I recently got into coffee and my first grinder is the Comandante C40. I can grind 18 grams at 8 or 9 clicks in a little over a minute and a half. Not a big deal and I'm 75 and not athletic at all. I now have the DF54 but still use the hand grinder for my Moka Pot. You make it sound way too difficult and strenuous, it's not really. I do really enjoy your channel. Keep it up!
Please don't judge me, but I use an electric screwdriver to drive my hand grinders. It's a cheap screwdriver, it doesn't spin very fast, and I had it already so the incremental cost was null. In my impression taste-wise it does the same as "hand-powered" grinding, and I don't think that it stresses the mechanism. Maybe it's actually better : by hand you always put some amount of force "sideways", while with a motor it's just torque aligned with the grinder axis. If you want to cut down the cost and don't want to buy an electric grinder, it's a great option.
If it can handle it or not depends on how good the ball bearings are, some grinder manufacturers actually encourage people to use a screwdriver with their grinders (like Kingrinder).
Tilting your hand grinder when you grind slows the feed rate. This makes it easier to grind although the grind takes longer. Helps for hand grinding Espresso though! I think DF54 for espresso and ZP6 for filter is the way. New Varia grinder seems cool though...
My only problem with these Handgrinders is: at first glance it sounds great. "I can buy an AMAZING grinder for 260€? wow.... " but then I take a deep breath and think: "well what if i get tired of grinding manually all the time? Then I'll end up buying and eletric and when you realized you spen way more than expected." on top of this I'm also on the fence wether i go for an espresso grinder (since i only drink espressos) but the realiy is, i only drink espressos because I dont have any equipment that even allows me to explore other coffee experiences. "What if then i want to try something different? I'll have to change the grinder again.." ... "260€ maybe I should just add extra 50€ and go for an eletric like the Baraza encore esp or any decent one around 300€?"..... These reviews give me the real FOMO
In that case you realize it probably after 2-3 months and sell your hand grinder for 30€ less. They don't lose their value as fast as their electric counterparts. Upside is: if it doesn't come to this, you get yourself a premium hand grinder for just 260€ while your friends upgraded their electric grinders for the 3rd time and are still not close to electric grinder endgame 😅 PS: a hand grinder like the K-Ultra does a great job for espresso, filter, aeropress and pretty much all other brewing methods. Can't say that for my Eureka espresso grinder or most other electric grinders at this price point
I use an electric drive setup for my J-Max. It was painful on my 88 year old shoulders to be able to continue manually. I highly recommend this change to electric power.
My experience with manual grinders matches your thoughts here. For several years I used a Hario Skerton, and last Christmas I got a Timemore C2 Max(I think, they have a lot of similar sounding models!) The C2 Max has been lovely to use, very well made, and it definitely does a better job than the Skerton.
The thing about the baratza encore isn't the burrset. It's the absolutely atrocious collar burr stability. The collar burr is a whole 0.5mm smaller in diameter than the plastic housing that it sits in (I measured mine with calipers). The hopper, grind adjustment mechanism and burr assembly are all locked together when in operation so the burr moving around with 500 microns of play causes the entire upper assembly to move too. Which is why the hopper shakes like it's had too much coffee whenever you grind beans. The fact that the grinder can make great coffee at all is a testament to just how good the burrs are. The Lido grinders are considered some of the best medium roasts/ espresso grinders and they basically use the same burrset only with actual good alignment and stability.
If I had to get a super compact minimal setup for both pour over and espresso, it would be a Hario switch, 9barista, and an x-pro. Minimal footprint, super flexible, and sub 1K (with a pouring kettle included) is a difficult combo to beat.
Can you recommend a good-better-best tier on what grinders would offer the best texture/body (as opposed to clarity)? Hand grinders are fine with me! I’m a beginner, but went to a local roaster and think I tend to like bold medium/medium-dark roasted coffees with a lot of body/texture and lower acidity. I would be fine getting separate grinders for pour over and espresso. Thanks for your video and comment interaction!
From cheap to more expensive: Timemore C3 ESP, 1Zpresso J Ultra, Baratza Sette 30, Eureka Specialita Mignon, Niche Zero. All these are pretty textured. Specialita might be a bit more balanced and sweet than the other ones, but should also be put in this category of enjoyable traditional espresso grinders.
Thanks for the detailed reply! Would you recommend the same grinders for pour over coffee as well? (For example, I’ve used your Aeropress XL recipe and enjoy using the Hario Switch!)
@@Richthe1stest It depends on your brewing style and preferences. If you like medium/dark roasts and stronger coffee, they can work. But for the more light and top-note focused modern coffees, they are not ideal. If you want something for all brewing methods, then one of the handgrinders would be my choice.
@@coffeechronicler Thank you! I do like stronger medium/dark - not a fan of the modern/light tastes. so sounds like just one might work for me. I had looked into the OE Lido OG, but the J Ultra looks hard to beat! Thanks so much for your help!
I got a Timemore S3 this year and I really like it, I don't have an espresso machine so I only use it for my Moka Pot and French Press, works super well. Also you can take it everywhere and you don't need electricity which is great too. Also the price is unreal. 80€ for such a grinder, any electrical one would cost 200+ with the same quality
WITH A QUALITY HANDGRINDER THAT WILL LAST FOR AGES , MY PREFERRED GRINDER THE 1ZPRESSO ZP6, AND A STAINLESS STEEL VERSION OF THE MOKA POT ( ALUMINUM SCARES ME AS REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS STATE ALUMINUM IS NOT HEALTHY) , YOU WILL BE PREPARED FOR WHEN THERE MAY BE A SITUATION THERE IS NO GAS OR ELECTRICITY. THE MOKA CAN BE USED WITH MANY TYPES OF CAMPING STOVES IF NEEDED, UTILIZING MANY TYPES OF FUEL... OF COURSE MY TYPICAL POUR OVER WITH THE HARIO SWITCH AND MY HANDGRINDER ARE VERY COST EFFECTIVE, AND FOR ME, I AM TOTALLY SATISFIED , NOT EVER NEEDING TO SPEND THOUSANDS FOR THE CHASE OF A GOOD CUP OF ESPRESSO.
Dear Asser, I'm facing a dilemma, and you seem like the perfect person to help me out. Should my first metal-burr pour-over hand grinder be the Timemore C3s Max or the new S3? Does the S3 grind noticeably more uniformly compared to the C3s? Because it is quite a bit more expensive. I see you've tried several Timemore grinders, so you're probably the right person to ask. As mentioned, it will be used specifically for filter coffee/pour-over, so my Sage electric grinder can be dedicated solely to espresso. I'm getting tired of switching back and forth between espresso and pour-over on the same limited range grinder… I think that the S3 price is quite a lot for a hand grinder, but if it delivers significantly better results, it would be worth it in the end.
I've been through mostly conical grinders. I've used an orphan espresso pharos for 10 years, pour overs only. It is very different than a flat burr high speed (ek43), i've side by sided it many times. Most conical grinders lack clarity as you mention. I've used a capresso, sette and encore. The newer variable speed, conical or flat seems to be the game changer. I've just started using a df83v just on 500 rpm so far. Very different. With espresso burrs. Espresso out of that vs the sette is quite different too. I'm still just a beginner with flat burrs, i recommend you give a flat burr something a try. And variable speed. Did i mention anything is quieter than a sette (super loud annoying pitch). Hand grinding is very fast with the pharos but the profile isn't what i'm into at the moment.
I bought my first Monolith Flat (which still runs like a pretty modern grinder) in '17 while both the LM and SW are significantly better than the mythos burrs, how far have we really come? Prebreakers already existed with the Versalab for example for years.
Still using my JMax. It is a bit of a workout. I own the Timemore 78S. But despite having put 6+ kilos of beans through it, the espresso that I get from it is far from satisfactory. I hope that one day I will get great espresso from it.
Still convinced to get myself the DF54. Ill get to espresso and refine my first love, the old nice moka. And maybe, start a nice pourover with a clever dripper. DF64 is just too expensive
Dont know, the smart aspect of the sage seems kinda cool with the great hopper but keep coffee on the light seem bad for its freshness. Personally i do prefer single dosing, since i take two cup max at home and i feel lazy for hand grinding xd
I think that demanding coffee grinders are important if you drink light roasted coffee or espresso. If you drink medium to dark roasted coffee then probably decent hand grinder will be enough. I’m struggling with brewing light roasted coffee because of acidity which can be too harsh. To smooth acidity you either have to use probably flat burr grinders or to buy special coffee beans which don’t give sharp acidity. But I generally prefer roast which is between medium and dark. The profile which I get is rather standard and boring ( similar) because in that roast range beans taste similar. Though despite that it is not easy to get coffee beans which you will enjoy. There is often lack of balance.
Asser Long time listener. Always appreciate your work. I am retiring my Sette 270 that I modded to single dosing for espresso only. Always enjoyed the work flow, low retention, and shots. Brutally loud motor. Look for a conical single dosing electric grinder for light-medium, and medium washed coffee roasts for espresso. Usually doing ristretto capuccinios and 2:1 flat whites in the am. Have an Ode 2 for filter. Hard to find a conical at a price point less than $1,000 and the Niche Zero seems to come out as the best conical option for low retention, quieter motor, easy cleaning, and efficient workflow. Am I missing something? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. Have you considered one of the new heptagonal conical grinders that follow the low rpm/glorified handgrinder design? Both the Sniper from MWH-3Bomber and the Femobooks I have tried (A68/A5) make good espresso and are less noisy/overall more pleasant than the Sette family.
Thanks for the video. I always find your content quite useful, and based on your insights, I'm on the verge of buying a DF54, DF64, or Timemore 064s (too many good options right now, but the DF54 is in the lead). I currently own a J-Max and I'm curious about how it compares for pourover. Do you think it ranks equal, worse, or better than a Timemore C2/C3 or a 1Zpresso X-Ultra? After getting the DF54, I'm wondering if I should sell the J-Max and get something more focused on pourover like the C3, or if I should keep it since the cup quality might be similar. I like to have two grinders on hand. I mainly drink light roast for pourover but enjoy everything from light to dark in espresso.
J Max and DF54 are better for pour over than C2 and C3. The DF54 is quite capable, so you'd probably need to go up to a K-Ultra or ZP6 to get anything noticeable better/different.
Nice video. I wanted to know if there are any significant differences between the Timemore C1 and C2 grinder and if the grinding settings are the same? Because I'm looking for how many clicks to set my C1 to but I only find up to C2. And is it worth upgrading to C3 from C1?
A welcome overview in grinders. I have a Baratza Virtuoso which has been good for aeropresd. I need an espresso dedicated electric grinder on a budget. How true about older grinds. I used to own Rancillio Silvia and Rocky. That Rocky was a brick but difficult dialing in for espresso. A DF54 might be right
I have a Baratza Encore ESP for about an year and a little rock mixed with the beans messed its burrs up, which made me consider upgrade it (instead of getting a new burr set). 95% of the coffee I drink at home is Espresso and the budget would be around 500€. Any sugestions? I've been considering the Eureka Oro Single dose, DF64, and a bit overbudget the Timemore Sculptor... but any suggestion is aprecitated.
thanks for this.. 👍🙏 .looks like we do need 1-2 grinders especially if one likes to drink across a larger spectrum: light-medium/dark roasts.(sorry i'm too new to understand if i prefer washed, natural, anaerobic or honey processed etc)..i have a 078 (from the kickstarter, upgraded from breville pro) as I'm experimenting with lighter roasts but I also love medium (and occasional med-dark roasts with cream)..so might compliment my 078 with a K Ultra, Q2 or Timemore S3...good combo in your opinion?
Yes, K Ultra+078 would be a great combo, as you also get espresso + medium/dark roasts, and they are a different enough for light roasts to give you two contrasting cups. You don't "need" 2 grinders necessarily. But it's a bit like most serious photographers also have a few different lenses to use for their cameras to capture the best image :)
@@coffeechronicler thanks....for now i'm only into filter/aeropress, frenchpress, pourover. ..what of the Timemore S3 to compliment the 078, or is the cup from the K Ultra still the better bet?.
@@choppersplace The S3 flavor profile has a lot of things in common with the 078, so not the best contrast. And it also struggles with espresso. Really nice grinder, but not the ideal in your scenario.
Great video! I’m looking to replace my 270wi, for espresso grinding, and I’m soooo confused by all the options that are everywhere. I do not drink specialty, and I prefer lattes and cortados (milk drinks) What would you recommend to buy as a dane looking for a white grinder, that primarely drink milk-based espresso-drinks, and have a budget of max 4000DKK
If you're in the states you can get a Yukaofes U Pro S grinder off the fleabays for a heavy discount. It has the same burrset as the R3 and I'm 99.9% sure the grinder itself is made by the same factory as the high end timemore grinders.
I know you said future proof, but I would hope you know and I believe you do about the warranties and maybe service ratings or what can go wrong, thank you.
Great stuff as always, I like how nuanced your takes are. I currently own a 1zpresso JX pro, and I am thinking about upgrading to a a Ode Gen 2, ZP6 or a K ultra for pour overs. I mostly drink light roasted coffees. Any suggestions?
Hi, loved the Vid, thanks this is super helpful. I am keen on a La Pavoni Evo machine for home and I have been completly bamboozled by all the options in the market, thank you for this video! I think you mentioned the Single Dose DF54 which looks like a good option for me, making 3-4 coffees at home a day. (Mainly flat whites as I'm Australian, of course! ;) ) I'd love to know if this is a pairing you would make or would you suggest an alternate option, please? Thank you! 😁☕
Thanks! I'd probably consider the Lelit Mara X V2 or Profitec 400 instead of La Pavoni (I have a Mara X review coming soon btw). DF54 would be good for your purpose.
Awesome video, I have a new breville barista express and want a better grinder but not sure if i must get DF64 Gen 2 or eureka specialita/Eureka mignon grinder, could you please advise me?
@coffeechronicler I am on the way for my first home set up. I drink only pure espresso and i am thinking to get the Mazzer Philos. I know is expensive but i think it's better to cry once. I don't know if i like light roast and in my region everyone has commercial coffee, so i can't taste them. I don't know which burrs to get. I would appreciate your opinion. It's really hard if you are starting this journey to choose equipment.
Philos is still a bit new, so I haven't played around with it yet. If you're new to coffee and plan on drinking espresso only, my guess is you'll feel a lot home with at least medium-dark roasts. I'd suggest a Eureka Mignon Specialita if you plan on hopper-based, a DF54 if you're going to single dose. Or a Baratza Sette if you want something that works with either dosing method.
I have a Eureka Mignon Facile Espresso Grinder 50mm it works well, I have upgraded from a Breville Barita Pro to a Lelit Mara X, do you think going to a DF64 with SSP burrs would be much of an upgrade, thanks for any help :)
Really depends on what coffee you’re using for espresso. If you prefer traditional style espresso or primarily just drink milk beverages then I’d say no. But if you’re into more light roasts and drink primarily espresso than yes.
@@JT-zy2ft Thank you, I forgot to tell what drinks I make, I like a Latte with 4oz milk and 10ml of sweetener 19g in 50g out, I do use some med-lite roasts but Like Med to some Med-dark not into the fruity coffee, but again I've not try very many so who knows, lol :)
@@coffeechronicler Thanks for reply. thinking about it my Eureka is all I need, not fast but have put Bellow single dose, incline, and a Large dial for setting grind, love your channel :)
You need a hand grinder with pretty big capacity - probably around 44-45 g to brew 700 ml. Mainly Lido-series are this big. DF54 is surprisingly good for filter coffee.
Hello, between a timemore s3, a 1zpresso x-ultra or a j-ultra, which one do you recommend for versatile use? that gives me good results and durability.
@@coffeechroniclerThank you for your response. Highly appreciated. If I wanted to balance out these flavours accentuated by the Q2s, should I brew longer and or grind finer [medium roast , medium to dark roasts, Aeropress, James Hoffmann method] ?
Great video! I would love to hear your recommendations for espresso grinder for someone who want something between DF64 and option o p 64? Not prosumer yet, but already picky :)
Thanks this is super helpful! I'm looking to upgrade my Timemore c2 to more mid range grinder (for pour over only). I'm wandering if a hand grinder (eg zp6) would be better to contrast it with or a flat burr, which currently means electric (like df54)? I originally thought hand grinder would always be better value than electric but now there are flat burrs that seem to be good for pour over it's not so clear to me... thanks so much for all your content!
Both are good grinders which will produce good coffee. Really depends on how much you want to get into coffee. In terms of quality to cost zp6 is the better value.
I'm not aware of a test like that. However, heat generation is a bigger concern for commercial applications than home use, so don't think most normal people need to worry too much about it.
I'm the opposite: I like medium/dark espresso and find the beans are soft, so hand grinding is fine (have a JX Pro). Plus I have a flair so I never need more than 17g or so. But for filter or French press, I like light roast and find the beans much more brittle and need more 'grunt'. Plus I'm often making larger brews, so grinding 25 to 30 grams. So I got a Timemore 64 and I love it. Nothing is easier on the brain in the morning than French press and electric grinder 😂
Hi. All I do is pour over. Mainly V60. Is the Fellow Ode Gen 2 a good choice or would the DF54 or DF64 be a better choice? I mainly do light or light/medium roasts. I will never do espresso at home. I have a Knock Feld 2 and a Helor 101 but I am not exactly young and I am tired of hand grinding every single day.
@coffeechronicler How do you rate the quality of the Sage/Breville Dual Boiler (Behind you) for espresso quality with a great grinder like the Eureka Specialita? Do you think the Dual Boiler is better then heat exchange ones? Also do you think the JX Pro/Ultra manual grinder can fine grind coffee for espresso better than say the eureka specialita? If not, which level of electric grinder do you think it stops at?
The Dual Boiler has great temperature stability and is better than most HX in that sense. But a good HX like Lelit Mara X can do a similar job. 1Zpresso Jx/Ultra are both fine for espresso, but my personal preference would lean to Eureka most of the time.
Haven't tried Manuale, but own several other Mignon grinders so based on that I'd generally recommend the DF54. The main exception to that would be if you ONLY drink espresso, and you love a sweet, textured classic shot.
@@asdfdsa604 Not necessarily, but it makes the decision a bit harder :) If you want to be single dosing and be in that more modern espresso/coffee category then I'll still lean towards DF54. But if you plan to do hopper-based and more traditional blends, then Eureka.
@@coffeechronicler I see, then all things considered do you think the DF64 gen 2 will be a better choice overall? I do love a clean and strong cup of espresso, and occasionally some pourovers, so the df64 may be a more futureproof option?
I recently got the X-Pro, and almost every time i use it a bean or two will get stuck. After grinding all the beans, it seems like i need to knock and and shake it a little bit and keep grinding for another 10-20 seconds to make sure everything went through. This never happened with my old Aergrind. Anybody else experience this? It does seem like it has gotten a little better with use.
This also happens to me with the x-pro, with certain beans. Also extra round beans will sometimes roll around on the burr and not catch for the initial crack, so I’ll have to crank back and forth until it grabs.
But you didn't mention which hand grinders are most ideal for expressos.. could you answer that for me? I have a ZP6 and a timemore c3 but they don't seem to go well on expressos. Could you tell me a few handgrinders that work well on expressos?
@@coffeechronicler haha that makes me happy, although I believe eXpresso spells more delicious. Have you come across the Bravito manual grinder? It would be awesome to see your perspective on it in case you have the opportunity to test it.
I’ve been brewing on a v60 daily for over a year now and I’m getting frustrated that I can match the flavor that I’m getting when the same beans are brewed at my coffee shop. I’ve been consistent with my water and my recipe so I’m thinking that my grinder is the issue, I use a Baratza encore. Would a good manual grinder be that much of an upgrade?
I recently went back to using french press but timemore 078 and kingrinder k6 makes them hollow-tasting. Do you have a recommendation for grinders that can do french press well, with nice body rather than tea-like?
There are many grinders that offer more blending of flavors and more texture than those. But I'd say you can make nice French press with those. 078 seems to give a bit more texture at 1300-1400 RPM. I also have a French press video on the channel that can help you with a lot of the causes behind the hollowness you describe.
Been thinking about the topics we cover: Which allowed me characterise why I believe my current Coffee Grinder is quite good at making a sweet (as in Not Bitter) cup a Joe. It’s an own brand grinder from one of Londons big luxury supermarket brands, the Green one. Has plastic teeth! that I established causes zero friction heat, allowing the texture of the freshly crushed bean to develop unhindered into something that’s unbelievable sweet?! To the point where, the more coffee I put in the ”sweeter” it becomes.. I concluded; ordinarily plastics lack of depth would create an inconsistent surface for richer texture to develop on? However acting alongside the scientifically and economically current IKEA coffee bean, that ordinarily has an overly rich flavour with tons of aftertaste, it worked out just fine. 🙏
@@JT-zy2ft Oh I agree! That grinder is BEAUTY! But yes lol, Lagom is SO expensive ha ha! But for sure, between the more affordable but beautiful DF64v or the more expensive P64, I WILL own one of those one of these days. Good job nailing my favs. You nailed it :)
I recently got into coffee and my first grinder is the Comandante C40. I can grind 18 grams at 8 or 9 clicks in a little over a minute and a half. Not a big deal and I'm 75 and not athletic at all.
I now have the DF54 but still use the hand grinder for my Moka Pot. You make it sound way too difficult and strenuous, it's not really. I do really enjoy your channel. Keep it up!
Please don't judge me, but I use an electric screwdriver to drive my hand grinders. It's a cheap screwdriver, it doesn't spin very fast, and I had it already so the incremental cost was null.
In my impression taste-wise it does the same as "hand-powered" grinding, and I don't think that it stresses the mechanism. Maybe it's actually better : by hand you always put some amount of force "sideways", while with a motor it's just torque aligned with the grinder axis.
If you want to cut down the cost and don't want to buy an electric grinder, it's a great option.
Absolutely hand grinders are some of the best values in terms of overall quality to cost.
If it can handle it or not depends on how good the ball bearings are, some grinder manufacturers actually encourage people to use a screwdriver with their grinders (like Kingrinder).
I've tried this and it didn't work for me. The grinder didn't even start to turn at all. 😢
@@TheZukru probably low torque on your drill
Tilting your hand grinder when you grind slows the feed rate. This makes it easier to grind although the grind takes longer. Helps for hand grinding Espresso though!
I think DF54 for espresso and ZP6 for filter is the way. New Varia grinder seems cool though...
Good tip! I'd even say start with DF54 for both for a while and see if you miss anything. It's underrated for filter.
My only problem with these Handgrinders is: at first glance it sounds great. "I can buy an AMAZING grinder for 260€? wow.... " but then I take a deep breath and think: "well what if i get tired of grinding manually all the time? Then I'll end up buying and eletric and when you realized you spen way more than expected." on top of this I'm also on the fence wether i go for an espresso grinder (since i only drink espressos) but the realiy is, i only drink espressos because I dont have any equipment that even allows me to explore other coffee experiences. "What if then i want to try something different? I'll have to change the grinder again.." ... "260€ maybe I should just add extra 50€ and go for an eletric like the Baraza encore esp or any decent one around 300€?"..... These reviews give me the real FOMO
In that case you realize it probably after 2-3 months and sell your hand grinder for 30€ less. They don't lose their value as fast as their electric counterparts. Upside is: if it doesn't come to this, you get yourself a premium hand grinder for just 260€ while your friends upgraded their electric grinders for the 3rd time and are still not close to electric grinder endgame 😅
PS: a hand grinder like the K-Ultra does a great job for espresso, filter, aeropress and pretty much all other brewing methods. Can't say that for my Eureka espresso grinder or most other electric grinders at this price point
I use an electric drive setup for my J-Max. It was painful on my 88 year old shoulders to be able to continue manually. I highly recommend this change to electric power.
My experience with manual grinders matches your thoughts here. For several years I used a Hario Skerton, and last Christmas I got a Timemore C2 Max(I think, they have a lot of similar sounding models!) The C2 Max has been lovely to use, very well made, and it definitely does a better job than the Skerton.
The thing about the baratza encore isn't the burrset. It's the absolutely atrocious collar burr stability. The collar burr is a whole 0.5mm smaller in diameter than the plastic housing that it sits in (I measured mine with calipers). The hopper, grind adjustment mechanism and burr assembly are all locked together when in operation so the burr moving around with 500 microns of play causes the entire upper assembly to move too. Which is why the hopper shakes like it's had too much coffee whenever you grind beans. The fact that the grinder can make great coffee at all is a testament to just how good the burrs are. The Lido grinders are considered some of the best medium roasts/ espresso grinders and they basically use the same burrset only with actual good alignment and stability.
Agree with that. And then would also add that the plastic impellers in a small burr chamber is cause for regrinding/heating when grinding fine.
@@coffeechronicler I agree
If I had to get a super compact minimal setup for both pour over and espresso, it would be a Hario switch, 9barista, and an x-pro. Minimal footprint, super flexible, and sub 1K (with a pouring kettle included) is a difficult combo to beat.
+1 switch and x-pro s have been great so far, cafelat robot arrives tomorrow 😁
I just bought my first grinder: Timemore C3s
Congrats, welcome to the crazy world of coffee.
@@JT-zy2ftIndeed crazy it is😂😢
A month on hows it goin looking at the same one fot aeropress
Can you recommend a good-better-best tier on what grinders would offer the best texture/body (as opposed to clarity)? Hand grinders are fine with me! I’m a beginner, but went to a local roaster and think I tend to like bold medium/medium-dark roasted coffees with a lot of body/texture and lower acidity. I would be fine getting separate grinders for pour over and espresso. Thanks for your video and comment interaction!
From cheap to more expensive: Timemore C3 ESP, 1Zpresso J Ultra, Baratza Sette 30, Eureka Specialita Mignon, Niche Zero. All these are pretty textured. Specialita might be a bit more balanced and sweet than the other ones, but should also be put in this category of enjoyable traditional espresso grinders.
Thanks for the detailed reply! Would you recommend the same grinders for pour over coffee as well? (For example, I’ve used your Aeropress XL recipe and enjoy using the Hario Switch!)
@@Richthe1stest It depends on your brewing style and preferences. If you like medium/dark roasts and stronger coffee, they can work. But for the more light and top-note focused modern coffees, they are not ideal. If you want something for all brewing methods, then one of the handgrinders would be my choice.
@@coffeechronicler Thank you! I do like stronger medium/dark - not a fan of the modern/light tastes. so sounds like just one might work for me. I had looked into the OE Lido OG, but the J Ultra looks hard to beat! Thanks so much for your help!
I got a Timemore S3 this year and I really like it, I don't have an espresso machine so I only use it for my Moka Pot and French Press, works super well. Also you can take it everywhere and you don't need electricity which is great too. Also the price is unreal. 80€ for such a grinder, any electrical one would cost 200+ with the same quality
WITH A QUALITY HANDGRINDER THAT WILL LAST FOR AGES , MY PREFERRED GRINDER THE 1ZPRESSO ZP6, AND A STAINLESS STEEL VERSION OF THE MOKA POT ( ALUMINUM SCARES ME AS REPORTS AND DOCUMENTS STATE ALUMINUM IS NOT HEALTHY) , YOU WILL BE PREPARED FOR WHEN THERE MAY BE A SITUATION THERE IS NO GAS OR ELECTRICITY. THE MOKA CAN BE USED WITH MANY TYPES OF CAMPING STOVES IF NEEDED, UTILIZING MANY TYPES OF FUEL... OF COURSE MY TYPICAL POUR OVER WITH THE HARIO SWITCH AND MY HANDGRINDER ARE VERY COST EFFECTIVE, AND FOR ME, I AM TOTALLY SATISFIED , NOT EVER NEEDING TO SPEND THOUSANDS FOR THE CHASE OF A GOOD CUP OF ESPRESSO.
Dear Asser,
I'm facing a dilemma, and you seem like the perfect person to help me out.
Should my first metal-burr pour-over hand grinder be the Timemore C3s Max or the new S3?
Does the S3 grind noticeably more uniformly compared to the C3s? Because it is quite a bit more expensive.
I see you've tried several Timemore grinders, so you're probably the right person to ask.
As mentioned, it will be used specifically for filter coffee/pour-over, so my Sage electric grinder can be dedicated solely to espresso. I'm getting tired of switching back and forth between espresso and pour-over on the same limited range grinder…
I think that the S3 price is quite a lot for a hand grinder, but if it delivers significantly better results, it would be worth it in the end.
I've been through mostly conical grinders. I've used an orphan espresso pharos for 10 years, pour overs only. It is very different than a flat burr high speed (ek43), i've side by sided it many times. Most conical grinders lack clarity as you mention. I've used a capresso, sette and encore. The newer variable speed, conical or flat seems to be the game changer. I've just started using a df83v just on 500 rpm so far. Very different. With espresso burrs. Espresso out of that vs the sette is quite different too. I'm still just a beginner with flat burrs, i recommend you give a flat burr something a try. And variable speed. Did i mention anything is quieter than a sette (super loud annoying pitch). Hand grinding is very fast with the pharos but the profile isn't what i'm into at the moment.
I bought my first Monolith Flat (which still runs like a pretty modern grinder) in '17 while both the LM and SW are significantly better than the mythos burrs, how far have we really come? Prebreakers already existed with the Versalab for example for years.
haha watched this after getting me a 064s. totally love it so far especially after trying rpm below 1000.
Solid choice!
I use the DF 64 second Gen and I have no regrets.
Still using my JMax. It is a bit of a workout. I own the Timemore 78S. But despite having put 6+ kilos of beans through it, the espresso that I get from it is far from satisfactory. I hope that one day I will get great espresso from it.
Still convinced to get myself the DF54. Ill get to espresso and refine my first love, the old nice moka. And maybe, start a nice pourover with a clever dripper. DF64 is just too expensive
Do you or have you used the Sage Grinder Pro at all? I’ve got one and thinking about getting a DF54, is it worth it?!
Dont know, the smart aspect of the sage seems kinda cool with the great hopper but keep coffee on the light seem bad for its freshness. Personally i do prefer single dosing, since i take two cup max at home and i feel lazy for hand grinding xd
If you already have a miller to connect to your hand grinder you can also use it to grind for espresso
I think that demanding coffee grinders are important if you drink light roasted coffee or espresso. If you drink medium to dark roasted coffee then probably decent hand grinder will be enough. I’m struggling with brewing light roasted coffee because of acidity which can be too harsh. To smooth acidity you either have to use probably flat burr grinders or to buy special coffee beans which don’t give sharp acidity. But I generally prefer roast which is between medium and dark. The profile which I get is rather standard and boring ( similar) because in that roast range beans taste similar. Though despite that it is not easy to get coffee beans which you will enjoy. There is often lack of balance.
Asser Long time listener. Always appreciate your work. I am retiring my Sette 270 that I modded to single dosing for espresso only. Always enjoyed the work flow, low retention, and shots. Brutally loud motor. Look for a conical single dosing electric grinder for light-medium, and medium washed coffee roasts for espresso. Usually doing ristretto capuccinios and 2:1 flat whites in the am. Have an Ode 2 for filter. Hard to find a conical at a price point less than $1,000 and the Niche Zero seems to come out as the best conical option for low retention, quieter motor, easy cleaning, and efficient workflow. Am I missing something? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. Have you considered one of the new heptagonal conical grinders that follow the low rpm/glorified handgrinder design? Both the Sniper from MWH-3Bomber and the Femobooks I have tried (A68/A5) make good espresso and are less noisy/overall more pleasant than the Sette family.
Thanks for the video. I always find your content quite useful, and based on your insights, I'm on the verge of buying a DF54, DF64, or Timemore 064s (too many good options right now, but the DF54 is in the lead).
I currently own a J-Max and I'm curious about how it compares for pourover. Do you think it ranks equal, worse, or better than a Timemore C2/C3 or a 1Zpresso X-Ultra? After getting the DF54, I'm wondering if I should sell the J-Max and get something more focused on pourover like the C3, or if I should keep it since the cup quality might be similar.
I like to have two grinders on hand. I mainly drink light roast for pourover but enjoy everything from light to dark in espresso.
J Max and DF54 are better for pour over than C2 and C3. The DF54 is quite capable, so you'd probably need to go up to a K-Ultra or ZP6 to get anything noticeable better/different.
Nice video. I wanted to know if there are any significant differences between the Timemore C1 and C2 grinder and if the grinding settings are the same? Because I'm looking for how many clicks to set my C1 to but I only find up to C2. And is it worth upgrading to C3 from C1?
A welcome overview in grinders. I have a Baratza Virtuoso which has been good for aeropresd. I need an espresso dedicated electric grinder on a budget.
How true about older grinds. I used to own Rancillio Silvia and Rocky. That Rocky was a brick but difficult dialing in for espresso. A DF54 might be right
I have a Baratza Encore ESP for about an year and a little rock mixed with the beans messed its burrs up, which made me consider upgrade it (instead of getting a new burr set). 95% of the coffee I drink at home is Espresso and the budget would be around 500€. Any sugestions? I've been considering the Eureka Oro Single dose, DF64, and a bit overbudget the Timemore Sculptor... but any suggestion is aprecitated.
Outstanding show as I have come to know from your excellent work. Carry on, amigo.
Which burr set would you recommend for an all around Filter coffee grinder in the DF83 V2?
Is characteristic of grinder real? Especially the high end hand grinder. Is it just a less fine dust = more clarity?
thanks for this.. 👍🙏 .looks like we do need 1-2 grinders especially if one likes to drink across a larger spectrum: light-medium/dark roasts.(sorry i'm too new to understand if i prefer washed, natural, anaerobic or honey processed etc)..i have a 078 (from the kickstarter, upgraded from breville pro) as I'm experimenting with lighter roasts but I also love medium (and occasional med-dark roasts with cream)..so might compliment my 078 with a K Ultra, Q2 or Timemore S3...good combo in your opinion?
Yes, K Ultra+078 would be a great combo, as you also get espresso + medium/dark roasts, and they are a different enough for light roasts to give you two contrasting cups.
You don't "need" 2 grinders necessarily. But it's a bit like most serious photographers also have a few different lenses to use for their cameras to capture the best image :)
@@coffeechronicler thanks....for now i'm only into filter/aeropress, frenchpress, pourover. ..what of the Timemore S3 to compliment the 078, or is the cup from the K Ultra still the better bet?.
@@choppersplace The S3 flavor profile has a lot of things in common with the 078, so not the best contrast. And it also struggles with espresso. Really nice grinder, but not the ideal in your scenario.
@@coffeechronicler many thanks for your helpful imput! continued success with your website and youtube channels
Great video!
I’m looking to replace my 270wi, for espresso grinding, and I’m soooo confused by all the options that are everywhere.
I do not drink specialty, and I prefer lattes and cortados (milk drinks)
What would you recommend to buy as a dane looking for a white grinder, that primarely drink milk-based espresso-drinks, and have a budget of max 4000DKK
Mhw 3bomber blade r3? We want that review!
I totally agree. Price and materials are very good
If you're in the states you can get a Yukaofes U Pro S grinder off the fleabays for a heavy discount. It has the same burrset as the R3 and I'm 99.9% sure the grinder itself is made by the same factory as the high end timemore grinders.
@@chahahc it does look like it has the same burr set but it has bottom adjustment
I know you said future proof, but I would hope you know and I believe you do about the warranties and maybe service ratings or what can go wrong, thank you.
Great stuff as always, I like how nuanced your takes are. I currently own a 1zpresso JX pro, and I am thinking about upgrading to a a Ode Gen 2, ZP6 or a K ultra for pour overs. I mostly drink light roasted coffees. Any suggestions?
get Zp6 for pourover
Which one do you recommend using for drip coffee, Grinder Timemore C3 or ZP6 ?
Hi, loved the Vid, thanks this is super helpful.
I am keen on a La Pavoni Evo machine for home and I have been completly bamboozled by all the options in the market, thank you for this video!
I think you mentioned the Single Dose DF54 which looks like a good option for me, making 3-4 coffees at home a day. (Mainly flat whites as I'm Australian, of course! ;) )
I'd love to know if this is a pairing you would make or would you suggest an alternate option, please?
Thank you!
😁☕
Thanks! I'd probably consider the Lelit Mara X V2 or Profitec 400 instead of La Pavoni (I have a Mara X review coming soon btw). DF54 would be good for your purpose.
@@coffeechronicler You legend, thank you I will have a look! Thank You!!! ❤ ☕
Awesome video, I have a new breville barista express and want a better grinder but not sure if i must get DF64 Gen 2 or eureka specialita/Eureka mignon grinder, could you please advise me?
@coffeechronicler I am on the way for my first home set up. I drink only pure espresso and i am thinking to get the Mazzer Philos. I know is expensive but i think it's better to cry once. I don't know if i like light roast and in my region everyone has commercial coffee, so i can't taste them. I don't know which burrs to get. I would appreciate your opinion. It's really hard if you are starting this journey to choose equipment.
Philos is still a bit new, so I haven't played around with it yet. If you're new to coffee and plan on drinking espresso only, my guess is you'll feel a lot home with at least medium-dark roasts. I'd suggest a Eureka Mignon Specialita if you plan on hopper-based, a DF54 if you're going to single dose. Or a Baratza Sette if you want something that works with either dosing method.
Currently got the Sage Grinder Pro, do you think the DF54 is a worthy upgrade for your milk based drinks - fw, cap and latte etc? Thanks
I have a Eureka Mignon Facile Espresso Grinder 50mm it works well, I have upgraded from a Breville Barita Pro to a Lelit Mara X, do you think going to a DF64 with SSP burrs would be much of an upgrade, thanks for any help :)
Really depends on what coffee you’re using for espresso. If you prefer traditional style espresso or primarily just drink milk beverages then I’d say no. But if you’re into more light roasts and drink primarily espresso than yes.
@@JT-zy2ft Agree with this ⬆
@@JT-zy2ft Thank you, I forgot to tell what drinks I make, I like a Latte with 4oz milk and 10ml of sweetener 19g in 50g out, I do use some med-lite roasts but Like Med to some Med-dark not into the fruity coffee, but again I've not try very many so who knows, lol :)
@@coffeechronicler Thanks for reply. thinking about it my Eureka is all I need, not fast but have put Bellow single dose, incline, and a Large dial for setting grind, love your channel :)
How does the DF54 hand grinder, compare to the 1Zspresso J-Max?
for pour-over light roast with small counter space and 700ml coffee, hand grinder will be the best option? The DF54 nice, more of espresso grinder
You need a hand grinder with pretty big capacity - probably around 44-45 g to brew 700 ml. Mainly Lido-series are this big. DF54 is surprisingly good for filter coffee.
@@coffeechronicler I am happy to do 2 grinds in hand grinder, DF54 can hold 50g I guess. DF54 similar price here to K-Ultra in SEA. Thank you
Can’t believe you are under 100k subs yet!
Hello, between a timemore s3, a 1zpresso x-ultra or a j-ultra, which one do you recommend for versatile use? that gives me good results and durability.
How would you compare the grind quality of a k-ultra to a DF64 or niche zero?
This is such a great and informative video
What flavours does the 1zpresso Q2s highlight? Is it the more brighter and acidic flavours?
Yes, that's pretty accurate. A bit thinner and sharper. But can still be great.
@@coffeechroniclerThank you for your response. Highly appreciated. If I wanted to balance out these flavours accentuated by the Q2s, should I brew longer and or grind finer [medium roast , medium to dark roasts, Aeropress, James Hoffmann method] ?
Oh sorry. I thought you meant espresso. Q2 is excellent for regular filter coffee, you don't have to anything special to make it tasty balanced.
@@coffeechronicler Thank you 👌
Great video! I would love to hear your recommendations for espresso grinder for someone who want something between DF64 and option o p 64? Not prosumer yet, but already picky :)
Thanks! I have a video about precisely that grinder coming out very soon :) Stay tuned the next couple of weeks.
Thanks this is super helpful! I'm looking to upgrade my Timemore c2 to more mid range grinder (for pour over only). I'm wandering if a hand grinder (eg zp6) would be better to contrast it with or a flat burr, which currently means electric (like df54)? I originally thought hand grinder would always be better value than electric but now there are flat burrs that seem to be good for pour over it's not so clear to me... thanks so much for all your content!
Both are good grinders which will produce good coffee. Really depends on how much you want to get into coffee. In terms of quality to cost zp6 is the better value.
I got the timemore c3. What click grond setting for pour over would you recommend for a good cooffee?. I drink meduim dark coffee
Have you (or anyone else) ever done a blind taste test where you differentiate only between the heat of the grinder?
I'm not aware of a test like that. However, heat generation is a bigger concern for commercial applications than home use, so don't think most normal people need to worry too much about it.
Do you have problem with your c2/c3 grinders outer burrs shifting to one side? Mine did and it made the gaps between the burrs uneven.
what do you think about hibrew g5?
I'm the opposite: I like medium/dark espresso and find the beans are soft, so hand grinding is fine (have a JX Pro). Plus I have a flair so I never need more than 17g or so. But for filter or French press, I like light roast and find the beans much more brittle and need more 'grunt'. Plus I'm often making larger brews, so grinding 25 to 30 grams. So I got a Timemore 64 and I love it. Nothing is easier on the brain in the morning than French press and electric grinder 😂
Would there be a sub €200 electrical grinder for filter coffee that's recommendable?
Which one is better for pour over, Timemore C2/C3 or S3?
S3 is quite a bit better than the two other ones
Which hand grinder would you recommend for brewing dark roasts in a Moka Pot?
Timemore C2 would be good for that
@@coffeechronicler Thank you for the recommendation.
I find the Mazzer Philos quite interesting I must say
Hi. All I do is pour over. Mainly V60. Is the Fellow Ode Gen 2 a good choice or would the DF54 or DF64 be a better choice? I mainly do light or light/medium roasts. I will never do espresso at home. I have a Knock Feld 2 and a Helor 101 but I am not exactly young and I am tired of hand grinding every single day.
Ode Gen 2 sounds like the right choice!
@@coffeechronicler Thanks!
@coffeechronicler How do you rate the quality of the Sage/Breville Dual Boiler (Behind you) for espresso quality with a great grinder like the Eureka Specialita? Do you think the Dual Boiler is better then heat exchange ones? Also do you think the JX Pro/Ultra manual grinder can fine grind coffee for espresso better than say the eureka specialita? If not, which level of electric grinder do you think it stops at?
The Dual Boiler has great temperature stability and is better than most HX in that sense. But a good HX like Lelit Mara X can do a similar job.
1Zpresso Jx/Ultra are both fine for espresso, but my personal preference would lean to Eureka most of the time.
If you had say 1000 - 1200 euro.... which single dose grinder would you choose and why? :D
I am looking for a grinder that has a glass top not plastic.
Have you tried the Pietro with the brew burrs?
Yes. Liked the coffee, absolutely not the UX.
Which one would you recommend, the Eureka Mignon Manuale or the DF54?
Haven't tried Manuale, but own several other Mignon grinders so based on that I'd generally recommend the DF54. The main exception to that would be if you ONLY drink espresso, and you love a sweet, textured classic shot.
@@coffeechronicler thanks for your input! I mainly drink espresso, guess that will put the manuale over the DF?
@@asdfdsa604 Not necessarily, but it makes the decision a bit harder :) If you want to be single dosing and be in that more modern espresso/coffee category then I'll still lean towards DF54. But if you plan to do hopper-based and more traditional blends, then Eureka.
@@coffeechronicler I see, then all things considered do you think the DF64 gen 2 will be a better choice overall? I do love a clean and strong cup of espresso, and occasionally some pourovers, so the df64 may be a more futureproof option?
I recently got the X-Pro, and almost every time i use it a bean or two will get stuck. After grinding all the beans, it seems like i need to knock and and shake it a little bit and keep grinding for another 10-20 seconds to make sure everything went through. This never happened with my old Aergrind.
Anybody else experience this? It does seem like it has gotten a little better with use.
This also happens to me with the x-pro, with certain beans. Also extra round beans will sometimes roll around on the burr and not catch for the initial crack, so I’ll have to crank back and forth until it grabs.
@@fnordPrefect Yeah once I got so fed up with one, I pulled it out, cracked it on the table, and dropped it back in.
But you didn't mention which hand grinders are most ideal for expressos.. could you answer that for me?
I have a ZP6 and a timemore c3 but they don't seem to go well on expressos.
Could you tell me a few handgrinders that work well on expressos?
Currently, I think the J Ultra is the best one around... for both for eXpresso and espresso ;)
@@coffeechronicler haha that makes me happy, although I believe eXpresso spells more delicious.
Have you come across the Bravito manual grinder?
It would be awesome to see your perspective on it in case you have the opportunity to test it.
I’ve been brewing on a v60 daily for over a year now and I’m getting frustrated that I can match the flavor that I’m getting when the same beans are brewed at my coffee shop. I’ve been consistent with my water and my recipe so I’m thinking that my grinder is the issue, I use a Baratza encore. Would a good manual grinder be that much of an upgrade?
Yes, big upgrade!
@@coffeechronicler Good to know, your content will be helpful in helping me make a decision. I'm thinking the ZPresso K-Ultra over the Comandante
I recently went back to using french press but timemore 078 and kingrinder k6 makes them hollow-tasting. Do you have a recommendation for grinders that can do french press well, with nice body rather than tea-like?
There are many grinders that offer more blending of flavors and more texture than those. But I'd say you can make nice French press with those. 078 seems to give a bit more texture at 1300-1400 RPM. I also have a French press video on the channel that can help you with a lot of the causes behind the hollowness you describe.
@@coffeechronicler thank you, will check out the video!
Main thing I learned from my grinder is:
Boy I need an electric grinder! 😅
Been thinking about the topics we cover:
Which allowed me characterise why I believe my current Coffee Grinder is quite good at making a sweet (as in Not Bitter) cup a Joe.
It’s an own brand grinder from one of Londons big luxury supermarket brands, the Green one.
Has plastic teeth! that I established causes zero friction heat, allowing the texture of the freshly crushed bean to develop unhindered into something that’s unbelievable sweet?! To the point where, the more coffee I put in the ”sweeter” it becomes..
I concluded; ordinarily plastics lack of depth would create an inconsistent surface for richer texture to develop on? However acting alongside the scientifically and economically current IKEA coffee bean, that ordinarily has an overly rich flavour with tons of aftertaste, it worked out just fine.
🙏
Yeah no...I'm done with doing hand grading when I want a double shot...takes too long
Is it just me? I think the DF64V is the most BEAUTIFUL grinder out there right now.
The 54 looks amazing, but the 64V is just 🤌🏽☕️
Take a look at the lagom p64. Very similar style but much cleaner (and a lot more expensive).
@@JT-zy2ft Oh I agree! That grinder is BEAUTY! But yes lol, Lagom is SO expensive ha ha! But for sure, between the more affordable but beautiful DF64v or the more expensive P64, I WILL own one of those one of these days.
Good job nailing my favs. You nailed it :)