DF64V owner here. I love how small and quiet it is. Since buying it half a year ago, I've had it stall with light roasts at 600-700 RPM, and had to tighten the screw on the grind setting indicator ring with the included hex key. At least it's easy to open up and fix. No complaints about the grind quality, and Lance's video on slow dosing conveniently not only improves that but also eliminated any stalling issues. Can recommend this grinder for anyone wanting a small and quiet all-rounder for espresso and filter, but if I were buying one now I might save money and get the Gen 2, which wasn't out yet when I bought the V.
Lance- thanks for the great vid as always. I have the DF64V and personally love how the feed shoot comes apart in two pieces as it allows be to very easily clean everything out with a brush. I appreciate how easy they made doing that.
078 non-S owner here, really nice to hear what you had to say about this one specifically. And did not expect the burrs to be considered your top three! So glad I managed to grab one.
64V owner here. Love it and so glad I’m in the land of chill pill and enjoying the cup quality over my previously owned Eureka Mignon. If you have or are considering anything in this lineup, just get what you like. This is like an all star lineup here.
Yes, but which has the stock burrs best for espresso? I'm stuck between the DF64V, Timemore 64S and the Gevi...I dont want to go past $500...Selling the Eureka 54mm burr grinder as I really dislike the adjustment knob. I like what I can get out of it but with many calibration shots(every time I switch beans, as I like trying different coffees), yet dont know what I maybe missing...LOL
Thanks so much for this video. I ordered a DF64V yesterday then saw you were posting this today. Lost a little sleep but you confirmed that I should enjoy my choice and not worry about every little upgrade and new grinder. Whew….
Great video! That ending is exactly what I was looking for! I love my Sculptor and never had any intention to get rid of it but I was just wondering how it stacks up against EVERY grinder, including Weber's expensive art pieces. I expected the outcome but glad to be confirmed! Timemore has made the best bang for the buck grinder by far!
quick thing on the warranty - they don't void it if you swap the burrs yourself, but rather will only do so if the issue is causing by incorrectly having installed the burr
I appreciate the message you concluded on; it’s one many home enthusiasts need to hear. Focus should be on performance, cup quality, and relative value for money and availability; the last of which seems to be mostly overlooked by reviewers, including yourself. Why even mention the Zerno in this video when the grinder isn’t even available for purchase?
Yep, love it. Had the 078s since Sep 23. Frankly it has been transformative, it's consistent, I can rely on it to produce what I intend and the flavours I'm getting from lots of different beans in most cases do represent the roasters intent. Great grinder.
I got a DF64V while waiting for the 078s to ship because my previous grinder had died. Was really looking forward to the 078s but the reality is that it's workflow just doesn't work at all for me. For example, the bean hopper on the 078s is small and awkward, forcing you to fiddle with the little cover to get it in place after dosing your beans in order to prevent popcorning. There is no such issue with the DF64V. More importantly, it was much harder to read the 078s' grind setting and make adjustments to it compared to the DF64V's easy to use and read dial. The DF64V's dial can be read by just by looking strait down at it, while it was necessary for me to stoop to the level of the 078s' dial and view it strait on in order to accurately see the setting. By comparison, the Zerno and DF83V have better designed grind adjustment dials for grinders with vertical burrs because they can be read without stooping. The following may be specific to my kitchen, but my under-the-cupboards lights illuminate the DF64V's grind adjustment dial perfectly but they backlit the 078s' dial, making it necessary for me to turn that grinder towards another light source or use my phone's light in order to read it accurately on gloomy mornings. My intention with these grinders was try out variable speed grinding. Even if this turns out to be not a useful thing, I bought both grinders intending to give it a go. The DF64V's grid speed dial is trivially easy to adjust, enjoyable even, while the 078s requires pulling the grinder out, turning it around and again, stooping down to adjust the setting. The 078s' grind speed adjustment dial feels like a checkbox item for marketing, and not anything that any thought was put into. Regarding the grinds chutes on these grinders, I find the DF64V's far easier to use and clean. I could never tell what might be left in the 078s' chute. The twisty knocker thingy on the 078s might be fun to use but it doesn't give me any confidence that the chute is actually clean because, unlike the DF64V's, it's not possible see into it. So I disagree with the objections to the DF64V's chute, it's better than the 078s' in every way. Accessing the burrs on the 078s is a long, painful process that requires tools and that resulted in bloodied knuckles and a lot of frustration, while the DF64V is a tool-less, quick and trivially simple process. I used both grinders side-by-side for about a month and my appreciation for the DF64V only grew. The 078s is simply not as well designed as the DF64V. I found myself no longer interested in using the 078s, so I ended up selling it.
I only just upgraded my grinder to the DF64 Gen 2 with the SSP sweet lab burrs. Coming from a cheap and dirty ~50 buck grinder that I've been frustrated with for the past years, I am basically in heaven right now. For me, the bellows aren't an issue at all - but then I don't seem to be experiencing that much retention in the first place (I don't even use a spritz of water)
Yo I got the EXACT same setup as you! The grinder is great, no retention, and so far its grinding everything greatly except for this ultra light roast I got from my local roaster (but I'm trying to see if I can fix it by aligning the burrs some more)
The new mazzer seems like a great option to add into this arsenal. On the more expensive side but the build quality you get for it is probably going to be worth it especially after the first 10 years of use.
@17:35, this is exactly why I don't mind static on my DF64 gen1. Static tends to attract chaff more than coffee. The problem is RDT gets rid of most of the static. You love one thing and hate another :) In any case, this DF64 is here to stay for a long time.
I have a DF83V and pretty much agree with what Lance said here. I won't comment on cup quality because I'm not qualified, but here's my experience with using the thing: Yes, it will stall on low RPMs at fine grind sizes. It seems like the low RPM is meant for filter coffee. That said feed rate seems to make the biggest difference. I dumped 100g of light roast in at once at a fine grind size and still stalled at a higher RPM but my normal 20g dose I can grind for espresso just fine at 300 without drip feeding beans into the thing. I suspect this is an auger design issue and I'm considering making my own once I feel like I understand the problem to see if I can slow that feed down. When I have stalled it I have not had to remove the burr carrier. Increasing the RPM helps, which can be done while it's not running. I have been able to coarsen the grind setting just by turning the dial- it will feel jammed at first but that's just because the beans are pushing on the burr and the burr is pushing on the screw. Once you move it a bit it will come free. The adjustment knob just rests on the burr carrier and has some grease in there. It could use a thrust bearing or something like that and that's another thing I am considering adding. Once you get it moving you can adjust pretty coarse and try again, this worked for me even with the previously mentioned 100g stuck in there. Note that the dosing cup will not hold 100g, more like 30, so grind into something else if you try this. Removing the burr carrier and reinstalling it it does not seem to hold the zero, but it's very easy to adjust so I would suggest resetting it any time you take the grinder apart. At 1600 RPM it grinds fast, maybe too fast. It shot the grounds into the dosing cup with such force that they kind of bounced out. This was with no RDT and a light roast. I have heard conflicting reports on the less fines at low RPM statement, but I don't actually care that much about variable RPM. I have been sticking with 800 or 1000 and not messing with it too much yet. Tapping the bellows instead of really pushing definitely works best. The declumper at the exit chute seems to be the most likely place for things to stick. I have seen some buildup on the magnetic exit chute. Some people have talked about an offgassing smell. Mine (black) smells if I take a whiff but doesn't give off a strong oder, though I was running a fan past it at one point and that did seem to make things smell more. Some report a very strong smell, some don't. Seems to go away eventually, not sure if it's just on the black one. Does not seem to impact the taste of the coffee.
I've had a DF83 for over a year. It can make great coffee, but it's also helped me understand I want out of a grinder. 80mm blind sweet lab burrs, an efficient auger and prebreaker, vertical burrs, and a deionizer. Hopefully such a grinder is released soon and doesn't cost $3K lol. Great video!
@@themessenger2356 That all depends on what you're looking for. Do you typically prefer conical or flat burrs, single dosing vs grind by time vs grind by weight, do you care about ground retention, what's your preferred workflow, acceptable noise level, etc. The top end of grinders in that price range tend to be from Timemore, DF, Eureka, and Baratza. Personally, I'd check out the Timemore Sculptor (either size), DF83V (or 64 gen2 if you want to try different burrs without breaking the bank), and the Eureka Oro Mignon XL depending on what features you want.
@@sonorguy1 I have a 54/55mm Eureka, and the adjustment knob sucks. Lots of test shots between beans, so its hard to be consistent. looking at DF64gen2 or V or Timemore 64s(maybe 78, but I want to stay as much around $500) or the Gevi...Hard to select as I dont want to right away buy burrs, and drink 98% espresso. In video he talks good things about pour over, not espresso, so Im a bit left scratching my head. lol.
I purchased the df83v because I was in the market for a flat burr grinder. I have a Niche Zero as well currently although I haven’t touched it since the df83v came in. Obviously says I have been very happy with it and I’ve had it for 3 weeks now. Luckily I haven’t had it stall since the very first day. I have SSP HU burrs on it and I’ve gone down to 500 rpm without issue.
I’ve had mine stall, but only with the lab sweet burrs from SSP. I have mitigated it by not just doing a full dump with a hot start but a close to full dump. It all goes in within 2 to 3 seconds instead of just flat out zero on dumping.
Hi, I’m just a curious nerd 🤓😉. When you reduce the speed, would that also reduce the power? At higher speeds the inertia is obviously higher so even with the same power it would still be less likely to stall at higher speeds.
Finally got my Kickstarter 078 after almost a year of waiting. A few minor niggles about the workflow (popcorning / beans stuck in the hopper when using RDT), but oh man the cups I've had with it are amazing. Glad I stayed patient, and at the $500 opening day KS price, it's just insane value.
I’m at the point where the only reason I want a new grinder is that I’ve started doing espresso a lot more and I have a non-ESP Encore so I’m just saving up for an all-around grinder (and trying my luck on your giveaways 😅). For someone like me, who wants an upgrade for that reason, and is looking for something in this price range, this was a hugely helpful video.
Thanks for the video Lance :) i choose to stay manual because of you and bought the Pietro... I love it even if i have to do a workout every morning :D
I sidegraded. Went from a Fellow Ode with SSP MP burrs to a Timemore 078. Partly for a change and partly due to some astringency on certain coffees on the Ode. We shall see how the 078 goes.
@@LanceHedrickThanks Lance. I have high hopes for that. also to clarify I meant sidegrade pricewise - the kickstarter 078 was around the same price as the Ode with the SSPs.
I have the DF64 Gen 2 on order ($400). Apparently so does everyone else, because I won’t see it for at least another month. It’s replacing my old OXO grinder that I’ve been using for the past few years.
i really like your videos, they are always very educational. one thing i have noticed in the last few videos, is that the sound (you talking) sometimes stops very rapidly, which is irritating especially with headphones. sometimes the sound cuts while you are breathing in or out as well. and for me, i dont feel like there is a consistency when music plays and when not. some chill and quiet background music would very much soften these 'hard cuts'. other than that, love your content lance!
Honestly, given my current financial situation and my coffee obsession - I'm super happy with my Chestnut X & 078s, I never understood the 'need' to buy a new grinder every-single-time a new one comes out... I mean like WTF?! :D
I can brew really good coffee at home, so I’m not looking to buy anything new. I just like to hear you talk about coffee stuff 🤷🏽♂️ And the singing I like that as well ✌🏽
I am a weird person, never actually considered a electric grinder w/ filter burrs for filter coffee, I´m using a C40Mk4 w/ RX35 for the 2nd year now. I think (as Lance said) it isn´t about the NEED, but more likely about WANT bc of a thousand Instagram Influencer coffee accounts are showcasing these grinders.
Lance, really appreciate this video as I'm looking to upgrade from a SGP. What would you recommend between the Timemore 064/064s and DF64 if I want filter + espresso?
It doesn’t make any sense that a lower RPM would generate more heat than a higher RPM. For example, rub your hand slowly across some carpet, and then rub your hand rapidly across the same carpet. That’s where the term rug burn comes from. 🔥 Basic principle of physics.
Just sold my 078 because I found to get superior cups to my taste with Pietro pro brewing.. cleaner and less prone to bitterness. Workflow is worse though😁
Curious how much coffee you put through the 078 before selling? I had bitterness on finer settings for the first kilo or so but have been able to go finer and finer since without any bitterness. I did find that I needed to reduce agitation in my technique to help as well.
@@christophersmith8945 interesting, had mine since December so definitely put some kilos through and tried various grind settings. Maybe it’s just me preferring the even cleaner brews. Also thought about alignment issues, but that’s hard to check and apparently doesn’t seem to be a big issue with 078
@@fabilemusic9992 definitely interesting! guess it goes to show that everyone's tastes and perceptions are different. good news is you found something that works for you!
I really appreciate your sentiment of sticking with what works for you and not worrying about the latest and greatest. But, it helps me in a different way. I am getting my first espresso equipment. Your scientific approach to things has helped me geek out, but also made me feel unable to make a decision. I have settled on a Robot, but couldn't decide on how big to go with a grinder. I decided on a DF64 gen 2 today. I'm sure these will be a great place to start and grow my taste. Maybe a Zerno and La Marzocco is in my future. But I think I'll be happy for a while.
I have the Wilfa Uniform because it was on sale and I am happy (filter only). I still watch these videos and I still feel happy about my purchase. Thank you for making them.
Starseeker, the maker of SD40 and iTop 64, actually came out with a 74mm vertical blind burr grinder at the end of last year. Too bad it's not marketed outside of China as of now, as I think it might prove to be a viable option alongside the 078s and the DF83v.
Hey, nice videos! I saw in past video of yours (Delta Q Ride Review) that you live in Portugal. I'm starting to love the expresso making flow and I find very hard to find speciality coffee, do you have store that you recommend?
"Beans Before Machines" - I think it makes really good sense... But what would you say to those who argue that you need a quite capable espresso machine (besides a good grinder) with options to pre-infuse well and in advanced ways and perhaps even flow profile to extract really light roasted (and possibly also dense high altitude) beans for espresso. It seems some guys (especially one guy) on the HomeBarista forum claims that. And it sounds reasonable too 🤔
Hey Lance, would it be possible that you do a bit of a walkthrough about coffee beans this time? I'd like to have a better appreciation with what roasters put on the labels. The most consistent ones I see are: - Roast level (light, med, dark) - masl (meters above sea level?) - Procssing type ( Washed, Natural, Honey) and how do I react to what I see in these lables?? You be the date guru I be the cluelss schmuck -- teach me what my first moves should be when I meet these details, three.
Looking at saving up for a Profitec 600. I’m looking at grinders and I go back and forth. I like single dose grinders with hopes of zero retention. Would you buy df64, timemore 064s, or spend more on a grinder like a eureka mingnon oro single dose, or some something completely different?
I am considering a new grinder. I love the Mahlkonig E65S, but the Anfim Pratica is much cheaper and almost the same thing. Any recommendations as the Pratica is about $1000 cheaper. This will be for home use and I will need the short hopper for either one of these.
I haven't gotten my Timemore 078s yet, but the problem I'm hearing is that there's enough retention in the knocker that it's not just fines and chaff leftover, ideally if it was just a little chaff and fines you can knock it out separately, and keep them out of your drink for a potentially higher quality brew! But if it's over a gram of fines, chaff mixed with coffee grounds, it seems like a waste and doesn't seem like it's doing its job as a single dose, low retention coffee grinder ! Chaff and fines shouldn't weigh anywhere near 1g (and there shouldn't be that much of it ideally). But I'll see how mine performs when I get it.
I received my 78S a few weeks ago and have noticed what you’re saying. I’m hoping there’s a break in period. I do love the machine. I also notice the beans need to be helped into the grind chamber after a first go.
@@BRogoMU a lot of seasoning is supposed to benefit those burrs. I'm still waiting for mine! If you're doing RDT that tends to make beans stick to everything and one reason why I hate RDT!
Hey Lance, I got the 078 for filter based on your recommendation. It's excellent but without rdt the static has been awful. I started using just one spritz of rdt and that solved the static issue but a lot less is in the fines catcher now. What's your process on 078? Are you still against rdt for it?
Lance a couple years ago now,I think, you recommend the urbanic 070 for under $200.. Is that still the best flat bur grinder? I use the flair 58 to pull espresso shots. Thank you
Yeah, the part about the right beans are a big thing I think. I drink decaf coffee and I would love to drink good lightly roasted coffee, but I only found medium to dark roasted coffee (in Zürich). To the point that commercial ones were lighter on the roast than the specialty ones! Idk what the reason might be but it was kind of funny to see that so far: The cheaperst one was the tastiest and lightest of the bunch. Like WTF!? Tho I really enjoyed the darker ones aswell, at least from one roastery. ^^ (I am very suceptible to caffeine to the point that even too much decaf coffee can make me all shakey...)
Just bought a 83v wish me luck. Bang for the buck. almost went 64v. either way. all of these look good. Except the gevi seems gone for good. Timemore might get ssp to make burrs for it, maybe they say. Ode might be a good filter one too
At this point I genuinely only want to get myself an 1Zpresso ZP6 because I've got nothing that's specific for filter coffee. That being said, I'm not opposed to getting one of these grinders in a Patreon competition, if ya know what I mean 😉
Correction: I think Gevi walked back on the warrenty thing (at least for backers) so that you still be covered if signs of changing burrs is present. The only thing that they wont cover is if damage is caused by misaligment or whatever.
i went with the DF64V because it was an upgraded version of the regular df64 before the gen 2 came out. Im hoping lance does a video in a few months and says "wow, variable rpm is the best thing since sliced bread"
Thanks for the great advice and you’re so right about who has the biggest best grinder! 😂 Is there a preference for an espresso and filter grinder in that lineup?
I have a df64gen2 on order in which I plan to convert to my dedicated filter brew grinder with some brew burrs. And maybe have a good gbw grinder for espresso. The Allground sense looks like a really good option right now but not much reviews out.
Hi Lance, Do you think you could make a short/reel/post discussing the sounds of these grinders? I have to grind in the early morning and the most important factor after cup quality is noise level and quality. I know some grinders are louder than others but have a less jarring noise and some may be quieter but more intrusive sounding. The ideal test IMO would be to run each grinder at an espresso setting and a brew setting. Then measure the dBs either just outside of your studios door or inside a thick cardboard box. Separately, subjectively rate the sounds next to the grinder and in the adjacent room/your head in the cardboard box. This all sounds(hehe) a bit excessive and goofy but that means you are the perfect guy to take it on. BTW its my theory that cones are quieter than flats in general. And I think that the less fines a burr produces the higher pitch the sound is ( when the grinder is held the same )
I love the Timemore S2C burrs! Going from the Timemore C2 to C3, oh, my gosh, it's SO much easier to grind with. It's a little bit slower as a cost, but that is worth the reduced wrist strain.
I have a C3 too, yes grinding is pretty easy. But i think the quality in the cup is Not that gread. I tried it for Espresso and would Rank the result a 3.5/10 than i Did another Espresso this time with a Eureka Atom 75 Rest was the Same and it was more 8-9/10. And i Did Not get satisfieing results with the C3 for Filter aswell. There the Fellow Ode gen 1 does a way better Job. But for Aeropress Coffee at Work the C3 is okay, but for pour over or Espresso i dont Like the taste. For the Aeropress it does an okay Job but i Did Not try Aeropress Coffee with the ode at the Moment.
@@Neilz911 I usually use my C3 for Aeropress brews at work. And I grind quite coarsely, as well. So I guess I haven't really pushed the envelope with it.
@@CaveyMoth Same with me and my C3. And it is a cheap grinder compared to the others and it is portable, i think the C3 is an okay package but If you Invest more you will have more fun...
I bought a DF83 v2 and have been disappointed with the consistency from run to run. I use it for filter and the zero point changes while I’m grinding 70g. The. Trying to readjust the zero point to be back to my original location. Trying to grind espresso after has a very course grind. Tighten it run it, zero point changes again, and keep tightening over an hour. It’s crazy.
I have satiated my urge to buy new grinders by watching what is an equivalent of a giant mukbang of gear. Thx Lance!
I upgraded from the built-in Brevile Barista Express grinder to the Timemore 078s and its like Im born again
DF64V owner here. I love how small and quiet it is. Since buying it half a year ago, I've had it stall with light roasts at 600-700 RPM, and had to tighten the screw on the grind setting indicator ring with the included hex key. At least it's easy to open up and fix. No complaints about the grind quality, and Lance's video on slow dosing conveniently not only improves that but also eliminated any stalling issues.
Can recommend this grinder for anyone wanting a small and quiet all-rounder for espresso and filter, but if I were buying one now I might save money and get the Gen 2, which wasn't out yet when I bought the V.
I don't think there's anything quiet about the Df64.
Why do you need 600 RPM? I just use it on 1800 for espresso only and never stalled
I have the df64 gen2 - the only thing that bugs me so far is it‘s absolutely deafening noise. Hope for you that the V is quieter 😅
@@bluemystic7501 The DF64V is in fact pretty quiet with its brushless motor.
@@hegyitaho For filter coffee.
Lance- thanks for the great vid as always. I have the DF64V and personally love how the feed shoot comes apart in two pieces as it allows be to very easily clean everything out with a brush. I appreciate how easy they made doing that.
078 non-S owner here, really nice to hear what you had to say about this one specifically. And did not expect the burrs to be considered your top three! So glad I managed to grab one.
64V owner here. Love it and so glad I’m in the land of chill pill and enjoying the cup quality over my previously owned Eureka Mignon. If you have or are considering anything in this lineup, just get what you like. This is like an all star lineup here.
Yes, but which has the stock burrs best for espresso? I'm stuck between the DF64V, Timemore 64S and the Gevi...I dont want to go past $500...Selling the Eureka 54mm burr grinder as I really dislike the adjustment knob. I like what I can get out of it but with many calibration shots(every time I switch beans, as I like trying different coffees), yet dont know what I maybe missing...LOL
I really appreciate the shout out @8:55 Lance! :)
A new Lance tagline “BEANS NOT MACHINES”
Thank you for offering a balanced approach and not a “buy this now” philosophy.
Thanks so much for this video. I ordered a DF64V yesterday then saw you were posting this today. Lost a little sleep but you confirmed that I should enjoy my choice and not worry about every little upgrade and new grinder. Whew….
Great video! That ending is exactly what I was looking for! I love my Sculptor and never had any intention to get rid of it but I was just wondering how it stacks up against EVERY grinder, including Weber's expensive art pieces. I expected the outcome but glad to be confirmed! Timemore has made the best bang for the buck grinder by far!
quick thing on the warranty - they don't void it if you swap the burrs yourself, but rather will only do so if the issue is causing by incorrectly having installed the burr
I appreciate the message you concluded on; it’s one many home enthusiasts need to hear. Focus should be on performance, cup quality, and relative value for money and availability; the last of which seems to be mostly overlooked by reviewers, including yourself. Why even mention the Zerno in this video when the grinder isn’t even available for purchase?
Team 078S reporting in!
Team "ordered an 078s in May and still waiting" also reporting in...
Hi senior, I am team C3S ... Still newbie, please be nice.
@@orideconblingbling I've been using a C2 for quite some time with a Bialetti moka pot. I fully approve of your path!
I love the workflow of my 078S so much more than the df64
Yep, love it. Had the 078s since Sep 23. Frankly it has been transformative, it's consistent, I can rely on it to produce what I intend and the flavours I'm getting from lots of different beans in most cases do represent the roasters intent. Great grinder.
I answered in the poll about channel direction "more nerdy, more beatbox". Thank you for listening your community, im content
I got a DF64V while waiting for the 078s to ship because my previous grinder had died. Was really looking forward to the 078s but the reality is that it's workflow just doesn't work at all for me. For example, the bean hopper on the 078s is small and awkward, forcing you to fiddle with the little cover to get it in place after dosing your beans in order to prevent popcorning. There is no such issue with the DF64V.
More importantly, it was much harder to read the 078s' grind setting and make adjustments to it compared to the DF64V's easy to use and read dial. The DF64V's dial can be read by just by looking strait down at it, while it was necessary for me to stoop to the level of the 078s' dial and view it strait on in order to accurately see the setting. By comparison, the Zerno and DF83V have better designed grind adjustment dials for grinders with vertical burrs because they can be read without stooping. The following may be specific to my kitchen, but my under-the-cupboards lights illuminate the DF64V's grind adjustment dial perfectly but they backlit the 078s' dial, making it necessary for me to turn that grinder towards another light source or use my phone's light in order to read it accurately on gloomy mornings.
My intention with these grinders was try out variable speed grinding. Even if this turns out to be not a useful thing, I bought both grinders intending to give it a go. The DF64V's grid speed dial is trivially easy to adjust, enjoyable even, while the 078s requires pulling the grinder out, turning it around and again, stooping down to adjust the setting. The 078s' grind speed adjustment dial feels like a checkbox item for marketing, and not anything that any thought was put into.
Regarding the grinds chutes on these grinders, I find the DF64V's far easier to use and clean. I could never tell what might be left in the 078s' chute. The twisty knocker thingy on the 078s might be fun to use but it doesn't give me any confidence that the chute is actually clean because, unlike the DF64V's, it's not possible see into it. So I disagree with the objections to the DF64V's chute, it's better than the 078s' in every way.
Accessing the burrs on the 078s is a long, painful process that requires tools and that resulted in bloodied knuckles and a lot of frustration, while the DF64V is a tool-less, quick and trivially simple process.
I used both grinders side-by-side for about a month and my appreciation for the DF64V only grew. The 078s is simply not as well designed as the DF64V. I found myself no longer interested in using the 078s, so I ended up selling it.
Hi ! Just a little note on the df64V. You Can also buy a slow feeder to avoid any stalling and reduce the feed rate 😉.
I only just upgraded my grinder to the DF64 Gen 2 with the SSP sweet lab burrs. Coming from a cheap and dirty ~50 buck grinder that I've been frustrated with for the past years, I am basically in heaven right now.
For me, the bellows aren't an issue at all - but then I don't seem to be experiencing that much retention in the first place (I don't even use a spritz of water)
Yo I got the EXACT same setup as you! The grinder is great, no retention, and so far its grinding everything greatly except for this ultra light roast I got from my local roaster (but I'm trying to see if I can fix it by aligning the burrs some more)
That’s quite a leap forward! 😁
I'd love to see your thoughts on the DF54!
Got the df64 gen2. It works absolutely perfectly…no static, 0,05g retention, good looking. It is just a bit loud 😅
I like to upgrade every 5-10 years, and these videos are a great snapshot of what's new.
The new mazzer seems like a great option to add into this arsenal. On the more expensive side but the build quality you get for it is probably going to be worth it especially after the first 10 years of use.
@17:35, this is exactly why I don't mind static on my DF64 gen1. Static tends to attract chaff more than coffee. The problem is RDT gets rid of most of the static. You love one thing and hate another :) In any case, this DF64 is here to stay for a long time.
I‘m using the 078s for 4 months now. The grinder does a pretty good job. Worth the money :)
I have a DF83V and pretty much agree with what Lance said here. I won't comment on cup quality because I'm not qualified, but here's my experience with using the thing:
Yes, it will stall on low RPMs at fine grind sizes. It seems like the low RPM is meant for filter coffee. That said feed rate seems to make the biggest difference. I dumped 100g of light roast in at once at a fine grind size and still stalled at a higher RPM but my normal 20g dose I can grind for espresso just fine at 300 without drip feeding beans into the thing. I suspect this is an auger design issue and I'm considering making my own once I feel like I understand the problem to see if I can slow that feed down.
When I have stalled it I have not had to remove the burr carrier. Increasing the RPM helps, which can be done while it's not running. I have been able to coarsen the grind setting just by turning the dial- it will feel jammed at first but that's just because the beans are pushing on the burr and the burr is pushing on the screw. Once you move it a bit it will come free. The adjustment knob just rests on the burr carrier and has some grease in there. It could use a thrust bearing or something like that and that's another thing I am considering adding. Once you get it moving you can adjust pretty coarse and try again, this worked for me even with the previously mentioned 100g stuck in there. Note that the dosing cup will not hold 100g, more like 30, so grind into something else if you try this.
Removing the burr carrier and reinstalling it it does not seem to hold the zero, but it's very easy to adjust so I would suggest resetting it any time you take the grinder apart.
At 1600 RPM it grinds fast, maybe too fast. It shot the grounds into the dosing cup with such force that they kind of bounced out. This was with no RDT and a light roast. I have heard conflicting reports on the less fines at low RPM statement, but I don't actually care that much about variable RPM. I have been sticking with 800 or 1000 and not messing with it too much yet.
Tapping the bellows instead of really pushing definitely works best. The declumper at the exit chute seems to be the most likely place for things to stick. I have seen some buildup on the magnetic exit chute.
Some people have talked about an offgassing smell. Mine (black) smells if I take a whiff but doesn't give off a strong oder, though I was running a fan past it at one point and that did seem to make things smell more. Some report a very strong smell, some don't. Seems to go away eventually, not sure if it's just on the black one. Does not seem to impact the taste of the coffee.
I got a Timemore 064s Launch Day for net 100€ because I also bought a 078s and sold it for rrp. I am happy with my purchase.
I've had a DF83 for over a year. It can make great coffee, but it's also helped me understand I want out of a grinder. 80mm blind sweet lab burrs, an efficient auger and prebreaker, vertical burrs, and a deionizer. Hopefully such a grinder is released soon and doesn't cost $3K lol. Great video!
What would you recommend for someone looking for a grinder under 1k
@@themessenger2356 That all depends on what you're looking for. Do you typically prefer conical or flat burrs, single dosing vs grind by time vs grind by weight, do you care about ground retention, what's your preferred workflow, acceptable noise level, etc.
The top end of grinders in that price range tend to be from Timemore, DF, Eureka, and Baratza. Personally, I'd check out the Timemore Sculptor (either size), DF83V (or 64 gen2 if you want to try different burrs without breaking the bank), and the Eureka Oro Mignon XL depending on what features you want.
@@sonorguy1 I have a 54/55mm Eureka, and the adjustment knob sucks. Lots of test shots between beans, so its hard to be consistent. looking at DF64gen2 or V or Timemore 64s(maybe 78, but I want to stay as much around $500) or the Gevi...Hard to select as I dont want to right away buy burrs, and drink 98% espresso. In video he talks good things about pour over, not espresso, so Im a bit left scratching my head. lol.
Good stuff as always! And nice title too! Thank you for listening to my advice under the previous vid!
Thanks for the PSA up front. That was perfect.
Regarding the little wood stand on the DF64V, it works great to flip upside down and use as a lid to shake grounds.
Neat! Thanks for that!
I purchased the df83v because I was in the market for a flat burr grinder. I have a Niche Zero as well currently although I haven’t touched it since the df83v came in. Obviously says I have been very happy with it and I’ve had it for 3 weeks now. Luckily I haven’t had it stall since the very first day. I have SSP HU burrs on it and I’ve gone down to 500 rpm without issue.
I’ve had mine stall, but only with the lab sweet burrs from SSP. I have mitigated it by not just doing a full dump with a hot start but a close to full dump. It all goes in within 2 to 3 seconds instead of just flat out zero on dumping.
@@Spoobie123 The SSP Lab Sweet burr is one that I wouldn’t mind trying especially if I could buy it used from someone already seasoned.
Hi,
I’m just a curious nerd 🤓😉.
When you reduce the speed, would that also reduce the power?
At higher speeds the inertia is obviously higher so even with the same power it would still be less likely to stall at higher speeds.
@@Conservator. 🤷♀️
Finally got my Kickstarter 078 after almost a year of waiting. A few minor niggles about the workflow (popcorning / beans stuck in the hopper when using RDT), but oh man the cups I've had with it are amazing. Glad I stayed patient, and at the $500 opening day KS price, it's just insane value.
Thanks for the PSA Lance, just here for the entertainment! I’m still very happy with my Timemore hand grinder ❤
Great video! I appreciate the repetition dissuading buyer’s remorse
Perfect video Lance, honestly the best overview without too much detail. Very well balanced and fast paced.
I’m at the point where the only reason I want a new grinder is that I’ve started doing espresso a lot more and I have a non-ESP Encore so I’m just saving up for an all-around grinder (and trying my luck on your giveaways 😅). For someone like me, who wants an upgrade for that reason, and is looking for something in this price range, this was a hugely helpful video.
One day one of these big name youtubers will include the varia VS3 in their roundup!
That Timemore chaff clicker is giving me major cloaca vibes.
Great video, as always Lance! I would have loved to see the Niche Duo in this round as well :). Perhaps next time.
Thanks for the video Lance :) i choose to stay manual because of you and bought the Pietro... I love it even if i have to do a workout every morning :D
Can you get your hands on a df54 for those of us that have to live on a budget? Compare it to grinders in your previous $200-$300 review.
Thank you, Lance. I own a DF65 v1, that I know how to use, so I'm fine for now. I may go for an upgrade when augers are more mainstream and developed.
I sidegraded. Went from a Fellow Ode with SSP MP burrs to a Timemore 078. Partly for a change and partly due to some astringency on certain coffees on the Ode. We shall see how the 078 goes.
I think 078 is an upgrade IMHO for filter.
@@LanceHedrickThanks Lance. I have high hopes for that. also to clarify I meant sidegrade pricewise - the kickstarter 078 was around the same price as the Ode with the SSPs.
I did this and feel like it's a pretty big upgrade
Just now looking into stepping up my coffee game, didn’t know it gets this wild lol much more to research, thanks.
I love the grinder reviews and comparisons more than any other videos on this channel.
I have the DF64 Gen 2 on order ($400). Apparently so does everyone else, because I won’t see it for at least another month. It’s replacing my old OXO grinder that I’ve been using for the past few years.
i really like your videos, they are always very educational. one thing i have noticed in the last few videos, is that the sound (you talking) sometimes stops very rapidly, which is irritating especially with headphones. sometimes the sound cuts while you are breathing in or out as well. and for me, i dont feel like there is a consistency when music plays and when not. some chill and quiet background music would very much soften these 'hard cuts'. other than that, love your content lance!
Honestly, given my current financial situation and my coffee obsession - I'm super happy with my Chestnut X & 078s, I never understood the 'need' to buy a new grinder every-single-time a new one comes out... I mean like WTF?! :D
As always Lance. You make me chuckle in a great way. “Poker face”.
I can brew really good coffee at home, so I’m not looking to buy anything new. I just like to hear you talk about coffee stuff 🤷🏽♂️ And the singing I like that as well ✌🏽
I never know how to react when a grown man beatboxes in front of me
The detailed explanation of Grinder is very helpful.
thank you
I am a weird person, never actually considered a electric grinder w/ filter burrs for filter coffee, I´m using a C40Mk4 w/ RX35 for the 2nd year now. I think (as Lance said) it isn´t about the NEED, but more likely about WANT bc of a thousand Instagram Influencer coffee accounts are showcasing these grinders.
Lance, really appreciate this video as I'm looking to upgrade from a SGP. What would you recommend between the Timemore 064/064s and DF64 if I want filter + espresso?
It doesn’t make any sense that a lower RPM would generate more heat than a higher RPM. For example, rub your hand slowly across some carpet, and then rub your hand rapidly across the same carpet. That’s where the term rug burn comes from. 🔥 Basic principle of physics.
Just sold my 078 because I found to get superior cups to my taste with Pietro pro brewing.. cleaner and less prone to bitterness. Workflow is worse though😁
Curious how much coffee you put through the 078 before selling? I had bitterness on finer settings for the first kilo or so but have been able to go finer and finer since without any bitterness. I did find that I needed to reduce agitation in my technique to help as well.
@@christophersmith8945 interesting, had mine since December so definitely put some kilos through and tried various grind settings. Maybe it’s just me preferring the even cleaner brews. Also thought about alignment issues, but that’s hard to check and apparently doesn’t seem to be a big issue with 078
@@fabilemusic9992 definitely interesting! guess it goes to show that everyone's tastes and perceptions are different. good news is you found something that works for you!
Commented on discord and got some very good feedback there, I'm definitely getting the 078s
I really appreciate your sentiment of sticking with what works for you and not worrying about the latest and greatest. But, it helps me in a different way. I am getting my first espresso equipment. Your scientific approach to things has helped me geek out, but also made me feel unable to make a decision. I have settled on a Robot, but couldn't decide on how big to go with a grinder. I decided on a DF64 gen 2 today. I'm sure these will be a great place to start and grow my taste. Maybe a Zerno and La Marzocco is in my future. But I think I'll be happy for a while.
Great Lance. Very sweet. And calm this time around. Thank you. ❤
Regarding grinders, Lance says: "Just take a chill pill". Words to live by.
df64v owner here.. still upgrading to a Philos. 😈
Can we talk about that iconic shirt?
I have the Wilfa Uniform because it was on sale and I am happy (filter only). I still watch these videos and I still feel happy about my purchase. Thank you for making them.
Starseeker, the maker of SD40 and iTop 64, actually came out with a 74mm vertical blind burr grinder at the end of last year. Too bad it's not marketed outside of China as of now, as I think it might prove to be a viable option alongside the 078s and the DF83v.
Hey, nice videos! I saw in past video of yours (Delta Q Ride Review) that you live in Portugal. I'm starting to love the expresso making flow and I find very hard to find speciality coffee, do you have store that you recommend?
"Beans Before Machines" - I think it makes really good sense... But what would you say to those who argue that you need a quite capable espresso machine (besides a good grinder) with options to pre-infuse well and in advanced ways and perhaps even flow profile to extract really light roasted (and possibly also dense high altitude) beans for espresso.
It seems some guys (especially one guy) on the HomeBarista forum claims that. And it sounds reasonable too 🤔
I was not ready for the Pokerface Beatboxing
Lance is a decent man, have seen so many influencers hyping all kinds of grinders
Hey Lance, would it be possible that you do a bit of a walkthrough about coffee beans this time? I'd like to have a better appreciation with what roasters put on the labels. The most consistent ones I see are:
- Roast level (light, med, dark)
- masl (meters above sea level?)
- Procssing type ( Washed, Natural, Honey)
and how do I react to what I see in these lables??
You be the date guru I be the cluelss schmuck -- teach me what my first moves should be when I meet these details, three.
Is the 064s still the best value grinder for making milk drinks? Curious how df54 will compare
I have a df64 gen 2 and it's been so consistent and great so far, I slow feed it by hand.
Makes me happy to have my Silenzio! TBF I lean hard into dark roasted Arabica/Robusta blends.
Looking at saving up for a Profitec 600. I’m looking at grinders and I go back and forth. I like single dose grinders with hopes of zero retention. Would you buy df64, timemore 064s, or spend more on a grinder like a eureka mingnon oro single dose, or some something completely different?
I am considering a new grinder. I love the Mahlkonig E65S, but the Anfim Pratica is much cheaper and almost the same thing. Any recommendations as the Pratica is about $1000 cheaper. This will be for home use and I will need the short hopper for either one of these.
I haven't gotten my Timemore 078s yet, but the problem I'm hearing is that there's enough retention in the knocker that it's not just fines and chaff leftover, ideally if it was just a little chaff and fines you can knock it out separately, and keep them out of your drink for a potentially higher quality brew! But if it's over a gram of fines, chaff mixed with coffee grounds, it seems like a waste and doesn't seem like it's doing its job as a single dose, low retention coffee grinder ! Chaff and fines shouldn't weigh anywhere near 1g (and there shouldn't be that much of it ideally). But I'll see how mine performs when I get it.
I received my 78S a few weeks ago and have noticed what you’re saying. I’m hoping there’s a break in period. I do love the machine. I also notice the beans need to be helped into the grind chamber after a first go.
@@BRogoMU a lot of seasoning is supposed to benefit those burrs. I'm still waiting for mine! If you're doing RDT that tends to make beans stick to everything and one reason why I hate RDT!
I dont plan on buying any of these grinders! But I watch the entire video cause lance is very entertaining. Keep up the coffee content! ☕️
Hey Lance, I got the 078 for filter based on your recommendation. It's excellent but without rdt the static has been awful. I started using just one spritz of rdt and that solved the static issue but a lot less is in the fines catcher now. What's your process on 078? Are you still against rdt for it?
Did you ever consider the DF83V? I am on the fence, DF83V or 078. Filter only!
Lance a couple years ago now,I think, you recommend the urbanic 070 for under $200.. Is that still the best flat bur grinder? I use the flair 58 to pull espresso shots. Thank you
Made me feel good about my grinder I already have! The more I get to know it the better the coffee.
Lance do you have any plans to cover the DF54 in any future videos?
Yes mod it with ditting steelies!!
Yeah, the part about the right beans are a big thing I think.
I drink decaf coffee and I would love to drink good lightly roasted coffee, but I only found medium to dark roasted coffee (in Zürich).
To the point that commercial ones were lighter on the roast than the specialty ones!
Idk what the reason might be but it was kind of funny to see that so far: The cheaperst one was the tastiest and lightest of the bunch. Like WTF!?
Tho I really enjoyed the darker ones aswell, at least from one roastery. ^^
(I am very suceptible to caffeine to the point that even too much decaf coffee can make me all shakey...)
Just bought a 83v wish me luck. Bang for the buck. almost went 64v. either way. all of these look good. Except the gevi seems gone for good. Timemore might get ssp to make burrs for it, maybe they say. Ode might be a good filter one too
I kinda want to see your take on the df54.
Interested in seeing the Gevi Grindmaster more, looking forward to watching all of this!
Thanks for that great summary video. I have a Ceado E37SD and i am curious about your thoughts for it.
i love it when lance hits the nitty gritty
DF line are amazing for the price
At this point I genuinely only want to get myself an 1Zpresso ZP6 because I've got nothing that's specific for filter coffee. That being said, I'm not opposed to getting one of these grinders in a Patreon competition, if ya know what I mean 😉
After waiting a whole year while hand grinding for the 078 yeah very happy.
Correction: I think Gevi walked back on the warrenty thing (at least for backers) so that you still be covered if signs of changing burrs is present. The only thing that they wont cover is if damage is caused by misaligment or whatever.
i went with the DF64V because it was an upgraded version of the regular df64 before the gen 2 came out. Im hoping lance does a video in a few months and says "wow, variable rpm is the best thing since sliced bread"
Thanks for the great advice and you’re so right about who has the biggest best grinder! 😂
Is there a preference for an espresso and filter grinder in that lineup?
I got my DF64 Gen 2 a week ago and am totally happy with it - above all at this price point.
Oh man! I’m happy with my DF64 v2 SSP unimodal. Thanks For the vid.
I have a df64gen2 on order in which I plan to convert to my dedicated filter brew grinder with some brew burrs. And maybe have a good gbw grinder for espresso. The Allground sense looks like a really good option right now but not much reviews out.
Thanks Lance!
I’m still very happy with my commercial grade Compak E6, bought second hand for less than 300. 😎
Grinds 18.6g of coffee in 5.45 seconds. 🤓
Hi Lance,
Do you think you could make a short/reel/post discussing the sounds of these grinders?
I have to grind in the early morning and the most important factor after cup quality is noise level and quality.
I know some grinders are louder than others but have a less jarring noise and some may be quieter but more intrusive sounding.
The ideal test IMO would be to run each grinder at an espresso setting and a brew setting. Then measure the dBs either just outside of your studios door or inside a thick cardboard box. Separately, subjectively rate the sounds next to the grinder and in the adjacent room/your head in the cardboard box.
This all sounds(hehe) a bit excessive and goofy but that means you are the perfect guy to take it on.
BTW its my theory that cones are quieter than flats in general. And I think that the less fines a burr produces the higher pitch the sound is ( when the grinder is held the same )
I love the Timemore S2C burrs! Going from the Timemore C2 to C3, oh, my gosh, it's SO much easier to grind with. It's a little bit slower as a cost, but that is worth the reduced wrist strain.
I have a C3 too, yes grinding is pretty easy. But i think the quality in the cup is Not that gread. I tried it for Espresso and would Rank the result a 3.5/10 than i Did another Espresso this time with a Eureka Atom 75 Rest was the Same and it was more 8-9/10. And i Did Not get satisfieing results with the C3 for Filter aswell. There the Fellow Ode gen 1 does a way better Job. But for Aeropress Coffee at Work the C3 is okay, but for pour over or Espresso i dont Like the taste. For the Aeropress it does an okay Job but i Did Not try Aeropress Coffee with the ode at the Moment.
@@Neilz911 I usually use my C3 for Aeropress brews at work. And I grind quite coarsely, as well. So I guess I haven't really pushed the envelope with it.
@@CaveyMoth Same with me and my C3. And it is a cheap grinder compared to the others and it is portable, i think the C3 is an okay package but If you Invest more you will have more fun...
IM LITERALLY SHOPPING FOR GRINDERS RIGHT NOW
i have never clicked faster.
I bought a DF83 v2 and have been disappointed with the consistency from run to run. I use it for filter and the zero point changes while I’m grinding 70g. The. Trying to readjust the zero point to be back to my original location. Trying to grind espresso after has a very course grind. Tighten it run it, zero point changes again, and keep tightening over an hour. It’s crazy.