Rogue Wave or Human Error: What Sunk The Infamous SS Edmund Fitzgerald? | Dive Detectives | Timeline
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- On the night of November 10, 1975, the Great Lakes freighter Edmund Fitzgerald and her crew of 29 men sailed into a terrifying winter storm - and vanished. There were no witnesses, no survivors and over 30 years later, still no answers. Her sinking remains one of the world’s greatest maritime mysteries.
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The bell now rings 30 times, once more to Gordon Lightfoot who enshrined the tragedy of the Edmund Fitzgerald who we lost this time last year. RIP to Gord and the crew of 29
If it wasn’t for Gordon Lightfoot I’d have never heard of the tragedy that befell the Edmund Fitzgerald.
His song has ensured the unfortunate crew will,not be forgotten
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?“ 😢
SenorTuca, same here. I’ve been a Lightfoot fan since I was 13, and this song was so different than anything else that he wrote. Did you know that the recording was the first take at the recording session? None of Gord’s band had ever played the song before, but the recording engineer decided to record it anyway. Talk about the perfect moment when everything went right at the same time! As a studio musician I know how extremely rare that is! All the royalties from the song went to the families of the 29 men who went down with the Fitz as they called her. I bless Gord for bringing the world’s attention to this maritime tragedy. RIP Gord and Red Shea who played the fabulous electric guitar licks on this recording.
Gordon Lightfoot, a legendary singer who also bound himself to the legacy of the Fitz with his haunting song.
We don't realize how powerful our great lakes are.
Remarkable investigation that absolves the crew. Tragic on so many levels. Greed. Exploitation. Cutting corners. Very informative. I sailed as a passenger in 1982 on a small freighter to South Georgia, South Atlantic. It had been chartered by the RN and I was part of 30 man British Army team. The crew were indigenous St. Helenians. Incredible sailors. We hit a F11 storm approaching Shag Rock (or maybe just passed it). The skill of the crew was staggering. We got through unscathed but the two cargo holds were pulverised. We’d lost all our rations, fuel, some ammunition. But the St. Helena was in one piece, as were we. Nothing but respect for sailors, merchant or military.
I'm a lake Huron solo sailor, and I'm a welder fabricator, they water tested a non twisting and non rolling ship, even with clamps done a worn out twisting ship in my eyes will leak a lot! No blame to the sea men!! Blame falls on the money holders, they lived happy lives and that's wrong
The corrupt coast guard repeatedly certified the unsafe ship. The owners and Insurance company were at fault
I know absolutely nothing about ships, sailing, but I'm truly fascinated by all of these documentaries, and the bravery of all these men. God bless them.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours..."
Ye make your own luck out there on the water. Waves & water spouts don't attend church.
That was a truly great tribute that Gordon Lightfoot did in respect for the crew and their ship.
I’m a flatlander. I watch these shows to learn and to appreciate the men that risk their lives to transport goods across the water. RIP 🚢
I grew up in a town on Lake St Clair, we used to go for boat rides and see these monsters all the time.
When you're 10 yrs old and doing the " Trucker horn pump" and the freighter blasts his horn for you, You're King of The World.
I remember when she went down. The entire town was sad. It was a difficult time.
When a storm is coming you Batten Down the Hatches and double check them. Never bought the story that the Captain or Crew were at fault. No Way.
@patriciafeehan7732 Agreed!! I'm of a mind that human greed (IMO in the overloading of ore) and Mother Nature in all her fury are the key factors. God bless the crew and all those who loved them -- Gordon Lightfoot too.
Especially since those crew members combined had centuries of experience. Captain McSorley alone had over 40 years in.
Inspection of the wreck conclusively shows clamps which were not properly fastened. There is no question of this.
I had an uncle who was a merchant marine and he told me they of course, always steered clear of hurricanes/typhoons, but before they got within a certain vicinity or if they knew any kind of storm was coming the FIRST order of business was to make sure all hatches were secure and everything was tied down. I to don’t buy the story that those hatches were not secure. The ones the Coast Guard reportedly found loose probably popped loose as the ship broke apart. Sometime in the future I hope they re-examine the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald because I don’t buy the Coast Guard’s report.
@@charlesfaure1189 That is true, but how do we know they did not pop loose when the ship broke apart. Every type of metal has a certain elasticity to it and they could’ve sprung loose when the ship broke up. Also read the other comment I just posted here. My uncle, who was a merchant marine told me securing everything prior to a storm was paramount and I’m pretty sure the guys on the Edmund Fitzgerald did just that.
This was a bad storm. My stepfather was driving from central Wisconsin into western Minnesota and got caught in it. From thunderstorms and lighting to thunder-snow and 60 mph winds. Would have been 100 times worse on Lake Superior.
Has anyone noticed. Everytime you hear a bell ring it rings periodically in the video. In total it rang 29 times.
If you're counting the number of bell rings in a 47 minute video, perhaps you have too much time on your hands🤔🤣
30 I heard
@@brettpettinger9200when it haunts you that much you do notice . Time is all that matters in life.. You should take more time to recognize things in life .
@@adamwagner1987 #30 for Gordon Lightfoot.
@@brettpettinger9200 So you're the one. There is always at least one.
I will preface this with that I’m writing this comment before finishing the video. As a Great Lakes sailor myself working on the boats out here I have to say this a good video! Personally I believe what they say about the bow flooding I believe what happened is that they were in the storm taking waves over the pilot house and radioed that they had water coming in. But the reason for no call saying they were going down or anything of the sort was because the water they sank in was shallower than the boat was long and I believe they crested a wave water and cargo rushed forward and where they thought they were going to pop back that it drove them nose first into the bottom before they even knew they were going down which caused her to snap in the middle
Well done documentary.
As someone who grew up on the lakes and lost a uncle on the Bradley it's really nice to see someone cover this topic with this much sensitivity toward the families of those lost. So many docs just gloss over the human toll for a bunch of statistics.
Except the makers' error in using "infamous" instead of what they really meant, "famous." Use a dictionary, guys.
I was on the oil tanker M.V. Lakeshell in 1975. We were too far away in Lake Superior from the Edmond Fitzgerald to help her. Our crew did experience high waves in Lake Huron, but the chief engineer took on ballast to sink us like a submarine, so we survived. Also our design as a tanker (bridge and engine room positioned on the stern) helped, as not to twist to cause a breakup of the metal structure. The angels were looking over us that time. 😇
Remarkable story.
The fact they tried to blame the crew is the most disgusting part of this story. The investigators and company owners should all be slapped with something heavy and jagged. That Ship was their home on the water and regardless of lax attitudes in calm weather, as soon as it turned sour they would have been racing around making sure everything was buttoned up tight, laziness was not an option. The fact they were overloaded is what sunk the ship, they may have withstood the storm as the other other ships did if loaded correctly, this was the owners fault not the Crews.
Because it most likely was crew error. Or atleast partially.
@@HeathenTruckerwhich is why modern ships are built to have more room for human error, along with strict load weights, and weather related.
there is also a theory (i'm not sure if it's presented in this video) that due to the heavy weight, and the relatively shallow lake, vs an ocean depth, caused the ship to go completely vertically in the water, with the nose hitting the bottom of the lake, causing it to snap in half. if that is what happened, there is very little the crew could've done to keep the ship intact
My grandfather was a doc on the Fitz for years, but retired 6 months before her loss. Even got a peice of the Fitz ancore
the other sad part of the story is that the families had to live with the thought of it's the crews fault. moms and dads and siblings have past away not knowing the real truth.
*passed
It most likely was the crews fault
Yeah because they didn’t stand up to the big corporations and say we’re not going to sail on an overloaded ship…..just for more profits!!!
@@299charles - part of the trouble is at the time the retro fit work up grade got changed into a change of the structure. at the time the coast guard signed off as fit for service. after and with new tec and knowledge we know that the change should not have been made. the ship had the coast guard late season inspection too 30 days prior.
The courage of the men who sail this most dangerous stretch of water daily is beyond belief.
Born and raised in Michigan my whole life and I remember when the Fitz sank. I firmly believe she hit the three sisters mentioned by Captain Bernie Cooper. Once her bow was plunged under water and probably hit bottom, that still left over 200 feet of the ship out of the water and the hull couldn't handle it and she broke her back.
A) Wrong loading sequence between cargo holds can cause huge stresses on the ship’s structure, if the stresses at any frame exceed 100% there will be a structural failure.
B) There are 2 conditions for calculating stresses, sea conditions and port conditions. Port conditions gives more allowances, for example a bm stress of 120% at a sea going condition will be only 80% at port/calm water conditions.
C) Iron ore which is avery heavy cargo is loaded at the center of the hold and it creates a slop which from it the cargo is spread to the rest of the hold. The cargo holds are not fully loaded due to the weight of the cargo. There is no way to balance the ship, the ballast water is being pumped out as much as possible to load more cargo during the loading and pumped in during discharge. Ballast water in bulk carries is used only to reduce stresses, make sure that the propellor is submerged, to reduce air draft, to keep the vessel at a minimum draft that will allow the ship to be sea worthy( Without cargo the vessel will float like a ballon with excessive stability).
D) When the ship is in Ballast condition need to check that the bilges are not clogged. Rubber packings of hatch covers need to be checked frequently and changed when they show signs of deformation or fatigue . Hatch comings drain channels must be checked that they are not clogged before departure. All cargo hatches must be secured before departure, it’s the chief officer’s responsibility to inform the captain when the ship is ready to depart, it’s the captain’s duty to make sure that all the preparations are made.
There are many more things I can write about but I will stop here, if you are interested read bulk carrier practice book for more information.
Awesome comment!!!
@@HeathenTrucker Thank you
I'm sure that ship building has gotten even better, but a former Capt on the Lakes made a comment about the ship losses that stayed with me. Most ships go down are run by "Company" men who do whatever it takes to make a run on time, and (more significantly), they make that one last run of the season. What changed after the Fitz is that the insurance companies refused to insure any ship that made a run when the weather predicted severe storms (like the Witch of November). I'm no fan of insurance companies, they bleed just about every segment of society, but that decision took the decision to sail out of the Captain's hands, and companies stopped pressuring the Captain as well.
RIP Gord and the 29 crew members lost in this tragedy, and my best wishes to all surviving family members and friends.
The respectful attitude shown to the dead in re this maritime grave is heartening, as are the sterling efforts shown in this fascinating documentary to get at the truth.
I'm impressed! Nice one team. 🌟👍
Big props to these guys for finally putting this documentary online. Back when I was in my Fitzgerald craze about 3 years ago as I attempted to solve the mystery, I found a short teaser for this episode. I was familiar with Mike Fletcher from The Sea Hunters, so I really wanted to see the episode in full. Now I finally have, and it backs up greatly what I believe most likely happened to Big Fitz and her crew.
Men who worked on the ship spoke of cracks in the hull that you could see daylight through, they were told don't worry about it. The Coast Guard said it wouldn't have mattered during the investigations. The film didn't mention that the Anderson had eight FEET of water on its deck that night. those sailors were scared to death. The Coast Guard Rescue boat out of Duluth that night went beyond vertical as the waves that night bounced off the shore and were coming in at three different angles. Captain Mcsorley had his pumps on, why? the pumps on that ship only pump from the ballast tanks. That ship had multiple failures.
The film didn’t mention the possibility of the Fitzgerald bottoming out on 6 Fathom Shoal as it passed Caribou Island. I have always wondered if damage caused by contact with the shoal may have been enough to cause the ship to break up on the surface as it was hit by the waves that Bernie Cooper described.
I remember when this happened. Waiting to hear about if they have been located. It was sad news.
It was greed that sunk that ship. Corporate greed. Corporate greed will sink us all.
Thorough, respectful and even handed in it approch.this is the best video i have seen on the fitz.thank you so much for this wonderful documentary.
A truly amazing story!! Thank you for the video!!
I thought this video was very well done. Lots of new info provided. Thank you!
Brave of Dennis to go out there. I would have never went near the ocean again if I were him.
He didn’t for a long time, took him a couple decades just to talk about it.
For the record, it's not the ocean but it may as well be. It's a big deep cold lake.
It still seems to lead that the missing vent covers were the main culprit for letting water to flood her holds, and that rogue that Capt Cooper stated, that would have shifted all of her cargo forward against the bulkheads of the compartments, making her more nose heavy, ontop of the water adding more weight, then she just slipped under, weakening her middle, I want to say that is where she split, like titanic did
It is easy to say "crew neglect" because there is no one left to say any different.
My gpa was on the Blough (ship sent to try and save the sailors).
Is it an apples to apples comparison between the Morrell and the Fitzgerald, though? The Morrell was a vastly older vessel (1906) that had a hull made of brittle steel, something that wasn't changed until almost the 1950s.
It was neat to see the Calumet at, presumably, the Port Colburne marine scrap yard.
Don’t forget the Bradley. Built in 1927 and split in two and sank in Lake Michigan in November 1958.
I'm so glad I saw this video. I've never believed the crew left a hatch open. AWESOME documentary.
I learned of the Edmund Fitzgerald disaster from Gordon Lightfoot's song. That's how old that was
So did I but it was my dad that played it. Guess that shows my age too, lol. 🎉
I bet that one guy who survived the other wreck just hates that song
That song has always given me chills...and still does.
1975 wasn’t that long ago
I was 1 month shy of my 15th birthday when this happened. I remember hearing about it on the news. Yes, I am that old. 😉
More please! Love interesting new perspective and investigation in 2024. Well done and really enjoyed.
More!!
I've always been haunted by the tragic story of the Fitzgerald... A thousand thoughts flood my mind and sometimes I'm consumed with the thoughts of its crew and what happened for days at a time...Such a sad piece of History
I was out with my buddy hunting duck on
Lake Saint Clair the day the Fitzgerald was
lost, I got soaked hauling in the decoys because of the winds. We heard the radio
broadcast of the news on the way home
from the lake. Will never forget that day.
Really interesting, God Bless the crew 🙏
Wow watching that simulator gave me chills, after being in that I would never get on another boat
The most haunting part about this, to me, is the guy talking about hearing his ship tear apart. And just thinking that the guys on the EF might have had, maybe, seconds to even realize what was happening. A wave could have crashed over the pilot house and wiped out anyone inside before they could do anything at all to stop what was coming or even mitigate it. Some of the guys belowdecks might not have even known anything was happening before it was all over.
It reminds me of another video I saw on here with a ship that broke in half, and sank suddenly. While not the same size as the Fitzgerald, it looked like the same type of design. Warnings were given, but more than a few men under the deck had no chance to get out in time, and those seas were NOWHERE near what the sailors went through the night of the Fitzgerald sinking.
I imagine that in those kind of waves that many were seasick too. I don't care how long you've been on a ship or boat.That kind of motion constantly would make you sick.I grew up on one since my mother and grandparents piloted one around the lake. Went deep sea fishing all the time on the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean's. The only time I was seasick was during a storm on the Pacific ocean.
It's about time we see a new documentary about the Fitz! It was the first song I learned to play on the guitar & I've been obsessed since! THANK YOU!! 😁😁
I remember hearing the song when I was about 10 years old and it was so scary to me that I had nightmares the first time I heard that song!! I still get creeped out by that song to this day!! How sad for the victims families!!!
The investigative work in this video is amazing!!
Essy to blame a dead crew
They can no longer blame the crew! Thanks for this video!
I'm from the Lowcountry-Hilton Head Island SC originally. I've been out on the Atlantic during just small storms, and I know how frightening that was. I have never been go the Great Lakes but have heard that it's actually much more intense! God Bless them and their families!
Great Show 😊
EXCELLENT PROGRAM
Isn't it weird that people nowadays go to the site of shipwrecks using small boats?
When you put it that way it is pretty wierd
If I had to guess I’d say risk is lower nowadays because our forecasting technology has improved but yea still sketchy
Huron is generally calm and beautiful in the summer. Being in a ship there spring or fall seems unimaginable. Superior would only be worse.
No weather at the time
People have always done that
personally, i dont think it was either. All the evidence points towards her taking on water, which, when she hit a trough, saw her break deep, strike the bottom of the seabed, split and thats why her rear half is upside down. it was simply a matter of circumstance that no-one could have forseen or stopped (remember, the Fitz was an old ship)
I agree with your initial assessment, there’s nothing new or groundbreaking in this documentary, just another look at an old mystery. However, if you look at the evidence collected by multiple sources, there is nothing to indicate that the Fitz ever scraped the bottom. That has been a long standing theory but has never been substantiated, despite numerous studies on the ship’s course and the shoal that she supposedly hit. Also, the Fitz was not an old ship by any means, only 17 years old when she sank. There are ships still sailing the lakes at well over 100 years old because they don’t see the same wear and tear as salt water vessels do.
@@SierraRailwayThe Arthur Anderson herself is still sailing at over 70 years old.
But it’s not entirely improbable. Rogue waves can come out of nowhere. That’s not even factoring in the weight of the cargo or the water the ship had already taken.
the Anderson was older, the Anderson was also better Kept Up
You guys are awesome!!!!
I have been fascinated by this disaster since the day it happened. Thank you for this most *EXCELLENT* documentaries! 🙏
Fake comment. Most EXCELLENT documentaries? You mean most excellent documentary. NOT documentaries.
Thank you!! I have been looking for this documentary for 4 years. Until now it has only been available on Amazon in Canada. I appreciate the airing on YT. My obsession with the Edmund Fitzgerald began with Gordon Lightfoot’’s song… It has haunted me.
Engineers need to stop calling their ships unsinkable. It never seems to end well
Engineers never call a ship unsinkable. Even the Titanic wasn't called unsinkable. It was the media that called it unsinkable.
Shallow lake with ocean sized waves, she went over a possible rogue(but it didn't have to be) into the trough and straight into the lakebed
Shallow lake? Average depth 147m. Deepest 406m. Not exactly shallow. Definitely deeper than say Lake Erie at 64m.
@panzerabwerkanone it's shallow, the edmund is 735ft long, she is sitting 500 ft down...the 1st boat they showed was only 180feet down...when a big storm comes in this lake the waves bounce off the lakebed amplifying them and shortening the intervals, if you have a 30m wave it also will have a 30m trough, so that is 90 feet up, 90 feet down and than,in the case of the fitz, 200-300 feet to the bottom from the lowest point of that trough that our 700 ft ocean sized tanker is going headfirst downhill into
@@Epckyou might have 180 feet between the peak and trough, but they're not headed straight down without another wave coming to bouy them back up.😊
@panzerabwerkanone sorry the 1st ship was huron
I suspect the bow went underwater and just didn't come back up, the stress snapped the ship in half and it landed on the bottom of the way it did
I was wondering if you could do a video covering the harrying of the north? It’s such an important yet forgotten part of English history, northern England still hasn’t recovered nearly 1000 years later, and it’s a big reason why the north-south divide is even a thing.
3:30
Recent sonar scans?
It’s been illegal to do any sonar surveys on the Fitz since 2006 with the Ontario Heritage Act.
those are old scans...recent is subjective
It's not illegal scan anything from the surface. The Act protects the wreck from being disturbed in any way or from people diving on it. It's a protected gravesite not area 51.
This documentary has to have been quite old. It was established back in 2010 that human error did not cause the sinking
@@terminallumbago6465 well they were 15 % aboce designed limit..thats human error
@@terminallumbago6465 Dennis Hale, the lone survivor from the SS Morrell, died in 2015. I estimate this doc to be from around 2010.
Mike Nelson would have said.."when suddenly it happened ! "😮
My great uncle was In the engine room when the ship went down
Wondering how old you were? Your whole family must have been devastated.
@@heidikickhouse- Why are you using a question mark? You didn't ask a question. Please try to use English like an adult.
You forgot to note that the sentence in question lacks a subject noun, officer.
@@clvrswine touch grass, please
@@clvrswineDoes it get exhausting being that bitter and nitpicky?
Very few things have a simple explanation. In this case, it was both human error AND nature's fury
id change human error to greed. greed was the reason for the retro fit and structure change = more tonnage. greed pushed for the change in regulations allowing to sit lower in the water.
Maybe we can compromise and acknowledge that the human error was on the owner not the crew. I believe the crew did everything right but I believe the owner had let the ship deteriorate and she failed under extreme duress.
For my part I've never believed the crew failed to secure hatches, that theory is ludicrous.
@@fisher1bno.
@@HeathenTruckerL
I remember as a kid going to a gas station that had a fish tank with a model of the Edmunds Fitzgerald in it. My uncle used to ship on the great lakes and the problem with the lakes is there are no tides and the storms cause waves to go all ways
Someone posted in another video that they kept painting the water lines differently so they could haul more, and that is what sunk the ship in the November storm!~
Wave pushed her bow under. Drove her straight down. Cooper even said his bow got pushed under, but he came back up. The Fitz had a list and was taking water, she couldn't recover. No radio distress, mayday, ect.. she broke on the bottom imo
That’s something that’s impossible to do.
I don’t think the splitting on the surface theory will ever be the main theory. There is evidence for it as the ship was not structurally sound. Despite only being 17 years old she had in the previous 6 years had her keel fixed twice for coming loose. There were also rumors of it happening again in the summer of 75 but they were ignored. A crew mate who had gotten off the ship before the disaster said this but was never interviewed by the USCG’s investigators. The other three ships that were out there the older Arthur M Anderson, and Wilfred Sykes and the new Roger Blough but better structurally. The former two had just been reinforced while the Blough being newer had been built better. The Fitzgerald I heard was overloaded. With those terrible seas and a potentially weak keel she didn’t stand a chance. Plus she wasn’t built with rivets which in the 80’s the Arthur B Homer the sister ship of the Fitzgerald who was built the same way was permanently laid up despite only being lengthened a few years before. Something just isn’t right with that. She could’ve bottomed out but the Captain Mcsorely was a 30+ year Master and Officer. He would’ve known that shoal in any weather. Now, first Mate McCarthy ( no relation that I’m aware of ) was also a master but was demoted after having his ship bottom out, if he was on watch and the ship bottomed out, that could be a possibility. The reason she won’t probably have that be the lead theory is because the Coast Guard would’ve lost even more credibility and the Great Lakes Shipping would’ve taken even more of a hit. There would’ve been lawsuits everywhere. And plus there’d be no mystery! If you want to truly solve or come to a most likely conclusion, then the Keel should be checked, and the logbook to see what they h may have been experiencing. It won’t answer everything but it’ll answer a lot. Plus if Fred Shannon is still alive he should be interviewed too. He knows/knew the wreck better than anyone else.
The Anderson said those waves were 35ft and he had 12 ft of water on his deck
Thank you. Something the people who made this chose not to mention. They somehow thought the ship just got sprayed with a hose lol
@HeathenTrucker While i agree with you to a point. I dont believe the ship sank because of the hatch covers
This needs a full production all star cast AAA production big time movie. Crazy story
The problem with this analysis is that you’ve started with a certain premise and then looked for evidence that would support it without considering either evidence against it or all of the investigations that have happened before.
Note that the ship you looked at which is known to have broken in two on the surface the two halves are widely separated. Thats not uncommon when a ship suffers a failure of that nature and it’s not something you see with the Fitzgerald.
The NTSB looked carefully at this event and their conclusions differ not only from the Coast Guard’s but also from your own.
We know the Fitzgerald was listing and taking on water. The NTSB found based on their investigation at that time that the hatch covers would not have been watertight in those boarding seas and that there was no way to pump out water that got into the holds. That the bilge pumps could not keep up with the rate of water coming in was further evidence of that. Otherwise if it was just the ballast tank vent tubes the pumps should have been able to handle that rate of inflow and eliminate the list.
The result was that the Fitzgerald with her heavy load and water aboard was now very deep in the water with her decks almost awash. Because of that when a boarding sea came over the front deck covers the hydrostatic load was enough to collapse the hatch cover into the forward holds. The wreck substantiates this with the hatch covers from at least holds 1 and 2 collapsed into their holds.
With the Fitzgerald already low in the water and a large wave crashing into the pilot house as the hatch covers fail that would have produced enough rapid flooding to drive the ship down by the head likely resulting in the bow of the ship plunging straight into the bottom.
The resulting violent stop as the ship moving at speed impacted the bottom would have created tremendous stress loads in the hull and could have very easily resulted in the ship breaking in half. Consequently the stern would have likely sunk very quickly and the fact that it capsized as it did so vice the bow which sits upright in the bottom is further evidence of this breakup sequence. Thats also why the two halves lie so close together.
Just look at the animation you did on the simulator. Now imagine when that big maximum wave washes over the pilot house that the forward hatch covers fail instantly flooding those spaces with tons of water. It’s easy to see how that almost instantaneous loss of buoyancy would have driven her bow straight to the sea floor giving those on the bridge no chance for a Mayday or Escape. Similarly to violent nature of the impact with the sea floor and the resulting breakup and capsizing also doomed everyone in the stern section of the ship.
Finally it should be noted that the NTSB investigated multiple possible loss scenarios and the forgoing was the only one which fit all of the available evidence.
Well said. I believe the hatch covers collapsed as well but not because of the crews failure to dog them down. I found that coast guard report to be BS
@@josephayers7395 yeah the NTSB was pretty clear that the boarding seas produced a depth of water sufficient to collapse the covers on their own. Add that to the fact that even properly and fully dogged they were not watertight.
@@jetdriver Agreed. Do you think she also bottomed out on that shoal
So sad and to think they blamed the crew may they rest in eternal peace.
Because all evidence then and now show that it was both the crew and the weather..
Knowing November has bad weather, they loaded a ship to ride 4' lower than normal.
Their water pressure test using the hose and a "similar" cargo freighter was....Lacking. Their method didn't account for flexing and twisting due to the storm. Though I have also always doubted the crew would've left the hatches unsecure to have caused the sinking! Just pointing out the flawed test to discount it.
Or 35 foot seas with 12 feet of ocean on the deck
@@HeathenTrucker Which would cause the flexing and twisting. Those poor souls were screwed by timing and circumstances not of their making. :(
Standard is 5 bulkheads. Fitzgerald only had 3 bulkheads.
According to Capt. Darryal over on the History Man channel
she was buckled & twisted long before she made that last sailing, because she often ran overloaded [by the ships owners & Capt's]
He had worked on the Big Fitz & he had family on her when she went down
He also contends that she had run aground on an unmarked section of shoal and then the coup de gras was the 3 sisters that had just washed over the Arthur M Andersen a few moments before
so I very firmly believe it was a combination of events that led up to her being on the bottom
Capt., Darryal
I've seen waves on lake erie keep snowballing until they are 4 times as big as what the wave starts off as ... The weight of that water is incredibly significant... It will push a ship straight down and the stress will snap it like a twig in 75mph wind . God rest the people and thier families in all tragedies
Dateline is a solid program. This was a trip. I was 17 years old during the Trial of the Century. This made me remember how crazy the coverage actually was. Jane Pauly really phrased her questions toward the dismissed juror according to how people viewed the trial with a relative degree of mistrust, that’s my sense after watching this. If you look at Mark Fuhrman’s testimony pleading the 5th in its entirety, it’s definitely not as dramatic as the way the television media chopped it up for clickbait.
Any ship of that length can break it's back across the trough between two peaks especially if she's fully laden.
I am for diving the wreck. To go inside the pilot house and get the log book. That log book could tell a lot about that night
I dont think that will ever happen, and would the log book even be readable today after being in water for almost 50 years? Terrible thing I saw on here was when diving the wreck WAS allowed, a father and son went down to look at the wreck, and the son actually saw a body nearby the ship. I assume they left it there, and now the wreck is recognized as a gravesite.
One that the surviving families want left alone, and that ended up being a reason that lawmakers made the wreck no longer allowed to be researched.
I think it was the three sisters. I've live on lake superior it gets ROUGH 😢
I know everyone still has their own opinion but from what I've seen of the wreck sight of the Fitzgerald but what I do disagree with is the way she sank and how the sections lay on the bottom! I still believe she nose dived digging a trench and the stern twisted the ship apart! There is too much twisted steel from the middle section!
Thanks for up loading this video it's very interesting!
The nose dive is the only way to explain the two halves being so close together on the bottom and all the damage in the middle.
Sounds like a rouge wave.
Also - with a storm like that and the ship twisting, those hatches ARE gonna leak.
Not normally. Unless most of the clamps weren’t secured
@HeathenTrucker That's bull. The crew would have dogged those down. Don't blame them for something they didn't do. The fact is the covers let in water because she was listing and so far down in the water the covers were flexing
I remember that day
I believe she was torn apart on the surface. RIP Her Crew. Gordon wrote the perfect song for yawl.
I want to see how the hatches perform when being twisted in the rough waves. It was designed to bend so we're the hatches designed that way too?
Why would you refer to Edmund Fitzgerald, or its sinking, as infamous? The sinking was a tragedy, it wasn't infamous.
The word “infamous” is used in a negative context, as opposed to “famous”……
“With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons. More than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty.” That load was nearly twice as much as her empty weight.
Similar incident to that of the MV Derbyshire, also a very large ore carrier, during typhoon Orchid off the south of Japan. 42 crew and 2 wives lost. 169000tons DWT. Believed structural failure caused by huge seas.
I grew up in Duluth and remember watching the storm down in the harbor from the bus to school. Interesting video, but they spelled Duluth with an "e" on the map (35:44).
I liked Duluth when I visited there. The wind was a bit cool for a warm weather person like me. I also loved the water coming out of the tap, Beautiful in the mouth and on the skin. Like liquid silk I thought.
Whether the hatch coverings are to blame or not that water test they performed with the fire hose was just total BS.
There were thousands of tons of water washing over the deck, not some piddly little jet concentrated on a few square inches.
The ship was hogging and torquing so the hatch coverings were flexing away from and onto the holds, even a quarter inch gap will let in a lot of sea water and this was going on for hours around the entire perimeter of the cover.
There were no bulkheads within the cargo bay so the entire payload would have been shifting forwards and backwards as well as side to side. If the ship started listing it would stay listing and only get worse unless a wave managed to right it and distribute the taconite more evenly.
This said I believe that due to the inaccuracy of the charts and the significant extra weight she was carrying the Fitzgerald bottomed out and at the very least lost the structural integrity of her keel plates.
Thank you! You said it soooo much better than I did
Thanks, this is the comment I was looking for. My thoughts entirely - a hose pipe cannot compare to the weight and pressure of the 8 metre waves that sank the Fitzgerald! That supposed test of the hatches was an utter farce!
Construction companies of two Sankey ships( 2🚢 )Construction companies were responsible for weaknesses of those two ships for reduced cost than decided amount. Companies utilized those ships 🚢 loads much more weights than what was designed for financial greedily.
That is the other thing if you go down with the ship in that lake you're body stays with the ship because of the cold water.
The water hose test on the hatch covers would in no way duplicate the stresses and flexing that would occur when a ship is being battered by the huge waves in a storm. During such conditions the entire vessel hogs, sags, and most importantly, twists. It's easily conceivable that the hatch covers could start leaking when the frames of the openings are being twisted side to side. I don't think that the hatch covers were an issue during the sinking, but the hose test was a waste of time.
The song is good but brings back the sad memories,feelings . I just as doon not hear it .
A neat documentary overall, the “simulator” footage was unique and interesting, but there were some glaring errors too, like the narrator saying the Fitz was the largest AND fastest freighter on the lakes…..the Fitz was most definitely not the fastest lake freighter even on the day it first set sail, there were several lengthened / converted “Victory ships” on the lakes at the time that could keep up a pace over 50% faster than the Fitzgerald’s top speed.
It was a storm with massive waves. They had been in contact with the other ship and said holding our own, meaning they did everything they could to try to sail. the only thing they would be at fault for was to go at all....
I'm not a expert, but a fast horizontal air-flow over the curved surface of a wave chrest creates additional lift (Bernoulli effect), like the air flowing over a wing, continualy reinforcing wave height growth
After the Fitz went down I just do not understand other than pure greed why these freighters are obligated to be out there in the month of November. We know it’s a brutal month for the lakes.
Deck officers/Chief officers/Captains take note: There are pre warning signs that the vessel was submitted to heavy stresses from all sorts of reasons: dented railings, dented soundings pipes and dented frames inside the holds. Frequent inspections of ballast tanks especially in the vicinity of the frame where those signs appear will give indication if there are serious issues with safety of the vessel.
I know of a passenger ship that had water running up and down the cable trays. The Captain immediately turned the ship back to port on seeing this.
On inspection the ship was found to have vertical cracks on opposite sides. One was 5m and the other 8m in length. Had the ship continued then it was possible that the ship may have broken in two.
The steel from those plates was really brittle and I broke small pieces of it in my fingers like chalk. The little bulkheads between the inner and outer hulls had vanished with corrosion. I seriously admired that Captain, the Engineer and the shipping line who spared no expense on repairs. I would have sailed with them at any time. We replaced the plates and she was good to go. I suspect that a serious dry dock inspection lay ahead.
Things are not as they used to be long time ago, in order to renew all the certificates the vessels pass annuall surveys, every two and a half years underwater survey and every five years they have to be dry docked for full hull inspection including thickness measurements. You have to understand that bulk carriers are more likely to get structural failures not just because of old age
Great to see some updated simulations and information. We keep learning more and more about rogue waves and what they can do.
Lake Superior doesn't give up it's dead or it's secrets.
its, not it's. It's means it is. Just use its.
@@clvrswine Hmm... yeah...
Okay, I’m only part-way into this documentary and I can see that not only is there nothing new here, but the producers do not appear to have done very much research beyond what they were told by the few people they interviewed. First of all, you can’t effectively compare the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald to that of the Daniel J. Morrell. The Morrell was 60 years old, in poor condition, and built using Bessemer steel which becomes brittle in cold temperatures; it’s ALWAYS cold on the lakes. The Fitz was designed very differently, with welded hull and newer steel manufacturing processes. It is possible that the storm could have caused a small stress fracture in the hull that would have caused it to take on water gradually, but not as likely as other possibilities. The Henry Steinbrenner lost its hatch covers and sank so quickly it didn’t even break up, I suspect something similar would have happened to the Fitz if a stress fracture had opened up. If it had broken up on the surface like any other lake boat, then they would have had time for a distress call. Evidence indicates that the ship took on water very gradually, which caused it to plunge into the sea floor when the ship hit a massive wave, broke its back, stern flipped over and came to rest on the bottom. Also, these ships breaking at the center is not new or unique; these lake boats are long SOB’s, they ALWAYS break at center. On that same note, nearly every lake freighter that has ever broken up on the lakes has settled upright on the sea floor, so whatever happened to the Fitz was very unusual. Honestly, this program appears to me like all these guys did was watch a previous documentary or two, visit the Morrell and interview Dennis Hale, assert an opinion on the wreck of the Fitz doing minimal research, and presented it as if it were some fresh new perspective. Any of us online commenters could do that, they just had the money. I do appreciate that they actually tested the theory that the ship sank due to “ineffective closure of the cargo hatches” and proved it to be false, which was nice to see.
Exactly!
Also been told the Fitz was not in that great of Shape