You’re correct here. No one to defend what actually happened that night. That’s why I will always defend Capt Bernie Cooper’s explanation of what he believes happened.
Interestingly enough they waited till 2006 to make it illegal to dive on the EF where as previously it wasn't by either the USCG or the Canadian Government even after a submersible "tour" of the exterior discovered human remains in the mid to late 90's that were allegedly missed by DSD's of both countries inquiry and investigation in to the wreck in the early to mid 80's to prove their incident reports were factually accurate and did not need to be amended to change the cause of the sinking and upholding the crew at fault premise. Many experts outside of those in both the USCG NTSB and it's Canadian counterparts have all disputed the official findings upon seeing the 4k video of the wreck outside of those in this video so why continue to lie about it?
The bell now rings 30 times, once more to Gordon Lightfoot who enshrined the tragedy of the Edmund Fitzgerald who we lost this time last year. RIP to Gord and the crew of 29
If it wasn’t for Gordon Lightfoot I’d have never heard of the tragedy that befell the Edmund Fitzgerald. His song has ensured the unfortunate crew will,not be forgotten
SenorTuca, same here. I’ve been a Lightfoot fan since I was 13, and this song was so different than anything else that he wrote. Did you know that the recording was the first take at the recording session? None of Gord’s band had ever played the song before, but the recording engineer decided to record it anyway. Talk about the perfect moment when everything went right at the same time! As a studio musician I know how extremely rare that is! All the royalties from the song went to the families of the 29 men who went down with the Fitz as they called her. I bless Gord for bringing the world’s attention to this maritime tragedy. RIP Gord and Red Shea who played the fabulous electric guitar licks on this recording.
I'm a lake Huron solo sailor, and I'm a welder fabricator, they water tested a non twisting and non rolling ship, even with clamps done a worn out twisting ship in my eyes will leak a lot! No blame to the sea men!! Blame falls on the money holders, they lived happy lives and that's wrong
Metal fatigues and will eventually break. It came down to corporate greed and lack of routine maintenance. Those sailors did everything right. Fatigue and overloading of waterlogged ore broke it in half. RIP to those brave souls!
The first thing....the VERY first thing suffer budget cuts is always maintenance. Company not making enough money? Cut the maintenance budget and lay off your Shipwrights.
@@tresco303lithgow4 The coast guard has many problems, however as a member for 12 years I personally never spotted the corruption you speak of. You may want to read a true account of the blizzard of 78 titled "Ten Hours Until Dawn" before bad mouthing the coast guard.
My dad had a cousin who sailed on the fitz her first 2 years. And dad grew up in Ashland WI and knew one of the crrw mwmbers that went down with the rest of the crew.😮😮
My sister's brother in law went down with the Fitz. Ironically my sister's husband had been the chief engineer on the Fitz for many years. He retired due to my sister's urging the year before the Fitz went down. Talk about luck. Had he not retired, two brothers would have been lost.
Remarkable investigation that absolves the crew. Tragic on so many levels. Greed. Exploitation. Cutting corners. Very informative. I sailed as a passenger in 1982 on a small freighter to South Georgia, South Atlantic. It had been chartered by the RN and I was part of 30 man British Army team. The crew were indigenous St. Helenians. Incredible sailors. We hit a F11 storm approaching Shag Rock (or maybe just passed it). The skill of the crew was staggering. We got through unscathed but the two cargo holds were pulverised. We’d lost all our rations, fuel, some ammunition. But the St. Helena was in one piece, as were we. Nothing but respect for sailors, merchant or military.
The Captain of the Anderson was behind the Fitzgerald and said he had been hit by 2 rogue waves less than a ship length apart and the Fitzgerald went down about the time he figured the waves would have hit the Fitzgerald and disappeared from his radar. The crew was not to blame for the ships loss, but the greed of the owners and the weather are the culprits.
It was the captains fault for not taking refuge on the north side of the lake like like captain Paquette did... old over confidant fools full of hubris are not uncommon.
@michaelmills7543 no greed sunk the Titanic you simpleton. It was the captains fault the Titanic sunk, for steaming into a ice field on a moonless night and not taking extra precautions... despite numerous ice warnings.
Well done documentary. As someone who grew up on the lakes and lost a uncle on the Bradley it's really nice to see someone cover this topic with this much sensitivity toward the families of those lost. So many docs just gloss over the human toll for a bunch of statistics.
I grew up in a town on Lake St Clair, we used to go for boat rides and see these monsters all the time. When you're 10 yrs old and doing the " Trucker horn pump" and the freighter blasts his horn for you, You're King of The World. I remember when she went down. The entire town was sad. It was a difficult time.
I know absolutely nothing about ships, sailing, but I'm truly fascinated by all of these documentaries, and the bravery of all these men. God bless them.
I was out with my buddy hunting duck on Lake Saint Clair the day the Fitzgerald was lost, I got soaked hauling in the decoys because of the winds. We heard the radio broadcast of the news on the way home from the lake. Will never forget that day.
I was on the oil tanker M.V. Lakeshell in 1975. We were too far away in Lake Superior from the Edmond Fitzgerald to help her. Our crew did experience high waves in Lake Huron, but the chief engineer took on ballast to sink us like a submarine, so we survived. Also our design as a tanker (bridge and engine room positioned on the stern) helped, as not to twist to cause a breakup of the metal structure. The angels were looking over us that time. 😇
there is a doc done by a father and son who are ship wreck hunters. well known with credentials for under water exploration. they debunked the faulty hatch idea. they went into all the history of the ship. records inspection etc, looked at sister ships and construction practices. weather simulation and in the bridge simulation. went to a wave machine research and found out about rouge waves and that they come in 3s. the rov video showed wheel house and other damages that prove waves hit. over all 3 rouge hit the ship and down she went. they sent the new info to the coast guard to have the report changed and record set straight. the wheel house simulator really tells how the ship took wave after wave and the last one crashing into the wheel house.
@patriciafeehan7732 Agreed!! I'm of a mind that human greed (IMO in the overloading of ore) and Mother Nature in all her fury are the key factors. God bless the crew and all those who loved them -- Gordon Lightfoot too.
I had an uncle who was a merchant marine and he told me they of course, always steered clear of hurricanes/typhoons, but before they got within a certain vicinity or if they knew any kind of storm was coming the FIRST order of business was to make sure all hatches were secure and everything was tied down. I to don’t buy the story that those hatches were not secure. The ones the Coast Guard reportedly found loose probably popped loose as the ship broke apart. Sometime in the future I hope they re-examine the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald because I don’t buy the Coast Guard’s report.
@@charlesfaure1189 That is true, but how do we know they did not pop loose when the ship broke apart. Every type of metal has a certain elasticity to it and they could’ve sprung loose when the ship broke up. Also read the other comment I just posted here. My uncle, who was a merchant marine told me securing everything prior to a storm was paramount and I’m pretty sure the guys on the Edmund Fitzgerald did just that.
The fact they tried to blame the crew is the most disgusting part of this story. The investigators and company owners should all be slapped with something heavy and jagged. That Ship was their home on the water and regardless of lax attitudes in calm weather, as soon as it turned sour they would have been racing around making sure everything was buttoned up tight, laziness was not an option. The fact they were overloaded is what sunk the ship, they may have withstood the storm as the other other ships did if loaded correctly, this was the owners fault not the Crews.
@@HeathenTruckerwhich is why modern ships are built to have more room for human error, along with strict load weights, and weather related. there is also a theory (i'm not sure if it's presented in this video) that due to the heavy weight, and the relatively shallow lake, vs an ocean depth, caused the ship to go completely vertically in the water, with the nose hitting the bottom of the lake, causing it to snap in half. if that is what happened, there is very little the crew could've done to keep the ship intact
@JimAllen-PersonaThere are first-person interviews out there that confirm the captain regularly delayed taking on fuel until after they had loaded, so they could exceed their weight restriction. The company apparently loved it, as well as the quick fixes to patch it together instead of intensive regular maintenance. The Fitz hauled a lot and had minimal downtime, but at what cost?
@JimAllen-PersonaI’m from superior wi, my dad worked for BNSF at those taconite docks they left for 30+ years. There’s talk that they were overloaded, taconite is heavy, but he left the dock way before the Sykes. Anderson left two harbors mn way before Fitz left superior. She passed the Anderson even tho Anderson was already on the move. The storm definitely took her out. Lake Superior, she’s absolutely stunning, but you never ever underestimate her
Just as you can't say it's the crews fault as there isn't enough evidence to prove they were at fault you can't say it went down because it was overloaded as there isn't enough evidence to prove that's why it went downn. I think it's very possible and even likely maybe that in the very least it may have contributed to the sinking but we don't know for sure. There was no mayday call so likely it was a rogue wave but again that can't be proven.
@@brettpettinger9200when it haunts you that much you do notice . Time is all that matters in life.. You should take more time to recognize things in life .
I will preface this with that I’m writing this comment before finishing the video. As a Great Lakes sailor myself working on the boats out here I have to say this a good video! Personally I believe what they say about the bow flooding I believe what happened is that they were in the storm taking waves over the pilot house and radioed that they had water coming in. But the reason for no call saying they were going down or anything of the sort was because the water they sank in was shallower than the boat was long and I believe they crested a wave water and cargo rushed forward and where they thought they were going to pop back that it drove them nose first into the bottom before they even knew they were going down which caused her to snap in the middle
Born and raised in Michigan my whole life and I remember when the Fitz sank. I firmly believe she hit the three sisters mentioned by Captain Bernie Cooper. Once her bow was plunged under water and probably hit bottom, that still left over 200 feet of the ship out of the water and the hull couldn't handle it and she broke her back.
I'm sure that ship building has gotten even better, but a former Capt on the Lakes made a comment about the ship losses that stayed with me. Most ships go down are run by "Company" men who do whatever it takes to make a run on time, and (more significantly), they make that one last run of the season. What changed after the Fitz is that the insurance companies refused to insure any ship that made a run when the weather predicted severe storms (like the Witch of November). I'm no fan of insurance companies, they bleed just about every segment of society, but that decision took the choice to sail out of the Captain's hands, and companies stopped pressuring the Captain as well.
It's extremely rare when the insurance company is the good guys in a story. But I guess they were tired of paying out when there likely wouldn't be a claim if the companies would stop pressuring captains to sail into bad weather.
RIP Gord and the 29 crew members lost in this tragedy, and my best wishes to all surviving family members and friends. The respectful attitude shown to the dead in re this maritime grave is heartening, as are the sterling efforts shown in this fascinating documentary to get at the truth. I'm impressed! Nice one team. 🌟👍
No, you simpleton. The captain sunk the ship. First he allowed it to be overloaded for winter regulations. Then he sailed off into a bad winter storm. He ultimately made the choices that sunk the ship..had he chose to wait it out like captain Paquette did on the northern shoreline. He would have been fine...
@@brentrussell780 the ship was not over loaded. it was just shy from its max legal load signed off by the US Coast guard. every fall the ships get a inspection for the winter shipping season from the coast guard. it was the retro fit and structure changes that should never been made. coast guard also has blame as they deemed the ship sea worthy with the changes. also the cargo hold super structure has a fault that if cargo shifts the angle changes off setting the ship. then you have high waves and very bad weather rocking the ship. the cargo shifted. weather reporting was poor back then and forecasting rating was off. course this info we know is after 30 odd years have past. the captain and crew did their very best and have no blame. it was fate and bad luck.
@@ronbirchard5262 he chose to load it to summer load lines over winter load lines.. then sailed into a winter storm...so yea he did over load it. Then he chose not to take safe refuge like captain Paquette did. So ya.. he sunk the Fitz. You're probably also one those people who think captain Smith wasn't to blame either for steaming the Titanic blind into an ice field despite ice warnings, mill pond seas and no moonlight... the master has responsibilities to minimize risks and consider all factors. When they dont, ships get sunk. Very simple. But sure blame the people sitting at home that day who trust thier employees to make the right decisions after they consider all factors. Over confident old fools sink ships more often than anything else.
Big props to these guys for finally putting this documentary online. Back when I was in my Fitzgerald craze about 3 years ago as I attempted to solve the mystery, I found a short teaser for this episode. I was familiar with Mike Fletcher from The Sea Hunters, so I really wanted to see the episode in full. Now I finally have, and it backs up greatly what I believe most likely happened to Big Fitz and her crew.
After the Fitz went down I just do not understand other than pure greed why these freighters are obligated to be out there in the month of November. We know it’s a brutal month for the lakes.
A) Wrong loading sequence between cargo holds can cause huge stresses on the ship’s structure, if the stresses at any frame exceed 100% there will be a structural failure. B) There are 2 conditions for calculating stresses, sea conditions and port conditions. Port conditions gives more allowances, for example a bm stress of 120% at a sea going condition will be only 80% at port/calm water conditions. C) Iron ore which is avery heavy cargo is loaded at the center of the hold and it creates a slop which from it the cargo is spread to the rest of the hold. The cargo holds are not fully loaded due to the weight of the cargo. There is no way to balance the ship, the ballast water is being pumped out as much as possible to load more cargo during the loading and pumped in during discharge. Ballast water in bulk carries is used only to reduce stresses, make sure that the propellor is submerged, to reduce air draft, to keep the vessel at a minimum draft that will allow the ship to be sea worthy( Without cargo the vessel will float like a ballon with excessive stability). D) When the ship is in Ballast condition need to check that the bilges are not clogged. Rubber packings of hatch covers need to be checked frequently and changed when they show signs of deformation or fatigue . Hatch comings drain channels must be checked that they are not clogged before departure. All cargo hatches must be secured before departure, it’s the chief officer’s responsibility to inform the captain when the ship is ready to depart, it’s the captain’s duty to make sure that all the preparations are made. There are many more things I can write about but I will stop here, if you are interested read bulk carrier practice book for more information.
@@JamesBond-gg4wg For me, your comment highlights how dangerous it is to load to capacity, which, when focused on profit, is what will be done the majority of the time. Now, factor a fully loaded vessel and unexpected conditions and you have a disaster waiting to happen, and the ship was at exactly the worst spot at the worst time. Now, I could be wrong, however it sounds like a fully loaded, improperly maintained vessel went into conditions that were rare to experience, and therefore, unanticipated and unprepared for. Another thing that stand out to me, based on this video, is it sounds like the Fitz was in the storm for a while before it sank, and if the hatches were improperly secured, it would have been taking on water from early in the storm, and therefore, wouldn't go down without warning. And given how little time it takes to send a radio message, they would have at least notified the nearby ships that they were taking on water. I don't care how relaxed a crew is, they don't have a death wish, and would have made sure to check that the ship was prepared for storm conditions before they went into a storm area. While I may be wrong about the time it takes to make these preparations and check them, it seems unlikely to me that a storm such as this could come together fast enough that they wouldn't have had warning they were going to deal with a storm. The severity could catch them off guard, i could see that, but not being unprepared for a storm in general.
If they filled all full tanks with iron ore without any spaces that ship will be dead weight ship because it's doesn't have any balance & unstable center gravity on the ship. I working inside bulk carrier ship so many years ,we have 9 tanks but we filled 7 tanks of iron ore and other 2 tanks are empty to give the ship more stability & balance during the voyage. The hatch covers also we take it seriously to avoid any water fill inside the hatch tank from the bow.Nowadays ,the design of vents system are strong and a lot's of sensor to detect any sea water. The most critical things about bulk carrier ship this the bow because it takes so much force from waves.
@@TinoNate A) please check again the definition of deadweight. B) what you wrote is completely incorrect, what was your position on the ship? Empty cargo holds to improve stability? C) There are mechanical vents and there are natural vents (manual vents) which should be opened or closed as per circumstances, all of them require maintenance and the flaps need to be checked regularly for water tightness
This was a bad storm. My stepfather was driving from central Wisconsin into western Minnesota and got caught in it. From thunderstorms and lighting to thunder-snow and 60 mph winds. Would have been 100 times worse on Lake Superior.
Whenever I hear Gordon sing the song or think about those poor men on the Fitz I break down crying. God how scared they must have been! If there is a heaven I hope they are all there and Gordon is singing them soothing songs with his beautiful voice
I've always been haunted by the tragic story of the Fitzgerald... A thousand thoughts flood my mind and sometimes I'm consumed with the thoughts of its crew and what happened for days at a time...Such a sad piece of History
My brother in law was the chief engineer on the Fitz for years. He probably knew your grandfather. His brother went down with the Fitz. My brother in law retired the year before the Fitz went down. If he hadn't retired two brothers would have been lost.
Wave pushed her bow under. Drove her straight down. Cooper even said his bow got pushed under, but he came back up. The Fitz had a list and was taking water, she couldn't recover. No radio distress, mayday, ect.. she broke on the bottom imo
@@HeathenTruckerno it’s actually quite possible. The Fitzgerald was 729 feet long. It sank in 530 feet of water. That means if it plunges for the bottom bow first nearly 200 feet of the vessel would still be exposed. Secondly if you put the two halves of the ship together as they sit now on the bottom, over 200 feet of the vessel would be missing as it’s been wrenched into small pieces.
Having worked in ship yards, and sailed on them in heavy seas, one thing you haven't mentioned yet, is the ships expansion joints, that allow the ship to flex in storms is usually the place where a ship breaks in to first, the image of the broken welds fits perfectly to an expansion joint
the other sad part of the story is that the families had to live with the thought of it's the crews fault. moms and dads and siblings have past away not knowing the real truth.
@@299charles - part of the trouble is at the time the retro fit work up grade got changed into a change of the structure. at the time the coast guard signed off as fit for service. after and with new tec and knowledge we know that the change should not have been made. the ship had the coast guard late season inspection too 30 days prior.
Men who worked on the ship spoke of cracks in the hull that you could see daylight through, they were told don't worry about it. The Coast Guard said it wouldn't have mattered during the investigations. The film didn't mention that the Anderson had eight FEET of water on its deck that night. those sailors were scared to death. The Coast Guard Rescue boat out of Duluth that night went beyond vertical as the waves that night bounced off the shore and were coming in at three different angles. Captain Mcsorley had his pumps on, why? the pumps on that ship only pump from the ballast tanks. That ship had multiple failures.
The film didn’t mention the possibility of the Fitzgerald bottoming out on 6 Fathom Shoal as it passed Caribou Island. I have always wondered if damage caused by contact with the shoal may have been enough to cause the ship to break up on the surface as it was hit by the waves that Bernie Cooper described.
The most haunting part about this, to me, is the guy talking about hearing his ship tear apart. And just thinking that the guys on the EF might have had, maybe, seconds to even realize what was happening. A wave could have crashed over the pilot house and wiped out anyone inside before they could do anything at all to stop what was coming or even mitigate it. Some of the guys belowdecks might not have even known anything was happening before it was all over.
It reminds me of another video I saw on here with a ship that broke in half, and sank suddenly. While not the same size as the Fitzgerald, it looked like the same type of design. Warnings were given, but more than a few men under the deck had no chance to get out in time, and those seas were NOWHERE near what the sailors went through the night of the Fitzgerald sinking.
I imagine that in those kind of waves that many were seasick too. I don't care how long you've been on a ship or boat.That kind of motion constantly would make you sick.I grew up on one since my mother and grandparents piloted one around the lake. Went deep sea fishing all the time on the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean's. The only time I was seasick was during a storm on the Pacific ocean.
My Dad worked at Wisc. Steel in S. Chicago and about 1974, he brought us all to see the amazing Edmund Fitzgerald which was in harbor at that day. He was very impressed with the size of that big ship. Watching this documentary brought back many memories.
A terrible tragedy occurred, and a terrible travesty followed. Unforgivable was the injustice dealt to the grieving families of the captain and crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald by the official enquiry findings. Hopefully some comfort can come from this excellent production.
I remember hearing the song when I was about 10 years old and it was so scary to me that I had nightmares the first time I heard that song!! I still get creeped out by that song to this day!! How sad for the victims families!!! The investigative work in this video is amazing!!
It's kind of Eerie that at 15:33 the narrator makes the comparison between the Fitz and the Michipicoten when they are passing over the wreck of the Fitz, now knowing what would happen to the Michipicoten this summer.
This is the MOST EXCELLENT episode on the tragedy of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald. The authorative, forensic and deeply experienced evaluations of the Edmund Fitzgerald's tragedy are _outstandingly and humanly detailed_. Thanks to all the professionals who risked life and limb in telling the story of this, a legendary disaster at sea. May those bold and brave seafarers Rest in Peace and also with prayers for their families and friends. ❤
Comprehensive, fascinating... chilling. Gordon's telling lyric: "And every man knew, as the captain did too, T'was the Witch of November come stealin' " Fitz's crew surely knew as the night progressed: Mother Nature is undefeated, lifetime. :(
It's about time we see a new documentary about the Fitz! It was the first song I learned to play on the guitar & I've been obsessed since! THANK YOU!! 😁😁
Something I should point out is the Anderson also sustained notable damage out of this storm which Captain Cooper mentions in one of these YT documentaries on the Fitz. Difference was no fatal hull damage.
Good video. That test at the end with the hose is really unrealistic considering Edmund was facing ocean like storms on that fatal day. It looks like to me. And just my opinion. The Edmund had a major flaw. The design. The sides did not rise up high enough to handle such storms. You can tell they thought the design fits a smooth lake and wasn't thinking storm of the century
The power of water and wind is something that you must respect. Stress on the boat at every seam in violent weather was unrecoverable. A five story wall of water hitting a populated coastline would be deadly. The owners of the Fitzgerald blamed the crew to avoid litigation. Its very sad for them and their families. RIP to them and GL who immortalized the tragedy.
I'm not sure what I admire most: the ingenuity and determination of these researchers, the amazing cooperation and dedication of all the agencies who came together to help, or the triumphant vindication of the Fitz's crew. What the heck. Let's go with all three.
Believe Bernie Cooper nailed it saying the Fitzgerald "Hog'd", or bottomed out near Caribou Island. The 2 Seas the Anderson where hit by caught the Fitz and drove her bow first.
I don’t think the splitting on the surface theory will ever be the main theory. There is evidence for it as the ship was not structurally sound. Despite only being 17 years old she had in the previous 6 years had her keel fixed twice for coming loose. There were also rumors of it happening again in the summer of 75 but they were ignored. A crew mate who had gotten off the ship before the disaster said this but was never interviewed by the USCG’s investigators. The other three ships that were out there the older Arthur M Anderson, and Wilfred Sykes and the new Roger Blough but better structurally. The former two had just been reinforced while the Blough being newer had been built better. The Fitzgerald I heard was overloaded. With those terrible seas and a potentially weak keel she didn’t stand a chance. Plus she wasn’t built with rivets which in the 80’s the Arthur B Homer the sister ship of the Fitzgerald who was built the same way was permanently laid up despite only being lengthened a few years before. Something just isn’t right with that. She could’ve bottomed out but the Captain Mcsorely was a 30+ year Master and Officer. He would’ve known that shoal in any weather. Now, first Mate McCarthy ( no relation that I’m aware of ) was also a master but was demoted after having his ship bottom out, if he was on watch and the ship bottomed out, that could be a possibility. The reason she won’t probably have that be the lead theory is because the Coast Guard would’ve lost even more credibility and the Great Lakes Shipping would’ve taken even more of a hit. There would’ve been lawsuits everywhere. And plus there’d be no mystery! If you want to truly solve or come to a most likely conclusion, then the Keel should be checked, and the logbook to see what they h may have been experiencing. It won’t answer everything but it’ll answer a lot. Plus if Fred Shannon is still alive he should be interviewed too. He knows/knew the wreck better than anyone else.
Lake Superior should not be underestimated, nor should any of the other great lakes. The weather can change in a heartbeat. It can go from a dead calm day where the water is like glass, to massive waves that will catch even the best sailors/anglers off guard.
Is it an apples to apples comparison between the Morrell and the Fitzgerald, though? The Morrell was a vastly older vessel (1906) that had a hull made of brittle steel, something that wasn't changed until almost the 1950s. It was neat to see the Calumet at, presumably, the Port Colburne marine scrap yard.
I was wondering if you could do a video covering the harrying of the north? It’s such an important yet forgotten part of English history, northern England still hasn’t recovered nearly 1000 years later, and it’s a big reason why the north-south divide is even a thing.
You’re assuming any of them actually did, and it wasn’t just used for dramatic effect in the documentary. Also no engineer involved in the building of the Titanic ever called her unsinkable.
I recall when it happened there was just a news clipping about the tragety , Gordcon Lightfoot saw this and thaught these men deserve recognition for what happened , so he wrote the song " The wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald" to honour the sailors who perrished, so wonderful.
What I have always believed is that it hit a 20 - 30 foot wave and dipped down then at the worst time another 30 foot wave came over it and kinda swallowed it quicker than it could recover.
As a Michigan native we all heard and talked about the fitz. Theres a theory that because the ship sits in a lower point than the ship was long and when the fitzgerald was going down the water opened up suddenly and the bow slammed into the bottom. Look at the pictures of the hull. The hull looks like a accordion and the wheel house looks to be pushed forward. As well as everything that is in the pilothouse is pushed completely forward up against the forward wall indicating a sudden and violent crash. The reason y its in 2 pieces because the bow was already dug in the seabed and the gale battered the stern as it was cracked open. Also there was remains found far off the bow with a life preserver on. Almost like the person was instantly thrown from the cabin on impact. But thats just 1 of many theories of what happened
I remember as a kid going to a gas station that had a fish tank with a model of the Edmunds Fitzgerald in it. My uncle used to ship on the great lakes and the problem with the lakes is there are no tides and the storms cause waves to go all ways
personally, i dont think it was either. All the evidence points towards her taking on water, which, when she hit a trough, saw her break deep, strike the bottom of the seabed, split and thats why her rear half is upside down. it was simply a matter of circumstance that no-one could have forseen or stopped (remember, the Fitz was an old ship)
I agree with your initial assessment, there’s nothing new or groundbreaking in this documentary, just another look at an old mystery. However, if you look at the evidence collected by multiple sources, there is nothing to indicate that the Fitz ever scraped the bottom. That has been a long standing theory but has never been substantiated, despite numerous studies on the ship’s course and the shoal that she supposedly hit. Also, the Fitz was not an old ship by any means, only 17 years old when she sank. There are ships still sailing the lakes at well over 100 years old because they don’t see the same wear and tear as salt water vessels do.
But it’s not entirely improbable. Rogue waves can come out of nowhere. That’s not even factoring in the weight of the cargo or the water the ship had already taken.
As an ex Australian Navy and Army Veteran but as an 18 yrs old Navy man my first ship was HMAS MELBOURNE our Aircraft carry in 1975 tell 1984 some 6 months after this terrible incident, In the lndian Ocean l was on the Bridge as lookout when a couple of waves broke on the Bridge while in a terrible storm. Yes very scary and lots of damage. Those poor men. R.I.P ❤ l love it when non sailors talk about the ocean and seas . We only know what happens and unfortunately we are dead to tell. 10 th of November 1975, l had just turned 18 on the 9 th of November and been in then Navy for 4 months and heard of this Ship missing. God Bless those Souls R.I.P ❤
Thank you!! I have been looking for this documentary for 4 years. Until now it has only been available on Amazon in Canada. I appreciate the airing on YT. My obsession with the Edmund Fitzgerald began with Gordon Lightfoot’’s song… It has haunted me.
I've worked in the steel industry for 25 years ! For the most part maintenance is second rate at best! An overloaded Fitz with poor maintenance in a heavy storm has always been my assumption
I'm no expert but I think the fact that the two pieces of the ship and the debris field on the floor of Lake Superior speaks volumes. All three are close together suggesting to me that the Fitzgerald went down nose first, in one piece, and snapped when the bow hit bottom.
I just watched this on Nov 10th 2024 at 7:00pm 49 years after the Fitz sank! Amazing work CANADA! Its a mystery that has been solved! Goren Lightfoot's song at the end was a real tear jerker!
I've seen waves on lake erie keep snowballing until they are 4 times as big as what the wave starts off as ... The weight of that water is incredibly significant... It will push a ship straight down and the stress will snap it like a twig in 75mph wind . God rest the people and thier families in all tragedies
Their water pressure test using the hose and a "similar" cargo freighter was....Lacking. Their method didn't account for flexing and twisting due to the storm. Though I have also always doubted the crew would've left the hatches unsecure to have caused the sinking! Just pointing out the flawed test to discount it.
It's not illegal scan anything from the surface. The Act protects the wreck from being disturbed in any way or from people diving on it. It's a protected gravesite not area 51.
How insane the company investigators try to say that the crew was complacement during the worst storm imaginable. As if they wouldn’t check and tighten those clamps every hour in that storm
@panzerabwerkanone it's shallow, the edmund is 735ft long, she is sitting 500 ft down...the 1st boat they showed was only 180feet down...when a big storm comes in this lake the waves bounce off the lakebed amplifying them and shortening the intervals, if you have a 30m wave it also will have a 30m trough, so that is 90 feet up, 90 feet down and than,in the case of the fitz, 200-300 feet to the bottom from the lowest point of that trough that our 700 ft ocean sized tanker is going headfirst downhill into
I hope some of the surviving family has lived long enough to see this. Those men on board did their jobs, and should have never been blamed. Tragedy they made even more traumatic.
I'm from the Lowcountry-Hilton Head Island SC originally. I've been out on the Atlantic during just small storms, and I know how frightening that was. I have never been go the Great Lakes but have heard that it's actually much more intense! God Bless them and their families!
Lived in Wisconsin for 10 years . Visited Lake Superior one summer and watched one of these monster ships load up and roll out. How amazing they are to handle these situations. 🎉
This was incredibly done, love the science tests. Theirs a huge percentage of the captains and crews of ships that's never learned how to swim. I know locally 99% of them can't swim, and yet they risk it every fishing season being out there in that unforgiving sea.
Even regular storm waves can trash the decks and superstructure. As the ship sinks and lists, those areas are pummeled by waves and crushed. They aren't strong like hull plates.
Whether the hatch coverings are to blame or not that water test they performed with the fire hose was just total BS. There were thousands of tons of water washing over the deck, not some piddly little jet concentrated on a few square inches. The ship was hogging and torquing so the hatch coverings were flexing away from and onto the holds, even a quarter inch gap will let in a lot of sea water and this was going on for hours around the entire perimeter of the cover. There were no bulkheads within the cargo bay so the entire payload would have been shifting forwards and backwards as well as side to side. If the ship started listing it would stay listing and only get worse unless a wave managed to right it and distribute the taconite more evenly. This said I believe that due to the inaccuracy of the charts and the significant extra weight she was carrying the Fitzgerald bottomed out and at the very least lost the structural integrity of her keel plates.
Thanks, this is the comment I was looking for. My thoughts entirely - a hose pipe cannot compare to the weight and pressure of the 8 metre waves that sank the Fitzgerald! That supposed test of the hatches was an utter farce!
It is easy to say "crew neglect" because there is no one left to say any different.
You’re correct here. No one to defend what actually happened that night. That’s why I will always defend Capt Bernie Cooper’s explanation of what he believes happened.
Interestingly enough they waited till 2006 to make it illegal to dive on the EF where as previously it wasn't by either the USCG or the Canadian Government even after a submersible "tour" of the exterior discovered human remains in the mid to late 90's that were allegedly missed by DSD's of both countries inquiry and investigation in to the wreck in the early to mid 80's to prove their incident reports were factually accurate and did not need to be amended to change the cause of the sinking and upholding the crew at fault premise. Many experts outside of those in both the USCG NTSB and it's Canadian counterparts have all disputed the official findings upon seeing the 4k video of the wreck outside of those in this video so why continue to lie about it?
💯 I’ve read quite a few reports on various boats that have sank… I feel like this is common tbh.
@@sharonglazier2552 Many of the crew still have family to defend them.
@@BonnieDragonKat True. I don't know one way or another but I will always give the crew the benefit of the doubt.
The bell now rings 30 times, once more to Gordon Lightfoot who enshrined the tragedy of the Edmund Fitzgerald who we lost this time last year. RIP to Gord and the crew of 29
If it wasn’t for Gordon Lightfoot I’d have never heard of the tragedy that befell the Edmund Fitzgerald.
His song has ensured the unfortunate crew will,not be forgotten
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?“ 😢
SenorTuca, same here. I’ve been a Lightfoot fan since I was 13, and this song was so different than anything else that he wrote. Did you know that the recording was the first take at the recording session? None of Gord’s band had ever played the song before, but the recording engineer decided to record it anyway. Talk about the perfect moment when everything went right at the same time! As a studio musician I know how extremely rare that is! All the royalties from the song went to the families of the 29 men who went down with the Fitz as they called her. I bless Gord for bringing the world’s attention to this maritime tragedy. RIP Gord and Red Shea who played the fabulous electric guitar licks on this recording.
Gordon Lightfoot, a legendary singer who also bound himself to the legacy of the Fitz with his haunting song.
We don't realize how powerful our great lakes are.
I'm a lake Huron solo sailor, and I'm a welder fabricator, they water tested a non twisting and non rolling ship, even with clamps done a worn out twisting ship in my eyes will leak a lot! No blame to the sea men!! Blame falls on the money holders, they lived happy lives and that's wrong
The corrupt coast guard repeatedly certified the unsafe ship. The owners and Insurance company were at fault
Metal fatigues and will eventually break. It came down to corporate greed and lack of routine maintenance. Those sailors did everything right. Fatigue and overloading of waterlogged ore broke it in half. RIP to those brave souls!
The first thing....the VERY first thing suffer budget cuts is always maintenance. Company not making enough money? Cut the maintenance budget and lay off your Shipwrights.
U are correct
@@tresco303lithgow4 The coast guard has many problems, however as a member for 12 years I personally never spotted the corruption you speak of. You may want to read a true account of the blizzard of 78 titled "Ten Hours Until Dawn" before bad mouthing the coast guard.
My grandfather had friends that died on the Edmund Fritzgerald, thank you for creating this to remember them and RIP all who died onboard that ship.
My dad had a cousin who sailed on the fitz her first 2 years. And dad grew up in Ashland WI and knew one of the crrw mwmbers that went down with the rest of the crew.😮😮
My sister's brother in law went down with the Fitz. Ironically my sister's husband had been the chief engineer on the Fitz for many years. He retired due to my sister's urging the year before the Fitz went down. Talk about luck. Had he not retired, two brothers would have been lost.
Remarkable investigation that absolves the crew. Tragic on so many levels. Greed. Exploitation. Cutting corners. Very informative. I sailed as a passenger in 1982 on a small freighter to South Georgia, South Atlantic. It had been chartered by the RN and I was part of 30 man British Army team. The crew were indigenous St. Helenians. Incredible sailors. We hit a F11 storm approaching Shag Rock (or maybe just passed it). The skill of the crew was staggering. We got through unscathed but the two cargo holds were pulverised. We’d lost all our rations, fuel, some ammunition. But the St. Helena was in one piece, as were we. Nothing but respect for sailors, merchant or military.
The Captain of the Anderson was behind the Fitzgerald and said he had been hit by 2 rogue waves less than a ship length apart and the Fitzgerald went down about the time he figured the waves would have hit the Fitzgerald and disappeared from his radar. The crew was not to blame for the ships loss, but the greed of the owners and the weather are the culprits.
Well Said ❤Mate 😊
Same type of greed did the Titanic in as well.
It was the captains fault for not taking refuge on the north side of the lake like like captain Paquette did... old over confidant fools full of hubris are not uncommon.
@michaelmills7543 no greed sunk the Titanic you simpleton. It was the captains fault the Titanic sunk, for steaming into a ice field on a moonless night and not taking extra precautions... despite numerous ice warnings.
@@brentrussell780 YEA
Well done documentary.
As someone who grew up on the lakes and lost a uncle on the Bradley it's really nice to see someone cover this topic with this much sensitivity toward the families of those lost. So many docs just gloss over the human toll for a bunch of statistics.
Except the makers' error in using "infamous" instead of what they really meant, "famous." Use a dictionary, guys.
I grew up in a town on Lake St Clair, we used to go for boat rides and see these monsters all the time.
When you're 10 yrs old and doing the " Trucker horn pump" and the freighter blasts his horn for you, You're King of The World.
I remember when she went down. The entire town was sad. It was a difficult time.
I’m a flatlander. I watch these shows to learn and to appreciate the men that risk their lives to transport goods across the water. RIP 🚢
I know absolutely nothing about ships, sailing, but I'm truly fascinated by all of these documentaries, and the bravery of all these men. God bless them.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours..."
Ye make your own luck out there on the water. Waves & water spouts don't attend church.
That was a truly great tribute that Gordon Lightfoot did in respect for the crew and their ship.
As a man from Michigan, THANK YOU for shedding light on this beautiful but tragic ship for the young ones
It’s weird how Wisconsin Illinois and even Michigan (who didn’t have a stop for the Fitzgerald) all own this tragedy.
I was out with my buddy hunting duck on
Lake Saint Clair the day the Fitzgerald was
lost, I got soaked hauling in the decoys because of the winds. We heard the radio
broadcast of the news on the way home
from the lake. Will never forget that day.
I was on the oil tanker M.V. Lakeshell in 1975. We were too far away in Lake Superior from the Edmond Fitzgerald to help her. Our crew did experience high waves in Lake Huron, but the chief engineer took on ballast to sink us like a submarine, so we survived. Also our design as a tanker (bridge and engine room positioned on the stern) helped, as not to twist to cause a breakup of the metal structure. The angels were looking over us that time. 😇
Remarkable story.
there is a doc done by a father and son who are ship wreck hunters. well known with credentials for under water exploration. they debunked the faulty hatch idea. they went into all the history of the ship. records inspection etc, looked at sister ships and construction practices. weather simulation and in the bridge simulation. went to a wave machine research and found out about rouge waves and that they come in 3s. the rov video showed wheel house and other damages that prove waves hit.
over all 3 rouge hit the ship and down she went. they sent the new info to the coast guard to have the report changed and record set straight.
the wheel house simulator really tells how the ship took wave after wave and the last one crashing into the wheel house.
When a storm is coming you Batten Down the Hatches and double check them. Never bought the story that the Captain or Crew were at fault. No Way.
@patriciafeehan7732 Agreed!! I'm of a mind that human greed (IMO in the overloading of ore) and Mother Nature in all her fury are the key factors. God bless the crew and all those who loved them -- Gordon Lightfoot too.
Especially since those crew members combined had centuries of experience. Captain McSorley alone had over 40 years in.
Inspection of the wreck conclusively shows clamps which were not properly fastened. There is no question of this.
I had an uncle who was a merchant marine and he told me they of course, always steered clear of hurricanes/typhoons, but before they got within a certain vicinity or if they knew any kind of storm was coming the FIRST order of business was to make sure all hatches were secure and everything was tied down. I to don’t buy the story that those hatches were not secure. The ones the Coast Guard reportedly found loose probably popped loose as the ship broke apart. Sometime in the future I hope they re-examine the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald because I don’t buy the Coast Guard’s report.
@@charlesfaure1189 That is true, but how do we know they did not pop loose when the ship broke apart. Every type of metal has a certain elasticity to it and they could’ve sprung loose when the ship broke up. Also read the other comment I just posted here. My uncle, who was a merchant marine told me securing everything prior to a storm was paramount and I’m pretty sure the guys on the Edmund Fitzgerald did just that.
The fact they tried to blame the crew is the most disgusting part of this story. The investigators and company owners should all be slapped with something heavy and jagged. That Ship was their home on the water and regardless of lax attitudes in calm weather, as soon as it turned sour they would have been racing around making sure everything was buttoned up tight, laziness was not an option. The fact they were overloaded is what sunk the ship, they may have withstood the storm as the other other ships did if loaded correctly, this was the owners fault not the Crews.
Because it most likely was crew error. Or atleast partially.
@@HeathenTruckerwhich is why modern ships are built to have more room for human error, along with strict load weights, and weather related.
there is also a theory (i'm not sure if it's presented in this video) that due to the heavy weight, and the relatively shallow lake, vs an ocean depth, caused the ship to go completely vertically in the water, with the nose hitting the bottom of the lake, causing it to snap in half. if that is what happened, there is very little the crew could've done to keep the ship intact
@JimAllen-PersonaThere are first-person interviews out there that confirm the captain regularly delayed taking on fuel until after they had loaded, so they could exceed their weight restriction. The company apparently loved it, as well as the quick fixes to patch it together instead of intensive regular maintenance. The Fitz hauled a lot and had minimal downtime, but at what cost?
@JimAllen-PersonaI’m from superior wi, my dad worked for BNSF at those taconite docks they left for 30+ years. There’s talk that they were overloaded, taconite is heavy, but he left the dock way before the Sykes. Anderson left two harbors mn way before Fitz left superior. She passed the Anderson even tho Anderson was already on the move. The storm definitely took her out. Lake Superior, she’s absolutely stunning, but you never ever underestimate her
Just as you can't say it's the crews fault as there isn't enough evidence to prove they were at fault you can't say it went down because it was overloaded as there isn't enough evidence to prove that's why it went downn. I think it's very possible and even likely maybe that in the very least it may have contributed to the sinking but we don't know for sure. There was no mayday call so likely it was a rogue wave but again that can't be proven.
Has anyone noticed. Everytime you hear a bell ring it rings periodically in the video. In total it rang 29 times.
If you're counting the number of bell rings in a 47 minute video, perhaps you have too much time on your hands🤔🤣
30 I heard
@@brettpettinger9200when it haunts you that much you do notice . Time is all that matters in life.. You should take more time to recognize things in life .
@@adamwagner1987 #30 for Gordon Lightfoot.
@@brettpettinger9200 So you're the one. There is always at least one.
I will preface this with that I’m writing this comment before finishing the video. As a Great Lakes sailor myself working on the boats out here I have to say this a good video! Personally I believe what they say about the bow flooding I believe what happened is that they were in the storm taking waves over the pilot house and radioed that they had water coming in. But the reason for no call saying they were going down or anything of the sort was because the water they sank in was shallower than the boat was long and I believe they crested a wave water and cargo rushed forward and where they thought they were going to pop back that it drove them nose first into the bottom before they even knew they were going down which caused her to snap in the middle
as a Michigander, this is the story ive been taught my entire life along with the "three sisters" theory.
yeah it makes the most sense
Born and raised in Michigan my whole life and I remember when the Fitz sank. I firmly believe she hit the three sisters mentioned by Captain Bernie Cooper. Once her bow was plunged under water and probably hit bottom, that still left over 200 feet of the ship out of the water and the hull couldn't handle it and she broke her back.
I'm sure that ship building has gotten even better, but a former Capt on the Lakes made a comment about the ship losses that stayed with me. Most ships go down are run by "Company" men who do whatever it takes to make a run on time, and (more significantly), they make that one last run of the season. What changed after the Fitz is that the insurance companies refused to insure any ship that made a run when the weather predicted severe storms (like the Witch of November). I'm no fan of insurance companies, they bleed just about every segment of society, but that decision took the choice to sail out of the Captain's hands, and companies stopped pressuring the Captain as well.
It's extremely rare when the insurance company is the good guys in a story. But I guess they were tired of paying out when there likely wouldn't be a claim if the companies would stop pressuring captains to sail into bad weather.
I live in the Great Lakes system-- the storms are unreal here, and no part of this waterway likes to give up the dead. Superior is just better at it.
RIP Gord and the 29 crew members lost in this tragedy, and my best wishes to all surviving family members and friends.
The respectful attitude shown to the dead in re this maritime grave is heartening, as are the sterling efforts shown in this fascinating documentary to get at the truth.
I'm impressed! Nice one team. 🌟👍
It was greed that sunk that ship. Corporate greed. Corporate greed will sink us all.
No, you simpleton. The captain sunk the ship. First he allowed it to be overloaded for winter regulations. Then he sailed off into a bad winter storm. He ultimately made the choices that sunk the ship..had he chose to wait it out like captain Paquette did on the northern shoreline. He would have been fine...
@@brentrussell780 the ship was not over loaded. it was just shy from its max legal load signed off by the US Coast guard. every fall the ships get a inspection for the winter shipping season from the coast guard. it was the retro fit and structure changes that should never been made. coast guard also has blame as they deemed the ship sea worthy with the changes. also the cargo hold super structure has a fault that if cargo shifts the angle changes off setting the ship. then you have high waves and very bad weather rocking the ship. the cargo shifted. weather reporting was poor back then and forecasting rating was off. course this info we know is after 30 odd years have past. the captain and crew did their very best and have no blame. it was fate and bad luck.
@@ronbirchard5262 he chose to load it to summer load lines over winter load lines.. then sailed into a winter storm...so yea he did over load it. Then he chose not to take safe refuge like captain Paquette did. So ya.. he sunk the Fitz. You're probably also one those people who think captain Smith wasn't to blame either for steaming the Titanic blind into an ice field despite ice warnings, mill pond seas and no moonlight... the master has responsibilities to minimize risks and consider all factors. When they dont, ships get sunk. Very simple. But sure blame the people sitting at home that day who trust thier employees to make the right decisions after they consider all factors. Over confident old fools sink ships more often than anything else.
Big props to these guys for finally putting this documentary online. Back when I was in my Fitzgerald craze about 3 years ago as I attempted to solve the mystery, I found a short teaser for this episode. I was familiar with Mike Fletcher from The Sea Hunters, so I really wanted to see the episode in full. Now I finally have, and it backs up greatly what I believe most likely happened to Big Fitz and her crew.
After the Fitz went down I just do not understand other than pure greed why these freighters are obligated to be out there in the month of November. We know it’s a brutal month for the lakes.
A) Wrong loading sequence between cargo holds can cause huge stresses on the ship’s structure, if the stresses at any frame exceed 100% there will be a structural failure.
B) There are 2 conditions for calculating stresses, sea conditions and port conditions. Port conditions gives more allowances, for example a bm stress of 120% at a sea going condition will be only 80% at port/calm water conditions.
C) Iron ore which is avery heavy cargo is loaded at the center of the hold and it creates a slop which from it the cargo is spread to the rest of the hold. The cargo holds are not fully loaded due to the weight of the cargo. There is no way to balance the ship, the ballast water is being pumped out as much as possible to load more cargo during the loading and pumped in during discharge. Ballast water in bulk carries is used only to reduce stresses, make sure that the propellor is submerged, to reduce air draft, to keep the vessel at a minimum draft that will allow the ship to be sea worthy( Without cargo the vessel will float like a ballon with excessive stability).
D) When the ship is in Ballast condition need to check that the bilges are not clogged. Rubber packings of hatch covers need to be checked frequently and changed when they show signs of deformation or fatigue . Hatch comings drain channels must be checked that they are not clogged before departure. All cargo hatches must be secured before departure, it’s the chief officer’s responsibility to inform the captain when the ship is ready to depart, it’s the captain’s duty to make sure that all the preparations are made.
There are many more things I can write about but I will stop here, if you are interested read bulk carrier practice book for more information.
Awesome comment!!!
@@HeathenTrucker Thank you
@@JamesBond-gg4wg For me, your comment highlights how dangerous it is to load to capacity, which, when focused on profit, is what will be done the majority of the time. Now, factor a fully loaded vessel and unexpected conditions and you have a disaster waiting to happen, and the ship was at exactly the worst spot at the worst time.
Now, I could be wrong, however it sounds like a fully loaded, improperly maintained vessel went into conditions that were rare to experience, and therefore, unanticipated and unprepared for.
Another thing that stand out to me, based on this video, is it sounds like the Fitz was in the storm for a while before it sank, and if the hatches were improperly secured, it would have been taking on water from early in the storm, and therefore, wouldn't go down without warning. And given how little time it takes to send a radio message, they would have at least notified the nearby ships that they were taking on water.
I don't care how relaxed a crew is, they don't have a death wish, and would have made sure to check that the ship was prepared for storm conditions before they went into a storm area. While I may be wrong about the time it takes to make these preparations and check them, it seems unlikely to me that a storm such as this could come together fast enough that they wouldn't have had warning they were going to deal with a storm. The severity could catch them off guard, i could see that, but not being unprepared for a storm in general.
If they filled all full tanks with iron ore without any spaces that ship will be dead weight ship because it's doesn't have any balance & unstable center gravity on the ship. I working inside bulk carrier ship so many years ,we have 9 tanks but we filled 7 tanks of iron ore and other 2 tanks are empty to give the ship more stability & balance during the voyage. The hatch covers also we take it seriously to avoid any water fill inside the hatch tank from the bow.Nowadays ,the design of vents system are strong and a lot's of sensor to detect any sea water. The most critical things about bulk carrier ship this the bow because it takes so much force from waves.
@@TinoNate A) please check again the definition of deadweight.
B) what you wrote is completely incorrect, what was your position on the ship? Empty cargo holds to improve stability?
C) There are mechanical vents and there are natural vents (manual vents) which should be opened or closed as per circumstances, all of them require maintenance and the flaps need to be checked regularly for water tightness
This was a bad storm. My stepfather was driving from central Wisconsin into western Minnesota and got caught in it. From thunderstorms and lighting to thunder-snow and 60 mph winds. Would have been 100 times worse on Lake Superior.
Whenever I hear Gordon sing the song or think about those poor men on the Fitz I break down crying. God how scared they must have been! If there is a heaven I hope they are all there and Gordon is singing them soothing songs with his beautiful voice
The courage of the men who sail this most dangerous stretch of water daily is beyond belief.
I've always been haunted by the tragic story of the Fitzgerald... A thousand thoughts flood my mind and sometimes I'm consumed with the thoughts of its crew and what happened for days at a time...Such a sad piece of History
My grandfather was a doc on the Fitz for years, but retired 6 months before her loss. Even got a peice of the Fitz ancore
My brother in law was the chief engineer on the Fitz for years. He probably knew your grandfather. His brother went down with the Fitz. My brother in law retired the year before the Fitz went down. If he hadn't retired two brothers would have been lost.
Wave pushed her bow under. Drove her straight down. Cooper even said his bow got pushed under, but he came back up. The Fitz had a list and was taking water, she couldn't recover. No radio distress, mayday, ect.. she broke on the bottom imo
That’s something that’s impossible to do.
@@HeathenTruckerno it’s actually quite possible. The Fitzgerald was 729 feet long. It sank in 530 feet of water. That means if it plunges for the bottom bow first nearly 200 feet of the vessel would still be exposed. Secondly if you put the two halves of the ship together as they sit now on the bottom, over 200 feet of the vessel would be missing as it’s been wrenched into small pieces.
Having worked in ship yards, and sailed on them in heavy seas, one thing you haven't mentioned yet, is the ships expansion joints, that allow the ship to flex in storms is usually the place where a ship breaks in to first, the image of the broken welds fits perfectly to an expansion joint
the other sad part of the story is that the families had to live with the thought of it's the crews fault. moms and dads and siblings have past away not knowing the real truth.
*passed
It most likely was the crews fault
Yeah because they didn’t stand up to the big corporations and say we’re not going to sail on an overloaded ship…..just for more profits!!!
@@299charles - part of the trouble is at the time the retro fit work up grade got changed into a change of the structure. at the time the coast guard signed off as fit for service. after and with new tec and knowledge we know that the change should not have been made. the ship had the coast guard late season inspection too 30 days prior.
It was the crews fault. Captain overloaded it... then sailed it into a bad storm. Not sure how that makes it anyone else fault.
So much cheaper to blame the crew.
Essy to blame a dead crew
Men who worked on the ship spoke of cracks in the hull that you could see daylight through, they were told don't worry about it. The Coast Guard said it wouldn't have mattered during the investigations. The film didn't mention that the Anderson had eight FEET of water on its deck that night. those sailors were scared to death. The Coast Guard Rescue boat out of Duluth that night went beyond vertical as the waves that night bounced off the shore and were coming in at three different angles. Captain Mcsorley had his pumps on, why? the pumps on that ship only pump from the ballast tanks. That ship had multiple failures.
The film didn’t mention the possibility of the Fitzgerald bottoming out on 6 Fathom Shoal as it passed Caribou Island. I have always wondered if damage caused by contact with the shoal may have been enough to cause the ship to break up on the surface as it was hit by the waves that Bernie Cooper described.
I felt the despair of that elderly shipbuilder who talked about the freight company's lack of concern for human lives.
The most haunting part about this, to me, is the guy talking about hearing his ship tear apart. And just thinking that the guys on the EF might have had, maybe, seconds to even realize what was happening. A wave could have crashed over the pilot house and wiped out anyone inside before they could do anything at all to stop what was coming or even mitigate it. Some of the guys belowdecks might not have even known anything was happening before it was all over.
It reminds me of another video I saw on here with a ship that broke in half, and sank suddenly. While not the same size as the Fitzgerald, it looked like the same type of design. Warnings were given, but more than a few men under the deck had no chance to get out in time, and those seas were NOWHERE near what the sailors went through the night of the Fitzgerald sinking.
I imagine that in those kind of waves that many were seasick too. I don't care how long you've been on a ship or boat.That kind of motion constantly would make you sick.I grew up on one since my mother and grandparents piloted one around the lake. Went deep sea fishing all the time on the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean's. The only time I was seasick was during a storm on the Pacific ocean.
Then there's the one where the captain led his crew of 32 int a hurricane. 😢@@chocolatetownforever7537
My Dad worked at Wisc. Steel in S. Chicago and about 1974, he brought us all to see the amazing Edmund Fitzgerald which was in harbor at that day. He was very impressed with the size of that big ship. Watching this documentary brought back many memories.
The weather is no joke on the Great Lakes, living here I seen some massive waves in the fall seasons through the years
A terrible tragedy occurred, and a terrible travesty followed. Unforgivable was the injustice dealt to the grieving families of the captain and crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald by the official enquiry findings. Hopefully some comfort can come from this excellent production.
I remember when this happened. Waiting to hear about if they have been located. It was sad news.
I remember hearing the song when I was about 10 years old and it was so scary to me that I had nightmares the first time I heard that song!! I still get creeped out by that song to this day!! How sad for the victims families!!!
The investigative work in this video is amazing!!
Last survivor of the SS Morrell, Denis Hale, died in 2015. Crazy to no longer have someone alive to tell a story like that
It's kind of Eerie that at 15:33 the narrator makes the comparison between the Fitz and the Michipicoten when they are passing over the wreck of the Fitz, now knowing what would happen to the Michipicoten this summer.
This is the MOST EXCELLENT episode on the tragedy of the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald.
The authorative, forensic and deeply experienced evaluations of the Edmund Fitzgerald's tragedy are _outstandingly and humanly detailed_.
Thanks to all the professionals who risked life and limb in telling the story of this, a legendary disaster at sea.
May those bold and brave seafarers Rest in Peace and also with prayers for their families and friends.
❤
I'm so glad I saw this video. I've never believed the crew left a hatch open. AWESOME documentary.
Comprehensive, fascinating... chilling.
Gordon's telling lyric: "And every man knew, as the captain did too, T'was the Witch of November come stealin' "
Fitz's crew surely knew as the night progressed: Mother Nature is undefeated, lifetime. :(
17:05 In case anyone was wondering. Ransom E. Cundy,s (the watchman) daughter, Janice Cundy Miller died through domestic violence on March 31,1974.
Terrible. Rest in Peace.
Wow watching that simulator gave me chills, after being in that I would never get on another boat
Well done. The best video yet on the Edmond Fitzgerald
It's about time we see a new documentary about the Fitz! It was the first song I learned to play on the guitar & I've been obsessed since! THANK YOU!! 😁😁
Thorough, respectful and even handed in it approch.this is the best video i have seen on the fitz.thank you so much for this wonderful documentary.
I thought this video was very well done. Lots of new info provided. Thank you!
Brave of Dennis to go out there. I would have never went near the ocean again if I were him.
He didn’t for a long time, took him a couple decades just to talk about it.
For the record, it's not the ocean but it may as well be. It's a big deep cold lake.
Something I should point out is the Anderson also sustained notable damage out of this storm which Captain Cooper mentions in one of these YT documentaries on the Fitz. Difference was no fatal hull damage.
Good video. That test at the end with the hose is really unrealistic considering Edmund was facing ocean like storms on that fatal day. It looks like to me. And just my opinion. The Edmund had a major flaw. The design. The sides did not rise up high enough to handle such storms. You can tell they thought the design fits a smooth lake and wasn't thinking storm of the century
Corporate greed continues to kill with no regard for human life to this very day.
Bless the innocent.
Mankind seems to forget that you don’t mess with Mother Nature. Such tragedy! May the 29 rest in peace.
The power of water and wind is something that you must respect. Stress on the boat at every seam in violent weather was unrecoverable. A five story wall of water hitting a populated coastline would be deadly. The owners of the Fitzgerald blamed the crew to avoid litigation. Its very sad for them and their families. RIP to them and GL who immortalized the tragedy.
I'm not sure what I admire most: the ingenuity and determination of these researchers, the amazing cooperation and dedication of all the agencies who came together to help, or the triumphant vindication of the Fitz's crew. What the heck. Let's go with all three.
A truly amazing story!! Thank you for the video!!
I learned of the Edmund Fitzgerald disaster from Gordon Lightfoot's song. That's how old that was
So did I but it was my dad that played it. Guess that shows my age too, lol. 🎉
I bet that one guy who survived the other wreck just hates that song
That song has always given me chills...and still does.
1975 wasn’t that long ago
I was 1 month shy of my 15th birthday when this happened. I remember hearing about it on the news. Yes, I am that old. 😉
Very good documentary!! 👍🏼⛴️🙏🏼🫡
great info just reading the comments here. i did not know the royalties from the song went to the families. Good man was Gord.
Believe Bernie Cooper nailed it saying the Fitzgerald "Hog'd", or bottomed out near Caribou Island. The 2 Seas the Anderson where hit by caught the Fitz and drove her bow first.
I don’t think the splitting on the surface theory will ever be the main theory. There is evidence for it as the ship was not structurally sound. Despite only being 17 years old she had in the previous 6 years had her keel fixed twice for coming loose. There were also rumors of it happening again in the summer of 75 but they were ignored. A crew mate who had gotten off the ship before the disaster said this but was never interviewed by the USCG’s investigators. The other three ships that were out there the older Arthur M Anderson, and Wilfred Sykes and the new Roger Blough but better structurally. The former two had just been reinforced while the Blough being newer had been built better. The Fitzgerald I heard was overloaded. With those terrible seas and a potentially weak keel she didn’t stand a chance. Plus she wasn’t built with rivets which in the 80’s the Arthur B Homer the sister ship of the Fitzgerald who was built the same way was permanently laid up despite only being lengthened a few years before. Something just isn’t right with that. She could’ve bottomed out but the Captain Mcsorely was a 30+ year Master and Officer. He would’ve known that shoal in any weather. Now, first Mate McCarthy ( no relation that I’m aware of ) was also a master but was demoted after having his ship bottom out, if he was on watch and the ship bottomed out, that could be a possibility. The reason she won’t probably have that be the lead theory is because the Coast Guard would’ve lost even more credibility and the Great Lakes Shipping would’ve taken even more of a hit. There would’ve been lawsuits everywhere. And plus there’d be no mystery! If you want to truly solve or come to a most likely conclusion, then the Keel should be checked, and the logbook to see what they h may have been experiencing. It won’t answer everything but it’ll answer a lot. Plus if Fred Shannon is still alive he should be interviewed too. He knows/knew the wreck better than anyone else.
So sad and to think they blamed the crew may they rest in eternal peace.
Because all evidence then and now show that it was both the crew and the weather..
Lake Superior should not be underestimated, nor should any of the other great lakes. The weather can change in a heartbeat. It can go from a dead calm day where the water is like glass, to massive waves that will catch even the best sailors/anglers off guard.
Is it an apples to apples comparison between the Morrell and the Fitzgerald, though? The Morrell was a vastly older vessel (1906) that had a hull made of brittle steel, something that wasn't changed until almost the 1950s.
It was neat to see the Calumet at, presumably, the Port Colburne marine scrap yard.
Don’t forget the Bradley. Built in 1927 and split in two and sank in Lake Michigan in November 1958.
I was wondering if you could do a video covering the harrying of the north? It’s such an important yet forgotten part of English history, northern England still hasn’t recovered nearly 1000 years later, and it’s a big reason why the north-south divide is even a thing.
Engineers need to stop calling their ships unsinkable. It never seems to end well
Engineers never call a ship unsinkable. Even the Titanic wasn't called unsinkable. It was the media that called it unsinkable.
You’re assuming any of them actually did, and it wasn’t just used for dramatic effect in the documentary. Also no engineer involved in the building of the Titanic ever called her unsinkable.
I recall when it happened there was just a news clipping about the tragety , Gordcon Lightfoot saw this and thaught these men deserve recognition for what happened , so he wrote the song " The wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald" to honour the sailors who perrished, so wonderful.
What I have always believed is that it hit a 20 - 30 foot wave and dipped down then at the worst time another 30 foot wave came over it and kinda swallowed it quicker than it could recover.
As a Michigan native we all heard and talked about the fitz. Theres a theory that because the ship sits in a lower point than the ship was long and when the fitzgerald was going down the water opened up suddenly and the bow slammed into the bottom. Look at the pictures of the hull. The hull looks like a accordion and the wheel house looks to be pushed forward. As well as everything that is in the pilothouse is pushed completely forward up against the forward wall indicating a sudden and violent crash. The reason y its in 2 pieces because the bow was already dug in the seabed and the gale battered the stern as it was cracked open. Also there was remains found far off the bow with a life preserver on. Almost like the person was instantly thrown from the cabin on impact. But thats just 1 of many theories of what happened
I remember as a kid going to a gas station that had a fish tank with a model of the Edmunds Fitzgerald in it. My uncle used to ship on the great lakes and the problem with the lakes is there are no tides and the storms cause waves to go all ways
More please! Love interesting new perspective and investigation in 2024. Well done and really enjoyed.
More!!
The fact it’s so cold down there, the potential of bodies still being partially preserved is a profound thought to realise…
personally, i dont think it was either. All the evidence points towards her taking on water, which, when she hit a trough, saw her break deep, strike the bottom of the seabed, split and thats why her rear half is upside down. it was simply a matter of circumstance that no-one could have forseen or stopped (remember, the Fitz was an old ship)
I agree with your initial assessment, there’s nothing new or groundbreaking in this documentary, just another look at an old mystery. However, if you look at the evidence collected by multiple sources, there is nothing to indicate that the Fitz ever scraped the bottom. That has been a long standing theory but has never been substantiated, despite numerous studies on the ship’s course and the shoal that she supposedly hit. Also, the Fitz was not an old ship by any means, only 17 years old when she sank. There are ships still sailing the lakes at well over 100 years old because they don’t see the same wear and tear as salt water vessels do.
@@SierraRailwayThe Arthur Anderson herself is still sailing at over 70 years old.
But it’s not entirely improbable. Rogue waves can come out of nowhere. That’s not even factoring in the weight of the cargo or the water the ship had already taken.
the Anderson was older, the Anderson was also better Kept Up
As an ex Australian Navy and Army Veteran but as an 18 yrs old Navy man my first ship was HMAS MELBOURNE our Aircraft carry in 1975 tell 1984 some 6 months after this terrible incident, In the lndian Ocean l was on the Bridge as lookout when a couple of waves broke on the Bridge while in a terrible storm. Yes very scary and lots of damage. Those poor men. R.I.P ❤ l love it when non sailors talk about the ocean and seas . We only know what happens and unfortunately we are dead to tell. 10 th of November 1975, l had just turned 18 on the 9 th of November and been in then Navy for 4 months and heard of this Ship missing. God Bless those Souls R.I.P ❤
Great to see some updated simulations and information. We keep learning more and more about rogue waves and what they can do.
Really interesting, God Bless the crew 🙏
Thank you!! I have been looking for this documentary for 4 years. Until now it has only been available on Amazon in Canada. I appreciate the airing on YT. My obsession with the Edmund Fitzgerald began with Gordon Lightfoot’’s song… It has haunted me.
I've worked in the steel industry for 25 years ! For the most part maintenance is second rate at best! An overloaded Fitz with poor maintenance in a heavy storm has always been my assumption
This needs a full production all star cast AAA production big time movie. Crazy story
What do you mean all star cast? You gonna fund an expedition to the ship?
@@twilightparanormalresearch186 what
I’ve been waiting for years for someone like James Cameron to do a very nice production of this story. Just like the Titanic and the Andrea Gayle.
I'm no expert but I think the fact that the two pieces of the ship and the debris field on the floor of Lake Superior speaks volumes. All three are close together suggesting to me that the Fitzgerald went down nose first, in one piece, and snapped when the bow hit bottom.
I just watched this on Nov 10th 2024 at 7:00pm 49 years after the Fitz sank! Amazing work CANADA! Its a mystery that has been solved! Goren Lightfoot's song at the end was a real tear jerker!
I've seen waves on lake erie keep snowballing until they are 4 times as big as what the wave starts off as ... The weight of that water is incredibly significant... It will push a ship straight down and the stress will snap it like a twig in 75mph wind . God rest the people and thier families in all tragedies
Their water pressure test using the hose and a "similar" cargo freighter was....Lacking. Their method didn't account for flexing and twisting due to the storm. Though I have also always doubted the crew would've left the hatches unsecure to have caused the sinking! Just pointing out the flawed test to discount it.
Or 35 foot seas with 12 feet of ocean on the deck
@@HeathenTrucker Which would cause the flexing and twisting. Those poor souls were screwed by timing and circumstances not of their making. :(
3:30
Recent sonar scans?
It’s been illegal to do any sonar surveys on the Fitz since 2006 with the Ontario Heritage Act.
those are old scans...recent is subjective
It's not illegal scan anything from the surface. The Act protects the wreck from being disturbed in any way or from people diving on it. It's a protected gravesite not area 51.
This documentary has to have been quite old. It was established back in 2010 that human error did not cause the sinking
@@terminallumbago6465 well they were 15 % aboce designed limit..thats human error
@@terminallumbago6465 Dennis Hale, the lone survivor from the SS Morrell, died in 2015. I estimate this doc to be from around 2010.
How insane the company investigators try to say that the crew was complacement during the worst storm imaginable. As if they wouldn’t check and tighten those clamps every hour in that storm
Shallow lake with ocean sized waves, she went over a possible rogue(but it didn't have to be) into the trough and straight into the lakebed
Shallow lake? Average depth 147m. Deepest 406m. Not exactly shallow. Definitely deeper than say Lake Erie at 64m.
@panzerabwerkanone it's shallow, the edmund is 735ft long, she is sitting 500 ft down...the 1st boat they showed was only 180feet down...when a big storm comes in this lake the waves bounce off the lakebed amplifying them and shortening the intervals, if you have a 30m wave it also will have a 30m trough, so that is 90 feet up, 90 feet down and than,in the case of the fitz, 200-300 feet to the bottom from the lowest point of that trough that our 700 ft ocean sized tanker is going headfirst downhill into
@@Epckyou might have 180 feet between the peak and trough, but they're not headed straight down without another wave coming to bouy them back up.😊
@panzerabwerkanone sorry the 1st ship was huron
I suspect the bow went underwater and just didn't come back up, the stress snapped the ship in half and it landed on the bottom of the way it did
I hope some of the surviving family has lived long enough to see this. Those men on board did their jobs, and should have never been blamed. Tragedy they made even more traumatic.
I'm from the Lowcountry-Hilton Head Island SC originally. I've been out on the Atlantic during just small storms, and I know how frightening that was. I have never been go the Great Lakes but have heard that it's actually much more intense! God Bless them and their families!
Lived in Wisconsin for 10 years . Visited Lake Superior one summer and watched one of these monster ships load up and roll out. How amazing they are to handle these situations. 🎉
This was incredibly done, love the science tests.
Theirs a huge percentage of the captains and crews of ships that's never learned how to swim. I know locally 99% of them can't swim, and yet they risk it every fishing season being out there in that unforgiving sea.
Even regular storm waves can trash the decks and superstructure. As the ship sinks and lists, those areas are pummeled by waves and crushed. They aren't strong like hull plates.
My gpa was on the Blough (ship sent to try and save the sailors).
Whether the hatch coverings are to blame or not that water test they performed with the fire hose was just total BS.
There were thousands of tons of water washing over the deck, not some piddly little jet concentrated on a few square inches.
The ship was hogging and torquing so the hatch coverings were flexing away from and onto the holds, even a quarter inch gap will let in a lot of sea water and this was going on for hours around the entire perimeter of the cover.
There were no bulkheads within the cargo bay so the entire payload would have been shifting forwards and backwards as well as side to side. If the ship started listing it would stay listing and only get worse unless a wave managed to right it and distribute the taconite more evenly.
This said I believe that due to the inaccuracy of the charts and the significant extra weight she was carrying the Fitzgerald bottomed out and at the very least lost the structural integrity of her keel plates.
Thank you! You said it soooo much better than I did
Thanks, this is the comment I was looking for. My thoughts entirely - a hose pipe cannot compare to the weight and pressure of the 8 metre waves that sank the Fitzgerald! That supposed test of the hatches was an utter farce!