IMPORTANT! Please Read: 1. Sorry about the audio quality drop at 4:47. 2. WARNING: You will not be able to look at the Lagom P64 the same ever again if you watch this video. 3. DO NOT put KY-Jelly in your grinder.
Hi Aramse, for the declumper hack on the df83, did you simply remove one of the declumper layers and only go with the 1? Also, have you noticed any flavor changes as a result to espresso? Sounds like you like it for filter due to less fines. I imagine it to be the same for espresso? Just got the df83 v2 and curious of doing the same hack to lessen fines but don't want to diminish flavor of espresso. Thanks!
As well as the Timeore 078S another competitor for the DF83 would be the Niche Duo. I have the Sculptor 078S and a Kopi Deva 64mm grinder yhe Sculptor is so good, the workflow is amazing, I think the Deva makes slightly better espresso, but the workflow is not great, but if you can spemd the time dialing in it gives amazing results, looks great and is built like a tank
Would love a more complete head to head vs. the 078S. But I'm not sure why I want that, because I've already got a 078S on the way...I suppose just to attempt to see how my purchase lines up against the competition.
Same. But from my own personal experience, the 078s wins by a large margin. I briefly owned a DF83v2 and the workflow, cleanliness, and volume all pale in comparison to my 078s.
And to clarify, I mean a taste showdown, or include the 078s burrs in your burr video you're working on. I feel like there is enough out there about the workflow of all these grinders. :)
@@WillardTurnerYeah, saw it when it came out and his reddit post too about comparisons. It felt like he was so fed up with the Sculptor insanity at that point. Honestly, just waiting for mine and am bored tbh. Don't really need more videos about the 078s.
I just got df 64 gen 2 with dlc burr grinder 2 days ago because of your review Is there something wrong in my df 64? I'm pulling my ideal shot 1:2-2.5 depends on beans but the clarity of taste notes is very minimal compared to my kingrinder k6? do I need to do something on df 64 gen 2 grinder to make my espresso better? season or alignment?
I don't understand all the hate for the Gen 1 DF64! I've had mine for nearly 3 years (post Hoffman review, I thing mine is the 3rd iteration) and it's really wonderful. Yes it produces a lot of chaff but the workflow is perfect, I have never had the clogging declumper or popcorning issues people talk about a lot, and I don't understand the hate of the original DF64 central placement of the button. If the button was on the side I feel like I would have trouble reaching it since my grinder is right next to my espresso machine
I do have both, DF64 Gen2 and DF83 v2 and can just confirm what you have mentioned. For me, they are great bangs for the buck. Other grinders that can beat them come with a heavier price tag. But your analysis of their quirks is spot on! Love your channel, great work!
@@ofreed3973 I wish he would do a video of DF64 SSP HU or MP vs the DF83v stock burrs. these 2 are similar price, but which would be the better espresso grinder.
Being a previous DF83 owner who also spent some time with the 64mm DLC burrs, I gotta say your taste description is SPOT ON. Actually, the whole review is extremely accurate. I'm a big fan of your work and looking forward to your future content. Keep it up!
Agree. Curious to see Hypernova burr, or even stock in Varia vs DF64 w/stock burr. Actually even a test of Lagom Mini, Varia VS3, DF64 in comparison light and medium roast beans. If included the Starseeker Edge would be great.
Got my DF64 Gen 2 a week ago, and while its early Im loving it! The catch cup is also matching black and the catch cup holder is now black metal with no rattle which is nice, and the declumper is single layered. Almost like they watched this video for their latest version haha!
Cleaning plasma generator seem like a rather noticeable design flaw, the flap mod is also still a work in progress… Hopefully the DF83v solves most of this. However what I seen on SSP so far the difference between 83 vs 64 is very very mute. Meaning currently I see no real gain (in the cup) to go with 83. Personally I dream of an affordable 80mm that can take Core and ultra burr because these are vastly better burrs then those currently found on 64mm and 83mm.
Very pleased but be careful when you season the grinder with coffee. You need to use the bellows for each portion of coffee used or the grinder or shute will clog up.
@@justinlouismusic can you not take the chute out and put a tupperware under it? You can also use some softer rice types. Also helps when cleaning the grinder.
Thank you for the declumper tip. I recently bought a DF64 and was surprised by the amount of fines produced. Made filter coffee kind of unpleasant, I'm gonna try this hack
Thanks for the video! Been looking at the DF64 Gen 2 for a while now, glad to see another review on it. Would you recommend either if I do mostly pourovers with occasional espresso drinks?
The original DF64s weren't that bad I've had a bunch. Due to quality control though some seemed better than others. Retention and overall design on the df83 of 64 gen2 which is similar is an improvement though. Sounds like you just don't like portafilter forks. Like the p64 the DF64 portafilter forks work fine but some portafilters may fit better than others. Adding or removing the silicon socks can help with that. Also the catch cup and funnel are a much appreciated upgrade for most people lol. You want something that just works nicely you need the p64. My one main complaint on my early build df83 funnel is that it fits loosely and rattles a bigger thicker gasket would fix that! Not sure what would make you say the build or feel is nicer on the ode than it is on the DF grinders. Both feel fine to me but DF is definitely heavier and heavier duty feeling as a result.
You are correct. I know people who were happy with the OG. I just don’t have any regrets not trying to it. Haha. Also my issue is not with the forks per se. It’s more of a design and visual balance thing for me. My designer brian just flags it as disproportionate and tacked on. Can’t help it. For comparison, the fork on the EG 1 or any of the Kafatek grinders are substantial and actually look like a part of the overall aesthetic. I hope I’m explaining it properly. :)
I thought the same thing initially that the df83 has a more traditional conical burr like taste profile. Befofe being seasoned or modding the declumper. I actually compared it with a Niche Zero and my friends Sette when i first got the df83. Seemed like DF83 had similar but slightly less body a little more clarity than both of those but very similar profile one thing we noticed was DF83 was smoother with less bitterness. However i think if we'd compare again now it would be more night and day difference with df83 being lower body and higher clarity and likely a little more acidity. I wonder how the df83 would be with Mazzer burrs if that would put it back towards being more traditional.
Do you prefer 83 SSP MP to 78 turbo? Got myself sculptor 78 and plan on getting df64v with ssp mp. It is as close as you can get to p64 without breaking the bank.
Hi, I'd love to see a more detailed video comparing these two to the Timemore 078s... I am heading for an upgrade and have my eye on both of these brands... taste with stock burrs, as I am unlikely to want to change burrs every time I change coffee percolation type! Thanks!
So glad that I stumble upon your channel. I am currently looking to get my first all-purpose grinder (filter and espresso), narrowed down to DF64 v2, Sculptor 064s, or Varia VS3 gen2 as all of these fall into similar price point. Which one would you pick? Anyway, thanks and cant wait to see more reviews. Cheers!!
Nice review Aramse! I would be interested in a grinder showdown or maybe even just a burr showdown. Is the Sculptor 076 still the filter king in your book or have you found anything better/on the horizon?
At that price point yes. It’s still amazing and I use it is almost everyday. I do think the 83 MP edges it out but that’s a $1000 price tag at this point. I’m still testing though and they haven’t been fully seasoned just yet.
Let me ask you something. With the same beans grinding in 83 vs 64 what are your dial in settings? Do both grinders grind at the same number? Lets say 15 or is there a difference?
Ooh okay I get it now, you're just trying to hurt us like you were when someone on Reddit said the 078 looks like a sewing machine and that you couldn't unsee it. That's a bit sadistic 😂
would you pick the DF83 over the sculptor 078s? I have the 78s and then of 4 kilos I feel so much unconsistency in the grinding, how many kilos of coffe I need to waste to sazonate it....does It will change? I am a bit worried
I'm mainly a filter/pourover coffee drinker. I was wondering if the df64 gen 2 could take fellow ode gen 2 burrs. I really like the body to clarity ratio they give.
i have the d64 v2 in white ... im not a fan of the black .... also got mine with the DLC burrs ... this grinder is pretty amazing ( compared to my breville )
Would a Niche-like cover over the top of these drastically reduce their obnoxious volume?...maybe a simple plastic food carton to experiment. A bandaid...yes. But it'd be nice to know if a simple flip cover would resolve the noise problem. I look forward to big DF comparison video...especially the DF64V's volume vs the others. Cheers
Couldn’t live with the df83 wildly inconsistent one morning I dial it in two shots later espresso is gushing the next day it chokes the machine without touching the grinder. I tried everything except for the declumper. I’m going for the sculpter 64s hopefully that works better.
Hi Aramse, thank you for your great video(s)! Could you use rpm like 800 too for the filter ssp df64 gen2 burr comparison? Would be very interesting but honestly, also a lot of extra work :-(
Not sure I follow your question. The Gen 2 is not variable RPM. Only the V models are. Or are you asking if we can compare the SSP to the Gen 2 burrs at 800 rpm on another grinder?
@@aramse hi, sorry for the unclear question, nonetheless you got it right. If you "only" test on a DF64 - of course you will compare at one RPM. But I read, that for instance SSPcast are great for filter at ~800RPM and also very good for espresso at ~1400RPM. So, it would be interesting to have the filter test for SSBcast and the DF64gen2 burrs at lower RPM too...But no matter what you do, I am looking forward to it & thx in advance!
With the stock burrs the 83 is just OK at filter. The 078 is incredible. With the 83mm SSP MP it gets very close with the DF83 probably edging out the 078 a bit. And the SSPs aren't fully seasoned yet.
Just picked up the DF64 GEN2 with DLC burrs too replace my not so old baratza ESP because i switch between two coffees quite allot and im hopping the less retention will give me better consistency. I noticed that the baratza encore esp retains alllotttt of crap and wasnt too happpy with all the plastic bits inside. Hope i made the right decision fingers crossed….
Would love a comparison for categories "filter only" , "espresso only", "mixed" and also for burrs. Does it really matter in which machine you put the ssp burrs? Should taste the same everwhere, right ?
It would be nice if it were that simple but nothing with coffee seems to be. Haha. So these are just a few of the variables that affect the grounds - the burr chamber, the feeding system (direct or auger fed or auger fed with pre breaker), the burr orientation and rpm. So unfortunately moving burrs from one grinder to another will not give you identical performance. As for the comparison video it’s in the works and it’ll cover filter and espresso. It’s so much work but we’ll hopefully have that ready soon.
For the price I'd say these are definitely now well within the tolerable level of fiddling required. But I get that the trauma from using the OG could very well put one off DF grinders for life. Luckily there's no dearth of alternatives. :)
So i was always told bigger burrs better taste. Dont like it here. I got a 64mm flat burr grinder and want to go to 80+ mm But my grinder works fine and makes good coffee so not sure if its worth it.
You're definitely hitting diminishing returns quite hard at this point. If you're happy with your coffee then just keep your current grinder. If you're curious and have the spare cash then go for it. It's fun.
I just returned my Fellows Ode gen 2 because the ionization stopped working after around 2 months. I ordered the DF64 gen 2, so hopefully it works better.
Which is better for espresso? DF83 or 078s (assuming both are using stock burrs and seasoned)? What about for filter coffee? Can either DF83 or 078s stock burrs come somewhat close to a 078, or is the 078 on a completely different level for filter coffee? Or better yet, have you ever tried making espresso with a 078? I remember Lance Hedrick making espresso with a filter coffee focused hand grinder (ZP6) and being surprised at how good it was. I'd really like to get a 078 but I also want espresso from time to time.
Ok I'll reply in order. 1) The 83 stock burrs are excellent for traditional style espresso that are low more acidity and clarity but really high on sweetness and texture. The 078S burrs are better for more modern style espresso which better structured acidity and clarity and these burrs are much better for filter than the stock 83. 2) No comparison, the 078 is a filter beast. But comparing the 078S and stock 83 the former comes out ahead with better clarity and overall balance in the cup. 3)The 078 will not do espresso at 9bars. You maybe able to do it with a very dark roast but I doubt you'd want to drink it. You'll also have to grind uncomfortably fine (burr chirp) to build that kind of pressure. It is however capable of turbo shots and does pretty well at that.
@@aramse Thanks a bunch. You've convinced me to get the 078. 078 seems to be a one of kind filter grind for its price range and I actually prefer turbo shots over modern style espresso. Might also get a DF83 or other traditional espresso focused grinder in the future just for thick high body espresso. Modern style espresso never made sense to me since it doesn't have the clarity and acid balance of pour overs, body + mouthfeel of traditional style, or sweetness and consistency of turbos. Its like a middle ground that doesn't excel at any one thing. 078s seems like a middleman between 078(clarity-acidity) and DF83(body).
does it taste really bad if i dont remove the declumper for filter grind settings? i dont want to mess my grinder and the seller says it will void my warranty , if i mod it thank you for your reply currently i am mostly filter with occasional manual espresso drinker
Thanks for showing the DF83 declumper mod. Unfortunately, I'm still getting a ton of retention even after doing that and also using RDT. I wonder if it's just a fact of life with this grinder and super dry Denver winters?
Ah it could be. So it looks like the retention at the top seems to be non exchange so once it’s filled up it just stays put. The only issue is that you need to brush it to clean out the declumper every once in a while which mean that you’ll get retention again until that fills up. Very annoying. The chute definitely needs work.
@@aramse I definitely do feel like the dryness and resulting mega static I notice around my house is a contributing factor to coffee wanting to stick to that plastic chute so fiercely. My poor cat gets zapped every time I pet her lately. Guess I'll just keep pipe cleaners and a small vacuum in my workflow....
@@aramse Update: Turns out I am just dumb...my scale is flaking out and weighing wildly inconsistently between consecutive tares...after checking with a reliable scale, the retention after your declumper hack is only like .3g which I am fine with! 👍
Forget the Eureka line, unless you use just 1 type of bean. The dial adjuster for grind setting is the worste. This morning, I went through 6 shots before I dialed in. Wasted 19g per shot and all went to a "Iced Vanilla Latte for wife" insulated bottle in fridge...which is a waste for such pricey specialty beans. They need to update their grind dial for single dosers, as we tend to try medium to dark or light roasts, and we dont want to waste beans. So far in the past 5months I have dumped $300-400 worth. I want to see the DF64 with SSP burrs, the HU or MP vs the newer DF83variable with stock burrs. Last thing I want to do is spend 700 on a grinder then need to update burrs. So if DF64 is fitting my profile in espresso taste, I might do that over 83v. But IDK?
I got the white DF83 v2 a few days ago. Be aware that mine did not come with the wooden lid but with a black metal one (same as you can order as a spare from their website). This is a downgrade in terms of workflow. First, it fits so snug that it's quite tedious to remove from the bellows. Plus, the coating is very slippery which had me drop the lid more than once. It crashed down onto the base and already left some marks.
Are you sure you got the Gen2? There is a DF64 v2 (old version) and DF64 Gen2 (newest version). The difference of “v2” and “Gen2” is not a choice of language, but particular different models of the grinder
@@chris_huelsemeyer Hope so. The grinder (83, not 64) came with the new aluminum dosing cup, the aluminum funnel and it has an ionizer. So all things point to v2. My best guess is that the wooden lids were momentarily out of stock.
@@hookedonwood5830new DF64V come with plasma generator. Only issue is some static noise when not grinding but I was told that they work on solution for that and will send the part that's fixing the issue to people so they can install it
We’re waiting patiently. They are a small company and are fulfilling orders at present so the moment they have a spare unit for review they should be sending it over.
I know. I bought a DF83 v2 this summer. That was a big deal and a fair amount of money for me at the time. It works fine with my Cafelat Robot. I won’t be in the market for a new grinder for quite a while. Maybe I will upgrade the burrs. I use it mostly for expresso. Don’t know which burr would be best for mostly expresso use. Even just upgrading to SSP burrs is a fair amount to spend for me.
@@endoalley680 the italmil burrs are really good for traditional style, heavy bodied shots. The new DLC burrs are a really good upgrade if you’re looking for more clarity and better presentation of acidity.
@@aramse Thanks for great reply. I am looking into the DLC burrs. I will mostly use for expresso. If I wish to do brew or pour-over, will DLC burrs work ok for that application too?
IMPORTANT! Please Read:
1. Sorry about the audio quality drop at 4:47.
2. WARNING: You will not be able to look at the Lagom P64 the same ever again if you watch this video.
3. DO NOT put KY-Jelly in your grinder.
Hi Aramse, for the declumper hack on the df83, did you simply remove one of the declumper layers and only go with the 1? Also, have you noticed any flavor changes as a result to espresso? Sounds like you like it for filter due to less fines. I imagine it to be the same for espresso? Just got the df83 v2 and curious of doing the same hack to lessen fines but don't want to diminish flavor of espresso. Thanks!
"Pinocchio with T-Rex arms asking for a hug"....... Well I didn't see it before you said that but now I can't un-see that 😂
I'd love a grinder showdown! I'm trying to decide on my next grinder and I'd love to know how you would compare the grinders you've used.
Cleaning the plasma generator is a real pain in the exit chute😂
Also you should include the Gorilla Gear and Option O burrs in your 64mm comparison. ❤
Pretty sure you can just shove a brush in there… the chutes not that long….
I'm looking forward for DF83V review!
As well as the Timeore 078S another competitor for the DF83 would be the Niche Duo. I have the Sculptor 078S and a Kopi Deva 64mm grinder yhe Sculptor is so good, the workflow is amazing, I think the Deva makes slightly better espresso, but the workflow is not great, but if you can spemd the time dialing in it gives amazing results, looks great and is built like a tank
Would love a more complete head to head vs. the 078S. But I'm not sure why I want that, because I've already got a 078S on the way...I suppose just to attempt to see how my purchase lines up against the competition.
Asking for a little bit of confirmation bias, eh? From what I see, I don't feel the need to ditch my 078S any time soon.
Same. But from my own personal experience, the 078s wins by a large margin. I briefly owned a DF83v2 and the workflow, cleanliness, and volume all pale in comparison to my 078s.
And to clarify, I mean a taste showdown, or include the 078s burrs in your burr video you're working on. I feel like there is enough out there about the workflow of all these grinders. :)
@@Foolsauce I assume you've already seen the Lance Hedrick Sculptor "unfiltered" video. If not, he has a lot to say on that matter.
@@WillardTurnerYeah, saw it when it came out and his reddit post too about comparisons. It felt like he was so fed up with the Sculptor insanity at that point. Honestly, just waiting for mine and am bored tbh. Don't really need more videos about the 078s.
I just got df 64 gen 2 with dlc burr grinder 2 days ago because of your review
Is there something wrong in my df 64? I'm pulling my ideal shot 1:2-2.5 depends on beans but the clarity of taste notes is very minimal compared to my kingrinder k6? do I need to do something on df 64 gen 2 grinder to make my espresso better? season or alignment?
I don't understand all the hate for the Gen 1 DF64! I've had mine for nearly 3 years (post Hoffman review, I thing mine is the 3rd iteration) and it's really wonderful. Yes it produces a lot of chaff but the workflow is perfect, I have never had the clogging declumper or popcorning issues people talk about a lot, and I don't understand the hate of the original DF64 central placement of the button. If the button was on the side I feel like I would have trouble reaching it since my grinder is right next to my espresso machine
I do have both, DF64 Gen2 and DF83 v2 and can just confirm what you have mentioned. For me, they are great bangs for the buck. Other grinders that can beat them come with a heavier price tag. But your analysis of their quirks is spot on!
Love your channel, great work!
Thank you! Yeah these really surprised me.
Hi! Can you give an advice for me? Should I pay 40% for for getting 83 over 64? Is it worth it?
@@ofreed3973 I wish he would do a video of DF64 SSP HU or MP vs the DF83v stock burrs. these 2 are similar price, but which would be the better espresso grinder.
Is the anti popcorn disk lid assembly from the DF83 identical to the DF64 ? I.e are they interchangeable?
@@0prisonpriest0 highly doubt it. this a horizontal, vs a vertical feed
the df83 you got there is a v3 the only differenes to the v2 are the antipopcorning ring and different bellows
Lol now they have the DF83V which makes both of these look like yesterday's news.
Having recently tried the DF83. I agree, clunky and not refined. However, makes good espresso.
Being a previous DF83 owner who also spent some time with the 64mm DLC burrs, I gotta say your taste description is SPOT ON.
Actually, the whole review is extremely accurate. I'm a big fan of your work and looking forward to your future content.
Keep it up!
We need to see Varia VS3 vs DF64 Gen 2 including diff burrs. Still torn which one to go with mainly espresso
Agree. Curious to see Hypernova burr, or even stock in Varia vs DF64 w/stock burr. Actually even a test of Lagom Mini, Varia VS3, DF64 in comparison light and medium roast beans. If included the Starseeker Edge would be great.
"I can review with a clean slate" - proceeds to compare the previous gen multiple times 😂
Got my DF64 Gen 2 a week ago, and while its early Im loving it! The catch cup is also matching black and the catch cup holder is now black metal with no rattle which is nice, and the declumper is single layered. Almost like they watched this video for their latest version haha!
Bring on the showdown
Cleaning plasma generator seem like a rather noticeable design flaw, the flap mod is also still a work in progress… Hopefully the DF83v solves most of this. However what I seen on SSP so far the difference between 83 vs 64 is very very mute. Meaning currently I see no real gain (in the cup) to go with 83.
Personally I dream of an affordable 80mm that can take Core and ultra burr because these are vastly better burrs then those currently found on 64mm and 83mm.
I just ordered a DF64 with SSP multipurpose burrs fitted at factory. Can’t wait for it to arrive. Your review hasn’t disappointed me. Thanks!
How has it been so far ? I want to order the same grinder and the ssp for filter and espresso
Very pleased but be careful when you season the grinder with coffee. You need to use the bellows for each portion of coffee used or the grinder or shute will clog up.
@@justinlouismusic can you not take the chute out and put a tupperware under it? You can also use some softer rice types. Also helps when cleaning the grinder.
Thank you for the declumper tip. I recently bought a DF64 and was surprised by the amount of fines produced. Made filter coffee kind of unpleasant, I'm gonna try this hack
fyi, the default grinders ship with espresso burrs. not made for drip.
Thanks for the video! Been looking at the DF64 Gen 2 for a while now, glad to see another review on it. Would you recommend either if I do mostly pourovers with occasional espresso drinks?
Both its good for both especially if you get the ssp multipurpose burs
The original DF64s weren't that bad I've had a bunch. Due to quality control though some seemed better than others. Retention and overall design on the df83 of 64 gen2 which is similar is an improvement though.
Sounds like you just don't like portafilter forks. Like the p64 the DF64 portafilter forks work fine but some portafilters may fit better than others. Adding or removing the silicon socks can help with that. Also the catch cup and funnel are a much appreciated upgrade for most people lol. You want something that just works nicely you need the p64. My one main complaint on my early build df83 funnel is that it fits loosely and rattles a bigger thicker gasket would fix that!
Not sure what would make you say the build or feel is nicer on the ode than it is on the DF grinders. Both feel fine to me but DF is definitely heavier and heavier duty feeling as a result.
You are correct. I know people who were happy with the OG. I just don’t have any regrets not trying to it. Haha. Also my issue is not with the forks per se. It’s more of a design and visual balance thing for me. My designer brian just flags it as disproportionate and tacked on. Can’t help it. For comparison, the fork on the EG 1 or any of the Kafatek grinders are substantial and actually look like a part of the overall aesthetic. I hope I’m explaining it properly. :)
Big yes to burr comparison please!! 😊
Great review!
I would love to see a comparison video.
I thought the same thing initially that the df83 has a more traditional conical burr like taste profile. Befofe being seasoned or modding the declumper. I actually compared it with a Niche Zero and my friends Sette when i first got the df83. Seemed like DF83 had similar but slightly less body a little more clarity than both of those but very similar profile one thing we noticed was DF83 was smoother with less bitterness. However i think if we'd compare again now it would be more night and day difference with df83 being lower body and higher clarity and likely a little more acidity. I wonder how the df83 would be with Mazzer burrs if that would put it back towards being more traditional.
These burrs are fully seasoned at this point with around 4-5kgs of beans. It still has a pretty blended profile and a lot of texture.
Yes for showdown! Please include the DF83V
Nah, give me a niche zero
I wish this came in with a silencer
Do you prefer 83 SSP MP to 78 turbo? Got myself sculptor 78 and plan on getting df64v with ssp mp. It is as close as you can get to p64 without breaking the bank.
It's just personal preference at that point. 078 more juicy, 83mp sharper in a good way
This channel definitely deserves a lot more subscribers.. Though I feel you may focus on a little bit lower budget machines as well.
Thank you! It’s definitely on the to do list to cover more affordable gear.
Hi, I'd love to see a more detailed video comparing these two to the Timemore 078s... I am heading for an upgrade and have my eye on both of these brands... taste with stock burrs, as I am unlikely to want to change burrs every time I change coffee percolation type!
Thanks!
So glad that I stumble upon your channel. I am currently looking to get my first all-purpose grinder (filter and espresso), narrowed down to DF64 v2, Sculptor 064s, or Varia VS3 gen2 as all of these fall into similar price point. Which one would you pick? Anyway, thanks and cant wait to see more reviews. Cheers!!
This video comes at the perfect time. I'm currently contemplating buying on of these two and the comparison is really helpful.
Nice review Aramse! I would be interested in a grinder showdown or maybe even just a burr showdown. Is the Sculptor 076 still the filter king in your book or have you found anything better/on the horizon?
At that price point yes. It’s still amazing and I use it is almost everyday. I do think the 83 MP edges it out but that’s a $1000 price tag at this point. I’m still testing though and they haven’t been fully seasoned just yet.
Let me ask you something.
With the same beans grinding in 83 vs 64 what are your dial in settings?
Do both grinders grind at the same number? Lets say 15 or is there a difference?
Subbed....
WHY????? WHYYYYYY??????
Now I can't unsee Pinocchio with T-Rex arms pleading for a hug!!! 😂
Ooh okay I get it now, you're just trying to hurt us like you were when someone on Reddit said the 078 looks like a sewing machine and that you couldn't unsee it. That's a bit sadistic 😂
It’s a risk you’ll have to take if you decide to watch our video. Haha.
@@aramse yeah love the pokerface humour 😂
would you pick the DF83 over the sculptor 078s? I have the 78s and then of 4 kilos I feel so much unconsistency in the grinding, how many kilos of coffe I need to waste to sazonate it....does It will change? I am a bit worried
Hi! What point for espresso you get for DF64 Gen 2 Coffee Grinder ? 8? 9? 10?
I'm mainly a filter/pourover coffee drinker. I was wondering if the df64 gen 2 could take fellow ode gen 2 burrs. I really like the body to clarity ratio they give.
I don't get how people factor in noise level when buying a grinder, like your grinding coffee, for a small amount of time XD
i have the d64 v2 in white ... im not a fan of the black .... also got mine with the DLC burrs ... this grinder is pretty amazing ( compared to my breville )
Would a Niche-like cover over the top of these drastically reduce their obnoxious volume?...maybe a simple plastic food carton to experiment. A bandaid...yes. But it'd be nice to know if a simple flip cover would resolve the noise problem.
I look forward to big DF comparison video...especially the DF64V's volume vs the others.
Cheers
Couldn’t live with the df83 wildly inconsistent one morning I dial it in two shots later espresso is gushing the next day it chokes the machine without touching the grinder. I tried everything except for the declumper. I’m going for the sculpter 64s hopefully that works better.
How would you rank the 078, 64mm SSP MP, and 83mm SSP MP from best to worst (filter/pourover only)?
Hi Aramse, thank you for your great video(s)! Could you use rpm like 800 too for the filter ssp df64 gen2 burr comparison? Would be very interesting but honestly, also a lot of extra work :-(
Not sure I follow your question. The Gen 2 is not variable RPM. Only the V models are. Or are you asking if we can compare the SSP to the Gen 2 burrs at 800 rpm on another grinder?
@@aramse hi, sorry for the unclear question, nonetheless you got it right. If you "only" test on a DF64 - of course you will compare at one RPM. But I read, that for instance SSPcast are great for filter at ~800RPM and also very good for espresso at ~1400RPM. So, it would be interesting to have the filter test for SSBcast and the DF64gen2 burrs at lower RPM too...But no matter what you do, I am looking forward to it & thx in advance!
What’s the difference between the Turin and the Miicoffee manufacturers?
Any chance you'd be reviewing the DF54 in the near future?
For filter only which grinder did you prefer more the DF83 or the sculptor 078?
With the stock burrs the 83 is just OK at filter. The 078 is incredible. With the 83mm SSP MP it gets very close with the DF83 probably edging out the 078 a bit. And the SSPs aren't fully seasoned yet.
@@aramse Thanks for the info, I don’t plan on spending more on SSP burrs so i’ll go with the 078!
Thank you for your well executed review :)
Great review thank you! Comparison against the 078S would be very useful!
We talk about this briefly towards the end of the video. :)
The 078S is limited in range and the thread pitch is tight. Not worth the trouble. It looks nice though.
I really hope you'll make that video on the SSP Burrs
definitely would love a showdown!
The deadpan delivery of humor on this channel is just *chef’s kiss*
Alright, hopping right along…
Just picked up the DF64 GEN2 with DLC burrs too replace my not so old baratza ESP because i switch between two coffees quite allot and im hopping the less retention will give me better consistency. I noticed that the baratza encore esp retains alllotttt of crap and wasnt too happpy with all the plastic bits inside. Hope i made the right decision fingers crossed….
This should be a pretty big upgrade. :)
What’s the sarcasm rating of each grinder… or this episode? 😂
SHOWDOWN! SHOWDOWN! SHOWDOWN! SHOWDOWN! SHOWDOWN! SHOWDOWN!
“Sopranos from Hell.” Excellent.
Adamse, you have a most piquant sense of humor. Always one of the best elements of your very fine reviews. “KY could make it stiffer.”
I have tbe df64 v2, and I can't complain. Get superb coffee and zero retention
Would love a comparison for categories "filter only" , "espresso only", "mixed" and also for burrs. Does it really matter in which machine you put the ssp burrs? Should taste the same everwhere, right ?
It would be nice if it were that simple but nothing with coffee seems to be. Haha. So these are just a few of the variables that affect the grounds - the burr chamber, the feeding system (direct or auger fed or auger fed with pre breaker), the burr orientation and rpm. So unfortunately moving burrs from one grinder to another will not give you identical performance. As for the comparison video it’s in the works and it’ll cover filter and espresso. It’s so much work but we’ll hopefully have that ready soon.
Nice video! Who is making DF64? It seems so many grinder called DF64.
It’s made in some factory in China, white labelled and sold under various brand names around the world.
It's crazy that these grinders still need fiddling. Never again (I have one of the original DF64s).
For the price I'd say these are definitely now well within the tolerable level of fiddling required. But I get that the trauma from using the OG could very well put one off DF grinders for life. Luckily there's no dearth of alternatives. :)
I do NOT want you to make a showdown video.
So i was always told bigger burrs better taste.
Dont like it here.
I got a 64mm flat burr grinder and want to go to 80+ mm
But my grinder works fine and makes good coffee so not sure if its worth it.
You're definitely hitting diminishing returns quite hard at this point. If you're happy with your coffee then just keep your current grinder. If you're curious and have the spare cash then go for it. It's fun.
Didn’t the DF64 gen 1 have the little springs, and gen 2 the circular wave thing?
Yup Gen 2 has the wave spring
Thank you for the video. I try to find out if the emil 64 is as good as g-iota gen2 when it comes to grinding loudness and statikmess?
Haven’t used the emil
Will the ode gen 2 burrs fit in these for filter?
I don’t want my coffee to be edgy….
I just returned my Fellows Ode gen 2 because the ionization stopped working after around 2 months. I ordered the DF64 gen 2, so hopefully it works better.
Which site did you buy from? That has a 2 month return policy
@@jake7808 kitchen Kaboodle
When bending the declumper up in the df64 gen 2 did you bend it up above the deionizer or below the deionizer?
Just below
interesting video, as usual, and with a little touch of humour that I appreciate.😊👍
Your description of the espresso produced by the 83 made my mouth water!
Which is better for espresso? DF83 or 078s (assuming both are using stock burrs and seasoned)?
What about for filter coffee? Can either DF83 or 078s stock burrs come somewhat close to a 078, or is the 078 on a completely different level for filter coffee?
Or better yet, have you ever tried making espresso with a 078? I remember Lance Hedrick making espresso with a filter coffee focused hand grinder (ZP6) and being surprised at how good it was. I'd really like to get a 078 but I also want espresso from time to time.
Ok I'll reply in order.
1) The 83 stock burrs are excellent for traditional style espresso that are low more acidity and clarity but really high on sweetness and texture. The 078S burrs are better for more modern style espresso which better structured acidity and clarity and these burrs are much better for filter than the stock 83.
2) No comparison, the 078 is a filter beast. But comparing the 078S and stock 83 the former comes out ahead with better clarity and overall balance in the cup.
3)The 078 will not do espresso at 9bars. You maybe able to do it with a very dark roast but I doubt you'd want to drink it. You'll also have to grind uncomfortably fine (burr chirp) to build that kind of pressure. It is however capable of turbo shots and does pretty well at that.
@@aramse Thanks a bunch. You've convinced me to get the 078. 078 seems to be a one of kind filter grind for its price range and I actually prefer turbo shots over modern style espresso. Might also get a DF83 or other traditional espresso focused grinder in the future just for thick high body espresso.
Modern style espresso never made sense to me since it doesn't have the clarity and acid balance of pour overs, body + mouthfeel of traditional style, or sweetness and consistency of turbos. Its like a middle ground that doesn't excel at any one thing. 078s seems like a middleman between 078(clarity-acidity) and DF83(body).
I got the 64 Gen 2.
With apologies , I missed which burr set your DF64 g2 had installed. Thanks.
The stock burrs which are made by Turin themselves. These aren’t the italmils that used to ship with earlier version of the 64.
@@aramseMy 64 Gen 2 has the espresso favored burrs as well, not the Italmill. Also the white, not red on-off switch.
What grind range were you using for filter with your df83? I've found 70-90 is necessary which is way bigger than I would require in other grinders.
I was actually between 65 and 70
@@aramse ok. I'm not that far off then. Also. "The declumper hack for filter" I haven't done that on mine. What vidro do you talk about this?
KY jelly 😂
Love the video. I'd definitely be interested in a showdown video!
showdown pls
Yoo.. this is a legit review
7:08 "ky jelly" iykyk 😏
exactly the video I was looking for. Thanks!
does it taste really bad if i dont remove the declumper for filter grind settings?
i dont want to mess my grinder and the seller says it will void my warranty , if i mod it
thank you for your reply
currently i am mostly filter with occasional manual espresso drinker
If you worried about warranty then just open up the burr carrier and push the declumper flaps into the chute using say this chopsticks.
Okay noted thanks for your help man
Thanks for showing the DF83 declumper mod. Unfortunately, I'm still getting a ton of retention even after doing that and also using RDT. I wonder if it's just a fact of life with this grinder and super dry Denver winters?
Ah it could be. So it looks like the retention at the top seems to be non exchange so once it’s filled up it just stays put. The only issue is that you need to brush it to clean out the declumper every once in a while which mean that you’ll get retention again until that fills up. Very annoying. The chute definitely needs work.
@@aramse I definitely do feel like the dryness and resulting mega static I notice around my house is a contributing factor to coffee wanting to stick to that plastic chute so fiercely. My poor cat gets zapped every time I pet her lately.
Guess I'll just keep pipe cleaners and a small vacuum in my workflow....
@@aramse Update: Turns out I am just dumb...my scale is flaking out and weighing wildly inconsistently between consecutive tares...after checking with a reliable scale, the retention after your declumper hack is only like .3g which I am fine with! 👍
Showdown!!! You do some of the best content on YT! I want more!!!
I’d love a eureka mignon zero for comparison
Thank you!
Forget the Eureka line, unless you use just 1 type of bean. The dial adjuster for grind setting is the worste. This morning, I went through 6 shots before I dialed in. Wasted 19g per shot and all went to a "Iced Vanilla Latte for wife" insulated bottle in fridge...which is a waste for such pricey specialty beans. They need to update their grind dial for single dosers, as we tend to try medium to dark or light roasts, and we dont want to waste beans. So far in the past 5months I have dumped $300-400 worth. I want to see the DF64 with SSP burrs, the HU or MP vs the newer DF83variable with stock burrs. Last thing I want to do is spend 700 on a grinder then need to update burrs. So if DF64 is fitting my profile in espresso taste, I might do that over 83v. But IDK?
Are either of these okay for filter coffee?
We talk about this in the review. There’s a whole segment on taste :)
Very well done. And I enjoy the humor. 😊
thoughts on Zerno Z1 V2?
Waiting patiently for one. :) I think they are fulfilling orders so the moment a unit becomes available we should get it.
Great video 👍🏻👍🏻
I got the white DF83 v2 a few days ago. Be aware that mine did not come with the wooden lid but with a black metal one (same as you can order as a spare from their website). This is a downgrade in terms of workflow. First, it fits so snug that it's quite tedious to remove from the bellows. Plus, the coating is very slippery which had me drop the lid more than once. It crashed down onto the base and already left some marks.
got my DF83V2 a week ago, and I mine has the "wooden" lid. The grinder is built like a tank ;-)
Are you sure you got the Gen2? There is a DF64 v2 (old version) and DF64 Gen2 (newest version). The difference of “v2” and “Gen2” is not a choice of language, but particular different models of the grinder
@@chris_huelsemeyer Hope so. The grinder (83, not 64) came with the new aluminum dosing cup, the aluminum funnel and it has an ionizer. So all things point to v2. My best guess is that the wooden lids were momentarily out of stock.
@@MaltePersike my fault, I read DF64 first. But for DF83 there is only a v2, so you got the right one :)
"Hopping right along" :)
Beaten only by the KY Jelly may make things stiffer. 😂
Are these available in India?😊
Through DF64’s website, yes
Great review
You said that the declumper hack is needed for filter could you explain more?
It's help a lot for both in fact. Just that the fines produced at coarser filter settings can really clog the filter and produce very acrid brews.
thanks for coming back to me so quickly, do you have a video tutorial @@aramse
@@BloxTube101 it’s shown in this video :)
Perfect thank you so do you just completely open it up the square plastic piece @@aramse
The df64v basically solves all the issues you mentioned 😁
but is missing the plasma generator.. - love mine though - but would like less statics.
@@hookedonwood5830 use a spritz of water rdt.
@@hookedonwood5830new DF64V come with plasma generator. Only issue is some static noise when not grinding but I was told that they work on solution for that and will send the part that's fixing the issue to people so they can install it
Very new to espresso and grinding with a hand grinder is a pain. Where I'm from, the DF64 gen 2 is just under $340. Hard to beat.
The price to performance is shocking to say the least. :)
@@aramseand the upgrade to SSP is not huge. Around $500 all in. DF are doing an early bird special offer before 1 Feb.
@@justinlouismusic nuts
Wow @kenvme where is that?
@@ManishKungwani Philippines man
The Zerno, where is the Zerno?!
We’re waiting patiently. They are a small company and are fulfilling orders at present so the moment they have a spare unit for review they should be sending it over.
@@aramse + 1 for a Zerno review too!
Too late. DF83V is the new thing.
Currently testing that. The 83V is $800, that’s double the 64 and still a decent amount more than the 83. There’s always going to be a new thing :)
I know. I bought a DF83 v2 this summer. That was a big deal and a fair amount of money for me at the time. It works fine with my Cafelat Robot. I won’t be in the market for a new grinder for quite a while. Maybe I will upgrade the burrs. I use it mostly for expresso. Don’t know which burr would be best for mostly expresso use. Even just upgrading to SSP burrs is a fair amount to spend for me.
@@endoalley680 the italmil burrs are really good for traditional style, heavy bodied shots. The new DLC burrs are a really good upgrade if you’re looking for more clarity and better presentation of acidity.
@@aramse Thanks for great reply. I am looking into the DLC burrs. I will mostly use for expresso. If I wish to do brew or pour-over, will DLC burrs work ok for that application too?