As a retired bodyman, I just want to give you my big congratulations! In my 35 years in the business I had a lot of training. From manufacturer to refinisher to restoration. I've worked in almost a dozen shops and none of them were as thorough with the handling of material or the vehicle it's used on as you are. Sometimes I would get in ferosous fights with the management or owners because I would be "too thorough". A couple fired me, I walked away from the others. GM trained, PPG trained and certified. Chevrolet certified, Buick Best in Class Award. ASE certified. And numerous other training sessions. I feel I've forgotten more than most techs will ever know. I always took pride in my work. Wouldn't let them change my habits or make me cut corners. Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't wrong with my procedures. More "experts" need your advice or training.
Most companies don’t have time to be too tech savvy. It’s about the bottom line and cutting cost. The dozen shops you work for they don’t wanna be precise it affects the bottom line. And their success would be critically hampered by doing things the right way. I understand you perfectly as I do I’m a stickler for doing things correctly. But in the fast moving world we sometimes do not have that much time..
@@MrCbell57 I was always breaking book time on the jobs. 100+ hours in a 43 hour workweek? We were all profitable. Just personal conflicts with the managers. Didn't do things their way, so we argued.
@@mikemcgown6362 >Mike, I agree with you and your decision to spend time over and above the time that flat rate may pay for certain job. There are many mangers who are half out age, as some have tech school experience on a vehicle from being to end. While at the right place at the right time, find themselves in charge of say, 8 techs. The techs who actually produce a product either R&R, Body work, a guy who preps by cleaning & taping a vehicle paint ready, then the painters. Depending a shops set up, you maybe just the painter. But you ethics see thinks that are not right, then take upon yourself to work extra to fix it right before primer, base and clear go on, book time appears in the managers computer as a tech with low efficiency. A repair tech is judged by square feet, hours turned in but could be higher if corners are cut, the efficiency rating or dollars per sq ft shows you lower than the tech next to you. Since the manager has no clue, he/she only feel you are not as fast or falling behind. It is not quality only quantity! Produce more and to hell with quality, longevity or correctness! This is the disconnect in shops. Managers may get a salary but depend on productivity to get a bonus weekly! It is a crying shame that profit over product is more important! I completely understand. My daughter called my wife crying because a “Brakes Plus” want $620 for front brakes. This can’t be right! I ask to see the estimate. They had $110 for ceramic pads, but listed “Loaded Calipers” for $145 just below it. Since I knew drum was on the back, nothing! I asked the lady service advisor to find out. She went to ask the tech, returned 6 minutes later and told me; “He did not pull any rear drum, so we did get that far.” What? The rear brakes are part of a complete system plus you have 2 pair of brake pads on the ticket. She looked confused and reviewed the estimate. What do you mean sir. I point out the loaded calipers that have pads installed out of the box, yet here is about her set on top! I am sorry, she said. I told her to properly judge the brake system front and rear all have to be inspected. I had them install the wheel and bring it up front. I bought lifetime ceramic front pads, cleaned, lubed with high-temp PTFE grease and was done in an hour. The pads cost $34 and she gave me some money and went home. No one knows or does their job plus they don’t care!
@@deankay4434 you want to hear the real kicker to my argument? I was turning an average of 100 flat rate hours in a 43 hour workweek. Cutting corners like they wanted wouldn't make it any faster or any better. Blending onto adjacent panel could save a lot of time over tint-to-match colors, although I was VERY good at matching colors.
Great explanation. An old panel beater told me over 40 years ago ; "Never touch a bare panel with your hand or you will cause a rusty handprint." Since then I've watched countless videos where people feel panels they have just sanded bare, without gloves. Glad to see someone knows what they're doing.
I've been doing bodywork since the late 80s actually I changed to the upholstery side a few years back. Anyway, we know not to touch bare metal without gloves but I rubbed my bare hands on metal all the time. Cars I did 30 years ago still look great and have no issues from touching the metal.
@@bossdog1480 When doing filler work and feeling the panel I would have dust on my hands. But I have touched panels without dust on them. I'm not a sweaty person and in New England we generally aren't real humid. We also used a blow gun and hands to clean off a panel just before priming. I also never use wax and grease remover on painted panels before repainting for repairs unless there was oil or something on it. It seemed to cause more fisheyes than not. I had one of my cars in the shop for at least 5 years in bare metal that I worked on doing welding and panel fitting that never rusted. I of course I would still sand the metal before primer though. I am not like a lot of newer people I talk to that do autobody where they do one job. I do everything from welding to paint. I've done chop tops, sections. Converted a 40 Pacard to a convertible and a bunch of other stuff. I wish I took more pictures of my work but digital cameras weren't a thing and even now with interiors I still never think about it. You can see one of my cars in the background of this video. th-cam.com/video/KqECVp930yQ/w-d-xo.html
I've watched heaps of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most clearly explained. Finally a video that covers all the bases. Well done & Hi from Australia
How does this dude only have 6k subscribers???? This dudes page needs to blow up because he teaches you how to get those great finishes and it all starts from the bottom!!!! Awesome videos!!!
Class is in session, very detailed !!! This kind of info can't be found on any label. I'm glued to these videos, I have much to learn and what I thought I knew is junk. Thanks for making these videos, this one is my starting point.
I am building a 55 Chevy. I am watching all of your videos. Each one I am learning a lot. This car is turning out the nicest one I have built. Back in my day of building cars all products were so different. You have shown me new products that has made my life a lot easier. THANKS ! 😊
I visit multiple body shops and all have different methods,some due process associated to the particular products used. It always helps learn or be reassured of process associated with a particular product.
Very helpful. I am restoring vintage motorcycles and struggling with pre-paint prep. I tried several different phosphate solutions only to find sections of the treated metal turned brown, which prompted me to re-blast the part. 3 things I learned from this video. (1) The brown is not rust. (2) Parts should not be air-drying the parts. (3) Phosphate is not compatible with blasting. I even went so far to call tech support at Ospho about parts tuning brown and they were not able to not explain why. I'm now motivated to try phosphate treatment again avoiding the mistakes I made thanks to your video.
Just a DIY Automotive painter for a hobby but this channel straight up gave me more motivation to solve some barriers I’ve had just tryna figure out ! Good stuff man keep the videos coming
Using warm water to rinse the panel is supposed to prevent the rust-like brown appearance from forming. Great video! This and epoxy primer is the closest a body shop can get to the e-coat process.
I just acquired a stripped down MGB thats been blasted, painted in red oxide and stored for decades. Your videos are boosting my confidence with regards to how to go about getting the best finish i can while doing everything myself. Thank you
Another great video with 5x more detail and insight than others on the same topic. Glad you explained the “copper colored” finish you saw after rinsing the phosphoric acid off. I freaked when that happened to me and stopped using it. I thought it was some kind of oxidation. I searched all over the web and couldn’t find an explanation
Another question. Those Bonderite product instruction sheets say use on galvanized steel. What about older car sheet metal which is not galvanized? Use the same stuff?
@@tomkirby2355 I recommend doing it over just do smaller sections and overlap and dry as quick as possible. You can get a clean job with no orange just takes practice even with cold water
this is perhaps the single most interesting and cool collection of vehicles i've ever seen - '59 Impala, Pantera, Bronco, and who knows what other hidden gems. sir, you are obviously doing things right.
Awesome content. Appreciate you guys taking the time to make these videos and show the details that usually get skipped over. A video on filler best practices and application would be awesome. Also would like to see a more general video on the best order of taking these cars from stripped to built back up to paint.
That’s a good clear explanation of a subject that’s is not simple. thank you because you just answered a question I had while trying to solve a rusted auto body. It’s funny, because in my profession (not automotive),someone might ask me detailed question about something. And the answer is “it depends”, because there is no yes or not, or one simple solution. Im finding there’s more than one solution to rusted auto body repairs.
great info! I enjoyed your throughness of explaining the differences in chemical verses mechanical metal prepping.Thank you for your time and attention to detail!!
I just stripped an old S10 frame to metal that had 40 years of surface rust on it with a 4GPM power washer and a sand blasting attachment. Dirty job, but it strips it down quickly. You do go through tips. I etched primered then sealed. Now Im putting a flat black enamel on top of it. Definately not a professional job more of a hobbiest, but hobbying is cheaper. Then I will be ready to build the truck back up
I just used a rust remover on my truck and it was amazing-- it's a green gel you paint on with a brush-- apply liberally and let sit for 10 to 20 minutes then thoroughly rinse (hose) it off. It works like paint stripper and though I had to do several applications because I had deep rust- it got rid of all of it- can't fix the pitting obviously, but boy did I save my arms and sander-- am down to bare metal-- no spraying into the atmosphere, no scrubbing. You do have to clean it thoroughly with alcohol after.
You mentioned being in California and not being able to get all the best chemicals, and having used to live out there I get it. If you had no restrictions, what would you recommend? Thank you for your videos. I don't know of anyone else teaching these things on TH-cam in such an easy to understand way. You're a natural teacher.
Thank you! To be honest I’ve never gotten to use anything other than products in CA there’s not a huge difference. The products I use with ppg I love so I’d just stick with it.
Justa video idea how to prime Bodywork and prep for paint on plastic bumpers. You're my main guy on taking advice on Bodywork that's for sure appreciate all you do
Great video. Very informative. You seem like you actually know what you’re doing, and continue learning even now. The worst thing about the trades is some people never want to learn new and better ways to do things. Some people are PROUD that they’ve never read a book or a detailed teaching article in years. No matter how good you are, you can always be better. You remind me of that saying. Good job my friend. 👏 👍🏼. I shall use this information now because I will be re-painting my cars underbody to get rid of surface rust spots, and stop them from getting worse/coming back. I know nothing is permanent, but I have also learned that the PREP WORK is 90% of painting, and good prep work will be the difference between it lasting one year versus several years. This will be the first time I thoroughly hit the rust with some sanding discs, followed by isopropyl alcohol to clean the duSt/grease. Only then will I use rust-primer then paint. Thank you!
Thank you for the kind compliment we are all still learning and trying to improve every day that’s what it’s about hopefully you get a lot out of the different videos that we are posting we just dropped another one today take care
I’ve been “experimenting” with a phosphoric acid treatment called Ospho. Thanks for the tips on application of the other product & thanks for sharing of your knowledge. That helps us all. I really like your videos, wish you continued success
Stuff is AMAZING. For real bad rust I use Kleen strip from big box home improvement muratic acid. Put that on a tough spot for 15. 30 min, wash off then use ospho over top after and the rust is dead and gone and not coming back. After the muratic and wash it will start to flash on right kind of day, humid but ospho loves a lil iron oxide. I've used this for decades and never knew how much time it can save. How do you like it?
@@clark5242 Loys of water, baking soda and water mix. Not a strong acid. Not like muratic. It works well. If you use it and use anything other than epoxy, just rewet, let sit 5 min thin give a good rinse with water, baking soda and water and dry. For bad rusted pieces and saving time I'll use muratic. Let it sit for 5-15 min and part should be pretty clean. Same thing with rinse. Any acid can be shut down with a base. Or if diluted with alot of water. I've used this for 3 decades. If using oil based paints no need to do anything but wipe off with mineral spirits. If using heavy Ospho you may get a white chalky dust. Ok. Just wipe off. Means u used more than needed. It's awesome stuff. Just make sure to knock off heavy chunks or rust that would fall off from hammer strike. I use a needle scaler. Works great.
It is refreshing to see some info and technique on proper metal conditioning before primer. I see so much information on prepping steel for epoxy primers that leaves out this "phosphating" step. Now, which epoxy primer do you use, how many mils of film build and how long of a cure time before sanding and applying filler? You are lucky to be able to do this in a warm low humidity climate.
worked for dearborn stove company in the late 1960,s early 70's,all their parts went thru a washer that used bonderite , they all came out of the dryer looking totally rusted. they were then painted, no primer of any kind, and everyone knows how long their stoves looked great .
Zinc you use it on commercial fishing steel hull boats. To draw rust to your zinc plates, then is slows maintenance processes over time. When resurface on the boat it is area to area the spray is consistent. 👍👍👍
Sylvester is an absolute genius and perfectionist , so , I absolutely followed his advice , even to the extent of wiping down the panel with a beach towell , everything came out better than perfect. Now my wife wants a divorce just because I used her favourite most expensive beach towell in the house . I like my car better than I like her anyway. Cheers Sylvester -great show and great information. At last someone who knows exactly how to do a job the correct way.... anyone out there need a wife ? take mine . Please.
I was messing around with Phosporic acic a couple of years ago trying to find a way to treat a bare metal shell and was working between the crusty white deposits and the gold sheen which I did indeed think was flash rust. I'm glad now to have seen this and filled the knowledge gaps. Subscribed !!!! Thanks
The thing is I have used Ospho for decades (on tugs and ships) and the instructions say to put it on and wait overnight and paint/prime right over it. However, there is a large number of professional coating experts that say to reapply (to reactivate) and then wipe off and neutralize prior to painting. I don't recall having any problems painting right over but when I did some weld repairs to one of my car's unibodies I went with their admonition and then coated the inner fender wells with Sherwin-Williams Duracoat 65 barge hull epoxy and it has been fine for the last 6 years. So, do we leave it on and paint over it (after it has etched or converted) or do we reapply and rinse?
I still use metal prep on my restos , don’t feel like “Self Etche” primer quite does the job. Sadly I’ve seen guys in “PRO “ shops doing fairly high dollar restos dumping that self etch over visible,Obvious RUST ,still see a couple I did 20-30 years ago and although they see limited use ,still look Very Presentable
I have tried that technique in the past and got bit bad when it caused adhesion issues with some Morton eliminator (which is now dead to me). I DA a panel down from 80-150-220 grit until it is extremely clean. I will spot sandblast bad pits or use Rustmort on minor remnant rust staining. I then go back over with a DA with 150 or coarser for a mechanical adhesion. Wax/grease wipe and seal. I personally don't trust metal prep products again after getting burned. Seems odd to not mechanically remove the surface rust and to intentionally allow a film barrier to remain over the bare metal and seal over it. Maybe I have PTSD. I do really enjoy your video.
Thank you. You must neutralize it with water. Nothing in this procedure is sealing in rust it’s removing it. We do nothing but high end show cars I’ve never had any issues. If it failed on you something was done incorrectly.
Good demo. Just one thing to add. You say use a Brillo pad but what you meant was Scotchbrite pad. Brillo is steel wool with soap added. Scotchbrite is a clean abrasive mesh.
All the videos are great to watch and very educational for the first time dear guys that are trying to perfect what they're doing I have a bit of a problem with my 69 Oldsmobile someone who purchased a car and did some body work but yet did not finish it when I bought the car the back passenger side corner part of the fender well going up toward the back glass has been replaced they welded it but did not finish it so it's more or less sunk in it's not much maybe a half inch but I would like to kind of raise it what should I do and if possible could y'all make a video on this type of problem
Have you ever used Rust Kutter or Black-Max? I believe Rust Kutter uses the acid that POR15 uses in it's 2nd step but with 3x the concentrate. I am working on cleaning up the underneath of my 68 camaro. I am currently using a combo a angle grinder and assortment of wire brushes as well as a high speed with with assortment of wire brushes. I have some really tight spots that I cannot completely get to and need some assistance with a good product. The acid make me nervous as I am working on my back and have some really tight angles don't want to leave and behind to create even bigger problems down the road later. Leaning more towards the Black-Max route atm.
Thanks for the great information. A little more narrative, listing the products and their location in the video timeline would be helpful. Some videos have segments related to the narrative, ot sure how they do it, but it really helps going back over the portions that the viewer wants to re look.
Well detailed video - thanks. HA - although a Scotchbrite type pad is not called a Brillio pad - Brillo are steel wool type pads - the Scotchbrite is a plastic pad. Keep up the good work. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
For simple rust mitigation in a battery tray area for example, how would I remove all of the rinse water with a towel without using the assistance of compressed air? My project is a rusty battery tray in my Pontiac Fiero. I will be eventually replacing the tray but that requires removing the old and welding the replacement in place... which requires removing part of the passenger side interior to safely weld the tray without causing a fire. I have used a Phosphoric Acid product, and rinsed it only to find what I thought was flash rust the next day. I applied the acid again and rinsed the area with Acetone. The product I used was Phosphoric Acid that I purchased at my local Home Depot. I did not use a 2 step process like you have. If I can't dry completely with a towel, and I can't used compressed air to assist in drying, then I imagine I shouldn't use water to neutralize the acid. What do you recommend I do in this situation? Also for a video idea, I would like to see some content on repairing chips, visible fibers, and cracks in SMC panels as well as prepping for primer and paint. Love the videos and easy to understand information!!
That was a lot of questions. If you have a tight area, that is hard to get to acid washing, may not be the best solution. For example, if we’re doing the interior of an old car, I would sand blast things like floor pans and firewalls that have more structure and shape but I will just acid wash exterior panels so that way I do not warp them. Thanks for the ideas. Will keep that in mind in the future.
This is great information and is beautifully presented! In my case I am restoring a piece of heavy equipment and as such it has some scrapes and gouges in areas of otherwise light rust. I can clear up the light surface rust in the way you are doing it here but cannot seem to get into the deeper scrapes to remove the rust as you can imagine. Deep-sanding them out would not be practical either, although I could fill them but would need to clean them out first. I have wire-wheeled and wire brushed the scrapes but still don't feel confident that these areas are as rust-free as the flat areas prior to applying my 2K epoxy primer. I could really use some tips from a more experienced person if you guys can help me out.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS yeah it has for sure ! Can’t find another channel anywhere that explains all the minor details like you guys and they’re very important minor details.
It all comes down to how much faith a person has in the process. I personally don't like acid, but for spot treating areas that cannot be done any other way I'd say it's alright. You have to have a lot of faith in this science as a person who is painting their baby. There is also the fumes, sometimes you build up so much acid fumes, dust etc. that you start rusting metal nearby. This is more over with the stronger acids, but to some degree even this acid. Acid destroys rust and also creates rust, it's really crazy. I saw a video here on YT showing a man who left a container of acid open in his work shop and the next day all his bare metal statues were rusted. If I us this stuff, it is far away from my garage, nasty stuff.
Very informative video once again mate. Question from a DIY, if your doing a complete ground up resto that's going to take a few years to complete how do you prep to metal but then also stop it from rusting over the longer term while your still working on it? Thanks in advance, James
You can use etching primer it works good because it’s very thin and if you have metal work to do you do not have to spend a bunch of time trying to get it all off it’s basically like painting water and it has enough acid in it that it holds off the rust. Should work for A decent amount of time as long as the car is indoors. Once all of your metal work is done then seal it up in epoxy and you can go right over the top of it
Very well presented video. If you have to tig weld after removing/neutralizing the rust do you have any suggestion on sequence of events i.e. do you use epoxy primer and then grind it away at the weld joint, use a weldable primer, etc? Thank you.
That is a great question you could obviously do this a few different ways I iLike to seal everything up in epoxy are usually mask off the edge that I am going to weld and use the weldable primer that is copper. Once all of the grinding and metal finishing is completed we then Spot prime the Epoxy. Now let’s use the example of a rusty floor and let’s say you sand blasted the floorboards so that way you can do your rust repair sometimes I like to use etching primer just to hold off any flash rusting because it is a lot easier to grind away since it is so thin versus a thicker epoxy once everything is done and welded in we then seal everything in epoxy last. I could even think of other scenarios but that should hopefully answer your question every project varies dependent on how the car is stripped
Great content! I appreciate your explanation on the process. Love to see a video on how to get rust out/treat in the hard to reach areas between panels or in frame rails. Thank you again for the great video
Honestly, the best way to get everything is to have the car acid dipped. We use a place all the way in Eugene Oregon. We have learned the hard way that not all acid dippers are the same sum will not do the full process where it illuminates the rust and some will and then you just have to get in there with special marvels to coat it
I had been using "Rust Cure" for my my etal prep. Seems to work very well but has now been discontinued. I had a number of gallons so just now running out. I am a mature but found that I did not like rinsing with water probably because the "rust colored hue" that produced. So I work out in with course scotch Brite a couple applications and then wipe dry. My experience it works better if I apply primer and top coat before acid wash is completely dry, within a few minutes to within a few hours. If I let it dry over night I always feel the need to scuff. I have painted a lot of rear axle housing in gloss black and not had adhesion problems. If there is a small area in a corner or crevas where some build up or where acid was is still more wet then that wet will bleed through the paint or primer and appear as a white dusty spot that easily wipes off.
You definitely don’t want to do that. The acid must be neutralized. That orange hue you are seeing is a chemical reaction when rinsing. Use warm water instead of cold 👍🏻
The first application of the blue chemical doesn't provide chemical adhesion. It eats the rust off chemically while it "conditions" or "etches" the steel and will start to re-rust almost immediately after flushing. The second step (green liquid) chemically bonds zinc phosphate to the steel to seal it from moisture and air. From there, you are getting mechanical adhesion with the epoxy to the zinc phosphate coating/crystals.
On panel like that I go at it with Muriatic Acid. Until completely free of rust. I paint the acid on. Then flush off with warm hot water and scrub with SOS pads and drawn liquid detergent. I use Then B&G mild acid and apply then dry.
can you preserve the patina ??… I have been bingeing on your Vlogs....each one is simply explained and concise. What should be understood...Rust is a living organism. If anyone has ever watched vintage *fir*arms* being restored...the Gunsmith either high temp steams or boils all the rusted parts..
Being that it is continuing to rust can you preserve it yes but there’s a gray area you can clearcoat over it but the longevity for long-term is just not there same goes for going over bare metal with clear coat
We actually just started doing a series on that check out the videos we have on the 61 impala it’s just starting and will be showing the entire process
I'd like that too. From first wash to assessment through all the different panel work. Especially the first wash. Haven't found info on it so contaminants aren't imbedded. Thanks
Thank you for your knowledge and time! I've watched hours and hours of your video content.... You get straight to the point, clear and simple! So because the phospho acid grows crystals and is great for epoxy primer... is it ok to mechanically strip acrylic paint/rust to bare metal AND also acid wash? Also what if we use a paint stripper such as Aircraft paint remover or Citrus Drip... Can we use the phosphoric acid on that smooth bare metal? I have a 1967 Grand Prix that has factory paint and rust- from surface to scaling to holes. Thank you
on my 1951 chevy pickup , i removed most of the old paint, rust and bad filler with a twisted wire cup on a 4 1/2" angle grinder. It only removed what I needed it to , everything else I had tried (due to budget) also removed good metal or worse, it would warp the good metal. afterwards because of the time frame between the initial metal cleaning/prep to current;y readying for epoxy, i sprayed a rust reformer on the metal to keep (alabama humidity)moisture from turning my clean metal back to a surface rust.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Only in Nazi states. Rest of us are free and can have guns and buy prep and etch. Move to AZ or Utah or NV. Surprised they haven't banned ppg.
Awesome content. Appreciate you you for taking the time to make this video to show the details that usually get skipped over. I've watched a lot of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most explained. I like the way you explain everything from start to finish step by step. Thanks for all you do I know it takes a lot of time to make these videos. I am about to prep a 67 F100 in Virginia. I was going to use a Muriatic acid wash with a Krud Kutter rust remover after to have time to paint. What your take on that setup? It's a lot cheaper and the Bonderite M-ZN5 is discontinued.
I don’t have any experience with those particular materials all I know is that if it’s typically cheaper most of the time you get what you pay for but who knows as for the part that was discontinued you do not have to have that product just use the one product CIC - 79 The only thing the product was doing was prolonging your window of time before you had to primer in epoxy. Hope that helps you
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Yes that helps. Yes I am upset that the conditioner was discontinued. I will probably just have to go over it again when I am ready to paint. What your thoughts on the Eastwood 2k Epoxy Primer?
@@willycsjr I used it on a buddies bug. It’s ok. You def get what you pay for in my opinion vp2050 is best from ppg it’s one primer that is all you need start to finish
If you could get your hands on A light duty wheel lift wrecker tow truck would be cool Rust oleum paint jobs through an HVLP seem to be trending for hobbyists working outdoors with limited time Adding Japan dryer, acetone , & a hardner to the paint for quick drying
mechanical adhesion, providing the metal is clean of oils etc is much better than chemical adhesion of an acid wash. With acid wash you may also be adding in contaminants that the acid wash doesn't like so it remains on the surface of the acid wash film. Been there done that and had to be there again to repaint a 64 1/2 mustang and a 66 chev pickup. First few of my few acid wash projects. Will never go that route again. Talked to other buddies that have been in the resto industry a lot longer than myself. They would never go that route again either. To many failed to bond paint jobs.
Great video I wish it was around 30 years ago 😂😅I strip a car down, the entire car to the bare metal and then I’ll treat it with metal prep 69. I spray it on there with a pump up sprayer maybe 2’x2’, let it dwell till it starts to dry a bit and I wipe it off firmly and quickly with paper towel, a lot of them. I t won’t rust for an easy month or two. Can’t let anybody touch it if I notice any kind of rust coming in, I’ll just wipe it down again(That’s in a closed shop) humidity in my shop today is about 64%.
This is epic information...instant subscribe...i didnt know after sandblasting you dont put a rust inhibitor,.... would you just hit the panel with a self etching epoxy primer, then base coat (sanding), then clear coat after sandblasting? ... and if some kind of body filler is needed seal first with primer after sandblasting, then bondo, then primer, base coat, clear coat?
Thanks for the sub! That’s a lot of questions. Etch primer is different than epoxy. Blast it blow it off and go straight to epoxy. Scuff epoxy then bodywork. Primer /sealer /base /clear
You may not be allowed to use this in the of humidity state of sunshine but a product called ospo is a one step application sprits bottle to apply wipe with scuff pad wipe any runs off . That’s it ! Scuff with 3m pad and paint . I pave a.car in the shed stripped to bare metal been there 20 years not rusted. The barn doesn’t leak but it is humid here in Mo. a shrimp boat skipper introduced me to ospo , glad he did
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS ospho can be found on the internet , if my memory is correct there in Ohio . My local mfa handles it , in Lebanon Mo. when I was farming I ordered it by the case , 4 gallons per box at that time it was 17.00 per gallon, most likely 2 1/2 times now . Might check farm supply’s and see if they can order it . A gallon goes A long ways!
Thanks for the great video! I have a question. It "seems" like there is still some of the white haze on the panel (air dried acid?). If so, how do you get rid of it? Keep rinsing and drying? Also, which epoxy are you using? DPLV? I am in California as well.
If you are getting the white powdery aftermath, you are not rinsing it enough and also, if you use hot water to rinse it, you won’t get the chemical reaction where it turns orange most people mistake it for rust. We use VP 2050 epoxy primer that is the only primer we use from start to finish.
Would we have to do the same with any type of phosphoric acid? Scrub and rinse ? Also what happens if you're working with a painted surface that has rust. For example a spot on the vehicle Rusty hitch that is attached to the back of a truck that has some rust but also some good paint. What would be the step for this If we can't take off the part Like ospho?
Hi Travis. I used a 50:50 mixture of water and phosphoric acid to remove surface rust on my cast iron parts. Then neutralized in water. But the flash rust came back and I’m going in circles. Question: Is it ok to epoxy primer after phosphoric acid without neutralizing? Can I use EvapoRust and then epoxy primer? Thanks, Paul
I suck at hammer and dolly metal work. Can you do a tutorial on metal bumping and shrinking? Thanks, and I love and use your advise all the time on my ‘53 Chevy pick up restomod.
I'm not great but learning. The main trick seems to be to find a shape on the dolly which matches the curvature you need. There is a sort of standard set of dollies which developed over the years, accounting for the ones in the Harbor Freight kit. When you get the metal to match the dolly, the hammering changes from dull thud to a solid "ting". With good lighting, you can actually see the metal move as you tap. Just needs small tapping, especially on newish cars with thinner sheet metal. Start at the outside of the dent and work in, to shrink the metal. In parts on the car like doors, the hardest part is getting access to the inside to hold the dolly tight against the inner surface. Shops sometimes cut and peel the door frame out to get access, then spot-weld it back based on repairs I've seen. If the inside of the panel is coated with sound-proofing, I doubt holding a dolly would help, so a place for filler. I also have the HF stud-welder which lets you pop out dents without the old method of drilling holes for sheet-metal screws. I fixed several of my cars with it. For very shallow dents, you might get by not repainting if you cover the dolly hammer face with plastic sheet and tap lightly.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS thank you for that information. My old hammers are still in good condition but I lost my favorite dollies. I only have my basic heel dolly. Past employers and coworkers took the good ones. So I may have to contact Martin Brothers.
All of the product information is in the description you will need to find this at a local automotive paint supply or look up where you can get it local to you. Every state is different.
I really dig your videos, they're very informative. How should I deal with surface rust in areas I can't access to scrub or rinse? In my case the roof area between the skeletal structure and the roof panel. Also I'd like to stop the rust inside the tubular roof structure and surface rust inside the rockers. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I was afraid you'd say that. I don't think that's going to work for my project. I was thinking Eastwood internal frame coating or POR15. Do you have any experience with these products? I have used Eastwood Fastetch with good results, but it should be neutralized. Thanks for the quick reply.
Thanks a lot for the video. I just bought a gallon of that. When I first got started on my restoration I purchased a gallon of the eastwood epoxy primer. I want to paint the car in a high quality single stage to keep the car looking original. I'm now wondering if their epoxy primer is good to use under any paint system? I heard you use ppg, what would you recommend without breaking the budget? My local shop sells "Nason" and I've heard that is not the greatest. Thanks again, I'm also in California, so some products can be tough to get.
Like anything you pretty much get what you pay for I have personally shot the Eastwood epoxy and it’s not the greatest here’s my thought on that. We use PPG VP 2050 it is an epoxy/high build hybrid. So if you are using the Eastwood system you will end up needing to buy a polyester and then you will have to buy a urethane at some point. If you add all those materials up it is more money than spending it on the good stuff with PPG. I know there are other good brands out there but I am just most familiar with PPG.
I "wet " sand blast tractor chassis as it removes grease, dirt, paint and heavy rust all at once however it does flash rust due to being wet for a few hours. If I apply Phosphoric acid to a pitted surface and rinse then towel dry / air dry, apply epoxy primer then straight to top coat without sanding, is there a risk of de-lamination? I don't sand or prime in between because i like to preserve the cast marks from factory.
Yes you are risking delamination. Phosphoric acid should not be used on a porous surface because you will never get it completely free of the acid if you are doing the method for these tractors that you described I would recommend doing the sand blasting dry. You can then just blow it off to remove the dust and that is the cleanest you are going to get it and eliminate any areas of flash rusting. You can go directly to epoxy over that and top coat. PPG even has it in their technical data sheet to go directly over a sandblasted surface without acid washing. The only time you would really want to do acid washing is for a machine sanded surface that has good metal and is smooth. I hope that helped and answered your question. Thx for watching.
Great rundown. That answers a lot of questions. I’m going to DIY strip/repaint my hood soon, and am still trying to lock-down my material selection. If I were to epoxy-prime on a perfectly straight panel DA’d down to bare metal with 80-grit, how critical is using a hi-build primer before painting it? What I remain confused-on is ‘types’ of epoxy primer. Is there an epoxy primer that eliminates multiple steps? Can you go straight to a high-build variant, or, completely skip that using the initial epoxy primer and go straight to basecoat? I’d really like to see the following priming steps (with a DIY-er in-mind) demonstrated in another episode. My goal is to lay-down ample clearcoat, perfect it on the polishing stage, but also see it last for many years in the Texas sun. I’ll be using a factory basecoat and 2K clearcoat for my project. I’d love to see a demo on your panel taking that approach. Thanks!
Oh by the way, I've only got spray cans to work with. I'm working on a 1st Gen Dodge D250 and the top is pitted and I want to at least prime it, have sanded 95% of the top down to the metal but would like to prep it the way you demonstrated.
If you are going to use the spray can be sure to use the two part catalyst style spray can. If you are feeling up there metal it needs to be a true epoxy primer if you are using just a standard 1K primer it will not hold up
As a retired bodyman, I just want to give you my big congratulations! In my 35 years in the business I had a lot of training. From manufacturer to refinisher to restoration. I've worked in almost a dozen shops and none of them were as thorough with the handling of material or the vehicle it's used on as you are. Sometimes I would get in ferosous fights with the management or owners because I would be "too thorough". A couple fired me, I walked away from the others. GM trained, PPG trained and certified. Chevrolet certified, Buick Best in Class Award. ASE certified. And numerous other training sessions. I feel I've forgotten more than most techs will ever know. I always took pride in my work. Wouldn't let them change my habits or make me cut corners. Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't wrong with my procedures. More "experts" need your advice or training.
Most companies don’t have time to be too tech savvy. It’s about the bottom line and cutting cost. The dozen shops you work for they don’t wanna be precise it affects the bottom line. And their success would be critically hampered by doing things the right way. I understand you perfectly as I do I’m a stickler for doing things correctly. But in the fast moving world we sometimes do not have that much time..
@@MrCbell57 that's why I'm glad I'm retired now.
@@MrCbell57 I was always breaking book time on the jobs. 100+ hours in a 43 hour workweek? We were all profitable. Just personal conflicts with the managers. Didn't do things their way, so we argued.
@@mikemcgown6362 >Mike, I agree with you and your decision to spend time over and above the time that flat rate may pay for certain job. There are many mangers who are half out age, as some have tech school experience on a vehicle from being to end. While at the right place at the right time, find themselves in charge of say, 8 techs. The techs who actually produce a product either R&R, Body work, a guy who preps by cleaning & taping a vehicle paint ready, then the painters.
Depending a shops set up, you maybe just the painter. But you ethics see thinks that are not right, then take upon yourself to work extra to fix it right before primer, base and clear go on, book time appears in the managers computer as a tech with low efficiency. A repair tech is judged by square feet, hours turned in but could be higher if corners are cut, the efficiency rating or dollars per sq ft shows you lower than the tech next to you. Since the manager has no clue, he/she only feel you are not as fast or falling behind. It is not quality only quantity! Produce more and to hell with quality, longevity or correctness!
This is the disconnect in shops. Managers may get a salary but depend on productivity to get a bonus weekly! It is a crying shame that profit over product is more important!
I completely understand.
My daughter called my wife crying because a “Brakes Plus” want $620 for front brakes. This can’t be right!
I ask to see the estimate. They had $110 for ceramic pads, but listed “Loaded Calipers” for $145 just below it. Since I knew drum was on the back, nothing! I asked the lady service advisor to find out. She went to ask the tech, returned 6 minutes later and told me; “He did not pull any rear drum, so we did get that far.”
What? The rear brakes are part of a complete system plus you have 2 pair of brake pads on the ticket. She looked confused and reviewed the estimate. What do you mean sir. I point out the loaded calipers that have pads installed out of the box, yet here is about her set on top! I am sorry, she said. I told her to properly judge the brake system front and rear all have to be inspected. I had them install the wheel and bring it up front. I bought lifetime ceramic front pads, cleaned, lubed with high-temp PTFE grease and was done in an hour. The pads cost $34 and she gave me some money and went home. No one knows or does their job plus they don’t care!
@@deankay4434 you want to hear the real kicker to my argument? I was turning an average of 100 flat rate hours in a 43 hour workweek. Cutting corners like they wanted wouldn't make it any faster or any better. Blending onto adjacent panel could save a lot of time over tint-to-match colors, although I was VERY good at matching colors.
Great explanation. An old panel beater told me over 40 years ago ; "Never touch a bare panel with your hand or you will cause a rusty handprint." Since then I've watched countless videos where people feel panels they have just sanded bare, without gloves.
Glad to see someone knows what they're doing.
I've been doing bodywork since the late 80s actually I changed to the upholstery side a few years back. Anyway, we know not to touch bare metal without gloves but I rubbed my bare hands on metal all the time. Cars I did 30 years ago still look great and have no issues from touching the metal.
@@duckdays9451 Do you recall if you had bog dust on your hands at the time?
@@bossdog1480 When doing filler work and feeling the panel I would have dust on my hands. But I have touched panels without dust on them. I'm not a sweaty person and in New England we generally aren't real humid. We also used a blow gun and hands to clean off a panel just before priming. I also never use wax and grease remover on painted panels before repainting for repairs unless there was oil or something on it. It seemed to cause more fisheyes than not. I had one of my cars in the shop for at least 5 years in bare metal that I worked on doing welding and panel fitting that never rusted. I of course I would still sand the metal before primer though. I am not like a lot of newer people I talk to that do autobody where they do one job. I do everything from welding to paint. I've done chop tops, sections. Converted a 40 Pacard to a convertible and a bunch of other stuff. I wish I took more pictures of my work but digital cameras weren't a thing and even now with interiors I still never think about it. You can see one of my cars in the background of this video. th-cam.com/video/KqECVp930yQ/w-d-xo.html
@@duckdays9451 Very nice.
I've watched heaps of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most clearly explained. Finally a video that covers all the bases. Well done & Hi from Australia
Thank you very much
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMShi mate, probably a stupid question but is this stuff the same as a deoxidine?
@@JimmyJohnson7077 sorry I have no clue
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS no worries
This is the best bodywork channel on TH-cam. You guys have cleared up so many confusing topics for me. Great job!
Glad you think so!
How does this dude only have 6k subscribers???? This dudes page needs to blow up because he teaches you how to get those great finishes and it all starts from the bottom!!!! Awesome videos!!!
Probably because he's showing how to WORK. People don't want to do that sort of thing.
@@mikemcgown6362 ahhhhh ha ha ha or at least do it right lol
@@gladememmott3001 I may just be old school but I see a lot of people just take the easy way.
He dont have a Jolene.
@@SOLDOZER good point.... Damn that Jolene tho...... Ka-pow
Class is in session, very detailed !!! This kind of info can't be found on any label. I'm glued to these videos, I have much to learn and what I thought I knew is junk. Thanks for making these videos, this one is my starting point.
You are very welcome. I’m glad to help.
I am building a 55 Chevy. I am watching all of your videos. Each one I am learning a lot. This car is turning out the nicest one I have built. Back in my day of building cars all products were so different. You have shown me new products that has made my life a lot easier. THANKS ! 😊
That is awesome! Glad to hear it!
I visit multiple body shops and all have different methods,some due process associated to the particular products used. It always helps learn or be reassured of process associated with a particular product.
Very helpful. I am restoring vintage motorcycles and struggling with pre-paint prep. I tried several different phosphate solutions only to find sections of the treated metal turned brown, which prompted me to re-blast the part. 3 things I learned from this video. (1) The brown is not rust. (2) Parts should not be air-drying the parts. (3) Phosphate is not compatible with blasting.
I even went so far to call tech support at Ospho about parts tuning brown and they were not able to not explain why. I'm now motivated to try phosphate treatment again avoiding the mistakes I made thanks to your video.
Rinse with hot water not cold and it also won’t turn brown 👊🏻😎
Just a DIY Automotive painter for a hobby but this channel straight up gave me more motivation to solve some barriers I’ve had just tryna figure out ! Good stuff man keep the videos coming
Awesome glad to hear it!!
I'm getting ready to tackle a restoration of a 1960 British Morgan. Your videos are excellent, straight forward steps on body and paint work. Thanks!
I’m glad you like them!
Using warm water to rinse the panel is supposed to prevent the rust-like brown appearance from forming.
Great video! This and epoxy primer is the closest a body shop can get to the e-coat process.
Agreed I found about the hot water trick after making this 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I just acquired a stripped down MGB thats been blasted, painted in red oxide and stored for decades.
Your videos are boosting my confidence with regards to how to go about getting the best finish i can while doing everything myself. Thank you
You are welcome!
I really enjoyed the pace at which you were sharing this information. Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much!
Agreed. Well done & aimed at learning a process. Not hyping anything. Thanks for your videos.
Rick
I like the way you explain everything from start to finish step by step. Thanks for all you do I know it takes a lot of time to make these videos.
Thank you very much
Another great video with 5x more detail and insight than others on the same topic.
Glad you explained the “copper colored” finish you saw after rinsing the phosphoric acid off. I freaked when that happened to me and stopped using it. I thought it was some kind of oxidation. I searched all over the web and couldn’t find an explanation
If you rinse the acid off with warm water instead of cold it won’t turn orange on you either 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS thanks for pointing that out!
Thanks for the info. Is it any concern using cold tap water and ending up with that orange surface? I’m looking to apply epoxy as the next step.
Another question. Those Bonderite product instruction sheets say use on galvanized steel. What about older car sheet metal which is not galvanized? Use the same stuff?
@@tomkirby2355 I recommend doing it over just do smaller sections and overlap and dry as quick as possible. You can get a clean job with no orange just takes practice even with cold water
Thank You easy to follow. Need more on all these primers Epoxy, urethane,high build when and how to apply.
We already have a video on that
Appreciate the clarity and concise explanation now I just need to find something comparable up here on Vancouver Island.
Good luck !
Great channel. Keep producing quality videos like these and I expect this channel to explode.
Thank you very much we appreciate it!
this is perhaps the single most interesting and cool collection of vehicles i've ever seen - '59 Impala, Pantera, Bronco, and who knows what other hidden gems. sir, you are obviously doing things right.
Thank you so much we love all cars no matter what they are from Lowriders to Hot Rods and art pieces. We do whatever needs to get done.
Awesome content. Appreciate you guys taking the time to make these videos and show the details that usually get skipped over.
A video on filler best practices and application would be awesome. Also would like to see a more general video on the best order of taking these cars from stripped to built back up to paint.
Perfect we will do just that! Thanks for your input!
That’s a good clear explanation of a subject that’s is not simple. thank you because you just answered a question I had while trying to solve a rusted auto body. It’s funny, because in my profession (not automotive),someone might ask me detailed question about something. And the answer is “it depends”, because there is no yes or not, or one simple solution.
Im finding there’s more than one solution to rusted auto body repairs.
Absolutely so many ways! 👍🏻👍🏻
great info! I enjoyed your throughness of explaining the differences in chemical verses mechanical metal prepping.Thank you for your time and attention to detail!!
Glad you liked it more coming soon. Thank you
I just stripped an old S10 frame to metal that had 40 years of surface rust on it with a 4GPM power washer and a sand blasting attachment. Dirty job, but it strips it down quickly. You do go through tips. I etched primered then sealed. Now Im putting a flat black enamel on top of it. Definately not a professional job more of a hobbiest, but hobbying is cheaper. Then I will be ready to build the truck back up
Just happened on to this video. I am subscribing and will look forward to more. The attention to detail impresses me. Thanks
I just used a rust remover on my truck and it was amazing-- it's a green gel you paint on with a brush-- apply liberally and let sit for 10 to 20 minutes then thoroughly rinse (hose) it off. It works like paint stripper and though I had to do several applications because I had deep rust- it got rid of all of it- can't fix the pitting obviously, but boy did I save my arms and sander-- am down to bare metal-- no spraying into the atmosphere, no scrubbing. You do have to clean it thoroughly with alcohol after.
👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
GREAT EXPLANATION, NICE PANTERA AND BRONCO IN THE BACK ROUND
Enjoy the videos. I learn something new every time I watch your videos. Keep em coming
Thank you!
You mentioned being in California and not being able to get all the best chemicals, and having used to live out there I get it. If you had no restrictions, what would you recommend?
Thank you for your videos. I don't know of anyone else teaching these things on TH-cam in such an easy to understand way. You're a natural teacher.
Thank you! To be honest I’ve never gotten to use anything other than products in CA there’s not a huge difference. The products I use with ppg I love so I’d just stick with it.
Justa video idea how to prime Bodywork and prep for paint on plastic bumpers. You're my main guy on taking advice on Bodywork that's for sure appreciate all you do
Sounds good if we get a plastic bumper in the future we will do that
Love the Pantera behind you - would love to have seen a start to finish of that! I have a '71 I'm restoring now
We have a video on it and more we will be doing soon. For daily updates check out our Instagram on it 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Following it now - will have some questions for ya! So far - so good
Great video. Very informative. You seem like you actually know what you’re doing, and continue learning even now. The worst thing about the trades is some people never want to learn new and better ways to do things. Some people are PROUD that they’ve never read a book or a detailed teaching article in years. No matter how good you are, you can always be better. You remind me of that saying. Good job my friend. 👏 👍🏼. I shall use this information now because I will be re-painting my cars underbody to get rid of surface rust spots, and stop them from getting worse/coming back.
I know nothing is permanent, but I have also learned that the PREP WORK is 90% of painting, and good prep work will be the difference between it lasting one year versus several years. This will be the first time I thoroughly hit the rust with some sanding discs, followed by isopropyl alcohol to clean the duSt/grease. Only then will I use rust-primer then paint. Thank you!
Thank you for the kind compliment we are all still learning and trying to improve every day that’s what it’s about hopefully you get a lot out of the different videos that we are posting we just dropped another one today take care
I’ve been “experimenting” with a phosphoric acid treatment called Ospho. Thanks for the tips on application of the other product & thanks for sharing of your knowledge. That helps us all. I really like your videos, wish you continued success
Thank you very much. I’ve heard of that product I hear it’s good!
Stuff is AMAZING. For real bad rust I use Kleen strip from big box home improvement muratic acid. Put that on a tough spot for 15. 30 min, wash off then use ospho over top after and the rust is dead and gone and not coming back. After the muratic and wash it will start to flash on right kind of day, humid but ospho loves a lil iron oxide. I've used this for decades and never knew how much time it can save. How do you like it?
@@kitjasabsgabs1830 I was gonna ask about Ospho too, since it is available almost anywhere. How does one neutralize it?
@@clark5242 Loys of water, baking soda and water mix. Not a strong acid. Not like muratic. It works well. If you use it and use anything other than epoxy, just rewet, let sit 5 min thin give a good rinse with water, baking soda and water and dry. For bad rusted pieces and saving time I'll use muratic. Let it sit for 5-15 min and part should be pretty clean. Same thing with rinse. Any acid can be shut down with a base. Or if diluted with alot of water. I've used this for 3 decades. If using oil based paints no need to do anything but wipe off with mineral spirits. If using heavy Ospho you may get a white chalky dust. Ok. Just wipe off. Means u used more than needed. It's awesome stuff. Just make sure to knock off heavy chunks or rust that would fall off from hammer strike. I use a needle scaler. Works great.
@@clark5242what do you do when using epoxy?
It is refreshing to see some info and technique on proper metal conditioning before primer. I see so much information on prepping steel for epoxy primers that leaves out this "phosphating" step. Now, which epoxy primer do you use, how many mils of film build and how long of a cure time before sanding and applying filler? You are lucky to be able to do this in a warm low humidity climate.
We actually just posted a video on exactly this it talks about all of those questions 👍🏻
Very clear explanation.
Glad I found your vids.
I’ll be back for more.
Cheers from down under.
Thank you!!
worked for dearborn stove company in the late 1960,s early 70's,all their parts went thru a washer that used bonderite , they all came out of the dryer looking totally rusted. they were then painted, no primer of any kind, and everyone knows how long their stoves looked great .
That’s pretty cool to hear actually lol
Harbor freight now have those stripping drums for the sct removal tool. I've tried both now and they work just as good at a much better price.
Thanks for sharing
Intro looks great! Nice work and great content as always. Thank you guys for all you do
Thank you very much!!!
Zinc you use it on commercial fishing steel hull boats. To draw rust to your zinc plates, then is slows maintenance processes over time. When resurface on the boat it is area to area the spray is consistent. 👍👍👍
Your knowledge and teaching skills are fantastic .
Thank you, hope we can get you more info that’s helps you out.
Sylvester is an absolute genius and perfectionist , so , I absolutely followed his advice , even to the extent of wiping down the panel with a beach towell , everything came out better than perfect. Now my wife wants a divorce just because I used her favourite most expensive beach towell in the house . I like my car better than I like her anyway. Cheers Sylvester -great show and great information. At last someone who knows exactly how to do a job the correct way.... anyone out there need a wife ? take mine . Please.
No thanks. I've got a classic car that I've had for 35? years.Several girl friends and 2 wives have come and gone in that time! Don't need another!
Nah I've excaped several times already. Getting to old to run and hid
Great videos been getting into them I'm doing my own car at home here in Aussie land thanks for the good info 👍
I was messing around with Phosporic acic a couple of years ago trying to find a way to treat a bare metal shell and was working between the crusty white deposits and the gold sheen which I did indeed think was flash rust. I'm glad now to have seen this and filled the knowledge gaps. Subscribed !!!! Thanks
The thing is I have used Ospho for decades (on tugs and ships) and the instructions say to put it on and wait overnight and paint/prime right over it. However, there is a large number of professional coating experts that say to reapply (to reactivate) and then wipe off and neutralize prior to painting. I don't recall having any problems painting right over but when I did some weld repairs to one of my car's unibodies I went with their admonition and then coated the inner fender wells with Sherwin-Williams Duracoat 65 barge hull epoxy and it has been fine for the last 6 years. So, do we leave it on and paint over it (after it has etched or converted) or do we reapply and rinse?
@@butziporsche8646 My question too. Hear it both ways
@@butziporsche8646 I wiped mine down with wax and grease remover. I am wondering if I screwed up....?
@@clark5242 I would say that would be a great idea prior to etching with Ospho type products
@@butziporsche8646 this would be after. Then I put primer on
I still use metal prep on my restos , don’t feel like “Self Etche” primer quite does the job. Sadly I’ve seen guys in “PRO “ shops doing fairly high dollar restos dumping that self etch over visible,Obvious RUST ,still see a couple I did 20-30 years ago and although they see limited use ,still look Very Presentable
Always love to see how y’all do your work. I’ve learned a lot from y’all. Keep the vids coming
Thank you there’s way more to come!
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS where are you located
Thank you for sharing, and explaining in a way that makes this accessible and easy to apply - subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
I have tried that technique in the past and got bit bad when it caused adhesion issues with some Morton eliminator (which is now dead to me). I DA a panel down from 80-150-220 grit until it is extremely clean. I will spot sandblast bad pits or use Rustmort on minor remnant rust staining. I then go back over with a DA with 150 or coarser for a mechanical adhesion. Wax/grease wipe and seal. I personally don't trust metal prep products again after getting burned. Seems odd to not mechanically remove the surface rust and to intentionally allow a film barrier to remain over the bare metal and seal over it. Maybe I have PTSD. I do really enjoy your video.
Thank you. You must neutralize it with water. Nothing in this procedure is sealing in rust it’s removing it. We do nothing but high end show cars I’ve never had any issues. If it failed on you something was done incorrectly.
Good demo. Just one thing to add. You say use a Brillo pad but what you meant was Scotchbrite pad. Brillo is steel wool with soap added. Scotchbrite is a clean abrasive mesh.
Um sure if it makes you feel better lol
I just opened a pack of Brillo brand "scotchbrite pads," so it seems they sell those as well as the soapy SOS pads you were referencing.
All the videos are great to watch and very educational for the first time dear guys that are trying to perfect what they're doing I have a bit of a problem with my 69 Oldsmobile someone who purchased a car and did some body work but yet did not finish it when I bought the car the back passenger side corner part of the fender well going up toward the back glass has been replaced they welded it but did not finish it so it's more or less sunk in it's not much maybe a half inch but I would like to kind of raise it what should I do and if possible could y'all make a video on this type of problem
I love your videos on body work. Keep 'em coming
Thank you!!
Have you ever used Rust Kutter or Black-Max? I believe Rust Kutter uses the acid that POR15 uses in it's 2nd step but with 3x the concentrate. I am working on cleaning up the underneath of my 68 camaro. I am currently using a combo a angle grinder and assortment of wire brushes as well as a high speed with with assortment of wire brushes. I have some really tight spots that I cannot completely get to and need some assistance with a good product. The acid make me nervous as I am working on my back and have some really tight angles don't want to leave and behind to create even bigger problems down the road later. Leaning more towards the Black-Max route atm.
I haven’t what is it?
Thanks for the great information. A little more narrative, listing the products and their location in the video timeline would be helpful. Some videos have segments related to the narrative, ot sure how they do it, but it really helps going back over the portions that the viewer wants to re look.
Well detailed video - thanks. HA - although a Scotchbrite type pad is not called a Brillio pad - Brillo are steel wool type pads - the Scotchbrite is a plastic pad. Keep up the good work. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
You are correct I always call them the wrong names. We always joke about it in the newer videos.
For simple rust mitigation in a battery tray area for example, how would I remove all of the rinse water with a towel without using the assistance of compressed air? My project is a rusty battery tray in my Pontiac Fiero. I will be eventually replacing the tray but that requires removing the old and welding the replacement in place... which requires removing part of the passenger side interior to safely weld the tray without causing a fire. I have used a Phosphoric Acid product, and rinsed it only to find what I thought was flash rust the next day. I applied the acid again and rinsed the area with Acetone. The product I used was Phosphoric Acid that I purchased at my local Home Depot. I did not use a 2 step process like you have. If I can't dry completely with a towel, and I can't used compressed air to assist in drying, then I imagine I shouldn't use water to neutralize the acid. What do you recommend I do in this situation? Also for a video idea, I would like to see some content on repairing chips, visible fibers, and cracks in SMC panels as well as prepping for primer and paint. Love the videos and easy to understand information!!
That was a lot of questions. If you have a tight area, that is hard to get to acid washing, may not be the best solution. For example, if we’re doing the interior of an old car, I would sand blast things like floor pans and firewalls that have more structure and shape but I will just acid wash exterior panels so that way I do not warp them. Thanks for the ideas. Will keep that in mind in the future.
This is great information and is beautifully presented! In my case I am restoring a piece of heavy equipment and as such it has some scrapes and gouges in areas of otherwise light rust. I can clear up the light surface rust in the way you are doing it here but cannot seem to get into the deeper scrapes to remove the rust as you can imagine. Deep-sanding them out would not be practical either, although I could fill them but would need to clean them out first. I have wire-wheeled and wire brushed the scrapes but still don't feel confident that these areas are as rust-free as the flat areas prior to applying my 2K epoxy primer. I could really use some tips from a more experienced person if you guys can help me out.
@@flyme-z7b if the scratches too deep, you need to sand it down or sandblast it
Great information ! This is one of my biggest concerns .
Hope it helps you out
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS yeah it has for sure ! Can’t find another channel anywhere that explains all the minor details like you guys and they’re very important minor details.
Best video I’ve seen about this, awesome
Thank you!
Is "Ospho", which I can find locally, acceptable sccid wash prep?
Thanks for your sharing.
I haven’t been able to get my hands on any but I hear good things I would think so
Best explanations I’ve seen.
Thank you for watching.
It all comes down to how much faith a person has in the process. I personally don't like acid, but for spot treating areas that cannot be done any other way I'd say it's alright. You have to have a lot of faith in this science as a person who is painting their baby. There is also the fumes, sometimes you build up so much acid fumes, dust etc. that you start rusting metal nearby. This is more over with the stronger acids, but to some degree even this acid. Acid destroys rust and also creates rust, it's really crazy. I saw a video here on YT showing a man who left a container of acid open in his work shop and the next day all his bare metal statues were rusted. If I us this stuff, it is far away from my garage, nasty stuff.
The acid that’s in this video is nowhere near as strong as you are describing. But outside of that I agree
Very informative video once again mate. Question from a DIY, if your doing a complete ground up resto that's going to take a few years to complete how do you prep to metal but then also stop it from rusting over the longer term while your still working on it?
Thanks in advance, James
You can use etching primer it works good because it’s very thin and if you have metal work to do you do not have to spend a bunch of time trying to get it all off it’s basically like painting water and it has enough acid in it that it holds off the rust. Should work for A decent amount of time as long as the car is indoors. Once all of your metal work is done then seal it up in epoxy and you can go right over the top of it
Very well presented video. If you have to tig weld after removing/neutralizing the rust do you have any suggestion on sequence of events i.e. do you use epoxy primer and then grind it away at the weld joint, use a weldable primer, etc? Thank you.
That is a great question you could obviously do this a few different ways I iLike to seal everything up in epoxy are usually mask off the edge that I am going to weld and use the weldable primer that is copper. Once all of the grinding and metal finishing is completed we then Spot prime the Epoxy. Now let’s use the example of a rusty floor and let’s say you sand blasted the floorboards so that way you can do your rust repair sometimes I like to use etching primer just to hold off any flash rusting because it is a lot easier to grind away since it is so thin versus a thicker epoxy once everything is done and welded in we then seal everything in epoxy last. I could even think of other scenarios but that should hopefully answer your question every project varies dependent on how the car is stripped
wow that.s bad ass i went though hell getting rust off my frame for my truck nice stuff there thanks for sharing
No problem just keep in mind it works good for light rust only.
Great content! I appreciate your explanation on the process. Love to see a video on how to get rust out/treat in the hard to reach areas between panels or in frame rails. Thank you again for the great video
Honestly, the best way to get everything is to have the car acid dipped. We use a place all the way in Eugene Oregon. We have learned the hard way that not all acid dippers are the same sum will not do the full process where it illuminates the rust and some will and then you just have to get in there with special marvels to coat it
Excellent video, will be following more!
Thank you
I did complete resto body work on one of those panteras finished in red, one of the easiest cars you can ever work on.
I had been using "Rust Cure" for my my etal prep. Seems to work very well but has now been discontinued.
I had a number of gallons so just now running out.
I am a mature but found that I did not like rinsing with water probably because the "rust colored hue" that produced.
So I work out in with course scotch Brite a couple applications and then wipe dry.
My experience it works better if I apply primer and top coat before acid wash is completely dry, within a few minutes to within a few hours. If I let it dry over night I always feel the need to scuff.
I have painted a lot of rear axle housing in gloss black and not had adhesion problems. If there is a small area in a corner or crevas where some build up or where acid was is still more wet then that wet will bleed through the paint or primer and appear as a white dusty spot that easily wipes off.
You definitely don’t want to do that. The acid must be neutralized. That orange hue you are seeing is a chemical reaction when rinsing. Use warm water instead of cold 👍🏻
The first application of the blue chemical doesn't provide chemical adhesion. It eats the rust off chemically while it "conditions" or "etches" the steel and will start to re-rust almost immediately after flushing. The second step (green liquid) chemically bonds zinc phosphate to the steel to seal it from moisture and air. From there, you are getting mechanical adhesion with the epoxy to the zinc phosphate coating/crystals.
On panel like that I go at it with Muriatic Acid. Until completely free of rust. I paint the acid on. Then flush off with warm hot water and scrub with SOS pads and drawn liquid detergent.
I use Then B&G mild acid and apply then dry.
Whatever works 👍🏻👌🏻
can you preserve the patina ??… I have been bingeing on your Vlogs....each one is simply explained and concise. What should be understood...Rust is a living organism. If anyone has ever watched vintage *fir*arms* being restored...the Gunsmith either high temp steams or boils all the rusted parts..
Being that it is continuing to rust can you preserve it yes but there’s a gray area you can clearcoat over it but the longevity for long-term is just not there same goes for going over bare metal with clear coat
Nice video brother I would like to see you guys do a car from start to finish like from tearing it down to painting it to finish
We actually just started doing a series on that check out the videos we have on the 61 impala it’s just starting and will be showing the entire process
I'd like that too. From first wash to assessment through all the different panel work. Especially the first wash. Haven't found info on it so contaminants aren't imbedded. Thanks
Thank you for your knowledge and time!
I've watched hours and hours of your video content.... You get straight to the point, clear and simple!
So because the phospho acid grows crystals and is great for epoxy primer... is it ok to mechanically strip acrylic paint/rust to bare metal AND also acid wash?
Also what if we use a paint stripper such as Aircraft paint remover or Citrus Drip... Can we use the phosphoric acid on that smooth bare metal?
I have a 1967 Grand Prix that has factory paint and rust- from surface to scaling to holes.
Thank you
Thanks for watching. Yes, you can use that after any of those scenarios.
on my 1951 chevy pickup , i removed most of the old paint, rust and bad filler with a twisted wire cup on a 4 1/2" angle grinder. It only removed what I needed it to , everything else I had tried (due to budget) also removed good metal or worse, it would warp the good metal. afterwards because of the time frame between the initial metal cleaning/prep to current;y readying for epoxy, i sprayed a rust reformer on the metal to keep (alabama humidity)moisture from turning my clean metal back to a surface rust.
So you left some material on the car? Why ?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS you misunderstood me. It didn't remove any good metal. Just the rust and old filler.
great video, can't buy that product in Australia so have been using diluted phosphoric acid and works a treat
Yeah they have discontinued certain products here as well
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Only in Nazi states. Rest of us are free and can have guns and buy prep and etch. Move to AZ or Utah or NV. Surprised they haven't banned ppg.
you are awesome. i seem to find the videos i need to watch starting with you or ending with you.. lol
Thank you!!!
Awesome content. Appreciate you you for taking the time to make this video to show the details that usually get skipped over. I've watched a lot of these metal prep videos, and this one by far is the most explained. I like the way you explain everything from start to finish step by step. Thanks for all you do I know it takes a lot of time to make these videos. I am about to prep a 67 F100 in Virginia. I was going to use a Muriatic acid wash with a Krud Kutter rust remover after to have time to paint. What your take on that setup? It's a lot cheaper and the Bonderite M-ZN5 is discontinued.
I don’t have any experience with those particular materials all I know is that if it’s typically cheaper most of the time you get what you pay for but who knows as for the part that was discontinued you do not have to have that product just use the one product CIC - 79 The only thing the product was doing was prolonging your window of time before you had to primer in epoxy. Hope that helps you
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS Yes that helps. Yes I am upset that the conditioner was discontinued. I will probably just have to go over it again when I am ready to paint. What your thoughts on the Eastwood 2k Epoxy Primer?
@@willycsjr I used it on a buddies bug. It’s ok. You def get what you pay for in my opinion vp2050 is best from ppg it’s one primer that is all you need start to finish
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS you have a link to the vp2050
"Limited" that's a super nice way of putting it.
If you could get your hands on A light duty wheel lift wrecker tow truck would be cool
Rust oleum paint jobs through an HVLP seem to be trending for hobbyists working outdoors with limited time
Adding Japan dryer, acetone , & a hardner to the paint for quick drying
mechanical adhesion, providing the metal is clean of oils etc is much better than chemical adhesion of an acid wash. With acid wash you may also be adding in contaminants that the acid wash doesn't like so it remains on the surface of the acid wash film. Been there done that and had to be there again to repaint a 64 1/2 mustang and a 66 chev pickup. First few of my few acid wash projects. Will never go that route again. Talked to other buddies that have been in the resto industry a lot longer than myself. They would never go that route again either. To many failed to bond paint jobs.
Could be your process I’ve never had an issue. We use a DA with 80 first for adhesion and I acid wash as well.
Great video I wish it was around 30 years ago 😂😅I strip a car down, the entire car to the bare metal and then I’ll treat it with metal prep 69. I spray it on there with a pump up sprayer maybe 2’x2’, let it dwell till it starts to dry a bit and I wipe it off firmly and quickly with paper towel, a lot of them. I t won’t rust for an easy month or two. Can’t let anybody touch it if I notice any kind of rust coming in, I’ll just wipe it down again(That’s in a closed shop) humidity in my shop today is about 64%.
This is epic information...instant subscribe...i didnt know after sandblasting you dont put a rust inhibitor,.... would you just hit the panel with a self etching epoxy primer, then base coat (sanding), then clear coat after sandblasting? ... and if some kind of body filler is needed seal first with primer after sandblasting, then bondo, then primer, base coat, clear coat?
Thanks for the sub! That’s a lot of questions. Etch primer is different than epoxy. Blast it blow it off and go straight to epoxy. Scuff epoxy then bodywork. Primer /sealer /base /clear
You may not be allowed to use this in the of humidity state of sunshine but a product called ospo is a one step application sprits bottle to apply wipe with scuff pad wipe any runs off . That’s it ! Scuff with 3m pad and paint . I pave a.car in the shed stripped to bare metal been there 20 years not rusted. The barn doesn’t leak but it is humid here in Mo. a shrimp boat skipper introduced me to ospo , glad he did
Where do you order ospho from isn’t it in Australia ?
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS ospho can be found on the internet , if my memory is correct there in Ohio . My local mfa handles it , in Lebanon Mo. when I was farming I ordered it by the case , 4 gallons per box at that time it was 17.00 per gallon, most likely 2 1/2 times now . Might check farm supply’s and see if they can order it . A gallon goes A long ways!
@@thedude4632 ACE hardware carries it.
That’s the way I understand it thanks for the refresher course. Great channel.
Thank you!!
Awesome video and information
Thank you!
Thanks for the great video! I have a question. It "seems" like there is still some of the white haze on the panel (air dried acid?). If so, how do you get rid of it? Keep rinsing and drying? Also, which epoxy are you using? DPLV? I am in California as well.
If you are getting the white powdery aftermath, you are not rinsing it enough and also, if you use hot water to rinse it, you won’t get the chemical reaction where it turns orange most people mistake it for rust. We use VP 2050 epoxy primer that is the only primer we use from start to finish.
I’d like to see more about filler and doing the body filler right? Thank you.
We have videos on filler out already. 👌🏻
Would we have to do the same with any type of phosphoric acid? Scrub and rinse ?
Also what happens if you're working with a painted surface that has rust.
For example a spot on the vehicle
Rusty hitch that is attached to the back of a truck that has some rust but also some good paint.
What would be the step for this
If we can't take off the part
Like ospho?
Yes you must neutralize the acid. I personally would strip it and start over.
This channel is awesome
Thank you
Hi Travis. I used a 50:50 mixture of water and phosphoric acid to remove surface rust on my cast iron parts. Then neutralized in water. But the flash rust came back and I’m going in circles.
Question:
Is it ok to epoxy primer after phosphoric acid without neutralizing?
Can I use EvapoRust and then epoxy primer?
Thanks,
Paul
That’s because cast iron parts are pourus. You can’t do an acid wash on parts that have pockets like blasting would have. You need to media blast them
Great info. Is this the same thing as ospho? You mentioned some products aren't available in California
Pretty much yes 👍🏻
I suck at hammer and dolly metal work.
Can you do a tutorial on metal bumping and shrinking?
Thanks, and I love and use your advise all the time on my ‘53 Chevy pick up restomod.
As a matter of fact we will be making one soon. Going to be doing a whole series of videos 👍🏻
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS hammer and dolly work is almost a lost art anymore. Hard to find quality hammers and dollies. Won't give up my 35 year old tools!
@@mikemcgown6362 could not agree with you more but if you do need to buy anything I recommend Martin Brothers brand
I'm not great but learning. The main trick seems to be to find a shape on the dolly which matches the curvature you need. There is a sort of standard set of dollies which developed over the years, accounting for the ones in the Harbor Freight kit. When you get the metal to match the dolly, the hammering changes from dull thud to a solid "ting". With good lighting, you can actually see the metal move as you tap. Just needs small tapping, especially on newish cars with thinner sheet metal. Start at the outside of the dent and work in, to shrink the metal. In parts on the car like doors, the hardest part is getting access to the inside to hold the dolly tight against the inner surface. Shops sometimes cut and peel the door frame out to get access, then spot-weld it back based on repairs I've seen. If the inside of the panel is coated with sound-proofing, I doubt holding a dolly would help, so a place for filler. I also have the HF stud-welder which lets you pop out dents without the old method of drilling holes for sheet-metal screws. I fixed several of my cars with it. For very shallow dents, you might get by not repainting if you cover the dolly hammer face with plastic sheet and tap lightly.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS thank you for that information. My old hammers are still in good condition but I lost my favorite dollies. I only have my basic heel dolly. Past employers and coworkers took the good ones. So I may have to contact Martin Brothers.
Excellent instruiction. Could you add links to the products you are using in the description?
All of the product information is in the description you will need to find this at a local automotive paint supply or look up where you can get it local to you. Every state is different.
I used to do this work years ago but the new materials really confuse me a bit I'd like to learn more about prime, seal and paint materials.
Watch our video on primers
I really dig your videos, they're very informative. How should I deal with surface rust in areas I can't access to scrub or rinse? In my case the roof area between the skeletal structure and the roof panel. Also I'd like to stop the rust inside the tubular roof structure and surface rust inside the rockers. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you. The absolute best way would be to find someone in your area to do acid tipping of the body. It gets in every single nook and cranny.
@@SYLVESTERSCUSTOMS I was afraid you'd say that. I don't think that's going to work for my project. I was thinking Eastwood internal frame coating or POR15. Do you have any experience with these products? I have used Eastwood Fastetch with good results, but it should be neutralized. Thanks for the quick reply.
Thanks a lot for the video. I just bought a gallon of that. When I first got started on my restoration I purchased a gallon of the eastwood epoxy primer. I want to paint the car in a high quality single stage to keep the car looking original. I'm now wondering if their epoxy primer is good to use under any paint system? I heard you use ppg, what would you recommend without breaking the budget? My local shop sells "Nason" and I've heard that is not the greatest. Thanks again, I'm also in California, so some products can be tough to get.
Like anything you pretty much get what you pay for I have personally shot the Eastwood epoxy and it’s not the greatest here’s my thought on that. We use PPG VP 2050 it is an epoxy/high build hybrid. So if you are using the Eastwood system you will end up needing to buy a polyester and then you will have to buy a urethane at some point. If you add all those materials up it is more money than spending it on the good stuff with PPG. I know there are other good brands out there but I am just most familiar with PPG.
I "wet " sand blast tractor chassis as it removes grease, dirt, paint and heavy rust all at once however it does flash rust due to being wet for a few hours. If I apply Phosphoric acid to a pitted surface and rinse then towel dry / air dry, apply epoxy primer then straight to top coat without sanding, is there a risk of de-lamination? I don't sand or prime in between because i like to preserve the cast marks from factory.
Yes you are risking delamination. Phosphoric acid should not be used on a porous surface because you will never get it completely free of the acid if you are doing the method for these tractors that you described I would recommend doing the sand blasting dry. You can then just blow it off to remove the dust and that is the cleanest you are going to get it and eliminate any areas of flash rusting. You can go directly to epoxy over that and top coat. PPG even has it in their technical data sheet to go directly over a sandblasted surface without acid washing. The only time you would really want to do acid washing is for a machine sanded surface that has good metal and is smooth. I hope that helped and answered your question. Thx for watching.
Great video and very well explained … Thank you
Thank you!
Great rundown. That answers a lot of questions. I’m going to DIY strip/repaint my hood soon, and am still trying to lock-down my material selection.
If I were to epoxy-prime on a perfectly straight panel DA’d down to bare metal with 80-grit, how critical is using a hi-build primer before painting it? What I remain confused-on is ‘types’ of epoxy primer.
Is there an epoxy primer that eliminates multiple steps? Can you go straight to a high-build variant, or, completely skip that using the initial epoxy primer and go straight to basecoat? I’d really like to see the following priming steps (with a DIY-er in-mind) demonstrated in another episode.
My goal is to lay-down ample clearcoat, perfect it on the polishing stage, but also see it last for many years in the Texas sun. I’ll be using a factory basecoat and 2K clearcoat for my project. I’d love to see a demo on your panel taking that approach. Thanks!
We actually have videos on this already out. Vp2050 is the only primer needed
Oh by the way, I've only got spray cans to work with. I'm working on a 1st Gen Dodge D250 and the top is pitted and I want to at least prime it, have sanded 95% of the top down to the metal but would like to prep it the way you demonstrated.
If you are going to use the spray can be sure to use the two part catalyst style spray can. If you are feeling up there metal it needs to be a true epoxy primer if you are using just a standard 1K primer it will not hold up
I love the way you explain everything. So where can I ordered the chemicals ?
For the rust?