This Cartridge Deserves A Second Chance - Season 2: Episode 39
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer listener questions about copper bullets, eating the animals you hunt, and which cartridges deserve a second chance.
00:00 Intro
02:04 Will copper bullets be the only option in the future?
07:31 What is the one rifle Ron swears by for most North American game?
10:39 What is the point of hunting animals if you aren't going to eat them?
16:49 30-06 vs 9.3x62 for driven boar
19:34 Which caliber is the hardest to produce?
22:24 What cartridge should get a second chance?
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I'm 78 yrs. Old. My first rifle was 30-06 and I still shoot a 30-06 w/ 180 gr. Rem . Works well .
I'm a young buck (63). I'll stick to my new fangled 7mm Remington Magnum. 😉
The old 30-06 will do it all for me I have researched it from all angles and it it is a great cartridge just learn your gun and practice and know your gun
Ron, the 280 Remington deserves a second chance.
280 is my favorite cartridge.
@@gregwhite6334also the 7 mm rem express.
Thanks for a bang up job answering questions on why people hunt. You did sportsmen all over proud.
257 Roberts needs a 2nd chance, its an amazing round
Best deer cartridge hands down
I kept telling Ron through the screen .257 Roberts!!!
Yes it is. Called perfect deer round in it's day
I prefer it’s parent cartridge, 7x57
My first deer rifle. My dad got it for me. I no longer have it. It was too hard to find ammo for and we didn’t reload
35 Remington needs a reboot! It thumps better than 30-30 and makes bigger holes. But it’s not a 45-70. It’s just right!
I like my 500 SW
That would be a good one. Plus an add on to your idea would be what if they could do a 35 rem +p. They do it with 45/70 and other old cartridges, and also considering modern rifles taking higher pressures I think that would be something neat.
The numbers show that the energy of 30-30 in 170grn vs 200 grn 35 rem even out at 50 yards (in factory loads) and from then on the 30-30 holds more energy. At the muzzle there's under 100 ft lbs difference of energy between the two. The numbers and trajectory favor the 30-30. A slightly bigger hole isn't enough difference to make a difference. The argument could be made that hand loading the 35 really makes its potential shine.... but the same can be said for the 30-30.
I learned recently that my uncle has one of those - maybe I'll get a chance to try shooting it sometime over the summer.
@@plumbbobslim9313 you mean like a 358 Winchester?
Ive got a lot of respect for this guy on so many levels. Keep doing what you're doing Ron.
280 Remington? 6mm Remington?
6mm rem is the premier coyote cartridge of all time 70-80 gr bullets sent at 22-250 speeds
A bad ass caliber,6 mm mag.
I would love to see any of the WSM’s get a second chance. Primarily the 270 and the 325 though.
Love my .3006 😊
I'd give a second chance to the .257 Roberts. Not many guns are chambered in .25 anymore. IMHO a great deer caliber.
It's a shame the 25's are on their way out. 250 Sav, 257 Rob are all but gone. The 257 Wby, small little following, just like the 25-06. The 25 WSSM never seemed to get out of the gate. Don't forget the 25-20 or 25-30. All great little numbers, that punch well above their weight class. Sadly the quarter bores on it's way out.
@@jk-kr8jt .357 maximum and 414 super mag are good with hard cast out to 75 yds or so...
@@jk-kr8jt maybe, maybe not. I'm not giving up on my quarter 06
It likes the Ackley treatment pretty well, too.
@@jk-kr8jt Quarterbore is having a resurgence in precision rifles with the new Berger 135gr.
.25x47 Lapua and .25 Creedmoor are very impressive.
.25 WSSM is the most interesting of all the WSSMs, especially if you chamber for 2.500" COL with these long VLDs.
Great episode Ron. Thank you! The .257 Robert’s is a wonderful cartridge for game up to white tails.
It’s amazing how those old ballistic pioneers (like Ned Robert’s, Whelen, Kilburn, etc) did so much with the primitive tools they had back in the day.
I like the new cartridges, but I truly admire and respect all the great old classic cartridges.
The one cartridge that will never need a 2nd chance.. . 30/06... 😉
You need a 30.06 from a hundred year-old rifle to take out a hostile enemy at 200YDS.
The caliber by which all others are measured. Cool then. Cool now. That being said, I no longer own a 30.06, and I can't even say why, which is a great reason to go out and get one
That is true.
Absolutely correct amen 🙏 brother!
one of the best
I would love to see the 35s make a comeback. Starting with 358win 35 Whelan.
I carry a 350 Rem Mag. I love the 35s!
Agree, it's a shame the 358 win. is not more popular. It's perfect for most hunting, and the 308 case is always around. And it will kill anything in N. America.
you can use a 35 in Mississippi , black powder season
how are the BCs? maybe a 338 PRC, or 350 PRC...?
358win and 35Whelen are awesome we use both. BC doesn’t make any difference in our typ of moose hunting here in the Nordic countries (
Thanks for the great show as always, Ron. 2nd chance cartridges sounds like a fantastic subject for an entire episode. Second chance rifle models, as well.
I have a buddy that has a Long Ranger in 243. It shoots 1/2”. Very impressed by those LR rifles from Henry.
Thanks Ron my pick was the 6mm Remington since that is what I started out with for deer. My Uncle sold that gun to my father for me to deer hunt with. He built the gun for ground hog hunting in TN. It is a Mauser 98 action and he had hand carved the stock himself. I'm kind of partial to that gun and the caliber. Thanks again.
The 25 caliber cartridge is a much more effective hunting cartridge for deer sized game than the 6mm and specially with the casings and powders and bullets and barrels to day that can be made for your old rifles or new ones in 25 caliber and actions also.kimber made a nice little rifle in 257 Roberts that will shoot + P loades
Their trying to get rid of the American people and replace us with illegal immagrants.
I agree with you 100%. The 6mm Remington is the best deer rifle/ cartridge out there. It is the same case as the 7x57 Mauser and 257 Roberts, necked down to 6mm. It is my preference over the 243 Winchester. Same bullet, but the 6mm Rem. can push it faster than the 243 Win. My 6mm is an old Remington 700 BDL from the 1960's and still shoots sub MOA. I've taken whitetail, mule deer, antelope and even a couple of wild boar with this rifle, not to mention the thousands of whistle pigs! It is a real pity that no one currently chambers for the 6mm Remington.
@@steveschott645 It is a pity that is is not chambered for. My local gun store has three Ruger Americans in three different cartridges - the 7mm-08, 308, and 243. It'd be really nice if Ruger would chamber one in the 6mm Remington cartridge.
.250-3000. A forgotten winner. With newer powder, bullets, & rifles I think this one could be resurrected. Short and fast enough without recoil.
I've always thought that the 250 Ackley improved was a superb cartridge betrayed by the fact that most of the barrels in 25 caliber were too slow twist for heavier bullets
Friend, I definitely agree with you, this Savage classic is too good to die!
The Charles Newton cartridges were ahead of their time! With modern powders, bullets and rifles, I'm sure plenty of shooters would appreciate it's capabilities! Always wished I had grabbed one of the little 99s with the straight stock and Schnabel forehead! 20/20 hindsight! Blsgs, gg
@@Gerald-do9ygI have the Savage Model 99G (take down model) in .30-30 from 1937. Love that old rifle…super nice to grab for quick walk in the woods. Light and handy.
@@j.kellywilkerson540 Lucky you friend! Passed on one of those back in the day also, when I was young and dumb and there was no internet driving the prices up! Enjoy that fine rifle, Blsgs, gg
.35 Remington. Anyone who has seen its work knows it’s virtues.
I'm partial to the 25/06 myself...
👍
Hahaha laughing as i destroy all 2506 with my 257 weatherby
@@MrJtin69 I love it for coyotes and it’s pretty hard on pigs too
@@MrJtin69except for the cost when you try to buy some.
Even though I am old I love the new cartridges. I own 204 Ruger, 223, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM and 260 Rem. But I especially enjoy shooting my 220 Swift, crazy fast and accurate! Goes all the way back to 1935, hard to find ammo but can still get brass.
They are all great cartridges
A mate of mine shot a .243 shell with his .260 at 250yard bang right through the middle
Cherish that old 220 Swift Randall! I’d love to own one.
I have a ‘80s vintage Steyr SL in .222 REM Mag. Great old cartridge and a beautiful rifle. I’d love it even more in .220 Swift!
35 Remington, great hunting caliber needs to come back! Amazing deer woods caliber! We need the availability of this caliber to come back ASAP!
15:16 Great job Ron! I teach hunter’s education and teaching kids the difference between non-hunters and anti-hunters is part of my job. Your excellent and thorough answer to this question demonstrates the winsome and thoughtful response needed when answering critics of hunting whether they be the “non” or “anti” variety.
Thanks!
I strongly believe that if you do not eat what you kill or provide that animal to someone who will, you should not be allowed to hunt that animal. Not only is it a waste, but it is unethical. I feel the same about people that leave large portions of uneaten farm raised meat on their plate; a animal had to die for you to pick at the meat on your plate. I love to hunt and enjoy preparing delicious as well as nutritious meals from wild game. It was a staple in my childhood home just as it is today. Spomer did a good job of avoiding the issue.
George, I disapprove of people wasting half the food on their plates, too! Drives me nuts. Ditto shooting watermelons, etc. As a gardener, I understand the significant efforts and materials required to produce food. I'd rather a hunter abandon a carcass in the field than in the kitchen because in the field said animal feeds eagles, chickadees, foxes, coyotes, wolves... Nothing is wasted in Nature, but when humans throw food into "the trash," it is ensconced in plastic and buried in some "landfill" where it nourishes at best bacteria only. As for never shooting an animal some human does not eat, consider farmer Schmidt whose chicken flock was destroyed in one night by a badger that I trapped at the barn door the next night. No one ate it. The cougar that rampaged through a flock of sheep, killing a dozen before eating just one. How about an infestation of ground squirrels leveling an alfalfa field, skunks under the porch, bats in the attic... Clearly there are reasons other than eating to justify killing some animals. But I think I get your point: wanton, senseless killing as glorified target shooting. That is not sport hunting, not conservation hunting, not ethical, no legal, not part of the North American Model of Conservation, and not condoned by true sportsmen. (Sport hunting, by the way, does not mean frivolous pursuit or some silly game. It means the opposite of market hunting and poaching. Sport as in rules, limitations, boundaries, ethical conduct. We live largely off the game we shoot and vegetables we grow, too, George, but I've a hunch you turn yours into more delicious meals than I do mine. I'm more of a "heat it and eat it" kind of cook. Call me when dinner's ready!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors-Podcast thanks and very well said. I just have met too many that only hunt to pull the trigger. In the long run that will hurt this tradition the most.
@@georgeclark6629 Yes it's unfortunate that we have "slobs," irresponsible shooters and even vandals with firearms and hunting licenses (or maybe not the licenses.) But they are in every aspect of life. By and large I've found hunters operating with good ethics, many with impeccable ethics. Best we can do is weed out the weeds and emphasize proper behavior. Sport hunters have a strong tradition of conservation and highly ethical use of Nature's abundance. We can take great pride in having stopped the slaughter and reinvigorated North American wildlife. More whitetails, elk, turkeys, geese, cougars, wolves, coyotes, pronghorns and much more than existed in 1910. And this in the face of ever decreasing habitat. It's remarkable what we've done despite lawbreakers in our ranks.
My Winchester 94a will easily shoot moa groups at 150 yards…307 is an amazing round…I was shocked at that old lever gun performance!..amazing rifle!
The 338 Federal needs a second chance.
I have a 33806 AI. Killed everything except the four sheep. Easy recoil, extremely accurate usually about fifteen FPS behind the win mag. Great round.
338 win mag is hard to find around me.. and I love mine.. but shells are expensive
Can’t finds guns or ammo but I bought set of dies several years ago? And never found a rifle and now no ammo? Just like my 6.5 Remington magnum ? No ammo available
My second chance cartridge would be the .358 Winchester. I think the Browning lever rifle may still be available is this fine old round.
That is a good one.
Had a 99 savage in 358. I'm sorry I sold it.
Yes, I’ve used a browning lever rifle in 358 Winchester it is an excellent cartridge
The 358 Norma magnum is way heavy duty.
Must say that I love your shows, they are straightforward to the point and unbiased.
What rifle do I swear by Remington 700 or Model 70.
I don’t eat Varmints !
What Cartridge needs to come back ! 6mm Rem, .257 Robert’s, .260 Rem, .280 Rem. & all should be more popular.
Ron you need to try Reloader 26 in your 6mm Rem with a faster twist barrel.
Nice Podcast.
Robinson Arms offers their XCR rifle in 260 Remington! Maybe you all are onto something.
Love both the 6mm Rem. and the .264.
I think the 25s need another chance. The 25-06 isn’t as popular as it should be, and the 257 Roberts is the same way.
I just had a 25/06 built on an old 270 action, my new deer/antelope gun. An awesome round to be sure
my next barrel is a 25 creedmoor for sure
25/06 is a very popular around except for in the United States
yet everyone is loving the 6.5 caliber which is also 25
@@garcex1382 6.5 is actually a 26. Bullet diameter is .264
Thank you for speaking up about conservation. If we want to enjoy being out in nature, then we should do our part to help preserve it. Everyone needs to take a little bit of personal responsibility.
Definitely, Geoff. And I'll up your ante to "everyone needs to do a lot," because the need is great. We are losing about 1.3 million acres of farmland each year. How many pheasants, quail, rabbits, grouse, deer, etc. could live on 1.3 million acres?!
Thank you, Ron for sharing the lessons of history and noting the benefits of copper vs lead in ammo.
270 wsm seems to be doing well here in Nova Scotia
.358WIN needs a 2nd chance!
My dad's first rifle was a Rem 722 in .244 Rem. Given that and that he had reloading dies for it, my first rifle was a Rem 788 in 6mm. His opinion of why the .243 won out was the combination of the twist and the fact that you could get the .243 in Winchester's model 70 as a really nice looking rifle whereas the .244 came in only the Rem 722. The 722 was a very accurate platform, but was as pretty to look at as a fence post. I had that old 722 for a while to see what I could do with it hand loading. We always used Sierra's 85 gr hpbt bullets over IMR 4350. The load that I settled on gave me 3/8" groups at 100 yds out of this 1950's vintage rifle! My 788 can do almost as well.
Yep..your right buddy I have a Tikka M55 6mm Rem,,6x18 Bushnell scope,,I 've had this gun since 1972..I will not part with it..
My buddy has a Brownie Auto 243,,my 6mm Rem walks circles around it...
Lead levels in the blood used to be an issue for some occupations. Parking attendants in the days of leaded gasoline frequently developed high lead levels with the associated health issues. Same for indoor ranges with poor ventilation. But lead doesn't absorb through the skin. Reloaders needed to ensure no food or drink because lead can be absorbed through the stomach. Knew one reloader who kept getting high lead levels. Took a while but found out that he didn't consider his chewing tobacco as food and kept refreshing his chew while reloading. Good handwashing with soap and water when finished is all that's needed. Of course, gloves are so readily available now that some may opt for that protection. Embedded bullets don't always need to be removed. Usually, the body wraps the lead in a "cocoon" and prevents absorption, but not always. It depends on where it lodges. So, when handling lead ensure good ventilation and wash well when finished and all will be well.
'06 and 7-08 are my standard bearers. Then all the others I have are for when I want to change things up.
Ron is right 👍👍👍 the 3006 is better than the 2506 and the 3006 is great on elk 🫎👍👍👍 and ron keep up the great work 💯💯💯💯👍👍👍👍
The .280 Remington and its .280 Ackley Improved brethren. Both are handloader's dreams; both offer the superior 7mm bullet choices compared to the 6.5mm and the .270. The .280 edges very close to 7mm Rem mag performance minus all the heat and blast of magnums.
250 and 300 savage and 257 roberts my three all time favorites.
🤣 I am surprised Ron didn't show his age and say the 300 Savage! 🤭
Great round!
Ah yes. I remember when that first came to market.
🤣 Then where did my 270-300 Savage go? 🤷♂️ I guess it was like the 270-08 - it just couldn't compete with the good old 270 Winchester? 😜
250 savage 3000fps a long time ago.
My second chance loading would be the .358 Winchester.
I have a Henry Long Ranger in 308 and it shoots lights out! It's a great little rifle.
Kudos, Ron. I ain't seen you get one "wrong", yet. We'll thought through, by garsh. A real mature look at ballistics and performance, ... and the dance between those two. Thank You, to you and yours.
Thank you, Leslie.
Great talk Ron, glad you touched on how it's largely hunters who drive conservation and habitat protection.
What about the 7mm Mauser? people overlook that cartridge all the time and it is a fantastic round perfect for deer size game, Ballistic excellence in .284, that and its combined low recoil, I find it is hard to argue about. also a person could also varment hunt with the lighter frangible bullets available,, handcrafted (Hand loaded) ammunition would really bring out the performance in that varment area of need. don't get me wrong, the 257 Roberts is a good round and has been used for hunting species of North American game from Elk to Bear, Moose to woodchucks, Rockchuckers to Foxes. However, shot placement is the key factor when using any of these two. -Dave
7mm mauser... if you handload you can safely far exceed the performance of factory loads.
Pressure for factory is loaded to the turn of the century (1900) pressure levels (as is the 9 x 19, without +P available for the 7mm).
I really like the cartridge, low recoil decent ballistics.
But 7mm-08 is already popular
So ist is. Here in Germany most of our Grandfathers used 7x57 with or without „R“ in bolt action rifles, combination guns or drillings. Today modern cartridges perform much better. 7mm Mauser 3 Band Classic: Vo (muzzle) 3100 ft/sec, Eo 2000ftpds.
The 7mm Mauser IMHO will hold its own against any of the new whizz bang calibers , and even beat a few of them......I hand load a 175 grain round nose and have never needed more punch ...It's pretty easy on my old shoulder also .
7mm Mauser is very popular, just not in the United States. America is kind of a 'cart-before-the-horse' kind of place in that we readily allow lots of civilian gun ownership of military rifles. We build the guns we want and then decide what to feed them.
It's no accident that lots of newer cartridges like the .204 Ruger, .224 Valkyrie, 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel and .300 Blackout will fit inside a STANAG magazine. The AR-15 is a very modular rifle which means that you can do all sorts of things to it from having a super short suppressed carbine, to a 24" barreled long range hunter that will take anything from prairie dogs to nasty Texas hogs.
Before the AR-15, America had the .30-06 and its shortened offspring, the .308 Win. Both of which use the same ~12mm case head diameter as the 8mm and 7mm Mauser cartridges. Not surprising as the 1903 Springfield was a Mauser action. So, Americans took what was handy and iterated on it. It started with long actions that could run the very long .30-06 rounds which quickly became the .270 Win, the 35 Whelen, later we got the 25-06. When .308 came along and people realized you could get serious hunting performance from it, they started taking bullets for the various .30-06 offspring and stuffed them into necked-down .308 cases. This is very helpful if you have an old .30-06 with a shot out barrel. You can now save the action and rebarrel it for one of the many cartridges that are basically shortened versions of the ones mentioned above.
7mm Mauser is great and we know this because in the USA we have no shortage of cartridges in that range. 7mm-08 is the commercial spec of the wildcat 7mm/308 that gained popularity in the late 50s.
But Europe loves its 7mm Mauser. Ditto the 6.5 Swede.
I agree we do not need new cartridges. Modern bullet design and powders can do wonders with already developed calibers. I think the 257 Robert's is an incredible round but there are so many. I will choose accuracy and ease of shooting over everything.
Thank you! I love how you balance data and experience.
I still use Ruger 1974 M77 in .280 Rem Ron has talked a lot about this cartridge.
Some times you just have to use what you got.
Have an old Flaig's custom with a 1960s Remington 700 action and Douglas barrel and amazing custom stock in Circasian walnut. It's chambered in 6mm Remington with 1:9 twist. I love eaking out and extra 125+ fps with 100 grain bullets with screaming out 62 grain varmint bullets. It's about 0.9 moa consistently with one 90 grain load at 0.8 moa. The Timney trigger helps too! Like Ron, I am an underdog kinda guy. I actually have a bunch of brass from when it was released as .244 Norma. Another bit of trivia for another time.
358 Winchester needs a second chance… it’s a real sleeper
A 358 win Ruger ranch type rifle would be bananas
@@K-bob_45 sure would I have a rebarreled gun site scout and it’s awesome
@@K-bob_45 I'd buy it
.358 Winchester is a thumper. It was meant to replace the .348 Winchester in the modern lever action model 88. Or so the legend says. I'm not sure that it totally did that, but it is a great bear cartridge that works well.
@@K-bob_45 yes would love to monkey around with one of those too!! 🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐵🐵🐵🐵🐵
I really did enjoy your intelligent and logical discussions about hunting game animals, non game animals and copper vs lead bullets. I am a hunter who now uses copper bullets because of their superior performance on deer and elk. We need to be concerned about what the general public and anti-hunters think about hunters and their actions. If we have too many non hunters rise up against us because of our actions. Hunting will cease to exist as we know it. Keep up the good work.
7mm STW is an amazing round that is slowly disappearing that I pray does not go away
Yes indeed and so was its parent the 8 mm rem mag.
Too hard on barrels & BIG TIME recoil. Not really needed for most North American game animals.
The 6mm Remington was and is a great cartridge. Lapua used to make 7mm Mauser brass that could simply be run through a 6mm Remington die, and you had a great cartridge with great brass. Fire form it to 6mm AI even better.
I, too, would love to see the 270 WSM revived. It is a fantastic cartridge. I wish Browning/ Winchester had gone the other way with the 6.8 Westerner in the design change and stretched the 270 WSM a little for the heavy bullets and faster twist. The current 6.8 doesn't quite have the power capacity it needs. I realize they were targeting the younger short action only crowd, but a standard length action has served hunters very well for a lot of years. And let's face it, the 270 caliber is still a long way away from enough quality components to become a competitive target contender. So why not make the greatest hunting cartridge ever...
More good logic from an experienced hunter. Thanks Ron.
Be nice to see the 257 Roberts make a comeback. IMO
Thanks for the video, as always.
Hey that's my question! Thanks for giving my question so much thought Ron!
Gosh.. Why did I have to see Ron post up those groups with that Henry!! Now the Temptation comes back! (hehe)
35 Whalen would get my vote. 3006 will never need a second chance. 👍
My first brand new rifle I bought in 1984/85 was a Remington 700ADL 6mm. Recommended by my part time boss and gunsmith I worked for while finishing my senior year in high school. It was a fun lil gun wish I still had it now.
My second chance choice is the 356 I had a marlin in 356 and It was a great Elk rifle for hunting in terrain where the shots were fairly close. My wife still has her Winchester in 307
How about the 7x57 and 250-3000. My two best deer guns.
Interesting how many cartridges went obsolete just because the guns that chambered them had too slow of a twist rate for heavy bullets.
Yeah definitely, happened in the past, and it is happening today too.
This is a really big factor. If 260 had been 8tw instead of 9, we might never have the 6.5 creedmoor.
@@G5Hohn and if 6.5x55 was originally chambered in a 98 mauser instead of the 94 & 96 ( which were perfectly adequate , but US ammo companies are lawsuit shy ) , then there might never have either
Equally, amazing, how many 556 vintage recreation guns use 1/8 despite being an ineffective twist rate (designed for 55gr 20' barrel). The customers insisted on using 1/8 twist because the US military does, albeit for a very specific tracer round. However, I suppose the customer is always right. I know of several recreation companies that went from 1/12 , again for 55 gr, to 1/8 to please some tactical Teddies.
Another with a second chance for the .257 Roberts. Great deer caliber, easy on the shoulder, and has been overlooked for too long.
My grandpa loved .257 Roberts. He rebarreled and sporterized a 6.5 Jap Arisaka in .257 Roberts.
Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
That Remington pump 30-06 was sure a sweet fast, shooting rifle.
760, mine is in .270.
300 savage 760 is a sowing machine and .5" groups at 100yards nice little tack hammer
For 2nd chances would love to see the Ruger 300 RCM and 35 Whelen which I have both in my collection.
Thank you Ron!
I always liked my .308, but recently, I have been loving my H&R rifle in .243. but, my all-time favorite is my Winchester lever XTR in 7-30 Waters.
I have a stevens bolt 223, it was a gift. I have shot zombie max, a couple different brass case fmj but it shoots the best groups with tula🤷♂️. It's my farm rifle, groundhog, foxes and coyotes.
32 Win Spl. Great round and in a Winchester or Marlin lever gun …. Magical!
Ron I live in Louisiana where whitetails and hogs are our game my remington 760 gamemaster with those barnes vor-tx 150 30-06 is lethal long live the 06 😊
Thank you again for all the GREAT information you provide. Love your comment "We really don't need new cartridges" (paraphrase) Agreed, but some new developments are interesting... The new Sig Fury 6.8x51 being a case in point. Just saw an episode of Forgotten Weapons where Ian says there are 2 versions, one having a stainless steel case base & 80k psi! Supposed to push a 135gr bullet at 2750 fps from a 16" barrel. As I said, Interesting.
It's interesting that you brought up the 6mm Remington vs .243 Winchester twist rate issue towards the end when earlier in the same episode you covered the shift towards monolithic copper bullets. The lower-density and therefore longer copper bullets are really making twist rate an issue in more ways than it used to be, and the "traditional" rates can be rather limiting, so rather than seeing a bunch of new cartridges created I wish we could just re-define what "standard" twist rates are for a lot of existing ones to make them a smidge faster across the board. I really wish my .243 Winchesters came with more like a 1:9 barrel rather than 1:10, just to have a liiiiittle more flexibility in copper bullet size - 80gr ones are totally fine, 85gr are riding right on the edge of stability, and 90gr are too long, but a 1:9 would cover those 90-grain ones.
I like that idea, same cartridges, but new design in the barrel departments would make for an all new cartridge kind of, and wouldn’t be detrimental to the lighter bullets… or would it?
@@davidgendron1953 If you go TOO fast that can certainly be detrimental to the lighter lead bullets, but from what I’ve read most seem to have a decent buffer to work with down on that end so a relatively modest change likely wouldn’t cause problems. Meanwhile, lightweight monolithic bullets would be immune to those problems anyway.
Remington's current Model 700s in 243 have a 9 inch ROT. I've had 1 for 15 years, but the hot rod 6mms have 7 & 8 inch ROTs for the longer heavier bullets. Hornady even tells you the ROT needed for their different design bullets.
As for the 6 mm it originally came out as a long range varmint rifle but was named the 244 REM with a 1-12 twist and it got a bad rep by folks trying to run 100 grain bullets. so Remington repackaged it as the 6mm with a 1-9 twist and it was a good round but suffered from the rep of the 244
Ron, thanks for bringing up the touchy subject of lead ammunition. Interestingly there's already a standard banning lead ammunition and that's lead shot in waterfowl hunting. Solid bullets are safe for both scavenging wildlife and human consumption. Ethical hunting means respecting all wildlife and it should be shooters who switch because it's the right thing to do. We shouldn't have to have government regulate what is simply common sense.
Humans have proven for their existence that rules and regulations have to be made to induce change of behaviors. Even if it's common sense to many, it never is for all.
We hav used both 30--06 and 9.3x62 on boar and they both work just fine. 180 Nosler partitions or 286 partitions. just fine.
Good stuff. Well done. Thank you
I’ve had both 243 and 6mm Remington,,I sold the custom 26 inch bull barrel 6mm not long after I bought it ,,,case neck stretch, hard to find brass or loaded ammo was an issue from day one,,,I sold that custom rifle to a pawn shop in Dillon Montana in the year 1976
I think the second chance cartridge should have it's own series. I've come across several older rifles for sale that I passed on because I couldn't find ammo for them.
The right shot placement is of course king, It comes down to how far you want to walk to find it. A animal will run a good distance with the best shot if the cartridge doesn't hit hard enough. 30-06 has always put them on the ground where they stood for me.
6.8 spc is a great hog and deer killer....... it needs to shine again. Great round.
That’s what the US should have adopted for the NGSW program instead of 6.8X51.....it would have only required a barrel, bolt, and mags.....not a new rifle......and US citizens could have benefitted from cheaper surplus FMJ in that caliber.
It missed its opportunity be being bored for .277" instead of .257". Notice that factory ammo is all in common .257" weight class bullets that had to be created, since .277" bullets typically are in the 130gr and up range.
.257" are typically 87gr-120gr, which is perfect for AR-15 action length based on .30 Rem case.
@@ericschumacher5189 Comparing 6.8 SPC to 6.8 NGSW is like comparing .30-30 Win to .300 Weatherby Magnum. The performance difference is dramatically different.
@@ericschumacher5189 well then everyone that works for sig that is a retired general or admiral would not be getting those nice fat advisory roles and corner offices.....
@LRRPFco52 yes; I have a good understanding of what you described. What I intended to convey is the 6.8X51 was said to be intended to defeat level-4 armor and its proven to not be able too without AP ammo using tungsten cores, yet the FMJ will be the standard issue ammo. If the goal post shifts to allow speciality ammo and level 4-armor continues to be of composite / ceramic design, then the velocity isn’t really needed (other caliber have proven this in other countries), the tungsten is the deciding factor in its effectiveness. This is why I commented what I did, as it would seem a lot cheaper / easier to have 6.8-SPC and specialized ammo (since were already doing that now)......the end result is we’d end up with something that is lighter / less recoil than the NGSW, and beneficially cheaper ammo for the civilian market in a caliber that can be used for hunting, compatible with the rifle most people already own in the USA.
2nd chance cartridges, 284 Win is the top choice for me.
me 2
Good cartridge.
6mm Remington was my first center fire rifle, I did let it go eventually because it was a better rifle for the bench then in the woods and field( it was a Remington 700 bull barrel and laminate stock) I’m looking for another one tho since I still have a bunch of ammo for it
For me it would be the 250 Savage.
Ron...squeezed into shape is called swaging. Similar to forging but done cold.
.280 rem. Factory loads are under powered giving the round kind of a bad name. Hand loads perform close to a 7mm rem mag with less recoil.
.280 Remington is one of my favorites. I own two of them.
It's one of those Remington things. They introduced .280 in a gas operated semi auto that just didn't have the same pressure limits as most bolt actions. Potentially the cartridge is really better than .270 Winchester if it was loaded to the same pressure limits.
.280 Remington should have gotten the factory +P treatment like .257 Roberts did decades ago.
That’s why so many went to the ackley
@@polish-hammer8365 That's true. The AI version gives a noticeable power increase without getting into big mag negatives.
2nd chance round... how about the 284 Winchester? Great round.... They could start making the Winchester 88 too.. :)
My first gun was a 270wsm. Shoot a 140gr Accubond at 3180 fps has never let me down.
My dad swore by his .243 and his single shot 12ga. I and his bolt action.22 LR For any and everything he hunted in Indiana, Kentucky .
I have to say mine is a little ol 20ga. ,. Ruger 10-22 and for my go to rifle the 7mm's
I really thought the 284 Winchester would be your choice for second chance cartridges since you appear to have a high affinity for it.
That would be a good one, but we now have the 7 SAUM with all the same benefits and easier to find.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors True, as well, albeit not as popular, 7MM WSM.
Wondering if they will ever come out with a 30-06 or 280 plus p. A load that has a higher pressure like the 270 for the newer rifles
25-06 needs another look now that Barnes has TTSX bullets out in 25 cal. 100Gr bullet going 3350+ ...bit of a barrel burner though at those speeds.
I vote for the .257 Roberts!
Sure wish Winchester would have offered faster twist barrels on their Mod 70’s esp in .270 cal. Then they wouldn’t have needed the 6.8 western cartridge in my opinion. A fast twist rate barrel for the .270 WSM as well. Could have opened up the market to a great selection of high B.C. .277 dia projectiles for bullet manufactures as well. The 6.5 Creedmore probably would have never taken hold if this was the case?
35 rem and 300 savage are awesome deer and bear guns! Definitely need a reboot!!
If the latest decision by the US military, in regards to cartridges, is any indication, the 270-08 is a wildcat cartridge that certainly should have done much better than it did.
Great video.
From what I've learned about metallurgy copper gets harder when you work it so hammering it will actually harden it heating it up will soften it, by doing a squished copper bullet vs milling is actually like hard cast lead versus plain unalloyed lead bullets