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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Fighting Games are notoriously hard to get into, but I get the feeling that Devs are starting to really get the hang of making them accessible and fun! I put a lot of new tools to work in this video so I hope you enjoy! If there's any examples I missed, please let me know down below!
Follow me on Twitter: / qmanchu1797
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Additional Sources and Readings:
coreyhobson.medium.com/levelling-up-onboarding-creating-seamless-player-experiences-in-game-ux-c36d98eac304
arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/11/interview-with-guilty-gear-creator-daisuke-ishiwatari/
Woolie Interview: • Guilty Gear Strive: Da...
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
03:45 - Combo Counters
07:28 - Counter Hits
12:54 - Punishes
15:35 - The Future - เกม
![แข่งแลกของ 1 วัน!! ของใครแพงสุดชนะ!! [Ver.2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/joRT59ilPHg/mqdefault.jpg)
quick note. that standard ewgf combo is actually a PEWGF and is a 1 frame link using a just frame EWGF inputted in 13 frames. It was the first recorded instance of it being used in tournament and even today very few people can do that.
oh yeah, I don't want it to seem like it's "easy" by any means. Just that games have evolved pretty far from what they used to be and that's a beautiful thing!
@@qmanchu just pointing it out. Great video Im developing an FG myself and this information is very useful. You've earned a like and a sub and some free comment section engagement.
@SHOTO28 oh wow! If you like this one and are a dev, I'd appreciate some feedback on some of the others in this Playlist on similar topics. I've gotten lots of feedback that it's helpful for devs actually. I appreciate the support
@@qmanchu I'd be delighted. I think the genre is growing in the right direction and the more ammo the better.
@@qmanchuyou picked a combo with 3 'one frame links' so to speak and called it a pretty standard combo.
It's also not easier in Tekken 8 than Tekken 5 so doesn't help your point either
Devs telling me when something is a punish or not is something we needed 10 years ago. It's bringing people back to actually playing the game rather than pulling up their phones and looking at a frame data app or spending time in training mode testing each move.
SFV was my first experience that was like that and I used the frame data on the CFN website. That experience sucked for learning how to dive deep in a game
Every game should have an in-game version of the Fighting Game Glossary
It's surprising how many do now! SF6, GBVSR, and, GGST all have it in some form now. Idk about Tekken tho cuz I haven't played it yet
@@qmanchu
It's not comprehensive, but at least there is a "Help" feature in Tekken 8's move list which explains all inputs, and the Arcade Quest mode teaches you most of the basics of the game itself.
Soulcalibur III had an in-game glossary in its tutorial mode, which it ALSO had.
@@qmanchu yeah I read it And it was rad to see That They used community Terms In official games made me smile
I spotted that Core-A-Gaming reference
👀
The bit at the end that basically said that all of these changes have the goal of getting a player to say, "Just one more round," rather than giving up or rage quitting really resonated with me. To me a lot of fighting games fail at achieving that and are difficult to approach because of it. If you can't recognized what you did wrong or what you could have done better its easy to say the game is BS and quit. Learning fighting games with no prior experience is extremely difficult. You have to be extremely invested from the beginning to want to reverse engineer how to play it and then also somehow figure it out enough to get good at it.
By making more information easily accessible it reduces the skill gap in fighting games by getting players over that initial learning curve and then also getting them into the mindset of being curious about a solution rather than frustrated at a problem.
Great video!
Qmanchu: (Testing me on the combos shown at the beginning of the video) So what do you remember?
Me: chipmunk Ryu at 0:26
"check the combo counter." **Blurs the screen to an unreadable degree**
1:30 ain’t no way this man just downplayed a pewgf combo as “pretty standard”
He does pewgf for breakfast
This is so ignorant ong
using the footage of that one game journalist failing at cuphead tho
He will never live that down
COUNTER!
A friend of mine picked up Strive with me on release day, and the first thing he noticed that really stood out to him was the obvious, in your face nature of the counter hit mechanic.
That and the combo counter are obnoxious. Between them neutering most everything I liked about the previous games and adding that stupid wall break, the visuals were just the cherry on top . Strive is for the birds
I'm a noob, but I recently started learning Rev 2 (Venom) and one thing I realized after practicing some combos was that sometimes, the last hit on my combo counter would go gray instead of orange. When I noticed this, I realized that my timing had probably been a bit off, so I needed to be a little faster in order to make it a true combo.
I recommend changing the recovery settings so they air tech. The grey just means the combo connected but they could’ve teched out of it.
While I certainly have my problems with Fantasy Strike, one of the cool things it did that I wish some (not all) fighting games would learn from was how it handled communicating frame data. In FS, every time a move is blocked it, like many games, has a visual effect that appears on the characters to help differentiate the "this move was blocked" animations from the "this move hit" animations. But what FS also does is go a step further by making the color and size of that visual effect communicate to both players whether a move was plus or minus on block, and by how much. Obviously, some games benefit a lot from frame data being more ambiguous, but in a game as intentionally straight forward as FS, its a really cool feature to remove that degree of guesswork and knowledge-checks from the game, so players can skip directly to making an informed decision on how to respond.
Just wanted to add an example of a way I've seen games address this idea of using clear communication to demystify fighting games and make the early onboarding process smoother that isn't necessarily reducing the mechanical complexity of the genre (although Fantasy Strike does its fair share of that as well.)
I love Fantasy Strike. The game did so many things right. Even the yomi throw system was genius. I wish it still got support because it could've changed FGs as we know em
It's even mentioned in one of the character videos!
Never mind the updates made some of these videos obsolete (Rook for one!)
Too bad it was ugly, the RNG shop sucked and Sirlin deflected most criticism.
Could've been a nice game otherwise.
@@qmanchu I'd rather sit through strive than play... fantasy strike ew
Slight pushback on the strive counter hit thing - tekken, sfv, soul calibur, and blazblue all had obvious counter hit markers without being absurd with extreme slow downs and text covering the whole screen. I’d also argue that a system like that definitely reduces the mechanical skill in counter hit confirming which isn’t a strict positive or negative, but definitely affects the game more than just being nice signposting. Good stuff though
Me: was able to point out the weird moment in the Third Strike combo.
I KNEW IT!
Also me: not very good at fighting games
Lmao I'm glad you caught it! I myself struggled to catch it while playing which made me notice it in the first place
It has been great to see fighters taking other steps to get people into them and better prepare them for untangling all the complexities within. This video mostly focuses on changes to UI, which is absolutely huge of course, but there's also just way better tutorials and training modes now. You can have a dedicated mode where you can learn what a character's moves do rather than have to investigate elsewhere. Being able to swap your buttons to match the console buttons rather than just "LP, HP, Slash, etc." is a gigantic quality of life thing that still isn't standard. Between stuff like that and Tekken 8's replay system teaching you punishes and letting you take control of replays to lab stuff out, there's never been more tools to help you improve.
Obviously there will always be gaps between pros and newcomers, but providing better clarity of what's happening on screen and more tools to push deeper and learn the game are really appreciated. I really like the counter hits in Strive for that reason, even if I still struggle with counter-hit specific routes.
Great points!
This is actually a cool video but, there's something I'd like to note something about the changes to the counter hit system in Guilty Gear Strive compared to older games. When it comes to counter hits in Guilty Gear Strive they want combo conversion-ability from the scenario to be easier and lead to an overall higher damage game but, in an example like Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R (GGAC+R), it is more reserved for reads because let's be honest, basically nobody is going to react to a little counter hit notification off of a stray move in the heat of the moment and be able to hit their most devastating combo in that situation. In our GGAC+R example it pushes the player to think more about whether or not they are sure they're going to get a counter hit and what the other person is going to try doing because going for that counter hit is a commitment. If you didn't land the counter hit, you missed out on potential damage from a more standard combo but, if you knew you were going to land the counter hit then your commitment payed off. These seemingly small decisions in game design lead to after effects of game flow, prioritization, strategy, and more.
I'm so glad I stumbled onto this video. I also think that improving game feedback for both successes and failures is the key to make games more accessible.
Pretty standerd electric combo, shows a PEWGF one of the hardest things in tekken.
You hit 3 frame perfect directional inputs after waiting 40 frames or so...
This was grand finals at a tournament.
Doing that 10/10 times today is 0.0001% of players.
Are you gatekeeping or do you not know how hard that is
I chose my words poorly in what I meant to illustrate, I've owned that lol
While rumble on counter sounds cool on paper it kinda excludes people who dont play on pad.
Sure but realistically, who cares? If more and more people are playing on pad as years go on, it kinda just makes sense to utilize it.
@@qmanchu Not saying its a bad feature. Just that i prefer a more universal feedback. I pay kof on keyboard of all things and most of the time i cant tell when my hit is a counter-hit. And i dont have the same issues in other modern fighters.
Love the bit about the Punish message. It's wild to me that the game that needed it the most imo (Tekken) completely omits it (and even the combo counter sometimes).
if i recall, Killer Instinct 2013 actually added a punish pop-up a little way into its lifetime! i remember thinking "oh that's a really clever thing to add, i'll be actually kinda good at this game" and it's probably my favorite HUD addition to fighting games as a whole. it's a great way to learn in real-time and know it's real, if that makes sense
Oh maybe! I haven't played KI like at all
@@qmanchu KI2013 is a hell of a game, honestly a trailblazer in so many different regards (crossplay, dev feedback with patches, interesting single-player experience, a rare example of a fairly solid F2P system)
1:30 That "standard ewgf combo" is actually a pewgf combo which requires you to do a 13 frame electric by inputting 3 frame perfect inputs in succession (+ a just frame combination) to get the high launch after df2. It is not standard even today.
I was waiting for a new video like this so I could flippantly say "old game better because less information gg shake my hand"
I was so ready to dismiss the video when I saw the fake Ryu combo so I am glad I kept watching lmao
Amazing video as always. Keep up the good work bro
Excellent video!! Very informative & thought provoking, And i agree with everything said in this video...nice ED by the way
Another great video, I love hearing people's perspectives on this topic
Great Video. Punish Counter is one od ny favorite mechanics in any fighting game.
Loved it! Thanks for the video!
Diego el beast
Excellent video. I really liked how you covered the recent history of developments.
14:20 it wasn't punish counter, but KI has had the punishment popup since 2013
I’ve been harping on sound ques and visuals painting a picture and giving more credence to “play by feel” for sometime now, great video as always brotha!
Many thanks! This one took more out of me than usual to make. lots of rewrites and extra editing but I'm glad people like it.
Blazblue also has good counter hit prompts. “Fatal!” “Counter!”
Yep and the color flash on fatal counters made them very easy to confirm! Great example
That Ryan hart combo still gets that reaction to this day it is very difficult idk if that was the best example but the rest of the video was great
Yeah I did not word what I was trying to say well at all lol
@@qmanchu it's cool ur improving at making videos w every post keep it up man
Best "new" channel in the FGC. Been with you for a hot minute, and you're getting better and better. Keep breaking this stuff down into digestible nuggets.
Also, bonus Internet points for Dracula Flow interlude
Lmao I appreciate it man!
This was a very informative video to watch, especially for someone who is still trying to get their head around Fighting Games. I never really got into them growing up, and started when I was already an adult and felt a little late on the boat. I started with KoF13 (Quite the deep end for a new player), then later moved to SkullGirls and Street Fighter 5. It was a struggle however, I could barely get two moves to link! it wasn't until I tried MK11 that I really started to understand what was going on. MK11 was the first Fighter I tried that had Frame Data, Strings and other essential information in-game that are honestly hard to grasp when you just have a friend trying to explain them to you.
Today, I play or even just watch Street Fighter 6 with my friends and can actually understand everything going on. Granted, I still struggle to actually DO the things I'm seeing, but I'm glad to have had a game help me understand what's going on instead of relying on trial-and-error. I look forward now to enjoying this genre and seeing it develop.
Keep up your great work!
You too! Fighting Games Are something so great! I'm glad you enjoyed and seriously, thanks for watching
What’s funny to me about the counter hit slow-down in GGST is that for a long time, I thought the slow-down put *everything* to a halt, including inputs. I had no clue it gave frame advantage and thought it was just for dramatic effect. On top of that, I didn’t even know what frame advantage was, so I was extremely confused when I saw people listing that parts of their combos were done on counter. I was like, “…okay? And on normal hits too, right…?”
That was incredibly well done keep up the good content
Wow that means a lot coming from royalty! Thanks a lot lol
We aren't shaving away a level of depth, we're just removing most characters gimmicks, or, if they're lucky, just gutting their gimmicks! Not simplifying! Removing!
Removing character gimmicks and you have the game footsies. Literally 1 arche type of character. All characters have gimmicks.
I play a character that has a lot of gimmicks, but there all easily beatable by a simple jab. The skill is not gimmicking someone to death, because that is just a knowledge check and you will get blown up at higher levels.
It's taking part of her kit that is "real" and doing a mix up, through conditioning and pressure. Then sliding in the fake stuff to catch them slipping.
Yea this a bad opinion. Idk What you call gimmicks but games “simplifying” characters is removing depth and player expression. As the dark souls crowd always says “get gud”
My opinion on modern fighting games:
The move toward easily accessible frame data, comprehensive training mode features, counter/punish counter and all that other juicy stuff making fighting games less and less esoteric = *GOOD*
Easy execution, combos requiring very little timing or precision, shortcut motions for everything, high damage you didn't earn, super animations that are cutscenes (awesome the first few times, not so much the 100th) and LONG combos that you just have to sit through and wait till it's your turn to play again = *BAD*
I feel like the best part about feedback is that, despite the video title, I don't think it actually reduces the skill gap but rather the skill floor: it makes it way easier to learn and get into the game, but eventually you'll reach a level where a lot of it will become a non-factor because you don't need the indicator to identify a situation anymore, while stuff that does reduce the skill gap like making the input buffer more lenient matters at basically every level. Feedback makes it way easier to learn fighting games without sacrificing basically any depth whatsoever, and I'm of the opinion that they should push it even further with stuff like actual blocking animations when holding back to make it clear how you block, or visual frame data indication (which ftr a couple of games do have but it's far from the norm)
The way I see it, reducing the distance between the floor and the ceiling IS reducing the gap.
But yeah exactly what you mentioned about blocking. People DO NOT block for like the first few dozen hours of a game. Which is insane considering that it's an integral part of the game
@@qmanchu the skill gap refers to how high the odds are of a better player winning against a worse player, with a fixed difference in skill between them. Reducing the skill gap means the worse player is given better odds at beating the better player even though their difference in skill stays the same, but what feedback does is give the worse player better learning tools to shorten that difference in skill instead of having the odds improved by the devs, the actual skill difference/odds of winning scale stays in the same place. At least to me that's how it works but maybe we have different definitions
@fatyoshi696 yeah it kinda just seems like a semantic issue at the end of it lol. I've seen it defined both ways depending on the types of games described
No, he's absolutely right to call it that way. It's not just affecting UI, strive slowing down on counter hits means the skill of hit confirming (fundemental skill) becomes a non-factor, or a small one. This means less skill expression, so even if I might have that skill, it doesn't really matter if someone new or old doesn't have it. It is reducing the gap. This stuff can be applied to a lot of things like damage output as well, even the developer Daisuke says this part.
Developers always say that they "reduced the complexity of the game but kept the depth" and it's almost always not the case. Don't get me wrong I play GG strive it's my main FG but I can't in good faith say it has the depth of Xrd.
I do agree that it overall isnt as deep. It pretty much just can't be. BUT I think the game has gotten deeper over time and that for what it is, it's got a different kind of depth
That's probably right but if they can shave off a lot of complexity while only sacrificing a little depth, I'd say that's a good tradeoff.
If you remove mechanics, of course it's less deep by like a hard math sense. But we don't all think more depth is always good, we don't want to carry that to its extreme... What were looking for is to not lose the skill ceiling.
Until there is any evidence that we do, which for me would be that anyone can win or lose to anyone at any time, literally, not just someone raging about a set of ranked... When people can't show themselves consistently that's a problem. Until then, remove or change mechanics, make the game you wanna make, and I'll check it out.
People pretend this has happened. Sf6 can't be called simplified from sfv, so now they say the mechanics are random. If they didn't have drive rush to call random they'd go to something or another being a comeback mechanic. There are always complaints about the new game. But looking at someone like Mena, his performance just isn't possible in a game that's actually random. He's incredible. Kakeru similarly has room to show his skill, consistently, and it's in a different way than mena, which shows how much more room there is.
I personally thought about this a lot when starcraft 2 came out. Brood war is undeniably harder to play. But the idea that that suddenly removes the skill ceiling or the validity of competition is an inane leap. And the ideas that end up being defended, that basically it'd be good to make it harder to literally move back and forth on screen... It's missing something intense about what actually makes these games hard, especially in competition.
I think you are confusing depth with how consistent / unwieldy the game is to play.
depth is more choice with less obvious solutions that have pros and cons to them each. More depth is always good, unless whatever you are introducing generates issues in other aspects like pacing or balance.
@HighLanderPonyYT that doesn't sound like Strive at all. It's still far less complex than xrd, in a bad way.
14:19 NRS giving detailed frame data in the move list since 2013 Injustice: “Am I a joke to you?”
Sure they had frame data and it was very helpful but did they have the "Punish" info pop up?
Yes, NRS games are a joke.
@@dnn86 Don't you just love it when a reply completely misses the point of the original comment?
big guilty gear guy say COUNTER make dopamine yes
Great video :)
The reason I watched this is because I'm sort of trying to get into Street Fighter 2 right now. It was too hard for me to understand when I was 6 (and still is a bit now), so it's nice that developers are focusing on helping me learn how to properly deck Sagat in the face.
lily's taunt jet upper! hell yeah
Your videos just never fail to deliver, you are by far one of the best content creators that delves into the depth and curiosities of fighting games. As a mainly TEKKEN player I did miss some more references to the game, specially regarding visual and audio cues. TEKKEN 7 for me is one of the best examples of how to keep both the audience and the players aware and engaged when a Counter Hit happens, and you can even tell when some archetypes are built around this mechanic. I mean, everyone watching an EVO match with a Steve in the screen is expecting that big boom Counter Hit moment, right?
Yeah trust me, every time I make one of these, I'd like to talk more about examples like that but the videos end up so long even without it haha
@@qmanchu that makes a lot of sense, amazing video regardless. it is just bias from my part anyways
Woolie!
Good stuff
Ok video. Simple and to the point. Not bad at all. 👍
This is what I've been saying. Accessability in fighting games has been an issue of information and conveying concepts to players more than how complicated they are. No matter how simple you make your fighting game, it'll be hard to get anyone to play it if they're not sure how its meant to be played.
I dislike the dumbing things down approach and calling it a day was bad because even if it brings in people I don't think thats a good reason for issues to stand just because some people wont notice. As well as I dislike when games try to rush you into feeling like a pro player without even understand what makes it fun in the first place. In my eyes these have always been crutches more than anything that ignore proper conveyance to players where tbh most people can probably play fighting games fine.
What game is that at 14:54?
Also ik this wasn’t a major part of the video, but you love to see the Mirror’s Edge Catalyst reference, and the Lethal League music was just 👌
Great video!
E's Laf++. It's an indie game you can get from a solo developer's patreon. Shades of Guilty Gear and Blazblue. Super fun
Also glad you enjoyed my personal flairs and touches!
I don't mean to disagree, a lot of what is shown in the video are major improvements to the way information is conveyed to the players.
Regardless I believe it'd still be close to impossible or quite tedious to properly learn most fighting games without additional sources like TH-cam channels.
When I started playing Tekken 8 (my first Tekken ever) I watched all the guides videos from PhiDX and repeatedly asked myself "why the f doesn't the game tell/show me that?". There are so many quirky mechanics and sometimes niche cases with the movement, wall combos, etc. it's unlikely I would have ever noticed or realized all of that even after hundreds of hours of playing.
So while I agree that things certainly have improved, I'd say if you're not a pro player/seasoned veteran I believe it's still hard to get into fighting games with the in-game tools alone.
I agree with you! Tekken 8 is a pretty bad example though cuz those games seem to NOT want to teach their players anything lol. Lots of others have taken strides to move away from outside sources. SF6 I think genuinely could teach you everything you need to know without guides
T8 shows you mtx and the shop before its deeper mechanics. Lol
What a joke of a release.
14:54
E's laf mentionned
I just want to throw in my two cents about strive and counter hits here:
To start, I do agree that the main idea of the video is correct: Strive's counter hit visuals and sound design are excellent tools for drawing attention and helping new players focus in on these situations.
However, I disagree on a couple of points. The first is that it's a clear indicator of what's happening. While in most situations, a counter hit requires the opponent to press a button where they shouldn't, Strive has the RISC system which can *create* counter-hits from normal hits. This can cause some significant confusion for beginner players, as they'll be getting "counter hit" for just not blocking an overhead after a string of mids. Especially given how much focus is put on counter hit interactions, this can lead to situations where the defender believes they were doing something significantly wrong by blocking, or that some overheads are forced counter hit property, etc. This could have been solved by adding an additional gameplay term or simply communicating to the player the reason they were in forced counter hit state was tied to the risc gauge, like they've now shown to have implemented with Slayer's upcoming "UNIVERSE" counter.
The other point I take a bit of issue with is the idea that you can "just do the combo you already know" on counterhit, even if you're not taking advantage of the counter hit properties. I think this is just blatantly false in a lot of cases, particularly when the opponent is being launched in a combo. Heights become different, attacks are too early or too late to come out. The game even clears your special inputs such that inputting the same timing that you 'already know' will fail to result in anything at all: This is actually quite useful for competitive players over time as it allows for os hitconfirms but initially it feels clunky and punishing.
Otherwise though, I really liked the video.
In most cases where the counter hit happens, like you said, it'll give you a bigger input window and sometimes resets whatever you buffered. So you CAN just do the normal combo after you wait a moment. cS->S>HS>special moves pretty much universally works in that case. It takes a few tries, nobody's gonna perfect it first go, but when I learn a character this is exactly what I do in Strive. There's exceptions, sure. But that's pretty uncommon
I'd love FGs to give better or any audiovisual cues for when a blocked attack was safe or unsafe.
For the Combo Countwr, Blazblue has an even better version, where the counter for true combos is red, and it turns Blue when you hit a techable move, but also it puts a little number with a 🚫 symbol bellow it to show you at what hit exactly the combo became techable.
An idea i got for a fighter i might want to make: each form of invincibility has a sign, so if you jump attack a move but it loses and you cant tell why, an orange 'not allowed' sign will fly out of the opponent instead of a hit spark, showing that you hit them when they were air invincible
And do that for like, everything, itd prolly be overkill or too much info but maybe itd work
Blazblue's "COUNTER" walked so GG's could run.
super on the mark. im really excited for how riot "teaches" new players how to play their games. i learned how to play valorant which eased me into cs. i hope learning 2xko gets some people to try lots of other fighting games
Honestly, i hadn’t noticed how important being aware of counters was until i played SF6, and looking back at other FGs you can REALLY feel it’s abscence
yupp. I still remember the moment I tried counter hit confirming in SFV for the first time. I thought it was something only pros would do but then I realized you can easily set it up for yourself and be ready for it. Something that blew me away even more was that counter hits in SFV actually did more damage than regular ones. I don't think the game ever tells you this outright
Can someone please give me the name or the link for the frame data mode in guilty gear strive
You should make a video about the Reaplayability of Fighting Games compared to other genres
Great idea!
Soulcalibur II and III with different weapons (with special effects) helps add replayability.
that combo color change thing would be grate in Skull girls know when a combo is reset would go a long way to deal with a lot of the BS
My guy just called a perfect electric combo "standard" a lot of kazuya players don't even go for it because of how difficult it is.
This is something I hadn't thought about, but yeah you're right. More information helps alot. I just really hope no other games copy Strive's counter hit pause, the huge combo counter, or the awful wall breaks, because that game is so annoying to play. It's a constant stop and go that's incredibly frustrating. Very similar to its awful lobby experience lol
What a banger video
11:24 the paint is ONLY for punish counter DI (and DI in general) and those effects on Tekken have absolutely nothing to do with counterhits. Those blue screens happen when a specific type of attack called "Heat Engager" connects and it doesn't need to be a counterhit, normal hit works exactly the same without a single difference.
While we're at it, I don't know how controversial this will be, but hell, I'd like to see some game take it further still. There's a lot of potential to make a more approachable fighting game here!
While For Honour has its problems, and I won't get into them here, it did do one very simple thing which I'm surprised I haven't seen a fighting game do. Attacks with the "unblockable" property have an orange, fiery effect to them. Attacks with the "undodgeable" property have a blue trail. And there are other, small little visual cues that point to character/move properties, player decisions, etc.
If I play a fighting game, I can get hit by something and go "yo what? I was blocking?", and then have to infer that something the opponent did was unblockable, or maybe an overhead, or maybe they did some weird sort of cross-up thing. Sometimes it's something you have to research or lab. And I don't think a lot of stuff _has_ to be that way.
that PEWGF clip doesn't serve the purpose you think.
The what?
about punishes, the game 'footsies' shows it after you land the whiff punishes in huge black letters, as well as confirms which many games dont show
Tekken 8 while new and has amazing tools in the replay feature just a simple message or sound cue like what they added for the new CH throws for hitting a punish and ch strings confirm should help a lot for new players trying to learn hell tekken is a game that would benefit more if they added the text even small side text like what you see in SF6
I just wish that a fighting games have an option to display the framedata during the matches, I hate that if I want to find out if something works I need to learn the opponents characters moves, combos, record them and then try stuff against it.
I want to be able to learn the game at my own pace but efficiently. I want to learn playing one character first by playing that character, and not main one character by having to play all of the characters.
And I don't care about the gatekeeping stuff how back in the day... I don't care, and gamedevs who want their games to grow and sell should not care about that stuff either.
Clicked this assuming it would be yet another vid bitching abt modern controls in sf6 and instead found it to be so well reasoned and encouraging that I subscribed immediately
I try not to bitch 😤
Just to clarify something u got wrong at 1:30
Ryan Hart didn’t do a « pretty standard electric combo » he did a PEWGF combo, which is the hardest combo in the game.
You have to perfect input the electric at the first frame of neutral after the counterhit df2.
So yeah, 4 just frames back to back
Actually prob not the hardest combo in the game at all, but PEWGF is the hardest move with TJU
You're right
0:00 seeing a wall bounce from this angle is so cursed ngl XDD
Right???
Damn chun-li is fuckin dead in the thumbnail Ryu punched a hole literally right through her 💀
I’m surprised more fighting games haven’t added something like Devil May Cry’s style system as active 24/7 feedback… like at all
The rumble nudge when you land a counterhit in KoF XV is so damn useful but only for the few players using a dualshock, it makes me wonder how worth would it be to include some micro rumble motors into leverless//arcade stick, at the very condition that other devs follow the idea.
Despite some efforts, KoF XV sadly has a relatively tiny-restricted player base, but if the incoming Fatal Fury achieves to appeal to more players, I hope this feature will be around since more people could be incited to use regular gamepads (like dualsense), and this could be a good step for this idea to become a standard.
I have dualsense and it works on that! But yeah it's kind of lost in KOF considering they're mostly stick players
@@qmanchu Yep, and among the few pad players that could be into SNK games, many are using something like the Hori Fighting Commander which doesn't have any rumble motor. But anyway, if this feature gets to be included into more games, I wan't arcade sticks with rumble haha.
6:18 using seereax, doto, and rhyme is peak, a little credit would go a long way though
You're right my friend! Appreciate it. I'll put them in the description soon
i see so in strive the counter become dark blue because of that it happen to me by accident and i did not know hwy even if there is no tech in strive , so maybe it means that i start hitting buttons when i am not supposed to
Nah in strive that means you got hit after a guard crush. Successful high/low mixups after guard crush are blue/purple combos in strive
@@qmanchu i see thanks for clearing my misunderstanding , i love your videos they are really informative keep it up brother
Who is the person at 13:46 and where can I watch his interview?
Ryan Hart
I honestly think that both methods of making fighting games easier for casual audiences work, because they both work for better situations. Simple inputs work for those that are off put by said executional requirements and want to do cool moves right away, because if they don't have a easy cool first impression they'll probably drop it from there since most casuals don't care about the context and want to just press buttons. Context is important for those who do want to invest more time but simply haven't wanted to spend hours and hours learning specific hit interactions. It allows for everything you said in your video, and for people to be able to focus on being better in the moment on their neutral instead of combos. But of course I do think that many devs would want to add mechanics to try and spice up the game more because that shows everyone that your series is continuously evolving mechanically and offering a different experience from the last game. It's really all about balance for game and trying to find a good medium where the most amount of people can have fun the way they want.
Fantastically put!
@@qmanchu Thank you! Amazing vid btw! Keep up the amazing work!
I've just recently started noticing things like punish counters in SF games and oddly enough it's because of GG Strive.
Only way to reduce skill gap is to get better
The only true and useful way
Game at 14:54
Is E’s Laf++ if anyone was wondering…
DF2 PEWGF is a standard combo 💀💀💀
When the player base and the community size increases, it'll help smooth the skill gap a bit in online play.
Great point actually
Youve really gotta check out E's laf ++ (E's laf 2) combo counter, its so amazing and displays so much info on block or hit, like showing wether a block string is tight or not.
nevermind i just got to the part in the video where u showed es laf gameplay lol
Lmao yeah I didn't dive into the game as deeply as I'd like to but I knew I had to include it because of how good it is at things like this
I really dont like Strives counter slowmo, I think the old mehtod with the announcer saying counter and the opponent flashing bright red is enough to clue a new player in while not throwing off the flow of a match
The chipmunk voice at 0:26 sure intrigued me right? Speaking of cute voices, how would you feel about making a video about fighting game characters with cute voice dialogues such as those in various anime fighters like Arcana Heart and Under Night In Birth?
The increase in accessibility features to help understand the rules of these games makes me hope these games would shore up some of their other incredibly bad accessibility blind spots.
For some context here, I have Autism, alongside some other learning disabilities that affect things like motor skills and pattern recognition. Those two have been helped by things like Tekken's playable replays, or the general trend towards ease of inputs, but there's still a major symptom I have that MOST games kinda do very little about, and that's sensory overload. I experience sensations, especially visual and auditory ones, at a much higher intensity than others do. Games like GG Strive and most other anime games are borderline, if not actually unplayable for me because of this since I cannot visually parse what's going on onscreen. Things like cleaner art styles, like that of Skullgirls, that center most of the info you'd need for counterhits, punishes, highs, and lows, on the character, help me a ton, and SG is the most comprehensible game in this genre for me because of that. But I'd even like things like character outlines, or darkened backgrounds to make it easier to see character silhouettes.
This isn't an FG exclusive issue but it does affect my ability to enjoy these games with my friends a lot and I want to see improvement in this field as well, since I hear so few people actually talking about it.
I've never even considered something like that to be honest but it does highlight a LOT about the FG experience. Thanks for sharing, and hopefully a dev somewhere sees a comment like this and implements the feedback
@@qmanchu No problem!! I tend to leave comments like this wherever I find it'd add something. I'm not super into the FGC itself, but I love these games, and it's kinda why I wanna make this stuff known, at least enough to where I think some change could happen eventually.
What game is that at 3:20
probably that league of legends fighting game, Project L
8:48 I thing that marketing and regional prices played bigger role in ggst success
14:54 What game is this?
E's Laf++ you can find it on twitter and it's only $5 for access from the developers patreon. Game is still being built but it's got rly cool ideas
There is no more individuality in FGs. There is no more combos that only few of people can do, there is no more 1 frame links, game slows down on occasions... But it is money who talks here.
About Punish counters, sad you forget to mention SFV as a stepping stone, the CRUSH COUNTERS is the first time I remember seen this at least on the sf side.
I think crush Counters actually achieved the opposite effect in terms of teaching this kind thing actually. People just fished for heavy buttons for a long time before were adjusted
Diego is crazy