George, the vapor flow going up travels through “risers”. At least that’s what there called in chemical plants and refineries. The trays are there to promote liquid vapor contact to effect the temperature change to send lighter molecules up and allow heavier ones down.
I love mine and it help my proof and I love my PID you sent me I would recommend everyone get one from George its so easy to maintain my temp.Thanks again George Happy Distilling.
I use a 1/4" line connected to a tiny brass needle valve to control the water to my dephlegmator and that works flawlessly. That will give you precision control over the water flow. I run my dephlegmator and my shotgun condenser independently. In other words, I don't connect their water lines together at all. Very convenient!
I run my setup the same way saves a bunch on ice since the hot water from the dephlegmator is used to melt my sugar for the next batch and not the ice and a needle value is the only way to get the exact water flow
Excellent video George you got me very interested in building a deflamrater and a multi stage bubble plate going to start designing the whole still with all they bells and whistles Happy Distilling
Hey George! I have not commented lately, but this one was super interesting. Hats off to you for teaching me something new just when I start thinking I've seen it all. Thanks
Many small distilleries use bubble plates, and they are very common in the whiskey and bourbon world with smaller batch style stills. Most bourbon/whiskey makers that use these batch stills use 4 or less plates when distilling bourbon/whiskey mashes. If your getting too high of a proof or not enough flavor, just disable a plate. Additionally, bubble plates require less power to create the velocity needed to move the ethanol up the column compared to perforated plates because of the liquid bed on the trays. The required velocity needed to move the ethanol up a column is a big deal when you begin to move past the 4" wide columns, not so much on smaller columns.
Thank you for stressing the use of a Dephlegmator George! I am wondering what you tend to distill with your glass setup in the background. I use mine for acid distillations.
George it's been a few months since watching your channel. This has been a video I have been waiting to see. Perfect demonstration of the bubble plates and use of the Dephlegmator and the interaction. Look forward in trying my small setup to make some gin to see how it comes out. As your buddy says, "Chasing the Craft and for you George, keep up the informative videos and "Happy Distilling"
I think ive watched other videos on this from you before as well . I love watching your videos George , nobody does distilling videos better than you. ! That's my dream set-up , I'm saving for it right now actually. I can't wait to try one out . I appreciate you sharing all your valuable knowledge with us . Your the best George , Take care sir.
George have you ever checked out an armagnac still? They use bubble plates but instead of reflux chamber they introduce preheated wash to the top of their column. It then goes threw the plates. Suppose to capture a lot of the lost esters. Used for a type of brandy but wondered if it could be used for other types of washes?
CONGRATULATIONS George you made it 100k subscribers can't think of anyone who deserves it more thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us in a way we can all understand I know most of us really appreciate your hard work. Now we have to get Bearded and Jesse up there with you because you all bring a different perspective on our thing.
Great explanation as always George. I had been looking at these and wondering, WHY? I don't do neutral runs, I'm looking for FLAVOR 😉 Thanks and have a great Holiday Weekend 🥃 #HAPPYDISTILLING !!
George, they have these bubble plates in stainless steel. They self clean as the alcohol vapor passes through the column. No need to disassemble which is a pain. Check Aliexpress.
Fantastic attitude and wonderful energy; I can tell you're passionate about this and you want other people to understand it too! You have my subscription, and I'm looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Better yeilds are to be had by increasing reflux from the reflux drum "dephlegnator" and keeping a level on all of the trays. Suppressing water vapors to fall down the down-comer, which should have a steady flow keeping the tray below it supplied with a level without flooding the tray or covering the cap completely. This is called loading the colomn. Thats how bubble caps and sieve trays are designed to work properly. To do this you need to set your tray temperature a few degrees above the OH temp with the bottoms temp in cascade. This is a column temperature profile. The top tray temp is the master and the bottoms temp the slave. This is how we distill hydrocarbons in the refinery. Of course you have to control the level in the reflux drum as well , which is in cascade to the feed flow to the boiler. This is contolled by increasing or decreasing the product out to the final holding tank or "jug" or whatever. However it may be difficult unless you have a continuous flow of cude material "unrefined heavy ends" or bottoms product to keep a level in the base or boiler. But then again its just a hobby and thats probably too elaborate for most hobby distillers. In my opion, using bubble caps is such a process is ludicrous if you aren't using the control systems to have a proper column profile. Meaning temperature level and flow controlers. While we are at it we mights as well throw on some vacuum compressors and distill at 92 deg F. Im for it. Someone setup a Delta V HMI and lets make some moonshine. 😂😂
As usual, great vid George. I see you had the bubble tube at the top, but does it matter if it goes at the top, middle or bottom of the column? Many thanks :)
A column such as this can be run as a pot still by doing exactly what some mistakenly do, remove the dephlegmator, insulate the column, and run it just using the condenser. No (or very little) reflux action will take place.
Hey George! Love your videos! Looking to purchase my first still. Looking for a Reflux and the Glass Bubble has got my attention. Question… Would you recommend starting with the glass bubble? And is clean up taxing? Thank you!
So having a good pot still as a beginner would be a good starter and then with the addition of a few extra parts a man would have a reflux still........ Or get a reflux still and turn off the top condenser then you would have a pot still. TRICKY decision because as a beginner I do not know where I will end up as I LOVE Whisky but I also love a good vodka and all the other tipples in between. What I do know is that everything that I have made in the past has been based around a standard sized beer and cider fermentors with heat pads and warming chests. It is now that I would like to make the transition to a still. I believe that my dilemma is the first hurdle to get past. Any suggestions ????? For me the visual appearance of those bubble plates are just captivating.
George I have a Mile High Reflux still that I pack the column with copper packing and raschig rings and I always get 188 to 190. Can a bubble plate bring my proof up? Thanks and thank you for making these videos.
Yes, a bubble plate can put out 95-96% (190-192 proof), but more than that the column is doing multiple distillations this raises proof, but it also strips out flavors. All neutral spirits like Vodka are distilled in reflux type columns, and not pot stills.
You should look at cost vs. reward too. What do you gain going from 190 to 194? You're probably tempering your final product down to 90 - 100 proof anyway, right.
I have been using copper mesh and want to change to the bubble plates in a four inch column. Where or who is building them or where to buy them George ? Thank you for the info !
Hi George, I have a T500 can I add a bubble plate it? & if yes do I need a pre condensing chamber as I adj the water in the T500? cheers mate, love your work.
Hi george have you ever added salt to the wash just before you add it to the still the theory behind it is that salt raises the boiling point of water so instead of 100°c it would be say 110 and less water vapour coming out in the end product
Hey George, just a small correction to the plate theory: theoretical plates will actually always be less than the actual plates. This is because the efficiency of a real plate can never be 100% and therefore in theory separation occurs quicker.
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing You counting of vapor/fluid interactions as a theoretical plate is a mistake. Each interaction may fractionally increase your TPs, but by no means are they full theoretical plates. Each TP represents the equivalent of a complete distillation run.
Flood is bad. You don’t want to much differential pressure (dp) between the trays or you won’t have a good cut and you will get carry over. If you have too much drive (heat in the bottom) in the tower you will overcome the reflux and get carry over. Realistically you could have many draw trays in which you could run your still 24 hours a day just like a refinery. You would have slough line getting rid of the tails an overhead line getting rid of the foreshore/heads and a product draw tray that pulls the hearts into a hearts stripper tower that has a reboiler on it , along with reflux lines or circ reflux lines. You could also control the tower pressure to control the cuts. Maybe even a vacuum tower!
lol. Ok George here ya go you have the plate also called a tray the part that sticks up are bubble caps or risers the ones that stick down are your downcomer. hope that helps
Great knowledge !! Thank you. I have question about fruit distillation (apple). I would like to use bubble plates but what about final product in point of amount of it ?. Classical way double distillation (full copper) produce around 6-7 litres of pure spirit (56%) out of 160L of Ferment. With bubble column it will be significant decrease of amount of final product ?? Thans
I'm in the midst of making a 1g pressure cooker still. I decided to cut a hole for a stainless steel drink shaker thus having 1 bubble plate and creating more surface area and having a choice of adding mesh to reflux. Thoughts and ideas or opinions welcome. Still trying to come up with money for condenser....
You would place it at the very top of your column, right at the point of no return going into the final condenser. Another words; the same place as in pot still mowed. I also have a temperature probe just underneath my pre-condenser, then one at the very bottom of my column; just above the boiler lid. All this makes for easier control of the run. But it’s up to the individual as to how they want to set up their system. That’s the beauty of this hobby, you can keep it simple, or go as deep as you want. #Happy distilling!
@@blindguy63 Thank you for sharing this with me ✌🏼 if I may ask, what do you look for temperature wise at the bottom of your column vs. right below your pre condenser ?
It's way easier than it looks you just have to set the temp of the dephlegmator to flood the column to help strip more water as it passes through once you get it dailed in it's great.
George, nice video once again. Thank you! Could you do a video on upgrades or mods to a T500 still? Could you fit this bubbler to a T500 and if yes, would I see any improvement on %ABV or speed?
Your T-500 should be putting out at least 92 % ABV so you won't get any better changing it. If you want to experiment with various columns etc. you'll need to go to a standard still with sanitary connections.
Good knowledge but likely at the 301 level. I'm still a 101 noob with my Air Still running sugar wash. But loving the new hobby! Your vids and comment sections have been inspiring! Hope to catch your livestreams if you keep those going! 🤜🏻💥🤛🏻 ✌🏻💚🌱🔥🍻🍻🍻
Okay people we are just about to get George over a 100k so let's not stop until until we get him there share with your friends and family and even your wife and let's get him over the top
George in some of your other vids I see you using an A/C unit to cool your water down instead of a bucket of Ice, what Vid do you have that explains how to hook that up? Thank you and it this video you showed me what I need to order in order to make my pot still into reflux...I've already ordered the part thank you very much.
That column is not 16 theoretical plates. It takes 11+ plates to make a neutral. There is no way that column will make a neutral. The bubblers are in parallel with the plates and don't count as separate plates because they are all operating at the same temperature, fractionating the same alcohol component. That column is probably 6 theoretical plates, assuming the bubblers add 50% to the operation of the physical plates. If each bubbler added a plate, neutral columns would be 1 plate with about 20 bubblers on them. But in this example each of the bubblers is at the same temp and therefore fractionating the same alcohol component therefore counts as 1 plate. To be a true plate, it must operate at a different temperature than the plate above and below it.
You can buy it off of ali express or wish. They ship from china.. the one he has is about 200$. After shipping.. check out those sites . They also have good deals on the deflegmator and whole colums and parts to build your own .
Honestly ive run both and there's a slight difference in alcohol % running bubble plates to just a normal reflux collumn. It just looks cooler but in my mind it doesn't really matter
One question, if the reflux column is equiped with a precooler, wahet is the appropriate set point of the temperature we have to obtain in the precooler?
Curious about the hot and cold water as a good debate seems to be going on in forums that the cold should be in the top of the deflag and the hot comes out the bottom as its the last point of contact for the coldest part... ? thanks for taking the time for all of us!
Doesn't matter what I say or anyone else. In the bottom out the top or in the top out the bottom. There will always be someone who takes the opposite view and will testify to it. It is really not a big issue except for those who would argue which came first; the chicken or the egg. It is just an easy, arguable point.
If you put it in the top it will drain out before filling your dephlegmator and will not cool your product by filling from the bottom your unit will fill up before any water can drain and it will cool properly.
George, i owe you an appoligy and a thanks. always said a sugar wash was a waste n pointless.....im an idiot for saying that number 1. made and ran a basic sugar wash then used beardeds apple pie recipe and wow!!! i will never use grain liklker again and try to make it taste like apples or anything other than what it is. i have seen the light that George has shown upon sugar washes lol
Question....How are the 3 bubble caps on each plate not operating in parallel versus in series? I'd think that to count as "3 theoretical plates per plate", they would have to be in series?
So if I had a setup like yours with the same bubbler I was wondering if going with a 3” vs 4” would flow. I’m thinking if I had a taller column or wider with just four or 5 bubble plates on top does that just push more out quicker? Running out of a keg still too. Hypothetical question.
I'm confused I got the exact 4 floor bubble plate and using my T500 kit and i don't have the dephlegmator and I get the plates bubbling like crazy and I get 95%-96% proof so I don't get you when you said it won't get it to bubble without dephlegmator and you won't get high proof 🤔 without the bubble plate and using my T500 with the original condenser I would get 92% now I get 95%-96% proof using bubble plate and T500 condenser straight on top of it. How come it worked out for me????
George you do not have 16 plates. You have 4 plates. You do not count individual bubble plates/devices. All upcomers and downcomermers combined equal "the plate". Together they all equal a sort of distillation depending on reflux ran.
I know this vid is a couple years old but there is some misleading information in this vid. Theoretical plates and multiple distillations on individual plates... That's not how it works. Each plate acts as a distillation. That's it. The column forms a temperature gradient, whether it be a reflux column full of packing or a bubble plate. In a packed column the gradient is continuous. In a bubble plate the gradients are separated into zones by the plates. This allows the various volatiles that make up the vapour to concentrate on the different plates. Low boiling point vapours compositions concentrate on the highest plate, highest temp at the bottom plate. The riser caps on a plate allow vapour to pass up the column. That's their purpose. Their not acting as individual distillation points. The distillation comes from the accumulated liquid on the plate that all the caps on that plate have produced together. Increasing the number of riser caps on a plate increases the volume of vapour that can flow up the column. The downcomers are there to prevent the plates from flooding. The combination of providing vapour a path up and liquid a path down, allows the various volatile fraction to shuffle around and compress or concentrate at the different temperature zones. All of this happening requires balancing the volume of vapour being fed to the column and the amount of vapour being knocked down by the reflux condenser.
George you're wrong about number of theorycal plates. Each physical plate is less than a theorycal plate no matter how many bubbles you have in there. So you have less than four theorycal plates in this set-up.
While you are right in that he is wrong about the number of theoretical plates. A theoretical plate is equal to a physical plate. It's just that when you are talking about theoretical plates, you are discussing packing, which will be able to have more plates per column height than with physical plates. So within the height of a physical plate, you could have 2 or 3 theoretical plates with packing. He has 4 physical plates, so it would be equal to 4 theoretical plates. But it's still sorta improper to state there are any theoretical plates, because theoretical plates don't apply to physical plating.
@@adamw2785 According to Mccabe-thiele method when you have a separate distillation each time, It's called a theorycal plate. We don't have a full distillation in each physical plate. So the number of theorycal plates are always less than physical plates and it depends on the efficiency of the plates. The efficiency is defined by the percentage of a full distillation that happens in a plate.
@@alizx-pg4cl The McCabe-Thiele method doesn't define what a theoretical plate is, it simply uses theoretical plates to help model the distillation of binary mixtures. The definition also isn't where you have a separation distillation, but where you have a point of VLE between the phases. A column with 0 packing, and 0 physical plates, will still have some theoretical plate number, but you'll never hear a hobbyist talk about it as if it has any plates, they will simply say "passive reflux is happening". You are right that in practical terms, there will never be 100% efficiency in generating that equilbrium, but when we discuss it on a hobbyist scale, we speak in ideals as if it were 100% efficient, for us, Nt = Na * 100%, mostly because no one is building a still where that can be measured with any sort of ease.
@@alizx-pg4cl For the actual plate itself yes. System wide, or even on a plate section level, not really. The MCT method, and Murphree Plate Efficiency are great learning tools, but they are typically too simple to explain what really happens inside a still. It's like trying to use Raoult's law to explain what is happening. You can use it to get a general idea, but it isn't the right tool for the job. Gotta remember that it isn't just the plate in the column that is refluxing and causing separation. While the plate itself might not be 100% efficient, the plate along with the column walls of that plate section (between the surface of that plate and the bottom of the next plate above it) might add up to 100% equilbrium efficiency or more. By that I mean, if the mole fraction of the vapour above the plate is higher than the calculated VLE mole fraction the liquid on the plate allows for, which would mean the efficiency of that plate section is higher than the efficiency of the plate itself, which does happen. And no one is going to talk about the plate as just a plate and not a plate inside a column, from a hobbyist standpoint that is.
Bubble plate vs sieve does not matter in this operation. Nor would it matter if the column was reasonably packed. The factors to consider would be how many stages or theoretical plates (if packed) would achieve the desired purity. Caps or not it does not matter for a system of this size or any system smaller than industrial scale
Yes, there is a graph you refer to. I believe it is called a phase diagram of distillation. Not easy to follow or read but once you fully understand it you can work out proof during the run. I think I'll do a video on it soon.
I need help: I have a 1.5 inch (vm) column and I distill 10 liters up to a maximum of 30 liters. Could I increase the diameter of the column considering the few liters? I hope for some answers !!
George has explained this in other videos. Increasing diameter increases the volume of your column. It won't give you higher proof, but it will distill faster. Going to 2" would give you slightly less than double the volume of 1.5". i.e. 10" column x 3.12 x .75 (squared), or 17.55" vs. 31.2" for a 2" column. I don't recall if that's a linear increase in speed of distilling.
hey George! check out the latest video on how to drink's channel, he started to dip his toes into distillation, and I'm sure your could really help him out with all your experience!
Difficult concepts explained simply. That's the mark of a good teacher.
George the 551 is the best copper cleaner I have ever seen thanks man happy distilling
George, the vapor flow going up travels through “risers”. At least that’s what there called in chemical plants and refineries. The trays are there to promote liquid vapor contact to effect the temperature change to send lighter molecules up and allow heavier ones down.
"Risers" it is my friend! That's what I'll call them from now on.
Thank you George! THE best “Distilling Science Story Teller”
I love mine and it help my proof and I love my PID you sent me I would recommend everyone get one from George its so easy to maintain my temp.Thanks again George Happy Distilling.
You and me both I love my George built pid control helped me take it to the next level
I use a 1/4" line connected to a tiny brass needle valve to control the water to my dephlegmator and that works flawlessly. That will give you precision control over the water flow. I run my dephlegmator and my shotgun condenser independently. In other words, I don't connect their water lines together at all. Very convenient!
I run my setup the same way saves a bunch on ice since the hot water from the dephlegmator is used to melt my sugar for the next batch and not the ice and a needle value is the only way to get the exact water flow
Excellent video George you got me very interested in building a deflamrater and a multi stage bubble plate going to start designing the whole still with all they bells and whistles
Happy Distilling
Just love watching your videos, interesting subjects, full of detail and fun. Thank you for the time you put into these.
Thank you George, you answered my question about if the plate will work without a reflux condenser.
Hey George! I have not commented lately, but this one was super interesting. Hats off to you for teaching me something new just when I start thinking I've seen it all. Thanks
Thanks George. Got a 6 plate a few weeks ago. 94% neutral off 1st run! And fast. Love it.
What model you use? Thnx :)
Thanks for answering the question I hadn’t asked yet. Thanks for the video sir.
Many small distilleries use bubble plates, and they are very common in the whiskey and bourbon world with smaller batch style stills. Most bourbon/whiskey makers that use these batch stills use 4 or less plates when distilling bourbon/whiskey mashes. If your getting too high of a proof or not enough flavor, just disable a plate. Additionally, bubble plates require less power to create the velocity needed to move the ethanol up the column compared to perforated plates because of the liquid bed on the trays. The required velocity needed to move the ethanol up a column is a big deal when you begin to move past the 4" wide columns, not so much on smaller columns.
Thank you for stressing the use of a Dephlegmator George!
I am wondering what you tend to distill with your glass setup in the background. I use mine for acid distillations.
George it's been a few months since watching your channel.
This has been a video I have been waiting to see. Perfect demonstration of the bubble plates and use of the Dephlegmator and the interaction.
Look forward in trying my small setup to make some gin to see how it comes out. As your buddy says, "Chasing the Craft and for you George, keep up the informative videos and "Happy Distilling"
I think ive watched other videos on this from you before as well . I love watching your videos George , nobody does distilling videos better than you. ! That's my dream set-up , I'm saving for it right now actually. I can't wait to try one out . I appreciate you sharing all your valuable knowledge with us . Your the best George , Take care sir.
I have to say your content is phenomenal and ive learned so much over the past year watching it. Everything you say is well explained and makes sense.
Great one mate you just got me going with another one, good on you for sharing your awesome videos. Have a good one.
Just love your work giving me new ideas. Cheers George
Wonderful explanation... love the detail in the column. Someday this will all come to fruition
Thanks for all the great videos
George have you ever checked out an armagnac still? They use bubble plates but instead of reflux chamber they introduce preheated wash to the top of their column. It then goes threw the plates. Suppose to capture a lot of the lost esters. Used for a type of brandy but wondered if it could be used for other types of washes?
CONGRATULATIONS George you made it 100k subscribers can't think of anyone who deserves it more thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us in a way we can all understand I know most of us really appreciate your hard work.
Now we have to get Bearded and Jesse up there with you because you all bring a different perspective on our thing.
Great explanation as always George. I had been looking at these and wondering, WHY? I don't do neutral runs, I'm looking for FLAVOR 😉 Thanks and have a great Holiday Weekend 🥃 #HAPPYDISTILLING !!
wow thank you! I was reading some whisky distillation pdf but it is really difficult to visual the descriptions in writings. Thanks for the video!
George, they have these bubble plates in stainless steel. They self clean as the alcohol vapor passes through the column. No need to disassemble which is a pain. Check Aliexpress.
I'm super happy to see this video because I don't truly understand this process.
The only time I would try to use this is out of curiosity. And fun. My best whiskey just needs time. Keep on Distilling.
Fantastic attitude and wonderful energy; I can tell you're passionate about this and you want other people to understand it too! You have my subscription, and I'm looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Better yeilds are to be had by increasing reflux from the reflux drum "dephlegnator" and keeping a level on all of the trays. Suppressing water vapors to fall down the down-comer, which should have a steady flow keeping the tray below it supplied with a level without flooding the tray or covering the cap completely. This is called loading the colomn. Thats how bubble caps and sieve trays are designed to work properly. To do this you need to set your tray temperature a few degrees above the OH temp with the bottoms temp in cascade. This is a column temperature profile. The top tray temp is the master and the bottoms temp the slave. This is how we distill hydrocarbons in the refinery. Of course you have to control the level in the reflux drum as well , which is in cascade to the feed flow to the boiler. This is contolled by increasing or decreasing the product out to the final holding tank or "jug" or whatever. However it may be difficult unless you have a continuous flow of cude material "unrefined heavy ends" or bottoms product to keep a level in the base or boiler. But then again its just a hobby and thats probably too elaborate for most hobby distillers. In my opion, using bubble caps is such a process is ludicrous if you aren't using the control systems to have a proper column profile. Meaning temperature level and flow controlers. While we are at it we mights as well throw on some vacuum compressors and distill at 92 deg F. Im for it. Someone setup a Delta V HMI and lets make some moonshine. 😂😂
As usual, great vid George.
I see you had the bubble tube at the top, but does it matter if it goes at the top, middle or bottom of the column? Many thanks :)
A column such as this can be run as a pot still by doing exactly what some mistakenly do, remove the dephlegmator, insulate the column, and run it just using the condenser. No (or very little) reflux action will take place.
Hey George!
Love your videos!
Looking to purchase my first still.
Looking for a Reflux and the Glass Bubble has got my attention.
Question…
Would you recommend starting with the glass bubble?
And is clean up taxing?
Thank you!
So having a good pot still as a beginner would be a good starter and then with the addition of a few extra parts a man would have a reflux still........ Or get a reflux still and turn off the top condenser then you would have a pot still. TRICKY decision because as a beginner I do not know where I will end up as I LOVE Whisky but I also love a good vodka and all the other tipples in between. What I do know is that everything that I have made in the past has been based around a standard sized beer and cider fermentors with heat pads and warming chests. It is now that I would like to make the transition to a still. I believe that my dilemma is the first hurdle to get past. Any suggestions ????? For me the visual appearance of those bubble plates are just captivating.
“Of course, you’ve only got a 50/50 chance of getting this WRONG....” 🤣🤣 you’re the best! Thank you for your videos! I am SO enjoying distilling 🙏☺️
So cool George!
George I have a Mile High Reflux still that I pack the column with copper packing and raschig rings and I always get 188 to 190. Can a bubble plate bring my proof up? Thanks and thank you for making these videos.
Yes, a bubble plate can put out 95-96% (190-192 proof), but more than that the column is doing multiple distillations this raises proof, but it also strips out flavors. All neutral spirits like Vodka are distilled in reflux type columns, and not pot stills.
You should look at cost vs. reward too. What do you gain going from 190 to 194? You're probably tempering your final product down to 90 - 100 proof anyway, right.
Great video fully depressed all my curiosity buttons. 😁👍
I have been using copper mesh and want to change to the bubble plates in a four inch column. Where or who is building them or where to buy them George ? Thank you for the info !
Hi George, I have a T500 can I add a bubble plate it? & if yes do I need a pre condensing chamber as I adj the water in the T500? cheers mate, love your work.
Hi george have you ever added salt to the wash just before you add it to the still the theory behind it is that salt raises the boiling point of water so instead of 100°c it would be say 110 and less water vapour coming out in the end product
please provide materials list if DIY on the assembly, or please say where you got this. i want to build this! thank you for your videos.
Hey George, just a small correction to the plate theory: theoretical plates will actually always be less than the actual plates. This is because the efficiency of a real plate can never be 100% and therefore in theory separation occurs quicker.
Thanks
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing You counting of vapor/fluid interactions as a theoretical plate is a mistake. Each interaction may fractionally increase your TPs, but by no means are they full theoretical plates. Each TP represents the equivalent of a complete distillation run.
Flood is bad. You don’t want to much differential pressure (dp) between the trays or you won’t have a good cut and you will get carry over. If you have too much drive (heat in the bottom) in the tower you will overcome the reflux and get carry over. Realistically you could have many draw trays in which you could run your still 24 hours a day just like a refinery. You would have slough line getting rid of the tails an overhead line getting rid of the foreshore/heads and a product draw tray that pulls the hearts into a hearts stripper tower that has a reboiler on it , along with reflux lines or circ reflux lines. You could also control the tower pressure to control the cuts. Maybe even a vacuum tower!
Do you prefer a Glass, Copper or Stainless column
lol. Ok George here ya go you have the plate also called a tray the part that sticks up are bubble caps or risers the ones that stick down are your downcomer. hope that helps
Does a bubble plate not change your system into a closed system? It need pressure to load the plates right? So that would seem closed?
Great knowledge !! Thank you. I have question about fruit distillation (apple). I would like to use bubble plates but what about final product in point of amount of it ?. Classical way double distillation (full copper) produce around 6-7 litres of pure spirit (56%) out of 160L of Ferment. With bubble column it will be significant decrease of amount of final product ?? Thans
I'm in the midst of making a 1g pressure cooker still.
I decided to cut a hole for a stainless steel drink shaker thus having 1 bubble plate and creating more surface area and having a choice of adding mesh to reflux.
Thoughts and ideas or opinions welcome.
Still trying to come up with money for condenser....
Hi George, Would the t500 column act as a deflegmater? Would a bubble set up add anything to the t500?
Are these glass columns safe? I've been debating between a flute and glass column. The big plastic pucks give me pause.
do you have any suggestions for affordable stilling equipment like bubble columns?
I have a 2" column that I pack with copper. Would I benefit in any way from replacing the packing with a bubble plate?
Hey George, I was wondering, where do you position the temp. probe of your PID when you operate a column? Is it above the dephlegmator?
You would place it at the very top of your column, right at the point of no return going into the final condenser. Another words; the same place as in pot still mowed. I also have a temperature probe just underneath my pre-condenser, then one at the very bottom of my column; just above the boiler lid. All this makes for easier control of the run. But it’s up to the individual as to how they want to set up their system. That’s the beauty of this hobby, you can keep it simple, or go as deep as you want. #Happy distilling!
@@blindguy63 Thank you for sharing this with me ✌🏼 if I may ask, what do you look for temperature wise at the bottom of your column vs. right below your pre condenser ?
Great video George! I've got a quick question for you. Is a deflagmator a synonym for a pre-condenser?
Yes, it is
Thanks for sharing this, but too complicated for me. Hahaha.
Thanks again for the video.
It's way easier than it looks you just have to set the temp of the dephlegmator to flood the column to help strip more water as it passes through once you get it dailed in it's great.
George, nice video once again. Thank you! Could you do a video on upgrades or mods to a T500 still? Could you fit this bubbler to a T500 and if yes, would I see any improvement on %ABV or speed?
Your T-500 should be putting out at least 92 % ABV so you won't get any better changing it. If you want to experiment with various columns etc. you'll need to go to a standard still with sanitary connections.
Thank you for the great video
Good knowledge but likely at the 301 level. I'm still a 101 noob with my Air Still running sugar wash. But loving the new hobby! Your vids and comment sections have been inspiring! Hope to catch your livestreams if you keep those going!
🤜🏻💥🤛🏻 ✌🏻💚🌱🔥🍻🍻🍻
Okay people we are just about to get George over a 100k so let's not stop until until we get him there share with your friends and family and even your wife and let's get him over the top
George in some of your other vids I see you using an A/C unit to cool your water down instead of a bucket of Ice, what Vid do you have that explains how to hook that up? Thank you and it this video you showed me what I need to order in order to make my pot still into reflux...I've already ordered the part thank you very much.
th-cam.com/video/dNCqRKWcQao/w-d-xo.html
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing Thank you George, very interesting I may have to try that one...
That column is not 16 theoretical plates. It takes 11+ plates to make a neutral. There is no way that column will make a neutral. The bubblers are in parallel with the plates and don't count as separate plates because they are all operating at the same temperature, fractionating the same alcohol component. That column is probably 6 theoretical plates, assuming the bubblers add 50% to the operation of the physical plates.
If each bubbler added a plate, neutral columns would be 1 plate with about 20 bubblers on them. But in this example each of the bubblers is at the same temp and therefore fractionating the same alcohol component therefore counts as 1 plate.
To be a true plate, it must operate at a different temperature than the plate above and below it.
I only have a 2" column with 4 site glasses filled with marbles to try to mimic the bubble plate action...I have achieved 93-95% ABV with this setup
Pretty cool. Did you make this George?
You can buy it off of ali express or wish. They ship from china.. the one he has is about 200$. After shipping.. check out those sites . They also have good deals on the deflegmator and whole colums and parts to build your own .
WHy use bubble plates over packing? Do you get any better throughput or efficiency? It certainly has the cool factor going for it.
Honestly ive run both and there's a slight difference in alcohol % running bubble plates to just a normal reflux collumn. It just looks cooler but in my mind it doesn't really matter
One question, if the reflux column is equiped with a precooler, wahet is the appropriate set point of the temperature we have to obtain in the precooler?
Curious about the hot and cold water as a good debate seems to be going on in forums that the cold should be in the top of the deflag and the hot comes out the bottom as its the last point of contact for the coldest part... ? thanks for taking the time for all of us!
Doesn't matter what I say or anyone else. In the bottom out the top or in the top out the bottom. There will always be someone who takes the opposite view and will testify to it.
It is really not a big issue except for those who would argue which came first; the chicken or the egg. It is just an easy, arguable point.
If you put it in the top it will drain out before filling your dephlegmator and will not cool your product by filling from the bottom your unit will fill up before any water can drain and it will cool properly.
@@chucknaturale307 and logic prevails!! thanks for that!
Ty for your videos
George, i owe you an appoligy and a thanks. always said a sugar wash was a waste n pointless.....im an idiot for saying that number 1. made and ran a basic sugar wash then used beardeds apple pie recipe and wow!!! i will never use grain liklker again and try to make it taste like apples or anything other than what it is. i have seen the light that George has shown upon sugar washes lol
Question....How are the 3 bubble caps on each plate not operating in parallel versus in series? I'd think that to count as "3 theoretical plates per plate", they would have to be in series?
Good Afternoon, should the downcomers be offest from each other or aligned one on top of another? Thanks!
What if I have only 1 copper tube valve on my bubble plates. Does it works on the same way? I have a 2 inches glass colum. 😒
So if I had a setup like yours with the same bubbler I was wondering if going with a 3” vs 4” would flow. I’m thinking if I had a taller column or wider with just four or 5 bubble plates on top does that just push more out quicker? Running out of a keg still too. Hypothetical question.
The size of the column from 3 to 4 inches will increase the flow rate.
What do you use the oscilloscope for ?
I'm confused I got the exact 4 floor bubble plate and using my T500 kit and i don't have the dephlegmator and I get the plates bubbling like crazy and I get 95%-96% proof so I don't get you when you said it won't get it to bubble without dephlegmator and you won't get high proof 🤔 without the bubble plate and using my T500 with the original condenser I would get 92% now I get 95%-96% proof using bubble plate and T500 condenser straight on top of it. How come it worked out for me????
If you over cool the dephlegmator, will the bubble plates back up, causing the spirit vapor not make it to the condenser?
Yes
like it. thumbs up
Congratulations on 100k!! :)
Thank you!
Now we need to wait for youtube to recognize our community achievement before we can advertise our success.
George
I have heard starsan works well on getting copper looking good but I haven't tried it so I can't confirm.
George you do not have 16 plates. You have 4 plates. You do not count individual bubble plates/devices. All upcomers and downcomermers combined equal "the plate". Together they all equal a sort of distillation depending on reflux ran.
I know this vid is a couple years old but there is some misleading information in this vid.
Theoretical plates and multiple distillations on individual plates... That's not how it works. Each plate acts as a distillation. That's it.
The column forms a temperature gradient, whether it be a reflux column full of packing or a bubble plate. In a packed column the gradient is continuous. In a bubble plate the gradients are separated into zones by the plates. This allows the various volatiles that make up the vapour to concentrate on the different plates. Low boiling point vapours compositions concentrate on the highest plate, highest temp at the bottom plate.
The riser caps on a plate allow vapour to pass up the column. That's their purpose. Their not acting as individual distillation points. The distillation comes from the accumulated liquid on the plate that all the caps on that plate have produced together. Increasing the number of riser caps on a plate increases the volume of vapour that can flow up the column.
The downcomers are there to prevent the plates from flooding. The combination of providing vapour a path up and liquid a path down, allows the various volatile fraction to shuffle around and compress or concentrate at the different temperature zones.
All of this happening requires balancing the volume of vapour being fed to the column and the amount of vapour being knocked down by the reflux condenser.
So why copper and not stainless steel?
Man I miss this place and George.
Cool bong
The other great video George⚗🥃
You are my hero
Do I need a deflegmater to run a bubble plate if I have a reflux still?
George you're wrong about number of theorycal plates. Each physical plate is less than a theorycal plate no matter how many bubbles you have in there. So you have less than four theorycal plates in this set-up.
While you are right in that he is wrong about the number of theoretical plates. A theoretical plate is equal to a physical plate. It's just that when you are talking about theoretical plates, you are discussing packing, which will be able to have more plates per column height than with physical plates. So within the height of a physical plate, you could have 2 or 3 theoretical plates with packing.
He has 4 physical plates, so it would be equal to 4 theoretical plates. But it's still sorta improper to state there are any theoretical plates, because theoretical plates don't apply to physical plating.
@@adamw2785 According to Mccabe-thiele method when you have a separate distillation each time, It's called a theorycal plate. We don't have a full distillation in each physical plate. So the number of theorycal plates are always less than physical plates and it depends on the efficiency of the plates. The efficiency is defined by the percentage of a full distillation that happens in a plate.
@@alizx-pg4cl The McCabe-Thiele method doesn't define what a theoretical plate is, it simply uses theoretical plates to help model the distillation of binary mixtures. The definition also isn't where you have a separation distillation, but where you have a point of VLE between the phases. A column with 0 packing, and 0 physical plates, will still have some theoretical plate number, but you'll never hear a hobbyist talk about it as if it has any plates, they will simply say "passive reflux is happening". You are right that in practical terms, there will never be 100% efficiency in generating that equilbrium, but when we discuss it on a hobbyist scale, we speak in ideals as if it were 100% efficient, for us, Nt = Na * 100%, mostly because no one is building a still where that can be measured with any sort of ease.
@@adamw2785 Then I guess we agree that four physical plates is equal to slightly less than four theorycal plates, right?
@@alizx-pg4cl For the actual plate itself yes. System wide, or even on a plate section level, not really.
The MCT method, and Murphree Plate Efficiency are great learning tools, but they are typically too simple to explain what really happens inside a still. It's like trying to use Raoult's law to explain what is happening. You can use it to get a general idea, but it isn't the right tool for the job.
Gotta remember that it isn't just the plate in the column that is refluxing and causing separation.
While the plate itself might not be 100% efficient, the plate along with the column walls of that plate section (between the surface of that plate and the bottom of the next plate above it) might add up to 100% equilbrium efficiency or more.
By that I mean, if the mole fraction of the vapour above the plate is higher than the calculated VLE mole fraction the liquid on the plate allows for, which would mean the efficiency of that plate section is higher than the efficiency of the plate itself, which does happen. And no one is going to talk about the plate as just a plate and not a plate inside a column, from a hobbyist standpoint that is.
Thanks George!
Bubble plate vs sieve does not matter in this operation. Nor would it matter if the column was reasonably packed. The factors to consider would be how many stages or theoretical plates (if packed) would achieve the desired purity. Caps or not it does not matter for a system of this size or any system smaller than industrial scale
The best part is I’m watching you and distilling.
Could you use bubble plates with the t500?
What is the minimum distance in between bubble plates?
Is there a ratio or formula to get a rough idea of how much of an increase in proof to expect from adding multiple plates?
Yes, there is a graph you refer to. I believe it is called a phase diagram of distillation. Not easy to follow or read but once you fully understand it you can work out proof during the run. I think I'll do a video on it soon.
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing That would be fantastic! Thank you
George will that go on a 2" colome and it came from arlie Express right.?
3 inch
Can it be used to distill tails?
I need help: I have a 1.5 inch (vm) column and I distill 10 liters up to a maximum of 30 liters. Could I increase the diameter of the column considering the few liters? I hope for some answers !!
George has explained this in other videos. Increasing diameter increases the volume of your column. It won't give you higher proof, but it will distill faster. Going to 2" would give you slightly less than double the volume of 1.5". i.e. 10" column x 3.12 x .75 (squared), or 17.55" vs. 31.2" for a 2" column. I don't recall if that's a linear increase in speed of distilling.
@@kaiser_sose Thank you very much. I already knew this information but the question was whether a large column can handle a small kettle.
hey George! check out the latest video on how to drink's channel, he started to dip his toes into distillation, and I'm sure your could really help him out with all your experience!
MISSED YOU FRIEND!
Is it ok to be a unhappy distiller?
Totally up to you.