wolves hehe
I dont exactly have an example, but I often think about Zato/Eddie from guilty gear for lists like this, because Zato always starts off as one of the strongest characters in the initial version of every game he's been in, before eventually being patched into being not very good. It's a trend that I think just shows how hard it is to design a puppet character.
About 10 years ago i was designing (largely on paper) a 3 lane fighting game. It got overwhelming for me to develop on my own, but I'm glad someone had the same idea. I'll give Diesel a shot
I would also put Iori Yagami from King of Fighters, it all begin in 95 and from there he is almost always one of the top characters, the only game i can recall right now were he wasn't good was in kof xiii, until he became a top tier again with his dlc
Iori Yagami in King of Fighters! His iconic standard moves are just great tools to have, so he's very often on the top tier, or at the very least, a good solid pick.
There is a case for Pikachu and Fox on smash games. Iori is also aways top tier. Now, Bowser is technically a fighting game character, because of smash, but I would like to make his case for being top tier in 4 different Mario Kart games: Super, Super Circuit, 7 and 8. In super and super circuit he is the undisputed top 1. In MK7 he has some WRs, and shares the same class and stats with Metal Mario, who has the most WRs. In MK8 it's the same thing, sharing stats and class with Morton (most WRs) while also having some WRs of his own. MK64 and Double Dash favors light characters, unlucky. In MKWii he shares the weight class with Funky, but funky is just too good, and much better than Bowser. You can argue that he is top/high tier in MK8DX, lots of WRs in the past but not that good on recent patches anymore. Thanks for reading my stupid off topic comment lmao
It's so funny to me that Fox is always good regardless of engine, even in the much slower brawl the man is able to stall in the air very well and for the most part is solid against everyone, just not shiek
@@illford lightning kicks included, Fox is just like Chun Li. He is good at the stuff that makes a Smash character good just like she is good at the stuff that makes a character good on Street Fighter.
Rachel Alucard for BlazBlue is always top tier it's usually due to her rather good zoing, setplay and corner carry because of her gimmick where she can control the winds which mean she can kind of do whatever she wants
@@googleguy-ft8xh there was also UMVC3 Chun-Li, however she also is part of one of the best teams if you have good execution in Chun-Li/Morrigan/Phoenix, crazy meter build, able to stall out for an entire match and all 3 can be anchors if need be, whilst Phoenix is by far the best Morrigan is OK (does miss having a true assist) and Chun Li just seems too fast to comprehend
Akuma's a bit weird in MVC games, but he's pretty good in UMVC3 specifically. His air super is excellent at chipping away at the opponent's health from far away. Cancel it into X-Factor and do another one to do legitimately scary damage on block.
An interesting thing about Akuma in SvC Chaos is that because of the four button set-up, you can jump kick an opponent and then connect into a Raging Demon almost instantaneously, meaning that hit or whiff there's no time for the opponent to punish or dodge the RD.
I don't blame people for not knowing the extended history of every single KoF game because there's a ton of them and they get weird and not many people play all of them, but all of the people saying Iori is always top tier is funny, because besides there being tons of games where he isn't, including a bunch of the biggest competitive entries in KoF, it's an easily disproven notion because he's literally not top tier right now in the current game being played actively. I think he deserves to be in the discussion of consistently strong and dominant characters because he is, but in the pantheon of "KoF games people care about" 98, 02, 98UMFE, 02UM, XI, XIII, XIV, and XV, he's top tier in three of them, 98/UMFE and XIII. The rest he's strong but like upper mid to low high.
@@DaDonroy101 tbh KoF gets so many revisions and updates, even in the classic series getting a new game every year, that no one is really just top tier all the time always. Characters have traditionally always gone up and down with new versions, the best you can rely on are characters who are consistently very strong, like Kyo, Iori, Robert, Geese, Chris, K', Yashiro, and like a couple others. They might not be the absolute top, but they're never bad and hardly if ever average.
Generally the reasons these characters rise to the top is a combo of power level for the rest of the cast and how they play into or break the game, thats what I think. Akuma is a good example, the reason he is so strong is he is a character in a game where ground footsies matter a ton… who plays in the air a lot. That is incredibly strong and kinda breaks the flow, it makes his design incredibly strong. Then there is chun, who plays perfectly into the main focuses of any sf game just about, for reasons you already mentioned. Then there is zero, in umvc3 specifically he breaks the game because of his unprecedented neutral and impeccable punish, he plays incredibly well into the design of the game while also breaking its design through his buster by having great buttons, ambiguous crossup, and the ability to cancel specials into buster, plus having twin dream as well for better combos
12:02 I was waiting for this part lol. Two days ago for the very first time ever in ANY Street Fighter game, I got master rank with Akuma. I am certified TRASH in fighting games but i love me some SF and my boy Akuma. So I always appreciate good talk about him. 🤣
Akuma has the asterisk that he's not great in the MVC games, but past that he's got an amazing track record, even into other crossover appearances like in Tekken
Nightmare from Soul Calibur. I think he is a really good example of a 3D character who is almost always top tier. Not only does Nightmare wreck beginners, but he's often top tier (or at least viable) at a high level. I believe he is considered top tier in SC2 and SC6 which have the most competitive play. And I don't think there has ever been a game where Nightmare is considered bad. Huge damage, huge range, surprisingly fast, stance mix-ups, cheesy ringouts, big boi has it all. You really can't go wrong by picking Nightmare.
Maybe Ivy from Soul Calibur. Her move set has a lot of tools for most situations and I’m pretty sure she has been the best character or close in all the games.
For Tekken, Feng Wei is probably a good pick here. He's not only consistently good, he's consistently "very" good. His execution requirements are very low, yet you get a whole lot out of optimization.
How the hell did Arakune not get mentioned? It's basically Blazblue's version of Akuma, where they overtuned the shit out of Zero Vector (the curse) and figured "ah, give it poor health, that'll balance it."
for tekken, arguable steve has been high or top tier in every tekken game, devil jin is also a goog character to bring up. For the smash series im fairly certain that fox is always good/great or top tier. I'd like to see some soul calibur representation too!
both Devil Jin and steve got worse as more Tekken games released, especially in 7 where dvj was good for a season or two and then was nerfed into shit. Steve has not been great for the majority of time T8 has been out.
Fox's worst showing was Brawl where he was just about mid-tier, but is a top 10 character everywhere else (even in Brawl he's top 15 which is really close). Pikachu as well has never dropped below B-tier in Smash. Marth is a bit of a weird case because he's very close to being top tier in every game he's appeared in but got kneecapped in Ultimate and became a mid-tier. However Lucina, who uses his moveset except for not having a tipper, is a high tier in that game and essentially his replacement in comp play. In spirit he's always good, just not actuality.
Ok I do think fox from smash bros deserves a special mention, even though smash is not a traditional fighting game, fox has been a top 10 character in even smash game and his lowest ranking was in brawl where he was a top 15 character. I just think it deserved to be mentioned
Akuma was actually kind of bad in MvC 2, though that was generally a case of street fighter characters not really being able to deal with what that game became
Kinda? Sentinel can pretty much one touch him with some bar for no good reason. To be fair, he wasn't good in any of the previous Marvel style games either, even XvSF.
12:19 , the only games where Akuma is 'bad' are the vs series, and even then he's okay, just not as good as the top tiers. Hell, Justin won an Evo with akuma.
Guess he's more arc sys and Capcom focused and hasn't had too much experience with mortal Kombat. But there are several characters that have been consistently good across the series. Johnny,Lao,Noob Saibot and Smoke come to mind. Kabal would probably take it though with Smoke being a close second.
It's funny that Chun-Li is now known to be exceptionally strong in her ground game as when we were all scrubbing it up as kids in SFII, we were just jump kicking, foot stomping and wall jumping all over the place with her to get our Ws.
Jin and Carl were always monsters in Blazblue from what I remember, and Akira, Sarah, and Jacky have been consistent top 5s in most Virtua Fighter entries. Kabal from MK is another contender if Ketchup and Mustard's videos are anything to go off of.
RyanLV made Chun-Li look top tier in UMVC3. I think it's just because no one played her but once you found out how strong she can be, she was upper tier.
i think she's not the worst but i think she's so difficult that it actually is a problem especially since in XF3 she's really hard to control, she also just has the most bizzare TAC infinite I(besides Jill's weird grounded infinite) considering it seems if you have the skill everything works. Her other big issue is really that she has minimal damage output but with the one team with Morrigan and Phoenix this isn't really a big deal since she's just meter build I think she's really good if you play that team otherwise you need to find a similar character who just wants meter for comebacks, maybe Vergil but Doom/Vergil is already there
The biggest surprise of GG Strive is that the game managed to make Millia and Faust bad on release. You know who has NEVER been bad in 25 YEARS of Guilty Gear ? Millia and Faust. They're top5 in almost every version of XX and Xrd.
My favorite anecdote is that there *is* a game that Zero is a low tier in: Smash Ultimate! Zero’s a Mii Swordfighter costume there, and MSF is pretty universally considered low tier. This logic also applies to perennial high tier Narukami as well!
i def think that devil jin shoud've been the tekken pick. tekken 3 and tag 1 are basically devil jins moveset and they are both top 1. In t5 he's top 3, in t5dr he's top 1, tekken 6 he is very high tier, tekken tag 2 he's top 3, and for a majority of t7 lifespan he was top tier until his brutal nerfs in s5, and t8 is a definite high tier char. steve is also similar, but steve had points where he has has only been decent. also iori should be here :)
I sincerely think Nago wasn't supposed to be on the list... Like yeah, he's high tier in Strive, but it's also the ONLY game he's in! Can't say he's broken in every game when he's only been on one...
Sales factor might play a role. In San Diego comicon capcom highlighted some figures of merch and mega-man was a big seller. So it's natural they'd want to increase exposure by people picking mega-man in the fighting games he appears in by making him top tier. If they make him awful to play as people would associate the character with negativity and less likely to purchase merch. Just my thoughts.
For Akuma, I heard that he is not very strong in MvC2, and he is only a mid, maybe high tier in MvC3. Also while Akuma was strong for most of SFV's lifetime, he is considered to be mid to upper mid tier by the final version of the game; the nerfs he took while being in an inherently aggressive Street Fighter game, took a toll on him. Since I have a background in Smash, the series has had quite a few characters that qualifies for the list. (Long post incoming) Pikachu comes to mind immediately, as the character has been viable in every Smash game. It started strong by being the best character in Smash 64 with even talks of being banworthy at one point in the late 2010s. Its lowest point was Melee, where it was a niche upper mid to high tier character. Brawl has it as a top 10 character; a niche technical character with some absolutely nutty stuff. SSB4 has it as a solid high tier throughout the entirety of the game's life. It started Ultimate being seen as potentially the best character in the game by the community, although it has since then dropped off to instead be a strong top 15-20 character, with some players still insisting to this very day that it can be a top 10 character. Fox is another character. The character was a menace in Smash 64 back when Hyrule Castle was a legal stage, and while he is still a pretty good character today, he has definitely fallen off quite a bit. He is seen today at around the 5th-6th spot in the list (reminder that Smash 64 is a 12 character roster). He roared back with a vengeance in Melee as the undisputed best character, with some of the highest usage of any character in Smash history, and the many things that would define the character started here. Brawl would see him drop off to upper mid to high tier status, but he is seen as a pretty good character, especially towards the end of the game's life as he is one of the better characters in the game against God himself (Meta Knight). He is notably ranked much higher in Japanese tier lists in that game. Both SSB4 and Ultimate would see him return as a strong top tier character; more niche in Ultimate in terms of representation, but strong nevertheless. Sheik has a more shaky history than the above two, but has been a consistently good to strong threat. She debuted as a top tier character in Melee throughout the entirety of the game's history, even being the best character in super early Melee (early to mid 2000s). Brawl saw her power level decrease greatly to be a mid tier character, but she has had strong supporters throughout the game's life. She is ranked notably higher in not only in Japanese tier lists, but also in the recent Brawl Community Tier List to be more upper mid tier. Still a good character here, but very niche. SSB4 returned her power level to top tier status. She is a top 5 character in the final version of the game, but she was the best character in the game prior to her nerfs in the final major balance patch. As a matter of fact, her vanilla self at the launch of the game is one of the most busted Smash characters to ever exist (and in my opinion, the 2nd most busted in history underneath Brawl Meta Knight). In Ultimate, she was actually a pretty weak character at the launch of the game, but she has since then been heavily buffed to be a solid high tier character, with a handful of top players even believing her to be a potential top tier. Peach, like Sheik, has appeared in 4/5 Smash games. She has never reached the peak power levels of the other characters listed here aside from ZSS, but with the Float mechanic, an inherently strong mechanic that gives her options no character in the series has access to, she has been pretty good to strong in all of her appearances. She debuted as a solid high tier in Melee, with some of the most disgusting tools a Smash character has received (namely down smash). Brawl is her lowest placement, as she was a mid to upper mid tier character in that game, but still had Float shenanigans and greatly benefitted from that game's held item mechanics. SSB4 returned her to solid high tier status, with her placements even getting better towards the end of the game's life. Ultimate is her best standing, as she has been a top tier character throughout the entirety of the game's history, and so far has never dropped below the top 10. Diddy Kong has only been in 3/5 Smash games, but he has been strong in all 3. He was a strong top tier in both Brawl and SSB4, as he is often seen as the #3 character in pretty much every modern Brawl tier list and he is a top 5 character in the final version of SSB4. Both Brawl Diddy and vanilla SSB4 Diddy are two of the strongest Smash characters to date. Like Sheik, Diddy entered Ultimate as a fairly weak character, but he has since then been heavily buffed. Diddy is currently a strong character in Ultimate, hovering over the top 15 to top 10 placements in most tier lists. Finally Zero Suit Samus. Like Diddy, she has only been in 3 Smash games. ZSS has never reached a peak power level similar to the above characters (minus Peach), but she has never been below high tier in any of the three games. Brawl ZSS is a top 10 character that only got more popular as the game went on. SSB4 ZSS was a strong top tier throughout the game's life. Her vanilla self was one of the only characters that could reasonably stand up to the God tiers of vanilla SSB4. Ultimate ZSS started as a top tier, appearing in many player's top 3s for a long period of time, but the combination of nerfs and significant metagame shifts that did not favor the character, has since then dropped the character to only high tier status.
It's in Zero's contract that he never be bad in any game he's in. Even in the X series, Zero is always more fun to play over X or Axl any day of the week.
Idk if smash is considered a fighting game on this channel but fox would also be a good pick in maybe a sequel with his only noteable exception being in brawl and also is another case of mechanics being similar enough between games where having the same toolkit between games leads you to being in the upper tier list between them all
For Darkstalkers it has to be Sasquatch, every games hes top tier, even in the pseudo sequels of Vampire Savior hes still top tier. (except i guess Vsav2 since he got cut from the roster of that, though he's in Vhunt2 which is the same game but different roster)
Pardon the unpolite comment but, finally a good sponsor, that game looks so sick I actually put it on the Wishlist. I got sold when you said that it was free btw.
forgive me for Smash posting but Diddy Kong will literally never be bad because of his Banana. In Brawl he was top 2 or 3, in 4 he was top 1 pre-patch and top 3 or 4 post-patch, and in Ultimate, while in a much healthier spot, still wins majors all the time. No matter what they do to that little chimp his Banana and overall speed just make him automatically top tier I guess
I'd also add Steve from Tekken. Dude was the second most broken character in Tekken's history in T4 after T1 King while in T5 is the third and got banned(other top tiers from T4 got nerfed into oblivion). In T6 is S tier but not top 3. Tag2 is almost same. Vanilla T7 had 13 frame 70% dmg rage art for some reason and was S tier until last season. Unfotunately in T8 he is mid.
Play the FREE Diesel Legacy Demo and wishlist the game now: store.steampowered.com/app/1959140?Social& #DieselLegacy
The developers was from Brazil.. yeaah i will download NOW!
This game actually looks pretty cool. A lot of game makers don't take chances which should be obvious to take like 4 active players in a fighting game. Very cool.
Nago has been only on one game and one that has been divisive for the GG fanbase.
What a way to waste the example of the series 😂
Akuma is just lore accurate
lol akuma is top tier. And should be strong. Agreed. Probably the only one I allow being OP.
But I main slow heavy grapplers. My characters should be strong because they’re slow. But these developers make the super fast characters also strong so using slow characters is almost just a handicap
His fists know no equal. I cannot accept that Kazuya could have beaten him in T7.
@@DanmakuMaster Kazuya didn't really beat him so much as the devil form caught him off guard and then Kazuya underatandably fucked off
Bro Akuma literally killed is own brother.
(dunno if it's canon just saw it in an SF lore vid)
Oro should be as strong as him then
Who I think deserves a mention is kabal from mortal kombat. He hasn't been in too many games, but the ones he appears in he always just seems very strong at a competitive level
I assume we both watched the same video by Ketchup & Mustard, because yeah, he’s consistently very powerful. Sonya’s the one who can probably reach for that crown as well, but even she couldn’t literally invalidate half the casts’ existence.
Johnny Cage ?
@@Kara-de5cz he wasn't great in 11 for a long time due to his krushing blows being ass
@@sonnytapmansonya’s the eternal A-Tier
Kabal is basically the NRS Zero.
Smoke also seems to be really good in most games probably just behind Kabal. Noob Saibot is basically MK's Akuma.JC and Lao have been consistently good as well.
But yeah Kabal is probably the one i'd put on the list as well.
Haven't finished the video, but the three that immediately come to mind are Zero, Iori, and Akuma.
Maybe that's why Sakurai loves Iori.
He's just too good.
@@glacierwolf2155sakurai was an extremely sweaty kof98 player so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got a lot of hours on iori
yep
A good one to add is pikachu, he was top 1 in 64, a high tier in melee, a high tier in brawl, a high tier in smash 4 and was once again top tier in ultimate
I mean I agree but melee is pushing it imo without axe pickachu he doesn’t really have representation. But melee do be like that with a lot of characters.
I was thinking of Snake, who is top tier in both of his appearances
This is about fighting games. Smash is a party game.
@@ezmoney4598Weak bait
@@ezmoney4598 this is some vintage bait
No Iori Yagami ?he is top tier in the most games .
Shame 😢
I think there's just one game where he is mid but usually he's either good, broken or super broken.
there was that time in the 2000s where iori was mid tier in most games (svc, ngbc, kof xi, kof 02um) but i mean otherwise yeah lmao
And Kim Kaphwan ? Every time I see some KoF being played he is being picked.
@@leandroborrego9780 kim’s not as consistently top tier, afaik he’s only been considered top tier in kof 2002, XIII, svc chaos and neo geo battle coliseum
For Guilty Gear, a good example of a character who's been strong for the entire series would be Chipp. Top 3 in Missing Link, just outside the Top 3 in +R, around high tier in Xrd, and has been top tier in multiple points of Strive's history, with the strongest probably being near the end of Season 2. Despite having the lowest health, Chipp is one of the fastest characters in an already fast paced fighting game series, and usually has access to many different good tools for both offense (cross up specials, command grab, teleports) and defense (DP, invuln super). He's basically GG's Akuma in terms of a high risk, high reward character.
Goes for basically every game. Token blitz characters will always be good because of frame data. Fox, Strider, Chipp, Eddie are always at least higher mid tier.
Actually I heard from missing link players that chipp is actually top 1
And in xrd depending on who you ask he's arguably top 3 and Teresa, the best jam player in the world considers him top 1 in ac r although a lot of ppl disagree, but yeah I agree my boy chipp should have been on here
I think millia fit more in that description
chipp sucks in reload
For a while, Faust actually had consistently been a Top 5 character in every single GG after Missing Link. He struggled a bit on launch in Strive, then gradually got stronger as the game went on and sits in a comfortable spot right outside Top 10.
It checks out that Zero is always great, its hard to make a fast character with disjointed sword normals BAD. His very character concept is made for a top tier.
Zero just has so much going for him naturally that makes him a perfect fighting game character. Visually he looks very cool and sleek, his ponytail and trails from his beam sword offer so many opportunities to animate smooth actions that are visually appealing, and being from a series of action platformers, he has an inherent sense of mobility and speed with his moves. Also having weapons like the zero buster and beam sword means he has plenty of disjointed hitboxes. It’s pretty amazing how consistently good he is but it makes so much sense when you think about it
Zero was wild in SNK vs Capcom
Without a doubt
Unblockable set ups, has one of the best DM in the game, infinites through 1 move, loopable grab which is potentially inescapable and godlike normals. His minor weaknesses are that uncharged buster does zero chip, small hp pool and supers are average, not that it really matters because they are mostly combo enders anyway
2:48 Zero was also in Onimusha Blade Warriors on the Ps2.
he made his debut in SNK vs Capcom i believe
@@Ronan_-nd4ge yup, debuted in SVC Chaos where he was, to no one's surprise, also a top tier
@@Ronan_-nd4ge Yes, but SvC Chaos was made by SNK, so his first debut in a Capcom fighting game was actually Onimusha Blade Warriors.
@@t6y6fihu8hy9jjuhi (Where he was, of course, also top tier).
Thumbnail says "The first victim of a robot apocalypse says what?"
"What?" *Sudden realization*
"Oh f-"
@@NintendoKnight1 *Wily's Castle explodes. The only survivor: Gutsman's ass.*
Just starting the video but this is best sponsor you've ever had. Love seeing the support coming from a product that's actually relevant to your content!
I like how JM glossed over MvC:I lmaooooo
Zero is still top tier in that btw
he said he was top tier in MVCI
They call him Zero because even number one goes after him.
I wish Iori Yagami was included in this video, he has always been top tier since his debut in KOF95
I know he's not the most popular but I think Gato would have fit in nicely.
Very High Tier in Garou and KOF 2003. Top 3 character in KOF XI. And was top tier in KOF XV when he released until he got the nerf hammer lmao
I was just thinking about him lol, kinda sad no one talks about him when he has some crazy bullshit going on like the mobility and how fast he builds meter in Garou. I hope SNK makes him a top tier again in City of the Wolves hehe
Iori from KOF and kabal from Mortal Kombat deserved to be mentioned, perhaps in part II. Great vid as always!
Again SNK got forgotten :(
Iori is at minimum good at every game.
I dont exactly have an example, but I often think about Zato/Eddie from guilty gear for lists like this, because Zato always starts off as one of the strongest characters in the initial version of every game he's been in, before eventually being patched into being not very good. It's a trend that I think just shows how hard it is to design a puppet character.
You should do a list of dramatic changes for a character between patches/games, Saun from second impact to third strike comes to mind
About 10 years ago i was designing (largely on paper) a 3 lane fighting game. It got overwhelming for me to develop on my own, but I'm glad someone had the same idea. I'll give Diesel a shot
Zero is the definition of top tier by default
I would also put Iori Yagami from King of Fighters, it all begin in 95 and from there he is almost always one of the top characters, the only game i can recall right now were he wasn't good was in kof xiii, until he became a top tier again with his dlc
He was mid tier iirc in 02UM too. The man refuses to be ass ever and we love him for that
Iori Yagami in King of Fighters! His iconic standard moves are just great tools to have, so he's very often on the top tier, or at the very least, a good solid pick.
Thought for sure you would highlight how busted Akuma is in T7 too
you're right, missed opportunity 😭
@@jmcrofts Nah you being wild for ignoring Iori and putting Nago
I don't think I've met a single SF player who doesn't think Akuma is the coolest shit ever. Everyone loves Akuma... in 2D
I have never thought the angry little old guy in flip-flops was all that cool.
Exactly
IN 2D!
There is a case for Pikachu and Fox on smash games. Iori is also aways top tier.
Now, Bowser is technically a fighting game character, because of smash, but I would like to make his case for being top tier in 4 different Mario Kart games: Super, Super Circuit, 7 and 8.
In super and super circuit he is the undisputed top 1.
In MK7 he has some WRs, and shares the same class and stats with Metal Mario, who has the most WRs.
In MK8 it's the same thing, sharing stats and class with Morton (most WRs) while also having some WRs of his own.
MK64 and Double Dash favors light characters, unlucky.
In MKWii he shares the weight class with Funky, but funky is just too good, and much better than Bowser.
You can argue that he is top/high tier in MK8DX, lots of WRs in the past but not that good on recent patches anymore.
Thanks for reading my stupid off topic comment lmao
It's so funny to me that Fox is always good regardless of engine, even in the much slower brawl the man is able to stall in the air very well and for the most part is solid against everyone, just not shiek
@@illford lightning kicks included, Fox is just like Chun Li. He is good at the stuff that makes a Smash character good just like she is good at the stuff that makes a character good on Street Fighter.
Rachel Alucard for BlazBlue is always top tier it's usually due to her rather good zoing, setplay and corner carry because of her gimmick where she can control the winds which mean she can kind of do whatever she wants
JM saying "folks" is everything I need in a TH-cam video.
no Iori?? He's been top tier for 30 years now
I think the weakest Akuma is mvc2 where his low health means something
Same with Chun-Li!!
@@googleguy-ft8xh there was also UMVC3 Chun-Li, however she also is part of one of the best teams if you have good execution in Chun-Li/Morrigan/Phoenix, crazy meter build, able to stall out for an entire match and all 3 can be anchors if need be, whilst Phoenix is by far the best Morrigan is OK (does miss having a true assist) and Chun Li just seems too fast to comprehend
Akuma's a bit weird in MVC games, but he's pretty good in UMVC3 specifically. His air super is excellent at chipping away at the opponent's health from far away. Cancel it into X-Factor and do another one to do legitimately scary damage on block.
An interesting thing about Akuma in SvC Chaos is that because of the four button set-up, you can jump kick an opponent and then connect into a Raging Demon almost instantaneously, meaning that hit or whiff there's no time for the opponent to punish or dodge the RD.
I don't blame people for not knowing the extended history of every single KoF game because there's a ton of them and they get weird and not many people play all of them, but all of the people saying Iori is always top tier is funny, because besides there being tons of games where he isn't, including a bunch of the biggest competitive entries in KoF, it's an easily disproven notion because he's literally not top tier right now in the current game being played actively. I think he deserves to be in the discussion of consistently strong and dominant characters because he is, but in the pantheon of "KoF games people care about" 98, 02, 98UMFE, 02UM, XI, XIII, XIV, and XV, he's top tier in three of them, 98/UMFE and XIII. The rest he's strong but like upper mid to low high.
couldn't you consider Geese to be a better SNK example of strong in every game? If not who would you consider, maybe Kula?
@@DaDonroy101 tbh KoF gets so many revisions and updates, even in the classic series getting a new game every year, that no one is really just top tier all the time always. Characters have traditionally always gone up and down with new versions, the best you can rely on are characters who are consistently very strong, like Kyo, Iori, Robert, Geese, Chris, K', Yashiro, and like a couple others. They might not be the absolute top, but they're never bad and hardly if ever average.
@@JohnXuandou that makes a lot of sense, I wasn't too sure about consistency because i've only played 02UM, 13, and 15 hence why i'm asking
Yeah but he literally mentions Nagoriyuki who is literally a new character only in one game, Iori should have been mentioned
Iori was top tier in all KOF games until 2001, then resumed until XI, then back on top in XII and XIII. That's a pretty convincing number, son.
Generally the reasons these characters rise to the top is a combo of power level for the rest of the cast and how they play into or break the game, thats what I think.
Akuma is a good example, the reason he is so strong is he is a character in a game where ground footsies matter a ton… who plays in the air a lot. That is incredibly strong and kinda breaks the flow, it makes his design incredibly strong. Then there is chun, who plays perfectly into the main focuses of any sf game just about, for reasons you already mentioned. Then there is zero, in umvc3 specifically he breaks the game because of his unprecedented neutral and impeccable punish, he plays incredibly well into the design of the game while also breaking its design through his buster by having great buttons, ambiguous crossup, and the ability to cancel specials into buster, plus having twin dream as well for better combos
12:02 I was waiting for this part lol. Two days ago for the very first time ever in ANY Street Fighter game, I got master rank with Akuma. I am certified TRASH in fighting games but i love me some SF and my boy Akuma. So I always appreciate good talk about him. 🤣
jmcrofts, I'm addicted to your videos keep them flowing
Akuma has the asterisk that he's not great in the MVC games, but past that he's got an amazing track record, even into other crossover appearances like in Tekken
Nightmare from Soul Calibur. I think he is a really good example of a 3D character who is almost always top tier. Not only does Nightmare wreck beginners, but he's often top tier (or at least viable) at a high level. I believe he is considered top tier in SC2 and SC6 which have the most competitive play. And I don't think there has ever been a game where Nightmare is considered bad.
Huge damage, huge range, surprisingly fast, stance mix-ups, cheesy ringouts, big boi has it all. You really can't go wrong by picking Nightmare.
2:52 SVC Chaos says hello.
Maybe Ivy from Soul Calibur. Her move set has a lot of tools for most situations and I’m pretty sure she has been the best character or close in all the games.
For Tekken, Feng Wei is probably a good pick here. He's not only consistently good, he's consistently "very" good. His execution requirements are very low, yet you get a whole lot out of optimization.
Blazblue has a lot! One is Litchi
Carl was always consistently top tier too I think.
How the hell did Arakune not get mentioned? It's basically Blazblue's version of Akuma, where they overtuned the shit out of Zero Vector (the curse) and figured "ah, give it poor health, that'll balance it."
A couple exceptions for Akuma: in CVS2 , he's more toward the middle I believe, and in MVC2, he's genuinely low tier.
Alpha 2 Akuma FINALLY got hit.
But he was tops in EX1 around the same time so...
Diesel legacy sounds wild
Seeing that tekken 6 down 1 with Bob brought back nightmares
Bro forgot Iori Yagami. Literally there's like no KOF game or crossover game where he's A+ or S or the best character.
I'd put Iori over Nagoriyuki because Iori is just legacy good, for almost 30 years now
XI is the one game where picking him would hurt your team.
YES!! New upload always leaves me ROCK SOLID!!!!
When I saw the tekken 7 select screen I was fifty percent sure he was about to start talking about Akuma
for tekken, arguable steve has been high or top tier in every tekken game, devil jin is also a goog character to bring up. For the smash series im fairly certain that fox is always good/great or top tier. I'd like to see some soul calibur representation too!
Steve has been getting progressively worse every game
both Devil Jin and steve got worse as more Tekken games released, especially in 7 where dvj was good for a season or two and then was nerfed into shit. Steve has not been great for the majority of time T8 has been out.
Fox's worst showing was Brawl where he was just about mid-tier, but is a top 10 character everywhere else (even in Brawl he's top 15 which is really close).
Pikachu as well has never dropped below B-tier in Smash.
Marth is a bit of a weird case because he's very close to being top tier in every game he's appeared in but got kneecapped in Ultimate and became a mid-tier. However Lucina, who uses his moveset except for not having a tipper, is a high tier in that game and essentially his replacement in comp play. In spirit he's always good, just not actuality.
He is decaying as the time goes, in 8 he is low tier rn
@@jjm2711I'll rephrase I think steve and Devil jin should be honorable mentions
Ok I do think fox from smash bros deserves a special mention, even though smash is not a traditional fighting game, fox has been a top 10 character in even smash game and his lowest ranking was in brawl where he was a top 15 character.
I just think it deserved to be mentioned
Zero's first fighting game if i remember correctlywas Onimusha Blade warriors in 2003, though he was still top tier in that as well.
Akuma was actually kind of bad in MvC 2, though that was generally a case of street fighter characters not really being able to deal with what that game became
Kinda? Sentinel can pretty much one touch him with some bar for no good reason.
To be fair, he wasn't good in any of the previous Marvel style games either, even XvSF.
Thats whyi love the Nago vs Chipp matchup, because one is the strongest gg character of today and the other is the strongest gg character of all time
12:19 , the only games where Akuma is 'bad' are the vs series, and even then he's okay, just not as good as the top tiers. Hell, Justin won an Evo with akuma.
Storm and Logan won Evo, Akuma's leg had a backup role.
@@shishioh ya didnt call my mans backup leg when he did this th-cam.com/video/8WrJGw3Rc_Q/w-d-xo.html
Good to see all my mains (and Chun li) getting some love in this video.
The first character I thought of was Kabal in MK, but I get why you didn't mention him since K&M already did a great video on him
Guess he's more arc sys and Capcom focused and hasn't had too much experience with mortal Kombat. But there are several characters that have been consistently good across the series. Johnny,Lao,Noob Saibot and Smoke come to mind. Kabal would probably take it though with Smoke being a close second.
It's funny that Chun-Li is now known to be exceptionally strong in her ground game as when we were all scrubbing it up as kids in SFII, we were just jump kicking, foot stomping and wall jumping all over the place with her to get our Ws.
Jin and Carl were always monsters in Blazblue from what I remember, and Akira, Sarah, and Jacky have been consistent top 5s in most Virtua Fighter entries. Kabal from MK is another contender if Ketchup and Mustard's videos are anything to go off of.
RyanLV made Chun-Li look top tier in UMVC3. I think it's just because no one played her but once you found out how strong she can be, she was upper tier.
i think she's not the worst but i think she's so difficult that it actually is a problem especially since in XF3 she's really hard to control, she also just has the most bizzare TAC infinite I(besides Jill's weird grounded infinite) considering it seems if you have the skill everything works. Her other big issue is really that she has minimal damage output but with the one team with Morrigan and Phoenix this isn't really a big deal since she's just meter build
I think she's really good if you play that team otherwise you need to find a similar character who just wants meter for comebacks, maybe Vergil but Doom/Vergil is already there
The biggest surprise of GG Strive is that the game managed to make Millia and Faust bad on release.
You know who has NEVER been bad in 25 YEARS of Guilty Gear ? Millia and Faust. They're top5 in almost every version of XX and Xrd.
My favorite anecdote is that there *is* a game that Zero is a low tier in: Smash Ultimate! Zero’s a Mii Swordfighter costume there, and MSF is pretty universally considered low tier.
This logic also applies to perennial high tier Narukami as well!
For his tekken, I’m not doubting anything he said about bob, but law, marshal or forest, is solid in any iteration of the game
Zero is one of the most badass characters in all of fiction! He deserves to be top tier!
i def think that devil jin shoud've been the tekken pick. tekken 3 and tag 1 are basically devil jins moveset and they are both top 1. In t5 he's top 3, in t5dr he's top 1, tekken 6 he is very high tier, tekken tag 2 he's top 3, and for a majority of t7 lifespan he was top tier until his brutal nerfs in s5, and t8 is a definite high tier char. steve is also similar, but steve had points where he has has only been decent. also iori should be here :)
I appreciate Morrigan teaming up with the Thnikkaman.
Akuma so strong he was top 1 in tekken too
I sincerely think Nago wasn't supposed to be on the list... Like yeah, he's high tier in Strive, but it's also the ONLY game he's in! Can't say he's broken in every game when he's only been on one...
Pikachu in Smash
Fox in Smash (all but brawl)
Sagat (cvs2, sf2, sf4,)
Iori in KOF
Kabal in MK
Litchi in Blazblue
Hayabusa in DOA
Surprised there wasn't more about Akuma in Tekken 7. Street Fighter style high-low was downright nasty in that game.
Sales factor might play a role. In San Diego comicon capcom highlighted some figures of merch and mega-man was a big seller. So it's natural they'd want to increase exposure by people picking mega-man in the fighting games he appears in by making him top tier. If they make him awful to play as people would associate the character with negativity and less likely to purchase merch. Just my thoughts.
Zero was also in Onimusha Battle Warriors and probably also top tier in that game too!
For Tekken I would say Jin would probably fit better, or Steve.
Also, surprised you missed that Akuma was also top tier in Tekken
Jin was somewhat top tier to start. But it's been up and down for him from 5 onwards
jmcrofts, great job on this video
With the exception of maybe XI and 2002 UM, Iori Yagami has been top tier from all the KOF games.
Good video! Keep up the good work! :)
jmcrofts, you're a content legend
For Akuma, I heard that he is not very strong in MvC2, and he is only a mid, maybe high tier in MvC3. Also while Akuma was strong for most of SFV's lifetime, he is considered to be mid to upper mid tier by the final version of the game; the nerfs he took while being in an inherently aggressive Street Fighter game, took a toll on him.
Since I have a background in Smash, the series has had quite a few characters that qualifies for the list. (Long post incoming)
Pikachu comes to mind immediately, as the character has been viable in every Smash game. It started strong by being the best character in Smash 64 with even talks of being banworthy at one point in the late 2010s. Its lowest point was Melee, where it was a niche upper mid to high tier character. Brawl has it as a top 10 character; a niche technical character with some absolutely nutty stuff. SSB4 has it as a solid high tier throughout the entirety of the game's life. It started Ultimate being seen as potentially the best character in the game by the community, although it has since then dropped off to instead be a strong top 15-20 character, with some players still insisting to this very day that it can be a top 10 character.
Fox is another character. The character was a menace in Smash 64 back when Hyrule Castle was a legal stage, and while he is still a pretty good character today, he has definitely fallen off quite a bit. He is seen today at around the 5th-6th spot in the list (reminder that Smash 64 is a 12 character roster). He roared back with a vengeance in Melee as the undisputed best character, with some of the highest usage of any character in Smash history, and the many things that would define the character started here. Brawl would see him drop off to upper mid to high tier status, but he is seen as a pretty good character, especially towards the end of the game's life as he is one of the better characters in the game against God himself (Meta Knight). He is notably ranked much higher in Japanese tier lists in that game. Both SSB4 and Ultimate would see him return as a strong top tier character; more niche in Ultimate in terms of representation, but strong nevertheless.
Sheik has a more shaky history than the above two, but has been a consistently good to strong threat. She debuted as a top tier character in Melee throughout the entirety of the game's history, even being the best character in super early Melee (early to mid 2000s). Brawl saw her power level decrease greatly to be a mid tier character, but she has had strong supporters throughout the game's life. She is ranked notably higher in not only in Japanese tier lists, but also in the recent Brawl Community Tier List to be more upper mid tier. Still a good character here, but very niche. SSB4 returned her power level to top tier status. She is a top 5 character in the final version of the game, but she was the best character in the game prior to her nerfs in the final major balance patch. As a matter of fact, her vanilla self at the launch of the game is one of the most busted Smash characters to ever exist (and in my opinion, the 2nd most busted in history underneath Brawl Meta Knight). In Ultimate, she was actually a pretty weak character at the launch of the game, but she has since then been heavily buffed to be a solid high tier character, with a handful of top players even believing her to be a potential top tier.
Peach, like Sheik, has appeared in 4/5 Smash games. She has never reached the peak power levels of the other characters listed here aside from ZSS, but with the Float mechanic, an inherently strong mechanic that gives her options no character in the series has access to, she has been pretty good to strong in all of her appearances. She debuted as a solid high tier in Melee, with some of the most disgusting tools a Smash character has received (namely down smash). Brawl is her lowest placement, as she was a mid to upper mid tier character in that game, but still had Float shenanigans and greatly benefitted from that game's held item mechanics. SSB4 returned her to solid high tier status, with her placements even getting better towards the end of the game's life. Ultimate is her best standing, as she has been a top tier character throughout the entirety of the game's history, and so far has never dropped below the top 10.
Diddy Kong has only been in 3/5 Smash games, but he has been strong in all 3. He was a strong top tier in both Brawl and SSB4, as he is often seen as the #3 character in pretty much every modern Brawl tier list and he is a top 5 character in the final version of SSB4. Both Brawl Diddy and vanilla SSB4 Diddy are two of the strongest Smash characters to date. Like Sheik, Diddy entered Ultimate as a fairly weak character, but he has since then been heavily buffed. Diddy is currently a strong character in Ultimate, hovering over the top 15 to top 10 placements in most tier lists.
Finally Zero Suit Samus. Like Diddy, she has only been in 3 Smash games. ZSS has never reached a peak power level similar to the above characters (minus Peach), but she has never been below high tier in any of the three games. Brawl ZSS is a top 10 character that only got more popular as the game went on. SSB4 ZSS was a strong top tier throughout the game's life. Her vanilla self was one of the only characters that could reasonably stand up to the God tiers of vanilla SSB4. Ultimate ZSS started as a top tier, appearing in many player's top 3s for a long period of time, but the combination of nerfs and significant metagame shifts that did not favor the character, has since then dropped the character to only high tier status.
I love how the thumbnail changed to Zero lmao
The Akuma/Zero glass cannon big toolkit archetype gets flak for being consistently OP but I feel like 3S Akuma is very well designed
It's in Zero's contract that he never be bad in any game he's in. Even in the X series, Zero is always more fun to play over X or Axl any day of the week.
Since spiderman was in a game with akuma
Does that mean we might see him in the next Spider-Verse film?
Echoing the comments about Iori, who is probably THE habitual top tier of all time
Kyo and iori are always good in any game or at least high tier
Zero fist playable version is in onimusha blade warriors.
I believe Carl Clover has been top tier in every single iteration of Blazblue, including being tier-of-his-own busted in Calamity Trigger.
Idk if smash is considered a fighting game on this channel but fox would also be a good pick in maybe a sequel with his only noteable exception being in brawl and also is another case of mechanics being similar enough between games where having the same toolkit between games leads you to being in the upper tier list between them all
Killer Instinct - Fulgore seems to always be pretty solid in every game.
I love the king hocer for a sec. U know 1mil casuals cried out In unison "yes!! King always broken, my friend always doing the unblockables"
For Darkstalkers it has to be Sasquatch, every games hes top tier, even in the pseudo sequels of Vampire Savior hes still top tier. (except i guess Vsav2 since he got cut from the roster of that, though he's in Vhunt2 which is the same game but different roster)
Oh cool a sponsorship that actually seems interesting
Giving Akuma low health is just tradition now, not an actual attempt at balancing an unbalancable character
Pardon the unpolite comment but, finally a good sponsor, that game looks so sick I actually put it on the Wishlist. I got sold when you said that it was free btw.
A better example than Nago for GGST would be Happy Chaos.
That nearly 2 minute ad for Diesel Legacy 😩. It’s even more painful when you don’t have premium
No Iori Yagami was a WILD omission.
I was trying to think of SNK chars and you reminded me. Yea that guy is/was a staple pick.
forgive me for Smash posting but Diddy Kong will literally never be bad because of his Banana. In Brawl he was top 2 or 3, in 4 he was top 1 pre-patch and top 3 or 4 post-patch, and in Ultimate, while in a much healthier spot, still wins majors all the time. No matter what they do to that little chimp his Banana and overall speed just make him automatically top tier I guess
I'd also add Steve from Tekken. Dude was the second most broken character in Tekken's history in T4 after T1 King while in T5 is the third and got banned(other top tiers from T4 got nerfed into oblivion). In T6 is S tier but not top 3. Tag2 is almost same. Vanilla T7 had 13 frame 70% dmg rage art for some reason and was S tier until last season. Unfotunately in T8 he is mid.
for me johnny cage from mk is usually very strong, specially in the latest games. mkx, mk11, mk1