By far my favorite TH-cam channel on the internet!! Truly wish you could post things more often! Always amazing content! Thank you both for all the time you both put into sharing the "actual truth" of Orthodoxy!
We truly appreciate those gracious & kind words! Blessings brother! ☦️❤️ We would love to post more too! I see why TH-camrs do this fulltime it's definitely a time commitment 😅
@@TheTransfiguredLifeI don't know how big your parish is Father but ours is fairly small in Springfield Missouri and our priest (Fr. Basil) is always extremely busy! I'm sure it's really difficult finding any extra time for TH-cam but so greatful that you do!
Wow! All those reasons are what I’ve been told, that we don’t know the real date but that’s what the church picked. It doesn’t make it any less special, but how amazing that early Christians kept records of the date. I never knew this. Thanks for sharing!
22:04 "Saturnalia was a week long celebration... was not a one-day celebration like December 25th, it was a week-long celebration" In fairness, Christmas presently (and quite some time before) is a 12-days celebration, till the day before Epiphany.
The 12 Days of Christmas is a forgotten tradition in the Anglosphere. I am glad that Orthodoxy understands the reality of the celebration of the Incarnation and the "Going Out" of Christ. Christ is Born! Glorify Him!.
@@acekoala457I was fascinated to learn about the remnants of Orthodox tradition in rural England from British Orthodox priest Andrew Philips (serves in Colchester, in Essex.)
The 12 Days are really a Western observance as our Orthodox observance of the time of the Nativity is 8 days long, from December 25 to its Leavetaking on December 31. The fact that we continue fast-free for the next 4 days, until the strict fast day of January 5, is part of the historical tie between the nativity and theophany which were once one feast then later separated but celebrated as one continuous time of the coming of Christ into the world.
And of course December 25th is not on December 25th but 13 days later, thanks to a smartypants Renaissance Roman Pope. (Take it from an old calendarist by heart, new calendarist by the force of circumstances.)
@@JustJordan126Well, it's common knowledge. Today is December 2nd, according to the Julian calendar. Gregorian calendar (the one most commonly observed today) was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII bull "Inter gravissimas" in 1582. It's an exaggeration, of course, to give all credit to him, because development of the mathematical apparatus took almost 50 years prior. It introduced 10 day jump so that the to calendars would be in sync at the time of the First Ecumenical Council in Nicea; which difference increases by 3 days every 400 years and is at 13 days presently. Adoption of the new calendar took centuries in Europe alone; Turkey was the last to jump the bandwagon in 1926. At about the same time many Orthodox Churches were rudely forced to abandon their millennia-old religious calendar if favor of this new invention, which caused quite a few schisms lasting to this day. The single person who, I think, did the most to get us there was Meletios Metaxakis of shameful memory, Patriarch of Alexandria(1926-1935), Patriarch of Constantinople (1923), and Archbishop of Athens (1918-1920,) thus making him the only man in history to be a chief bishop of three autocephalous churches. In the last year of his life he also unsuccessfully attempted to be elected Patriarch of Jerusalem. Presently, only Russian, Serbian, Georgian, and Jerusalem Churches observe the old, Julian calendar for their services. Russian Church was briefly forced to reluctantly accept the new calеndar in October-November 1923 (by decree of misinformed Patriarch Tikhon who was just released from captivity at that time, but then realized he was taken for a ride regarding the calendar.) I also heard of several single parishes of OCA who were OKed by their bishop to observe the Julian calendar. Of course the calendar those other Orthodox Churches now follow is hypocritically called "New Julian", rather than "Gregorian". For all practical purposes the two are identical. That said, I am convinced that obedience to the Church is more important than calendar issues, and observe the days with the Antiochian church a parishioner of which I presently am.
If you're going to make such a statement, it's incumbent on you to provide an argument, reasons, and sources. And you do not, so how do you back up your claim?
@thetransfiguredlife @fr.jonathanivanoff - you forgot to speak about the correlation to st. John the baptist's birth that you mentioned at the start of the video :(
Yes, it was part of the original recorded portion but we ended up cutting it since it was long and we wanted to try to keep the episode to a reasonable length. - Fr. Jonathan Ivanoff
This channel is criminally underrated. ✝️
Best comment IMHO. 😅🎉 And another informative podcast, thank you for your insight Father Jonathan.
@@sundaybest27 Lol thanks and yes I 2nd that. Thank you Father Jon.
You're welcome! @@sundaybest27
I think Luther and I might very much agree!
By far my favorite TH-cam channel on the internet!! Truly wish you could post things more often! Always amazing content! Thank you both for all the time you both put into sharing the "actual truth" of Orthodoxy!
We truly appreciate those gracious & kind words! Blessings brother! ☦️❤️
We would love to post more too! I see why TH-camrs do this fulltime it's definitely a time commitment 😅
@@TheTransfiguredLifeI don't know how big your parish is Father but ours is fairly small in Springfield Missouri and our priest (Fr. Basil) is always extremely busy! I'm sure it's really difficult finding any extra time for TH-cam but so greatful that you do!
@@milleslong6549Thank you ☦️❤️
Thank you! @@milleslong6549
This was my favorite one yet.
Thank you!
Wow! All those reasons are what I’ve been told, that we don’t know the real date but that’s what the church picked. It doesn’t make it any less special, but how amazing that early Christians kept records of the date. I never knew this. Thanks for sharing!
☦️☦️☦️
Thank you!
This was so incredibly informative! Definitely sharing this in a protestant group arguing about this. 😂
Thanks Alicia! Glad to hear that. Haha and yes please do! 😅
Alicia: did you end up sharing it? What was the result?
Wait! Tell me which group and gimme a minute to pop popcorn!
@Fr.JonathanIvanoff at this point, I don't remember, lol.
@@KatWomanHikes it was Dr. Heiser's Divine Council group.
Another brilliant video!
☦️☦️☦️
Thank you!
This is so great! Thanks. 🎄That was so funny, the sheep 🐑 were born when Santa came.
Haha thanks! ☦️
What is the reply to other church fathers that give other dates?
What church fathers gave other dates? Can you supply some examples?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: "God is With Us, Christ is Born! Glorify Him".
Haha, there you go! Amen! ☦️🔥🔥
22:04 "Saturnalia was a week long celebration... was not a one-day celebration like December 25th, it was a week-long celebration"
In fairness, Christmas presently (and quite some time before) is a 12-days celebration, till the day before Epiphany.
The 12 Days of Christmas is a forgotten tradition in the Anglosphere.
I am glad that Orthodoxy understands the reality of the celebration of the Incarnation and the "Going Out" of Christ.
Christ is Born! Glorify Him!.
@@acekoala457I was fascinated to learn about the remnants of Orthodox tradition in rural England from British Orthodox priest Andrew Philips (serves in Colchester, in Essex.)
@@acekoala457 💯💯
The 12 Days are really a Western observance as our Orthodox observance of the time of the Nativity is 8 days long, from December 25 to its Leavetaking on December 31. The fact that we continue fast-free for the next 4 days, until the strict fast day of January 5, is part of the historical tie between the nativity and theophany which were once one feast then later separated but celebrated as one continuous time of the coming of Christ into the world.
And of course December 25th is not on December 25th but 13 days later, thanks to a smartypants Renaissance Roman Pope.
(Take it from an old calendarist by heart, new calendarist by the force of circumstances.)
What is your source?
@@JustJordan126
The Church Calendar
@@JustJordan126Well, it's common knowledge. Today is December 2nd, according to the Julian calendar.
Gregorian calendar (the one most commonly observed today) was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII bull "Inter gravissimas" in 1582. It's an exaggeration, of course, to give all credit to him, because development of the mathematical apparatus took almost 50 years prior. It introduced 10 day jump so that the to calendars would be in sync at the time of the First Ecumenical Council in Nicea; which difference increases by 3 days every 400 years and is at 13 days presently.
Adoption of the new calendar took centuries in Europe alone; Turkey was the last to jump the bandwagon in 1926. At about the same time many Orthodox Churches were rudely forced to abandon their millennia-old religious calendar if favor of this new invention, which caused quite a few schisms lasting to this day. The single person who, I think, did the most to get us there was Meletios Metaxakis of shameful memory, Patriarch of Alexandria(1926-1935), Patriarch of Constantinople (1923), and Archbishop of Athens (1918-1920,) thus making him the only man in history to be a chief bishop of three autocephalous churches. In the last year of his life he also unsuccessfully attempted to be elected Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Presently, only Russian, Serbian, Georgian, and Jerusalem Churches observe the old, Julian calendar for their services. Russian Church was briefly forced to reluctantly accept the new calеndar in October-November 1923 (by decree of misinformed Patriarch Tikhon who was just released from captivity at that time, but then realized he was taken for a ride regarding the calendar.) I also heard of several single parishes of OCA who were OKed by their bishop to observe the Julian calendar.
Of course the calendar those other Orthodox Churches now follow is hypocritically called "New Julian", rather than "Gregorian". For all practical purposes the two are identical.
That said, I am convinced that obedience to the Church is more important than calendar issues, and observe the days with the Antiochian church a parishioner of which I presently am.
Dec 25th is not when Jesus was born
Did you watch the video?
They address many sources in the video
I'd be interested in seeing your evidence.
Thank you. 🙂
If you're going to make such a statement, it's incumbent on you to provide an argument, reasons, and sources. And you do not, so how do you back up your claim?
@thetransfiguredlife @fr.jonathanivanoff - you forgot to speak about the correlation to st. John the baptist's birth that you mentioned at the start of the video :(
Yes, it was part of the original recorded portion but we ended up cutting it since it was long and we wanted to try to keep the episode to a reasonable length. - Fr. Jonathan Ivanoff