I would be very interested to see more videos on traditional infantry tactics and how they stack up in Warhammer. I loved your Tercio videos and I'm curious to see more historical formations in action. Thanks for your hard work!
I wouldn't have thought the wedge would be so effective. Consider testing the efficacy of reserve units. In this video all the units engaged in battle, it is my belief that this is very important but units do get tired in battle so having reserve troops to replace the tired ones could be effective. Both the Romans and the Zulus would keep veterans in reserve, consider testing whether the veterans are better used in the initial engagement or as a reserve force and of course test against the baseline of just engaging with everyone all at once. I really like using massed Skinks with javelins in my Lizardmen campaigns, their speed and throwing weapons make them similar to the Zulu I think and enemy ranged units can actually be torn apart by the relatively weak Skinks. Add in Kroxigor and Red Crested Skinks as thematic and useful additional tools for the formation and maybe the melee Chameleon Skinks to absorb ranged fire from the front.
Haha bro it surprised me too! When I was testing these all out I was actually a little disheartened with how badly the Elves lost in the opening line battle. I wasn't sure if these formations would do anything to help but it was so cool seeing how they could turn things around. That's a good idea with the Veteran Reserves and definitely something I'll look into. I've been thinking of using Lizardmen as well for one of these, I feel like they'd be a good Roman analogue, maybe even Carthage as well with their Dinos acting as Hannibal's elephants. Cheers bud!
This is by far my favorite warhammer content, the actual formation implementation. It's a testament to how good the game designers are that these actually translate into the game.
Bro thank you so much! I have to say when I started these videos it was eye opening for me as well seeing things in action. It's one thing to read about a formation or see a diagram of it, but seeing how it kinda actually plays out is so cool. I totally agree, it really is amazing how the designers did such a good job that these tactics actually work
Not really, AI in total war always charging into a blob, If you position your infantry in a straight line you still gonna be able to flank them no matter what. These tactics work flawlessly because the AI in total war was a joke for century now, of the way to play total war is to turn off your brain or role playing
The echelon is my go-to with armies that have short-ranged missile troops. I follow each unit of infantry with a short-ranged missile unit, try to maintain the echelon through the point of contact with the enemy infantry, then have the missiles right-turn at the point of engagement so they can fire down the flank of the engaged enemy at each step of the echelon. My infantry tend to take most enemy missile fire, allowing my own shorter ranged missiles to do good work unoposed.
Oh man thanks so much that’s so awesome to hear! I’ll definitely look into doing more like these, see what other infantry formations I can come up with
Your videos are always great, gotta say I'm low-key looking forward to watching them while working always :). These battle lines and other variants work great in campaigns especially, as the AI tries to fight in lines. Using guns to cut into the blobbed units diagonally destroys the infantry lines really guick, especially combined with with shock cav charges. I personally use a kind of reverse wedge - with flanks being forward (made up of cheaper line infantry), and the middle withdrawn (made up of elie attack troops and "unprotected" ranged units). With that tactic, the enemy either tries to go for expensive units in the middle and lets themselves be bogged down in a cheap infantry sandwich, or goes for forward flanks, and blobs around them, splitting their forces. In the first case, the sandwich reduces their leadership as they are flanked, no matter what kind of numerical advantage they have. Combined assault infantry, shock cav and gun volley into them usually routes the whole blob real quick. The center is also such a juicy artillery target! In the latter case, the smaller blobs on both flanks are even more exposed to charges and gun volleys, but less so to artillery. Just gotta be careful to kill the blobs before your surrounded flanks collapse, I usually reinforce them with lords. As I usually play Kislev (cause no other faction start offers as much challenge, plus I am a big fan of winged hussars), the frontline of Armored Kossars with a center of Kossars or Streltsi and bears does the trick. 2 Gryphon Legion units behind the flanks secure them from being overrun too early, and is always ready to counter cav and shock charge.
Thanks so much brother! That really means a lot I'm glad you've been enjoying them. When I was doing this I was thinking with the Echelon it'd be really cool to try and do a checkerboard with it, using ranged units behind, love the idea of them shooting through the different angles. And that reverse wedge sounds awesome I'll have to look into it! Cheers bro!
The Infantry Wedge is my go-to Tactic with my Tomb Kings; Skeleton Warriors with spears, and a unit of tomb Guard with polearms as the tip of the formation, they can beat most infantry lines. send a prince on foot to support the Guard, and you can counter most elite or monsters they may face.
Niiice man I love Tomb Kings they're so badass! Do you still use that into the late game? I'd imagine Tomb Guard along the wings with a solid core of Ushabti or something would be brutal!
Thanks so much bro and thank you for watching! I’ll look into that for sure, off the top of my head I’m thinking of typical Hammer and Anvil but I’ll see what else I can come up with/find
What i tend to do when im playing as someone other than skaven, so long as its not up against a particularly cavalry focused faction, is to set up a line of mellee infantry, with two to four anti large infantry at the edges of the formation at an angle, with archers behind the lines, with a few units of particularly strong or fast infantry behind them to reinforce where needed or to flank, and generally when the enemy doesnt have cavalry i can seing those arms of spearmen/halberds etc out to flank as well
Bro thank you for watching! That's really great I'm so glad this has been able to help you out. Blessings upon you as well brother! Cheers, I really appreciate it!
@@MalleusGaming57 I've gone through many of your videos now and created an image gallery of all the various formations. I'm looking forward to trying everything out. Wonderful content. If possible and of interest, I'd like to see some more advanced melee formations. However, all the more instructional stuff has been particularly excellent. thank you!
Fascinating Video. Gonna try out the wegde and see how much Fantasy Elements it can withstand. Would love to see you talk about different types of Formations and when to use them. I'm an Empire (In Warhammer, not the game. Tho i realy liked Naopleon total war) simp so i'd love to see more about gunpowder, but this is amazing aswell. Keep up the good Wörk!
Cheers bud glad you liked it! Let me know how your own tests fair. I've done quite a few videos on Gunpowder formations, check out the Total Tactics playlist on my channel if you'd like to see more. I've done videos on Tercios, the Dutch Battalions and the Swedish Brigades of the 16/17th centuries
I'll be configuring my first PC soon and intend on rinsing the hell out of all the Total War: Warhammer games. I can't wait to be experimenting with these tactics real time
A formation I like to use is similar to a checkerboard, but with slightly narrower gaps to discourage the AI from trying to slip through them. Behind I will use either specialized melee or ranged troops but in a really narrow formation that can squeeze through the gaps. This lets them get to the rear of the enemy really quickly to attack from behind
That's awesome! When I was doing this I was really surprised too at how well it worked, especially considering how in the standard line fight how badly I got wrecked by the orcs haha cheers bro! Glad your battles are going well!
Cheers bro glad you enjoyed it! This was eye opening for me as well, I wasn't expecting the different formations to have such a significant impact when I was initially testing them out. Appreciate it bud!
I always wanted to do the same tactics i use in historical titles, but then theres magic AoE attacks. Ironic how i like fantasy but i dont like the main themes of warhammer: Magic in the battlefield.
Yeah it's just something that has to be taken into account with these, I just like to think of Magic as artillery and take similar steps to deal with it
Bro I don't know what was going on with the Warboss. The Orcs were being controlled by the AI on Hard difficulty but he just didn't want to engage. In the initial 1v1 line battle I kept my Prince back as well since I saw the Warboss wasn't fighting, but when he kept holding back in the other battles I just said screw it I'm sending the Prince in haha The Warboss only became active in each battle after the Orcs had routed it was so weird
does skarbrand even use tactics? i usually charge him head on, press rampage, enemies go nuts, blob up around him and then all the other demons in the army nuke the blob
I just wish the single player campaign ai would attack when the battle is relatively even instead of only when they have ridiculous overwhelming force.
I hear that, there have been times where I was hoping for a a pretty good fight 1v1 or even 1v2 but then they don't until they bring in like 3 more armies, stupid AI haha
Try raising battle difficulty so they get more bonus to auto resolve They'll attack more aggressively and pump your ego when autoresolve says valiant defeat and you get a heroic victory
Comment for the comment God. Anyways, cool video and I should probably think of better tactics other than raining arrows from the highest ground or make another unit go all the way around to hit enemy units in the rear. Definitely triggered my interest into delving into actual effective tactics, thanks.
I disagree on quality rather then tactics. In my opinion the more units on the battlefield than the tactics matter more. From my own experience, I can say that I didn't like to play large battles until I learned to control large armies better and realized that tactics rather than small duels are important. Ofc you won't win with all spearman army vs all black orcs army but I'm sure you know what I mean :)
Hey! I already used those tactics many, many times. And with success :) My tips for using them: Oblique and echelon: your enemy must be... slow for it to work. All infantry preferred. If an enemy has some fast elements (f.e. cav) you need means to eliminate it fast. Because of this I mostly used this tactics vs undead factions. Remember to concentrate your forces and engage where you see chance to win and withdraw/deny engagement where you lose. Strong group go in, weak group go back. As for wedge it's more combined arms than inf tactic. Add some monsters/magic/arty/concentrated fire at the tip to break trough and then roll flanks. EZPZ. Remember that tip doesn't have to be in the middle of your/enemy force! Form tip where it is most likely to penetrate line! Also all of it works better with SFO mod, because units are more specialised and battles are longer.
Awesome bro! Thank you so much for the tips, that's all really good advice! Totally agree, it's best to neutralize the mobile elements of your enemy if you use these as quickly as possible and it's definitely ideal to avoid combat with your weaker units for as long as you possibly can. Everything you said is absolutely spot on! Cheers bud!
Most these seem to rely on out numbering the video. In the oblique order section, you doubled on the left and cut the video just beforebthe ignored unit on your right flank enveloped your right flank. It seems like its just trading tit for tat
I don't see how this could be useful. The same result would be possible by spreading units out a little bit, leaving one behind and then sending it to flank, while you preserve your front line. That's literally the exact same. The only possible advantage that I see from this, would be that it would expose the enemy flanks for your missile fire... At the cost that you won't have a reserve line, so if the enemy break any point through brute force, your entire army will enrcicled and doomed. Also you'll lose the abillity to focus fire with missiles and as your first missile start shooting the rest won't. Meaning this defensive formation will get absolutely crushed by anything that has missile, so you would instead have to use it offensively, but by doing so, one wing would reach quicker the enemy (taking focused/saturation) while the others are still lagging behind, making it very easily for the enemy crush one unit after other. The Wedge, if the enemy manages to break any point or the tip, your army will be encircled and blocked. Also another problem with these formations is that you won't be allowed any flexibility, you'll have to be stuck on this battleline, otherwise will expose your flanks. Beyond making things more complicated, requering more micro and babysitting, what's the point? Almost no positive and the negatives can mean army wipe instantly. Leave alone artillery and magic, any role and the army is gone.Terrible.
As someone who only played historical Total War titles for a long time, historical tactics like these are what made me enjoy the game so much. I've recently gotten into Warhammer TW, and I love that historical tactics have value!
I've been playing lately with ultra army size and the double unit size mod over that, try it sometime if your pc is able to handle it, i think it makes for epic game videos.
I’ve been wondering if there were more varied formations from history to try in Warhammer 3! I’m new to Total War and Battle line warfare. I thought it was all hammer and anvil all the way down, I can’t wait to try these tactics!
Bro let me know how it goes with them! I won't lie the typical line formation was what I used for the longest time before I started researching stuff for these videos. Cheers bud!
I don't really play multiplayer but I'll have to get some friends together and try it out. I don't think I have the patience to deal with randoms on it haha
The video is nice, apart from one thing that's bothering me. In the first example battle that you used as a baseline, you didn't use a lord, but you did use it in all of the tactic battles and also used it's ability. That makes for bad experimental design, it could be that the lords presence was a major factor in the result of the battle, perhaps even a bigger factor than the arrangement of troops.
Yeah it was super difficult not having the Orc Warboss interfere so I had to throw my Lord in as well, the initial battle I didn't have time to redo if I remember correctly. If I did this again I'd have a buddy hop on so we can just have the units fighting, or find a mod that removes the Lords
Don't forget the L formation, mainly with anti large units. very useful for protecting artillery and other units from rush/mount attacks while still being able to flex
I must be missing something big with this. Everytime I try to replicate the wedge the spearmen lose. Slowly at first, then when the waaagh hits they get torn to pieces. The prince in particular gets slapped around hard by the war boss.
So recording this was super weird, I had times where the Warboss would not fight, and times where he would join in and demolish stuff, times where he'd fight and not really do anything. In a perfect world I would have had someone else controlling the Orcs and just not had the Lords interfering. In this instance I think the Warboss held back for a little bit before charging in, which pretty much just gave the Elves enough time to punch through. The AI can be really odd sometimes
Nice which ones you play? I can't wait for a Medieval 3. And in Warhammer I've always kept my formations fairly compact, never really had too many issues, I try to prioritize enemy Wizards and Artillery
@@MalleusGaming57 perhaps horse archers would work best. the oblique order was used by prussia in the 18th century when everyone was using slow line formations, so fast moving armored infantry could be tough to use it against any thoughts on doing one of these videos on cavalry? hammer and anvil, feigned retreat is a personal fav
A lot of them would be more of the same since the added ranged component would be additional damage and pretty effective, but you could also do something like a Checkerboard Wedge, with two mirrored Echelons down the side and more units within, allowing them to have clear lines of fire but have your flanks be protected
@malleus gaming If a unit can not flank. Is it better to 2v1 a unit with melee from the same direction? Or should you keep 1 melee unit in reserve until the first one routs?
I’d say it’s better to add in the extra unit, that way there’s more mass of your units pushing back, plus it’ll be far more difficult for the enemy unit to isolate and surround individual models, letting your units last longer. Plus if your stacked units have spears or halberds they can get more attacks in
I play high elves and my favorite kind of battles are where I'm 1 stack against 4 stacks of enemies. No joke, the Tercio was a complete life changing formation. I've played for probably fifty hours and haven't lost a battle yet. genius.
Yes another brave Son of Ulthuan! Haha I've always loved the High Elves, I collect them in the tabletop game as well. And yeah bro those epic games where you're hopelessly outnumbered but come out on top! It's just the best feeling! Have you been using the Tercio with the Elves? How's it worked out for you?
@@MalleusGaming57 I wish they would give dragons upgrade already. They are so weak. They attack like two units at once even when Emerick is super strong it takes him forever to do anything and I’m falling asleep by the time the battle finishes.
It is very basic, but these formations are a good starting point. Personally, I prefer to use my infantry using some variations of formations, some of which were covered in previous videos. Others haven't been covered yet, but I'd like to see if it can bebshared here with similar results these include: -Byzantine infantry square (used by Empire, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Bretonnians) a variation of the original tercio video where 8 units of spearmen form a square. Unlike the tercio, the formation has archers/crossbowmen inside the square shooting supporting volleys. I also include some sword or halberd infantry if possible to help hold the formation. -triple aces (used by high elves) there aren't many good hybrid infantry units, but the Lothern Sea Guard provide an excellent unit to recreate a fantasy version of the Roman legions following the Marian reforms. Simply put, I bring 2-4 ballistae, 1 lord, and 10-15 lothern sea guard. Arrange them in a checkerboard pattern 3 rows deep and watch incoming enemies get impaled by bows or spears. If the enemy does try flanking, the units on the flank and 3rd row can change facing, shifting the formation into an infantry square. -Macedonian/Byzantine phalanx (used by anyone with any sort of missile troops) Generally speaking, this is the most common infantry formation players use, at least to some degree. Spearmen make a front line, flanked by infantry with either swords, halberds, or javelins. Behind them, archers/crossbowmen lend supporting volleys overhead, with any sort of artillery behind them. Protecting the wings of the army is your cavalry.
Looking forward to see a rendition of the famous Triplex Acies of ancient Rome. It's your out-of-the-box checkerboard pattern, but some historians argue that this pattern was utilized more during deployment as they would be screened by a wall/line of skirmishers in the frontmost ranks. As for when getting into combat, the front lines would spread out to create a continous wall of men, who would then get retreat into the second line's gap and repeating the cycle. I actually tried this in Shogun 2, and wow the ease of maneuverability when everyone was deployed in a square is amazing. Though, it can get relatively micro-intensive should you fight multiple fronts as you would need to constantly look for units which needs to be rotated.
Oh man that'd be so cool and you're right that'd be so micro intensive haha but its definitely something I want to cover at some point. Cheers brother!
i could watch a full on series of this! thanks for making man... Been using the false gap to good effect myself. Having a gap in the line a unit or two wide, with shock infantry / cav/ monsters waiting for the enemy to spread either side, then charging through and hitting them in the back. Its such a shame there's no "move back while looking forwards" sorts of commands, that'd open up so many more line tactics. If you try and move a unit back at the moment the enemy gets savage buffs on that unit. Line manouvers are too cool, would love to see more :)
Thanks so much bro that's really nice to hear! : ) The False Gap is great I'll have to do a deep dive on it at some point. And dude! Yeah like a simple "Walk friggin backwards" command would be amazing, it'd be so much better for just kiting your opponents a bit more! Cheers bud!
Something I used to do when playing Medieval 2 and Rome: TW was place a couple of missile cavalry behind my main battle line. They could fire over the infantry and while advancing, gave me a lot of flexibility.
I've been watching way too much TW TH-cam and these are some of the best videos. Lots of the content out there is really just someone reading in game information, speculating, or showing off some cheese. Whereas these show you something you can use in game to actually do better and have a better experience.
Thanks so much bro that really means a lot. I'm honestly surprised there aren't a lot more tactical videos but hey, glad I could fill in that gap. Cheers bud!
Those are by far my favourite TW:Warhammer guides! Just perfectly explained and I don't have to slow the videos down like with some others out there ;D
i would love to see more infantry tactics, if you google it, most you get is modern things or just a rough overview, glad i stumbled upon your channel, realy cool stuff
Oh yeah I hear that, even with like the Echelon here I kept finding stuff about tanks, ships and planes haha cheers bro glad you've been enjoying the content! I'll definitely be working on more
Well, if I'm being really hopeful I'd definitely love for the Middenland roster, things like Wolf Priests, Knights of the White Wolf and Teutogen Guard (so badass!) I'd also love an Engineer hero, maybe even units with Hochland Long Rifles for some long range sniping, and foot Reiksguard for some epic heavy infantry. As for the Dwarfs, an Engineer Lord legendary or otherwise, the missing Slayer types (Dragon and Daemon Slayers), and Doomseekers, Malakai's Axe Throwing war machine thing would be sick too.
Thank you so much bro! I was trying to be mindful of that and honestly this was a big experiment on my part just to see if doing things slightly differently could have a big effect. I appreciate it bud!
I'm definitely planning on doing a vid on the Boar's Head, was thinking of using Norsca for it, but yeah Beastmen would also be good. I wanna do the Zulu Horns of the Bull formation with Beastmen, using some actual Bulls I think would be hilarious
Oh definitely, even with this video when I saw how badly the Orcs won when it was just Line vs Line I was kinda expecting the worst with the formations but they really surprised me with how effective they were
Now I wonder what kind of realistic tactics you can cook with when you add the fantastical elements into this. Magic, monsters, flying units and war machines. As always great work on the video.
Cheers bro thank you so much! And yeah once you throw in those more fantastical elements I'm sure there'll be a ton of craziness you can pull off. Even like if you can just get the enemy to blob up then throwing a vortex or a dragon's breath on them would be devastating and super satisfying haha
Monster units are also good at devastating front lines. Trolls vs swordsmen tend to lose for the swordsmen unless the trolls take a bunch of damage at once. You can completely turn it around on an enemy wedge by just smashing through their spear with monsters and flooding their flanks. Or summoning zombies behind them.
Seeing actual tactical formations in Total War is always enjoyable, please keep it coming.
Will do bud! It's a lot of fun learning about these and adapting them for the game. Cheers bro!
I would be very interested to see more videos on traditional infantry tactics and how they stack up in Warhammer. I loved your Tercio videos and I'm curious to see more historical formations in action. Thanks for your hard work!
Thank you for watching brother! I'll definitely be looking into more and seeing what I can do with them, cheers bud!
I wouldn't have thought the wedge would be so effective. Consider testing the efficacy of reserve units. In this video all the units engaged in battle, it is my belief that this is very important but units do get tired in battle so having reserve troops to replace the tired ones could be effective. Both the Romans and the Zulus would keep veterans in reserve, consider testing whether the veterans are better used in the initial engagement or as a reserve force and of course test against the baseline of just engaging with everyone all at once. I really like using massed Skinks with javelins in my Lizardmen campaigns, their speed and throwing weapons make them similar to the Zulu I think and enemy ranged units can actually be torn apart by the relatively weak Skinks. Add in Kroxigor and Red Crested Skinks as thematic and useful additional tools for the formation and maybe the melee Chameleon Skinks to absorb ranged fire from the front.
Haha bro it surprised me too! When I was testing these all out I was actually a little disheartened with how badly the Elves lost in the opening line battle. I wasn't sure if these formations would do anything to help but it was so cool seeing how they could turn things around. That's a good idea with the Veteran Reserves and definitely something I'll look into. I've been thinking of using Lizardmen as well for one of these, I feel like they'd be a good Roman analogue, maybe even Carthage as well with their Dinos acting as Hannibal's elephants. Cheers bud!
@Malleus Gaming, this actually stacks well with some of the formations I mentioned in my comment.
This is by far my favorite warhammer content, the actual formation implementation. It's a testament to how good the game designers are that these actually translate into the game.
Bro thank you so much! I have to say when I started these videos it was eye opening for me as well seeing things in action. It's one thing to read about a formation or see a diagram of it, but seeing how it kinda actually plays out is so cool. I totally agree, it really is amazing how the designers did such a good job that these tactics actually work
Yea until you siege and you get ladders from their arse and spawnable defence towers with points...
Not really, AI in total war always charging into a blob, If you position your infantry in a straight line you still gonna be able to flank them no matter what. These tactics work flawlessly because the AI in total war was a joke for century now, of the way to play total war is to turn off your brain or role playing
@@goodmoney2998auto resolve!
The echelon is my go-to with armies that have short-ranged missile troops. I follow each unit of infantry with a short-ranged missile unit, try to maintain the echelon through the point of contact with the enemy infantry, then have the missiles right-turn at the point of engagement so they can fire down the flank of the engaged enemy at each step of the echelon. My infantry tend to take most enemy missile fire, allowing my own shorter ranged missiles to do good work unoposed.
Omg the short ranged missiles just firing down the line at the dudes next to them! I love it! That's such a great idea! Thanks so much bro!
Please make more videos like these! Probably one of my favorite Warhammer III videos.
Oh man thanks so much that’s so awesome to hear! I’ll definitely look into doing more like these, see what other infantry formations I can come up with
Your videos are always great, gotta say I'm low-key looking forward to watching them while working always :). These battle lines and other variants work great in campaigns especially, as the AI tries to fight in lines. Using guns to cut into the blobbed units diagonally destroys the infantry lines really guick, especially combined with with shock cav charges. I personally use a kind of reverse wedge - with flanks being forward (made up of cheaper line infantry), and the middle withdrawn (made up of elie attack troops and "unprotected" ranged units). With that tactic, the enemy either tries to go for expensive units in the middle and lets themselves be bogged down in a cheap infantry sandwich, or goes for forward flanks, and blobs around them, splitting their forces.
In the first case, the sandwich reduces their leadership as they are flanked, no matter what kind of numerical advantage they have. Combined assault infantry, shock cav and gun volley into them usually routes the whole blob real quick. The center is also such a juicy artillery target!
In the latter case, the smaller blobs on both flanks are even more exposed to charges and gun volleys, but less so to artillery. Just gotta be careful to kill the blobs before your surrounded flanks collapse, I usually reinforce them with lords.
As I usually play Kislev (cause no other faction start offers as much challenge, plus I am a big fan of winged hussars), the frontline of Armored Kossars with a center of Kossars or Streltsi and bears does the trick. 2 Gryphon Legion units behind the flanks secure them from being overrun too early, and is always ready to counter cav and shock charge.
Thanks so much brother! That really means a lot I'm glad you've been enjoying them. When I was doing this I was thinking with the Echelon it'd be really cool to try and do a checkerboard with it, using ranged units behind, love the idea of them shooting through the different angles. And that reverse wedge sounds awesome I'll have to look into it! Cheers bro!
The Infantry Wedge is my go-to Tactic with my Tomb Kings; Skeleton Warriors with spears, and a unit of tomb Guard with polearms as the tip of the formation, they can beat most infantry lines. send a prince on foot to support the Guard, and you can counter most elite or monsters they may face.
Niiice man I love Tomb Kings they're so badass! Do you still use that into the late game? I'd imagine Tomb Guard along the wings with a solid core of Ushabti or something would be brutal!
Fantastic Work as always my good sir!
Thank you so much brother! Glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the kind words! Cheers!
This was super awesome! Thank you and please make more like this. Could you do some tactics with combined arms? Especially cavalry and monster usage.
Thanks so much bro and thank you for watching! I’ll look into that for sure, off the top of my head I’m thinking of typical Hammer and Anvil but I’ll see what else I can come up with/find
What i tend to do when im playing as someone other than skaven, so long as its not up against a particularly cavalry focused faction, is to set up a line of mellee infantry, with two to four anti large infantry at the edges of the formation at an angle, with archers behind the lines, with a few units of particularly strong or fast infantry behind them to reinforce where needed or to flank, and generally when the enemy doesnt have cavalry i can seing those arms of spearmen/halberds etc out to flank as well
I just wanna thank you real quick because this video just made battles ‘click’ for me, I wish a blessing upon your house
Bro thank you for watching! That's really great I'm so glad this has been able to help you out. Blessings upon you as well brother! Cheers, I really appreciate it!
Thank you for this, it was quite eye opening!
Thank you for watching bro! Glad you enjoyed it!
@@MalleusGaming57 I've gone through many of your videos now and created an image gallery of all the various formations. I'm looking forward to trying everything out. Wonderful content. If possible and of interest, I'd like to see some more advanced melee formations. However, all the more instructional stuff has been particularly excellent. thank you!
Fascinating Video. Gonna try out the wegde and see how much Fantasy Elements it can withstand.
Would love to see you talk about different types of Formations and when to use them. I'm an Empire (In Warhammer, not the game. Tho i realy liked Naopleon total war) simp so i'd love to see more about gunpowder, but this is amazing aswell.
Keep up the good Wörk!
Cheers bud glad you liked it! Let me know how your own tests fair. I've done quite a few videos on Gunpowder formations, check out the Total Tactics playlist on my channel if you'd like to see more. I've done videos on Tercios, the Dutch Battalions and the Swedish Brigades of the 16/17th centuries
I'll be configuring my first PC soon and intend on rinsing the hell out of all the Total War: Warhammer games. I can't wait to be experimenting with these tactics real time
Yo that's awesome you're definitely gonna enjoy them bro they're amazing games!
A formation I like to use is similar to a checkerboard, but with slightly narrower gaps to discourage the AI from trying to slip through them. Behind I will use either specialized melee or ranged troops but in a really narrow formation that can squeeze through the gaps. This lets them get to the rear of the enemy really quickly to attack from behind
Oooo that's sneaky! Smart thinking I love it! I'll have to try that out cheers bro!
Came for warhammer tips, stayed for the history lesson!
Haha cheers bro!
I've started using the wedge with ranged battalions on the wings but it's impressive how much more deadly my basic dwarf Warriors are now
That's awesome! When I was doing this I was really surprised too at how well it worked, especially considering how in the standard line fight how badly I got wrecked by the orcs haha cheers bro! Glad your battles are going well!
Literally what I was looking for! WOOO
Haha glad it could be helpful for you bro!
Absolutely loved this video. Good content
Cheers bro glad you enjoyed it! This was eye opening for me as well, I wasn't expecting the different formations to have such a significant impact when I was initially testing them out. Appreciate it bud!
Great tutorial thank you
Glad you enjoyed it but thank you for watching!
really good content
Cheers bro thanks so much!
really love the videos dude
Thanks a lot my dude glad you've been enjoying them!
Very nice
Cheers bud thank you!
Thank you
Bro thank you for watching!
What about withdrawing/rejecting the centre? Like Hannibal in Cannae
That's something I wanna look more into, I did touch upon it a bit in my Pincer Movement video if you wanna check that out
This good video.
Glad you enjoyed it
I wish that in total war warhammer 3 there was a way to not have single digit units
that could make some tactics more possible
I've made a lot of videos featuring entire armies making use of formation tactics
@@MalleusGaming57 yeah i watched em
I always wanted to do the same tactics i use in historical titles, but then theres magic AoE attacks.
Ironic how i like fantasy but i dont like the main themes of warhammer: Magic in the battlefield.
Yeah it's just something that has to be taken into account with these, I just like to think of Magic as artillery and take similar steps to deal with it
why didn't you establish baseline in 5 v 5 wall fight so we know baseline loses
I did in the introduction? What do you mean by wall fight?
For the algorithm!
You didn’t put the warboss near his troops a few times so they lost leadership bonus
Bro I don't know what was going on with the Warboss. The Orcs were being controlled by the AI on Hard difficulty but he just didn't want to engage. In the initial 1v1 line battle I kept my Prince back as well since I saw the Warboss wasn't fighting, but when he kept holding back in the other battles I just said screw it I'm sending the Prince in haha The Warboss only became active in each battle after the Orcs had routed it was so weird
👍
Thanks bud!
These historical tactics videos have changed the way I play the game for the better. Thank you for doing khorne's work.
does skarbrand even use tactics? i usually charge him head on, press rampage, enemies go nuts, blob up around him and then all the other demons in the army nuke the blob
@@caindis-abel-dhisbrother9601 khorne cares not from where the blood flows. Only that it does.
@Sword Pvnk That is awesome to hear bro I'm so glad these have been helpful for you! An efficient Blood God is a happy Blood God haha
@Cain dis-Abel-d his brother I mean to be fair a head long charge would technically be considered a tactic... Skarbrand just really makes it work haha
HERESY!!
I love how you explain it with history examples, top quality content
Thanks so much bro! I really appreciate it!
Ah man that gave me so much more structure with my frontline units. Thanks and please keep them coming!
Awesome glad to hear it bro! Thank you for watching!
I just wish the single player campaign ai would attack when the battle is relatively even instead of only when they have ridiculous overwhelming force.
I hear that, there have been times where I was hoping for a a pretty good fight 1v1 or even 1v2 but then they don't until they bring in like 3 more armies, stupid AI haha
Try raising battle difficulty so they get more bonus to auto resolve
They'll attack more aggressively and pump your ego when autoresolve says valiant defeat and you get a heroic victory
Comment for the comment God.
Anyways, cool video and I should probably think of better tactics other than raining arrows from the highest ground or make another unit go all the way around to hit enemy units in the rear. Definitely triggered my interest into delving into actual effective tactics, thanks.
Likes for the Like Throne! Haha cheers buddy thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed this and let me know how it goes in your battles!
Stinkin knife-ears are no match for da boyz Waaaagh!
Oh dear it appears the mushrooms are getting uppity again! Quick! Someone get my spear! Haha cheers bro!
Too bad campaign game devolves quickly into battles of 30+ units. Messy and usually are dictated by army quality rather than tactics.
I do have to say that the smaller battles are really fun, every unit has to be used more efficiently for sure
I disagree on quality rather then tactics. In my opinion the more units on the battlefield than the tactics matter more. From my own experience, I can say that I didn't like to play large battles until I learned to control large armies better and realized that tactics rather than small duels are important.
Ofc you won't win with all spearman army vs all black orcs army but I'm sure you know what I mean :)
Hey! I already used those tactics many, many times. And with success :) My tips for using them:
Oblique and echelon: your enemy must be... slow for it to work. All infantry preferred. If an enemy has some fast elements (f.e. cav) you need means to eliminate it fast. Because of this I mostly used this tactics vs undead factions. Remember to concentrate your forces and engage where you see chance to win and withdraw/deny engagement where you lose. Strong group go in, weak group go back.
As for wedge it's more combined arms than inf tactic. Add some monsters/magic/arty/concentrated fire at the tip to break trough and then roll flanks. EZPZ.
Remember that tip doesn't have to be in the middle of your/enemy force! Form tip where it is most likely to penetrate line!
Also all of it works better with SFO mod, because units are more specialised and battles are longer.
Awesome bro! Thank you so much for the tips, that's all really good advice! Totally agree, it's best to neutralize the mobile elements of your enemy if you use these as quickly as possible and it's definitely ideal to avoid combat with your weaker units for as long as you possibly can. Everything you said is absolutely spot on! Cheers bud!
@@MalleusGaming57 Thanks mate! :)
Coolest video I’ve seen in a very long time. Thanks so much
Bro thanks so much! That's great to hear and thank you for watching!
@@MalleusGaming57 specifically tying the history of the battle formations into the video is really interesting.
Most these seem to rely on out numbering the video. In the oblique order section, you doubled on the left and cut the video just beforebthe ignored unit on your right flank enveloped your right flank. It seems like its just trading tit for tat
I don't see how this could be useful.
The same result would be possible by spreading units out a little bit, leaving one behind and then sending it to flank, while you preserve your front line. That's literally the exact same.
The only possible advantage that I see from this, would be that it would expose the enemy flanks for your missile fire... At the cost that you won't have a reserve line, so if the enemy break any point through brute force, your entire army will enrcicled and doomed. Also you'll lose the abillity to focus fire with missiles and as your first missile start shooting the rest won't. Meaning this defensive formation will get absolutely crushed by anything that has missile, so you would instead have to use it offensively, but by doing so, one wing would reach quicker the enemy (taking focused/saturation) while the others are still lagging behind, making it very easily for the enemy crush one unit after other.
The Wedge, if the enemy manages to break any point or the tip, your army will be encircled and blocked.
Also another problem with these formations is that you won't be allowed any flexibility, you'll have to be stuck on this battleline, otherwise will expose your flanks.
Beyond making things more complicated, requering more micro and babysitting, what's the point? Almost no positive and the negatives can mean army wipe instantly.
Leave alone artillery and magic, any role and the army is gone.Terrible.
As someone who only played historical Total War titles for a long time, historical tactics like these are what made me enjoy the game so much. I've recently gotten into Warhammer TW, and I love that historical tactics have value!
Absolutely and I love how it can add more variety to your games as well! Glad you're enjoying the vids bud!
I've been playing lately with ultra army size and the double unit size mod over that, try it sometime if your pc is able to handle it, i think it makes for epic game videos.
I’ve been wondering if there were more varied formations from history to try in Warhammer 3! I’m new to Total War and Battle line warfare. I thought it was all hammer and anvil all the way down, I can’t wait to try these tactics!
Bro let me know how it goes with them! I won't lie the typical line formation was what I used for the longest time before I started researching stuff for these videos. Cheers bud!
Instructions unclear, I'm fighting against skaven 1 to 8
Best tactic is to put all your melee units into one big blob lol, even more if you got magic.
try this in a multiplayer game
I don't really play multiplayer but I'll have to get some friends together and try it out. I don't think I have the patience to deal with randoms on it haha
So glad i found this channel!
Really love your content and the quality ❤
Bro thank you so much! I'm so glad you've ben enjoying my content! That really means a lot cheers bud!
just send lord and cast big aoe spell =)
The thing is they dont charge at me T_T
The video is nice, apart from one thing that's bothering me. In the first example battle that you used as a baseline, you didn't use a lord, but you did use it in all of the tactic battles and also used it's ability. That makes for bad experimental design, it could be that the lords presence was a major factor in the result of the battle, perhaps even a bigger factor than the arrangement of troops.
Yeah it was super difficult not having the Orc Warboss interfere so I had to throw my Lord in as well, the initial battle I didn't have time to redo if I remember correctly. If I did this again I'd have a buddy hop on so we can just have the units fighting, or find a mod that removes the Lords
Don't forget the L formation, mainly with anti large units. very useful for protecting artillery and other units from rush/mount attacks while still being able to flex
Ohhh that sounds cool I'm gonna have to look into that thanks bro!
Mighty duck reference ❤
Wait you mean I SHOULDNT charge all my dwarven miners at orcs and goblins?
I mean, you can. They just wont get there very quickly :p
I must be missing something big with this. Everytime I try to replicate the wedge the spearmen lose. Slowly at first, then when the waaagh hits they get torn to pieces. The prince in particular gets slapped around hard by the war boss.
So recording this was super weird, I had times where the Warboss would not fight, and times where he would join in and demolish stuff, times where he'd fight and not really do anything. In a perfect world I would have had someone else controlling the Orcs and just not had the Lords interfering. In this instance I think the Warboss held back for a little bit before charging in, which pretty much just gave the Elves enough time to punch through. The AI can be really odd sometimes
I do echelon and wedge a lot when playing historical TW.
In warhammer not so much. Compact formations is a no-no.
Nice which ones you play? I can't wait for a Medieval 3. And in Warhammer I've always kept my formations fairly compact, never really had too many issues, I try to prioritize enemy Wizards and Artillery
do you think that since these are infantry formations they could work in more infantry based total war games like rome 2?
Absolutely, in fact they'll probably work even better since everything is far more on the realistic side in the historical games.
I searched exactly for taktics like this thank you
awesme hope they help you out bro! thank you for watching!
well the wedge is debated if it was even used but still realy enjoyed the vid
Yeah I've been seeing that it may or may not have been used, but it still looks cool! Haha cheers buddy!
oblique order works great with ranged armies. both historically and ingame
Bello! Cheers bro! I'll have to try it out with a more balanced force, any tricks for using the ranged units?
@@MalleusGaming57
perhaps horse archers would work best. the oblique order was used by prussia in the 18th century when everyone was using slow line formations, so fast moving armored infantry could be tough to use it against
any thoughts on doing one of these videos on cavalry? hammer and anvil, feigned retreat is a personal fav
it pains me to see you charge spearmen, their charge bonus is so negligible
Not the test monkeys I wanted, but the ones I had
Can u show how to use these kinds of tactics vs an actual AI opponent.
I’ve got multiple videos showcasing these tactics, you can check them out on my channel
This guy embodies the "A staunch line of spears" meme
Lmfao yes!!! I collect High Elves in the Tabletop game so gotta represent!
Good idea
Spearmen, what is your profession...ahooh ahooh ahooh
On these Shields boys! AHOOH!
How would you use these formations with Lothern sea guard who have additional range components to them?
A lot of them would be more of the same since the added ranged component would be additional damage and pretty effective, but you could also do something like a Checkerboard Wedge, with two mirrored Echelons down the side and more units within, allowing them to have clear lines of fire but have your flanks be protected
@@MalleusGaming57and would these also work for dwarfs or would they be better staying put because dwarfs slow
Wait for the horn then reform men, wait for it! Stay strong!
Hold the line men! HOLD THE LINE!
@malleus gaming If a unit can not flank. Is it better to 2v1 a unit with melee from the same direction? Or should you keep 1 melee unit in reserve until the first one routs?
I’d say it’s better to add in the extra unit, that way there’s more mass of your units pushing back, plus it’ll be far more difficult for the enemy unit to isolate and surround individual models, letting your units last longer. Plus if your stacked units have spears or halberds they can get more attacks in
@@MalleusGaming57 Why does mass matter on normal melee vs melee? Also is it not wasting efficiency and getting your unit tired?
I play high elves and my favorite kind of battles are where I'm 1 stack against 4 stacks of enemies. No joke, the Tercio was a complete life changing formation. I've played for probably fifty hours and haven't lost a battle yet. genius.
Yes another brave Son of Ulthuan! Haha I've always loved the High Elves, I collect them in the tabletop game as well. And yeah bro those epic games where you're hopelessly outnumbered but come out on top! It's just the best feeling! Have you been using the Tercio with the Elves? How's it worked out for you?
Playing draws, they are fun I like it…high elves are so weak in comparison tho they need major overhaul
I love my High Elves, I can't wait for them to get an update
@@MalleusGaming57 I wish they would give dragons upgrade already. They are so weak. They attack like two units at once even when Emerick is super strong it takes him forever to do anything and I’m falling asleep by the time the battle finishes.
I loved the style of this video
Awesome thank you bro! Glad you enjoyed it!
It is very basic, but these formations are a good starting point.
Personally, I prefer to use my infantry using some variations of formations, some of which were covered in previous videos. Others haven't been covered yet, but I'd like to see if it can bebshared here with similar results these include:
-Byzantine infantry square (used by Empire, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Bretonnians) a variation of the original tercio video where 8 units of spearmen form a square. Unlike the tercio, the formation has archers/crossbowmen inside the square shooting supporting volleys. I also include some sword or halberd infantry if possible to help hold the formation.
-triple aces (used by high elves) there aren't many good hybrid infantry units, but the Lothern Sea Guard provide an excellent unit to recreate a fantasy version of the Roman legions following the Marian reforms. Simply put, I bring 2-4 ballistae, 1 lord, and 10-15 lothern sea guard. Arrange them in a checkerboard pattern 3 rows deep and watch incoming enemies get impaled by bows or spears. If the enemy does try flanking, the units on the flank and 3rd row can change facing, shifting the formation into an infantry square.
-Macedonian/Byzantine phalanx (used by anyone with any sort of missile troops) Generally speaking, this is the most common infantry formation players use, at least to some degree. Spearmen make a front line, flanked by infantry with either swords, halberds, or javelins. Behind them, archers/crossbowmen lend supporting volleys overhead, with any sort of artillery behind them. Protecting the wings of the army is your cavalry.
Bro this is amazing thank you! I've saved your comment, gonna look into covering these!
@Malleus Gaming absolutely! If you need any help with them or have questions, let me know.
You forgot the blob
Haha the Orcs tried it out, didn't quite work for them
Good stuff
Cheers bro thanks!
The wedge is crazy
I love it I've been using variants of it lately too and its so fun
I love this channel
That is so nice to hear thanks brother!
The explanation and demonstration of historical tactics is fantastic! Thank you for making these!
Thank you so much brother! I really appreciate that and thank you for watching!
Very useful.
Cheers bro glad you found it so!
Beautiful
Cheers bro thanks!
Thanks
Thank you for watching bud!
amazing
Thanks so much bro! Glad you liked it!
Wow!
Glad you enjoyed it bro!
These videos are always so entertaining and informative! Thanks for making them!
Glad you enjoy them bro! And thank you for watching :D
Looking forward to see a rendition of the famous Triplex Acies of ancient Rome.
It's your out-of-the-box checkerboard pattern, but some historians argue that this pattern was utilized more during deployment as they would be screened by a wall/line of skirmishers in the frontmost ranks.
As for when getting into combat, the front lines would spread out to create a continous wall of men, who would then get retreat into the second line's gap and repeating the cycle.
I actually tried this in Shogun 2, and wow the ease of maneuverability when everyone was deployed in a square is amazing.
Though, it can get relatively micro-intensive should you fight multiple fronts as you would need to constantly look for units which needs to be rotated.
Oh man that'd be so cool and you're right that'd be so micro intensive haha but its definitely something I want to cover at some point. Cheers brother!
i could watch a full on series of this! thanks for making man... Been using the false gap to good effect myself. Having a gap in the line a unit or two wide, with shock infantry / cav/ monsters waiting for the enemy to spread either side, then charging through and hitting them in the back.
Its such a shame there's no "move back while looking forwards" sorts of commands, that'd open up so many more line tactics. If you try and move a unit back at the moment the enemy gets savage buffs on that unit. Line manouvers are too cool, would love to see more :)
Thanks so much bro that's really nice to hear! : ) The False Gap is great I'll have to do a deep dive on it at some point. And dude! Yeah like a simple "Walk friggin backwards" command would be amazing, it'd be so much better for just kiting your opponents a bit more! Cheers bud!
Something I used to do when playing Medieval 2 and Rome: TW was place a couple of missile cavalry behind my main battle line. They could fire over the infantry and while advancing, gave me a lot of flexibility.
That's a really good idea! I can't believe I've never tried that! Haha thanks bro I'll have to see about incorporating that plan
I've been watching way too much TW TH-cam and these are some of the best videos. Lots of the content out there is really just someone reading in game information, speculating, or showing off some cheese. Whereas these show you something you can use in game to actually do better and have a better experience.
Thanks so much bro that really means a lot. I'm honestly surprised there aren't a lot more tactical videos but hey, glad I could fill in that gap. Cheers bud!
Those are by far my favourite TW:Warhammer guides! Just perfectly explained and I don't have to slow the videos down like with some others out there ;D
Awesome thanks bro that's so nice to hear! Glad you find these useful bud cheers!
i would love to see more infantry tactics, if you google it, most you get is modern things or just a rough overview, glad i stumbled upon your channel, realy cool stuff
Oh yeah I hear that, even with like the Echelon here I kept finding stuff about tanks, ships and planes haha cheers bro glad you've been enjoying the content! I'll definitely be working on more
I'm curious, what are you hoping for units wise with Thrones of Decay for Empire and Dawi?
Well, if I'm being really hopeful I'd definitely love for the Middenland roster, things like Wolf Priests, Knights of the White Wolf and Teutogen Guard (so badass!) I'd also love an Engineer hero, maybe even units with Hochland Long Rifles for some long range sniping, and foot Reiksguard for some epic heavy infantry. As for the Dwarfs, an Engineer Lord legendary or otherwise, the missing Slayer types (Dragon and Daemon Slayers), and Doomseekers, Malakai's Axe Throwing war machine thing would be sick too.
Great video. I liked how it was all the same units with just a change in tactics. Very well done.
Thank you so much bro! I was trying to be mindful of that and honestly this was a big experiment on my part just to see if doing things slightly differently could have a big effect. I appreciate it bud!
Try the wedge formation or the boars head formation while using the beastmen for experiments
I'm definitely planning on doing a vid on the Boar's Head, was thinking of using Norsca for it, but yeah Beastmen would also be good. I wanna do the Zulu Horns of the Bull formation with Beastmen, using some actual Bulls I think would be hilarious
I need to try these formations in my campaigns. could turn a defeat into a victory with the right setup
Oh definitely, even with this video when I saw how badly the Orcs won when it was just Line vs Line I was kinda expecting the worst with the formations but they really surprised me with how effective they were
This was a great video! Good explanation and showcase of formation tactics
Thanks so much bud! Glad you enjoyed it! Cheers bro!
Quality video. Hope your channel grows.
Thanks so much bro! Glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate it! Cheers bud
Now I wonder what kind of realistic tactics you can cook with when you add the fantastical elements into this. Magic, monsters, flying units and war machines. As always great work on the video.
Cheers bro thank you so much! And yeah once you throw in those more fantastical elements I'm sure there'll be a ton of craziness you can pull off. Even like if you can just get the enemy to blob up then throwing a vortex or a dragon's breath on them would be devastating and super satisfying haha
Monster units are also good at devastating front lines. Trolls vs swordsmen tend to lose for the swordsmen unless the trolls take a bunch of damage at once. You can completely turn it around on an enemy wedge by just smashing through their spear with monsters and flooding their flanks. Or summoning zombies behind them.
Definitely some very old tactics.
But nice to see your work this should help new players alot!
Can't go wrong the classics eh? Cheers bud!
@@MalleusGaming57 absolutly!