Not sure what inspires someone to comment on a 2yr old post. This is Old news. We’ve obviously learned a lot regarding 2handed no thumb layouts since then. As a driller we now know the possibilities are endless when determining layouts for reactions to compliment a players style/release/speed and or equipment. Stay humble and never stop learning or trying new things.
Remember Storm Nation that we are more than happy to answering your questions individually via email (tech@stormbowling.com) or feel free to call our tech support at 435-723-0402 .... Bowl up a Storm!
2LS has been out for over a year now. I'd love to see Storm expand on the number of recommended layouts a bit more. It's rare that I see anyone using the recommended layouts in Storm's ball reaction videos. Would love to see them expand their recommendations with perhaps a set of layouts for rev dom, speen dom & matched bowlers.
@@denmanfite3156i drill my own equipment, and have tried a bunch of different 2LS combinations. What works best are typically not what’s shown on the recommended chart, and I rarely see anyone actually using those layouts. The current recommendations feel like a first attempt, and now need to be updated based on what people have actually found works best for various speeds and rev rates.
Excellent excellent video! Alex does an amazing job thoroughly explaining complex topics. I’ll be utilizing this system to get another perspective on my current layouts and intend on doing some experiments with this system to create better ball motion for myself.
So my question is (maybe I missed the explanation on the video) when finding the lightning arc angle using the chart. It only goes right and down. What about bowlers who’s PAP is right and up? How do we determine the Lightning arc for them?
It’ll be the same measurement. The chart refers to the “vertical PAP coordinate” which can either be up or down. My pap is 1/2” up, so I just locate 1/2” on the chart and find my lightning arc. Just make sure your last arc is oriented down if the PAP is up. Hopefully that made some sense lol
Looking forward to Belmo getting back to his winning ways now that his equipment will be working for him again. If look at Belmo's old layouts after the no weight hole rule, his balls had little to no dynamics for him. His asymm balls were effectively drilled as symm balls (middle number applies to asymm balls only and super important if you need a lot of ball motion). He likes to swing it and it literally wasn't possible with his old layouts after the rule change as his weight hole was the only thing giving his balls any meaningful diff and once removed his balls were dead on the lanes (my son went through the same thing and this layout system fixed it). 2LS is the future for no thumb two handers. Can't just use the one handed layout system and "adjust" it for two handers. The industry made huge mistakes in this regard when trying to apply their computerized one handed layout systems to two handers. Bowlers like Chris Via figured it out early and had a great season.
You do know the ufo alert he’s been killing it with is drilled with the pin 2.5” at most from his fingers? Similarly to his old stuff? It’s the symmetricals and likely some urethanes he moved the pins up on. Makes them flare more in the fronts, stand up and go a little more forward down lane because the flare slows them down. IE that Hustle HYB with the pin 6” over and the IQ at like 4+“ on one of the last shows…. Then keep the pin closer on the asyms so they clear the fronts and little better and retain energy and corner…
Since the Val is no longer used in 2ls is it still important to watch out for what would normally be a “negative” Val angle/ pin buffer? I have a few balls with slightly negative Val angles and the seem to roll okay. Curious if other two handers have used negative Val angles on any of their equipment?
Just out of curiosity what would be the idea distance/length for the bridge (between the fingers)????? its seems like every pro shop operator "guesstimates"
You guys talked about finger hole depth, but what happens when I drill my fingers at different depths (i.e. one hole is drilled at 1” and the other at 3”)? Does this produce anything useful?
@@Kaazkhan1 I wouldn't think so and your not going to get Storm to do something like that which will over complicate, exponentially increase research cost, and make it more cumbersome to explain and teach to PSO's and customers. If your not able to decide and/or work with your PSO to help choose what 2LS layouts and bowling balls best fits your bowling style, I would say you need to focus more on getting lessons and practicing because the minimal changes in drilling different finger holes different depths, isn't going to be the difference between you being a great bowler or not.
I've been having tracking issues where the first rings have been going over my middle finger with the standard pin up and pin down and to the side layouts, any tips?
I’m confused…. Ive seen comments saying that if the PAP is up the vertical arc needs to be down….. but @ 17:51 he motioned to keep the vertical arc up?
Is the 2LS system recommended for 1 hand No-Thumb bowlers? Just purchased a new arsenal of 4 storm balls ready to be drilled and need to know if I should move to the L2S layouts for stronger reactions.. Thank you!
Yes. When people say "two hand" they mean no thumb. It doesn't matter if you actually use two hands or not, what matters is that it doesn't have a thumb hole
Is the Lightning Arc chart needed if you are using the Jayhawk Precision Axis Reversing tool? ie: set the tool for horizontal and vertical PAP coordinates, pin it to the marked PAP, and rotate the tool to align it with the pin to center of grip Arc. Seems like the Spyder tool would also work for this. This system uses the finger holes to replicate the PSA created by a thumbhole in a traditional grip. For strong asymms, is this system really needed, since the PSA is defined in the ball design, and the finger holes would have less relative effect on dynamics? The CLT might be a good registration aid for keeping the bowler's hand sitting in the same position every time. ie: Drill ball. Have bowler hold ball in the delivery position. Turn ball over maintaining bowler hand position. Mark the ball in the V-notch at the base of the fingers. Scribe a line from the mark through the center of bridge. Bowler can then use the scribed CLT as a visual aid in hand position.
Alex, I have switched to two handed due to injury. I don't generate the ball speed necessary to control the extra rotation that I now have So I'm looking to manipulate the ball layout to help. When I switched over last year, I purchased a new Emerald IQ. This ball breaks loose way too early for me to use. I want to plug & redrill using your 5-1/2x5x2-2LS layout as it claims to be clean thru the front & angular in the back end. Here's my question: Should I use my PAP of 6-1/2 for the PIN to PAP number or just use the layout as written? Will that skew the reaction that I'm hoping for in a negative way? Anyone? Thanks for your help.
You can just use your PAP. Also, there are a couple of ways you can lower the skid-flip of a bowling ball. One is redrilling it to give it a cleaner look, as you mentioned. Another is by changing surface using abralon pads. The lower the pad number (ie 350, 500) the less overall hook you'll see. And the other method is using the oil on the lane. By moving left and keeping the angles tighter, the ball sits in the oil longer. By sitting in the oil longer, the ball cannot hook. Then, when the ball does read friction, it's hook is helpful because it will have the necessary time to come back to pocket
I had it drilled with the Storm benchmark 2LS layout and it is a monster. Just threw a 236 out of the box. Thanks Storm and Belmo! "You bloody did it again!"
With the layouts used for jesper does the ball have much leeway for legal weights side and top and bottom? Also if there is no vertical pap distance is the tangent just the intersection of pin to pap and psa distance?
You certainly can. I wouldn't because strong drillings always seem to be better for me. So if my strong ball is too strong, the move isn't another strong ball with a weaker layout but a weaker ball with a strong layout. But that's just me, many people prefer the opposite.
Very informative, but what changes to the numbers if the bowler has for example 3/4" reverse in both fingers or even 1/2" or a combination of both? recently drilled a hyroad max, @2 1/4 depth, if i drill it deeper to 3 or 3 1/2 should it tame the ball down with the reverse pitches with a 4 1/2 pin?
The finger hole length in these layouts is kind of confusing as it can totally change ball motion even if you have a specific layout. Interesting though is you can drill a ball to move early and maybe stronger but if you decide it’s too much or u want more length to smooth out all u need to do is drill the finger deeper. Like you can seriously adjust RG without filling and redrilling. Insane stuff
It's absolutely possible to have that PAP. As far as the last arc goes, because your PAP has a 0 up/down measurement, you'd simply use the marked PAP instead of drawing an the final arc. So the mid line would go directly from the PAP to the COG... instead of from the COG to the tangent of the PAP arc.
Super great info! Now I’m confused do I just buy the same Trend 1 and get it drilled with the new 2Ls layout before trying out the new Effin Trend 2? Man decisions decisions!
I recently plugged my thumb holes to make my balls legal and noticed they all hooked like crap and wouldn't read the lanes anymore. I studied this video, laid out my ball 5"x4"x4" like the demo in the 5 arcs segment, took it to my local shop and asked them to plug my finger holes and re-drill them where I had the marks. The angry proshop worker, who felt like he had to show me how much more he knew than me, proceeded to rip my ass about how it will be illegal because the cg mark is above the finger holes. I told him to do it anyway because I needed to start somewhere. He said there would be to much top weight. Wouldn't a good shop tech do what I'm paying for and start with 1" finger holes, check the balance and drill deeper if needed to make it legal?
Sounds like he might be thinking about the older static imbalance rules - now that we can't have balance holes, we can have 3 oz. of static imbalance, so your layout shouldn't be an issue. 5 x 4 x 4 2LS is pretty ordinary.
@@justusmorgan1995 I used to have a pro shop I trusted. They had a young guy there but he was an actual pro (never won a title but cashed many times) and more importantly, trained by Mo himself. He knew what he was doing. I moved away years ago though so now I do my own layouts. All I need now is a drill press operator that knows what pitches are. Much easier to find.
If you use your thumb when throwing 2 handed it is fine but if you don't you can't drill a thumbhole and have it legal for USBC competitions or competitions that follow USBC rules. It used to be that you could drill a thumbhole and it would be counted as a balance hole if you didn't use it (assuming you didn't have anymore holes in the ball) but now you need to use all the holes. If you don't care about competition, yes you can do that. Your ideal finger pitches and PAP will probably be different between both styles but it will probably work okay. I used some balls drilled for a one hander as a two handed for a bit when I switched styles.
WOW! Great Vid. I'm not a two handed bowler, but the info is great. I'm not sure how much of the info applies to one handed, three hole, drills. I would greatly appreciate it if you could explain that
This video is not nearly thorough enough. I want to see ball reactions on if you change the first number and also if you change the second number. I need that information!
For a spare ball, you can just use the weakest layout possible. For most spare balls, the pin and cg are very close or even on top of each other, making the ball weak in and of itself. But drilling it either pin down (thereby creating more length) or just with a really weak pin u layout would work.
Thank you for explaining this. I recently did this layout on my hyped pearl and it is so snappy off of friction. It’s something that I may have to get used too because my hyroad the pin is above my ring finger and my hustle it’s a little off of my ring finger.
it works the same, yes... the difference would be that you need to mark the PSA on the symmetrical first where as the PSA is marked for you from the factory on asymmetricals
all work here was done on Symmetrical balls, is there a separate group of research done for asymmetrical balls? Clearly the amounts change per the different cores, I assume you use the MB and PIN, rather then CG and PIN and do the same. I do find it interesting that you guys clearly explore the drill patterns and internal diff. changes but do not make this information public. It is important information to determine a balls reaction and characteristics once holes are punched.
Thanks Josh for your comment. You would use the Pin and the marked PSA, or Mass Bias, on all asymmetricals.. the reference to the CG would be used for finding and marking yourself the Y axis on the symmetricals.
Its all based on your center of grip for your pap measurement and where the most mass is removed when the ball is drilled. Two handers with a thumb would still be able to use vector or dual angle. I still use vector with great success.
@@wingracer1614 i actually ended up working at a pro shop, so I had all the tools available to me and didn’t need to spend any money. I’ve drilled some of my favorite balls with this layout (Phaze 2, IQ Tour and Rubicon UC2) and I ended up realizing that personal for me the 2LS system didn’t work as efficiently as I thought. It was very over/under and didn’t provide the shapes and continuation I was looking for. Though, I put it on some of my good friend’s pieces and it rolled great for them so I personally believe it’s a feel thing. I personally took months to learn this and also Dual Angle and I still lay out my own equipment and go to lessons to learn how to drill.
@@symmertic4563 That's awesome. It's really not that hard. I'd like to see more people learn to do it themselves. I also do guitar repair/setup and I'm always teaching people how to do setups themselves. There's really no reason not to.
I was unable to enjoy this vid because... yt packed it with so many ads. Sorry -presentation is shattered like sheet glass because of that. As for no thumb, those guys have so much in revs they don't benefit from core dynamics as much as thumb bowlers. They need surface that doesn't disappear after 5 throws, and cores that dont get twitchy if rev rate goes up or down by 50. Their enemy is transition: good angle too early or late just doesn't work..
@@DeanMcCain layouts control flare which determines how the ball slows down when going down the lane. The ball loses energy you apply to it at release.
@@erici9025 yes you are correct. But if you know that, then you also know that one handers also have the same ability to alter it and increase or decrease their "dynamics" as a two hander does. And actually, more two handers who started with weight holes struggled when said weight hole went away. This layout system alleviates that problem by returning to allowing the bowling ball to do the work
@@erici9025 not an official one, but look at the professional tour. Two handers had such a hard time and barely appeared on television immediately after the weight hole ban was out in place. It’s only after this new layout system came out two handers came back to the forefront
I appreciate that the presenter was taking enough time to explain the system and slowly enough to allow me to follow the presentation,
Great Job!
about time someone started talking about two handed layouts!! thank you!
Storm TRUST ME when I say I speak for all us 2 handers please give us MORE LAYOUTS w/ reactions!!!
Radical also gives something like 5-6 layouts for balls and says don't use 1 of them on symmetrics. Why do you need more?
Not sure what inspires someone to comment on a 2yr old post. This is Old news. We’ve obviously learned a lot regarding 2handed no thumb layouts since then. As a driller we now know the possibilities are endless when determining layouts for reactions to compliment a players style/release/speed and or equipment. Stay humble and never stop learning or trying new things.
@@kylet2635 Your comment exists and people see it. Don't want a reply then delete it.
Remember Storm Nation that we are more than happy to answering your questions individually via email (tech@stormbowling.com) or feel free to call our tech support at 435-723-0402 .... Bowl up a Storm!
2LS has been out for over a year now. I'd love to see Storm expand on the number of recommended layouts a bit more. It's rare that I see anyone using the recommended layouts in Storm's ball reaction videos. Would love to see them expand their recommendations with perhaps a set of layouts for rev dom, speen dom & matched bowlers.
Radical also gives something like 5-6 layouts for balls and says don't use 1 of them on symmetrics. Why do you need more?
@@denmanfite3156i drill my own equipment, and have tried a bunch of different 2LS combinations. What works best are typically not what’s shown on the recommended chart, and I rarely see anyone actually using those layouts. The current recommendations feel like a first attempt, and now need to be updated based on what people have actually found works best for various speeds and rev rates.
Really enjoyed the "why" portion.
Alex, thank you so much. The method is awesome and precise, and the video is amazingly clear and thorough.
Excellent excellent video! Alex does an amazing job thoroughly explaining complex topics.
I’ll be utilizing this system to get another perspective on my current layouts and intend on doing some experiments with this system to create better ball motion for myself.
Glad it was helpful!
How do I explain this to my pro bowling shop? 😂
Seriously! I asked my guy about it and he looked at me funny. Can I take it you y’all at storm? I live in Utah?
My pro Shop operator in Gladstone, Mo has quite a few thumbless and 2 handed bowlers. He's been using the 2ls for us for a 4-6 weeks now.
If a pro shop operator doesn't understand this..you need a new guy..or girl.
Buy the arc ruler and drawn the lines on your ball.
@@SneakySteevy yep that's what I did. He put the fingers where I told him to.
So my question is (maybe I missed the explanation on the video) when finding the lightning arc angle using the chart. It only goes right and down. What about bowlers who’s PAP is right and up? How do we determine the Lightning arc for them?
It’ll be the same measurement. The chart refers to the “vertical PAP coordinate” which can either be up or down. My pap is 1/2” up, so I just locate 1/2” on the chart and find my lightning arc. Just make sure your last arc is oriented down if the PAP is up. Hopefully that made some sense lol
On the first 2ls drill, if the fingers are drilled deep will plugging anything over the 2 1/8 help lower the Rg back down?
Looking forward to Belmo getting back to his winning ways now that his equipment will be working for him again. If look at Belmo's old layouts after the no weight hole rule, his balls had little to no dynamics for him. His asymm balls were effectively drilled as symm balls (middle number applies to asymm balls only and super important if you need a lot of ball motion). He likes to swing it and it literally wasn't possible with his old layouts after the rule change as his weight hole was the only thing giving his balls any meaningful diff and once removed his balls were dead on the lanes (my son went through the same thing and this layout system fixed it). 2LS is the future for no thumb two handers. Can't just use the one handed layout system and "adjust" it for two handers. The industry made huge mistakes in this regard when trying to apply their computerized one handed layout systems to two handers. Bowlers like Chris Via figured it out early and had a great season.
You do know the ufo alert he’s been killing it with is drilled with the pin 2.5” at most from his fingers? Similarly to his old stuff? It’s the symmetricals and likely some urethanes he moved the pins up on. Makes them flare more in the fronts, stand up and go a little more forward down lane because the flare slows them down. IE that Hustle HYB with the pin 6” over and the IQ at like 4+“ on one of the last shows…. Then keep the pin closer on the asyms so they clear the fronts and little better and retain energy and corner…
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like your Pro Sect 0 isn't on the pin when you make your 6 3/4" mark, why is that?
Since the Val is no longer used in 2ls is it still important to watch out for what would normally be a “negative” Val angle/ pin buffer? I have a few balls with slightly negative Val angles and the seem to roll okay. Curious if other two handers have used negative Val angles on any of their equipment?
Man, I would kill to have you guys lay out a ball for me
If my PAP is 4.5’’ over x 0.25’’ up.
Is the fifth arc will be 0.25’’ down?
yes
Just out of curiosity what would be the idea distance/length for the bridge (between the fingers)????? its seems like every pro shop operator "guesstimates"
You guys talked about finger hole depth, but what happens when I drill my fingers at different depths (i.e. one hole is drilled at 1” and the other at 3”)? Does this produce anything useful?
You need to watch the entire episode, he has charts and graphs explaining what your asking
@@Alldayertexas I mean if, for example, the ring finger on a ball is 1” and the middle finger on that same ball is 3”. They don’t have graphs for that
@@Kaazkhan1 I wouldn't think so and your not going to get Storm to do something like that which will over complicate, exponentially increase research cost, and make it more cumbersome to explain and teach to PSO's and customers. If your not able to decide and/or work with your PSO to help choose what 2LS layouts and bowling balls best fits your bowling style, I would say you need to focus more on getting lessons and practicing because the minimal changes in drilling different finger holes different depths, isn't going to be the difference between you being a great bowler or not.
@@Alldayertexas I’m my own PSO and I was simply curious
@@Kaazkhan1 Maybe they will answer your question! Would be interesting to hear what they have to offer. Many blessings to you and your business!
I've been having tracking issues where the first rings have been going over my middle finger with the standard pin up and pin down and to the side layouts, any tips?
I’m confused…. Ive seen comments saying that if the PAP is up the vertical arc needs to be down….. but @ 17:51 he motioned to keep the vertical arc up?
Regarding the RG mentioned in the slide ''DRILLING-RG", does it mean the low RG (x-axis) or high RG(y-axis)?
Is the 2LS system recommended for 1 hand No-Thumb bowlers? Just purchased a new arsenal of 4 storm balls ready to be drilled and need to know if I should move to the L2S layouts for stronger reactions.. Thank you!
Yes. When people say "two hand" they mean no thumb. It doesn't matter if you actually use two hands or not, what matters is that it doesn't have a thumb hole
Is the Lightning Arc chart needed if you are using the Jayhawk Precision Axis Reversing tool?
ie: set the tool for horizontal and vertical PAP coordinates, pin it to the marked PAP, and rotate the tool to align it with the pin to center of grip Arc.
Seems like the Spyder tool would also work for this.
This system uses the finger holes to replicate the PSA created by a thumbhole in a traditional grip.
For strong asymms, is this system really needed, since the PSA is defined in the ball design, and the finger holes would have less relative effect on dynamics?
The CLT might be a good registration aid for keeping the bowler's hand sitting in the same position every time.
ie: Drill ball.
Have bowler hold ball in the delivery position.
Turn ball over maintaining bowler hand position.
Mark the ball in the V-notch at the base of the fingers.
Scribe a line from the mark through the center of bridge.
Bowler can then use the scribed CLT as a visual aid in hand position.
Alex, I have switched to two handed due to injury. I don't generate the ball speed necessary to control the extra rotation that I now have So I'm looking to manipulate the ball layout to help. When I switched over last year, I purchased a new Emerald IQ. This ball breaks loose way too early for me to use. I want to plug & redrill using your 5-1/2x5x2-2LS layout as it claims to be clean thru the front & angular in the back end. Here's my question: Should I use my PAP of 6-1/2 for the PIN to PAP number or just use the layout as written? Will that skew the reaction that I'm hoping for in a negative way? Anyone?
Thanks for your help.
You can just use your PAP. Also, there are a couple of ways you can lower the skid-flip of a bowling ball. One is redrilling it to give it a cleaner look, as you mentioned. Another is by changing surface using abralon pads. The lower the pad number (ie 350, 500) the less overall hook you'll see. And the other method is using the oil on the lane. By moving left and keeping the angles tighter, the ball sits in the oil longer. By sitting in the oil longer, the ball cannot hook. Then, when the ball does read friction, it's hook is helpful because it will have the necessary time to come back to pocket
I just purchased the TREND 2. It's the first new ball I've ever had
I had it drilled with the Storm benchmark 2LS layout and it is a monster. Just threw a 236 out of the box. Thanks Storm and Belmo! "You bloody did it again!"
Man I can’t wait. Hopefully my guy can figure the 2Ls out. I have my trend 2 just not drilled yet!
Do you remember what pap for the lighting arc was used?
does this layout only work on the "storm" balls or is this for any ball? like the 4 3/4 x4 1/2 x4 1/2 layout lets say on a Gem ?
This is just a system that Storm developed, but it will work on any brand ball.
With the layouts used for jesper does the ball have much leeway for legal weights side and top and bottom? Also if there is no vertical pap distance is the tangent just the intersection of pin to pap and psa distance?
Yes if there is no vertical component to the pap, you don't need the tangent arc, the intersection is all you need
Is it a good idea to buy 3 identical balls and drill one weak, another one medium/strong and another one very strong?
You certainly can. I wouldn't because strong drillings always seem to be better for me. So if my strong ball is too strong, the move isn't another strong ball with a weaker layout but a weaker ball with a strong layout. But that's just me, many people prefer the opposite.
Very informative, but what changes to the numbers if the bowler has for example 3/4" reverse in both fingers or even 1/2" or a combination of both? recently drilled a hyroad max, @2 1/4 depth, if i drill it deeper to 3 or 3 1/2 should it tame the ball down with the reverse pitches with a 4 1/2 pin?
typically drilling the fingers deeper will reduce the amount of flare one gets out of that ball if the pin is closer (
The finger hole length in these layouts is kind of confusing as it can totally change ball motion even if you have a specific layout. Interesting though is you can drill a ball to move early and maybe stronger but if you decide it’s too much or u want more length to smooth out all u need to do is drill the finger deeper. Like you can seriously adjust RG without filling and redrilling. Insane stuff
anywhere else i can find different 2 handed layouts on top of these?
Does 2LS work for no thumb 1 handers?
Hello, new bowler here, I’m a two hander and I want to buy a ball so do I just tell them I want the 2LS drilling?
It’s amazing
I have a PAP of 5 5/8 over and 1 5/8 up... I use the 3 1/2 X 4 X 6 1/2 layout... The ball flares backwards and rolls over the finger holes
Have the graphs been released anywhere yet?
not yet, no. But it's noted that you would like to see them.
Is it possible to have a PAP of 5.25 and 0? And how would you draw that last arc?
It's absolutely possible to have that PAP. As far as the last arc goes, because your PAP has a 0 up/down measurement, you'd simply use the marked PAP instead of drawing an the final arc. So the mid line would go directly from the PAP to the COG... instead of from the COG to the tangent of the PAP arc.
@@deadpolymers3416 thx
Super great info! Now I’m confused do I just buy the same Trend 1 and get it drilled with the new 2Ls layout before trying out the new Effin Trend 2? Man decisions decisions!
Where can we get a copy of the storm lighting arc chart?
I recently plugged my thumb holes to make my balls legal and noticed they all hooked like crap and wouldn't read the lanes anymore. I studied this video, laid out my ball 5"x4"x4" like the demo in the 5 arcs segment, took it to my local shop and asked them to plug my finger holes and re-drill them where I had the marks. The angry proshop worker, who felt like he had to show me how much more he knew than me, proceeded to rip my ass about how it will be illegal because the cg mark is above the finger holes. I told him to do it anyway because I needed to start somewhere. He said there would be to much top weight. Wouldn't a good shop tech do what I'm paying for and start with 1" finger holes, check the balance and drill deeper if needed to make it legal?
Sounds like he might be thinking about the older static imbalance rules - now that we can't have balance holes, we can have 3 oz. of static imbalance, so your layout shouldn't be an issue. 5 x 4 x 4 2LS is pretty ordinary.
As a new 2-handed bowler, is there an easy way to tell if my ball was drilled correctly according to this layout?
Bro I’m scared to let any pro shop drill my ball! I feel like they need to watch these videos first lol
@@justusmorgan1995 I used to have a pro shop I trusted. They had a young guy there but he was an actual pro (never won a title but cashed many times) and more importantly, trained by Mo himself. He knew what he was doing. I moved away years ago though so now I do my own layouts. All I need now is a drill press operator that knows what pitches are. Much easier to find.
So can someone be able to do both styles but have there ball drilled like a 1 hander
If you use your thumb when throwing 2 handed it is fine but if you don't you can't drill a thumbhole and have it legal for USBC competitions or competitions that follow USBC rules. It used to be that you could drill a thumbhole and it would be counted as a balance hole if you didn't use it (assuming you didn't have anymore holes in the ball) but now you need to use all the holes. If you don't care about competition, yes you can do that. Your ideal finger pitches and PAP will probably be different between both styles but it will probably work okay. I used some balls drilled for a one hander as a two handed for a bit when I switched styles.
Where can I find a ruler like that I need one 😭
What do you do for asymmetric bowling balls? The same thing?
Where can I buy the tools for drawing the layout?
www.stormbowling.com/storm-arc-ruler-acarc
WOW! Great Vid. I'm not a two handed bowler, but the info is great. I'm not sure how much of the info applies to one handed, three hole, drills. I would greatly appreciate it if you could explain that
Watch Storm’s Vector Layout videos.
So on symm cores what is the minimum pin to finger distance you would recommend so that we get a defined PSA below the holes?
3 3/8 pin to fingers?
Where can we get the lightning Arc chart?
www.stormbowling.com/medias/2LS.xlsx and then look to the third tab across the bottom.
This video is not nearly thorough enough. I want to see ball reactions on if you change the first number and also if you change the second number. I need that information!
what 2ls should i put on a spare ball for straightest results?
For a spare ball, you can just use the weakest layout possible. For most spare balls, the pin and cg are very close or even on top of each other, making the ball weak in and of itself. But drilling it either pin down (thereby creating more length) or just with a really weak pin u layout would work.
thank you saves me from ruining a new bowling ball
Thank you for explaining this. I recently did this layout on my hyped pearl and it is so snappy off of friction. It’s something that I may have to get used too because my hyroad the pin is above my ring finger and my hustle it’s a little off of my ring finger.
does this only work with storm balls?
no, it should apply across all brands... give it a shot, no matter which company you choose
Does anyone know if this also works on asymmetric balls
I think he mentions it being the same for the first 2 measurements at 8:30
it works the same, yes... the difference would be that you need to mark the PSA on the symmetrical first where as the PSA is marked for you from the factory on asymmetricals
Is that a phaze 4 on the thumbnail?
No I believe it is an Incite
Incite yes
hi Alex thanks video. How to draw in spare ball 2ls
all work here was done on Symmetrical balls, is there a separate group of research done for asymmetrical balls? Clearly the amounts change per the different cores, I assume you use the MB and PIN, rather then CG and PIN and do the same.
I do find it interesting that you guys clearly explore the drill patterns and internal diff. changes but do not make this information public. It is important information to determine a balls reaction and characteristics once holes are punched.
Thanks Josh for your comment. You would use the Pin and the marked PSA, or Mass Bias, on all asymmetricals.. the reference to the CG would be used for finding and marking yourself the Y axis on the symmetricals.
@@stormbowling thank you fir clarifying
What about two handed players that still use there thumb
Its all based on your center of grip for your pap measurement and where the most mass is removed when the ball is drilled. Two handers with a thumb would still be able to use vector or dual angle. I still use vector with great success.
Great video but wish they would have used a reactive ball as the example
I officially now know how to lay out my own equipment, time to spend $150 on all the tools besides a drill press ☺️
A year later I am curious, did you do it? I too do my own layouts. It's not all that hard and the tools needed are available and not too expensive.
@@wingracer1614 i actually ended up working at a pro shop, so I had all the tools available to me and didn’t need to spend any money. I’ve drilled some of my favorite balls with this layout (Phaze 2, IQ Tour and Rubicon UC2) and I ended up realizing that personal for me the 2LS system didn’t work as efficiently as I thought. It was very over/under and didn’t provide the shapes and continuation I was looking for. Though, I put it on some of my good friend’s pieces and it rolled great for them so I personally believe it’s a feel thing. I personally took months to learn this and also Dual Angle and I still lay out my own equipment and go to lessons to learn how to drill.
@@symmertic4563 That's awesome. It's really not that hard. I'd like to see more people learn to do it themselves. I also do guitar repair/setup and I'm always teaching people how to do setups themselves. There's really no reason not to.
Can I bring my ball to y’all? I live in Utah and wouldn’t mind saying hi.
For EXPERIENCED PRO SHOP WORKERS, THIS IS VERY DIFFICULT
I was unable to enjoy this vid because... yt packed it with so many ads. Sorry -presentation is shattered like sheet glass because of that. As for no thumb, those guys have so much in revs they don't benefit from core dynamics as much as thumb bowlers. They need surface that doesn't disappear after 5 throws, and cores that dont get twitchy if rev rate goes up or down by 50. Their enemy is transition: good angle too early or late just doesn't work..
Seems very similar to Radical’s layout, however, Storm increases the cg arc (pin to rf line) by several inches for their standard
15:58 I know someone who’s PAP is like 7.5 over
Hahahahhahahahahahaha ummm just want to point out 2 handers have had a little bit of success for well over a decade without some complicated formula
If it is 2 handed layout system, it should be abbreviated to 2HLS. .... 2LS is the ...."two...layout system"... LOL :P
Most 2 handers don't need the same increased "dynamics" from drilling when they have such high rev rates.
Actually you'd be surprised. My rev rate has nothing if the ball isn't drilled to help that rev rate show itself
@@DeanMcCain layouts control flare which determines how the ball slows down when going down the lane. The ball loses energy you apply to it at release.
@@erici9025 yes you are correct. But if you know that, then you also know that one handers also have the same ability to alter it and increase or decrease their "dynamics" as a two hander does. And actually, more two handers who started with weight holes struggled when said weight hole went away. This layout system alleviates that problem by returning to allowing the bowling ball to do the work
@@DeanMcCain you did a study among two handers on struggling after losing weight holes?
@@erici9025 not an official one, but look at the professional tour. Two handers had such a hard time and barely appeared on television immediately after the weight hole ban was out in place. It’s only after this new layout system came out two handers came back to the forefront
finally...im still throwing illegal balls