Sinking of the Fitzgerald ... Negligence or Nature? Season 3 with Capt. Darrell
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- There is little doubt that the Edmund Fitzgerald was in one of the worst storms to ever hit the Great Lakes, yet other ships weathered the same storm, including the Arthur M. Anderson, the Wilfred Sykes, the Avafors and more. According to Captain Darrell Walton and Captain Dudley Paquette of the Wilfred Sykes (who weathered the same storm) they believed that although the "Mighty Fitz" was in the "storm of the century", negligence played a key factor in the sinking of the 729-ft. ore carrier in Lake Superior just off Whitefish Bay on November 10, 1975. The Fitzgerald was due to go into drydock for badly needed repairs at the end of the 1975 shipping season, but just one more trip was too much for the Mighty Fitz. Based on what we know, what do you think? Please leave your comments below and thanks for your support of the History Mystery Man. #EdmundFitzgerald #LakeSuperior #GreatLakesShipping #GreatLakes
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
It's a shame that after all this time that all involved with this cover up can just please come clean once and for all. This isn't over yet.
The Morrell went down 9 years before the Fitzgerald and divers are going in the engine room. Is it not a grave sight? I totally agree that it is a cover up.
Interesting thoughts; thanks for sharing them here. HMM
They found the remains of one of the crew on the last dive. I suspect that the remains of the rest of the crew are still present and intact; like "Old Whitey" on the wreck of the SS Kamloops.
Probably so...thanks. @@stevesestrich5143
I believe almost all the bodies of the Morrell crew were recovered and also the engine room sank right side up with that wreck whereas Fitzgerald’s engine room landed upside down into the sediment of the lake bed
She was owned by an insurance company
The story never gets old. Thank you both.
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for giving me the song name I'm having trouble finding it on the internet but I tell you this I'm in illinois and when I hear it it makes me want to apply for a job in a ship yard or work for a boat shipping company an set sail for a adventure any help sourcing where I can find it is appreciated thanks again and peace ✌️ and much respect to you Jason
@HistoryMysteryMan till then I'll keep watching the video for this truly awesome sounding song
Captain Darrell is truly awesome and you can tell he's well seasoned and knows what he's talking about any one talking bad about him is purely a looser and probably not grown up take care history mystery man 😉
Huge Lincoln fan here...I love Illnois, most parts anyway. I've spent a lot of time chasing Lincoln in Illinois over the years.@@jasonhumphry5836
A reverent and yet somber and sober discussion of an horrific event, one that should not have happened. If not for Gordon Lightfoot I'd have never remembered it. His haunting song still plays in my head and wounds my heart. Thanks for this thoughtful and sad video. History should never forget the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Thanks...so appreciated. It certainly is a sad and haunting song, yet the song is also the reason the story is known around the world...and kept alive as a result. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Great video HMM!
Keep on this story, Captain Darrell is right, there's a cover up.
Keep digging on this story.
There has to be someone out there that knows something or there's a paper trail.
Those men on the Fitz deserve these answer on this tragic accident.
Thanks again, Roger. Darrell just keeps digging up new stuff on the Fitz...like the hatch covers not fitting from all the twisting and turning. I had never even considered that. HMM
There is no cover up.
We may never know for sure...thanks.@@stevebeckerman4214
@@HistoryMysteryMan Even if she was overloaded, even if she grounded, it was the weather. If there was no weather that night, no loss of the vessel.
Interesting perspective...thanks.@@stevebeckerman4214
Man I love when you share these ! I say both, I’m sticking with my original analogy. Overloaded, grounded on the shoals , took in water which is why fence rails were down and she was listing. With water in the bow when the three sisters waves lifted her stern in drove her bow straight down into the bottom which the impact broke her in half, that is why the bow is sitting upright and the stern flipped and landed upside down !
Your analysis makes sense to me; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Stop by anytime...HMM
Does it matter anymore how/why the Fitz went down? I think so. The truth is always worth knowing for the lessons it teaches - and perhaps for justice to be delivered. A final dive with modern equipment and legitimate aims could be carried out with due respect given to those who lost their lives. I guess it would be very difficult however to get consensus from the families and that also matters. A fascinating discussion as always - with thanks.
Interesting thoughts filmchick; thanks for sharing them here. HMM
Been doing this for years. Every November 10 I listen to The wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald at the exact time when she sank to pay tribute to the 29 souls lost on that fateful night.
Man I love that! And of course, I do the same thing...thanks! HMM
A lot of us do the exact same 👍
When the Anderson and her current crew went through the locks and gave, I think, what is called the "Masters Salute" in remembrance of the Fitzgerald and her crew of 29 Men it gives you chills/goosbumps (such a haunting sound) - it's good that they are remembered and is only right that they do so; that was the 10th of November a few years back and the weather was similar to the weather on that fateful day.🚢🌹🕊
That's awesome! I didn't know that the Anderson did that. So much respect...thanks. HMM@@gilliankingston8259
@@HistoryMysteryManYes, I have it saved on my phone, it was 10th November, 2020 - footage from the Duluth Harbour Cam on TH-cam of the Arthur M Anderson coming into Harbour and remembering/respecting the Edmund Fitgerald and her crew of 29 Men with the "Masters Salute", a fitting tribute to them🚢📢🕊🌹
Quite obviously - this is a CG cover-up to save the owners having to pay out huge compensation settlements to the EF families. What other ship at the bottom has a law preventing further investigative clarification and discovery?? Thanks HMM and Captain Daryl. 💯🌺🙏❤️
You're welcome LadyOaks! Thanks for watching...HMM
On November 10th at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum the annual memorial service for the Edmund Fitzgerald will take place starting at 7 P.M. EST
Awesome...thanks for sharing that here! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan, there be a live web cast of the memorial service. The link should be posted on the Shipwreck Museum's website on Monday of this coming week.
Thanks! I had no idea. @@WIJoe1
@HistoryMysteryMan do. You know if. They put. The ringing of the edmund fitzgerald bell up on TH-cam
I'll see if I can find out...thanks. HMM@@matthewmcnulty698
history mystery man its that time of year again and your back with more fitz videos love it
You know it! Thanks for watching...HMM
So cool to hear it firsthand from someone directly related to the situation and who is knowledgeable on everything. If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that when there’s a disaster like the Fitz, if there’s big money at stake, you can bet the lawyers are gonna get involved, and the story will get sorted out how ever they need it to to protect the company. It’s always a “good ol’ boys” club. Nice to get the inside scoop. 👍👍
Super interesting thoughts Matthew; thanks for sharing them here! Stop by anytime...HMM
Always interesting to have Captain Darrell and yourself sitting there hashing things out.
Thanks again!
We are only given the story they want put out. Wether it concerns government or big business. Greed is the cause of most disasters.
Interesting commentary, Robert; thanks again for sharing it here. Greed and disaster seem to work hand in hand. #JohnstownFlood
Outstanding, as always….. I do feel that so much had been suppressed in regards to what happened that day leading up to the Fitzgerald’s sinking. Having the privilege of listening to Capt. Walton and yourself conversing is something I look forward to….hoping there will be another installment come next week. Thank you once again, Don…..Chris Stewart
To add, I agree that the ship is certainly a gravesite for the crew and shouldn’t be plundered….however, I also believe that the pursuit of truth has no expiration date. By all means, allow for a THOROUGH examination of the wreck site in it’s entirety with the help of modern technology, up to and including the recovery and restoration/examination of the ship’s log book)s). It HONORS the 29 men who lost their lives that night to not only find, but reveal the answers.
The wreck is too damaged for
Any kind of information to be found. The evidence needed is somewhere in that debris field or buried 15 feet into the bottom
Thanks again, bowslap...super interesting commentary you've shared here. If we could explore the Fitz with the assurance that no crew members would be disturbed, I'm in. HMM
This is a good point luketdrifter. It makes sense that if the ship went aground it was at the part of the ship that's now disintegrated, being weakened as it must have been.
@@HistoryMysteryMan a possibility could be 3D imaging of the entirety of the wrecksite, which has been done/is in the process of being done of the wrecksite of the RMS Titanic. It would present a far greater picture of what/where, without disturbing the ship. The only invasive activity I would support would be that of procuring the ship’s log book if it still exists in the debris of the chart room.
Man I like the way you think. Thanks again...HMM@@bowslap
Makes perfct sense - overloaded, badly maintained ship in a bad storm. Just a matter of time
He's exactly right. The Fitzgerald had no chance of survival. Overloaded. Fence rail down as well. That tells me that the Big Fitz was flexing way too much in the storm. The hull was already compromised. Those hatch covers were leaking like a siv. 2 blown vents tells me that she was taking in a lot of water.
i have the attentiton span of a gnat....HOWEVER....I was GLUED to this conversation. Well done. Very natural and both partites engaged. Polite on both sides too...nobody trying to bully or be the alpha. This worked! Awesome.
Thanks Alex...some of the nicest compliments I've ever received on my channel...so appreciated. Helps inspire me to keep going. Great feedback! HMM
Great to see this thank you ! Could listen to Captain Darrell for days and never tire of it
You and me both, brother! Thanks for watching/listening...HMM
I find Captain Cooper's thoughts regarding what caused the Fitzgerald to sink far more believable than the Coast Guard report. He was on the radio with Captain McSorley, who was reporting damage shortly after the Fitzgerald passed near Michipicoten Island. McSorley's own words tell the tale.... “Anderson, this is the Fitzgerald. I have a fence rail down, two vents lost or damaged, and a list. I’m checking down. Will you stay by me till I get to Whitefish?”
Amen lonewolf9390. Couldn’t agree more. The suits knew damn well what happened, yet there was no way any of them were going to admit their responsibility. No survivors, so place fault on the crew and contrive the story of the crew’s complacency.
Interesting commentary; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
@@jeffbranchick1516 ok but if the ship grounded on the shoal how is that the suits fault? That’s either the hand of God or faulty navigation on the part of the master leading to damage that was not reasonably survivable. Either way that’s the outcome the suits are looking for because it’s not their fault period.
Agreed! He knows what he is talking about
@@jetdriver Well, it's rather interesting that the Coast Guard did an underwater survey a year or so after the Fitzgerald sank, and very quietly updated all the navigational charts when it was discovered that Six Fathom Sholes extended about 1.5 miles further out than what the previous charts indicated.
You should do more videos with Capt Darrell I could listen to him talk for hours ! Great video
We have 11 other videos already on You Tube. Let us know what you think!
@@darrellwalton938 I have watched them all several times. I really enjoy listening to you explain things about the ships. Thank you for taking the time to appear in the videos and sharing your insights always interesting.
Thanks for your support oldmanonthehill8858! HMM
Thanks so much for having Captain Darrell on for more interviews. He is a Treasure, a wealth of information. I could listen to his stories for hours.
He hit so many salient points about the hatches and the condition of the wreckage. I believe they concocted the coadt guard story to avoid massive lawsuits. They at the time believed the wreckage would never be scrutinized, as there wasn't the technology to do so at the time. The fact that no diving is allowed is a direct effort to suppress any further evidence being discovered. There are hundreds of ships in the Great Lakes where crew are interred and diving and filming occurs often.
Thanks again for sharing these interviews. Captain Darrell is a Treasure and i so appreciate him giving his time and knowledge to these videos. ❤
Capt. Darrell is amazing for sure. Beyond his knowledge, he's a great story teller, which is a craft that few possess today. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, sir...and thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
This is the reason they brought up the Hatch clamps ,,so they could blame worker negligence
Hi WATCHER! Fancy seeing you here, LOL. I love this Capt Darrell !!
@@LisaHouserman captain Darrell is Wonderful glad you enjoy the videos 💖
YEA
Thanksgiving used to be the only thing November represented to me… Now (and since I became an adult and learned about the Edmund Fitzgerald) it represents the greatest accounts ever recorded of what most likely happened to this legendary ship. The History Mystery man and Capt. Darrell have brought this captivating story to life like no one else, and I long for the gales of November to come calling, so that more tales of the greatest ship to ever sail the Great Lakes will soon follow…
Thanks Todd...love your commentary! Thanks for sharing it here...and we certainly appreciate your support and kind words. The month of November means much more than the holiday...and thanks for pointing that out. HMM
Hello Don, hope this finds you well.
We find ourselves once again at the opening of November and yet another haunting anniversary of remembering the Fitz and her crew, as well as my recollections of Bruce Hudson and growing up on Burns Rd back then.
I offer my highest regards for your investigative passion on this topic, it’s historic relevance and the reverent respect her memory has generated.
We also lost Gordon Lightfoot, who’s ballad was certainly a major ingredient in bringing the demise of the Fitz and her crew to prominence.
This is truly one of those stories that will never get old in the retelling or the imagination.
It’s phenomenal that you have had the privilege to interview Capt. Darrell and receive such in depth, inside info that most certainly may not have had the chance to be heard by a wider audience.
I applaud your efforts sir. Take care.
Thanks again, Jeff...so glad you're back! We appreciate your kind words. I find it so interesting that you knew Bruce. If you have any ideas on how we could honor him going forward, let me know. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Much thnx for your kind reply Don. If I think of something, I’ll certainly be in touch.
I have always believed what Captain Cooper (RIP) thought, as to what exactly happened. It is very interesting to hear/learn further information as told by Captain Walton. I would love to meet him & listen to his "experience & knowledge"! Thank you Sir and, Thank you HMM!!
You're welcome RAV1953...thanks again. HMM
I would hope that if anyone with first hand knowledge and alive, can shed some light on the Fitzgerald's sinking. Please speak up, and let the weight of any untold information set you free. I believe the official storyline as it stands, is too perfect. I believe the truth is still out there.
The bow in American waters and the stern in Canadian waters. Wow! I love to listen to these two talk!!
Thanks for watching! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan Well, the pleasure is mine - truly. I'm learning so much inside knowledge from the two of you. I really do appreciate the effort put into the presentations. You also help to keep the memory of this tragedy alive for everyone. It seems now that people are becoming more complacent with their confidence in modern technology, and they forget (if they ever knew) just how horrific and deadly the Witch of November can be. Not to be a pessimist, or macabre, but it seems that nature has to teach us a lesson ever so often, but the targeted audience ( the greedy corporations), are the first to forget, and the last to accept responsibility.
Interesting stuff. Gotta wonder why we have keep learning the hard way. Thanks again...stop by anytime. HMM@gayprepperz6862
@@HistoryMysteryManIf you haven't already done so, I highly recommend that you download the transcript from the bridge audio recorder aboard the El Faro.
Is that just a Google thing? Thanks...HMM@@spaceflight1019
Thanks for the interview, it brings back some memories… I was at home in the Soo with the power out in that storm listening to my Radio Shack VHF and came across the Coast Guard calling the Fitzgerald over and over. I was too far away to hear if there was a reply. It wasn’t until the next day we heard the news and I understood there was never a reply. RIP to the captain and crew.
Amazing story; thanks for sharing it here. This is, in part, why I make these movies...to hear all the interesting stories that come back to me. I'll be visiting the Soo in '24. Thanks for watching...HMM
Capt Walton What Do You Think The Reasons Why They Scrapped The Sister Ship The Bethy Steel Arthur B Homer?? Why Did They Not Let The Coast Guard On To Take A Ride??? I And Im Sure Others Would Like To See The Scrap Pix Of The Homer
It’s not really a sister ship. Built differently I’ve read a few things on it. No conspiracy.
I could listen to y’all talk all day. You could do a hundred more episodes and not keep the fascination over the Fitz (and other wrecks!) sated. Thank you for keeping us thinking outside of the box on the official story.
You're always welcome...thanks for your support! HMM
Their is no mystery on the Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm. That boat hit bottom so hard that it's buried around 20 feet into the lake bottom
What a wonderful and knowledgeable man, great video, keep it up and I can't wait for the next video.
Thanks Riley; we appreciate you! HMM
Who better to cover the History and Mystery of the Edmund Fitzgerald than the History Mystery Man himself. Thanks Don and Darrell keep on seeking the truth guys. ✌️ Brian
Thanks again Brian...good to hear from you again. HMM
Only a couple/few years ago my wife and I were watching lakers on the St.Clair River when the Anderson chugged right on by. I was blown away! I had assumed that the Anderson was too old to be sailing anymore and had been scrapped a long time ago. I got excited and pointed her out to my wife and told her how that was the last ship to see the Fitz ever. I've loved these lakers since I was a teen, through my decade of Navy service, and still now. So glad to see the Anderson is still with us. If anyone who reads this can help this Navy sailor get underway with a Laker, you'd have my eternal gratitude!
Thanks for your service...a Veterans Day salute for you! The Anderson lives...HMM
What a wonderful, knowledgeable man.
Capt. Darrell is a rockstar! Thanks Susie...HMM
Another great video, thank you!!
You're welcome; thanks for watching...HMM
I remember growing up South of Toledo ( born in 1970). My dads cousin, a Marine who served in Vietnam, had a 35 ft boat docked at Bayview Yacht Club. I remember all our families cruising by the lake freighters. They were huge. The summer of 1975, we were all on his boat when we cruised by one of the biggest lake freighters heading out of Toledo. I cant remember exactly what was said ( i was only five yrs old)..i swear my dads cousin said it was the "Fritz". He had a signed book named "The Gales of November " ...i dont remember the author or what ever happened to the book. Dads cousin passed away back in 2018 down in Fort Myers Florida. To this day, i dont know if it was the Fritz we passed. All i remember he saying it was the biggest lake freighter on the Great Lakes.
Wow...super cool stories, David! Thanks for sharing them here. It's amazing how enormous the Lake Freighters are, especially when you're staring up at them from a much smaller boat. In regards to any port, the Mighty Fitz spent more time in Toledo than anywhere else, so it's very likely you were looking at the infamous "Toledo Express". Thanks for watching! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan your welcome. I enjoy your history and when you speak with the former Captain on your podcasts. I will have to ask family if they still have the pictures they had taken when we were out on my cousins boat. I'm sure back in the day, they took plenty of pics. What's really ironic, the Fitzgerald sank on the Marine Corps birthday. The cousin inspired me to go into the Marines after I was in college in Toledo ( Comtech). My dads cousin worked for GE as a engineer in Toledo ( I think for 25+ years) before they were bought out. I remember him teaching me how to navigate his boat ( when I reached my early teens), to Boblo Island and Cedar Point. Great memories.
Thanks again, David. I'm Toledo born and bred...love my hometown. If you come up with any pics, I'd love to see them! @@davidjames7382
@@HistoryMysteryMan can I say I used to work at Tony Packos on Front Street? My hometown was Rossford. My grandfather worked for LOF for 30 years.
Awesome! I'm a frequent flyer at Tony Packos on Front Street...thanks! HMM@@davidjames7382
The photo shown at 4:11 is the only one that I’VE seen of the Fitz that displays her true scale, and my God was she enormous, and just to think that Superior had her way with the Fitz as if she were a plastic toy in a bathtub; wow.
I just found this channel and wow this is great. Learning a lot about the Fitzgerald and Morrell. I had the privilege to meet Dennis Hale and read his book. What a good man and his story and experience is amazing. Capt Darrell is great, he knows his stuff. Thank you
Thanks for finding us...so appreciated! Stop by anytime...HMM
Hello again gentlemen, it's that time again. In my humble opinion this set of videos have rapidly become the most comprehensive investigation into the Fitz tragedy on TH-cam, or anywhere else for that matter. Thankyou both for your efforts, and for sharing them with us all. Top shelf.💪
Thanks John...so appreciated! HMM
Love these vids! Great work guy's, keep 'em coming!
You got it! Thanks for watching...HMM
Great stuff! Always good to hear from Captain Walton!
It's too bad you can't time travel back and get a birds eye view, such as a drone camera, and see what truly happened to Big Fitz as well as the Bradley and Morrell. Little less of a mystery about what happened to the latter two, but still.
Interesting. And...a drone with video coverage would be the only thing to solve it...something we'll never have. Thanks for watching. HMM
These vids with Capt Darrell are awesome! Cool footage w Harry Reasoner as well. I was 7 and living right across from Fraser Shipyards in Superior WI in 75. The Fitz was pretty much all we kids talked about for the rest of the year. I remember mom calling some of her friends
Thanks...that's a very cool memory you shared here. And thanks for watching...HMM
Good to see you and Captn Darrell back on watch
Great to be back! Thanks MaddTrapper...HMM
What a wealth of knowledge Captain Darrell is! Thanks for posting HMM
You're welcome Jody...thanks! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan You're very welcome, as always sir!
Great job boys enjoy the new information and great job at the end honoring all those men who perished
Thanks Mike...so appreciated. HMM
So why would they still be concerned about liability if Colombia Transportation is long gone? I think it's pretty obvious why they're still worried about liability, and IMO it has nothing do with a shipping company (and it never did). The Coast Guard's report on the Fitz magically absolved all related parties of any liability - yet who was responsible for setting the load lines on the Fitz and who was responsible for the antiquated charts that showed the shoal at Caribou Island being much smaller than it actually was? They weren't protecting the shipping company - they were protecting the Coast Guard. And maybe that's why they don't want anybody diving on the Fitz, because the upside-down stern plainly shows patent evidence of bottoming out at Caribou? Everything from that night indicates that the Fitz indeed bottomed out at Caribou.
Good questions...wish I could answer them. And remember, there is a huge center section of the ship that is completely disintegrated when it broke in two. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Does anyone happen to know the celtic song at the beginning of the video?Litterally gave me chills.
Good video btw
I'd love a download of it
@@Peter.w as would would I
History mystery man one thing that haunts me about the story of the mighty big Fitzgerald is how could this mighty ship founder with all hands its just a sad story but I'm so thankful you and Mr walton keep the crew and great ship alive even Mr waltons brother i always wonder to this day if that tragedy didnt happened if the Fitzgerald would still be out there with the anderson after they made repairs thank you for doing these video's
Thanks again, AJ. I really do believe the Mighty Fitz would still be out there. Like Darrell said, she was going to drydock that winter to be lengthened and for repairs. Columbia Transport still had big plans for her. The Wilfred Sykes is still in service, and she was launched before the Fitz. HMM
I always knew that Columbia transportation company was hiding something!
Great story it opened up some new doors for me!
I read in one of the books I used to own or maybe heard that the chief engineer was worried that it wouldn't pass inspection on that final trip got it through inspection !
On Fred Shannon video Red Bergener even said him and couple other crew members slept on the fantail because they were in fear the Fitz was going to sink because the way Mcsorely had drove her and wouldn't drop anchor
Interesting stuff Robert...thanks. That part about sleeping on the fantail...man that's off the charts.@@RobertSchildt-vt8yw
@@HistoryMysteryMan no she would have not been there her sister Ship Arthur b homer Was Lengthened it was Scraped in 1986 both ships were said to have big problems
May all the crew of the Edmond Fritzgerald rest in peace. God bless them all.
I second that prayer...thanks Darryl. HMM
Some amazing thoughts and points of view, I always enjoy listening to your videos, thank you fellas!
You're always welcome Daniel...thanks again! HMM
I concur with Capt. Dudley J. Paquette: " I don't know what you call it, but the word that still comes to my mind 25 years after that ship sank is: Negligence!" AB Unl -Wheelsman (ret)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. A wheelsman? I'll be you have some great stories to share! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Yes! Best job in the World! Great Freedom with some Great People!
I still cant belive the Fed Gov Were such wimps , the Fed gov should have talk to Capt Dudley Paquette
Money over men, seems to be the company motto at that time!
Sadly, it still is
@@yankeeclipper4326 doesn't surprise me!
Amazing series! This is turning you into an investigative journalist! There's gotta be something to that engineer of the Anderson being restricted from talking. Did he sign an NDA? And if he did, why?? Who made him sign it? Very interesting 🤔 great job!
He was probably offered some cash to sign an NDA and warned about the legal & financial ramifications of breaching that NDA
Thanks sir...we appreciate your support. HMM
History Mystery Man you and I discussed this a bit the comment thread of a video you made on this in what I’d call season one. My comment dates to Nov 2021.
I that thread I argued for the hatch cover failure theory based on the NTSB report.
But let’s examine this another way. If we accept that there are forces seeking to cover up what happened to the Fitz we have to ask why. The answer of course is that they bear liability for her loss.
Of course if your the corporate type it’s far easier to cover up any hint you might be liable even if your not. But if they think they are liable the question is of course why.
Which returns me to theories as to why she was lost. If she grounds in shoal water and that grounding ultimately led to her loss then there is little risk of her owners or other interested powers in the Great Lakes being held to account.
On the other hand if the reason for her loss was primarily attributable to hatch covers that were not water tight that’s a different story. Because all that water coming over the deck is down flooding into her holds and being absorbed by her cargo leading to her riding lower and lower in the water. That she was overloaded and suffering from structural issues as was covered in the video only made her hatch seals worse.
This goes on with the Fitz getting lower and lower in the water until finally she is boarded by a large wave that causes hydrostatic failure of her forward hatch covers (the possibility of which was firmly established in the NTSB report) and the sudden rush of water into the forward holds drives her down by the head.
When the bow impacts the bottom the shock causes structural failure leading to the separation of the stern and the wreck as we know it today.
If we accept that scenario as true then the ships owners and others are indeed liable for her loss. Liable because they allowed her to be dangerously overloaded in the name of profit. Liable because they knew full well her hatch covers were not watertight and would not withstand a boarding sea. Liable because her design allowed her to flex excessively and had too little subdivision to deal with flooding.
Don’t forget too in this scenario the Coast Guard and other marine certification authorities also come off poorly because they allowed a ship to be designed and maintained in a fashion that was guaranteed to result in her not being seaworthy.
Finally bear in mind that simple structural failure doesn’t account for her loss. That has happened numerous times before both on the Great Lakes and at sea. And in those cases we have chunks of ship that remain afloat for a period of time sometimes hours. Structural failure doesn’t generally lead to the sort of near instant sinking that was suffered by the Fitz.
But if she was breaking in two...that would equate to a major structural failure in my mind which could result in immediate sinking. And...she only had three cargo holds separated by screen bulkheads. She was weak in that regard and rode to death for decades. Thanks for sharing your thoughts...I appreciate all the time you put into your analysis...and it does have me thinking newly as a result of your analysis. Excellent commentary...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for responding.
My issue with a massive structural failure is that when that happens the sinking is usually slow enough to get a distress call out. Also if she broke in two on the surface her wreck would look different.
The bow looks very much like a ship that went down by the head and impacted the bottom. It doesn’t look like a ship that broke in two on the surface which would lead to her sinking from the middle first. Also if she broke in two and flooded from the middle I’d expect a pile of ore on the bottom as both ends spit out their cargos. Her hatch covers also would not likely have imploded as the air pressure under them as the ship flooded would have supported them.
The more I come back to this the more ai find that the one majorly theory about her loss that doesn’t have major problems is the one advocated by the NTSB.
Again...super interesting. Now you have me thinking, re-evaluating, etc. Thanks for your thoughts on the Fitz.@@jetdriver
@@jetdriver There is video shot from a Coast Guard helocopter, (in radio contact with the bridge of a very large ocean going frieghter), as it hits a large wave. The ship was intact as the bow hit the wave then instead of riding up, it dove into it. The screams of the crew can be heard in the video as the ship is consumed in seconds by the ocean, the entire crew died. I tried to find a link to this incident but unfortuately no luck.
@@brianlangum6253 I’ve heard of this story and while I don’t remember the name of the ship it was included at the time. I’ve been forced to decide it’s false. The ship listed in the original telling of the story didn’t sink as described nor can I find a record a similar sinking.
Not to mention that video of such an incident would doubtless be all over the internet and yet it doesn’t exist.
That being said such a scenario if it was true would serve to basically support the NTSBs conclusion as to how the ship was lost.
Thanks much 4 these videos great stuff
You're welcome; thanks for watching! HMM
There is a video here on youtube with an Anderson crew member who was on the bridge of the Anderson that night. I cant post the link for some reason but it is still on. It is unknown whether he is still alive, or willing to talk about it.
Thanks Mike. I have seen that video, but I'm having trouble finding it now. Love to watch it again. HMM
(The Edmund Fitzgerald: A 40 Year Legend )
A very Interesting and more believable account of the sinking. The company didn't want anyone diving on it because they were afraid they would be sued when more info was leaked. A measly $ 600.00 to surviving family members was pittence. That company should look to reimburse them still (that is, if the company is still in bus.)
Columbia Transportation is no longer in the Great Lakes shipping business...thanks. HMM
Great story. Great stuff.
So many thanks! HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for covering this. I am from Toledo , kinda hits home. I have always wondered why as well.
You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM@@towdjumper5
hi don today Marks the 48th year of the fitz sinking and the 29 passing Say a prayer and they Will always be remembered and nevera forgitton sail te men Sail always bring us Home safely lord to our loved ones and to the ships sailing on this day remember all those who have fallen and perished on these lakes and as long as we all remember them they all are still Alice and sailing and a special thank You to those delivering what we need and must have For our everyday lifes may god bless and keep You all safe and sound amen and thank You Don For keeping them all Alive and remembering and thank You For the great videos your a special person to be commended For such a great Chanel and a great human being and a special thank You to capt darrell Walton keep him and his family safe as well You both are a National monumental treasure of información wealth of knowledge and i thank You both For your years of service to our country and god bless You always amen
10-4...got that fixed. Thanks for your sharing your thoughts here; I appreciate the way you put it all out there. Thanks again, Mark. HMM
Wasn't there a video of someone I cannot remember who that found evidence of a grounding on the shoal? I vaguely remember watching something like that
Me too.
There are people out there who have stated that...yes. Thanks...HMM
I even think they found iron ore pellets in the area too. I wish I could remember who made that video
Let me know if you find it...@@kurtfromm9126
A video with the good captain today is a good day.
I'll buy that! Thanks for watching...HMM
Definitely due to human error
Thanks for your input...HMM
Thanks HMM and Capt. Darrell for another great video!
You're always welcome! Thanks again, critterscute3642...HMM
Captain Jimmy hobagh of the coast guard wasa wealth of information and a real gentlemen who really felt the pain and was still tied to those people until his passing as they had nothing not a thing to bring back to give to the families as a form of closure but in 95 when the bell was raised and rang that signified saying we still here but don if you look in this video of the diver in the newt suit at the pilot house it makes me wonder if he found mcsorleys book as the pilot house door being open hmm it just makes one think he's right there and it doesn't take much to go in and snoop around and get the ledger aha log book unless he was given stricken orders to keep out that book alone tells not only the story of what was going on what went during and also before she went down that book is the smoking gun we need to solve this mystery but a million dollar fine and prison is the thing that will always be a mystery as a certain someone or group doesn't want anyone to find out the real truth there were and are some who know the truth but won't come forward and talk for fear of being threatened as I think is the absolute fact as I heard Darrell talking about the engineer when the Anderson got in to whitefish the authorities I'll bet you as well as corperate and company brass most likely threatened there jobs and or possibly there families if the were to ever talk ofr speak about it very strange to me 14 yrs later and a engineer loses it stating he can't say anything else makes really wonder what happened when the Anderson docked in the bay whatever it was it wasn't good my belief is that they were threatened and if they were to talk that something in a financial penalty or fatality could have been enforced to hide and conceal the truth about the definite exact cause of the sinking
I'm not sure the Newt Suit would have fit through the Pilot House door. However, two ex Navy divers used a "Tri-Mix" Scuba outfit and dove freestyle on the Fitz. They had 15 minutes bottom time. If anyone could have grabbed the Logbook, it could have been them.
I've heard from this guy on video before and respect his view, along with Capt. Cooper. Rip.
Thanks Johnny...appreciate your thoughts. HMM
Ive said it a million times and I'll say it again. The Fitzgerald was going down by the head, slowly since the mid afternoon when it was still daylight. The crew reported the fence rail down around this time, at which the keel buckled and caused the major hogging exposing the forward 3rd of the hull bottom to the open sea. It was a structural failure. It was wounded at this point. If somehow any hatches caved it, it would've been near the forward end of the ship, hence the bow slowly going down. Don’t you think the pilothouse crew would've noticed a 65×11 hatch cover missing? I mean they noticed the fence rail and tank vent damage? You all have to stop believing the decades old ruse by the Coastguard report. Of course they needed an excuse to blame the crew; after all, they are the one's who signed off on their last safety inspection!
Super interesting commentary! Thanks for sharing it here. You ask hard questions that deserve answers. I only wish I had them. Thanks Scott...so appreciated. HMM
They didn't say the hatch cover was missing. When the "Three Sisters Waves" hit her, that is when the I'll fitting hatch cover gave way. To many Kestner clamps were not even damaged, because they couldn't "Dog" them down. Thanks for watching.
Thanks again Gentlemen! Having me a cup of coffee and a cigar here in my mancave while I listen.
Man I love that! A cigar with coffee in a mancave. Rock on Ron! HMM
A very good friend of mine passed away 10 years ago he was a chief engineer on the boats. He had opinions on the Fitzgerald , most of it was that they had welded a narrow steel reinforcement to the ship the full length of the hull and it was supposed to increase the capacity. I have no idea if he was correct but my great uncle died on that ship
That's super interesting...I'll have to dig into that...thanks! HMM
You guys are great 👍 so much info . Love how you mentioned the fence rail. I've thought that myself was bending and heaving. The structural integrity being compromised is hint enough that the bottom had damage.
Thanks Paul; your commentary makes sense to me...thanks for sharing it here. HMM
I remember reading something about since the water was so high they had it loaded down 3ft deeper in the water than what it usually sat that time of year. If that is true, it seems to me they were just inviting disaster.
Don, after watching this ....I've completely decided to visit Whitefish Bay next year! Great video. Just watched it again.
You and me both brother. I had planned to go this year but it didn't work out. No more excuses...I'm going next year.
What’s the first Celtic song used in this? It sounds so familiar but I cant place the title.
LOVE CAPT. DARRELL
Gotta love Capt. Darrell! HMM
The company and McSorley applied to the Coast Guard to increase the loading of the FG in the November part of the season. The original November loading was lighter to give the FG more free board for the November storms on the lakes. The company and McSorley wanted to carry more cargo for an increase in the yearly profits. As for the railing and the vent covers they were removed and damaged about the same area where the spare propeller was stored between the hatch covers on the deck. That propeller could have broken loose when a large wave slammed into the deck and thrown it over the side. That season was near an end and the FG was supposed to go into dry dock for the winter to reinforce the hull with a bunch of additional support beams and bulk head stiffeners. There was a picture of all of that steel sitting in the ship yard waiting for the FG and her sister ship to be modified. FG never made it but her sister ship the Auther B Homer was modified.
Super interesting commentary and info. I've heard that the steel they were going to outfit the Fitz with is still out there...at least some of it. This would be a story in itself...thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Sounds like they don’t want people investigating the accident, very similar situation to what happened here in West Virginia in 1969 at the Farmington No. 9 mine explosion. A lot of men were killed in the fires afterwards and to contain the fire the decision was made to seal up all air shafts to smother the fire. 5 years later they crack it open again and start retrieving bodies but as soon as the mine rescuers start noticing all the signs of negligence on behalf of Consolidated Coal the mine owner- operator. They shut down the recovery operation and left 17 bodies in there, still unaccounted.
Seems like for the Fitz they are using the emotions of it being a grave site to cover up the cause of the sinking.
Super interesting commentary/analogy; thanks for sharing it here. I never knew about this mining disaster...I'm going to check it out. HMM
Check the charts for the vicinity of Michipicoten before and after the loss. Note the differences......
as a kiwi (from New Zealand) I'm still amazed of just a fresh water lake, that big ! we can drive to the opposite side of the country and see two different oceans within hours but it seems crazy to me that these ships are on lakes!
Great to hear from you...all the way from NZ! The Great Lakes are amazing! HMM
It’d be interesting to see if there ARE any remaining members of the Anderson who’d be willing to talk, or Mr Orgel. There are so many questions, and it does appear to be a coverup to deny company negligence. I’d be interested in hearing if Mr Shannon cooperates some of the things that Mr Walton says about the dings in the bottom, etc. He also brings up a valid point about the log book, which he brought up in one of your prior videos.
And you bring up validity as well as far as “does it matter anymore.” It has been closing in on 50 years. It won’t bring anymore closure to those who’d lost so much. Yet it would shine a light onto those who could have prevented the tragedy in the first place and didn’t. Obviously the Coast Guard was I’ll equipped to deal with something like this happening, much less changing load lines on the boats, etc etc etc…. (Wonder who greased their pockets to get some regulations changed, much less let a vessel go out which had issues one would consider safety hazards?)
I’ve been watching along with every video you make that has both Mr Waltons on them.
Both Orgel and Fred Shannon have sadly already passed away, as well as Red Bergner, who was the cook on the Fitz for 10 years, and was not on the Fitz that night due to health issues.
Interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here...and thanks for the info on Shannon and Orgel. HMM
Another great vid from you guys. I commented in the first part of this 2023 series on the book with Capt Paquettes perspective. A very good read into that night, one that gives a pretty good detail of what was going on weather wise November 10 1975. The name of the book is 'The Night The Fitz Went Down", by Hugh E. Bishop. I highly recommend it.
The Sykes loaded next to the Fitz that day, and they watched her head out the Superior entrance on the final voyage. I belive the Sykes departed a couple hours later. She actually anchored in Thunder Bay the first part of the storm. Paquette was the weatherman of the Inland fleet, and knew what he waa going to be up against. My only add to that was he himself under estimated the intensity and duration. Again, definitely a good read if youre interested in the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Thanks again for another fantastic vid from you and the Captain
Our video from two days ago, "Season 3" gives a lot of info of the "Sykes" and her Captain. It's a great video!
Yes it is a great video, you guys always do an excellent job. As you both mentioned Capt Paquette in the videos, I thought I would post the book title if your viewers were interested in checking out his account of that night. They were hearing parts of conversations between Cooper and McSorely throughout that voyage over the radio, and it is quite interesting some of the opinions he puts forth.
My mom's cousin probably knew your dad, as he spent a lot of time on the Reserve in the 70s
You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to check it out! HMM
Weird 14yrs after it went down he couldn't talk about it 😢 pretty much tells you everything you need to know 😢
Another fine interview Don, and also thanks to Darl for his time. Would sit listening to you guys at a bar all night
Let's do it! Thanks again, William. HMM
The bottoming out theory has always been my guess. All of the facts add up to it. It’s nice to see someone explain all of this in detail. Plus the added facts that the Coast Guard NEVER SEEMED TO MENTION. Everyone knew that their theory about the hatch covers was BS. But what do seasoned sailors and Captain’s know ??!! The supposed investigative panel at the time simply wanted to be done with it. Thank You for a great video. I also pray that they leave their gravesite alone now.
Thanks Jeff...so appreciated. I suspect the Mighty Fitz and crew will remain undisturbed, even as bad as we want answers. HMM
Love these videos and interviews with Captain Darrell. I will have to ask my uncle who lives in Superior but he is friends with an older fella that was either on the Anderson or the other shop that was holed up behind Isle Royale that night of the storm. I will see if I can contact him and let you know
Thanks Gerald. Yes please...if you find someone who was on the Anderson, let me know. I'd make a special trip north for the opportunity to sit down with them. HMM
I've watched every documentary on the Fitz I think ever made. What makes sense to me that I've heard on many videos is they bottomed out, was taking on water, she was riding low with a list and took a nose dive on a trough of a wave. Makes perfect sense. The visor on the pilot house was dented in and the way it spit in 2 and spun the stern upside down. My belief is that's what happened
I tend to agree with everything you're saying. In the end, she lost buoyancy and nose-dived for good. Thanks for watching...HMM
I've studied this boat extensively. The Fitzgerald had no chance of survival in that storm. I could write an essay on it, and all the factors that led to it's demise
You should write and essay on it, then. So many factors to think about. Other boats survived the storm...the Anderson...why not the Fitz? Thanks for contributing to my channel. HMM@@gregorylyon1004
Yes, I think the ship went down in one piece and folded like an accordion when it plowed through the bottom. The bow and stern are relatively close together. Must have went down in one piece.
Tomorrow, November 10th, 2023 marks 48 years since the Fitzgerald's sinking. RIP Shipmates from a retired Navy Sailor ....
Thank you
You're welcome! HMM
Fascinating..... from what I'm gathering ...... neglected maintenance and greed...too much cargo weight and really bad timing.
captian cooper said their was two ships on that lake that night and one was going to the bottom.that is a direct quote from him.
That is infuriating they won't allow anyone to get near it to juat see if they can find out what happened to it. Of course it is a grave site to be respected but those men that went down with it and their families deserve closure and to know what happened to try and save other mariners the same fate if nothing else. This has alway been a sad situation to me. I never knew they were preventing anyone from finding out what happened. I tend to agree, it is a cover up. I am sorry for everyone's family of those men on that ship for the loss of their loved one. I hope some day they will allow the truth to come out.
Thanks Lori...for sharing your thoughts here...and thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
I get it that the families want to preserve the Fitzgerald site as a grave. Certainly commercial and recreational diving should be prohibited 🚫.
But if another few weeks or months of scientific dives will confirm why she went down, why not allow it ?
The Arizona off Oahu is a gravesite. But I believe limited, purposeful diving is allowed.
Please comment if I'm wrong or misinformed.
It's a debate that will go on and on. I can see both sides. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Another amazing video! Thank you so much for doing these! Those men should NEVER be forgotten!!!
Thanks. We are honored to honor the men of the Mighty Fitz. HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan you both do it so well, it gives us the chance to honor them with you guys as well! God Bless you both!
Thank you so much! HMM@@p.k.5455
The investigation was a crock. IMOP
That's crazy that the guy couldn't talk about it. It's like they knew that something was wrong with the Fitzgerald, and they were covering their butt. Like I said on the other video, there was a guy named Tugboat Jim who knew Ronnie Roman, who was on the Anderson the night the Fitzgerald sank, and he talked about how the Fitzgerald had an emergency repair job in Sturgeon Bay right before this happened. I think the welds didn't hold up, and the keel had a stress fracture, which lead to the listing and eventual sinking. Just look at the lifeboat that was recovered. It was all shredded. It goes to show how powerful Lake Superior truly is during the gales of November
Love to find someone who was on the Anderson that night. HMM
I believe that the 3rd Mate from the Anderson is still alive. I think it's Ed, but I can't remember what his last name is.
Yeah...I've tried to reach out to him with no luck...thanks! HMM
I would hope that if anyone with first hand knowledge and alive, can shed some light on the Fitzgerald's sinking. Please speak up, and let the weight of any untold information set you free. I believe the official storyline as it stands, is too perfect. I believe the truth is still out there.
Interesting thoughts...thanks for sharing them here. "the truth is still out there." That gives us all something to think about. HMM
I've studied this boat extensively. The Fitzgerald had absolutely no chance of survival in that storm. Way too many things went wrong. And I don't place any blame on Captain Mc Sorely. I studied this boat for years. But I also don't call this loss the Titanic of the Great Lakes. The James C. Caruthers in my opinion is the real Titanic of the Great Lakes. And it's never been found in 110 years since it went down.
Super interesting. This is the first I've heard about the James C. Caruthers. I'll have to dig into that one. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.@@gregorylyon1004
Can somebody please tell me where I can find the introduction music that was just beautiful bagpipe music thank you
It was so good to listen tò your storiesabout the. Edmund Fitzgerald, God bless you,
Thanks for watching...HMM
4:10 Hulett unloaders at Whiskey Island, Cleveland Ohio.
It was only overloaded by 8.8 million pounds 🤦♂️😮
I had an uncle that claimed he was the 30th crew member on the Fitz, and was on it just before it went down. He says he partied alittle too much the night before at the locks in the Soo and missed the boat when it left the next day, bringing it to 29 members. The whole family recounted it, but i cannot find any collaboration of facts.
Wow...now that's a fascinating story. Hope you can get to the bottom of it. It'd be worth covering here. Thanks for watching...HMM
Like Jim Cameron did with the Titanic, a group needs to be assembled of Fitz experts to come to a consensus conclusion on many of the unanswered questions that still persist. The 50th anniversary is coming up so the the law that prohibits diving on a wreck with loss of life will have lapsed. A coalition of different Fitz experts could dive the wreck in subs or with ROVs and answer so many questions. Possibly crowd funded. I know I'd donate.
Ohh I'd donate too for sure
I would also donate to that cause, but I ain't going down on a sub! I just don't have the stones for that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Crazy how my birthday is the same day. I was born in 89
Happy Halloween! Thanks for watching...HMM