Another take on PWM: abandon the idea that there is one “right” temperature, since as distillation progresses, the overall boiling point slowly creeps up. Instead, look at your drip rate. Leave the power at 100% till product starts coming out, then back that down till you are getting an ideal drip rate, say three drops per second with the occasional spurt for a small pot still. With an occasional adjustment to keep that flow even, you may be surprised to find that there is a sweet spot (% power) where you are supplying just enough juice to balance the system: enough to distill and slowly raise the temperature with minimal intervention. The digital version of these controllers is a big help in that regard, since it’s almost impossible to fine tune using only a dial. With a little record keeping to establish some baselines, it’s also possible to use a timer and temperature controller reading at the vapor head to shut down the system to avoid getting heavily into tails if you get distracted or have to tend to other business.
Would you recommend a PWM like this? I know some people on the forums hate on George For some of the things he does but this seems good to me. Im in the process of getting a controller put together so this stuff I new to me, I used to use propane.
@@Hanson423 I think George provides a very valuable service. Think of him as the ideal undergraduate teacher.. prepared to deal with the un/knowledgeable, yet once a concept is introduced he can take you way up the learning curve quickly.
@@bobtheelectrician6692 I agree, I think he’s a great “tool” for anyone that’s wants to learn or needs help understanding something! Do you this PWM is good starting point for someone new in the electric still world?
Always great to hear from our good buddy George no matter the subject although this one has many confused and we can only hope this puts this one to bed. I would love to see a video on reflux column packing there is so many different packing available I would love to see the results for different packing using the same wash and still and just change the packing to see which one gives the best results.
I have a Turbo 500 which I use with the Alembic Copper dome as a Pot Still. I use an SCR from Harbour Freight and it works perfectly and costs $30. Effectively this is just a dimmer switch. It requires very little adjustment during a run. I use the thermometer at the start of the condenser and the flow rate to make adjustments during the run. www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html
@@anonymousbastard2981 That's good information. The T500 is 1600 watts and the SCR does get pretty warm after several hours. So, it's probably right on the edge.
George, as always I enjoy and learn from your channel. Where did you get the 120V digital PWM? I can find 240 but not 120. Again thank you for being you.
I got 2! Thanks George for the heads up. Great price, actual blown glass. If I made it I would burn through $500 in glass before I ever got one to work.
George, my friend, another PWM, PID explanation? Ha. You're doing a great job at a complicated subject. As an EE, it physically hurts to see you have to explain it so many times. The PID is the control formula, PWM is the control method. They really aren't related. I can explain more if you want. Luv the channel. Looking to run my first batch as soon as it cools off here in TX.
Precisely. PID is one of several methods for establishing the amount of power to be delivered to the load while PWM is one of several methods of increasing the precision of delivery of that power. These two methods aren't mutually exclusive, since they concern different aspects of power distribution. Actually, a PID control loop with a PWM delivery method is the best. PWM is still an "ON/OFF" delivery system, the essential difference being that the switching is done at a high enough frequency that the thermal inertia of the heating element is accounted for and taken out of the equation, therefore allowing for much smaller "swings" around the set point (including all the intermediate set points along the way there).
INTEGRATION IS THE ESSENCE OF PWM. Here's a (very coarse) analogy to help people better understand the difference between a simple ON/OFF delivery system and a PWM ON/OFF one: compare a slideshow with a movie. They are both objectively just sequences of still images, but there's one key difference. The slideshow contains several snapshots at various moments in the action, but they're "frozen in time" and seemingly unrelated to each other; there's no way to discern the dynamic path from one picture to the next, anything could have happened inbetween. The movie, on the other hand, takes advantage of our sensory system's *inertia*, and also (and this is ESSENTIAL) of our brain's ability to *integrate* pictures into fluid motion, *if* the images are presented with *high enough* frequency. This results in a much more precise perception of the path taken by various elements from their initial position to the end and of the dynamic relations between them. Upon power-on, the heating element does not go instantly to its maximum operating temperature; it has a "ramp-up" of progressive temperatures over time and the same thing happens when the power is turned off: there's a "ramp-down" time to ambient temperature. These durations are very small compared to the total operation time of the element for a specific task. In a simple ON/OFF system they are negligible, both ON and OFF durations are generally much larger. PWM on the other hand takes advantage of these ramp-up and -down periods by switching between ON and OFF states fast enough that the element doesn't get to either fully cool down or fully heat up (unless intended). The energy pumped into the system is effectively *INTEGRATED* inside the heating element by means of its thermal inertia. This allows for increased precision of delivery. Deciding how much power needs to be delivered to the system and when is the business of "higher powers", i.e. the control loop - which might very well be a PID one.
Scr proportional power controllers are the way to go. They allow really fine balance and control. I have PID as well but use that to control the top temp the system can run at. Great to preheat if busy. Set scr to 100% pid to heat to just below (10 degrees) production temp and go and have my supper. Come back and its ready to quickly bring up to production. Then I turn up the setting on the pid to max temp I want to avoid tails. Then use the scr to control the balance and production volume.
George, Have you used the SSR that has the 500k resistive input and a built in pwm? I picked one up just out of curiosity. I haven't done much with it besides just hook a meter to it but it would make a super compact PWM controller.
Hi George, love watching your vids here in the uk, even though some of the info goes right over my head. I am, at the moment, just a home brewer so could I ask you a question please? I have just purchased a hand pull for my beer which I will connect to a "beer in the box" bag. The challenge I have is in connecting up the tap on the bag containing the beer. There is a gizmo that I've seen being used but I have no idea what it's called so HELP PLEASE!. If you have any idea what it's called and perhaps where I can get one it would be very much appreciated. Keep up the good work my friend.
George I wish I could understand the reason why the voltage indicator doesn't change on the 240 model. As the pulse width range is adjusted up or down the voltage goes up and down with the amps. It would be so much more satisfying to see it change so we could calculate wattage easily at a glance. Is it just the controller can't monitor the voltage and only displays the full available voltage which would be kind of redundant? head scratching here. Love your videos though and thank you for all your hard work!
#Happy Distilling from NOLA!! I went with a PWM for my homemade pot still (ala Big Blue). I'm a mother hen when doing a run, so adjusting settings is part of who I am. Though I have found sweet spot settings that keep fiddlin' to a minimum. It's set up where I can see the temp. readout from my desk, so I can watch tv/TH-cam etc. Works for me anyway. This is SO MUCH FUN!!! If I work hard and fast enough, I can ALMOST keep up with my drunk a$$ moochy friends!!!
Hi , just did my first run on my t 500 4.5 litres from 25 ltrs sugar wash...surprised me a bit , got a consistent 94% but took 5-6 hours smells pretty bad chemical with a hint of ass, just ordered the EZ filter system hope this gets rid of it , any hints or tips ? temperature was 51 C pretty consistently. thanks m8.
My reason is that with 1 porter's element will take about 1hr an 20 minutes to start dripping. I've got a temp gage on pot, an one on a bourbon ball at top.
Slight clarification to all this. Your earlier PID control uses math to PREDICT an outcome based on rate of change compared against the prosees value(PV) (temperature) and a set point (170F). Now, the difference between the PV and set point basically drives an output between a minimum an max output value. Your PID control turning on the element more in a set period is result. Basically you could take a PID out, let's say 30% and go over and set you SCR knob to 30% and that is the predicted value to achieve your set point. As you get closer to set point that percent backs off. Now, if you take a PID controller and have it drive an SCR, you are in the money. The PID replaces your stubby finger pressing the up and down arrow on your SCR box. Get it? Also an SCR is much better at driving a heater as it's only using partial power. Less cooking and shocking of the mash and a smooth transition between incrementing temperature. You can also use a higher wattage element without worry by limiting the SCR output. Bunch of fun stuff here.
Would you be able to do a short video on how you built these pwm controllers? I"ve seen the videos you did 2yrs back but these controllers look different.
Just go back and watch that video and then buy the parts listed there. You can get the new PWM from amazon using this link: www.amazon.com/Digital-Voltage-Regulator-Control-Thermostat/dp/B075QZ9GZT/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=SCR+electronic+voltage+regulator+240+volt+ac&qid=1596333305&sr=8-4
I hope you have a triac in there (or two SCRs). An SCR is unidirectional (i.e. passes current in only one direction - DC). To efficiently pass AC you need two SCRs connected head to tail. Two SCRs connected in this way are available in a single package. This is called a triac.
Hi I want to make rum and I can only get instant dry yeast how much yeast do I need for using 25 kilogram molasses and 15 kilogram brown sugar with 160 liter ?
... although I did not write it down which is which watching your own/pid video the first time, to me you described the difference between a dimmer switch on a light (rehyostat) and a microwave temperature controller. Can you buy these on Amazon also? (My apologies if I didn't spell the "r" word correctly. Spell check requires one to know how to spell what you want before substituting something entirely different! Thank you for your intelligent information. Tim
I've become intrigued by the idea of using a water/ethanol 'molecular sieve' material in distilling. Possibly a highly efficient column packing medium? etc... anyone have thoughts?
PWM and PID are two methods that are destined to be together. When you marry them, using a PID to set the PWM value, you get amazing consistency and accuracy.
@@robertt1782 a lot of the purchased PID controllers tend to be binary - they switch the element on and off, so you get a lot of bounce around your setpoint - slight overshoot, drops under etc. tighter control than a thermostat, but still clunky. PWM without a PID controller requires human input and quite a bit of trial and error. using PID to set a PWM factor means you are controlling the power to element in finer detail - so as you get closer to your setpoint the PWM factor gets lower so your power into the element drops. PWM/PID combo means your element is never truly off so you can push minute current in and sit and your required temp. I have come across a few very nice PID controllers that are PID controlled PWM (discovered via checking output via oscilloscope). I haven't got one of George's yet so i'm not sure what his are
@@kelvindavis-smith1223when you talk about a PID controlling the PWM, are you still using an SSR? Isn't the SSR what pulses the on/off? And what kind of PID would you be using? Something like the cheap inkbird types only do on/off based on temperature right? So would you need a different type of PID to get a more stable/constant/gradual heat output? Some of this stuff is going above my head and I'm inclined to just use a PWM and babysit the boil.
I see glass chemistry distilling aparatus in the back ground. Any thoughts to share on that distillation method? I know it is slow, but anything else to know?
@@josephkordinak1591 On the inkbird you have to set it to pid and automatic then when you hold down the left arrow until the run light comes on it goes into percent power mode when you hold it down until the run light goes out you're back in pid mode.
Well. Distilling over for now, cousin's wife threw a shit fit and had to move all my gear out of their back yard garage. 2nd time in a month! This isn't the 1930s frig..
@@MrJaycz80 When a sinewave is clipped one or both peaks are flattened, it is most commonly observed when audio amplifiers are overloaded. An SCR is basically a switch that can be used to vary the power to a load by being switched on and off by external circuitry using PWM or some other form of pulse modulation. The use of the term SCR in this discussion is probably incorrect, an SCR is a unidirectional device so would never apply full power to the load, it is more likely a TRIAC that is being used which is a bidirectional device and would be capable of varying the power from zero to maximum.
@@Bernie_the_Bolt like George in this video you are only partly correct, yes a triac is used but there is no pwm used as using pwm to control a triac can result in situations were the triac doesn't turn off due to the high frequency of pwm signals, usually in the kHz to MHz range. I think you will find that the triac is triggered by a simple voltage divider and capacitor timing circuit. Yes again you're part right in say that a triac will never deliver full power, but that is only because of the 1 to 2 volts needed to turn the triac on and when we are talking 110 to 240 volts range you'd have more losses than that getting power to your device, but the kicker for me is for some reason you know this but still fail to see how the sign wave is being clipped by the triac. Full marks for effort though, nice try ☺️
Another take on PWM: abandon the idea that there is one “right” temperature, since as distillation progresses, the overall boiling point slowly creeps up. Instead, look at your drip rate.
Leave the power at 100% till product starts coming out, then back that down till you are getting an ideal drip rate, say three drops per second with the occasional spurt for a small pot still. With an occasional adjustment to keep that flow even, you may be surprised to find that there is a sweet spot (% power) where you are supplying just enough juice to balance the system: enough to distill and slowly raise the temperature with minimal intervention.
The digital version of these controllers is a big help in that regard, since it’s almost impossible to fine tune using only a dial.
With a little record keeping to establish some baselines, it’s also possible to use a timer and temperature controller reading at the vapor head to shut down the system to avoid getting heavily into tails if you get distracted or have to tend to other business.
Would you recommend a PWM like this? I know some people on the forums hate on George For some of the things he does but this seems good to me. Im in the process of getting a controller put together so this stuff I new to me, I used to use propane.
@@Hanson423 I think George provides a very valuable service. Think of him as the ideal undergraduate teacher.. prepared to deal with the un/knowledgeable, yet once a concept is introduced he can take you way up the learning curve quickly.
@@bobtheelectrician6692 I agree, I think he’s a great “tool” for anyone that’s wants to learn or needs help understanding something! Do you this PWM is good starting point for someone new in the electric still world?
Thank You for the great lesson. It’s PID for this old Marine.
Always great to hear from our good buddy George no matter the subject although this one has many confused and we can only hope this puts this one to bed. I would love to see a video on reflux column packing there is so many different packing available I would love to see the results for different packing using the same wash and still and just change the packing to see which one gives the best results.
I have a Turbo 500 which I use with the Alembic Copper dome as a Pot Still. I use an SCR from Harbour Freight and it works perfectly and costs $30. Effectively this is just a dimmer switch. It requires very little adjustment during a run. I use the thermometer at the start of the condenser and the flow rate to make adjustments during the run. www.harborfreight.com/router-speed-control-43060.html
Just don't try that router controller on anything higher than 1500 watts. For grins tried it with a 2k watt element-it melted.
@@anonymousbastard2981 That's good information. The T500 is 1600 watts and the SCR does get pretty warm after several hours. So, it's probably right on the edge.
@DiegoRodriguez I have a digbroil same is Turbo 500 an I was jus looking for something to control the temperature better..thanks for the link👍
Thanks very much for your videos. Has helped me out with my craft.
your the godfather of distilling.
Good explanation. Makes better sense now. Thanks
I really like the way you explained things I hope to get to know you more sire
George, as always I enjoy and learn from your channel. Where did you get the 120V digital PWM? I can find 240 but not 120. Again thank you for being you.
I got 2! Thanks George for the heads up. Great price, actual blown glass. If I made it I would burn through $500 in glass before I ever got one to work.
George, you are the man!
George, my friend, another PWM, PID explanation? Ha. You're doing a great job at a complicated subject. As an EE, it physically hurts to see you have to explain it so many times. The PID is the control formula, PWM is the control method. They really aren't related. I can explain more if you want. Luv the channel. Looking to run my first batch as soon as it cools off here in TX.
Precisely. PID is one of several methods for establishing the amount of power to be delivered to the load while PWM is one of several methods of increasing the precision of delivery of that power. These two methods aren't mutually exclusive, since they concern different aspects of power distribution. Actually, a PID control loop with a PWM delivery method is the best.
PWM is still an "ON/OFF" delivery system, the essential difference being that the switching is done at a high enough frequency that the thermal inertia of the heating element is accounted for and taken out of the equation, therefore allowing for much smaller "swings" around the set point (including all the intermediate set points along the way there).
INTEGRATION IS THE ESSENCE OF PWM.
Here's a (very coarse) analogy to help people better understand the difference between a simple ON/OFF delivery system and a PWM ON/OFF one: compare a slideshow with a movie. They are both objectively just sequences of still images, but there's one key difference. The slideshow contains several snapshots at various moments in the action, but they're "frozen in time" and seemingly unrelated to each other; there's no way to discern the dynamic path from one picture to the next, anything could have happened inbetween. The movie, on the other hand, takes advantage of our sensory system's *inertia*, and also (and this is ESSENTIAL) of our brain's ability to *integrate* pictures into fluid motion, *if* the images are presented with *high enough* frequency. This results in a much more precise perception of the path taken by various elements from their initial position to the end and of the dynamic relations between them.
Upon power-on, the heating element does not go instantly to its maximum operating temperature; it has a "ramp-up" of progressive temperatures over time and the same thing happens when the power is turned off: there's a "ramp-down" time to ambient temperature. These durations are very small compared to the total operation time of the element for a specific task. In a simple ON/OFF system they are negligible, both ON and OFF durations are generally much larger.
PWM on the other hand takes advantage of these ramp-up and -down periods by switching between ON and OFF states fast enough that the element doesn't get to either fully cool down or fully heat up (unless intended). The energy pumped into the system is effectively *INTEGRATED* inside the heating element by means of its thermal inertia. This allows for increased precision of delivery.
Deciding how much power needs to be delivered to the system and when is the business of "higher powers", i.e. the control loop - which might very well be a PID one.
Scr proportional power controllers are the way to go. They allow really fine balance and control. I have PID as well but use that to control the top temp the system can run at. Great to preheat if busy. Set scr to 100% pid to heat to just below (10 degrees) production temp and go and have my supper. Come back and its ready to quickly bring up to production. Then I turn up the setting on the pid to max temp I want to avoid tails.
Then use the scr to control the balance and production volume.
George, Have you used the SSR that has the 500k resistive input and a built in pwm? I picked one up just out of curiosity. I haven't done much with it besides just hook a meter to it but it would make a super compact PWM controller.
Hi George, love watching your vids here in the uk, even though some of the info goes right over my head. I am, at the moment, just a home brewer so could I ask you a question please? I have just purchased a hand pull for my beer which I will connect to a "beer in the box" bag. The challenge I have is in connecting up the tap on the bag containing the beer. There is a gizmo that I've seen being used but I have no idea what it's called so HELP PLEASE!. If you have any idea what it's called and perhaps where I can get one it would be very much appreciated. Keep up the good work my friend.
George I wish I could understand the reason why the voltage indicator doesn't change on the 240 model. As the pulse width range is adjusted up or down the voltage goes up and down with the amps. It would be so much more satisfying to see it change so we could calculate wattage easily at a glance. Is it just the controller can't monitor the voltage and only displays the full available voltage which would be kind of redundant? head scratching here. Love your videos though and thank you for all your hard work!
#Happy Distilling from NOLA!! I went with a PWM for my homemade pot still (ala Big Blue). I'm a mother hen when doing a run, so adjusting settings is part of who I am. Though I have found sweet spot settings that keep fiddlin' to a minimum. It's set up where I can see the temp. readout from my desk, so I can watch tv/TH-cam etc. Works for me anyway. This is SO MUCH FUN!!! If I work hard and fast enough, I can ALMOST keep up with my drunk a$$ moochy friends!!!
Do you have a video on the build for this pwm with the digital control and display.
Hi , just did my first run on my t 500 4.5 litres from 25 ltrs sugar wash...surprised me a bit , got a consistent 94% but took 5-6 hours smells pretty bad chemical with a hint of ass, just ordered the EZ filter system hope this gets rid of it , any hints or tips ? temperature was 51 C pretty consistently. thanks m8.
My reason is that with 1 porter's element will take about 1hr an 20 minutes to start dripping. I've got a temp gage on pot, an one on a bourbon ball at top.
Slight clarification to all this. Your earlier PID control uses math to PREDICT an outcome based on rate of change compared against the prosees value(PV) (temperature) and a set point (170F). Now, the difference between the PV and set point basically drives an output between a minimum an max output value. Your PID control turning on the element more in a set period is result. Basically you could take a PID out, let's say 30% and go over and set you SCR knob to 30% and that is the predicted value to achieve your set point. As you get closer to set point that percent backs off.
Now, if you take a PID controller and have it drive an SCR, you are in the money. The PID replaces your stubby finger pressing the up and down arrow on your SCR box. Get it?
Also an SCR is much better at driving a heater as it's only using partial power. Less cooking and shocking of the mash and a smooth transition between incrementing temperature. You can also use a higher wattage element without worry by limiting the SCR output.
Bunch of fun stuff here.
Would you be able to do a short video on how you built these pwm controllers? I"ve seen the videos you did 2yrs back but these controllers look different.
Just go back and watch that video and then buy the parts listed there. You can get the new PWM from amazon using this link: www.amazon.com/Digital-Voltage-Regulator-Control-Thermostat/dp/B075QZ9GZT/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=SCR+electronic+voltage+regulator+240+volt+ac&qid=1596333305&sr=8-4
I hope you have a triac in there (or two SCRs). An SCR is unidirectional (i.e. passes current in only one direction - DC). To efficiently pass AC you need two SCRs connected head to tail. Two SCRs connected in this way are available in a single package. This is called a triac.
Does your shop sell these units? How could we get a hold of them?
Hi
I want to make rum and I can only get instant dry yeast how much yeast do I need for using 25 kilogram molasses and 15 kilogram brown sugar with 160 liter ?
Good information for the tinkerer
... although I did not write it down which is which watching your own/pid video the first time, to me you described the difference between a dimmer switch on a light (rehyostat) and a microwave temperature controller. Can you buy these on Amazon also? (My apologies if I didn't spell the "r" word correctly. Spell check requires one to know how to spell what you want before substituting something entirely different! Thank you for your intelligent information. Tim
...see what I mean! I typed "PWN", not "own"!
I've become intrigued by the idea of using a water/ethanol 'molecular sieve' material in distilling. Possibly a highly efficient column packing medium? etc... anyone have thoughts?
Auber EZboil for the win!
Where can I get PWM and how much 240v
Decisions decisions 😉
Thanks George. #HAPPYDISTILLING
PWM and PID are two methods that are destined to be together. When you marry them, using a PID to set the PWM value, you get amazing consistency and accuracy.
@@robertt1782 a lot of the purchased PID controllers tend to be binary - they switch the element on and off, so you get a lot of bounce around your setpoint - slight overshoot, drops under etc. tighter control than a thermostat, but still clunky.
PWM without a PID controller requires human input and quite a bit of trial and error.
using PID to set a PWM factor means you are controlling the power to element in finer detail - so as you get closer to your setpoint the PWM factor gets lower so your power into the element drops. PWM/PID combo means your element is never truly off so you can push minute current in and sit and your required temp.
I have come across a few very nice PID controllers that are PID controlled PWM (discovered via checking output via oscilloscope). I haven't got one of George's yet so i'm not sure what his are
@@kelvindavis-smith1223when you talk about a PID controlling the PWM, are you still using an SSR? Isn't the SSR what pulses the on/off? And what kind of PID would you be using? Something like the cheap inkbird types only do on/off based on temperature right? So would you need a different type of PID to get a more stable/constant/gradual heat output? Some of this stuff is going above my head and I'm inclined to just use a PWM and babysit the boil.
@@mattrogers3250 Yes, still using the SSR - i built an ardiuno PID PWM controller for my still
I see glass chemistry distilling aparatus in the back ground. Any thoughts to share on that distillation method? I know it is slow, but anything else to know?
I use it for chemistry application during my research.
Kind of hard to get any volume when you are restricted to 500 ml volume.
Spent 12hrs today distilling.might switch to manual heat control.
So a pwm is like a automatic dimmer switch?!
Hey George where can I find that pwm 120w
email me for details
Email sent
Can you use the pid as a pwm by adjusting percentage of power instead of setting the temp. If so how do you do it.
You can run a PID in manual and set what percentage you want.
@@josephkordinak1591 How do you put the mypin in manual mode.
@@shaknit I have no idea, I looked at the manual for it. If you have an ink bird you go to output settings and then to control mode and go to manual.
@@josephkordinak1591 On the inkbird you have to set it to pid and automatic then when you hold down the left arrow until the run light comes on it goes into percent power mode when you hold it down until the run light goes out you're back in pid mode.
Well. Distilling over for now, cousin's wife threw a shit fit and had to move all my gear out of their back yard garage. 2nd time in a month! This isn't the 1930s frig..
Comparing the PID with the PWM it seems the PWM requires more attention
:( India doesn't ship to Aussie, I'll stick to my copper one .. DANG
Seems overcomplicatwd to me just use a simmerstat 🙂
That is a possibility but these are dedicated on/off based on a fixed timing cycle. Makes fine tuning difficult but not impossible. Good point
SCR doesn't do PWM they sign wave clip, but hey yet another good try.....
Wrong
@@Bernie_the_Bolt care to explain yourself?
@@MrJaycz80 When a sinewave is clipped one or both peaks are flattened, it is most commonly observed when audio amplifiers are overloaded. An SCR is basically a switch that can be used to vary the power to a load by being switched on and off by external circuitry using PWM or some other form of pulse modulation. The use of the term SCR in this discussion is probably incorrect, an SCR is a unidirectional device so would never apply full power to the load, it is more likely a TRIAC that is being used which is a bidirectional device and would be capable of varying the power from zero to maximum.
@@Bernie_the_Bolt like George in this video you are only partly correct, yes a triac is used but there is no pwm used as using pwm to control a triac can result in situations were the triac doesn't turn off due to the high frequency of pwm signals, usually in the kHz to MHz range. I think you will find that the triac is triggered by a simple voltage divider and capacitor timing circuit. Yes again you're part right in say that a triac will never deliver full power, but that is only because of the 1 to 2 volts needed to turn the triac on and when we are talking 110 to 240 volts range you'd have more losses than that getting power to your device, but the kicker for me is for some reason you know this but still fail to see how the sign wave is being clipped by the triac. Full marks for effort though, nice try ☺️
@@MrJaycz80 You are talking about a chopped sinewave not a clipped sinewave as in my first post, also pwm is not restricted to high frequency.