My issue with M+ was bricking keys. Same problem with Ranked Arena that I had when I was 2400+. You spend more time finding a group than actually playing.. In M+ you spend forever finding a group then it bricks on first boss and you're left standing around with your dick in your hand and a key that is now lower that NO ONE your rating wants to push...
@@thiloramke3320 I am not saying this to brag but to express that I know what I am talking about. I played M+ to 20+ on all in Season 1 of DF and finished at top ~1.5% of priest healers. I did that entirely pugging and that’s a big problem and I’ll tell you why. There is a HUGE player desert between top 98th percentile and 99th percentile in every form of the game. I can pug to 3.2k IO pretty easily but after that there are almost no people that are on your level to play with so it’s nearly impossible to find a group. There are a lot of people doing 20s that can’t do a 25 then there are legit teams that are doing 30s that don’t want to play with you cuz you’re lower than them. The SAME thing happened in SL when I was big into RBGs and quit playing them too… It was pretty easy to get to 2000-2200 rating, but getting to 2400 was nearly impossible because you spent 2+ hours forming a single group of people around your rating. There were a lot of 2k-2.2k that would join your team and suck but finding 10 2.3k+ players was nearly impossible. Then you hit 2400 and there is a 400 rating desert where there is no one to play with. You’ve reached max pug rating. The true premade teams for 2800+ don’t want to play with a lowly 2400. And before anyone says anything yes, I’ve tried VERY hard to make premade groups. I’ve spent countless hours working to find people and it never pans out. The only form of play that people seem willing to plan around IRL is raiding.
there are bricks in every sport and every game man, how do you intend to not have those from time to time? lol um K... you run pugs right? Bricks will never stop man... find a 5 man group... dont join a pug, have the key fail, and say it Blizzards fault.. PUHAHAHA LET me guess... u want to fail the run but keep your same key? you want some cheese with that WHINE?
Respawns should ALWAYS be after you kill a boss, that becomes the next checkpoint. It makes killing a boss an achievement and a sigh of relief in higher keys.
This is good in almost all cases. In some dungeon designs, it is a longer run back from some bosses (like Throne of Tides) rather than just the entrance
I think having a season at the end of each expansion that the dev team runs wild with experiments is an absolute no brainer. Even if it does not work, it is easy to make it up to the player base with a prepatch, etc, and it would allow the next expansion to be a lot more polished.
As a mid range M+ player I am not quite able to hit title but also play much higher keys than the max reward (10), I would LOVE to get some form of cosmetic for doing like 15s let the sweaty title players have like the sick red mog, give me the slightly less cool one, but give me something
"You finally get to date the person you wanted to date. That you have been having a crush on for the longest time. And then on the first date the person tells you there is a downside. I have a curfew at 11:00 or else my dad who does mixed martial arts is going to kick your ass."
Idk if I'm burning meal in the kitchen with this one but maybe tyrannical could give haste to the boss? Fight would be faster, require more thought with defensives instead of making it longer. Ofc it would have to be tested again so 2 mechanics don't overlap in unfun way
I think the problem with MDI is the inevitable boringness of what a META does to the audience when it comes to a competitive setting. Teams participating are incentivized to play the same comps for optimal gameplay because there is a money incentive to do so and it is simply not worth participating in the MDI if there is no money incentive.
@@bojnebojnebojne If there wasn't money involved, the key pushing scene would still be alive and well. There's still a sizeable community of Sly Cooper speedrunners. They're competing for no money, and the ''meta'' never changes. Competition will always exist, affixes and prize pools don't change that fundamental fact.
@@panda8bamboo161 Well duh, there's always going to be people who do things for the sake of doing it. What i'm getting at is that the competitive scene wouldn't be as big or have as high quality of play and skilled players without a monetary incentive. And as a response to the lack of quality and player skill, the audience will gradually lose interest as a result. That's what happens in real sports as well. When the quality of a sport degrade, so does the interest from the audience... That's why lower divisions of any sport have a lower audience rating. It's basic as fk and debating it is stupid and ignorant. Monetary incentives are necessary to keep a competitive scene going long term.
Although, I can already feel the new pain of 90% of pugs disbanding at the first death of a single player. Not to mention, the much too ambitious goal of "training" people in pugs to kick casts by simply adding more casts that need to be kicked. Pug life didn't get any easier here. LOL
Was chatting with some buddies and someone suggested the following change as well: - If you complete a key, but over time, you get the key back at the same key level. The main benefit will obviously be to enable groups to continue attempting a key at a certain level. Separately, it will solve the concern that if keys do not deplete, people will just try massive initial pulls and just reset if it does not go well. It will also encourage people to practice keys further into the dungeon. #completedoesntdeplete
I still don't know why affixes exist at all. They were literally a bandaid for a problem that doesn't exist anymore. We used to play the same 8 dungeons for an entire expansion which is where blizzard needed to do something because it was boring. Affixes were the bandaid. The long term solution needs to be simply giving us more new dungeons. If they can create new raids every content patch, then they can create at least a few new dungeons. You'd think that since M+ is literally the biggest feature keeping the game alive they'd actually invest into it.
@@JackJackKcajifyyou don’t want . 99% of the playerbase do as you can see from the feedback. People also want myth track gear to drop from +6 instead of +8 . People also want mythic raid to not drop gear and for it to just be a challenge for top players
@@JackJackKcajify some people, not everyone, have advocated for mythic raid to drop cosmetic only rewards (i.e. first boss drops wrist xmog, 2nd drops boots, etc. etc. final boss drops shoulders) A more reasonable take I think is for the final boss to only have cosmetic rewards, but the earlier bosses stay as they are. Imo it feels a bit silly for the last boss in mythic to drop gear rewards. Like, you just killed the final boss on the hardest difficulty and your reward is... a slight damage increase IF you are lucky enough to get a drop. A slight damage increase which you don't need because you just killed the hardest boss...on the hardest difficulty. If the reward was Xmog or a mount, or a spell/weapon effect that'd be an actual reward. Everyone has a different idea of what they want though, there is no "correct" or perfect answer. Hope this helps explain why some of us have this idea.
Thanks Quazii , fantastic video and I’m very glad for these changes ! Yes please add cosmetic appearances back to keys 10+ challenge mode armour and wep recolours to start is fine.
My only ask is that they keep the seasonal even acter 12+ ALONG with the 20% buff to the dungeons. I enjoy the seasonals and don't want them to go away when I'm pushing higher keys. Also, 15 secs per death is just horrid. It's not going to make people play better, people are still going to play just as bad as now and pugs will break up even more after a full wipe even in lower keys.
I must have had a frontal lobotomy that I'm not aware of. Xal'atath's bargain is not only is a punishment for lesser skilled players, it effectively removes your CCs from the game permanently. I'm sorry, I just don't think you understand the game from a lesser players perspective. This affix is terrible.
Man, I love your channel! Your videos are always top-notch: structured very well, well-articulated, with chapters for everything, a very balanced view, and well-reasoned arguments. Such a joy to watch every time! I do hope there will be some changes with the seasons though. A bit of change is still nice!
@@ScorpionP2C They should do that. And i'm pretty sure it will be optional. So you can run using premade groups if you want. This feature will come at some point so get used to the idea now.
Now IF they make the portals account wide aswell, you might have an amazing expansion. I don't mind pushing on 1 character but not on all my alts. But those portals make it so you feel like you need to push on every single alt aswell. Let me unlock them on my main and let me use them on my alts.
Very happy to see how happy you are and how fast they reacted indeed. Tinfoil hat theory, their big scandal cleared the rot out and it starts to show bit by bit.
I like these new ones, though I do miss the hard challenges of BFA. I was in the top 10 of disc priest healers on a high pop west coast server in BFA, and earned over 6 million gold doing carries. M+ was popular in legion and BFA despite qualitative challenges, not just really high scaling. You couldn’t push as high in those days.
Seems like a cleaner choice to only have one moving piece on the keys on the way up the ladder. (Assend/Frenzy)>Fort>Challenger>Tyran>InfinityNBeyond What being said... Bring back Reaping!!
100% agree on the next change. Rewards past +10 would be amazing. I've done a season where I have pushed to +26's/16's current. I know I can, but every season after I have absolutely no motivation to do it. The effort it takes, is not worth the "Bigger IO number"
If they are not going to change the graveyards mentality it means that with the new affix it would increase the number of leavers after a handful of deaths 🫢 even more than now. I hope it’s not the case.
I’m a player that exists on both end of the spectrum. I always get 3k ip, KSM, and portals and then push harder (13ish) I play every week to get vault rewards and to push my personal best. I’m generally positive about these changes but do have concerns: 1. Challengers peril is too high. I timed a 12 yesterday but the death count would have pushed it into untimed territory. 10 seconds is more fair. 2. I worry the rank 2 affixes will never get feedback and could end up being very bad since the top players won’t be complaining about them.
What’s funny is all of the affixes being removed have been nerfed at least once. They knew they were bad and unpopular. I won’t hold a grudge-I’m just glad they’re gone. The number one win is SANGUINE
I had already made the choice to go Hunter as my main in TWW a couple weeks ago. And as things were looking in M+ being a Hunter was good and bad. But now I can just enjoy my class and pound keys without allot of stress from affixes. This is actually insane and I love it. But I am also waiting for the out of season April fools from Blizzard.
High keys are not for me, so it sounds like I'm still waiting to find out what affixes will now replace those that are gone in low keys. But I'm just happy Sanguine is gone. As a tank, frost week/holy week/bleed week would not have affected me much, but boy was that an horrible HORRIBLE idea for pugs! Glad they scrapped that too, that was pure PUG misery.
Its odd how fast people forgot what a bitch bursting was in dungeons like tott, Manor and everbloom. Large packs of low hp targets that all burst... it was shit
M+ is like playing Dark souls either u get to know mechanics / pattern and gitgud or just deinstall the game. ALSO it is a really good attempt in making M+ environment better and more consistent and easier to get into due to the affixes that caused majority of player to not do it further or at all to give it a shot now. I like the changes and now we gonna see tuning
Sorry, but I just don't share your enthusiasm. As a pug tank who pugs up to portals, I'm going to need to deal with no aspects until +9s, fort AND tyrannical, and 35 minutes straight of orb chasing. Plus instead of a dispellable enrage, trash will get double-bloodlusted for a third of their HP. This all sounds like hell for my seasonal goals.
Hey mate hope your fine? Can you please give a Feedback about SP in tww? Still a M+ Meta Class? An you will make a full WA Package for TWW M+? about stuns and Spell inc? ty
I have a theory. They were planning on doing this all along. Leaving in the painful affixes and creating the new ones which were just “meh”, was all a gimmick in order to get the M+ community really stoked!
@@azizmarhoomi2655 Exactly. I was kind of hoping for a fix regarding that. I suppose I'll just level one of each class to 70 and then wait to see what the meta is and level that toon so I can get invited to groups. Not a good scene at all.
@@needcoffeebrb i don’t think there is anything blizz can do regarding meta beside vigorous tuning, especially in the affixes department. It’s all about players perception and realization that you don’t need meta comp for average keys.
Blizzard seems that they're all in on pleasing the players. Like finally. Just listening and adjusting to our expectations. It's awesome. Hope it continues. Hope the game plays well once it's released. Hope this game comes back to life (It's very lively, but the more players the better)
Whoever is in charge right now is finally enabling/forcing devs to listen and it's very refreshing. The game will never be perfect (no game is) but man, it feels good to know good news is becoming more common than ever. And yea, thank the lord they understand which affixes fucking suck and how anything under +10 felt like awkward padding. (at least to me)
M+ should give shopping points to vendor wich are viable to casuals that need gear to improve raid progresss aswell as solo content and not run out of m+ emptyhanded with low droprate/ luckrate.
the thing that i love most about @quaziiwow is that everyone else uses negativity to gain views and he is always possitive and explaining. others want views but he wants a better game so we can all have fun! keep it up man.
I miss the seasonal affixes from BFA that change the way you handle the dungeon somewhat. The bosses that allowed you to do trash skips or bwonsamdis swarm of trash at "X%". Gave a little more variety. BFA dungeons I liked because I felt they werent overly complicated but the routes werent a given either. Had options on what to pull.
i would say let them do the right thing one by one, removing all the toxic affixes, balance them better and add back some good affixes to make m+ better, thats what they should do in all these years
I have quite a bit of issue with deaths being more punishing in M+. One of the reasons I stopped doing keys once I got to +20s, was the amount of toxicity that comes with wanting to push higher keys. Having M+ be more punishing increases the likelihood of players shitting on each other for every little mistake made.
I don't think its viable to push +20s with a bunch of strangers without voice comms. in the event u or your mates still get toxicity for every little mistakes made its time to reconsider who are your party members causing it. general context if you make a choice to actively play with elitist who make zero mistakes expect strong feedbacks when mistakes are made. with all these being said the change of increasing death timer is something within player's control which is always a good change when compared to some insane affix like sanguine.
@@SacristScorn I definitely agree with you. I personally think that dungeons being punishing isn't the issue at it's core tbf. I mostly think that M+ score is the bigger issue. I understand that there's a want for a solid way to vet players for groups with higher keys, but that score makes people want to min max their +12. I'd get declined for keys even in the 11-15 range for simply being 1.9k instead of 2k. It's an artificial number that I feel hurts more than it helps. Idk a great way to solve this problem, but I don't like the current system.
RIP Bolstering and Sanguine, these affixes never bothered me anyway. As a BDK, VDH, and Prot Pali player...honestly...just get better. You can't do the mechanics, you refuse to learn the mechanics, want to stand in 1 spot per pull and piddle yourself, you shouldn't be tanking to begin with. On the highest mobility, lowest mobility, and a mid tier mobility tank, these two affixes were never issues in my runs. Grip, silences, all kinds of ways to deal with them. Bolstering is mainly a timing and dps check anyway, just multi pull and focus targets better so they die within seconds of each other. Stuff like this is a massive reason why I'm leaving, effort and skill don't mean what they used to. Raging, understandable in some circumstances...but again, get your rotations right. Game is just making it easier for people who don't want to learn to devalue achievements. Massive dislike
I agree that Bolstering and Bursting were overpowered but they could have just lowered the numbers, not remove them; The only thing that's wrong with Sanguine was that it instantly deals damage when you step on it, instead of dealing damage every seconds; Raging should have been reworked to work differently. It was too whatever and weak and actually needed buff; I am really, really concerned about this decision.
I think fort/tyrannical need to either not exist, or really need to be changed. Overall great changes, for sure, but tyrannical and fort feel super outdated. Mobs/bosses in high keys already do big damage. Scaling even more of that seems more punishing. Maybe only make certain mobs give like an aura to certain packs that cause it. Maybe yeah, remove either health or damage done from bosses woth tyrannical. Or have them gain tyrannical wheh in execute range, like an enrage.
So far: really good changes. I guess they push portals now to +12 - knowing Blizzard that seems like a logical step for them. Cant give rewards for fun!^^
these changes are great, but I hate that it's literally impossible to get myth track trinkets and apparently they're not changing it. it should be possible to get myth track trinkets (and maybe only trinkets) from 12 and above
Challenger's Peril does nothing but encouraging people to leave a key after a couple of deaths because "RIP key". I'd also argue that the +7 and above bracket is where the majority of the playerbase is found, especially in the PUG environment; with this they're just emphasizing an aspect of the M+ system (the timer) which is already one of the main sources of frustration for many players.
Honestly, git gud. Having farmed 8-10s for multiple seasons it’s really not that hard to … just not die? The mechanics and dmg at that key level is laughable, like you HAVE to be AFK to get one-shot by something. At least now the head empty players carried by ilvl will be hardstuck due to constantly dying. It makes little difference to the rest of us.
@@michiganhughes I get your point and agree to some extent, the change doesn't affect me and probably doesn't affect you from what I read. Mind you when I say +7 I'm referring to the new M+ system, so the equivalent of a previous +17 more or less? In which, especially on S1, some might be still susceptible to random deaths for whatever reason, even one single full group wipe will now amount to 1m15s compared to the 20 seconds we have now and the random sweaty leavers will gorge on that. My point is that I believe there are many other different ways to get players to "git gud" which don't necessarily involve a timer.
@@RiodaC Yes. Deaths shouldn’t be happening on a +7/+17 in the old system to begin with. It’s almost invariably due to standing in something or being extremely undergeared. Missing kicks won’t even cause deaths at +10. Point is, a group that is wiping at that level shouldn’t be playing at that level in the first place. Putting a wall in the form of a timer filters out/forces players to get good. In each season of DF, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve experienced players leave during a perfectly timable dungeon. It’s not that big of a problem if at all if you know how to pick your groups.
lets remove all the affixes and the timer and only add flat 10% hp to the bosses and mobs up untill 15+ yeah actually only 5%hp to bosses because some mobs might ruin the majority of the playerbase
I think this is good not enough variation though, im sorry the content creators are wrong. Here ya go full argument with a test. Previously Dratnos stated there were 10 times the m+ players as mythic raid. That categorically changes and will no longer be true. The group that suffers will be the ppl that previously farmed 20+. Every week will be the same. This is a real problem when you consider were the current pull of players that gateways into the best players in the game.
finally blizzard removes affixes that should've never seen the light of day, wahoo checks new affix ''if you know raszageth sparks this'll be easy to understand'' uuh marketing bro that aint the wording you want to use sees new affix which is active in every key above 7, punishes deaths even furter 5 -> 15 seconds off the clock rather than fix some of the terrible runbacks after deaths.... okay thats braindead new affix, add 20% dmg and health to the ENTIRE dungeon.... uuh so TL:DR blizzard removed afixed that never should've been in the game in the first place, but in the same change added new uninteractive affixes while still upholding the fort/tyrannical tradition........ lol. lmao even.
Transmog sets that start at portal +10 and grant beefier and more epic look and effects of the gear set all the way up to 15 or 18's or so? whatever they decide is the sweet spot to cap out but 100% Xmog and mounts are the way to rope people in!
Sorry. I don't think low keys should be treated differently than high key pushers. I think it's bs. This is completely changing myind on doing mythics at all next expac.
I still find it boring that +12 keys will be same for the entire season. Sure its most effective to push keys. But its also most boring, Zero variation. I always loved affixes that kindof forces you to play different routes and pulls. So you simply cant Copy Paste MDT's and train it
I do not understand much the hype of removing so many affix every patch, I already feel like removing the seasonal was a huge loss, and now even more is removed, it makes the keys a bit boring, what's next, just inflating hp and dmg without any change? cause it just feels like it mixing fortified and tyrannical, no spice. mythic plus becoming like unseasoned food, it was already a bit repetitive at some point, it's gonna be even more.
brilliant changes :) GG blizzard, and NO I don't want more rewards beyond M+10 !¨! because then I have to do them higher keys, and I really don't want to do that !! :)
I really dislike the lower key scale; not enough wiggle room for incremental score increases for the average player, and also makes it way too fast to get KSM and then you feel like you have no reason to play it anymore after 2 weeks unless you want to push rating.
@@marcell_22 I am a 2.9k io player... I solo queue only because my IRL friends don't play much. I have been 2.5k+ io just about every season since BFA on various healers and dps... lol the lower key scale does not feel and fulfilling as when KSM required 15s
@@35jdub I would not be against raising the bar for achievements and/or including more tmog/such rewards at lower keys. Also new affixes bring some fun variety to low keys. But what I was trying to suggest is maybe you should try to improve at gameplay / knowledge of your class and dungeon mechanics and as a result of that you can easily get more score than 2.9k even if you solo pug. In this regard m+ can be a source of pretty much endless achievement and fun. Also the higher the keys get the less random shit happens in keys since people play better in general which means less toxic people, fewer leavers, and more of really an enjoyable group effort.
@@marcell_22 The focus the community puts on M+ score makes it more difficult to put your score as a solo player; lets say that I have 2850 score and the only way that I can get it further is by doing 12s. Well, everyone looking for people for 12s might be looking for 2900+ score. I now have no choice but to try and run 11s again and just time them faster than the previous one I have done, in hopes of +2 or +3 the key to edge out a little more score just to be able to get into a 12. Whereas before, I could have gotten into 23s to keep pulling my score up and feel like I'm making good progress before trying a 24. But now we are forced to jump from a 22 to a 24 and not have any ability to make progress in between
Punishing deaths in +7s is bad. You think... it'll train people not to die? You think that people don't already know not to die? Everything else is fine, but the +7 affix is a hard miss. It's far more punishing than anything in the +5 pool. Plus, like, it's boring. They could've done something a little better. Another kiss/curse mechanic that's just as challenging would've been nice to see instead.
Good news! They got rid of incorp ... and replaced it with a NEW version that spawns 20 orbs that need to be CCed or else enemies get 400% haste. Every minute!
My issue with M+ was bricking keys. Same problem with Ranked Arena that I had when I was 2400+. You spend more time finding a group than actually playing.. In M+ you spend forever finding a group then it bricks on first boss and you're left standing around with your dick in your hand and a key that is now lower that NO ONE your rating wants to push...
That's why I never pug.
This comment needs way more upvotes. It maybe doesnt matter for premade groups that much. But it would make running with a pug so much more fun.
@@thiloramke3320 I am not saying this to brag but to express that I know what I am talking about. I played M+ to 20+ on all in Season 1 of DF and finished at top ~1.5% of priest healers. I did that entirely pugging and that’s a big problem and I’ll tell you why. There is a HUGE player desert between top 98th percentile and 99th percentile in every form of the game. I can pug to 3.2k IO pretty easily but after that there are almost no people that are on your level to play with so it’s nearly impossible to find a group. There are a lot of people doing 20s that can’t do a 25 then there are legit teams that are doing 30s that don’t want to play with you cuz you’re lower than them. The SAME thing happened in SL when I was big into RBGs and quit playing them too… It was pretty easy to get to 2000-2200 rating, but getting to 2400 was nearly impossible because you spent 2+ hours forming a single group of people around your rating. There were a lot of 2k-2.2k that would join your team and suck but finding 10 2.3k+ players was nearly impossible. Then you hit 2400 and there is a 400 rating desert where there is no one to play with. You’ve reached max pug rating. The true premade teams for 2800+ don’t want to play with a lowly 2400. And before anyone says anything yes, I’ve tried VERY hard to make premade groups. I’ve spent countless hours working to find people and it never pans out. The only form of play that people seem willing to plan around IRL is raiding.
You'll get more of that in TWW with the +7 death punish mechanic.
there are bricks in every sport and every game man, how do you intend to not have those from time to time? lol um K... you run pugs right? Bricks will never stop man... find a 5 man group... dont join a pug, have the key fail, and say it Blizzards fault.. PUHAHAHA LET me guess... u want to fail the run but keep your same key? you want some cheese with that WHINE?
Respawns should ALWAYS be after you kill a boss, that becomes the next checkpoint. It makes killing a boss an achievement and a sigh of relief in higher keys.
super true
This is good in almost all cases. In some dungeon designs, it is a longer run back from some bosses (like Throne of Tides) rather than just the entrance
Best i can do is start of the dungeon with possible small checkpoint if you have the right covenant
Atal'dazar
Add a transmog set for 3k and and weapon illusion for like 3500 or something like that
Removing bursting is actually big for lower alt pug keys. That shit was popping people left and right
It’s actually fantastic! Can we now make healing fun again, pretty please?
no fun allowed for healers, sorry
dont know what spec u play but healing is actually pretty fun this season, atleast the most fun we had in a long time.
I think having a season at the end of each expansion that the dev team runs wild with experiments is an absolute no brainer. Even if it does not work, it is easy to make it up to the player base with a prepatch, etc, and it would allow the next expansion to be a lot more polished.
Ya ur right completely here, this is free real estate to cause whatever Shakeup
As a mid range M+ player I am not quite able to hit title but also play much higher keys than the max reward (10), I would LOVE to get some form of cosmetic for doing like 15s let the sweaty title players have like the sick red mog, give me the slightly less cool one, but give me something
Agreed . A gladiator recolor mount at 3000 rio or 3.4k
Mid Range? +15s?? Isnt that like ..Top 5% of players ...
@@Spike-xv1ts 15 is insanely high in season 4
Are you sating you did 5s? 15 is last seasons 25s 😂
what appearance are u talking about for doign +15s? the legion one?
"You finally get to date the person you wanted to date. That you have been having a crush on for the longest time. And then on the first date the person tells you there is a downside. I have a curfew at 11:00 or else my dad who does mixed martial arts is going to kick your ass."
NGL think Quazii is lowkey a comedy genius
@@PlusManaor has dated this person
That win because of u guys . Thx alot ❤
Idk if I'm burning meal in the kitchen with this one but maybe tyrannical could give haste to the boss?
Fight would be faster, require more thought with defensives instead of making it longer. Ofc it would have to be tested again so 2 mechanics don't overlap in unfun way
MDI will be much easier to follow without having to homework affix mixes for all the dungeons
I think the problem with MDI is the inevitable boringness of what a META does to the audience when it comes to a competitive setting.
Teams participating are incentivized to play the same comps for optimal gameplay because there is a money incentive to do so and it is simply not worth participating in the MDI if there is no money incentive.
@@bojnebojnebojne If there wasn't money involved, the key pushing scene would still be alive and well. There's still a sizeable community of Sly Cooper speedrunners. They're competing for no money, and the ''meta'' never changes. Competition will always exist, affixes and prize pools don't change that fundamental fact.
@@TempoNama Money is always involved in a competitive setting, thinking it isn't is being ignorant.
@@bojnebojnebojnehe saying still exist without it. 5head
@@panda8bamboo161 Well duh, there's always going to be people who do things for the sake of doing it.
What i'm getting at is that the competitive scene wouldn't be as big or have as high quality of play and skilled players without a monetary incentive.
And as a response to the lack of quality and player skill, the audience will gradually lose interest as a result.
That's what happens in real sports as well. When the quality of a sport degrade, so does the interest from the audience...
That's why lower divisions of any sport have a lower audience rating.
It's basic as fk and debating it is stupid and ignorant.
Monetary incentives are necessary to keep a competitive scene going long term.
Although, I can already feel the new pain of 90% of pugs disbanding at the first death of a single player. Not to mention, the much too ambitious goal of "training" people in pugs to kick casts by simply adding more casts that need to be kicked. Pug life didn't get any easier here. LOL
Pug life 100% got worse here
Well, glass half full: Sanguine is gone! Every tank on Earth is drinking to that today. 😂
Was chatting with some buddies and someone suggested the following change as well:
- If you complete a key, but over time, you get the key back at the same key level. The main benefit will obviously be to enable groups to continue attempting a key at a certain level. Separately, it will solve the concern that if keys do not deplete, people will just try massive initial pulls and just reset if it does not go well. It will also encourage people to practice keys further into the dungeon.
#completedoesntdeplete
I still don't know why affixes exist at all. They were literally a bandaid for a problem that doesn't exist anymore. We used to play the same 8 dungeons for an entire expansion which is where blizzard needed to do something because it was boring. Affixes were the bandaid.
The long term solution needs to be simply giving us more new dungeons. If they can create new raids every content patch, then they can create at least a few new dungeons. You'd think that since M+ is literally the biggest feature keeping the game alive they'd actually invest into it.
why not have both. no affixes really does make things easy, which we dont want
@@JackJackKcajifyyou don’t want . 99% of the playerbase do as you can see from the feedback. People also want myth track gear to drop from +6 instead of +8 . People also want mythic raid to not drop gear and for it to just be a challenge for top players
This is blatantly false lmao@@JackJackKcajify
@@Thrall966 mythic raid to have no rewards? your not even talking sense. lmao.
@@JackJackKcajify some people, not everyone, have advocated for mythic raid to drop cosmetic only rewards (i.e. first boss drops wrist xmog, 2nd drops boots, etc. etc. final boss drops shoulders)
A more reasonable take I think is for the final boss to only have cosmetic rewards, but the earlier bosses stay as they are. Imo it feels a bit silly for the last boss in mythic to drop gear rewards. Like, you just killed the final boss on the hardest difficulty and your reward is... a slight damage increase IF you are lucky enough to get a drop. A slight damage increase which you don't need because you just killed the hardest boss...on the hardest difficulty. If the reward was Xmog or a mount, or a spell/weapon effect that'd be an actual reward.
Everyone has a different idea of what they want though, there is no "correct" or perfect answer. Hope this helps explain why some of us have this idea.
Thanks Quazii , fantastic video and I’m very glad for these changes !
Yes please add cosmetic appearances back to keys 10+ challenge mode armour and wep recolours to start is fine.
My only ask is that they keep the seasonal even acter 12+ ALONG with the 20% buff to the dungeons.
I enjoy the seasonals and don't want them to go away when I'm pushing higher keys.
Also, 15 secs per death is just horrid. It's not going to make people play better, people are still going to play just as bad as now and pugs will break up even more after a full wipe even in lower keys.
I must have had a frontal lobotomy that I'm not aware of. Xal'atath's bargain is not only is a punishment for lesser skilled players, it effectively removes your CCs from the game permanently. I'm sorry, I just don't think you understand the game from a lesser players perspective. This affix is terrible.
Man, I love your channel! Your videos are always top-notch: structured very well, well-articulated, with chapters for everything, a very balanced view, and well-reasoned arguments. Such a joy to watch every time!
I do hope there will be some changes with the seasons though. A bit of change is still nice!
hes a blizzard simp
I never had much issue with Sanguine, but it was extremely annoying when casting mobs wouldn't move out of it.
They need m+ 1-15 lfg
This
there is no mythic 1, and no they dont need to do that
learn to use premade groups filters
@@ScorpionP2C They should do that. And i'm pretty sure it will be optional. So you can run using premade groups if you want. This feature will come at some point so get used to the idea now.
@@l_Nightbot_l how about no
Hell yeah Quazii, so psyched for M+ in TWW!
Now IF they make the portals account wide aswell, you might have an amazing expansion. I don't mind pushing on 1 character but not on all my alts. But those portals make it so you feel like you need to push on every single alt aswell. Let me unlock them on my main and let me use them on my alts.
Very happy to see how happy you are and how fast they reacted indeed. Tinfoil hat theory, their big scandal cleared the rot out and it starts to show bit by bit.
I like these new ones, though I do miss the hard challenges of BFA. I was in the top 10 of disc priest healers on a high pop west coast server in BFA, and earned over 6 million gold doing carries. M+ was popular in legion and BFA despite qualitative challenges, not just really high scaling. You couldn’t push as high in those days.
The jump from 11 to 12 is going to be pretty massive. Fortified, tyrannical, and guile all stacked on top of one another.
That lvl is for 1% of people. So not for you
@@hanzomain8302 I mean I'm still going to do it as I'm pushing 14 and up currently. Just something I took note of is all.
Seems like a cleaner choice to only have one moving piece on the keys on the way up the ladder.
(Assend/Frenzy)>Fort>Challenger>Tyran>InfinityNBeyond
What being said... Bring back Reaping!!
12s and above are gonna be hard as hell. Fort abd tyran AND 20% more health and dmg? That's a huge barrier for pugs.
100% agree on the next change. Rewards past +10 would be amazing. I've done a season where I have pushed to +26's/16's current. I know I can, but every season after I have absolutely no motivation to do it. The effort it takes, is not worth the "Bigger IO number"
Thanks for video. Do you have any links to your UI/add on set up!?
yes in description of video - all free (:
great video, you dont know how much i laughed about the intro 🤣, rip affixes!
If they are not going to change the graveyards mentality it means that with the new affix it would increase the number of leavers after a handful of deaths 🫢 even more than now. I hope it’s not the case.
I’m a player that exists on both end of the spectrum. I always get 3k ip, KSM, and portals and then push harder (13ish) I play every week to get vault rewards and to push my personal best. I’m generally positive about these changes but do have concerns:
1. Challengers peril is too high. I timed a 12 yesterday but the death count would have pushed it into untimed territory. 10 seconds is more fair.
2. I worry the rank 2 affixes will never get feedback and could end up being very bad since the top players won’t be complaining about them.
What’s funny is all of the affixes being removed have been nerfed at least once. They knew they were bad and unpopular. I won’t hold a grudge-I’m just glad they’re gone. The number one win is SANGUINE
I had already made the choice to go Hunter as my main in TWW a couple weeks ago. And as things were looking in M+ being a Hunter was good and bad. But now I can just enjoy my class and pound keys without allot of stress from affixes. This is actually insane and I love it.
But I am also waiting for the out of season April fools from Blizzard.
High keys are not for me, so it sounds like I'm still waiting to find out what affixes will now replace those that are gone in low keys. But I'm just happy Sanguine is gone. As a tank, frost week/holy week/bleed week would not have affected me much, but boy was that an horrible HORRIBLE idea for pugs! Glad they scrapped that too, that was pure PUG misery.
Its odd how fast people forgot what a bitch bursting was in dungeons like tott, Manor and everbloom. Large packs of low hp targets that all burst... it was shit
Would love the idea of S4 as experimental season with new affixes, and affix changes. Maybe it does incentify more peepz to keep on playing
Great changes for M+. The game mode is saved. Very excited.
the problem with sanguine is that we dont have enough knockbacks in our classes tool kit to prevent mobs from swimming in the pool.
That will probably be the main complaint for Bargain: Ascendant
There are enough, you just refuse to take out of meta classes that have these knockbacks
More that so many recent mobs are immune to CC. Frustrating as fuck when a mob decides to cast and refuse to move as Sanguine is dropping
@@GW2Zaruz That's on you mate, you gotta focus these ones first ^^"
As a rdruid with typhoon it was a meh affix. Bad tanks are bad tanks
M+ is like playing Dark souls
either u get to know mechanics / pattern and gitgud or just deinstall the game.
ALSO
it is a really good attempt in making M+ environment better and more consistent and easier to get into due to the affixes that caused majority of player to not do it further or at all to give it a shot now.
I like the changes and now we gonna see tuning
Sorry, but I just don't share your enthusiasm. As a pug tank who pugs up to portals, I'm going to need to deal with no aspects until +9s, fort AND tyrannical, and 35 minutes straight of orb chasing. Plus instead of a dispellable enrage, trash will get double-bloodlusted for a third of their HP. This all sounds like hell for my seasonal goals.
Hey mate hope your fine? Can you please give a Feedback about SP in tww? Still a M+ Meta Class?
An you will make a full WA Package for TWW M+? about stuns and Spell inc?
ty
Thank you again Quazii for making an awesome video.
I have a theory. They were planning on doing this all along. Leaving in the painful affixes and creating the new ones which were just “meh”, was all a gimmick in order to get the M+ community really stoked!
Sanguine was my skip week as tank. the later the season the higher the chance i didnt even come back after that.
I think this means the "meta", once found, will be locked in for the season. No variety in classes.
Which is what exactly happening already
@@azizmarhoomi2655 Exactly. I was kind of hoping for a fix regarding that. I suppose I'll just level one of each class to 70 and then wait to see what the meta is and level that toon so I can get invited to groups. Not a good scene at all.
@@needcoffeebrb i don’t think there is anything blizz can do regarding meta beside vigorous tuning, especially in the affixes department.
It’s all about players perception and realization that you don’t need meta comp for average keys.
@@azizmarhoomi2655 Yeah. I just don't see them coming to that realization, as sad as that is.
Blizzard seems that they're all in on pleasing the players. Like finally. Just listening and adjusting to our expectations. It's awesome. Hope it continues. Hope the game plays well once it's released. Hope this game comes back to life (It's very lively, but the more players the better)
Whoever is in charge right now is finally enabling/forcing devs to listen and it's very refreshing.
The game will never be perfect (no game is) but man, it feels good to know good news is becoming more common than ever.
And yea, thank the lord they understand which affixes fucking suck and how anything under +10 felt like awkward padding. (at least to me)
M+ should give shopping points to vendor wich are viable to casuals that need gear to improve raid progresss aswell as solo content and not run out of m+ emptyhanded with low droprate/ luckrate.
the thing that i love most about @quaziiwow is that everyone else uses negativity to gain views and he is always possitive and explaining. others want views but he wants a better game so we can all have fun! keep it up man.
eyy we'll finally be able to focus on dungeon difficulty and mechanics instead of affixes. this could be amazing
Quazzi the goat. M+ is saved and we're here for it.
They need to make it to where healers are required to heal and do 70% of the highest dps player in the grp. The mandatory healer dps is dumb
I miss the seasonal affixes from BFA that change the way you handle the dungeon somewhat. The bosses that allowed you to do trash skips or bwonsamdis swarm of trash at "X%". Gave a little more variety.
BFA dungeons I liked because I felt they werent overly complicated but the routes werent a given either. Had options on what to pull.
i would say let them do the right thing one by one, removing all the toxic affixes, balance them better and add back some good affixes to make m+ better, thats what they should do in all these years
I have no idea what comments you read, but when I checked wowhead comments, everyone was cursing Blizzard for these affix changes ;p
I have quite a bit of issue with deaths being more punishing in M+.
One of the reasons I stopped doing keys once I got to +20s, was the amount of toxicity that comes with wanting to push higher keys. Having M+ be more punishing increases the likelihood of players shitting on each other for every little mistake made.
I don't think its viable to push +20s with a bunch of strangers without voice comms. in the event u or your mates still get toxicity for every little mistakes made its time to reconsider who are your party members causing it. general context if you make a choice to actively play with elitist who make zero mistakes expect strong feedbacks when mistakes are made. with all these being said the change of increasing death timer is something within player's control which is always a good change when compared to some insane affix like sanguine.
@@SacristScorn I definitely agree with you. I personally think that dungeons being punishing isn't the issue at it's core tbf. I mostly think that M+ score is the bigger issue. I understand that there's a want for a solid way to vet players for groups with higher keys, but that score makes people want to min max their +12. I'd get declined for keys even in the 11-15 range for simply being 1.9k instead of 2k. It's an artificial number that I feel hurts more than it helps. Idk a great way to solve this problem, but I don't like the current system.
Toxic people going to be toxic no matter the key level, no game change will ever fix that unfortunately.
Was my first thought on that death counter increase. That's going to be a toxicity pumping machine. TWW M+ looking pretty grim for puggers
@@MrMadman111 Ok sure, but there are ways to limit that toxicity and not incentivize players to be toxic.
Lets hope, that they tune Bosses better then. Some tyraweeks just felt soo bad compared to Forti
a big win after years. you guys need to push massive feedback like this.
RIP Bolstering and Sanguine, these affixes never bothered me anyway. As a BDK, VDH, and Prot Pali player...honestly...just get better. You can't do the mechanics, you refuse to learn the mechanics, want to stand in 1 spot per pull and piddle yourself, you shouldn't be tanking to begin with. On the highest mobility, lowest mobility, and a mid tier mobility tank, these two affixes were never issues in my runs. Grip, silences, all kinds of ways to deal with them. Bolstering is mainly a timing and dps check anyway, just multi pull and focus targets better so they die within seconds of each other. Stuff like this is a massive reason why I'm leaving, effort and skill don't mean what they used to.
Raging, understandable in some circumstances...but again, get your rotations right. Game is just making it easier for people who don't want to learn to devalue achievements. Massive dislike
I agree that Bolstering and Bursting were overpowered but they could have just lowered the numbers, not remove them;
The only thing that's wrong with Sanguine was that it instantly deals damage when you step on it, instead of dealing damage every seconds;
Raging should have been reworked to work differently. It was too whatever and weak and actually needed buff;
I am really, really concerned about this decision.
Haha mate you are hilarious. Luv the changes but your reaction made me lol.
I think fort/tyrannical need to either not exist, or really need to be changed. Overall great changes, for sure, but tyrannical and fort feel super outdated. Mobs/bosses in high keys already do big damage. Scaling even more of that seems more punishing. Maybe only make certain mobs give like an aura to certain packs that cause it. Maybe yeah, remove either health or damage done from bosses woth tyrannical. Or have them gain tyrannical wheh in execute range, like an enrage.
So far: really good changes. I guess they push portals now to +12 - knowing Blizzard that seems like a logical step for them. Cant give rewards for fun!^^
these changes are great, but I hate that it's literally impossible to get myth track trinkets and apparently they're not changing it. it should be possible to get myth track trinkets (and maybe only trinkets) from 12 and above
Challenger's Peril does nothing but encouraging people to leave a key after a couple of deaths because "RIP key". I'd also argue that the +7 and above bracket is where the majority of the playerbase is found, especially in the PUG environment; with this they're just emphasizing an aspect of the M+ system (the timer) which is already one of the main sources of frustration for many players.
Honestly, git gud. Having farmed 8-10s for multiple seasons it’s really not that hard to … just not die? The mechanics and dmg at that key level is laughable, like you HAVE to be AFK to get one-shot by something. At least now the head empty players carried by ilvl will be hardstuck due to constantly dying. It makes little difference to the rest of us.
@@michiganhughes I get your point and agree to some extent, the change doesn't affect me and probably doesn't affect you from what I read. Mind you when I say +7 I'm referring to the new M+ system, so the equivalent of a previous +17 more or less? In which, especially on S1, some might be still susceptible to random deaths for whatever reason, even one single full group wipe will now amount to 1m15s compared to the 20 seconds we have now and the random sweaty leavers will gorge on that. My point is that I believe there are many other different ways to get players to "git gud" which don't necessarily involve a timer.
@@RiodaC Yes. Deaths shouldn’t be happening on a +7/+17 in the old system to begin with. It’s almost invariably due to standing in something or being extremely undergeared. Missing kicks won’t even cause deaths at +10. Point is, a group that is wiping at that level shouldn’t be playing at that level in the first place. Putting a wall in the form of a timer filters out/forces players to get good.
In each season of DF, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve experienced players leave during a perfectly timable dungeon. It’s not that big of a problem if at all if you know how to pick your groups.
@@michiganhughes😂 tell me you autistic only play WoW with out telling me 😂
lets remove all the affixes and the timer and only add flat 10% hp to the bosses and mobs up untill 15+ yeah actually only 5%hp to bosses because some mobs might ruin the majority of the playerbase
those 15 seconds are going to be all the more frustrating ppl. + they will eat each other over it. hopefully this isn't he endresult.
mage tower like cosmetic rewards !! Please that's what made Legion awesome something to be excited for at the end of our journey!
So good, I am finally so excited for M+. Not enough that they took back their bad decision but replaced it with great ones. Letsgo!!
this is way better than some random hawk tuahs between now and then!!!
This is pretty much exactly what I wanted.
I think this is good not enough variation though, im sorry the content creators are wrong.
Here ya go full argument with a test. Previously Dratnos stated there were 10 times the m+ players as mythic raid. That categorically changes and will no longer be true. The group that suffers will be the ppl that previously farmed 20+. Every week will be the same.
This is a real problem when you consider were the current pull of players that gateways into the best players in the game.
Provided blizzard don't allow another ret pally plauge and keep balance regular then tww will be good.
finally blizzard removes affixes that should've never seen the light of day, wahoo
checks new affix ''if you know raszageth sparks this'll be easy to understand'' uuh marketing bro that aint the wording you want to use
sees new affix which is active in every key above 7, punishes deaths even furter 5 -> 15 seconds off the clock rather than fix some of the terrible runbacks after deaths.... okay thats braindead
new affix, add 20% dmg and health to the ENTIRE dungeon.... uuh
so TL:DR blizzard removed afixed that never should've been in the game in the first place, but in the same change added new uninteractive affixes while still upholding the fort/tyrannical tradition........ lol. lmao even.
that happy face of Quazii makes me also happy :)
This is AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Quazii so much!!
Bravo Blizzard...now move this quickly for PVP feedback.
Respawns should be after killing a boss. Those 5 seconds of lost death time turn into 1-2 min of running on some dungeons. Absolute BS.
In the end this sounds a lot more fun and a lot more fair
Man, from a managerial point of view it's hard to admit that you have to toss worked hours in the trash. They really manned up
7:40 can I dominate mind them and give my group the buff
It's hard to tell, you're playing your cards close to your chest here Quazii, but guys, I think he might possibly be happy with these changes?
😉
Awesome news 🎉
15 sec penalty for dying. Goodbye pugging. One wipe and you’re done
Imagine being on such a ego trip that you still must force affixes after 8 years. Trash not needed
"maybe i'll go play diablo" said noone ever
Transmog sets that start at portal +10 and grant beefier and more epic look and effects of the gear set all the way up to 15 or 18's or so? whatever they decide is the sweet spot to cap out but 100% Xmog and mounts are the way to rope people in!
Sorry. I don't think low keys should be treated differently than high key pushers. I think it's bs. This is completely changing myind on doing mythics at all next expac.
14:45 sounds good balance, but isnt it ultra boring?
Wow amazing unbelievable. All cred to creators like you...
I still find it boring that +12 keys will be same for the entire season. Sure its most effective to push keys. But its also most boring, Zero variation. I always loved affixes that kindof forces you to play different routes and pulls. So you simply cant Copy Paste MDT's and train it
I do not understand much the hype of removing so many affix every patch, I already feel like removing the seasonal was a huge loss, and now even more is removed, it makes the keys a bit boring, what's next, just inflating hp and dmg without any change? cause it just feels like it mixing fortified and tyrannical, no spice. mythic plus becoming like unseasoned food, it was already a bit repetitive at some point, it's gonna be even more.
Thank you quazii
For a second I thought he meant could do m+ with warband a.i like a follower dungeon. Lol 😢
brilliant changes :) GG blizzard, and NO I don't want more rewards beyond M+10 !¨! because then I have to do them higher keys, and I really don't want to do that !! :)
15:45 i woulda crit my pants a lil😅
Evoker tank as a first mail class tank
I really dislike the lower key scale; not enough wiggle room for incremental score increases for the average player, and also makes it way too fast to get KSM and then you feel like you have no reason to play it anymore after 2 weeks unless you want to push rating.
Learn optimize get good and you can have endless increments of score. If you don’t enjoy this maybe m+ is not for you after hitting KSM
@@marcell_22 I am a 2.9k io player... I solo queue only because my IRL friends don't play much. I have been 2.5k+ io just about every season since BFA on various healers and dps... lol the lower key scale does not feel and fulfilling as when KSM required 15s
@@35jdub I would not be against raising the bar for achievements and/or including more tmog/such rewards at lower keys. Also new affixes bring some fun variety to low keys. But what I was trying to suggest is maybe you should try to improve at gameplay / knowledge of your class and dungeon mechanics and as a result of that you can easily get more score than 2.9k even if you solo pug. In this regard m+ can be a source of pretty much endless achievement and fun. Also the higher the keys get the less random shit happens in keys since people play better in general which means less toxic people, fewer leavers, and more of really an enjoyable group effort.
@@marcell_22 The focus the community puts on M+ score makes it more difficult to put your score as a solo player; lets say that I have 2850 score and the only way that I can get it further is by doing 12s. Well, everyone looking for people for 12s might be looking for 2900+ score. I now have no choice but to try and run 11s again and just time them faster than the previous one I have done, in hopes of +2 or +3 the key to edge out a little more score just to be able to get into a 12. Whereas before, I could have gotten into 23s to keep pulling my score up and feel like I'm making good progress before trying a 24. But now we are forced to jump from a 22 to a 24 and not have any ability to make progress in between
All they need is to remove the depletion mechanic. There is zero benefit with this only option to grief and gatekeep players
Great video - subscribed!
Punishing deaths in +7s is bad. You think... it'll train people not to die? You think that people don't already know not to die?
Everything else is fine, but the +7 affix is a hard miss. It's far more punishing than anything in the +5 pool. Plus, like, it's boring. They could've done something a little better. Another kiss/curse mechanic that's just as challenging would've been nice to see instead.
Dude, if they didn't get rid of incorporeal it's a big fail.
Good news! They got rid of incorp ... and replaced it with a NEW version that spawns 20 orbs that need to be CCed or else enemies get 400% haste. Every minute!