The short and easy answer is fighting games aren't fun when you don't know what you're doing. Learning to know what you're doing isn't fun either (for the majority of gamers). The people who do find learning fun and don't mind learning before having fun are already playing the game or playing another game with similar requirements. The other genres of games that have this problem are also niche. If you ask someone do they want to spend 100s of hours learning a game to have fun or play a game that's fun immediately and learn the intricacies over time, they're gonna choose the latter.
Exactly why I'm Quitting tekken SF6 doesn't require me to learn everything before i play i can learn by just playing and when i lose i typically know why unlike tekken, where i must know all the frame data, when to duck and side step. And all match ups
@@jaikuu1207 the same multiplayer rips your desire to play tekken. You can learn whatever the F gives you the combo challenge, arcade quest or even story mode, but that knowledge is 0.000001% in multiplayer.
@jaikuu1207 update: I've taken a long break, but I will come back. Again, learning isn't per say the problem it's the fact that you LIKELY won't win most matches without information whereas other games you can figure it out mid match more seamlessly.
Losing in fighting games is your best lesson. I've lost a lot of matches to get good. Sure it's discouraging and you don't want to play that game ever again but you learn from defeats and understand why you lost and then make sure you don't lose again. Fighting games are hard but very rewarding once you get the basic.
Its not self evident how to learn from defeats. Most people dont know why they lost or how to meaningfully improve following a loss. Losing in fighting games is not your best lesson. Learning why you lost and learning how to prevent it in the future is, but most players dont have the tools or knowledge to do that.
You learn nothing if nobody tells you why you lost. Also, i wan't to win now, not in the next 12 months. Stop defending your gatekeeper bs about learning in this game
I think the biggest hurdle for new players is that fighting games tend to be so very focused on the competitive element that the only thing they get to do is lose. It's good advice as far as it goes to say "don't worry about winning" but most people can't actually tolerate spending fifty hours being somebody's training dummy online. Unlike a shooter where you can at least blunder into the occasional headshot or something by sheer beginners luck, or a moba where you can at least attack a tower or try to fight a dragon or something, in a Fighting game all there is to do is 1v1 matchups....which a new player of course will lose 90% of the time.
I think curating the progression of learning a character can help a lot. Level 1 character is using these 5 moves, 1 Bnb, 1 block string, etc. Once comfortable then move to level 2.
It's pretty rare to find these kind of tiered guides for your character but man I love them. Makes you feel a lot more comfortable not knowing everything at the beginning and then makes it feel a lot more feasible to focus on one or two things at a time. Honestly in game tutorials ALWAYS drop the ball with set play and oki style characters because they never bother to teach you what to do once you knock them down or how to even just set up the set play. Then combo guides won't teach you that. Etc. Like that's the whole point of the character. And a lot of guides and info will just gloss over it or not even address it.
“…and with Tekken 8 right around the corner…” Haha sir when was this filmed? But I do think accessibility has been a major help in onboarding people into the FGC recently. Btw, and chance on a Yoshimitsu guide w/ Kaneandtrench? :)
The Replay takeover feature in Tekken 8 is amazing, one of the best features I've ever played in a fighting game. Just loading into a replay and getting to re-do certain segments over again, without all the mental/emotional baggage of anxiety or pressure and whatnot and just learning stuff and what you can do better is one of the best things ever. I lost to "some total bs", but after loading into that replay it just always surprises me how simple it actually was to counter, the game outright tells you what you could do better. Absolute game-changer for me, helps so much with my mental state in getting better with the game.
7:25 interesting how when talking about how tekken prepares the new player you dont mention arcade quest, but instead the story line. arcade quest is really the mode you should have talked about. you go from arcade to arcade, battling more difficult opponents while max teaches you core mechanics. like, this seems to be a big oversight, did yall not play the arcade quest in tekken 8?
I feel like tutorials can also help turn players off from continuing to try. I'm trying to get into Injustice 2 and the tutorial gets more on my nerves when the "difficulty" of it is use this mechanic with a long arse combo. One, it can be a bit annoying just to memorise the thing, but it can also just be confusing as to what I'm doing wrong. The precision adjustment can be so slight that it feels more luck based when I hit rather than understanding what to do and when. Environmental combos I struggle timing and that god damn jump in combo with Batman. The demo function also doesn't exactly help as I'm juggling either watching the game or the inputs, which just ends up being distracting. Something that could help is a timer, as that's usually the thing I struggle with as of now. Which is something Injustice 2 has when you're doing basic combos, but nothing else. Like cheers, you helped me time 1,1,2 but then go "good luck" with 2, 2, 4, back 2, 2, 3, 4, forward 2, 3. And then I'm suck trying to figure out how to correct my timing on jump in 2, 2, 2, 3, jump in 2, 1, 2, 3, back 2, 3 with no clue how much I'm supposed to adjust.
riots fighting game will be a new era of fighting games. a game built on basically 'modern' controls for SF, people get frustrated when they know what moves they want to do and cant do it or just dont know what to do so they just do 2 jabs. i think it will grow the FGC by over 100%
Video games that force you to accept losing is very very common. What we really need is more free fighting games Think about it. Fortnite and pubg are very popular because people gave it a chance by actually purchasing the game for $0 and half the time when it turns bad it's literally free and you can delete it. There are literally just 6 fighting games in the ps5 library excluding subscriptions. And half of these aren't really fitting to the genre Free games allow players to get a taste on the actual genre before they start committing by actually buying a title. And brawlhalla has a spamming problem, fantasy strike has terrible free offline and not much of actual fighting game mechanics in it, and doa5 is a 3d fighter that is drastically different from literally everything else. People aren't getting the right taste and they feel scammed when they purchase something $70 and wasn't what they expected And people have never seen a fighting game with assists, meter building, or even motion inputs sometimes
From my experience fighting games are just fundamentally flawed for the average casual player and are gate kept by design. They don’t provide the understanding for where you are or where to go they don’t have an objective goal outside of push this button and win learning is not fun. The controls are hard to learn and master the players are too experienced. The net code and online functionality is bad the time commitment is long. Just not a very good experience in general outside of a few examples. You can argue get good but the walls are simply to high to get good for the average person playing and are actively discouraged for getting good by playing the game.
The hardest part about fighting games is the 1 on 1 combined with the mechanical depth. I can't recommend my friends my fav genre because I'd beat them with little ease. If it was a team game I could carry them and if not we'll lose together If it didnt have a lot of mechanical skill we could just chill way more, think chess or civilization
the problem of fighting game and especially Tekken series, that's no mechanic game explain, no fundamental tutorial, how game system work explain, and all is nope, until you go to somewhere like TH-cam, where there's some guys by somehow understand those problem and teach you, for Tekken, until Tekken 8, there was no actually tutorial system, they throw you into training area with yummy, and let you do whatever you want, you don't know the character moveset called "command training", you don't know what is "tornado" when check some command after you found it, and you try some combo sample, you can't perform it, and nobody tell you where you failed, even no demo for it, you keep failing combo and gradually feel boring, and you try some match with bot, easy bot would beat your ass out, or you smashing button for win, until the final boss, you messed up, reattempt many times and finally you won it, and you quit, no play fighting game anymore, it's boring af, that's me when tried Tekken 7, it's change when I play Tekken 8, I knew some term to learn what mechanic game called "fundamental" instead "game system", there's arcade mode where they explain you step by step how to play, and training area have some fun like "combo challenge", "punish practice", and I finally know what's command where it teach you character moveset, I learned new things and keep learning new thing that I finally UNDERSTAND, and that's when I don't see learning fighting game is something bullshit and hard anymore, losing matches is very interesting because new replay mode will teach you what to do in some situations, they tell you where you failed
If ppl are crying over fighting games being hard, when we have had two disabled players be some what known and have skill as a result. Then you have to play anther genre or start learning. Too many ppl that just want instant gratification these days with no effort involved.
except the other was actually doing a job alongside. so what's your excuse now. Nice glorification of not wanting to improve as well as insulting the lives of both of them.@@Daniel-kx3zz
@@Tenebris8444 Insulting how? They would do something else if it wasn't by that problem, you know. "Too many ppl that just want instant gratification these days with no effort involved." Yeah too many, enough people to just ignore the game and make companies abandon this genre. And yeah, i don't want to improve in "Just a game" when i can use that time to get better in a real life skill or having true fun at the beginning, not going the hard path for months just for "an anti-air".
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [TEASER MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VC689EgdSIw/mqdefault.jpg)
Tell us about your fighting game journey, where did you start, what pulled you in, and what were the biggest hardships along the way?
The short and easy answer is fighting games aren't fun when you don't know what you're doing. Learning to know what you're doing isn't fun either (for the majority of gamers). The people who do find learning fun and don't mind learning before having fun are already playing the game or playing another game with similar requirements.
The other genres of games that have this problem are also niche. If you ask someone do they want to spend 100s of hours learning a game to have fun or play a game that's fun immediately and learn the intricacies over time, they're gonna choose the latter.
Exactly why I'm Quitting tekken SF6 doesn't require me to learn everything before i play i can learn by just playing and when i lose i typically know why unlike tekken, where i must know all the frame data, when to duck and side step. And all match ups
@@Fanatic.....1you don't need to know all of that to play tekken. You just have to want to play. It's hard bit pls keep learning
@@jaikuu1207 the same multiplayer rips your desire to play tekken. You can learn whatever the F gives you the combo challenge, arcade quest or even story mode, but that knowledge is 0.000001% in multiplayer.
@jaikuu1207 update: I've taken a long break, but I will come back. Again, learning isn't per say the problem it's the fact that you LIKELY won't win most matches without information whereas other games you can figure it out mid match more seamlessly.
Losing in fighting games is your best lesson. I've lost a lot of matches to get good. Sure it's discouraging and you don't want to play that game ever again but you learn from defeats and understand why you lost and then make sure you don't lose again. Fighting games are hard but very rewarding once you get the basic.
Its not self evident how to learn from defeats. Most people dont know why they lost or how to meaningfully improve following a loss. Losing in fighting games is not your best lesson. Learning why you lost and learning how to prevent it in the future is, but most players dont have the tools or knowledge to do that.
Plus I watch my old replays to see what I did wrong
You learn nothing if nobody tells you why you lost. Also, i wan't to win now, not in the next 12 months. Stop defending your gatekeeper bs about learning in this game
Or you feel like an inept loser cause you don't understand why you lost and leave on a sour note.
what is your point? thinking you're superior cos you play fighting games?
I think the biggest hurdle for new players is that fighting games tend to be so very focused on the competitive element that the only thing they get to do is lose. It's good advice as far as it goes to say "don't worry about winning" but most people can't actually tolerate spending fifty hours being somebody's training dummy online. Unlike a shooter where you can at least blunder into the occasional headshot or something by sheer beginners luck, or a moba where you can at least attack a tower or try to fight a dragon or something, in a Fighting game all there is to do is 1v1 matchups....which a new player of course will lose 90% of the time.
I think curating the progression of learning a character can help a lot. Level 1 character is using these 5 moves, 1 Bnb, 1 block string, etc. Once comfortable then move to level 2.
It's pretty rare to find these kind of tiered guides for your character but man I love them. Makes you feel a lot more comfortable not knowing everything at the beginning and then makes it feel a lot more feasible to focus on one or two things at a time.
Honestly in game tutorials ALWAYS drop the ball with set play and oki style characters because they never bother to teach you what to do once you knock them down or how to even just set up the set play. Then combo guides won't teach you that. Etc. Like that's the whole point of the character. And a lot of guides and info will just gloss over it or not even address it.
What makes fighting games hard for me is accepting losses and learning from them
that makes it also fun to play
“…and with Tekken 8 right around the corner…”
Haha sir when was this filmed?
But I do think accessibility has been a major help in onboarding people into the FGC recently.
Btw, and chance on a Yoshimitsu guide w/ Kaneandtrench? :)
The Replay takeover feature in Tekken 8 is amazing, one of the best features I've ever played in a fighting game. Just loading into a replay and getting to re-do certain segments over again, without all the mental/emotional baggage of anxiety or pressure and whatnot and just learning stuff and what you can do better is one of the best things ever. I lost to "some total bs", but after loading into that replay it just always surprises me how simple it actually was to counter, the game outright tells you what you could do better.
Absolute game-changer for me, helps so much with my mental state in getting better with the game.
7:25 interesting how when talking about how tekken prepares the new player you dont mention arcade quest, but instead the story line. arcade quest is really the mode you should have talked about. you go from arcade to arcade, battling more difficult opponents while max teaches you core mechanics. like, this seems to be a big oversight, did yall not play the arcade quest in tekken 8?
I played and it was useless. Wrecked a lot since the first time and the last time i stepped on ranked
I feel like tutorials can also help turn players off from continuing to try. I'm trying to get into Injustice 2 and the tutorial gets more on my nerves when the "difficulty" of it is use this mechanic with a long arse combo.
One, it can be a bit annoying just to memorise the thing, but it can also just be confusing as to what I'm doing wrong. The precision adjustment can be so slight that it feels more luck based when I hit rather than understanding what to do and when. Environmental combos I struggle timing and that god damn jump in combo with Batman. The demo function also doesn't exactly help as I'm juggling either watching the game or the inputs, which just ends up being distracting.
Something that could help is a timer, as that's usually the thing I struggle with as of now. Which is something Injustice 2 has when you're doing basic combos, but nothing else. Like cheers, you helped me time 1,1,2 but then go "good luck" with 2, 2, 4, back 2, 2, 3, 4, forward 2, 3. And then I'm suck trying to figure out how to correct my timing on jump in 2, 2, 2, 3, jump in 2, 1, 2, 3, back 2, 3 with no clue how much I'm supposed to adjust.
riots fighting game will be a new era of fighting games. a game built on basically 'modern' controls for SF, people get frustrated when they know what moves they want to do and cant do it or just dont know what to do so they just do 2 jabs. i think it will grow the FGC by over 100%
Tekken 8 around the corner?:
Video games that force you to accept losing is very very common. What we really need is more free fighting games
Think about it. Fortnite and pubg are very popular because people gave it a chance by actually purchasing the game for $0 and half the time when it turns bad it's literally free and you can delete it. There are literally just 6 fighting games in the ps5 library excluding subscriptions. And half of these aren't really fitting to the genre
Free games allow players to get a taste on the actual genre before they start committing by actually buying a title. And brawlhalla has a spamming problem, fantasy strike has terrible free offline and not much of actual fighting game mechanics in it, and doa5 is a 3d fighter that is drastically different from literally everything else.
People aren't getting the right taste and they feel scammed when they purchase something $70 and wasn't what they expected
And people have never seen a fighting game with assists, meter building, or even motion inputs sometimes
How some people play so fast, when i hit they block it every time and when they hit they always got me i need help
I love the repley system in tekken 8 it gives me great infight what i should improve on ^_^
Bro you gotta tell me what part of the south you're from lol. Don't see a lot of fellow southerners talking fighting games like this
From my experience fighting games are just fundamentally flawed for the average casual player and are gate kept by design. They don’t provide the understanding for where you are or where to go they don’t have an objective goal outside of push this button and win learning is not fun. The controls are hard to learn and master the players are too experienced. The net code and online functionality is bad the time commitment is long. Just not a very good experience in general outside of a few examples. You can argue get good but the walls are simply to high to get good for the average person playing and are actively discouraged for getting good by playing the game.
The hardest part about fighting games is the 1 on 1 combined with the mechanical depth.
I can't recommend my friends my fav genre because I'd beat them with little ease.
If it was a team game I could carry them and if not we'll lose together
If it didnt have a lot of mechanical skill we could just chill way more, think chess or civilization
the problem of fighting game and especially Tekken series, that's no mechanic game explain, no fundamental tutorial, how game system work explain, and all is nope, until you go to somewhere like TH-cam, where there's some guys by somehow understand those problem and teach you, for Tekken, until Tekken 8, there was no actually tutorial system, they throw you into training area with yummy, and let you do whatever you want, you don't know the character moveset called "command training", you don't know what is "tornado" when check some command after you found it, and you try some combo sample, you can't perform it, and nobody tell you where you failed, even no demo for it, you keep failing combo and gradually feel boring, and you try some match with bot, easy bot would beat your ass out, or you smashing button for win, until the final boss, you messed up, reattempt many times and finally you won it, and you quit, no play fighting game anymore, it's boring af, that's me when tried Tekken 7, it's change when I play Tekken 8, I knew some term to learn what mechanic game called "fundamental" instead "game system", there's arcade mode where they explain you step by step how to play, and training area have some fun like "combo challenge", "punish practice", and I finally know what's command where it teach you character moveset, I learned new things and keep learning new thing that I finally UNDERSTAND, and that's when I don't see learning fighting game is something bullshit and hard anymore, losing matches is very interesting because new replay mode will teach you what to do in some situations, they tell you where you failed
If ppl are crying over fighting games being hard, when we have had two disabled players be some what known and have skill as a result.
Then you have to play anther genre or start learning.
Too many ppl that just want instant gratification these days with no effort involved.
one of those disabled players is dead and the lives of both are based in just that fighting game because that disability cornered them
except the other was actually doing a job alongside. so what's your excuse now.
Nice glorification of not wanting to improve as well as insulting the lives of both of them.@@Daniel-kx3zz
@@Tenebris8444 Insulting how? They would do something else if it wasn't by that problem, you know.
"Too many ppl that just want instant gratification these days with no effort involved." Yeah too many, enough people to just ignore the game and make companies abandon this genre. And yeah, i don't want to improve in "Just a game" when i can use that time to get better in a real life skill or having true fun at the beginning, not going the hard path for months just for "an anti-air".
so why bother inputting then... go do that real life amazing skill??? you just sound like an emotional kid rn@@Daniel-kx3zz
Brother, ain't nobody trying to spend 100+ hours on a fighting game.☠️