ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Broken, cracked, OP, a "must pull" unit for both F2Ps and average players. This is the sentiment that has been largely going around the community lately. With some also calling her whale bait and requiring her Eidolon 2 to function properly. I react to this and give my take on how she performs, keeping her light cone, team, and build options in mind. In addition to discussing the potential for power creep and her overall place in the meta right now.
Music by Mewmore: • Mewmore // Driftveil C...
Twitch stream: / nuutty
Timestamps
00:00 Start
02:04 Community Perception
04:40 Options or Restrictions
07:40 Is Acheron is good for F2P players
13:19 The Lightcone problem
16:13 The problem is REAL
18:31 Freeing up Harmony units
22:56 Our current debuffers are mid
28:06 End
#honkaistarrail #starrail #nutty #acheron #jingliu
Her animations are a must pull for me😂
“DR. RATIO 🗣️🗣️🗣️ DR. RATIO IS FREE 🗣️🗣️🗣️” favorite section 😭😭
There is not a single character that is "MUST PULL" in HSR.
Counterpoint: Firefly babygirl
ruan mei
Which is to say. You're so right. :)
Any event 5* sustain is tbh you'll struggle quite a bit w/o them in moc 12
Hu tao
Finally a voice of reason chimes into the content creator marketing discussion
right? like who actually has s5 of every 4 star lc. So annoying
@@deanthelemur1716 who said you need every 4 star LC? Trend of the universal market works already at S1 since you don't need the additional burn damage and it has a base chance of 100% to hit. Pearls S1 also works since 60% base chance meaning it can be enhanced by effect hit rate and you don't have to worry about that if you have a Pela that has around 60-80% effect hit rate which is easily achievable with an effect hit rate chest and like 3 rolls into effect hit rate. Unless you're constantly fighting bosses that have a high effect res like the end game stuff as nutty said then it doesn't matter. The only S5 you need is GNSW if you really don't want that Signature LC despite the fact that it basically enhances her damage by like 30%-40%. And as nutty have said you can run Gallagher since you can S5 his cone for free on the MoC shop. There's also how most of the people that will probably pull are either new players or people that likes her so at the end of the day whats the matter if she's easily accessible or not.
@@slippy47holy yap
@@slippy47 "Most of the people that will probably pull are either new players...whats the matter if she's easily accessible or not." That's...kind of the problem? Every cone you mentioned is a Gacha one that many people may not have. Case in point being that I don't have *A SINGLE COPY* of *ANY* of those cones, let alone with superimpositions. And I've been playing for about 3-4 months now AND actually have dropped 50 pulls on a lightcone banner featuring one of these cones. It will be way worse for a new player obviously. It matters a *LOT* that Acheron isn't easily accessible since so many CC's are touting her as being a "must-pull" and promising incredible results--even for F2Ps and new players.
THE HSR creator cycle:
Drip stage: Wow X looks so cool/cute/hot/mommy! Just by their design I wanna pull them.
Kit Reveal stage: X is overpowered, omnipotent, a baddie and a must pull, older 5* char Y is now stupid, and a doodoo-head. We are going into a "NEW META" now! Trust me I have all the facts (that I can't reveal) with me!!!
At Launch stage: X is everything! X serves every purpose! You have to pull X NOW!!! Oh ho ho ho look 10 quadrillion damage, and only mid relics! Of course I spent money on getting all S5 4*-5* LCs and max stamina refresh everyday, but you can get it too, it is just RNG!
1 month post launch: X is okay, but did you see the new drip marketing for Z?!
Even tho Acheron is gorgeous I'm not pulling for her.
My account has no proper resources to make a reasonable team for Acheron because of the lack of Nihility which was also a reason why I skipped Kafka and Black Swan.
I got silverwolf on 1.1 and till this day she is still not built. Just the thought of pulling Acheron, having to level her up, skill up her traces and skills, farm her gear plus all the work to do the same with 2 other Nihility characters is just too much for me since I can already manage to clear Moc12, while hoping that I can still manage to keep doing it while making improvments in my units.
Awesome video! Bringing some light to this topic and also talking about some of the issues I saw while watching a ton of other videos about this.
you don't have to ofcourse but just saying acheron, pela, sw, sustain is good option if you like her, but if just don't wanna pull her cause you have to build everyone is fair. It would be better overall to just invest in same harmony unit and their teams.
Same i have to skip her for a preservation character as my only 5* limited sustainer is huohuo and i need a preservation one to clear the rest of content so im pulling aventurine after that im going to pull any good dps character get released
Silverwolf been in every team of mine since she released lol
@@4..xhow do you not have Fu Xuan?
@@4..x wait do you need 1 shielder and 1 healer for clearing Moc,PF? i thought 2 healers or 2 shielders also works
Its actually insane how some waifu collectors work.
Back in fufu patch you had people telling you "SHE'S A MUST PULL FOR SUSTAIN". But somehow in this patch, Aventurine, who (according to dreams) is going to be equally good...is not a must pull? Sure, we have more sustain units. But that doesn't change how absolutely op he is. Yet...theres literally no hype for him, even though he's not only going to be busted, but he'll also make fua teams so much better.
No, instead its the dps. Who isn't even the best dps- (at the investment most player will give, which is e0 to low eidelons, and soecific supports). But remember- DHIL, Blade, and Argenti were not must pulls because "DPS gets powercrept quickly". But somehow Acheron is immune to this. Dont get me wrong- I like Acheron- I think she's cool and she has great animations. But I'm not talking about personal taste, I'm talking about people who use "meta" as their reason to pull.
Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but it feels very bias. Which is disappointing, but unsurprising.
She’s not the best DPS even at max investment
Danny Heng and Jingliu still out damage her at E6S5 and even Jing Yuan, the guy everyone said fell off, gets VERY close to out damaging her with sparkle’s help
@@Goblinhandler See I wanted to say not even the best but I wasn't 100% sure of the calcs. Ty for the information
I am getting her without her LC and I have only an S1 GNSW. I know she’s going to be limited a ton on my account but her animations are just too good. I’ve played gacha games long enough that I go for the fun looks and animations even if I can’t use them right. Plus her talent looks so fun, I just wanna “unga bunga” around the maps and kill everything. I wish everyone the best luck in puller her and her LC for those that are trying.
thank you. you are really sweet^^
You will be fine with GNSW, and with a bit of luck you may pull more superimpositions of GNSW over time for a bit of extra damage. Some people are just doomposting as usual. People said this same crap about Jingliu saying she needed her LC and it was BS, and it is BS here too.
its just gonna be so much harder to build her without it specifically bc crit buffing light cones are hard to pass up for a dps like her. Gonna be more substat heavy.
@@DiamonDustBS?
@@dramaqueenmiku6386 Awww thank you too!! ^0^
so happy to have finally found someone with a more reasonable take on Acheron
This video is so incredibly based for taking an unbiased view on Acheron and her accessibility with all her restrictions to make her a competitive dps for MoC(dps optimization doesn’t really matter outside of it). The amount of content flying around saying she’ll be fine is immense without taking into consideration that Pela needs a gacha LC or E4 to debuff every turn and that Trend is another gacha LC that doesn’t even show up on her LC banner. Great content!
You don't need pela. Any dot will work so Sampo and Guin work aswell. Pela is just on her banner and an S tier support.
@@Helperishere I agree that you don’t *need* Pela strictly speaking, but I wouldn’t say that it’s an S-Tier team to run two dot units who can’t detonate their own dots without either E4 for Sampo or full energy for Guinaifen.
Again, if you just want to make her work you can definitely just run Sampo/Gui to satisfy the 2 nihility req, but I don’t see that really being a good team for MoC which is the only content worth optimizing for aside from PF. Everything in the overworld dies relatively easily.
@@bowow55555 I agree. I believe if you're gonna play her well then you're 100% gonna want SW or Pela and then Guin or maybe BS. I don't think she is restricted in terms of teammates to be playable though as some people say. Most of us have Pela built and getting a free Guin next patch plus Gallagher on her banner aswell make it probably the best patch to pull and build her. Oh and the farming event aswell making it 10x easier
@@Helperishere thats like saying you dont need bronya, sparkle, tingyun or ruan mei for hypercarrys, any harmony will work... lol
@@chelo136 Yes. That's exactly what it means.
Your point comparison about selling you a car so you can buy the parts later and the Kafka example is so on point. What a business model.
Still gonna pull for the new mommy tho
That's why I will wait for her rerun. She is a sussy investment especially with the upcoming chars uptil 2.4.
i really appreciate the video, it feels very refreshing to hear counterpoints to the hype.
Holy crap Nutty you're the light at the end of the tunnel, every other youtube is basically selling me a product, whereas you and EODGamer are providing a real analysis. Thank you again!
The fact that you mentioned Pela will be powercrept is so damn based. Every 4 star will be powercrept in this game, so if you want to be efficient, don’t go all in on them. Yes, even Ting Yun will be replaced eventually. (5 stars are pretty safe to invest in though, even standard banner ones until you pull stronger limited alternatives.) This is a game designed to make money after all.
You are a very reasonable and underrated cc, keep it up! I hope you get the attention you deserve soon!
To be fair... pela will eventually get powercrept but she will always he a cheaper option that costs less mats to get going
Definitely not me just maxed my sampo and guinaifen
Oh for sure. Thankfully all units are viable in pve games@@cookies23z
dawg what? how is this even a point? pela being powercrept is entirely irrelevant since she is freely obtainable for pretty much any player lmao. yall love to doompost about anything. easily accessible/low investment characters that are extremely powerful shouldnt be an issue if they are powercrept because they will still be an alternative option
Eh even 5 stars (and the top meta units) will eventually get powercrept if the game is old enough especially dps units. Even Jingliu and Acheron will become a victim of that at one point.. Supports usually don't get as easily powercrept as dps units.
this is why as someone who needs a 2nd DPS, I'm skipping Acheron and going for Jingliu. One might have a way higher damage ceiling than the other, but the investment it takes to get there is so high, I'm going with the character that can get me through with my low spender account.
25:56 Actually, Jing Yuan's best team was Tingyun + Asta + sustain, arguably until Hanya came out (unless you whaled out Topaz, ofc). Pela was never a good teammate for him, and, before someone says it, neither was Bronya.
Also, his best team right now still runs Tingyun. That extra energy is just straight up more important than everything Ruan Mei offers.
Believing Bronya is even compatible with Jing Yuan is the vibe check that determines whether or not someone knows anything about him, because as shown with how people reacted to the bounce on Argenti's ult; most people know literally nothing about how he works.
@@K-Sha1 Yeah, the amount of misconceptions people have about him despite being a literal 1.0 characters is baffling. Bonus points to certain content creators who straight up admit they never build (and therefore never used) him yet love lecture us all.
Do u think i could put in sparkle instead of asta and I'm thinking of getting aventurine , unfortunately i don't have a tingyun yet
@@Samwise_genji Sparkle is pretty much Jing Yuan's best support right now, quite a bit better than Asta.
Aventurine seems really good in general, problem with running him on a Jing Yuan team is that he doesn't give 100% protection against crowd control debuffs like Fu Xuan does, for example. Still perfectly usable, though.
I only started Star Rail about a month and a half ago, but your content has been a great help to me. Deserves more views
Your intro was amazing, i loved it! Amazing acting and great creativity!
thank you for saying that dr ratio point, iyo seems to have completely forgotten about that
high quality videos i really appreciate your hard work🎉
been watching your vids and I thought you had 35k or 357k subs lol, great quality please keep making content
Great video !! I was on fence as I have already Kakfa +. Blackswan team and Dhil/JY team with Sparkle . I was thinking for Jingliu for ice coverage or sustain since I only have huo huo as limited sustain. But this acheron kit is baiting me so hard to pull for her , her design kit is so good though.
I'm kind of envious of you, bc I started to make content around the same time as you did, yet I just hit 1,2K and you're twice my numbers. However its totally justified, you have a lot of great takes and insights. I still miss those crazy videos you opened your channel up with though xD
You know somehow despite I am expert player and theorycrafter and I basically know everything you have to say I still find myself watching your vids till the end.
production value 📈📈📈
luv your videos, keep it up!
10:49 Guinafen has Firekiss. You could build her for break. Would be great for Fire weak with Gallagher.
Maybe not the strongest option, but imo the best 3rd party member for Acheron with new players.
I'm not a new player, yet I skipped SW twice, she's going to get powercreeped in a few months too, so Guinaifen is a REALLY good choice as DMG received ≠ DMG dealt in the DMG calc.
@@raven-0621 Silver will never get powercrept unless they make an AoE Silver. Outside of her weakness implant she still applies the best debuffing in the game (DEF reduction, ATK reduction, SPD reduction, All-Type RES shred). Will take years minimum before we get anything similar to what she does but better.
@@hallyuniverse there's a leaked character kit who debuffs DEF on basic atk, on a blast skill and spreads it to all enemies on ult, that character is supposed to come around 2.4~2.6 and I'm sure their eidolons will be even more op with def pen or res shred/pen
@@raven-0621 I've also heard that character also heals as part of his/her Ult.
@@raven-0621 What are the ratios for that debuff though? We have Pela who already has 100% uptime 40% Def down, it would have to be a larger amount than that while also providing other benefits, in Pela's case she also gives her team 10% EHR and is one of the cheapest characters in the game to build as you only need to level her Ult and Talent, skill doesn't matter, entire right side and top of her trace tree can be ignored.
SW will always have the niche of weakness implant, all type res down, large ST def shred and all the other debuffs from her talent, you can't power creep SW just by being a def shredder you'd have to literally do weakness implant but AoE, that's why she'll always have her niche.
I think people are confusing what F2p means. It does not mean being able to put out numbers close to full potential. It means it's viable to build a team capable of clearing current content without spending money. If a f2p build can clear moc12, then it's viable even if u're not dishing out 2 million damage ults.
Say hypothetically acheron does 300k ults on a f2p build and team, but is still able to clear moc12 and PF. Well, what diff does it make that she does 300k vs 1m damage? The 1 million is over kill and a luxury.
I think the focus should be more on if she can clear content more easily and faster than your currently already built teams
Do note that a lot of that damage actually comes from overkilling mobs that have already died. Brax's showcase has her damaging Yanqing for 290k out of 900k, so it's not like she's outputting bonkers damage numbers against bosses. Still pretty hefty though.
@@ShinHakumen yup. Which goes to my point. If she can kill mobs comfortably with a f2p build, she's still considered f2p friendly. You don't need that ungodly amount of overkill damage to clear content. It's just a pretty number to see lol. Conversely, if her laid LC didn't do something better than the f2p one, then what's the point of it?
@@hitokiri007 That number is from using either her sig or an S5 GNSW though. So she'll be decent, but she does need more investment compared to the other DPS units in order to output that decent performance. You only need to optimize damage for MoC and PF anyway.
for me, imo f2p means least investment over the value you receive. like how little u need to invest in dot team, or with jingliu or with busted support like ruan mei, what makes u clear things more efficiently. really depends on ur account, if u never built nihility characters and has well built supports then its hard to recommend pulling acheron over jingliu who just works, honestly its more of a new player problem really, as someone who can clear 90% of the content, there is no regret for me pulling for acheron just for the animation alone xD
Acheron has no f2p options, she hits like a wet noodle when compared to every other dps at maximum f2p investment
Best video i've seen since i started playing!
No bullshit, less personal feelings and more facts for the situation she is in! New subscriber man, keep up the good work!!!
It's a package, you get her, with lightcone or not and wait for the pieces to come out, just like Kafka.
From good, or amazing with her LC, she will become busted later. 4* can clear the game just fine, if you don't like her character archetype you can take her and leave her with the 4* supports, else you take LC and her 5* teammates.
They will probably also put enemys with stronger buffs, that way a debuffer or someone who remove buffs will be more valuable in harder content.
It's not a bad thing since you can still use one Nihility and one Harmony with her, even more i bet they will release a healer debuffer (5* version of Gallagher) and not just new Nihility to take the place of Pela like you said.
Im new (TB Lv.54) and my plan is to take her AND Jingliu. I should have enought to take a shot at Robin too if all goes well so im skipping her LC, they will make a rerun of a loved character guys.
I need to build a ton of characters for sure but who cares as long as i have fun. They put the relic boost for that reason as well.
There is no rush, i can take her LC when im more comfortable with my pulls and her supports start coming in. The 900k damage vs 500 or 400k damage loss doesn't bother me at all, i've got JingYuan in a lucky early pull and im all in for that 400k with Acheron lol
This is what I call a real analysis! Acheron can be a dividing character that doesn't fit well into everyone's teams. I didn't get Harmony units for a long time in the game and always relied on Nihility characters instead, so for me she is inevitable. But for someone who is used to Harmony characters and doesn't have her Nihility teammates... well, now they have at least one good video they can rely on before they roll for Acheron!
Quite funny about the MC and the dot based LC, been rocking that for AGES! Maxed out ready!
Me too tbh. The other LCs are better but I never got the other ones
@@Helperishere yeah it just makes sense, can taunt, easily apply burn no problem, Kafka goes BRRRRR lol.
You have the best takes of all the content creators I've watched, and I'm a addicted youtube viewer. Good video 😍
I never onced grabbed a character bcuz they're broken personally lol I LOVE her aesthetic, character, playstyle, and change in this harmony overload meta. If shes harder to make work as a FTP thats fine, i have no problem taking longer to build a character i enjoy rather than going "OU NEW BROKEN HARMONY YAY"
Same here. I pulled for jingliu because I like her character as a whole. Same reason why I'm going for Acheron. Doesn't matter how long it will take to fully build. Having fun and being happy in the process is the more important reason.
And this is kinda why i'm actually glad i follow these "must pull" videos and try my luck times to times because now I got every unit Acheron might possibly need : got every harmony character if she need one, every Debuffer/Nihility besides Kafka and my second team i'm working on was already a Nihility one. And i even got Huo Huo too. I'm already set on many part. Plus the fact i don't have Lighting unit and Jingliu is my only hypercarry/Dps... I hink i'm good to pull . LC is another topic tho
Her LC isn’t necessary for her, u can use GNSW and play bronya and sparkle with her, thier action advance can help her get more turns, u can even get both bronya and sparkle buffs before action advancing her with bronya as sparkle buff last for the next turn so u basically getting both buffs for her ultimate which is her main source of dmg
Ofc her LC with his setup can get her ult faster but its still not necessary for her
I don't really get the argument at 10:40. You say you "HAVE" to build SW and that Gui is kinda cope, so now you're stuck pulling for a limited 5 star... but isn't that the case for like every team? Ruan Mei, Sparkle, I guess you have Bronya as a non-limited option. Yeah there's other 4 stars that work, but Gui also works. Even if she's "just" providing a debuff with only a basic, the value she provides from just that is significant, the same way crit teams 4 star options are significant.
You even circle back to this at 27:00 talking about how the dot team had to get a bunch of new things after Kafka release. For new players, no matter what DPS they pick, for their ideal team, they're going to need/want to pull other limited. The real point I think you should be making there is that the current popular limited support units are usable with more DPS. Although you also talk about Pela getting powercrept, and if she does get powercrept correctly, that unit will be usable in all teams, Acheron or not, which I think goes against the idea you'll have to pull a unit for just the Acheron team
I think the light cone issue is real, both on Acheron and to a lesser extent her supports, and is just a straight up huge reason to not get her as a new/f2p, since you could get Jingliu and a limited support/sustain with those rolls. The relevant 4 stars for her being on the banner are nice, but it doesn't make up for the LC gap.
youre the only hsr ytber worth watching to me keep it up broski
Thank you so much for articulating these thoughts that I kind of had on my mind as well but that were massively overshadowed by the hype. I even have Pela and Welt levelled up with finished traces, but since I don't have the light cones and gear, I still think I shouldn't be pulling for her.
But the animations...
Glad to see this video. I started the game with 2.0, and have never played a gatcha game before, though I've been playing live service games for ages. I'm pulling for Acheron because I really like the look of the character, and really fits well with the style of characters I like to play. I still get tired of watching the relentless hype machines most creators turn out to be. No one NEEDS Acheron. Rven if she "breaks" the game, it won't be for long. That's just how live service games work
I doubt anyone will replace her in her own niche considering right now she basically enables the hypercarry DPS like JL and DHIL to run the powerpuff girls teamcomp without taking one of them. Someone will probably powercrept her damage wise but basically enabling versatility on your account already opens up so much in the future. And if this is your first gacha and are new to the hoyoverse games, from what we've seen so far all variants/expy of Raiden mei from the original honkai series always survives the meta and is future proof.
@@slippy47 HoT is completely dead in hi3 tho
@@MrGoodra17She died to her own glow up version as far as I'm aware so I'm not sure if thats the best comparison
@@isshonsaha8673 not really, she got powercrept by teri and sena. HoO is just a support for the herrscher trio.
I know everyone is saying the animations made them want to pull her but the sound effects for her animations are what got me. Just immediately made me think of the old school RPG "vorpal slash" for some reason, which fits her well actually
Excellent video, especially the strategy comparison with Kafka. I recently skipped Kafka because it meant buying into multiple units. Since i started playing on PS5, i missed her original banner. I couldn't guarantee both her and Black Swan right after, so i passed on both. After all, i had already acquired many team enablers like Ruan Mei and Silverwolf. You can only follow do many compositions with your limited resources... 🤷
this popped in my feed and the intro just made me sub
that was funny 😂
I feel like this comment will not receive much attention but I still feel the need to comment regardless. So I will less frame this as a "counter point" to Nutty and instead try to bridge the gap between people who recommend pulling her VS Nutty's opinion (which I openly acknowledge isn't him going against pulling.) I feel compelled to write this because while Nutty does make fair points I feel like the debate encompassing Acheron hasn't really solidified, instead it's a bunch of different arguments happening side by side. Anyway, I will try to be brief:
1) "F2P must pull Acheron." Addressing this one first because it is the most important talking point but I also feel like the most misrepresented. To be perfectly clear, NO CHARACTER IS A MUST PULL. Gacha games are subject to power creep by design. Even if you have a character as cracked as Fu Xuan is being very hard to be replaced she will be replaced eventually. Either because someone offers better mitigation on top of other relevant benefits, OR the need for what she offers will drop since other things are more desired.
What is really being argued here is shelf life, which will matter more or less depending on the person. HSR is incredibly casual friendly so staying power isn't really relevant. I think the discussion is better framed on value she brings for the future. Not whether she should or shouldn't be pulled. I must bring it up again that this is a Gacha game, regardless of how investment heavy a character is or isn't they likely are not going to try and sell you a character that cannot be used by most players.
2) HSR is leaning towards being a more team synergistic game. At the moment most characters are played a very specific way and want pretty specific units for MoC/PF. You have options to swap around if you don't have something available. Like say Lynx can effectively replace Loucha because they both have good healing and cleanse. Just where and how it's done is different. The idea of 2.0 characters is different than 1.0
A lot of people only see Acheron as a hyper carry unit but that is a mistake. She is a colorless break person. We only have one other person that exists that can pair with her on this sort of idea. We also have a character that helps you specialize in breaks. People seem to misunderstand just how strong the actual damage from a break is. In theory you can build a team around these hyper efficient breaks that ignore elemental requirements. She'd still output strong damage due to how her kit works. Another kind of team comp you can think about with her is a double DPS comp.
Since DoT's are debuffs you can realistically create good uptime around her ultimate. If you are outputting her ultimate twice in the time it takes to have a very high damage ultimate go off you're not losing damage. In fact because you have DoT popping off you have more team wide damage going on. If you've noticed this is how FUA characters are getting pushed as well. You don't need 2 debuffers/nihility characters because despite how good that damage buff is it's equal to Mei's buff. Instead of only thinking that her trace is the only way to get good damage look elsewhere for where you can get damage buffs.
To close this point out Acheron is a singular focused damage button. But because that damage button can achieve it's goal through different methods due to the design of the kit you do not need to treat her like a traditional carry ala Jing Liu or Dang IL. You're asked to think about your team comp in a different way rather than having 1 dmg, 1 synergy, and the other 2 being only preservation/harmony.
3) About Light cones. This is a big part of the discussions at hand but thankfully is something I can be incredibly brief about. It's the one spot I fully agree with Iyo on, people need to be pulling on LC banners. LC's are so important in this game that you cannot rely on a character being complete without one. Yes it sucks that her LC is incredibly strong, but you know what? Same was the case for Jing Liu. I don't have hers and I do just fine. It took longer and I don't do as big numbers but because I built her well that doesn't matter.
Yes her other option is a gacha LC. But it's also on her LC's banner which you should be pulling for anyway. In regards to other characters (specifically taunt MC with Universal LC) this is a specific niche pick as a last ditch to form a team while you work on building your account. Taunt MC is mentioned because every time you are successful that's 1 stack for Archeon. When ever fire MC hits a DoT that's another one. 2 ways to DoT is from the kit itself and universal. It's scuffed yes, but the point of mentioning it was that even in the barest of situations there are decent options for her team to use in the mean time. To which I should also mention enemy related debuffs also count for Acheron. You don't need a hyper specific team to have high up time for her ult which is the point.
Final) If I can summarize this post it would be this. She isn't mandatory nor will anyone ever be. However she's valued for two specific reasons. The flexibility/future proof/whatever you want to call it. And the damage she is capable of. Her kit is smartly designed and puts her pretty damned close to Jing Liu when both are E0. With proper investment/team build she passes Jing Liu. You cannot go wrong with the second best damage dealer in the game at E0. Regardless of if you pull for her specifically or not the real take away should be PULL MORE LC BANNERS. If you're going to care about the game in any kind of way long term it is simply a mistake to not pull. Be like Silver wolf, don't think just pull.
OH and uh, I also want to briefly mention that many of the "problems" against pulling her are purely for things that only people who want to MoC/PF need to worry about. LC's outside of there are primarily stat sticks. Traces is generally where your character gets the most power for minimum investment and then LC's. So unless you plan on tackling MoC/PF ASAP just use an LC that gives you the most in the stats you care about.
OH OH OH ALSO I forgot to mention it but we're getting a 4 star picker in 2.1. So that can help you with making a team too.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the insight! The debate on Acheron definitely hasn't solidified, and I think it won't until she is officially released at the earliest.
I understand all your points and agree with you on all of them. No such thing as a must pull unit, and that she will be strong with her lightcone or at least GNSW; alongside lightcone banners being something that people should pull on for the best results. You also brought up her being more of a colorless break character, which I did not really consider heavily at first. But it is something that I will now be having an open mind about as I play and build teams for her.
The fact that you are typing out this comment despite me agreeing with you I think showcases my failure to properly articulate these ideas in the video. I would say the main reason for this is that I kind of blended the ideas of "f2p" and "new player" in my head into one entity at points. I also didn't properly convey how I don't think the things mentioned in the video are "issues" and rather things to be aware of. The same way I wouldn't say that Jingliu requiring Bronya to perform at her best is an "issue". I brought up the topics of having to rely on nihility units and having to get specific gacha lightcones because I don't think they arefocused on enough in a lot of the videos circulating right now. The hope of this video was to bring awareness to that, and not so much argue about how viable Acheron will be compared to other DPS in the game right now. Or whether it would be more expensive to invest into JL compared to her.
@@Nuttyjuice01 First thank you for the reply! It means a lot to me that someone reads my lengthy responses. I'm also thrilled to hear that a point I raised is impacting the way you will look at the character. I consider myself to be very newbie with the game since despite me starting HSR to pull SW's first banner I never took it too seriously until now.
In regards to you failing to properly articulate your points I cannot agree or disagree here. As I mentioned I wanted to formulate a more well rounded/surface level but neutral comment to big talking points about her. I think that while there is always room to improve in anything you do I do wish you would acknowledge that likely the reason why there was an issue is because these kinds of videos (aka react/respond) are incredibly difficult to make without it sounding like you're disagreeing with the person.
So by all means if you can take what I've said as a way to improve your content then go ahead, but I wish for you to know that I specifically commented on your video because I feel like the way you do content adds value to HSR content creation. I have only watched 3-4 videos of you so far but I am tossing a sub your way because I like your content and how you discuss topics.
To close out this comment (as to not make it as long as the first lol) The clashing of F2P vs new player is the main cause for my initial statement. People are attempting to debate Acheron's "value" by using different talking points across the board. The issue is each point being used has more or less been treated as the main header of the discussion rather than individual and separate talking points. Because these points are from different parts of the community/players it can make things sound confusing.
So to be clear I don't think you caused the confusion intentionally nor did it really come off that way. I specifically wanted to separate them in my reply for others to read because people easily get caught up in the points being made rather than assessing their own situation. They aren't doing STAR like they should :T I think regardless of quality you presented good talking points for responses to other people's thoughts.
If I had ONE nitpick about the video at all it would be the lack of mentioning enemy related debuffs. All though I understand why you didn't really focus on DoT characters being able to contribute to her ultimate I feel like most people are not aware of the enemy contribution. Which I feel plays a significant part in people getting tunnel visioned in what team comp is best for her. The goal of my comment was to get across that Acheron can fit into many comps and that people shouldn't tunnel vision into needing specific characters to get value out of her. (Hence the comment about the 2 nihility characters=Mei's buff.)
Anyway that's enough yapping, thanks again for the genuine response, I look forward to watching more from you
Thank you for this video , finally an UNBIASED take on Acheron , many CC lost their credibility trying so hard to sell Acheron lately , she's a decent dps , but she's no where as broken as some claims ,she is A tier at E0S0 , at best , maybe she will become better with future supports , but claiming that she is a MUST PULL and she will outperform Jingliu/ DHIL/ JY in their current best teams is just straight up Lying to your audience
Even with her light cone, she won’t out damage any of those three
She hits like a wet noodle when not using her ultimate
Not to mention she has a weird inability to use any path in SU
@@Goblinhandler
me when i intentionally spread misinformation on the internet to feed my bias
she can fcking use 3 arguably 4 path lmao
hunt, erudtion, elation which anyone can use if u get the3 star blessing, and nihilty if u focus on the debuff and not the dot aspect
they wont fking make her broken for SU if she cant use SU paths
🤣🤣🤣
average hoyo *discourse* L
@@Goblinhandler I didn't say she will out damage them , but she will become at least competitive with her LC , I still don't get why ppl are overhyping her when we already have some great dps that are just stronger , that's like saying Argenti is busted because he also does big pp dmg with his ultimate , but since he's not a hot waifu , some CC didn't even care about him in his release
@@ImagineCats9339she’s not that competitive even with her LC, she just becomes actually usable
She’s Yanqing tier without it, a mediocre DPS that doesn’t do that much damage when compared to others for, it becomes especially bad for Acheron since you need to hyper invest into her and her teams
Argenti probably has better damage than her, the guy can very easily spam his fully charged ult
@@scarlettryuken4320She uses half of erudition, erudition’s thing is spamming your ult, she can’t spam her ult that way because of her gimmick
Yeah every character with an ultimate can use elation, doesn’t mean it’s actually good on them
Nihility’s blessings are basically all DOT related, they buff, heal or debuff whenever you damage an enemy with dot
Love the intro lol. I'll be pulling for Acheron because I put everything on the line for Raiden in Genshin and the moment we met Acheron was prepared to do it again... sort of fortunately for me, I have a very weird account in that I took a break for a while and came back with 0 5 star destruction characters, and the characters I tend to be drawn towards and thus build are all nihility (Welt, Silver Wolf, Sampo, Little Gui, Kafka...). I'm also just now building up my supports (mainly Pela... I swear I didn't choose nihility it chose me lmao), and I don't even have a Bronya, let alone any limited harmony characters, which seems almost essential with the character comps you see constantly. I've been trying to improve my account with a lot of research, and your account improvement and relic videos have helped a lot. Unfortunately, I'm doing that thing you said not to do where I'm mainly pulling for waifus/husbandos but still would like to clear content eventually... Luckily for me, I've had a Resolution lc for forever and finally pulled a Good Night Sleep Well the other day.
TL;DR I was gonna pull her whether she was meta or not, but it's sort of relieving to know that I'm in the super weird position of her actually fitting my account.
Great content man. You're a rising star in the HSR CC space
I found this very entertaining as someone watching from the sidelines building a totally unrelated team ( MoC laughs at me since I just hit TL 66 and don’t even have correct main stats on my relics yet).
By the time I get enough resources to think of building another character, I hope feature/power creep happened so hard that I can build a “useful joke” team of only [Anti]-Preservation, HARMony, and Abundance [of pain] and clear with it.
Pretty much on point. This is a resource management game and it's not easy for F2P or a new player to build a niche support character, and miss out on building more universal characters for the benefit of many other hypercarries, current or future. "Alternative" light cones are also a problem. I'm not even F2P and I still don't have a single Resolution Shines As Pearls of Sweat LC, which is arguably a rotation game changer for Pela in Acheron teams.
I'm only halfway through the video and I now realize that I got really, really lucky with my pulls and lightcones. I won the 50/50 for acheron and because I saw Iyo's video saying you should get the lightcone, I did (though I was really debating it). I got gn sw trend LC resolution and eventually got her LC.
This was a banger of a video. I'm glad you pointed out a lot of the concerns I've seen many players voicing. I want to pull Acheron, but I don't have any good lightcones for her. My Pela is E0 and I don't have a resolution shines cone. I have no Silverwolf, nor do I plan to ever pull one. I do however have Ruan Mei, Sparkle, and Tingyun built. This is the reason I don't like terms like "must pull," as it doesn't consider the context of each individual's account. Were I to pull Acheron as my account is now, I'd be perpetually playing catch-up for like 6 months before I can experience some of the strength that many creators are promising. If I pulled Jingliu instead however, I could very easily experience a much greater portion of her actual potential--making her a better fit for my account. Once again, good video. Appreciate the different point of view.
I’ve always thought the same thing about ‘future-proof’ units, but have never been able to articulate it.
The car analogy was spot on, a unit is future proof when they have specific outlined sections of their kit that will be improved upon in the future.
Other units, maybe they will, maybe they won’t, probably will, but it’s not guaranteed. Either way, in both scenarios you have to invest into it later.
Not to mention that Jingliu and Dr. Ratio (the free one and the OP one) have one their best LC on Herta’s shop.
And that GNSW only was in the LC banner back in the 1st phase banner on 1.0 and never since then (until Acheron’s LC banner)
"the alternative LC is GNSW, with S5 it can close the gap with sign LC" man I don't even have GNSW
I have e3. I only use it on my SW. I have so much investment into Erudition and FuA units so she has no room on my account.
If you pull for Acheron sig LC, you have a chance of getting GNSW. But then, why go for just the 4 star when you have the chance to obtain the best thing.
@@pao9816 hmm... getting the opportunity to roll on LC banner, obtaining her s1 LC is more reasonable than to GNSW especially on s5
Don't worry, according to Iyo people who aren't spending on LC banners are acting "privileged" about LC requirements and should sit down and cope with not having busted 4* LCs. The guy himself has a S9 GNSW btw.
@@SM-oc4rc I'm sure Iyo is a nice guy, but boiiii does he have the absolute worst takes out every content creator I have watched (and that's tons). Man is a waifu simp trying to pass as an objective voice in meta discussions. He would NEVER EVER defend a character like Acheron if she was some random dude he didn't care about.
oh hey btw isnt the f2p penacony nihility light cone good for Silverwolf since it gives damage based off of her EHR she wants like 90% ish EHR and max traces and the LC goes up to 80% ofc its probably not as good as resolution but it does seem like a good f2p option if you missed the tutorial mission event
I bet we’re gonna get a nihility character that will take a portion of the enemies health (like that one weekly boss) and heal based on that amount, counting as a debuff and being like an abundance character
Sir if I may ask, I'm 32/50 in Sparkle banner (counted from when I got Welt on her banner). Unfortunately I'm out of tickets and jades. Will I get Acheron in next banner? I'm a bit loss with warp's description.
Fyi (if needed ?) I just play HSR for around 3 weeks, TL 45. Currently have Gepard, D.Ratio, Welt, Asta, Lynx, Qinque, Natasha, and a few that I haven't used / build.
if you lost your 50/50 last time, then your next 5* will be featured character. If you pull your 5* star now, it will 100% Sparkle. On Acheron's banner this guarantee will stay and your next 5* will 100% be Acheron
17:55 This is why I personally am going Jingliu over Acheron as Fall of an Aeon is MUCH more accessible than GNSW. Not saying Acheron is trash though.
Her animations alone was the selling point for me but on further examination towards my profile, she is the hypercarry my second team needs to fully function effectively (Paired with Black Swan, Guin and a solo sustain)
i dope hope this style of nihility character remains as a really hard to build character compared to destruction hunt erudition i think it works well as a detriment to gaining extra kit effects you lose the ease of building them
Love your honesty. You have earned a sub from me
I personally think Nihility won’t be as strong as Harmony in amplifying dps damage, but they sure synergies with themself a lot, Acheron and DoT teams are basically that. Kinda like what Geo is in Genshin tbh. Other than that they will probably have specific utility tools so they don’t get completely sidelined by Harmony, like Luka’s and Pela’s dispel, SW implant, and Welt’s slow pseudo sustain.
Theoretically, if a DEF shred debuff reaches 100% then every attack becomes true damage. This means that every unit in the party can potentially become dps. I don't think it can be pulled easily as of the moment but I'm looking forward to this kind of true Nihility playstyle.
Love your intro, man! Haha!
Its a hard lesson to lean that pulling a super strong character doesnt mean you breaking the damage threshold youve been stuck at. Its the crazh amount of relic farming, eidolons and sometimes light cones it takes to break a damage block. All those are pulls, which mean time or money. Sure theres some added utility, but no single unit males you bad ass.
Im skipping her, as id need at least, at least 2 5 star (charector and cone) wins. Then months for just better then passable relics. Ive played since psn launch, amd im not cracking 20k single target damage on anyone. Ive fallen for that mindset of this character will change the game too many times.
The phrase "must pull" is kind of like those ads or salesmen saying things like "buy now!"
If you're dumb enough to fall for the hype it's your own fault for being gullible.
Guinaifen has a pretty strong but slow vulnerability application and is available for free from a 2.1 event, Acheron is in fact a complete team in one patch. Shes not a "must pull" or anything but shes very new player accessible provided you pull for her cone too. I would also like to say units like JL aren't as new player accessible as most think as their performance drops significantly without Bronya
I love the goddamn intro
Question but as someone who has a pretty new account (my only limited time 5 stars are black swan and ruan mei)
who should I in theory summon for?
I recommend Aventurine , a 5 star limited sustainer > any other character for new accounts
Kafka when she reruns, also Aventurine and Fu Xuan, the only two sustain you will ever need.
i played when acheron banner came out that was 28 days ago. now I'm at MOC 10. using 4* relic and traces at 7
This is likely the best take out there on the internet. Acheron is imo an S+ tier unit with some conditions attached. Those conditions were discussed in the video instead of being dismissed like other content creators.
She’s A tier at best
A character that’s restricted to 2 whale teams will never be S tier
She also has an EXTREMELY noticeable downtime, she hits like a wet noodle when not using her ult
I need more videos like this to kill the hype and save jades
100% was worth pulling for.
Genuinely respectfully great video
Neutral comment 👍
I agree. The only reason someone recommended me to pull for Acheron is because I have Pela, Silver Wolf, and Fire Trailblazer already built.
good points
at first I thought this is gonna be click bait, but you got a point tbh
Im going to make her my main on my alt account. My main already uses Seele,Kafka and Jingliu alot. Im trying to keep my dps different since I want to play them all. My alt is looking to mainly use Blade and Acheron and Ratio
inb4 some dude who didn't watch the video comments "well this didn't age well," 3 months after Ache's banner when hoyo drops an obligatory dedicated support for her
it's kinda spoiled already there will be a 5 star pela
Jianxing lmao
thank you for sharing this video. so many people are yelling about how acheron would be great, and sure, but a character with a completely new mechanics that's marketed as the brand new ultra unique super special dps? from what i've seen with other characters, i believe she's going to be extremely demanding when building. anyone can go ahead and pull and build her if they want, but i know my luck with drops and i know i'll end up extremely frustrated while trying to build her, so i'm not pulling. the many dps i have already made me want to pull my hair when farming relics. i'll stay away from her and focus on the units i already have for now.
Very nice and informative video. Gave good insights on the matter with unique perspectives! Was a very good watch, would recommend for sure
The timestamps aren't showing up in the video. Although that is because the words are too close to the numbers. Just press the spacebar once for each word per timestamp.
Fixed it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
@@Nuttyjuice01 No problem at all
Fire MC + Trend is meant to smooth out Acheron's ult charging to about the same as if you had her E2S1 + a single nihility (So 2 turn ults). Gallager doesn't apply debuffs when it's not his turn to my knowledge, so this isn't a great replacement.
I really like your nuanced take. After all these videos from content creators with strong opinions it's nice to listen to someone who is just giving arguments to consider. The fact Iyo called people lier in his thumbnail made me kind of upset and disappointed. If anything, it just proved that he didn't understood their arguments. No need to be so condescending.
I, personally, won't pull for her. I have Topaz E0S1 and every other character with a follow up mechanic, so Aventurine has WAY more value for my account. Also, Pela is the only debuffer I have. So even than, I would rather pull Kafka on her rerun and strengthen my already existing DoT team, instead of pulling for Acheron and having to build a completely new type of team from scratch.
Acheron has extreme potential, considering future Nihility characters to come, and she is save S+. But she needs so many things to reach her full potential, that it's just not worth it for some people. She is somewhat comparable to Dan Heng IL in that regard. And IL isn't a must pull either.
why yall acting like she needs a shit ton to work LMFAO. her literal best in slot is a free 4 star and u can run any other nihility for still very good results. or even a sparkle if u really dont want to run 2 nihilities. gallagher works as a sustain perfectly and he's 4 star. she's got quite a few options and much more room to grow. and mfs acting like needing a LC for "full potential" isnt every character. like sure, if u want to optimize, then yeah, her LC is really high priority. however, u dont need it for her to perform well. seen ppl use f2p setups for like 3 cycles in moc 12
Perfect response on the “freeing up harmony units” statement. That’s an incredibly illogical reason I can’t believe top creators said that.
I am a Day 1 F2P player, and my main focus was on Ice and Quantum teams. This strategy left me with some 7K jades left after pulling Sparkle E0S1. I am most probably skipping Acheron, she is very expensive for an F2P like me. I do like to pull for signature LCs, but this requires me to wait two patches before a pulling session can start. Else, I just do not have a guarantee, even then I need some luck, to win either 50/50 or 75/25. I will probably re-consider my decision if anyone who pulls Acheron and with mid-level relics and non-S5 GNSW can clear the MoC.
The intro was amazing and I agree with your point about mihoyo being smart. I mean look at the state of Hunt Fua teams right now yeah I’m looking at you Aventurine and Robin. I can’t even get mad at this obvious scam because I need them on my account so bad.
hes not talking a 0 cycle, iyo is talking from1-3 cycle because he doesnt desire to appeal to everyone that is more of a spender, i could be wrong, if iyo reacts then he would most likely say what he was saying
@Nutty the only reason im pulling for Acheron for any reason is just cause of her overworld farming technique, her making my run take from 4 hours to 30 minutes is enough for me to use the jades. But if i lose 50 50 i take the L and i wont roll more. As you said yourself we got Ratio. My premium Dot team is insane, and for my second team being a Selee or Ratio focused my account is pretty much The Shit.
Reasons why im not pulling for her
1. She’s nihility (my account has chosen the erudtion/destruction/harmony paths)
2. She’s lightning (already got my lightning dps with JY)
best take on acheron so far.
guys, just pull adventurine since you already have dr ratio. locuha is ok for sustain (i personally have been using him since 1.1 so i can vouch is comfortable to play). i would recommend have a 1 shielder (fu or aven) and have 1 sustain (loucha or huo huo, but if you use acheron then you pribs have gallaghar at which point i would say, dont pull for any other 5 star healer)
as for acheron, pull her (i understand the lightcone situation and if you're worried about that then skip, if you're worried about the nihility thing then lemme tell smthng : gallaghar+pela+acheron=3 debuffs x2 since 2 turns in 1 cycle [with 134 speed which you will eventuallly get if you wanna progress your account]+ 1-2 breaks + sparkle to help with sp and crit and dmg% bonus which means you dont have to run 2 nihility, also that mean acheron goes 3 times in 1 cycle which means all this is enough for her ult which deletes everything and if the 1st ult doesnt kill everything the second will meaning 2 cycles which is still pretty good. yes, im assuming you either have e4 pela or reso with high eff hit rate, sorry if that aint relatable)
as a jingliu enjoyer, you pull for her but the thing is if you have acheron+ you alr have a free dr ratio, then i think you're account in terms of dps chars is pretty much done (atleast for moc, also guanaifen is another debuffer you could use who is good espicially with gallaghar becuase you can detonate his dots). jingliu is easier to build than acheron but acheron will only get better with future chars (i had a dream) which may/may not synergise with jingliu
if you want a team than will be good tiill the end time, you should've just pulled dot lol (not tryna be toxic). fua teams are also pretty good in sustainability of your account( which you can still pull for with a free dr ratio, aven coming after acheron and topaz coming any time in the near future)
however if you alr have a built acc like me, pull whoever you want man, and if you wanna main them go all out (by that i mean take risk on weapon banners and shit). me personally, i want acheron since that f2p team i mentioned do be looking kinda nutty (i have s1 GNSW but i want it for kafka + sig is too good) but i also wanna pull aventurine because his kit looks fun + i dont have shielder so i die easily in swarm+golden gears (yea im stuck all the way there lol, but i can clear moc 12 which is why i said my acc is built lol)
thanks for listening to me yapping
i wonder if i shoudl pukk acrerons lightcone? first light cone pulled was sparkles, and that was only becuase had drec for harmony lightcones.... but im guessing archeron so popular her lightcone will probbaly come back fast?
Ive been so torn between who to pull in this new update bc I really want Gallagher and Adventurine. But of course Gallagher is only on Loucha and Acheron, so I need to pull on them to get it... and I also kinda want Loucha but then thats two abundance character to level up. AND THEN I happen to have like ALL the nihility characters so like Acheron would probably actually be really good for my account....and then theres freaking Jingliu whos stupidly good, and like I dont have any good offensive Ice types XD
Hoyo really decided to say good fucking luck to my account XD
Acheron is awesome but I don't think I will pull for her because I haven't really finished building my current teams but I might go for Jingliu light cone on her rerun.
I was insanely lucky and got her in 20 pulls, but honestly, I was going for Gallagher. Im saving my Stellar Jades to E6 my fav Serval
Fire MC should be the best pick, Trend of Universal Market allows for Acheron talent saturation. She gets one stack per enemy/ally turn debuff, fire MC taunts on his/her turn adding stack, and forces all enemies to add one stack too, other 2 teammates generate 1 per each respective turn too, and acheron herself does so with skill. It should actually be insane, technically cannot get better without her lightcone. Also you can play harmony units with her at E0, I think sparkle + pela is optimal, since harmony are so strong they can offset Acheron trace. So to sum up, If you are a normal player and u pulled for Sparkle and built your Pela, as everyone should, there is only fire MC to build, realistically just throw your FuXuan gear on MC and you are good to go.
I just wanted to point out that fire MC needs some EHR to function, don't remember exactly how much though.
Very good takes my man. She is very restrictive right now and mihoyo very well know this Raiden expy will help them sell any future "synergy".
That was very valid
I really like the intro
Subbed half a minute in. Lmaoooo
Acheron technique simulated universe S tier meta
I have multiple thoughts on this... so this is long.
Question: I don't have Luocha. Should I pull him or Acheron LC?
Question 2: I've heard that Gallagher's ULT might work better for Acheron, is this true?
That was a FUNNY intro, I was laughing so hard
I failed the Sparkle pulls, so I'm gonna start downplaying my DHIL team (since I only have Hanya).
Which means that I only have Kafka DPS team... without a Ruan Mei. So i'm screwed with other weaknesses than Lightning and Wind...
Acheron: I have universal break-
Me: COME HERE QUEEN- Wait... you may need your sig LC? Oh boi...
As a F2P, I'm pretty concerned with my future. Boothill is (hottake incoming) lookin pretty good imo, and I would like to have him (although he does appear during my internship start, so I might be too drained irl to play hsr for a while), Robin came out as a physical harmony, and we still have so many 2.#s to use for potential other characters, like Sam or Firefly.
Also yeah I honestly stopped looking at YT for Acheron content cause of rising leak issues... but then I saw this and was geninuinely curious.
TYSM FOR THE VIDEO, THIS ACTUALLY HELPED
Loving Acheron animations but my ice unit yan qing probably needs to be replaced 😭. + Plus Jing Yuan needs his teacher
Since I just started she looks like a good damager and I need a character that is able to hit all targets and do damage.