Easy Rust Removal: metal Prep
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Bare Metal Prep For Paint: Stop don't paint that until you've watched this!!!! In this rust removal how to Travis walks you through the steps used at Sylvester's Customs to ensure that rust is kept out of those paint jobs. Rust removal can be tricky because it can't always be seen in its early stages. Don't Primer over something that will cause issues down the road.
Mechanical Stripping Products
Eastwood SCT stripper: amzn.to/3gjtx5n
Eastwood SCT Abrasive Drum: amzn.to/3gjP1Pv (Best drum for stripping Paint)
Makita Sander: amzn.to/3KYbK1E
Stripper Disc For Makita Sander: amzn.to/3rnygcy
Die Grinder: amzn.to/3ojYhHK
Stripper Disc w/ adapter for Die Grinder: amzn.to/3rlbzpk
Chemical Stripping (for rust)
Bonderite I-C 79 AERO google search to find product
Bonderite M-ZN5 (discontinued)
Time Stamps
0:00 Intro
0:25 Overview
0:45 Mechanical stripping
2:04 Acid washing overview
7:57 Bonderite C-IC 79 Demonstration
14:04 Ending
2k primer diy auto school muriatic acid my friend pete - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
As a retired bodyman, I just want to give you my big congratulations! In my 35 years in the business I had a lot of training. From manufacturer to refinisher to restoration. I've worked in almost a dozen shops and none of them were as thorough with the handling of material or the vehicle it's used on as you are. Sometimes I would get in ferosous fights with the management or owners because I would be "too thorough". A couple fired me, I walked away from the others. GM trained, PPG trained and certified. Chevrolet certified, Buick Best in Class Award. ASE certified. And numerous other training sessions. I feel I've forgotten more than most techs will ever know. I always took pride in my work. Wouldn't let them change my habits or make me cut corners. Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't wrong with my procedures. More "experts" need your advice or training.
Most companies don’t have time to be too tech savvy. It’s about the bottom line and cutting cost. The dozen shops you work for they don’t wanna be precise it affects the bottom line. And their success would be critically hampered by doing things the right way. I understand you perfectly as I do I’m a stickler for doing things correctly. But in the fast moving world we sometimes do not have that much time..
@@MrCbell57 that's why I'm glad I'm retired now.
@@MrCbell57 I was always breaking book time on the jobs. 100+ hours in a 43 hour workweek? We were all profitable. Just personal conflicts with the managers. Didn't do things their way, so we argued.
@@mikemcgown6362 >Mike, I agree with you and your decision to spend time over and above the time that flat rate may pay for certain job. There are many mangers who are half out age, as some have tech school experience on a vehicle from being to end. While at the right place at the right time, find themselves in charge of say, 8 techs. The techs who actually produce a product either R&R, Body work, a guy who preps by cleaning & taping a vehicle paint ready, then the painters.
Depending a shops set up, you maybe just the painter. But you ethics see thinks that are not right, then take upon yourself to work extra to fix it right before primer, base and clear go on, book time appears in the managers computer as a tech with low efficiency. A repair tech is judged by square feet, hours turned in but could be higher if corners are cut, the efficiency rating or dollars per sq ft shows you lower than the tech next to you. Since the manager has no clue, he/she only feel you are not as fast or falling behind. It is not quality only quantity! Produce more and to hell with quality, longevity or correctness!
This is the disconnect in shops. Managers may get a salary but depend on productivity to get a bonus weekly! It is a crying shame that profit over product is more important!
I completely understand.
My daughter called my wife crying because a “Brakes Plus” want $620 for front brakes. This can’t be right!
I ask to see the estimate. They had $110 for ceramic pads, but listed “Loaded Calipers” for $145 just below it. Since I knew drum was on the back, nothing! I asked the lady service advisor to find out. She went to ask the tech, returned 6 minutes later and told me; “He did not pull any rear drum, so we did get that far.”
What? The rear brakes are part of a complete system plus you have 2 pair of brake pads on the ticket. She looked confused and reviewed the estimate. What do you mean sir. I point out the loaded calipers that have pads installed out of the box, yet here is about her set on top! I am sorry, she said. I told her to properly judge the brake system front and rear all have to be inspected. I had them install the wheel and bring it up front. I bought lifetime ceramic front pads, cleaned, lubed with high-temp PTFE grease and was done in an hour. The pads cost $34 and she gave me some money and went home. No one knows or does their job plus they don’t care!
@@deankay4434 you want to hear the real kicker to my argument? I was turning an average of 100 flat rate hours in a 43 hour workweek. Cutting corners like they wanted wouldn't make it any faster or any better. Blending onto adjacent panel could save a lot of time over tint-to-match colors, although I was VERY good at matching colors.
This is the best bodywork channel on TH-cam. You guys have cleared up so many confusing topics for me. Great job!
Glad you think so!
Using warm water to rinse the panel is supposed to prevent the rust-like brown appearance from forming.
Great video! This and epoxy primer is the closest a body shop can get to the e-coat process.
Agreed I found about the hot water trick after making this 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Very helpful. I am restoring vintage motorcycles and struggling with pre-paint prep. I tried several different phosphate solutions only to find sections of the treated metal turned brown, which prompted me to re-blast the part. 3 things I learned from this video. (1) The brown is not rust. (2) Parts should not be air-drying the parts. (3) Phosphate is not compatible with blasting.
I even went so far to call tech support at Ospho about parts tuning brown and they were not able to not explain why. I'm now motivated to try phosphate treatment again avoiding the mistakes I made thanks to your video.
Rinse with hot water not cold and it also won’t turn brown 👊🏻😎
Just a DIY Automotive painter for a hobby but this channel straight up gave me more motivation to solve some barriers I’ve had just tryna figure out ! Good stuff man keep the videos coming
Awesome glad to hear it!!
Spray it, cover the wetted out Metal with plastic wrap.
Rinse with warm water and baking soda. The baking soda will neutralize the acid. Then do a final rinse and dry with compressed air.
A blasted surface is fine to use a chemical rust dissolver on a blasted surface. If you’re getting pitting from blasting; You’re not using the appropriate media. 100 grit aluminum oxide is optimal.
I've watched heaps of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most clearly explained. Finally a video that covers all the bases. Well done & Hi from Australia
Thank you very much
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMShi mate, probably a stupid question but is this stuff the same as a deoxidine?
@@JimmyJohnson7077 sorry I have no clue
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS no worries
Class is in session, very detailed !!! This kind of info can't be found on any label. I'm glued to these videos, I have much to learn and what I thought I knew is junk. Thanks for making these videos, this one is my starting point.
You are very welcome. I’m glad to help.
I like the way you explain everything from start to finish step by step. Thanks for all you do I know it takes a lot of time to make these videos.
Thank you very much
Intro looks great! Nice work and great content as always. Thank you guys for all you do
Thank you very much!!!
great info! I enjoyed your throughness of explaining the differences in chemical verses mechanical metal prepping.Thank you for your time and attention to detail!!
Glad you liked it more coming soon. Thank you
Great channel. Keep producing quality videos like these and I expect this channel to explode.
Thank you very much we appreciate it!
Awesome content. Appreciate you guys taking the time to make these videos and show the details that usually get skipped over.
A video on filler best practices and application would be awesome. Also would like to see a more general video on the best order of taking these cars from stripped to built back up to paint.
Perfect we will do just that! Thanks for your input!
I visit multiple body shops and all have different methods,some due process associated to the particular products used. It always helps learn or be reassured of process associated with a particular product.
Great explanation. An old panel beater told me over 40 years ago ; "Never touch a bare panel with your hand or you will cause a rusty handprint." Since then I've watched countless videos where people feel panels they have just sanded bare, without gloves.
Glad to see someone knows what they're doing.
I've been doing bodywork since the late 80s actually I changed to the upholstery side a few years back. Anyway, we know not to touch bare metal without gloves but I rubbed my bare hands on metal all the time. Cars I did 30 years ago still look great and have no issues from touching the metal.
@@duckdays9451 Do you recall if you had bog dust on your hands at the time?
@@bossdog1480 When doing filler work and feeling the panel I would have dust on my hands. But I have touched panels without dust on them. I'm not a sweaty person and in New England we generally aren't real humid. We also used a blow gun and hands to clean off a panel just before priming. I also never use wax and grease remover on painted panels before repainting for repairs unless there was oil or something on it. It seemed to cause more fisheyes than not. I had one of my cars in the shop for at least 5 years in bare metal that I worked on doing welding and panel fitting that never rusted. I of course I would still sand the metal before primer though. I am not like a lot of newer people I talk to that do autobody where they do one job. I do everything from welding to paint. I've done chop tops, sections. Converted a 40 Pacard to a convertible and a bunch of other stuff. I wish I took more pictures of my work but digital cameras weren't a thing and even now with interiors I still never think about it. You can see one of my cars in the background of this video. th-cam.com/video/KqECVp930yQ/w-d-xo.html
@@duckdays9451 Very nice.
I really enjoyed the pace at which you were sharing this information. Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much!
Agreed. Well done & aimed at learning a process. Not hyping anything. Thanks for your videos.
Rick
Enjoy the videos. I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Keep em coming
Thank you!
worked for dearborn stove company in the late 1960,s early 70's,all their parts went thru a washer that used bonderite , they all came out of the dryer looking totally rusted. they were then painted, no primer of any kind, and everyone knows how long their stoves looked great .
That’s pretty cool to hear actually lol
How does this dude only have 6k subscribers???? This dudes page needs to blow up because he teaches you how to get those great finishes and it all starts from the bottom!!!! Awesome videos!!!
Probably because he's showing how to WORK. People don't want to do that sort of thing.
@@mikemcgown6362 ahhhhh ha ha ha or at least do it right lol
@@gladememmott3001 I may just be old school but I see a lot of people just take the easy way.
He dont have a Jolene.
@@TOMVUTHEPIMP good point.... Damn that Jolene tho...... Ka-pow
Just happened on to this video. I am subscribing and will look forward to more. The attention to detail impresses me. Thanks
Always love to see how y’all do your work. I’ve learned a lot from y’all. Keep the vids coming
Thank you there’s way more to come!
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS where are you located
Your knowledge and teaching skills are fantastic .
Thank you, hope we can get you more info that’s helps you out.
I just stripped an old S10 frame to metal that had 40 years of surface rust on it with a 4GPM power washer and a sand blasting attachment. Dirty job, but it strips it down quickly. You do go through tips. I etched primered then sealed. Now Im putting a flat black enamel on top of it. Definately not a professional job more of a hobbiest, but hobbying is cheaper. Then I will be ready to build the truck back up
Great video! Yesterday, I began the job of cleaning up the surface rust on the lower rear panels of my old Suburban that is mostly used these days for launching a fishing boat. Over the years, it has suffered from salt water boat launches / stone chips and reached the point something needed to be done. I stripped to metal then used a phosphoric acid wash (with water clean-up) followed by epoxy primer. As the primer went on, I noticed that several areas had what looked like flash rust, even though I had followed all the steps outlined in the TDS and had under an hour between applying the wash and priming - so came researching what I had done wrong before stripping everything off and starting again. Glad I did as I think it is most likely that what I'm seeing is the zinc layer described in this video, so while I see from another comment a hot water wash may have prevented the " rust look", I've relaxed and today I'm going to proceed per plan and finish the job. Two thumbs up!
That is awesome. We’re glad to help.
The Hue is actually FePO4 - iron Phosphate
Great video. Very informative. You seem like you actually know what you’re doing, and continue learning even now. The worst thing about the trades is some people never want to learn new and better ways to do things. Some people are PROUD that they’ve never read a book or a detailed teaching article in years. No matter how good you are, you can always be better. You remind me of that saying. Good job my friend. 👏 👍🏼. I shall use this information now because I will be re-painting my cars underbody to get rid of surface rust spots, and stop them from getting worse/coming back.
I know nothing is permanent, but I have also learned that the PREP WORK is 90% of painting, and good prep work will be the difference between it lasting one year versus several years. This will be the first time I thoroughly hit the rust with some sanding discs, followed by isopropyl alcohol to clean the duSt/grease. Only then will I use rust-primer then paint. Thank you!
Thank you for the kind compliment we are all still learning and trying to improve every day that’s what it’s about hopefully you get a lot out of the different videos that we are posting we just dropped another one today take care
I just acquired a stripped down MGB thats been blasted, painted in red oxide and stored for decades.
Your videos are boosting my confidence with regards to how to go about getting the best finish i can while doing everything myself. Thank you
You are welcome!
Very clear explanation.
Glad I found your vids.
I’ll be back for more.
Cheers from down under.
Thank you!!
Great videos been getting into them I'm doing my own car at home here in Aussie land thanks for the good info 👍
Appreciate the clarity and concise explanation now I just need to find something comparable up here on Vancouver Island.
Good luck !
I love your videos on body work. Keep 'em coming
Thank you!!
Great content! I appreciate your explanation on the process. Love to see a video on how to get rust out/treat in the hard to reach areas between panels or in frame rails. Thank you again for the great video
Honestly, the best way to get everything is to have the car acid dipped. We use a place all the way in Eugene Oregon. We have learned the hard way that not all acid dippers are the same sum will not do the full process where it illuminates the rust and some will and then you just have to get in there with special marvels to coat it
GREAT EXPLANATION, NICE PANTERA AND BRONCO IN THE BACK ROUND
Thank you for sharing, and explaining in a way that makes this accessible and easy to apply - subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
That’s the way I understand it thanks for the refresher course. Great channel.
Thank you!!
That’s a good clear explanation of a subject that’s is not simple. thank you because you just answered a question I had while trying to solve a rusted auto body. It’s funny, because in my profession (not automotive),someone might ask me detailed question about something. And the answer is “it depends”, because there is no yes or not, or one simple solution.
Im finding there’s more than one solution to rusted auto body repairs.
Absolutely so many ways! 👍🏻👍🏻
Best explanations I’ve seen.
Thank you for watching.
this is perhaps the single most interesting and cool collection of vehicles i've ever seen - '59 Impala, Pantera, Bronco, and who knows what other hidden gems. sir, you are obviously doing things right.
Thank you so much we love all cars no matter what they are from Lowriders to Hot Rods and art pieces. We do whatever needs to get done.
Best video I’ve seen about this, awesome
Thank you!
All the videos are great to watch and very educational for the first time dear guys that are trying to perfect what they're doing I have a bit of a problem with my 69 Oldsmobile someone who purchased a car and did some body work but yet did not finish it when I bought the car the back passenger side corner part of the fender well going up toward the back glass has been replaced they welded it but did not finish it so it's more or less sunk in it's not much maybe a half inch but I would like to kind of raise it what should I do and if possible could y'all make a video on this type of problem
Excellent video, will be following more!
Thank you
Very well presented video. If you have to tig weld after removing/neutralizing the rust do you have any suggestion on sequence of events i.e. do you use epoxy primer and then grind it away at the weld joint, use a weldable primer, etc? Thank you.
That is a great question you could obviously do this a few different ways I iLike to seal everything up in epoxy are usually mask off the edge that I am going to weld and use the weldable primer that is copper. Once all of the grinding and metal finishing is completed we then Spot prime the Epoxy. Now let’s use the example of a rusty floor and let’s say you sand blasted the floorboards so that way you can do your rust repair sometimes I like to use etching primer just to hold off any flash rusting because it is a lot easier to grind away since it is so thin versus a thicker epoxy once everything is done and welded in we then seal everything in epoxy last. I could even think of other scenarios but that should hopefully answer your question every project varies dependent on how the car is stripped
Justa video idea how to prime Bodywork and prep for paint on plastic bumpers. You're my main guy on taking advice on Bodywork that's for sure appreciate all you do
Sounds good if we get a plastic bumper in the future we will do that
It is refreshing to see some info and technique on proper metal conditioning before primer. I see so much information on prepping steel for epoxy primers that leaves out this "phosphating" step. Now, which epoxy primer do you use, how many mils of film build and how long of a cure time before sanding and applying filler? You are lucky to be able to do this in a warm low humidity climate.
We actually just posted a video on exactly this it talks about all of those questions 👍🏻
Great tip, keep them coming 👍
Will do more soon!
Thanks for the great information. A little more narrative, listing the products and their location in the video timeline would be helpful. Some videos have segments related to the narrative, ot sure how they do it, but it really helps going back over the portions that the viewer wants to re look.
Zinc you use it on commercial fishing steel hull boats. To draw rust to your zinc plates, then is slows maintenance processes over time. When resurface on the boat it is area to area the spray is consistent. 👍👍👍
You mentioned being in California and not being able to get all the best chemicals, and having used to live out there I get it. If you had no restrictions, what would you recommend?
Thank you for your videos. I don't know of anyone else teaching these things on TH-cam in such an easy to understand way. You're a natural teacher.
Thank you! To be honest I’ve never gotten to use anything other than products in CA there’s not a huge difference. The products I use with ppg I love so I’d just stick with it.
Sylvester is an absolute genius and perfectionist , so , I absolutely followed his advice , even to the extent of wiping down the panel with a beach towell , everything came out better than perfect. Now my wife wants a divorce just because I used her favourite most expensive beach towell in the house . I like my car better than I like her anyway. Cheers Sylvester -great show and great information. At last someone who knows exactly how to do a job the correct way.... anyone out there need a wife ? take mine . Please.
No thanks. I've got a classic car that I've had for 35? years.Several girl friends and 2 wives have come and gone in that time! Don't need another!
I still use metal prep on my restos , don’t feel like “Self Etche” primer quite does the job. Sadly I’ve seen guys in “PRO “ shops doing fairly high dollar restos dumping that self etch over visible,Obvious RUST ,still see a couple I did 20-30 years ago and although they see limited use ,still look Very Presentable
Thanks for the info!
Any time!
Thank you!!
Great video and very well explained … Thank you
Thank you!
Awesome video and information
Thank you!
Love the Pantera behind you - would love to have seen a start to finish of that! I have a '71 I'm restoring now
We have a video on it and more we will be doing soon. For daily updates check out our Instagram on it 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Following it now - will have some questions for ya! So far - so good
Good demo. Just one thing to add. You say use a Brillo pad but what you meant was Scotchbrite pad. Brillo is steel wool with soap added. Scotchbrite is a clean abrasive mesh.
Um sure if it makes you feel better lol
I just opened a pack of Brillo brand "scotchbrite pads," so it seems they sell those as well as the soapy SOS pads you were referencing.
I just used a rust remover on my truck and it was amazing-- it's a green gel you paint on with a brush-- apply liberally and let sit for 10 to 20 minutes then thoroughly rinse (hose) it off. It works like paint stripper and though I had to do several applications because I had deep rust- it got rid of all of it- can't fix the pitting obviously, but boy did I save my arms and sander-- am down to bare metal-- no spraying into the atmosphere, no scrubbing. You do have to clean it thoroughly with alcohol after.
👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Great information ! This is one of my biggest concerns .
Hope it helps you out
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS yeah it has for sure ! Can’t find another channel anywhere that explains all the minor details like you guys and they’re very important minor details.
Another great vid!! Tu
Thanks again!
Another great video with 5x more detail and insight than others on the same topic.
Glad you explained the “copper colored” finish you saw after rinsing the phosphoric acid off. I freaked when that happened to me and stopped using it. I thought it was some kind of oxidation. I searched all over the web and couldn’t find an explanation
If you rinse the acid off with warm water instead of cold it won’t turn orange on you either 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS thanks for pointing that out!
Thanks for the info. Is it any concern using cold tap water and ending up with that orange surface? I’m looking to apply epoxy as the next step.
Another question. Those Bonderite product instruction sheets say use on galvanized steel. What about older car sheet metal which is not galvanized? Use the same stuff?
@@tomkirby2355 I recommend doing it over just do smaller sections and overlap and dry as quick as possible. You can get a clean job with no orange just takes practice even with cold water
Harbor freight now have those stripping drums for the sct removal tool. I've tried both now and they work just as good at a much better price.
Thanks for sharing
This channel is awesome
Thank you
Very informative video once again mate. Question from a DIY, if your doing a complete ground up resto that's going to take a few years to complete how do you prep to metal but then also stop it from rusting over the longer term while your still working on it?
Thanks in advance, James
You can use etching primer it works good because it’s very thin and if you have metal work to do you do not have to spend a bunch of time trying to get it all off it’s basically like painting water and it has enough acid in it that it holds off the rust. Should work for A decent amount of time as long as the car is indoors. Once all of your metal work is done then seal it up in epoxy and you can go right over the top of it
Great information. Thanks
You are welcome!!
Great information
Glad it was helpful!
wow that.s bad ass i went though hell getting rust off my frame for my truck nice stuff there thanks for sharing
No problem just keep in mind it works good for light rust only.
I’ve been “experimenting” with a phosphoric acid treatment called Ospho. Thanks for the tips on application of the other product & thanks for sharing of your knowledge. That helps us all. I really like your videos, wish you continued success
Thank you very much. I’ve heard of that product I hear it’s good!
Stuff is AMAZING. For real bad rust I use Kleen strip from big box home improvement muratic acid. Put that on a tough spot for 15. 30 min, wash off then use ospho over top after and the rust is dead and gone and not coming back. After the muratic and wash it will start to flash on right kind of day, humid but ospho loves a lil iron oxide. I've used this for decades and never knew how much time it can save. How do you like it?
@@kitjasabsgabs1830 I was gonna ask about Ospho too, since it is available almost anywhere. How does one neutralize it?
@@clarkharvell5242 Loys of water, baking soda and water mix. Not a strong acid. Not like muratic. It works well. If you use it and use anything other than epoxy, just rewet, let sit 5 min thin give a good rinse with water, baking soda and water and dry. For bad rusted pieces and saving time I'll use muratic. Let it sit for 5-15 min and part should be pretty clean. Same thing with rinse. Any acid can be shut down with a base. Or if diluted with alot of water. I've used this for 3 decades. If using oil based paints no need to do anything but wipe off with mineral spirits. If using heavy Ospho you may get a white chalky dust. Ok. Just wipe off. Means u used more than needed. It's awesome stuff. Just make sure to knock off heavy chunks or rust that would fall off from hammer strike. I use a needle scaler. Works great.
@@clarkharvell5242what do you do when using epoxy?
I love the way you explain everything. So where can I ordered the chemicals ?
For the rust?
Well done!!!
Thank you!
Good instruction...thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Great info. Is this the same thing as ospho? You mentioned some products aren't available in California
Pretty much yes 👍🏻
Great rundown. That answers a lot of questions. I’m going to DIY strip/repaint my hood soon, and am still trying to lock-down my material selection.
If I were to epoxy-prime on a perfectly straight panel DA’d down to bare metal with 80-grit, how critical is using a hi-build primer before painting it? What I remain confused-on is ‘types’ of epoxy primer.
Is there an epoxy primer that eliminates multiple steps? Can you go straight to a high-build variant, or, completely skip that using the initial epoxy primer and go straight to basecoat? I’d really like to see the following priming steps (with a DIY-er in-mind) demonstrated in another episode.
My goal is to lay-down ample clearcoat, perfect it on the polishing stage, but also see it last for many years in the Texas sun. I’ll be using a factory basecoat and 2K clearcoat for my project. I’d love to see a demo on your panel taking that approach. Thanks!
We actually have videos on this already out. Vp2050 is the only primer needed
I had been using "Rust Cure" for my my etal prep. Seems to work very well but has now been discontinued.
I had a number of gallons so just now running out.
I am a mature but found that I did not like rinsing with water probably because the "rust colored hue" that produced.
So I work out in with course scotch Brite a couple applications and then wipe dry.
My experience it works better if I apply primer and top coat before acid wash is completely dry, within a few minutes to within a few hours. If I let it dry over night I always feel the need to scuff.
I have painted a lot of rear axle housing in gloss black and not had adhesion problems. If there is a small area in a corner or crevas where some build up or where acid was is still more wet then that wet will bleed through the paint or primer and appear as a white dusty spot that easily wipes off.
You definitely don’t want to do that. The acid must be neutralized. That orange hue you are seeing is a chemical reaction when rinsing. Use warm water instead of cold 👍🏻
Hi, thanks for great classes! What would you recommend to remove paint from a factory galvanised panel?
I wouldn’t do anything different if it was factory galvanized strip it with a stripper disc or DA is safest route
Hey man hope you had a good thanksgiving. I almost have my cab down to bare metal now and was going to start applying the bonderite but I was wondering should I buy the m n5 one as well because I heard the m n5 is the one for better adhesion for paint thanks.
Same to you! There are different chemicals for different metals I am unsure on what you are asking. There are two products we use in this video. The MZ-n5 I think they discontinued recently. Depends on what state you are in. The CIC product is really all you need.
I did complete resto body work on one of those panteras finished in red, one of the easiest cars you can ever work on.
Well detailed video - thanks. HA - although a Scotchbrite type pad is not called a Brillio pad - Brillo are steel wool type pads - the Scotchbrite is a plastic pad. Keep up the good work. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
You are correct I always call them the wrong names. We always joke about it in the newer videos.
Great info thxs
You got it!!
Thanks for the great video! I have a question. It "seems" like there is still some of the white haze on the panel (air dried acid?). If so, how do you get rid of it? Keep rinsing and drying? Also, which epoxy are you using? DPLV? I am in California as well.
If you are getting the white powdery aftermath, you are not rinsing it enough and also, if you use hot water to rinse it, you won’t get the chemical reaction where it turns orange most people mistake it for rust. We use VP 2050 epoxy primer that is the only primer we use from start to finish.
Great video I wish it was around 30 years ago 😂😅I strip a car down, the entire car to the bare metal and then I’ll treat it with metal prep 69. I spray it on there with a pump up sprayer maybe 2’x2’, let it dwell till it starts to dry a bit and I wipe it off firmly and quickly with paper towel, a lot of them. I t won’t rust for an easy month or two. Can’t let anybody touch it if I notice any kind of rust coming in, I’ll just wipe it down again(That’s in a closed shop) humidity in my shop today is about 64%.
Is "Ospho", which I can find locally, acceptable sccid wash prep?
Thanks for your sharing.
I haven’t been able to get my hands on any but I hear good things I would think so
Great video appreciate U taking the time to share your knowledge. Can never learn enough when it comes to body N paint
Thank you!
Wow...that was nice 👍
Thank you
Nice Video i have a quick question. can i use the Bonderite and have the epoxy go right over it. has would i go about cleaning the surface if i touched it after I'm done conditioning it. thanks.
Just use wax and grease remover 👍🏻 then good to epoxy. Or you can wash it again.
"Limited" that's a super nice way of putting it.
I have tried that technique in the past and got bit bad when it caused adhesion issues with some Morton eliminator (which is now dead to me). I DA a panel down from 80-150-220 grit until it is extremely clean. I will spot sandblast bad pits or use Rustmort on minor remnant rust staining. I then go back over with a DA with 150 or coarser for a mechanical adhesion. Wax/grease wipe and seal. I personally don't trust metal prep products again after getting burned. Seems odd to not mechanically remove the surface rust and to intentionally allow a film barrier to remain over the bare metal and seal over it. Maybe I have PTSD. I do really enjoy your video.
Thank you. You must neutralize it with water. Nothing in this procedure is sealing in rust it’s removing it. We do nothing but high end show cars I’ve never had any issues. If it failed on you something was done incorrectly.
great video, can't buy that product in Australia so have been using diluted phosphoric acid and works a treat
Yeah they have discontinued certain products here as well
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Only in Nazi states. Rest of us are free and can have guns and buy prep and etch. Move to AZ or Utah or NV. Surprised they haven't banned ppg.
I was messing around with Phosporic acic a couple of years ago trying to find a way to treat a bare metal shell and was working between the crusty white deposits and the gold sheen which I did indeed think was flash rust. I'm glad now to have seen this and filled the knowledge gaps. Subscribed !!!! Thanks
The thing is I have used Ospho for decades (on tugs and ships) and the instructions say to put it on and wait overnight and paint/prime right over it. However, there is a large number of professional coating experts that say to reapply (to reactivate) and then wipe off and neutralize prior to painting. I don't recall having any problems painting right over but when I did some weld repairs to one of my car's unibodies I went with their admonition and then coated the inner fender wells with Sherwin-Williams Duracoat 65 barge hull epoxy and it has been fine for the last 6 years. So, do we leave it on and paint over it (after it has etched or converted) or do we reapply and rinse?
@@butziporsche8646 My question too. Hear it both ways
@@butziporsche8646 I wiped mine down with wax and grease remover. I am wondering if I screwed up....?
@@clarkharvell5242 I would say that would be a great idea prior to etching with Ospho type products
@@butziporsche8646 this would be after. Then I put primer on
What’s the brand name of the rust preventative acid you’re using
you are awesome. i seem to find the videos i need to watch starting with you or ending with you.. lol
Thank you!!!
I really dig your videos, they're very informative. How should I deal with surface rust in areas I can't access to scrub or rinse? In my case the roof area between the skeletal structure and the roof panel. Also I'd like to stop the rust inside the tubular roof structure and surface rust inside the rockers. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you. The absolute best way would be to find someone in your area to do acid tipping of the body. It gets in every single nook and cranny.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I was afraid you'd say that. I don't think that's going to work for my project. I was thinking Eastwood internal frame coating or POR15. Do you have any experience with these products? I have used Eastwood Fastetch with good results, but it should be neutralized. Thanks for the quick reply.
Awesome content. Appreciate you you for taking the time to make this video to show the details that usually get skipped over. I've watched a lot of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most explained. I like the way you explain everything from start to finish step by step. Thanks for all you do I know it takes a lot of time to make these videos. I am about to prep a 67 F100 in Virginia. I was going to use a Muriatic acid wash with a Krud Kutter rust remover after to have time to paint. What your take on that setup? It's a lot cheaper and the Bonderite M-ZN5 is discontinued.
I don’t have any experience with those particular materials all I know is that if it’s typically cheaper most of the time you get what you pay for but who knows as for the part that was discontinued you do not have to have that product just use the one product CIC - 79 The only thing the product was doing was prolonging your window of time before you had to primer in epoxy. Hope that helps you
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Yes that helps. Yes I am upset that the conditioner was discontinued. I will probably just have to go over it again when I am ready to paint. What your thoughts on the Eastwood 2k Epoxy Primer?
@@willycsjr I used it on a buddies bug. It’s ok. You def get what you pay for in my opinion vp2050 is best from ppg it’s one primer that is all you need start to finish
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS you have a link to the vp2050
Sick brah
For simple rust mitigation in a battery tray area for example, how would I remove all of the rinse water with a towel without using the assistance of compressed air? My project is a rusty battery tray in my Pontiac Fiero. I will be eventually replacing the tray but that requires removing the old and welding the replacement in place... which requires removing part of the passenger side interior to safely weld the tray without causing a fire. I have used a Phosphoric Acid product, and rinsed it only to find what I thought was flash rust the next day. I applied the acid again and rinsed the area with Acetone. The product I used was Phosphoric Acid that I purchased at my local Home Depot. I did not use a 2 step process like you have. If I can't dry completely with a towel, and I can't used compressed air to assist in drying, then I imagine I shouldn't use water to neutralize the acid. What do you recommend I do in this situation? Also for a video idea, I would like to see some content on repairing chips, visible fibers, and cracks in SMC panels as well as prepping for primer and paint. Love the videos and easy to understand information!!
That was a lot of questions. If you have a tight area, that is hard to get to acid washing, may not be the best solution. For example, if we’re doing the interior of an old car, I would sand blast things like floor pans and firewalls that have more structure and shape but I will just acid wash exterior panels so that way I do not warp them. Thanks for the ideas. Will keep that in mind in the future.
Another excellent video. Can you tell me the suppliers you use for the bonderite products? Thanks.
There are online suppliers if you do a google search. Product name is in description for reference. Thanks for watching!
Quality content.
Thank you very much
Great video. I am restoring a Vespa that has pitted rust will this process work the same.
I don’t recommend this process for heavy pitting however you can use rust mort to completely neutralize heavier rust and scuff that up and go over with epoxy 👍🏻
Thanks a lot for the video. I just bought a gallon of that. When I first got started on my restoration I purchased a gallon of the eastwood epoxy primer. I want to paint the car in a high quality single stage to keep the car looking original. I'm now wondering if their epoxy primer is good to use under any paint system? I heard you use ppg, what would you recommend without breaking the budget? My local shop sells "Nason" and I've heard that is not the greatest. Thanks again, I'm also in California, so some products can be tough to get.
Like anything you pretty much get what you pay for I have personally shot the Eastwood epoxy and it’s not the greatest here’s my thought on that. We use PPG VP 2050 it is an epoxy/high build hybrid. So if you are using the Eastwood system you will end up needing to buy a polyester and then you will have to buy a urethane at some point. If you add all those materials up it is more money than spending it on the good stuff with PPG. I know there are other good brands out there but I am just most familiar with PPG.
Have you ever used Rust Kutter or Black-Max? I believe Rust Kutter uses the acid that POR15 uses in it's 2nd step but with 3x the concentrate. I am working on cleaning up the underneath of my 68 camaro. I am currently using a combo a angle grinder and assortment of wire brushes as well as a high speed with with assortment of wire brushes. I have some really tight spots that I cannot completely get to and need some assistance with a good product. The acid make me nervous as I am working on my back and have some really tight angles don't want to leave and behind to create even bigger problems down the road later. Leaning more towards the Black-Max route atm.
I haven’t what is it?
great video. What if you are in a situation that you can't use hose to wash it off. Can a bucket of water and rags be used to neutralize the acid?
You could but I’d be nervous of acid being left behind.
In what order do you apply fillers, primers, primer sealers, and finish coats.
Thanks Len
Check out our other videos. We will dive more in depth on this very soon.