"If you have been around so many dishonest people that you no longer trust anyone, you need to hang around with other people." This is why I love your channel.
Trusting the wrong people in my line of work will get you killed. I learned a long time ago to not trust anyone you dont know and be wary of those you do.
Tom, please return that rifle to FN. I am a retired lifelong machinist, manufacturing engineer, and quality manager. Your rifle's chamber is not concentric with the rifle bore. I had this myself on a Taurus 9mm. An aftermarket barrel took care of it. There is no fixing that barrel. At this point you can return it to FN and they should take care of it. If they don't, that will send a message to the rest of us longtime Model 70 owners. I had looked forward to buying one last Model 70 Super Grade after purchasing Model 70's since my first one in 225 Winchester a half century ago. But I don't want anything to do with them if that is typical of FN quality these days. It's bad enough they let one get out the door like that, but if they don't do you right, it's unforgivable. So, you see, you have to send it back, for all of us to know. I would suggest making some tiny mark on the barrel on an inconspicuous spot concealed by the stock, then returning it. You'll know if they changed the barrel then. Otherwise they may run a throating reamer in, and then you will have a throat concentric to the bore, but not with your chamber. It will look like it is fixed, but won't be. God bless and keep up the great videos!
Tom, many years ago I bought a Winchester 70xtr in .257 Roberts with a absolutely exquisite piece of wood on it. Uncommon to say the least. I was so thrilled to have found this very uncommon beauty in the rare 257 chambering, I was beside myself. What a trophy!! Until I shot the rifle. My God, this thing threw bullets from one side of the target to the other. Didn't matter what it was fed, it puked everything. I was sick!! To shorten the story I complained to Winchester about the gun and they actually took it back and rebarreled it in New Haven. This fixed the issue and the rifle has been perfect ever since. My original 257 was still a classic original. My suggestion to you is no matter what, even if you must beg, borrow, or steal to get it done, see if there is not some way to get FN to rebarrel this rifle in their facility. It's a classic, very rare and worth the effort. One other note, this was not the first M-70 I have owned that really did not perform well. Thats why at this point, and just a personal thing, beautiful as they are, the last on my list for purchase if I want a troublefree rifle that shoots. Good luck!!
Tom. Thank you for the great video. On my new Winchester Model 70 30-06, the bore has even and symmetric grooves. However, I too had problems with accuracy with similar horizontal POI shifts. I tried all sorts of factory loads from about 8-10 manufacturers. I was about to give up on this Model 70. I found the problem was a lack of sufficient bedding of the action. I bedded the recoil lug and rear tang, and this solved my accuracy problems. Good luck and don't give up hope.
Tom, thanks for this great series. Iv’e learned a few things along the way, as well as being entertained. One thing to consider, if you send it back to the manufacturer, you will be bringing a problem to their attention & give them a chance to make it right & instill confidence in them for others thinking about buying one of their rifles. If they handle it poorly, that would also be a public service to other potential customers , & then you can decide what to do after that. At the least, send them a video or photos or some documentation that points out the defect. Just a thought & keep up the great work!
Congrats on your detective work. Did this to myself on my first threading and chambering job. I left a burr at the end of the throat and wasted some ammo before I figured it out. If your gunsmith's reamer has a little longer throat it will fix the problem. Maybe even do a Ackley chamber if he has that reamer. What FN did is start the chamber with drill bits and cleaned it up with a boring bar before using the reamer, all on a CNC machine. They do this to save reamers. But if the CNC is not homed correct it will be off center enough that the reamer can't fix it.
Tom, I figured the patient and stubborn part out but I'm even worse. My fix for that beautiful rifle is 257AI improved with a long throat. I have thourally enjoyed the series..Will be watching for the strong finish!!!!
I just recently picked up a REM 722 in 257 Roberts. Built in 1956. Rifle is in great shape. Haven't shot it yet. I measured the barrel with a cleaning rod to the bolt face and only get 20.5". This really handicaps this round even more on velocity. From what I can see, they only made 22" and 24" barrels. I am wondering if someone cut it down, because it looked to me like the but stock was shortened then lengthened with some spacers and a recoil pad. Gonna shoot it for sure first, but now considering having a new barrel made for it at 24". Then I started thinking, why not the 257 AI? You can still find the Roberts and +p ammo at gun shows and online, but the AI, not sure that would be available. I got 70 rounds of ammo with this rifle for $350.
Mr. Tom, you are the definition of “wherewithal”. That was excellent any This ol’ knucklehead learned several things about rifle accuracy. Looking forward to seeing Joey’s .270 WSM!
Completely agree this black swan was/is a great project! I, too, learned from this rifle. I wasn’t too familiar with lands starting unequally, either. Like you, I realized machining issues can and do occur in that area in the form of tolerances etc., but not necessarily this unequally with lands. And, very clever way to put this week’s video out. JMHO, it would be neat to see you eventually get a new barrel put on with a 1/9 twist, like the gentleman at the range. Have a great week!
Hey Tom. First video of yours I've seen, really enjoyed it. I once worked on a beautiful Parker Hale .243 that did almost the exact same thing. Cured it by doing a "one shot, then clean" routine for 20 rounds. Excellent accuracy afterwards. Thanks again for fun video.
i stopped the video at 35sec because I was laughing out loud. I love this guy! What a joy you are, Tom. Please keep doing all you do. Faithful subscriber here, I watch and enjoy. God bless, And have a great day!
Thank you Tom. I have just discovered your clips and can appreciate your patience concerning rifle problems. I'd say at a guess you have it shooting just fine by now and I shall be looking out for the end results.
It might be a simple process to return the barreled action to Winchester. I would expect they would likely replace the barrel with another. The repair and warranty department likely has highly skilled personnel that would be the best ones to address the the issue. Having it sitting in your gun case will only make you more unhappy with your discovery. It also would take less time and money. You have plenty of other good rifles to use this season. 🤞👍
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving That's what I would do. You have nothing to lose by doing it, and if the result isn't satisfactory and your heart is still set on this Winchester, you could invest in getting it rebarreled, either in .257 Roberts or another caliber, easier if you stick to the same case head size, of course. As it happens, the .257 Roberts has the exact same case head size as the .308 Winchester, the .30-06 and all of the cartridges derived from the venerable '06, and the parent case for the .257 Roberts, the 7x57mm Mauser.
Good video! My dad had a problem similar to yours. many years ago my dad acquired a Geco in 220 Swift. The man that gave it to my dad was a Quaker preacher and he told my dad that it was not accurate. My dad being a machinist and worked on many rifles and pistols in his shop was determined to resolve the problem. After doing everything he could think of the problem was still with the rifle. He decided to recrown it thinking it was a waste of time. When he took the rifle to the range it shot one bullet on top of one another at a 100 YD. it wound up being one of the most accurate rifles he had. Never give up is a good motto for all of us!
i bought this same rifle about 25 yrs ago -model 70 xtr featherweight in 257 roberts -every time the weather changed so would point of impact-took it to a well known gunsmith and he glass bedded stock and free floated barrel-always hand loaded ammo and she shoots like a dream ever since
Thanks Tom, I've enjoyed following along on this project. Personally I know what I'd do, but it is likely not what you'd want to do. I'd have that barrel removed and replaced with and ER Shaw custom in 257 Roberts. I know it isn't the original, but I am all about getting this thing up and running. The Shaw barrel looks to be about $200 then some more for the gun smith, but after that you'll have a great shooting and great looking rifle. I guess it comes from putting together the Mausers that I have. I never looked at them as restorations, but modifications to create shooters for the field. Anyway, good luck and yes deer season is upon us. It's time to get in the woods.
I bought a used 7X57 Mauser Model 70 Feartherweght the other day. When I picked it up, I inspected the bore. It was plenty fouled. Well, I followed a lot of tips gleaned from your recent episode cleaning your .257 Roberts. The bore is super duper shiny! I installed a rifle scope this afternoon. The Loctite is curing and then I will take it to the range and sight it in with some PPU 139 grain ammo. I finished off the cleaning with my bore snake! Boy, that took some muscle🥴. I ain't as young as I used to be. But, if the darn bore snakes were shorter, I'd have better leverage!
Great video Tom !!!! I have two Remington 257 Roberts rifles that I have labored with over the past two years and have found them to be very load sensitive. The first is a 700 Classic Long Action with a 24 inch barrel and what appears to be a shade over 1:10 twist. It has become a tack driver with 87 and 100 grain sierra bullets, IMR 4350 and long seating ..... I have tried many heavier bullets and they are just never going to work. Meanwhile my 700 Long Action Mountain rifle with a light 22 inch barrel, 1:9 twist, worked well with the same 87 Grain and 100 grain loads but again poorly with 117 grain loads . I Found salvation with Sierra 110 gain Gamechangers, H4350 powder and long seating. Amazing 1/2 MOA. I know thats a completely different set of issues than the one you were investigating so nicely ..... but I thought I'd pass along my experience for anyone who is chasing 257 Roberts accuracy issues and looks at your wonderful video.
Tom great video and technical info. I had same issue on a 243 featherweight. Horrible and inconsistent accuracy would not shoot any bullet from 70 - 100 grain to a decent group. After inspection of bore lands were inconsistent as well. I ordered a #4 Shilen barrel 8” twist and sent to my gunsmith barrel cut at 24” with target crown, pillar bed stock, glass bed action and free floating barrel. Results were excellent shooting extremely well consistent sub 1/2” groups @100 yds with first load I tried with 95 grain Berger bullets! I agree winchester featherweight rifles are beautiful but I have not worked on a featherweight that is accurate out of the box! Someone down the line dropping the ball not delivering accurate rifles for customers.
Excellent series on this rifle and troubleshooting the issue. I've got a .257 Roberts built on a Mauser that looks good on the outside but under the hood whomever built it was bad. She's had vertical stringing to the tune of 13". Among the problems I've addressed and the main culprit was a loose freaking barrel. I've got it down to about 2-3 inches and fingers crossed when I get back to it this coming summer some further load development will fully resolve the stringing. On the ammo department I got lucky and the shop I found the rifle at had 8 bags of 7mm Mauser range brass and upon a closer look there was brand new Winchester brass mixed in. Bought em all and ended up with 248 new cases to size down and fire form plus hundreds of mixed brass to use over time.
Tom, I'm commenting for a second time, which is highly unusual for me. My 257 Roberts was in a Remington 700 Classic. It had been neglected. Bolt handle was rusted, the safety was so rusty as well as the trigger. Yet it still shot sub moa. Townsend Whelen said as you well know that only accurate rifles are interesting. Please send that rifle back to FN and let them make it into an interesting rifle, instead of the terrible disappointment it is.
Terrifically entertaining and informative video once again. I learned a lot from it so thanks again from Australia. Really glad I subscribed to your channel, you have a great style of presentation and I think you should be on national TV!
Everybody needs a project, and some project force you to learn...and learn you have. The good news, is you have options, from rechambering to barreling..your trip with this rife forced me to do a lot of reading, mostly about the caliber..and from my reading { I have never owned a .257 or any of the smaller calibers for that matter} It would seem a .257 is a difficult cartridge to get to shoot accurately. Again that's just from reading mostly on forums about the caliber. But, like you, I have learned a lot, and really enjoyed learning about the caliber. A great project, with great videos, and a wonderful learning opportunity. Having said that, if it were me, I would make it a 25/06 and never look back....but that's just an old guy who loves anything derived from the 30.06...God Bless and thanks for the education.
I enjoyed watching someone else figure out a mystery. I have on a Remington 7400. 270. I had a few issues to deal with but now i know. Shoots sub moa w handloads.
Tom this too bad! But I have watched many other videos featuring the FN built M70 in which the owner of the gun had amazing accuracy without doing a thing to it. I’ve also worked with my brother on his FN built M70 and it is very accurate across a wide range different loads. I think you’re correct in your investigation but I do think they would stand behind it and fix it. That would be the route I’d go, I bet you’d be happy.
Love a mystery! But who is going to pay for this great mistake! I would give FN a chance to fix it and if not it’s time for a new barrel in a 257 Robert’s!
Very interesting on the verdict. Could you not shorten the barrel 1/2" off of the chamber end and have it re-chamered in 257 roberts again? I feel like that would be a good excuse to also get a longer throat for the rifle to be able to seat the 120 grainers out further like you mentioned the fellow at the range did. Good luck this deer season!
Not that easy especially on a featherweight contour and with an extractor cut, plus most factory guns have an undercut between shoulder and threads so after "chasing" threads, you'd have a gap of about two threads.
Awe man, Tom. That's a bummer. I hope FN will work with you on this. I haven't ever had to deal with their customer service, but then I haven't had any issues, let alone something this bad with any of my FN weapons.
Hey there, my buddy has that same exact gun and i have a limited edition maple gun just like it as well! Both do the same thing! So glad you did the leg work on this. Yes this is bone head move by FN for sure! Keep us updated please.
Hey Tom, you did a great job of troubleshooting and diagnosing the problem. My first thought was that FN may have used an old, worn out reamer to make the chamber. I never considered the possibility of the chamber being off center, you may be right about that. Or it could be that they used a floating reamer to cut the chamber then just messed up cutting the throat afterwards. A chamber casting might help to sort it out. One possible solution you might consider is to rent a throating reamer just to clean up the lands. Another possible solution is to rechamber to an Improved 257, but that is another can of worms. Its a shame they messed up such a nice rifle. Good luck with it.
Wow Tom, I bought a brand new FN Win M70, in 7mm 08. It was a beautiful rifle, I just loved it. It did not shoot well. I did get a deer with it (60 yards) but the best group I got out of it was 1.25 inch off the bench. Many more times it gave me 5 inch groups. It did shoot better with 150 grain ammo. It did not like lighter bullets. They would not be on paper. For a long time, I thought it was me. I kept tinkering. I saw a used Marlin, a JM 336 in 30 30, and spontaneously bought it. It gave 1.25 groups. But it gave 1.25 groups all the time, with whatever I put in it. It is a real good off hand rifle as well. So I sold the Winchester. Problem solved!
It might be possible for a gunsmith to turn the barrel down one full thread and re-chamber it that much deeper for the same cartridge... that was P. O. Ackley's method for re-chambering rifles for his improved cartridges, if I'm not mistaken.
I have a Hawkeye borescope and have looked a a lot of factory chambers, no black swan here, it is a very clear and present problem in many factory guns. I believe because of high production, they have to use a pilot on the reamer that is much smaller than bore diameter and can cause straight throat issues, also, most production chambers are cut in two to three steps. Have you ever noticed that on a blued Remington 700 chamber the shoulder isn't blued, or the eagle talons left from cutting the belt on a magnum causing scratches on brass or extraction issues. I recently had a Win. Model 70 Classic in 7 STW in the shop at the same time I was building a custom 7 STW. Come to find out the factory Winchester chamber, though it headspaced perfectly, has a shoulder that was cut .020, yes 20 thousandths, longer than SAAMI spec.. So, factory chambers and depending on how some custom builders hold their reamers or how perfectly fit the pilot on reamer is, the chamber will have a lopsided throat/lead.
I'm in the same boat your in with a remington 700 in 7mm remington magnum accuracy finally figured out my scope rings were no good scope was sliding in the rings and turned to the right and deer season starts this Saturday for us in florida and I don't have time to fool with it anymore right now
Hello Tom, I really enjoyed your forensic theme “incl the music”, lol. I’m glad you feel you have this issue nailed down. What you said makes sense to me about the wobble of projectile entry causing variation in non repeatable seating depth measurements, and the wobble causing blow-bye causing extreme copper fowling seems plausible. Question is, can the rifling be recut to end up evenly at chamber, or is it cut on an angle not making this possible? Realizing a barrel replacement would be a costly endeavor, this might be the only solution? If this be the case, wouldn’t it sure be nice to have a new barrel cut with a bit faster twist, “if you end up here?” Good luck my friend, please keep us in the loop. God bless 😎👍
People who mistrust and assume the worst of others are often untrustworthy themselves. Once again, nice video (hunkering down near the fire during a blizzard in Bruce County Ontario)
Well, I have to have more range trips with the 7X57 F. W.. I have no borescope, and would hate to think I may have the same problem. Right now I'm glad I have no bore scope to find out. Hope you get the problem resolved.
I can't hardly wait for an update on this! I'm really curious to see how FN/Winchester will treat you if you go that route. I have an interesting story about my experience with their service when I sent in a newly purchased rifle to Missouri for warranty work.
A coworker I knew about 40 years ago, was always bragging about his .257 Roberts. I always thought about buying a .257 Roberts, but I don't see any rifle chambered in the cartridge -- even used.
11:43 in to the video. The only explaination is the chamber was reamed eccentrically to the bore axis. I suspected it earlier, but the borescope footage confirmed it.
Tom I would say that if you old closely check some of your fire formed brass you will find that the chamber is not parallel with the bore or bolt. The case head will possibly have some runout if uou check it with a dial indicator. Just another thought, happy hunting!!!
I thought the same thing. If he had a true flat surface could he stand fire formed brass in a group then even just eyeball which are leaning? Rotating the leaning ones should change the direction they lean. And I'm thinking if he ran a runout gauge he'd find the bodies offcenter and the case heads out of square. If it was my rifle, I'd replace the barrel with a quality .257 Roberts chambered highly polished and blued barrel. Or maybe someone's got a pulled .257 Roberts FN-Win barrel for sale. I can see plenty being rebarreled to more common calibers by 2nd owners.
Tom if your not going to do anything to the rifle for 3 month’s or more might as well send it in. For nothing else but so we all will know if browning will stand behind the Winchester product. But what I would do is send the barreled action to pac-nor and have them put a Mach grade barrel with a faster twist so you can shoot the heavy bullets. They can Mach the factory contour too. I had them put a 6.5x55 Swede barrel on a howa 1500 action for me. I bedded it in a Boyd’s stock and it will shoot 3/8 in. This was about ten year’s ago and it is what I take for deer every year. I never think about what it cost because I love the rifle and it is exactly what I wanted. Every time you take it to the range and shoot it and see that clover leaf you will be happy you did it. Just think of it as you bought a beautiful action and stock so you can make the rifle you always wanted. Thanks for the videos and can’t wait to see what you decide to do.be safe and live free
Remington went through a similar issue with the 1187 model shot gun. In the first year of production it was common to have a barrel with the chokes installed off center---either offset to one side or at an angle. This left a ridge at the back of the choke which was then pounded by the shot charge. Eventually it caused the choke to break in half with a section of it going out the end of the barrel. This happened to me during a sporting clays match. Suddenly I could not hit anything--even straight away targets. It was only some months later I discovered the damage. Remington would not make good on the barrel.
Also being uneven, if its been cleaned alot or oiled being a chrome moly if the individual cleaning the rifle doesnt use a bore guide then the cleaning rod can actually cause the damage you are seeing which is a high possibility given that there is no real defined start to the rifling as well. And it is usually at 6 or 12 o'clock due to how the rod bends and people use them. Worth a thought
Great video man . Congratulations on solving the mystery. You had me worried ive purchase a couple rifles from the say place u got yours that I have not shoot yet. This video has made up my mind im getting a bore scope. Now what to do with yours. Personally I'd send it back. Once they see the issues they should replace the barrel for free. The fact you have others to hunt with no need for a quick return. In the process of things they may discover something you haven't yet. I have a filling once you drop your name and channel and they see your video they will want to highlight their customer service. I know if I was a representative I would. I'd send you some free ammo too . Id go as fare as bringing it to you and be on the next video with ammo in hand. Great work. Bang up job . Man 2 weeks. I better get started. I just got back my dads muzzleloader it was put away with out being clean. After several years once I looked down. Lets just say I thought it was just a wall hanger. My smith worked magic on it. Even he was surprised.
The original 257 Roberts I bought was a m77 Ruger with tang safety. It would only shoot 115g nosler bt bullets, nothing else that I tried would group. I traded it and bought another Ruger 77 Hawkeye that shot great, then got a win m70 super grade Cabela's special. It shoots nice tight groups. So I traded the Hawkeye for a different rifle. Now I wish I hadn't since I like the Ruger 77.
I am sorry this rifle is flawed. Glad you figured it out but it is a serious flaw. I think your best option is to send it to FN. They are the best qualified to make it right. I suspect it needs a new barrel, but I am no expert. Let FN determine what needs to be done. TY MH
the only model 70 i had was from the usmc in .30-06 , from the womens unit ,it had thousands and thousands of rounds through it ,and was quite shot out. Get my barrels at numrich ,as they are the best deal.though id try a hallow base lead one in it just to see. GREAT VIDEO !!!
Tom, this is the first Model 70 I’ve ever heard of that wasn’t accurate as could be. I had one of these SC/FN 257’s and it was a 3 shots under a quarter at a 100yds, totally a dream. I’m gob-smacked about seeing a Model 70 that isn’t a tack driver, wow! I hope you’ve decided to keep it as a 257 Roberts. Take care and be well!
I will be watching this to see what FN does because I have bought hundreds of model 70’s mostly used over my 60 years of hunting and collecting and this is very concerning and mostly to see what they do! I have a friend who is a pistol collector and bought a new pistol and it had a problem just not the same as yours but they called him back and accused him of missing with it to try to not cover it under warranty and he bring a nice guy got it back and being a retired machinist fixed it himself but in doing so I will never buy a gun new or used from that brand and I am putting the word out to the hundreds of people I see about what they did to him! Give FN a chance because I am dying to see that happens my friend
The lands might not be the same height and will never ream to be even in the throat. Some barrels just dont have good lands and groove height from manufacturing.
I had issues with my model 70 in .338 Winchester. I polished the bore with polishing paper, bedded the stock and it still shot 4 inch groups. I sent it off to Ice Age and had the barreled action cryo frozen. Groups shrank to 1.1 inch. At 100.
Almost looks like a chip got wedged on one side in the free bore at the last turn or two just before the reamer was pulled out. I think it could be cleaned up by a good gunsmith - I would go that route that first. Good luck Tom, nice rifle though!
Many years ago I bought a similar model 70 XTR FWT in .243 new in box at a store closing auction. Beautiful rifle with horrible accuracy. One gunsmith had it and tried unsuccessfully to fix it. Another gunsmith I talked to told me to take the action out and remount it with very little torque on the front screw after tensioning carefully back to front. He never even saw the rifle but it fixed the problem and it has shot great for almost 40 years since. I thought for awhile you were going to find the same issue
It seems I have another issue with this one, but I will sure keep that in mind because I also have an XTR Featherweight and I have noticed that it has a pressure point in the forend of the stock. So I can see to where that could make a big difference on accuracy. Thanks for sharing that!
"Notorious online porn site" 'GUNBROKER' You're honor, Mr. Tom River is the guilty party. He caused my client to choke to death from suffocating on his own spittle during a fit of laughter. He should be given the chair!
Once a barrel has been ruined either with too deep of rifling on one side or bad chambering; it's done. In the 1970s and 1980s, I worked for John Martz Luger carbine maker from Lincoln, CA and once he had a similar issue but, since he chambered his own barrels and had all the proper tools to complete the job correctly he then measured the barrel and found out of tolerance rifling on one side of the bore near the throat. He proved his position with the maker of the barrel with pictures and the barrel maker also saw the error so they replaced the barrel free of charge. Mr. Martz did not order or purchase any more barrels from the maker and switched companies as a result.
Well, I would say that this 257 Roberts Project has been so far a success. Sure, the gun isn't where you want it to be at, but it has taught all of us more about developing sub-moa loads for a rifle than I think all of us thought we were going to learn. Anyways, it will be interesting to see what route you decide to take and how it all turns out.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving You are welcome! Your story on trusting the seller reminds me of a story I heard on Guns and Ammo TV. That show does a segment on older firearms, and one of their historic firearms experts is Garry James. He was discussing a civilian model Colt 1911 that he purchased decades ago that dated around 1915 - 1916. At the time the seller had told him that the gun was used in World War I. Well, Garry being an expert knew that the date preceded America's entry into the war, and that it was also the civilian model caused him to not really buy the story. But he liked the gun and bought it at what he considered to be a fair price. Later on he contacted Colt for one of their archive letters and it came back showing that the story the seller had told him was true. The gun that he didn't think was used in World War I actually was, but by the French Army. What happened is that the French bought in 1915 - 1916 the civilian model Colt 1911's for military use. There are no special markings on these guns and only a Colt factory letter can prove if the gun was purchased by the French military.
I'd re chamber the rifle to. 257 Robert's Ackley improved. Hopefully with the chamber being reamed it should correct some of those issues, also have them blue print the action too.
I pulled the barrel off mine and replaced it after alot of similar issues. I just borescoped the old barrel out of curiosity and I can see the lands not quite even with each other. Not as bad as yours though.
Tom send it in and then we can see just how nice FN is to their customers, yes you can turn this into some great content 👌 I bought a savage model 1920 in 250-3000 last year from an auction It was the first time ever purchasing a rifle without being able to look it over. I put all my trust into the auctions wrightup and too my joy, this rifle with factory and handloads is a lazerbeem at 100 yards and thats with iron sights.
"If you have been around so many dishonest people that you no longer trust anyone, you need to hang around with other people." This is why I love your channel.
Most of the population is not to be trusted. Honest people are hard to find.
@@robertwatson818 I'm sorry that you live in that world.
@@mikelong9638 Same world you live in. You can pretend thesis not so--but the fact of it remains. You are denying people are dishonest.
Can yu do a Kimber Walnut stock for me for a 6.5 Creedmore ,or refer me where..?
I love the .257, Use 100/ grain
Trusting the wrong people in my line of work will get you killed. I learned a long time ago to not trust anyone you dont know and be wary of those you do.
Tom, please return that rifle to FN. I am a retired lifelong machinist, manufacturing engineer, and quality manager. Your rifle's chamber is not concentric with the rifle bore. I had this myself on a Taurus 9mm. An aftermarket barrel took care of it. There is no fixing that barrel. At this point you can return it to FN and they should take care of it. If they don't, that will send a message to the rest of us longtime Model 70 owners. I had looked forward to buying one last Model 70 Super Grade after purchasing Model 70's since my first one in 225 Winchester a half century ago. But I don't want anything to do with them if that is typical of FN quality these days. It's bad enough they let one get out the door like that, but if they don't do you right, it's unforgivable.
So, you see, you have to send it back, for all of us to know. I would suggest making some tiny mark on the barrel on an inconspicuous spot concealed by the stock, then returning it. You'll know if they changed the barrel then. Otherwise they may run a throating reamer in, and then you will have a throat concentric to the bore, but not with your chamber. It will look like it is fixed, but won't be. God bless and keep up the great videos!
Glen i agree with you 100%,we will be waiting what they got to say and good luck TOM.
Set the barrel back one thread and recut the chamber. Problem solved. Great video thanks for the information.
Tom, many years ago I bought a Winchester 70xtr in .257 Roberts with a absolutely exquisite piece of wood on it. Uncommon to say the least. I was so thrilled to have found this very uncommon beauty in the rare 257 chambering, I was beside myself. What a trophy!! Until I shot the rifle. My God, this thing threw bullets from one side of the target to the other. Didn't matter what it was fed, it puked everything. I was sick!! To shorten the story I complained to Winchester about the gun and they actually took it back and rebarreled it in New Haven. This fixed the issue and the rifle has been perfect ever since. My original 257 was still a classic original. My suggestion to you is no matter what, even if you must beg, borrow, or steal to get it done, see if there is not some way to get FN to rebarrel this rifle in their facility. It's a classic, very rare and worth the effort.
One other note, this was not the first M-70 I have owned that really did not perform well. Thats why at this point, and just a personal thing, beautiful as they are, the last on my list for purchase if I want a troublefree rifle that shoots. Good luck!!
Tom. Thank you for the great video. On my new Winchester Model 70 30-06, the bore has even and symmetric grooves. However, I too had problems with accuracy with similar horizontal POI shifts. I tried all sorts of factory loads from about 8-10 manufacturers. I was about to give up on this Model 70. I found the problem was a lack of sufficient bedding of the action. I bedded the recoil lug and rear tang, and this solved my accuracy problems. Good luck and don't give up hope.
Tom, thanks for this great series. Iv’e learned a few things along the way, as well as being entertained. One thing to consider, if you send it back to the manufacturer, you will be bringing a problem to their attention & give them a chance to make it right & instill confidence in them for others thinking about buying one of their rifles. If they handle it poorly, that would also be a public service to other potential customers , & then you can decide what to do after that. At the least, send them a video or photos or some documentation that points out the defect. Just a thought & keep up the great work!
Congrats on your detective work. Did this to myself on my first threading and chambering job. I left a burr at the end of the throat and wasted some ammo before I figured it out. If your gunsmith's reamer has a little longer throat it will fix the problem. Maybe even do a Ackley chamber if he has that reamer. What FN did is start the chamber with drill bits and cleaned it up with a boring bar before using the reamer, all on a CNC machine. They do this to save reamers. But if the CNC is not homed correct it will be off center enough that the reamer can't fix it.
Good call. I'm a CNC man. Somebody got tired at work it appears to me.
Tom, I figured the patient and stubborn part out but I'm even worse. My fix for that beautiful rifle is 257AI improved with a long throat. I have thourally enjoyed the series..Will be watching for the strong finish!!!!
I just recently picked up a REM 722 in 257 Roberts. Built in 1956. Rifle is in great shape. Haven't shot it yet. I measured the barrel with a cleaning rod to the bolt face and only get 20.5". This really handicaps this round even more on velocity. From what I can see, they only made 22" and 24" barrels. I am wondering if someone cut it down, because it looked to me like the but stock was shortened then lengthened with some spacers and a recoil pad. Gonna shoot it for sure first, but now considering having a new barrel made for it at 24". Then I started thinking, why not the 257 AI? You can still find the Roberts and +p ammo at gun shows and online, but the AI, not sure that would be available. I got 70 rounds of ammo with this rifle for $350.
Mr. Tom, you are the definition of “wherewithal”. That was excellent any This ol’ knucklehead learned several things about rifle accuracy.
Looking forward to seeing Joey’s .270 WSM!
Completely agree this black swan was/is a great project! I, too, learned from this rifle. I wasn’t too familiar with lands starting unequally, either. Like you, I realized machining issues can and do occur in that area in the form of tolerances etc., but not necessarily this unequally with lands. And, very clever way to put this week’s video out. JMHO, it would be neat to see you eventually get a new barrel put on with a 1/9 twist, like the gentleman at the range. Have a great week!
Hey Tom. First video of yours I've seen, really enjoyed it. I once worked on a beautiful Parker Hale .243 that did almost the exact same thing. Cured it by doing a "one shot, then clean" routine for 20 rounds. Excellent accuracy afterwards. Thanks again for fun video.
i stopped the video at 35sec because I was laughing out loud. I love this guy! What a joy you are, Tom. Please keep doing all you do. Faithful subscriber here, I watch and enjoy. God bless, And have a great day!
Excellent detective job. Good work on the creative intro. Please continue with the 257 bob
Thank you Tom. I have just discovered your clips and can appreciate your patience concerning rifle problems. I'd say at a guess you have it shooting just fine by now and I shall be looking out for the end results.
It might be a simple process to return the barreled action to Winchester. I would expect they would likely replace the barrel with another. The repair and warranty department likely has highly skilled personnel that would be the best ones to address the the issue.
Having it sitting in your gun case will only make you more unhappy with your discovery. It also would take less time and money. You have plenty of other good rifles to use this season. 🤞👍
Gizmo, that's probably what I'm going to end up doing just to see how they handle it.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving That's what I would do.
You have nothing to lose by doing it, and if the result isn't satisfactory and your heart is still set on this Winchester, you could invest in getting it rebarreled, either in .257 Roberts or another caliber, easier if you stick to the same case head size, of course.
As it happens, the .257 Roberts has the exact same case head size as the .308 Winchester, the .30-06 and all of the cartridges derived from the venerable '06, and the parent case for the .257 Roberts, the 7x57mm Mauser.
This is by far the best video on TH-cam. Ever.
Good video! My dad had a problem similar to yours. many years ago my dad acquired a Geco in 220 Swift. The man that gave it to my dad was a Quaker preacher and he told my dad that it was not accurate. My dad being a machinist and worked on many rifles and pistols in his shop was determined to resolve the problem. After doing everything he could think of the problem was still with the rifle. He decided to recrown it thinking it was a waste of time. When he took the rifle to the range it shot one bullet on top of one another at a 100 YD. it wound up being one of the most accurate rifles he had. Never give up is a good motto for all of us!
i bought this same rifle about 25 yrs ago -model 70 xtr featherweight in 257 roberts -every time the weather changed so would point of impact-took it to a well known gunsmith and he glass bedded stock and free floated barrel-always hand loaded ammo and she shoots like a dream ever since
Thanks Tom, I've enjoyed following along on this project. Personally I know what I'd do, but it is likely not what you'd want to do. I'd have that barrel removed and replaced with and ER Shaw custom in 257 Roberts. I know it isn't the original, but I am all about getting this thing up and running. The Shaw barrel looks to be about $200 then some more for the gun smith, but after that you'll have a great shooting and great looking rifle. I guess it comes from putting together the Mausers that I have. I never looked at them as restorations, but modifications to create shooters for the field. Anyway, good luck and yes deer season is upon us. It's time to get in the woods.
Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please.
I bought a used 7X57 Mauser Model 70 Feartherweght the other day. When I picked it up, I inspected the bore. It was plenty fouled. Well, I followed a lot of tips gleaned from your recent episode cleaning your .257 Roberts. The bore is super duper shiny! I installed a rifle scope this afternoon. The Loctite is curing and then I will take it to the range and sight it in with some PPU 139 grain ammo. I finished off the cleaning with my bore snake! Boy, that took some muscle🥴. I ain't as young as I used to be. But, if the darn bore snakes were shorter, I'd have better leverage!
Great video Tom !!!! I have two Remington 257 Roberts rifles that I have labored with over the past two years and have found them to be very load sensitive. The first is a 700 Classic Long Action with a 24 inch barrel and what appears to be a shade over 1:10 twist. It has become a tack driver with 87 and 100 grain sierra bullets, IMR 4350 and long seating ..... I have tried many heavier bullets and they are just never going to work. Meanwhile my 700 Long Action Mountain rifle with a light 22 inch barrel, 1:9 twist, worked well with the same 87 Grain and 100 grain loads but again poorly with 117 grain loads . I Found salvation with Sierra 110 gain Gamechangers, H4350 powder and long seating. Amazing 1/2 MOA. I know thats a completely different set of issues than the one you were investigating so nicely ..... but I thought I'd pass along my experience for anyone who is chasing 257 Roberts accuracy issues and looks at your wonderful video.
Great presentation 👍🏾
Tom great video and technical info. I had same issue on a 243 featherweight. Horrible and inconsistent accuracy would not shoot any bullet from 70 - 100 grain to a decent group. After inspection of bore lands were inconsistent as well. I ordered a #4 Shilen barrel 8” twist and sent to my gunsmith barrel cut at 24” with target crown, pillar bed stock, glass bed action and free floating barrel. Results were excellent shooting extremely well consistent sub 1/2” groups @100 yds with first load I tried with 95 grain Berger bullets! I agree winchester featherweight rifles are beautiful but I have not worked on a featherweight that is accurate out of the box! Someone down the line dropping the ball not delivering accurate rifles for customers.
I do have to wonder how many they've made like this?
I wonder too but I suspect there is quite a bit out there with same problem.
Excellent series on this rifle and troubleshooting the issue. I've got a .257 Roberts built on a Mauser that looks good on the outside but under the hood whomever built it was bad. She's had vertical stringing to the tune of 13". Among the problems I've addressed and the main culprit was a loose freaking barrel. I've got it down to about 2-3 inches and fingers crossed when I get back to it this coming summer some further load development will fully resolve the stringing.
On the ammo department I got lucky and the shop I found the rifle at had 8 bags of 7mm Mauser range brass and upon a closer look there was brand new Winchester brass mixed in. Bought em all and ended up with 248 new cases to size down and fire form plus hundreds of mixed brass to use over time.
A loose barrel would certainly be an issue! Good luck on dialing it in this summer and thankfully you have some brass to work with.
Tom, I'm commenting for a second time, which is highly unusual for me. My 257 Roberts was in a Remington 700 Classic. It had been neglected. Bolt handle was rusted, the safety was so rusty as well as the trigger. Yet it still shot sub moa. Townsend Whelen said as you well know that only accurate rifles are interesting. Please send that rifle back to FN and let them make it into an interesting rifle, instead of the terrible disappointment it is.
Well done. That beginning of the video was fun.
Great video! You really put a lot of thought into this one. I hope you get this rifle shooting a 1/2 MOA
Lol this Halloween background music playing had me laughing
Terrifically entertaining and informative video once again. I learned a lot from it so thanks again from Australia. Really glad I subscribed to your channel, you have a great style of presentation and I think you should be on national TV!
Thanks teach eng, I really appreciate that!
Another informative video that was a pleasure to a watch.
I once saw a 7x57 featherweight. Wish I had been able to buy that one. Real slick rifle.
I agree whole heartily about the 30/06 over. 308. Also the .260 remington. I'm older now and like the lower recoil.
Everybody needs a project, and some project force you to learn...and learn you have. The good news, is you have options, from rechambering to barreling..your trip with this rife forced me to do a lot of reading, mostly about the caliber..and from my reading { I have never owned a .257 or any of the smaller calibers for that matter} It would seem a .257 is a difficult cartridge to get to shoot accurately. Again that's just from reading mostly on forums about the caliber. But, like you, I have learned a lot, and really enjoyed learning about the caliber. A great project, with great videos, and a wonderful learning opportunity. Having said that, if it were me, I would make it a 25/06 and never look back....but that's just an old guy who loves anything derived from the 30.06...God Bless and thanks for the education.
243 Winchester can be a finicky cartridge as well. Sometimes the physics is just challenging. And I too am a big fan of the 25-06.
I enjoyed watching someone else figure out a mystery. I have on a Remington 7400. 270. I had a few issues to deal with but now i know. Shoots sub moa w handloads.
Tom this too bad! But I have watched many other videos featuring the FN built M70 in which the owner of the gun had amazing accuracy without doing a thing to it. I’ve also worked with my brother on his FN built M70 and it is very accurate across a wide range different loads. I think you’re correct in your investigation but I do think they would stand behind it and fix it. That would be the route I’d go, I bet you’d be happy.
An entertaining and informative video. Thanks.
Tom this is a warranty issue. While you have the opportunity; return the rifle to FN, retain the value of the firearm.
Thanks partner. You broke it down to the stacking swivel. Good job.
Love a mystery! But who is going to pay for this great mistake! I would give FN a chance to fix it and if not it’s time for a new barrel in a 257 Robert’s!
Great video 👍🏼
Send it in. That way we can see how well their customer service is.
Very interesting on the verdict. Could you not shorten the barrel 1/2" off of the chamber end and have it re-chamered in 257 roberts again? I feel like that would be a good excuse to also get a longer throat for the rifle to be able to seat the 120 grainers out further like you mentioned the fellow at the range did. Good luck this deer season!
Not that easy especially on a featherweight contour and with an extractor cut, plus most factory guns have an undercut between shoulder and threads so after "chasing" threads, you'd have a gap of about two threads.
I think just two full threads would be enough the rechamber and get the lands centered...
This was the best yet
Awe man, Tom. That's a bummer. I hope FN will work with you on this. I haven't ever had to deal with their customer service, but then I haven't had any issues, let alone something this bad with any of my FN weapons.
Good work Sir,Hope you have good luck with your rifle
Send it in. You may get it back in time for next season!
Hey there, my buddy has that same exact gun and i have a limited edition maple gun just like it as well! Both do the same thing! So glad you did the leg work on this. Yes this is bone head move by FN for sure! Keep us updated please.
Hey Tom, you did a great job of troubleshooting and diagnosing the problem. My first thought was that FN may have used an old, worn out reamer to make the chamber. I never considered the possibility of the chamber being off center, you may be right about that. Or it could be that they used a floating reamer to cut the chamber then just messed up cutting the throat afterwards. A chamber casting might help to sort it out. One possible solution you might consider is to rent a throating reamer just to clean up the lands. Another possible solution is to rechamber to an Improved 257, but that is another can of worms. Its a shame they messed up such a nice rifle. Good luck with it.
Spot on with the chamber cast idea 👏👏
Robert
( FN fan, Sydney Australia)
I'd strongly consider replacing the barrel
Excellent show
Wow Tom, I bought a brand new FN Win M70, in 7mm 08. It was a beautiful rifle, I just loved it. It did not shoot well. I did get a deer with it (60 yards) but the best group I got out of it was 1.25 inch off the bench. Many more times it gave me 5 inch groups. It did shoot better with 150 grain ammo. It did not like lighter bullets. They would not be on paper. For a long time, I thought it was me. I kept tinkering. I saw a used Marlin, a JM 336 in 30 30, and spontaneously bought it. It gave 1.25 groups. But it gave 1.25 groups all the time, with whatever I put in it. It is a real good off hand rifle as well. So I sold the Winchester. Problem solved!
It might be possible for a gunsmith to turn the barrel down one full thread and re-chamber it that much deeper for the same cartridge... that was P. O. Ackley's method for re-chambering rifles for his improved cartridges, if I'm not mistaken.
A regular gun super sleuth you are Tom! I would send it back to the factory for a new barrel. You've got time.
Good job Matlock....
I have a Hawkeye borescope and have looked a a lot of factory chambers, no black swan here, it is a very clear and present problem in many factory guns. I believe because of high production, they have to use a pilot on the reamer that is much smaller than bore diameter and can cause straight throat issues, also, most production chambers are cut in two to three steps. Have you ever noticed that on a blued Remington 700 chamber the shoulder isn't blued, or the eagle talons left from cutting the belt on a magnum causing scratches on brass or extraction issues. I recently had a Win. Model 70 Classic in 7 STW in the shop at the same time I was building a custom 7 STW. Come to find out the factory Winchester chamber, though it headspaced perfectly, has a shoulder that was cut .020, yes 20 thousandths, longer than SAAMI spec.. So, factory chambers and depending on how some custom builders hold their reamers or how perfectly fit the pilot on reamer is, the chamber will have a lopsided throat/lead.
If it belonged to me, I'd set the barrel back by one thread and recut the chamber. That should solve the problem. An easy fix.
I'm in the same boat your in with a remington 700 in 7mm remington magnum accuracy finally figured out my scope rings were no good scope was sliding in the rings and turned to the right and deer season starts this Saturday for us in florida and I don't have time to fool with it anymore right now
This is hilarious!
What a great video
Hello Tom, I really enjoyed your forensic theme “incl the music”, lol. I’m glad you feel you have this issue nailed down. What you said makes sense to me about the wobble of projectile entry causing variation in non repeatable seating depth measurements, and the wobble causing blow-bye causing extreme copper fowling seems plausible. Question is, can the rifling be recut to end up evenly at chamber, or is it cut on an angle not making this possible? Realizing a barrel replacement would be a costly endeavor, this might be the only solution? If this be the case, wouldn’t it sure be nice to have a new barrel cut with a bit faster twist, “if you end up here?” Good luck my friend, please keep us in the loop. God bless 😎👍
People who mistrust and assume the worst of others are often untrustworthy themselves. Once again, nice video (hunkering down near the fire during a blizzard in Bruce County Ontario)
Well, I have to have more range trips with the 7X57 F. W.. I have no borescope, and would hate to think I may have the same problem. Right now I'm glad I have no bore scope to find out. Hope you get the problem resolved.
I can't hardly wait for an update on this! I'm really curious to see how FN/Winchester will treat you if you go that route. I have an interesting story about my experience with their service when I sent in a newly purchased rifle to Missouri for warranty work.
A coworker I knew about 40 years ago, was always bragging about his .257 Roberts. I always thought about buying a .257 Roberts, but I don't see any rifle chambered in the cartridge -- even used.
I have the Remington 700 classic in 257 Roberts, bought new in 83. I love it.
Anyway, thank you for your channel! You do make a positive difference to gun afficianados. Even us who have been afficinados all of our lives!
11:43 in to the video. The only explaination is the chamber was reamed eccentrically to the bore axis. I suspected it earlier, but the borescope footage confirmed it.
Tom I would say that if you old closely check some of your fire formed brass you will find that the chamber is not parallel with the bore or bolt. The case head will possibly have some runout if uou check it with a dial indicator. Just another thought, happy hunting!!!
I thought the same thing. If he had a true flat surface could he stand fire formed brass in a group then even just eyeball which are leaning? Rotating the leaning ones should change the direction they lean. And I'm thinking if he ran a runout gauge he'd find the bodies offcenter and the case heads out of square. If it was my rifle, I'd replace the barrel with a quality .257 Roberts chambered highly polished and blued barrel. Or maybe someone's got a pulled .257 Roberts FN-Win barrel for sale. I can see plenty being rebarreled to more common calibers by 2nd owners.
What! An opportunity to put on a new barrel!!!
Cool beans.
😋
Tom if your not going to do anything to the rifle for 3 month’s or more might as well send it in. For nothing else but so we all will know if browning will stand behind the Winchester product. But what I would do is send the barreled action to pac-nor and have them put a Mach grade barrel with a faster twist so you can shoot the heavy bullets. They can Mach the factory contour too. I had them put a 6.5x55 Swede barrel on a howa 1500 action for me. I bedded it in a Boyd’s stock and it will shoot 3/8 in. This was about ten year’s ago and it is what I take for deer every year. I never think about what it cost because I love the rifle and it is exactly what I wanted. Every time you take it to the range and shoot it and see that clover leaf you will be happy you did it. Just think of it as you bought a beautiful action and stock so you can make the rifle you always wanted. Thanks for the videos and can’t wait to see what you decide to do.be safe and live free
Remington went through a similar issue with the 1187 model shot gun. In the first year of production it was common to have a barrel with the chokes installed off center---either offset to one side or at an angle. This left a ridge at the back of the choke which was then pounded by the shot charge. Eventually it caused the choke to break in half with a section of it going out the end of the barrel. This happened to me during a sporting clays match. Suddenly I could not hit anything--even straight away targets. It was only some months later I discovered the damage. Remington would not make good on the barrel.
Also being uneven, if its been cleaned alot or oiled being a chrome moly if the individual cleaning the rifle doesnt use a bore guide then the cleaning rod can actually cause the damage you are seeing which is a high possibility given that there is no real defined start to the rifling as well. And it is usually at 6 or 12 o'clock due to how the rod bends and people use them. Worth a thought
Great video man . Congratulations on solving the mystery. You had me worried ive purchase a couple rifles from the say place u got yours that I have not shoot yet. This video has made up my mind im getting a bore scope. Now what to do with yours. Personally I'd send it back. Once they see the issues they should replace the barrel for free. The fact you have others to hunt with no need for a quick return. In the process of things they may discover something you haven't yet. I have a filling once you drop your name and channel and they see your video they will want to highlight their customer service. I know if I was a representative I would. I'd send you some free ammo too . Id go as fare as bringing it to you and be on the next video with ammo in hand. Great work. Bang up job . Man 2 weeks. I better get started. I just got back my dads muzzleloader it was put away with out being clean. After several years once I looked down. Lets just say I thought it was just a wall hanger. My smith worked magic on it. Even he was surprised.
The original 257 Roberts I bought was a m77 Ruger with tang safety. It would only shoot 115g nosler bt bullets, nothing else that I tried would group. I traded it and bought another Ruger 77 Hawkeye that shot great, then got a win m70 super grade Cabela's special. It shoots nice tight groups. So I traded the Hawkeye for a different rifle. Now I wish I hadn't since I like the Ruger 77.
You could have a gunsmith knock a thread off the barrel, setting the chamber back. Then cut a new .257 Roberts chamber.
I am sorry this rifle is flawed. Glad you figured it out but it is a serious flaw. I think your best option is to send it to FN. They are the best qualified to make it right. I suspect it needs a new barrel, but I am no expert. Let FN determine what needs to be done. TY MH
the only model 70 i had was from the usmc in .30-06 , from the womens unit ,it had thousands and thousands of rounds through it ,and was quite shot out. Get my barrels at numrich ,as they are the best deal.though id try a hallow base lead one in it just to see. GREAT VIDEO !!!
I learned a lot from your video. Thanks
Tom, this is the first Model 70 I’ve ever heard of that wasn’t accurate as could be. I had one of these SC/FN 257’s and it was a 3 shots under a quarter at a 100yds, totally a dream.
I’m gob-smacked about seeing a Model 70 that isn’t a tack driver, wow!
I hope you’ve decided to keep it as a 257 Roberts.
Take care and be well!
I will be watching this to see what FN does because I have bought hundreds of model 70’s mostly used over my 60 years of hunting and collecting and this is very concerning and mostly to see what they do! I have a friend who is a pistol collector and bought a new pistol and it had a problem just not the same as yours but they called him back and accused him of missing with it to try to not cover it under warranty and he bring a nice guy got it back and being a retired machinist fixed it himself but in doing so I will never buy a gun new or used from that brand and I am putting the word out to the hundreds of people I see about what they did to him! Give FN a chance because I am dying to see that happens my friend
Edward, that's probably what I'm going to do just to see how they handle it?
The lands might not be the same height and will never ream to be even in the throat. Some barrels just dont have good lands and groove height from manufacturing.
I had issues with my model 70 in .338 Winchester. I polished the bore with polishing paper, bedded the stock and it still shot 4 inch groups. I sent it off to Ice Age and had the barreled action cryo frozen. Groups shrank to 1.1 inch. At 100.
Now that is interesting! I would have never guessed that would have made that much of a difference.
Great opening scene!
Almost looks like a chip got wedged on one side in the free bore at the last turn or two just before the reamer was pulled out. I think it could be cleaned up by a good gunsmith - I would go that route that first. Good luck Tom, nice rifle though!
Man that opening scene had me rolling! LOL! So true!!!!!
I did have fun with that. And honestly it was all I could do to keep a straight face during this entire video! LOL
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving "...there was something terribly wrong with "my precious" LOL. "Nasty FN reamers and Hobbitses"
Cool explanation
Many years ago I bought a similar model 70 XTR FWT in .243 new in box at a store closing auction. Beautiful rifle with horrible accuracy. One gunsmith had it and tried unsuccessfully to fix it. Another gunsmith I talked to told me to take the action out and remount it with very little torque on the front screw after tensioning carefully back to front. He never even saw the rifle but it fixed the problem and it has shot great for almost 40 years since. I thought for awhile you were going to find the same issue
It seems I have another issue with this one, but I will sure keep that in mind because I also have an XTR Featherweight and I have noticed that it has a pressure point in the forend of the stock. So I can see to where that could make a big difference on accuracy. Thanks for sharing that!
"Notorious online porn site"
'GUNBROKER'
You're honor, Mr. Tom River is the guilty party. He caused my client to choke to death from suffocating on his own spittle during a fit of laughter. He should be given the chair!
LOL
Also as a note, if you don't want to be disappointed with your factory throat or barrel, by all means don't look in there ;-)
I really hope they take care of you . It's a beautiful rifle
Impeccable!
Once a barrel has been ruined either with too deep of rifling on one side or bad chambering; it's done. In the 1970s and 1980s, I worked for John Martz Luger carbine maker from Lincoln, CA and once he had a similar issue but, since he chambered his own barrels and had all the proper tools to complete the job correctly he then measured the barrel and found out of tolerance rifling on one side of the bore near the throat. He proved his position with the maker of the barrel with pictures and the barrel maker also saw the error so they replaced the barrel free of charge. Mr. Martz did not order or purchase any more barrels from the maker and switched companies as a result.
Well, I would say that this 257 Roberts Project has been so far a success. Sure, the gun isn't where you want it to be at, but it has taught all of us more about developing sub-moa loads for a rifle than I think all of us thought we were going to learn.
Anyways, it will be interesting to see what route you decide to take and how it all turns out.
Thanks Trapdoor, and I certainly got into more than I thought I would on this one but I sure learned more than I thought I would as well.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving You are welcome! Your story on trusting the seller reminds me of a story I heard on Guns and Ammo TV. That show does a segment on older firearms, and one of their historic firearms experts is Garry James. He was discussing a civilian model Colt 1911 that he purchased decades ago that dated around 1915 - 1916. At the time the seller had told him that the gun was used in World War I. Well, Garry being an expert knew that the date preceded America's entry into the war, and that it was also the civilian model caused him to not really buy the story. But he liked the gun and bought it at what he considered to be a fair price. Later on he contacted Colt for one of their archive letters and it came back showing that the story the seller had told him was true. The gun that he didn't think was used in World War I actually was, but by the French Army. What happened is that the French bought in 1915 - 1916 the civilian model Colt 1911's for military use. There are no special markings on these guns and only a Colt factory letter can prove if the gun was purchased by the French military.
There's a lot of really good barrel makers out there who'll cut any profile you want.
I'd re chamber the rifle to. 257 Robert's Ackley improved. Hopefully with the chamber being reamed it should correct some of those issues, also have them blue print the action too.
I pulled the barrel off mine and replaced it after alot of similar issues. I just borescoped the old barrel out of curiosity and I can see the lands not quite even with each other. Not as bad as yours though.
Get it fixed Tom! Get it fixed!!
Great video
Thanks!
I bought one the same as yours same caliber as well. It never shot any better than yours brand new. Beautiful rifle but I had no confidence in it
Tom send it in and then we can see just how nice FN is to their customers, yes you can turn this into some great content 👌
I bought a savage model 1920 in 250-3000 last year from an auction
It was the first time ever purchasing a rifle without being able to look it over.
I put all my trust into the auctions wrightup and too my joy, this rifle with factory and handloads is a lazerbeem at 100 yards and thats with iron sights.