Is SMOKING Sinful? w/ Fr. Mike Zavage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2022
- This clip was taken from a recent supporter-only livestream with Fr. Mike Zavage. Watch the full episode by becoming a support on Locals or Patreon.
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In this clip, Matt asks Fr. Mike, "Is Smoking Morally Wrong?"
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Now we have a Catholic Joe Rogan experience.
lol
Without all the degeneracy lol
Fradd is off his rocker in a good way.
Its kind of bizarre
The Catechism does state in paragraph 2290: "The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine". I suppose that pending any future magisterial rulings, deciding what constitutes an "abuse" of tobacco versus temperate use, should be between a person and their confessor/spiritual director/spiritual father. Everybody should be willing to submit to the judgment of their confessor and the magisterium.
The correct response. 👌
@YAJUN YUAN the catechism is wrong? xD that sounds exactly like this guy i've heard of named satan. Have you met him? He didnt submit to authority either.
Everything physically consumed is unhealthy in a certain aspect/amount.
One person's moderation is another excess. Basically it's case by case. When in doubt check with your religious authority. That's built into the church for a reason.
The key there says “abuse” moderate use is not abuse. Because also based on that statement every person we ever see in Church who is overweight and/or morbidly obese is visibly in a state of mortal sin from gluttony correct?
@YAJUN YUAN I think that while you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, it is important to recognize that it is just that - an opinion. The magisterial teaching on this topic is that, just as food can be used in a proper or abusive manner, so too can tobacco. Any suggestion that all tobacco usage is point-blank always sinful should be backed up by a magisterial teaching of an equal or higher weight than the Catechism, or else we risk being in error by contradicting the doctrine that the Church's teaching authority has authorized.
The question is, where is that line between use and abuse of food, tobacco, or medicine drawn? For the salvation of souls, I think it best that that question be kept between a person and their confessor, pending future judgments in light of new magisterial teaching. Just my opinion. Peace and blessings to you.
As a Catholic, if you can drink wine or beer in moderation, you can also smoke a cigar.
As a Reformed believer, I can't disagree with you, my friend.
“It’s just a plant” exact thing I’ve heard every pothead say
Is this video intentionally 4:20 long?
🤣
This guy
👍🏼
I don't see them denying it.
Lol
You guys and How To Be Christian are my favorites. Wish he did more videos.
G.K. Chesterton said: In Catholicism, the pint, the pipe, and the cross can all fit together.
Well, GK Chesterton can't be wrong. He was also obese and didn't have stats on smoking and cancer.
Would the “God created it” apply to weed too?
Did God create cocaine and heroin, too?
Yes it would. Weed has many health benefits anyways so it would be a better option anyways.
Amen
I think that is a logical conclusion.
With their line of thinking it seems that weed(in moderation) isn't bad. Im not fully convinced weed(in moderation) is bad. Although I live in Alaska and for some reason the weed here is very strong
No because it’s a mind altering substance
"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If any one loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever."
(1 John 2:15-17)
As someone who enjoys a good Churchill, I definitely agree with the contemplative aspect.
It is not that which goes into the mouth that defiles a man but that which cometh out
What goes into the mouth can give you cancer.
@@angelbonilla4243 pretty sure having cancer isn't a sin
@@obbeachbum69 Is it not if you are acting recklessly and have a family to support?
@@Pax-Christi That's an interesting heuristic Steve. First, it's not part of the catechism of the Catholic Church nor should it be. Why you ask? Well what or who defines the parameters of reckless behavior? Are race car drivers sinning? Mountain climbers? How about people who eat fast food? Fettuccine alfredo? What if you're not vegan? See where I'm going? It's why Jesus in Matthew 15:11-20 states ...Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. and ...For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.
It's the exhale not the inhale.
What does the Church say? The Church says it isn't sinful if used temperately. If Peter has spoken then the issue is resolved.
There you go! 👍
Buncha Puritans in the comments though
A lot of people consider Pope St. Pius X as the patron of cigar smokers
I quit Marijuana since I reverted to the Catholic faith. I’ve been wanting to take a hit just to take the edge off over these past few years, but I don’t want to commit a mortal sin. Anybody have any thoughts?
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify." 1 Corinthians 10:22
As an ex-daily smoker myself, I find it hard to think of a plausible moral justification for marijuana usage, when the Catechism 2291 seems to explicitly condemn it: "The use of "stupefying drugs" inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense". I don't think any mental gymnastics will ever be able to convince me, who has so much experience, that marijuana is not a "stupefying drug" - and thus, it would be a grave offence to do so, at least in my conscience and understanding. If one had glaucoma or was undergoing chemotherapy, I think it's a different story.
There is no Catholic Christian way to use Marijuana. It is a drug. Now some people say the same of alcohol, sugar, etc. which is not always the case. Alcohol for instance, if used in excess (to get drunk), too frequently and/or to address emotional problems, becomes a drug, if not, than it is just a drink and Corinthians 10:22 applies. Drug on the other hand is no drink (soda, alcoholic beverages, etc.), no food (sugar, etc.), but just... DRUG that only purpose is to get you high. Cigars are not there to get you high. Getting high is the problem. It is an attempt to address an internal problem that ONLY the Lord can. So Kneel down and pray the Lord.
I don’t believe it’s a sin if Cannabis is used for medical reasons. For example, cancer patients use cannabis for relief instead of using very strong meds that have side effects. Also I know a family member who was addicted to opiates get clean by using cannabis. Now that they are clean they only use cannabis when they feel the mental addiction tugging at them. They said the cannabis was not addicting and quitting was easy. If you use it only to get high then I think it might be a sin. Ask a Traditional Priest.
@@shadowlinks99 very well put.
My gramps died of smoke lung cancer. I'm scared to death of dating a gent who smokes. I already have enough addictions I need to fight off already.
What did he smoke? Cigarettes?
I’m a catholic cigars smokers and I love it
Looks like an Undercrown Shade that Matt is enjoying there.
I love Your show and videos but.. I don't know.. this felt like it was presented in bad taste.
Ecclesiasticus 38:4 1611 KJV: The Lord hath created medicines out of the earth; and he that is wise will not abhorre them
Thanks so much for changing the send-off! 😄 I love having a beer every once in a while, but for some reason I found that outro with a hissing can really distracting and off-putting.
So would you use cannabis? It's a plant, so cannabis joint once a day wouldn't be bad by that logic
It wouldn’t be sinful no. If you think it is make a moral argument as to why it would be bad to do so.
@@manny4012 I am just asking a question, because taking drugs in inherently sinful, marijuana is a drug, therefore taking marijuana is sinful. And no I don't mean for medical purposes of course.
@@antezulj4453 You need to define drugs though. Sugar has the same effects to the brain that many other substances have. There’s been studies in the neurosciences that show this. Sugar is drug by that standard so by your logic consumption of sugar is sinful. Do you see the problem with your argument?
@@antezulj4453 Also notice what you said at the end there. You’re not talking about medical purposes you say. So consuming marijuana is sinful or it isn’t. You can’t say “yeah taking weed is sinful but we’ll make an exception”. I would urge you take a different approach.
@@manny4012 That is a a faulty syllogism. It's a wrong premise. You and I both know what I mean by drugs, heroin, crack, marijuana...some are worse than others, but they are still classified as drugs, or if you will hallucinogenics.
What about people around you who don’t like it or breathing problems?
I'm not a drug expert but isn't Marijuana nothing but a leaf also?
I am pretty sure Marijuana is considered a sin if used recreationally. no?
does it or can it affect one's reasoning capacity? cigarettes dont.
@@mickfizz1 no.
@@NewNoise1 well then... i guess its not a sin
The argument that it came from nature, is an argument one can make, but such an argument is reckless, as many people would not be able to discern right from wrong using this argument. To keep it short, as far as christians are concerned Drunkenness and getting High is a SIN. In fact for Catholics it is a Mortal Sin. If you are an older person I would recommend that you learn the faith and what it teaches further, but if you are younger person, topics such as the one in this video do not concern you; focus on your relationship with your parents, read the bible and the lives of the saints.
@@mickfizz1 one could argue that cocaine and MDMA don’t affect your reasoning ability when used in moderation either. On either drug driving ability isn’t impaired, for instance.
You could also make the opposite argument and say that nicotine and caffeine DO affect reasoning, just not as intensely as marijuana or alcohol. So where’s the cutoff? How severely must you be impacted for it to be considered sinful?
Would being slightly buzzed/tipsy but able to legally drive and make decisions be considered a sin? What BAC makes God unhappy with you?
Love this, brother! AMEN!
We have been burning plants and inhaling the essence for all of recorded history.
To say one should never do anything which is dangerous or harmful to the body is to make an idol of the body. We exist first and foremost for God and each other, not for our own health or longevity.
True, if people were as concerned as they pretend to be in the comments about unhealthy things, they wouldnt drive cars. Millions and millions of people die annually of car accidents, so is driving immoral? No.
I agree. Everything made by God is given to man in balance, avoiding idolatry. I'd say even people whom we love can become our idols if viewed improperly. Its good to be healthy, as it is a sign of appreciation of the gift of life. Its a good thing to exercise, for example, because it shows we are using our bodies in the way they were designed to be used. Yet there are many health nuts who have a glorified view of the human body
@@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd I do, yes. One of the most destructive things a parent can do for their child is overprotect them from the world. Part of a healthy childhood is being able to go out and adventure in the world, to play a bit dangerously, to get hurt from time to time. That is not to say you simply abandon children to the whims of chance, but should we allow children to do some things which are potentially hazardous for their health? Yes, absolutely. It is good for the growth of their character.
@@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd do people exclusively drive vehicles out of necessity, or do people drive for pleasure too?
And another thing, pleasure on Earth *always* comes with risk.
@@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd As with many things, the most accurate answer is "it depends." Or in other words, take things in moderation. Consider the joys of climbing a tree or exploring a forest, of playful wrestling and fighting, of learning to wield a tool which is at once empowering and potentially destructive. There is always risk when we engage in the world, even open profession of the faith brings risk. But to deny Christ as Peter did, to extend one's life, is to damn oneself. Likewise, though less extreme, to deny the goods which flow from some activities for sake of health is to damage one in another, potentially far more serious manner.
In your case, to say that God does not come before the health and longevity of your children appears to me to risk losing your children in the long-term. Of what good is their earthly life if they lose their eternal life?
Refer to father Ripberger, he gave an excellent speech about temperance, moderation, plus he said in itself it’s not morally evil and it says you can drift into Mortal sin. So smoking in its self is not sinful. Believe it or not father Ripberger said smoking does have attributes and drawbacks. When it comes to health. Use the search, and put in “is smoking sinful “ by Fr. Ripperger.
My grandfather smoked a pipe, he never got cancer and was pretty temperate.
That's an exception.
@@mosheeliyahu8343 you dont know that.
@@nardoritardeau2291 ....Dude. really?
@@mosheeliyahu8343 dude really?
@@mosheeliyahu8343 It's NOT an exception.
Feels like a dishonest conversation you guys didn’t mention vanity or nicotine lol it’s a drug that’s why it’s relaxing and enjoyable to your brain. Very convenient that Matt didn’t mention that. Also certain men think they look cool or feel masculine from cigars.
yeah and smocking ends the lives of many people each year
Drinking alcohol is not a sin.
Also is sugar or alcohol... So technically it was the equivallent...
You do realize alcohol is also a drug LOL!!! The ignorance of some people…
Recall the wedding at Cana. Remember the priest at each Eucharist. The criteria for something to be allowed is the law of God. The criteria for something to be sinful is not science nor feelings.
Fr. Mike??? Helen here from St. Anne’s!
God gave His creation to have pure air to breathe, so that we can better serve Him. He also gave us bodily organs which can filter toxins that eventually get eliminated from the body.
Here's the problem: Do I deliberately corrupt the air that God created for me to have pleasures, knowing that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?
If one ingests corrupted air or food unintentionally, he or she would be exonerated. But if one ingests intentionally, he or she would be accountable before God.
"Therefore to him who knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17.
The things is your not inhaling “corrupted air” It’s all about flavor and comfort. It’s no different than coffee as far as why we drink coffee.
Agreed. I would define cigars as "polluted air", since they contain the same addictive, toxic and carcinogenic compounds found in cigarettes.
I guess you don't use internal combustion engines either or electricity generated by coal power plants? Give me a break.
@@divinecomedian2
Those can always be detoxed out of the body by antioxidant foods and nutrition, instead of intentional inhalation of cigarettes and cigars
The delicious flavor of tobacco? Seriously? @@reneespinosa5460
So many puritans on this comment section
Peoples problem is they listen to the world too much. I smoke cigars and been Catholic 8.5 years. Couldn't tell you how many people told me to quit.
But I later learned how many Catholic men in my parish smoked them, I also learned how to not tell people about my cigars.
From sweets to heroine to medication to bare necessities of life, NO SUBSTANCE DEPENDANCE. Deut. 8:3, Matt. 6:31-33.
Honest question here, no venom or disrespect intended. I go weeks between cigars, would that qualify as substance dependence? In my opinion, no. But I understand the opposing viewpoints on the issue.
What I'm trying to convey is about more than a mere addiction. I mean to say that the only thing that makes a consumable bad is one's attachment thereto. Heroine and cocaine have additional malevolence inherent in their use, but this should not obfuscate the main consideration when choosing to ingest or otherwise consume: whether or not such a thing pleases God; whether or not we want it more than to be obedient to Him in all things; whether we can choose to go without it for His sake.
Don't be attached. ¡Solo Dios basta!
(Really this thought extends to choices games, entertainment, sports, company... any form of pleasure in this life.)
Can you go without? @@Athonite
Sigh. These comments. Guys, it's not a sin. So stop worrying about it. If you are making yourself sick by consuming too much tabacco, then that is sinful. We are all going to die. Moderate use won't hasten that reality. Which is a reality, all the same.
Well put Brendan.
It is a sin many false prophets have come into the world lieing to people why does it make u a slave to it then (addiction )
Most herbs and alcohol and health supplements are toxic. And health tablets extremely toxic with a daily limit. So to what end are you having something? This and the relative side effects are the only consideration, with the context being the orientation and intent of the heart.
Not sinful, just gross.
Tobacco raises your testosterone
The “ it’s a plant” reasoning is very lazy and a cop out. It would be better if Matt just admitted he has a Vice and that he’s not perfect like every other man. Sure, if we grade it subjectivily, then maybe it’s not on the level of other vices, but it still is a Vice nonetheless that is not required for survival and is purely for pleasure WHILE doing very bad damage to your body.
So I’m assuming you have a 100% organic, 100% processed and synthetic free life absolutely free of any pharmaceuticals whatsoever, including injectables - correct? Otherwise you have a vice in the abuse of your body with food and drugs. Because processed fake food harms your body Waymore than cigars. Arguably the vice of gluttony. Pharmaceuticals are all harmful to your body, even if you get a perceived benefit, and therefore a vice.
We are not menonites.
I don't think that is actually bad for you the way you think it is.
@@verum-in-omnibus1035 If you're not saying the only options are to (1) be 100% free of organic, processed and synthetic consumption or to (2) allow anything to be consumed, then what are you saying?
idk, i wont either way. at least maybe once a year is good
You can tell who was a baptist before converting lol
So it's okay to have lung cancer.
Alcohol can cause cancer, so can sunlight. Should we blot out the sun too?
@@basedshaman6183 lying half naked in the sun for too long can cause you cancer
Also 3x more likely to get periodontal disease.
Can you talk about nicotine and chewing tobacco. I can’t find anything about it online
Can cause all kinds of cancer including mouth.
cigar and pipe smoking can increase the risk of tooth loss. A 2000 study found that cigar and pipe smokers have similar adverse effects on tooth loss and periodontal health as cigarette smokers.
If we're talking about the addictive nature of things we should also mention coffee probably 😶
Absolutely!
Is it as toxic or cancer causing?
I'm also a fan of board games. lol
Maaate. This guy is Zavage!!
Them listing the supposed benefits of smocking in their lives is like people that wants to justify porn and so they starts listing the benefits of porn in their lives.
Have you ever had more alcoholic beverages than you should have at once? Then you have committed a far worse sin.
@@nardoritardeau2291
"Have you ever had more alcoholic beverages than you should have at once? Then you have committed a far worse sin."
That is just a Tu quoque fallacy.
@@Maarten927 i wasn't presenting an argument so no, but whatever. I just wanted you to think about consuming substances in a different way. Alcohol is not inherently immoral, neither is tobacco. They are just stuff. Porn is inherently immoral and I'm sure I don't have to tell you why since you're on this channel. By the way you yourself are incorrectly comparing 2 utterly different things in your comment, which is a logical fallacy itself lol.
I would encourage you to TALK TO PRIESTS ABOUT THIS like I did. I will never ever tell anybody to consume cigarettes made by Big Tobacco, but using natural tobacco is safe in moderation.
No actually it’s not at all the same. So I’m assuming you have a 100% organic, 100% processed and synthetic free life absolutely free of any pharmaceuticals whatsoever, including injectables - correct? Otherwise you have a vice in the abuse of your body with food and drugs. Because processed fake food harms your body Waymore than cigars. Arguably the vice of gluttony. Pharmaceuticals are all harmful to your body, even if you get a perceived benefit, and therefore a vice.
There are explicit commandments against porn.
Yes
The point about cigars being all leaf... Isn't marijuana the same thing?
1 Peter 5:8-9
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
@@ClobinWilliams precisely! One doesn't smoke weed to remain "sober minded". This is why I'm ok with smoking cigars occasionally but not weed. Not because "it's all leaf".
What about vaping? (Yes, I vape)
Tobacco is very helpful in curing tonsil pain. Tobacco was not given only to be smoked, it has other uses.
What evidence and uses are you referring to?
Tobacco intake limits your body's healing capabilities.
@@clarad7669 I am talking about using fresh tobacco leaf. Put some honey on it and put it around neck. It helps.
Thanks for your reply. Usually pain in the tonsils would be caused by some viral or bacterial infection inside the body, or trauma to the area. I am just not sure how external application would therefore be helpful, but doesn't sound like it would do much harm so why not
@@clarad7669 It can help when you have third tonsil. I am not sure if I named it correctly.
Tobacco is also useful for slowing blood loss from wounds, especially when used as a poultice.
We should remember that WE will be judged based on the fallacy with which we judge others. Let’s love ❤️ one another
☝️
NOPE ITS NOT..... its just a stupid thing to do
I'm sympathetic to the act but ultimately I think most of the justifications follow with some form of spiritual dependency.
If I had to make an argument for I would say it embraces mortality. And then expound upon that.
embraces mortality? How so?
Lol video ended at 4:20
The same reasoning you guys use to defend cigars could be employed to defend pornography, @n@l sex, or masturbation. I'm going to have to strongly disagree here. The post hoc reasoning here to justify what you are already doing isn't exactly honest.
I wish I could see the dislikes on this video lol
Got the next best thing, the comments lmao
192 likes 29 dislikes
You can.
The tragedy is not seeing your dislikes…
I heartily agree. Cigars are a wonderful addiction so long as you don’t let them become a habit.
Aren’t addictionsaddictions habits?
@@danielsampong6607Not as I understand the words; habits are behaviors and addiction is a state of being. There are good and bad versions of both so it’s easy to mix the two. I have a habit of being polite. I have an addiction to the feeling of being honest, as examples.
I wouldn’t use the word addiction. If you are using in moderation then you are less likely to be addicted.
If you are addicted, you cannot stop. You are a slave.@@RootballJohnson
No
Is it okay to use vape ?
in moderation
@@Cruizzerr wdym ? English is my can you be more specific
@@catbilota2492 In my opinion, it should be avoided, as it is highly addicting and habit-forming. Addiction takes away your freedom - you become dependent on a drug to be at peace. Many of my friends are addicted to their vapes, and I used to be, too. Addiction is not good. To use a vape is to play with fire, because you most likely will become addicted. Talk to your priest, pray about it, and follow your conscience.
@@shadowlinks99 well said
Qaneh Bosm was and has always been a Holy Incense, and unlike tobacco does not kill.
what about ripping darts or chewing/packing dip or snuff
chewing tobacco, also known as smokeless tobacco, can cause cancer in the mouth, tongue, gums, stomach, esophagus, and bladder. It contains at least 28 cancer-causing chemicals, including tobacco-specific nitrosamines, which are formed during the tobacco growing, curing, fermenting, and aging process.
It's the same fundamentalist mindset. Just because it may not be good for you doesn't mean it's immoral. By that logic, you're sinning every time you eat McDonald's even a little bit. Granted, maybe we shouldn't eat it because it's very bad for us, but it isn't sinful. We need to get used to the fact that everything is killing us. So stop obsessing and letting health anxiety ruin your life. It makes you anxious and anxiety like that is also hazardous to your health.
It's funny how some people try so hard to be cool but ultimately end up looking more Nerdy....
Pray That I Will Pray The Rosary The Divine Mercy Practice The Golden Rule The Beatitudes Forgiveness Of Enemies All My Priest Friends For The Pope That I Will Live Peacefully With My Neighbors Forsake My Bad Habits Flee Evildoers That Blessings Will Come Upon My Property Belongings Life Health That I Will Trust In Jesus And Mary
Okay what about cigarettes
I watched the later segment about the pipe...and that spiraled into me thinking on it for a week.
As of a month ago, I am an avid, but occasional pipe smoker...it's so much more relaxing, flavorful, and it does not SMELL. If using an aromatic blend, it is so nice to smell the smoke (in light doses, not a heaving amount).
But I agree: God gave us plants and such...the leaf produces nicotine when smoked...nicotine is relaxing to the body...if not abusing it, but taking pleasure in it every now and again as a sense to unwind, entertain and reflect on all the goodness of life, God and so forth: not a sin.
Me personally though? I would see someone smoking a pipe EVERYDAY as sinful...because like cigarettes at that point: you're using it in unhealthy levels...every now and again, maybe like once a week or month, no biggie...that's reasonable....but like, 3 times a day EVERY day? That's A LOT of tobacco and a LOT of smoking...not so good, chief. And hey, if it's not substance abuse to that person, good on them because then it's not really sinful....but it would certainly be imprudent and grounds for venial sin.
Anyways, loved this discussion (as always).
Cheers. God bless you all!
Pax Christi. Ave Maris Stella.
God also created the coca plant which produces cocaine and the opium poppy which produces heroine.
i think any addiction is dangerous to your soul, but I don't know how pipes and cigars compare to cigarettes in that way.
I think it will depend on how it affects you.
Tobacco is tobacco, nicotine is nicotine.
I've been there, done it all, justified it, just like they do.
There is no moderation with poison.
@@Michael-Archonaeus ok
@@Michael-Archonaeus there is moderation. Unless yoi are an addict that cannot control yourself
@@a.d1287 How much poison is the right amount?
@@Michael-Archonaeus I use tobacco moderately and am not addicted. Maybe everyone is different. Just like I can drink alcohol without being dependant on it.
Yes, the body is a temple of the Holy Ghost
Will the holy ghost dwell in a temple full of poison?
@@Michael-Archonaeus It is not the things which enter a man's mouth that defiles him. Participating in the modern cult of the body is not good for you. The fact is that the Catholic faith is like "a thick steak, a glass of win, and a cigar" according to Chesterton-that is that you should savor all 4 of these things slowly.
@@kzizzles8329 Yeah, I definitely reject that.
Jesus was saying you don't have to ritually cleanse yourself before each meal, he wasn't telling you to be a gluttonous alcoholic and a masochist🙄
@@Michael-Archonaeus Ad hominem. There is a distinction between gluttonous abuse of something and temperate use. It is not intrinsically sinful to enjoy a steak; it is, however, a sin to eat steak until I vomit. Likewise, it is not a sin to drink alcohol-Our Blessed Lord did and does not prohibit it (St. Paul is another who does not prohibit alcohol and actually advises Timothy to use it for his stomach)-but it is a sin to drink to excess in such a way that you lose your ability to reason. This is a puritanical attack on something that Christ's Church as not condemned as inately harmful to one's spiritual growth-on the contrary there are many saints who have been quite taken with tobacco and enjoyed it temperartely.
@@kzizzles8329 Ad hominem? What are you talking about? Who did I personally attack?
It is gluttonous to eat meat all the time, no need to vomit.
The lord's prayer doesn't go "give us this day our daily grass fed steak."
It is a sin to get drunk, unless on rare occasions like once or twice a year. Jesus told people not to get drunk with sweet wine, sweet wine is wine that's not that old, so it implies frequent drinking.
Timothy was using wine medicinally, don't use that as an excuse.
We have evidence of Jesus drinking alcohol once in his entire life, it was one cup of wine, which he shared with 12 other people, at the passover.
Tobacco is just poison, so if you are using it, then you are consciously engaging in self-harm, that's all I have to say about that.
Pope Pius X and Padre Pio smoked cigarettes.
Does that make it right though ?
Just because a pope did something doesn't make it good or right.
@@Cropmy5 I never said anything of the sort
@@Rachen1992 then what did you mean by mentioning those two people?
@@Cropmy5 it's an interesting fact
Yeah, tabacoo in moderation is great. But Fr. Mike's argument about the goodness of creation isn't the best. You could use that to justify any number of psychotropic plants.
Ahhh, but open your mind. What if...in moderation. Or should we say that the blight on nature has warped some plants beyond their intended purpose. Or is it us diluting and supplementing those plants to a point where surpass temperance/lose responsibility the real culprit we are looking for?
Columbians used to chew coca leaf like we'd drink coffee.
What's great about it?
Coca/cocaine and Heroine/Opium Poppies
Surelly it's useless.
This is just like listening to an alcoholic or a drug addict justifying his vice.
There is literally no difference.
Decades of propaganda peddling tobacco, followed by decades of propaganda peddling apocalyptic consequences of tobacco. Perhaps we should ban alcohol again, you know, since Our Blessed Lord Never drank a drop of alcohol in his 30 years on this earth.
Not everything "natural" is good as they both say "just leaf". Arsenic, booze, marijuana, tobacco.
Why did God create Marijuana and Opium? What I’m seeing is two guys justifying a behavior within their conservative-Catholic bro culture and happy to dismiss the behaviors of people outside that culture as morally repugnant.
Isn’t the difference that Coca Cola gives you strength and sustains your body and cigarettes have no benefits at all in sustaining you body?
Unhealthy, adictive, stinky
its indulgence and hedonism in the end.. we can justify it all day long though
The body is a temple, and the temple needs incense.
lol, that's good🤣
out of context
@@prylonestrocio yeah it's a joke bro.
😂😂😂
Everything in moderation.
So porn in moderation is ok?
@@Maarten927 anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already comitted adultery with her in his heart
@@abrahamkassis3138 what if your single??
@@digitalfrank3457 years ago my answer would be wayyy different lol now im just gonna say pray
@@abrahamkassis3138 So not *everything* (e.g., porn) in moderation?
Eh I dip. I've dipped since I was 12. No worse than a lot of other things we never even think about.
Citing other's wrong doing to deflect from your own is an obnoxious and cowardly trick.
It's not a sin. Geez. These comments from religious Pharisees.
Okay so, tobacco is right because it's a plant, but Marijuana is not right, even when tobacco ALSO affects the brain. And masturbation is not right even when it's demonstrated that many ejaculations per week helps to avoid some organic problems. It's hard to follow you when there is too much cherrypicking
excuses excuses go be a perv elsewhere
It depends, but generally speaking yes. Wisdom says that if you have to ask the question of whether something is a sin or not, then you should probably avoid that thing, and peruse things you know are good.
Especially in social media justifying in conversation...!!! Matt all I'm saying don't do it while doing your work (God's work)😔💞🙏
I wonder how this could help or hurt to develop the virtue of detachment... Isn't the ideal to be attached to nothing but God, and to love people and things for the sake of God?
I don't see how tobacco use would help with that... unless taken for medical reasons... if there are any such uses.
Hipster Catholics 🤦
Pot is also a rolled dried leaf
God gave us shroom and the marijuana? Nothing is added to that either. Come on man. We gotta be equal.
If it is addictive, forget it. Moderation also directs us to avoid leading ourselves into dangerous situations. Secondly, does he roll the cigars himself to be sure there is nothing in there dangerous?
Do you make all your own food? Do you grind your own coffee?
You guys honestly sound like a bunch of attic just to find their addiction
Tobacco is the incense of the laity
Your body is the temple of God, and no, that’s not blessed incense.
You are desecrating the temple of the Holy Ghost.
You're a low-key guy Matt it's not going to hurt you hopefully, as for me I'm high strung. I get that kind of rising tobacco stimulant in me, and it's not as conducive to conversation. I like to stick to stuff that kind of chills me out... It may affect my mind but I'm hoping in the long run I can continue to practice the metaphysic.
If you're referring to weed you're kidding yourself.
There are various medicines that work in nature. There's a spiritualistic Native American tobacco that they grow here. I'm not saying that tobacco is good or bad for you, but I'm saying if you have more of a cooler mentality, it may not affect you as negatively. Similar to caffeine and coffee some people just don't tolerate it well. There's a good amount of evidence in Chinese medicine that the herbs in nature such as tobacco can be very beneficial. Just do a little bit of work to research herbology generally and you will see it has benefited mankind for ages. The dried leaf argument holds here.
@@nickwarner1290 ? So we're you talking about tobacco or weed then?
Oh ffs...
Bottom line is it"s a pleasure of the flesh , ,we are suppose to live in the spirit not indulge in the flesh.
Best be careful that you don’t make your meals too delicious then
It's not wrong to take pleasure in worldly things so long as it's not a sin and be used in moderation
@@samuelmoore5160 We have to eat (in moderation). We do not need tobacco.
First
Smocking ends the lives of more than 8 million people each year. Watching inappropriate things on a screen ends basically zero people lives each year. Both are sins whether we like it or not.
Cigarettes are completely different from cigars
@@lucidlocomotive2014 Neither one is a sin, so, there ya go.
@@lucidlocomotive2014Cigar smoking has many similar consequences as cigarette smoking, including four to 10 times the risk of dying from oral, esophageal or laryngeal cancer in comparison to non-smokers. 4
@@RCGWho yeah it probably isn’t healthy for you but it’s not even remotely close to as deadly as habitual cigarette smoking
The mere fact that nicotine is involved should repulse you. STOP feeding sinful motives, I beg.
Also most people don’t get to enjoy cigars becuase they are insanely expensive at least the good ones. That’s why cigars are associated with rich guys/mobsters etc. Matt/this priest gaining wealth from “ministry” and flaunting cigars is not a great look.
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Many cigars are very affordable. I know you probably think all priests are supposed to be like Fryer Tuck from Robin Hood, but they do get to enjoy certain things out of life. They all ready gave up their ability to get married, have children, and they are celibate.
Decent cigars aren't necessarily expensive.
@@fossil-bit8439 Cigars are like 8 bucks a pop, not bad at all. You could buy in bulk , 50 or so for like 100 bucks, so I agree heavily with your point.
Matt.....both you and the clown on the other side of the table are in denial.
Ah sweet so we're calling priests clowns now. Gotcha.