1885 Project: Complete New Barrel Break In
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Does breaking in a new barrel matter? Yes, and I'm going to prove it.
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Teslong Borescope (more advanced models are available): amzn.to/3MGy9UC
Hoppe's #9 Cleaning Solvent (quart bottle): amzn.to/3L45WFY - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
My understanding is that "breaking in" a barrel just expedites the process that would happen by shooting x number of rounds.
On an 1885 of mine, I had to open up the barrel channel of the forearm some,as the hanger does flex a little. After opening up the channel, the rifle shot noticeably better.
So glad I clicked in this video! That first quote about tradition is now one of my favorites.
Your right Tom those last 2 shits are either the bedding or action screws after it got hot! Great video! Enjoyed how you showed how you break in the new rifles you get! In my short 60+ years of hunting and reloading as well as collecting rifles and I always learn something better or new on rifles as the years go by!
Thanks Edward, and the reason I enjoy this stuff so much is because I keep learning new stuff myself. I was even surprised at the difference in this rifle after cleaning.
Good on ya, glad to see its actually shooting and your BP is calming down, personally I think with a few more rounds it will do better, and I hope that stringing on the fourth and fifth shot was indeed the barrel touching
I hope it was just the stock as well!
My most accurate rifles have never had a break In
Sergeant DWZ, I don't doubt that a bit and I don't think all rifles need a break in. But I think it makes a world of difference for those that do need it?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I'm going to give it a try on my next new rifle to see if I notice anything.
@@sergeantdwz5783You’ll notice it’s cleaner 👍
@@TomRiverSimpleLivingBullets zipping down the bore do the same exact thing. Smokeless was invented for a reason. Put 40 rounds through it. They’ll speed up and tighten up. I shoot F Class and never broke in a single barrel to date.
Grandpa was an armorer? in the Marines in the early 50’s. Told me when I was 13 (60 years ago) getting a new rifle what he learned about breaking in a new barrel. It was- clean, lube, shoot. 10-12 shots same order. Said he was positive it made a difference. I’ve always done that and have ended up with excellent results.
I suspect he was right! I do it differently but we're still accomplishing the same thing.
It’s like you knew I was gonna be researching barrel break ins today. Impeccable timing and great video.
I’ve never done a proper break in but I’m planning on getting a “cheaper” 243 here soon for varminting and am definitely doing a break-in to give the best groups possible with reloads, you just sold me on the process not only with the results but the in depth reasoning behind it
If the "cheaper" rifle has a hammer forged barrel, then break-in may be of use. If you intend to use JB or Iosso, make sure you use it smartly by wetting the bore with KROIL or FREE-ALL first. Don't use a bore paste in a dry barrel
Thank you Tom. I sure am glad that rifle started tightening up. I appreciate seeing your lengthy process. I just finished a break in on a CVA .308 as per their recommendations. (1 shot and clean for 5… then 10 and clean until 50rds) Now I’ll need to learn the barrel because I’m not sure I’m happy with it yet. Can’t wait for more videos. Take good care!
JB definitely ain't gonna hurt that barrel, if she's going back, I agree with not doing it. . Nice looking rifle.
Thanks Kent. It appears this one might end up shooting as good as it looks?
Personally I break in all my new barrels, I use an abbreviated procedure, 3 shots cleaning between each, two 5 shot strings cleaning between each and a 10 round string to finish. I return home, clean with Patch Out and bore scope the barrel. Most times I will see a nice, burnished layer of copper on the lands and I know I'm ready to go. Some people say it's not necessary but IMHO it doesn't hurt and all my rifles shoot very sub-moa so it works for me. The one rifle I think it didn't need it was a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster, that bore looked like it was lapped and POLISHED from the factory. I still broke it in but to this day at 100 yards it will cloverleaf 5 rounds of factory Hornady 250's into one ragged hole.
That’s an honest overview-well appreciated in this day and age!
Tom,
Thanks for the entertainment. I have a stable full of sub MOA rifles. I have never done a barrel break in...never. And I am extremely happy with the way these rifles shoot! I recently bought a 6.5 Creedmoor Model 70 Featherweight, and as usual I did not do any break in. It consistently shoots sub MOA with numerous different bullets and loads. In my opinion you are a bit OCD. But that's okay. As with many things in life, the "need" is mostly psychological in my experience. But keep up the great entertainment. Love your videos. Even if I don't agree it was fun to watch.
I think it depends on what method was used to make the barrels rifling. I found that with cold hammer forged barrels, you wont find burrs and break in would not be needed
Yep, exactly.
🎵Shoot so good, come on baby make it shoot so good, sometimes precision don't feel like it should. Baby.........Shoot so good. 🎶
My rifles always shoot tighter groups after I fireformed the brass in the particular chamber that was used. Just trim the cartridge overall length, camera inside and out, and rub thoroughly the inside of the case neck with q tips to eliminate the case lube, and reprime the case.
Glad to see the new rifle is beginning to please your expectations. That break in seemed to work very well. On that last group when your first 3 shots touched I almost shouted out in excitement. Thanks for a great video.
Hi Tom.
No doubt, you're familiar with "GunBlue490", a fellow firearm TH-cam'er, and his take on this break-in business.
My understanding of his point of view, is that break-in's were useful when barrels were made with the rifling cut in with machine tools--after the bore was drilled.
Tool marks and gouges filled in with the first few shots of copper jacket were like potholes filled with asphalt to smooth the surface
The are no longer necessary in the age of CHF barrels, that he says are glassy-smooth from the beginning.
I have a new rifle with an FN made CHF barrel not yet fired.
Not sure what to do.
Your thoughts?
Tom is likely stuck in his ways and would argue against logic. Not hating, but this whole 'break in' thing is nuts. Most people are poor shooters and only ever shoot 3-5 round handpicked groups to justify their process. If a modern manufactured barrel is visually burred or damaged or has pitting, it's defective. Thinking that polishing a barrel by hand with abrasives is more effective than shooting a 50k chamber pressure projectile down the bore in removing any remaining detritus or rifling aberrations is goofy. If a barrel is out of spec, it's out of spec.
Good information. Thanks for taking us through the process.
I'm right there with you using JB's , I haven't seen a factory rifle yet that didn't shoot better after using it
I just recently purchased an 1885 in .357mag and it has been very finicky on ammo. My best shooting load so far is 210gr .35 Remington cast bullets over 2400 powder
You might try a lighter weight bullet The twist maybe too slow for that big heavy bullet
Thanks very much I will take this to heart!
I'm glad it's shooting well. I'm not sure that breaking a barrel in is necessary, I've done it both ways, and for me, it didn't seem to matter much
One of the reasons to do this is to get to know your barrel. If it was unessesary you will find out.
All you spend is time and ammo.
And that happens to be some of my favourite things to do 😅👍
Thank you for your sharing of experience and observations! Good job on your demonstration of actual visible changes in the bore.
Thanks Ben!
Thanks again Tom, I always learn something from your experiences and excellent videos.
In my opinion, if the barrel is hammer forged, it doesn't need broken in, if it's a broached barrel it should be, but not to the extent we hear alot of.
I've found that just being out of level will move your groups horizontal just a little. Different seating depth will usually improve horizontal, also.
Amazing video as always, sir! Very informative and educational. I noticed that you’re having a little trouble with the borescope footage. I’d recommend turning on the phone’s screen recording function when you’re using the borescope’s camera app! That way it’ll be better image quality and you don’t even have to point a camera at the phone’s screen! Hope this information is helpful!
As soon as you take the sticker off the barrel it'll shoot great. LOL
Tom , most shooters use 140 gr thru the Creedmoor. Ive have two rifles in this caliber. Try ELD match 120 g sometime. I'd like to see if your groups are better or worse. I understand these aren't hunting bullets but try one box sometime. Thanks for sharing.
I wish this guy was my neighbor or family id be learning everything he knows
Tommy, try bore tech products. They are unbelievably good at cleaning up barrels.
I don’t believe that soft brass from a bullet is capable of flattening, removing, or burnishing hardened barrel steel. In my mind, a rough barrel only becomes more smooth by copper fouling filling in any potential dips in the steel. Hand lapping will remove imperfections in the steel however.
I do not believe removing all of the copper from a barrel is a good thing.
It would have been more interesting to see what the shot pattern was for all rounds fired, rather than adjusting the scope between groups.
It would have, but with that said I never moved the scope between the 3rd and the 5th one. So all of the movement on those 3 groups is just the result of changes in point of impact and the majority of the movement appears to be in elevation.
I’ve never did a break in till recently on my Christensen Mesa in 2021
It was shooting around a inch at first now 2023 the barrel is clean in 5-7 patches and shoots the same bullet 1/2 moa now cold bore. 3 shots .
I’ve shot over 60 chitals and about 5 mouflon and some goats so far with it.
Did the break in work I’m not sure !
But I wanna think it did!
I’ll probably do it on my next rifle too
David, I have to ask where are you hunting? Those are critters that aren't found just anywhere.
Maui, we don’t have bags limits , they’re considered invasive s .
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving the rifle is chambered in 6.5 cm, I think my old 308 knocked them down harder. I like the 270 the best but the one I had wasn’t very accurate. I don’t shoot game past 300 yards.
I like your content
Thanks Tom , I do it cant hurt.
I am beginning to lean towards, it depends on how the barrel was made. Hand lapped and forged barrels probably no need. Others, breaking in is possibly helpful.
Great video!
I've never done that. Accuracy had a never been a problem.
I’d be looking at error from an inconsistent butt to shoulder and stockweld but we would all know for sure if you had called your shots to discern call/strike corollary.
Charles all of the shots on that 5th group felt great and broke with the crosshairs sitting perfect on the target. I'm confident the 2 flyers where the rifle and the forend but I'm not exactly sure what was going on there? I removed the forend and there was some contact but really close to where the barrel meets the action which should have affected it that much. I'm just going to have to shoot it some more and see what happens.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving. Well, for sure then the forearm would be more suspect than your marksmanship. Hope you get a handle on it. I’d like to see you hit your mark with this rifle.
Great info here Tom. Always learn or relearn something from your videos.
Thanks Tod!
Mostly because of the new Barrel making processes, even a broached barrel. If they didn't test fire the barrel you make sure you run some patches through it. Fire 20 rounds. Clean the rifle. That's it, you're ready to go you fire a couple of falling shots and you do a test. The first rifle I ever use I made sure it was clean I loaded up the ammo for it I fired nine shots to sight it in and fired a 20 round group into a center to Center spread at a hundred yards of .049 inches in 1979 Ruger Model 77 7 mm Magnum. Every time I fired a group, with that rifle for the next several years, it was a 20 round group, and they all fired, whether that they had Sierra bullets or Hornady 140 grain Spire point, a point 33-inch group edge to edge. That is still a .0 49-inch group center-to-center. I sold that rifle for $200 more money than the guy could have bought a brand new rifle for. And I had every group I had ever fired out of that rifle. Every Target.
There is no such thing as copper fouling. The reason they went to a cupro-nickel bullet jacket is because 10 that they used up until about World War 1 was horrible that following a barrel. Ever since they went to cupro-nickel jackets, there has never been a reason to clean metal fouling out of a barrel. You do have to clean lead fouling out of a barrel, but I've only fired lead out of a pistol for decades. And that was only specific loads of a very hard test let out of my 44 Magnum super Blackhawks. Completely different story.
Single-shot rifles will string like that. Mostly because of the way that the barrel shoulder fits against the receiver. That has to be a supremely close fit. I've seen a lot of work done with Ruger number ones. And although they generally shoot pretty good, they can be persnickety.
Thanks tom, another great video!
Fantastic content!! For many years, I took my rifles to a gunsmith annually who "accurized" them. He would ensure copper fouling was removed from the barrel, properly torque action screws and re-zero if necessary. If I bought a new rifle, I took it to him, first. This guy was a former marine sniper and he forgot more about rifle accuracy than most people will ever know. He had my BAR Mk II safari tuned to the point that it was more accurate than most bolt action rifles. He would follow many of the same steps discussed in this video.
I had a brand new Browning A Bolt II Medallion with the BOSS system in 300 Win Mag in the mid 1990's that couldn't shoot 3 shot groups smaller than 3" at 100 yards using everything from factory ammo to handloads after trying all of the bullet weights available. I lapped the barrel with Flitz metal polish about 30 plus passes and the groups afterwards were sub MOA with handloads. FYI, the BOSS system was a joke! Bore scopes were not available back then, so I don't know how bad the barrel was. You could literally feel it getting smoother with each pass. I was worried that it would end up making the barrel worn out, but it fixed whatever issue was causing me problems.
I should have noted that if you use any abrasives to lap a barrel you need to make sure that you need to remove all of the compound. If any gets left in the bore you may end up with a STUCK CASE that you cannot remove! If you think that you cleaned it good enough after using a lapping compound, clean it three more times!
I disagree I have a Browning 30/06 with BoSS system. Pick ur ammunition adjust the brake till you shoot sub MOA write down ur settings. Grab another ammo go through adjustment again write it down and so on. Now you can have sub MOA with the ammo of ur choice. Only negative this thing is LOUD!
Isn’t JB just jewelers rouge? Very very fine polishing compound
Thank you sir for taking stupid out if this "discussion "! For an example and I'm talking mostly hunting rifles.... the manufacturer guarantees sub MOA , take it out of the box and fires the manufacturers guarantee. You not going to get better. Good clean and ready to go again! If not I think you discussed a no problem break in process. Thank you!
Ive had my 1885 in .243 for about 25 years now, i dont remember if the barrel needed broken in or not. It still shoots 1/2" groups with 100gr sierra SBs.
Everything but SIMPLE my friend........! Lol
New to the channel. Have you inspected any hammer forged barrels? Been shooting them since the early 1990s almost exclusively. They have all been extremely accurate.
without break i would stick to a flat based bullets
I have never felt the need to do any special process to break in a barrel. The best way to break in a rifle is to shoot it. Take it out, enjoy it after 60-100 rounds through it, clean it, and it should be broken in.
Sometimes we know to much. It would have been interesting to just shot 20 rounds though it first and see how much it improved
I believe you will be able to find a great handload for that barrel. Shows a lot of promise. At what point will you allow the barrel to foul for best accuracy?
I can hardly make anything out with that bore scope.
I can't say that I do a "break-in." I clean the barrel before the first shot is made, and after the first three or so rounds are fired. After that, it is a case by case situation on when I clean them again. I'll always respect everyone's opinion on what they prefer. I will say, though, I haven't ever had a bad shooting rifle, and out of all of the TH-cam videos I have watched, none of them have convinced me to change my methods. Every gun I have bought. Has tightened up the groups as more rounds were fired, even the ones that I have taken right from a store and shot a twenty round box of ammo through before ever running a patch down the barrel, in my younger days.
That is a production run firearm so you are going to have barrel incursions bad rifling bad crowns bad some of everything. If you are just not satisfied then get rid of it and have someone build you a match grade rifle. I used to lament over new rifles when they weren't up to my standards so I re barrel them with Hart or Kreiger barrels and my accuracy problems are for naught...
Another very good follow up video👍🏻👍🏻
I would like to know, though, on those last five shots that you fired, wondering about the last two flyers out to the right. Wondering if you pulled off a little or what might’ve caused them. That was shot number four and five
As for hunting. Don’t get to excited. About breaking in but. It critical if a barrel. Gets water in it it’s very important to clean and lubricate over the life of your rifle. Which will mostly outlive. Most hunters especially if they have more than one rifle It’s very important to have consistently in your. Cleaning outside of barrel and inside if you live in damp climate. Also guns tend to condensate when the guns. Are taken from cold outside into a warm house. Condensation can turn to rust on steel. If neglected just my thoughts Clean and lubricate is the secrete
And your thoughts are spot on Dominic. I live in a very humid environment and I have to make sure I wipe my rifles down after every use. And I'll explain later on about adding a light coat of oil to the bore before long term storage.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Great.
Why would your point of impact change so much if the break in was doing something? Did you adjust the eliv./wind. On the scope?
Think you correct, most of the folks saying you don't need break in are shooting match barrels.
Julio, I made one scope adjustment after the 2 shot group and I didn't make any adjusts from the 3 shot group to the 5 shot. And I was wondering about the change in the point of impact myself. It seems everything stayed about the same left to right from the 3 shot group to the 5 shot but there were a lot of changes vertically. My guess is velocity changes?
Definitely velocity change great job Tom. Good info in this video and I suspect floating the barrel a bit more will definitely make it a shooter
The thickness of a piece of paper was NOT enough clearance to maintain a floated barrel on my 1885.
The crown would be my concern
That’s the last thing the bullet sees
For 30 years I did what was deemed a proper break in on every new factory and custom rifle regardless of barrel make from Hart, Shilen, Broughton, Lilja, Pac-Nor, to Obermeyer, Krieger, Bartlein, Brux, Benchmark and I never had anything to compare to since I followed the same procedure. In the last 2 years I decided to stop barrel break in since so many barrel makers and gun builders said they never bothered with it. I did not do any break in with my new 308 with a factory Tikka barrel, my Hart barreled 7mmPRC, or my Lilja barreled 6.5PRC. I will have that 308 Tikka back soon with a Brux barrel. My 6.5-284 Norma ships from builder tomorrow. It has a Brux barrel. In my experience, barrel break in didn't change anything compared to my 3 rifles mentioned that I've already put over 20 to 30 rounds through. I won't do break in anymore. For me, turned out to be a waste of a LOT of time, solvent, patches, and brushes.
I just shot the 6.5PRC this past week at 560 yards, the full length of a wheat field. It's the longest distance I have at my dad's property. I used factory Nosler 140 ballistic tip ammo. Dialed my scope 11 MOA, did not hold for wind, and shot two 3" 5 shot groups. Prior to that I had one box of Hornady ELD-X ammo through it (20 rounds), then cleaned to bare metal. Barrel cooled for an hour while I shot the other rifles, then I shot those Nosler bullets
I have what appears to be the same borescope you have - Teslong flexible. I attach mine to my laptop for larger picture
If the primary issue for break-in is new chamber burrs at the throat area where the lands begin, do what I do, clean every rifle before you ever shoot it. Unfortunately, production rifle manufacturers don't do it. My custom builders tell me they do and I borescope them before I do. If there's anything in the bore that looks like it could clean out, I do it
Out of the 2 types of ammunition. What one shot better?
Never understood spending big money on a rifle and then putting a POS scope on it. Use a bore guide, it will keep the solvent out of your action and support the rod as it travels down the barrel.
Michael I had the exact same thought on the bore guide and even used it, once. The problem was my cleaning rod wasn't long enough for both this 28 inch barrel and the bore guide. I had to unscrew the rod, pull it out, remove the bore guide, and then put the rod back in and screw it to the brush and push the brush out. The brush was to tight for me to back it out to start with.
What's with the 40" barrel?
Do copper bullets slide better on a copper plated barrel or on a bare steel barrel?
Mike my understanding is they slide better on steel.
Where in the heck you been
Broached and button rifling - break in
Hammer forged - no break in (clean after 20-40 rounds depending on calibre)
Gonna float the barrel a bit better?
I'm going to verify the loads we've already shot this weekend. If they repeat I'm going to leave it alone for now. If they don't I'll be opening up that barrel channel.
And after all that initial disappointment with the barrel you ended up with a firearm that can produce sub .5 MOA 3 shot groups.
I consider the Winchester hunting ammo as just ok for shooting groups. Some H4350 if you can get some and better bullets will tell the tale.
.... Where's my popcorn
LOL
I got a 7mm mag i need to send you. Maybe you can work some magic on it.
The ceedmore cartridge never impressed me if you want a 6.5 caliber cartridge get a 6.5x55 swed it will do anything a creedmore will do and do it more accurately I have killed a lot of deer and coyotes out to 400 yards with a 6.5x55 which I built on a 98 Turkish Mauser action and used a Swedish military carbine barrel that is only 177/8 long
I knew an old shooter one time that said the best thing you can do is throw that bore scope away! Clean it and shoot it! 😂
take 5 of those guns shoot one in your preferred way shoot the rest in some other manner, and repeat the test 3 times, a total test of 15 rifles will prove it really doesn't matter
What brand of cleaning rod & tips do you have?
Zach, that was a pro shot rod. My favorite cleaning rod is a Dewey's but I keep this rod out in the shop and if I'm going to the range I carry it. It's a lot less expensive than a Dewey's so I don't have to worry as much about bending it and it still does a great job. Plus my local gun shop carries these.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thank you! Enjoy the content keep up the great work
What cal sir???
6.5 Creedmoor
Same exact rifle with my hand loads will put 5 shots in your thumbnail at 100 yds
Brent, this one is getting there quick.
Copper fouling is a myth
SQUIRREL ! I agree.
Wrong.
Put the dam bore scope away and shoot it son.. Drive the gun
hummm...most all I have heard, break in in not needed, and I have never done it to any of my rifles...just saying
Ralph, that's why I left it like I did. This is one of those things that I don't think there is a definitive answer? But like I said you saw where it started and where it ended.
That rifle is a piece of junk Tom