Yes of course women want different things but I’m glad they’re talking about this. I stay home with my kids and I feel pressure to go to work, not by my husband but by other females! I never see women who stay home looking down on women who work. I do see women who work looking down on those of us who don’t. As if we are holding back women’s progress in general by relying on a man take care of us and our families.
In my opinion, its just seems that these women who r mad at traditional roles feel vulnerable and powerless, so they over compensate with being dominant, or even a tyrannical leader. Its kinda sad, cuzmore than likely, a man may have been the soirce of this insecurities. Cuz they would do their thing and be happy, so whats the issue? An additional issue is we care too much about someone we dont know. Sad to say,but these women and men, who feel dishenchanted will more likely die this way.
I deeply respect stay at home mothers. Raising children to the best of your ability is literally the most important task in the world, because everything else humans go on to do stems in large part from how they were reared. It’s so upsetting hearing mothers and children be lambasted all the time in this day and age.
Same here. I live in NYC where these women cannot believe that I left my teaching career and put my Masters degree away to take care of my kids. They look down on me. They think I’m some kind of weak woman who can’t take care of herself. The men on the other hand are absolutely fascinated and engage with me in conversations. They always congratulate me on the decision to stay home. I have two good friends who also stay home and have had the same experiences. My marriage, my kids and my house were a mess when I worked. It’s was soooo stressful. Now there is peace and order in my home.
As a stay at home mom I've noticed that too. I've gotten a couple of snarky comments from working moms like, "must be nice to stay home all day some of us have to work". It seems to me a lot of moms are bitter about having to work. Don't get me wrong I 100% support women's choices on what they want to do with their life. I just wonder if the majority of women are actually happier with this arrangement. I could be wrong though.
David Ray I believe that Jordan Peterson fundamentally believes that anyone is cape able of being good. He preaches about virtue and the essence of being, which all revolves around the objective good. Jordan Peterson most definitely regards himself as a good person. Being good is the ultimate end of being human. So ur wrong :)
Same for our house. Much more peaceful and orderly in my house. We were a mess before I quit my job to stay home with my kids. We already live in NYC where it’s chaotic.
I’m so grateful my husband works so hard so that I can stay home to nurture and teach our three children (we homeschool) It would not be possible if I didn’t have a man who was willing to be a MAN and take care of his family.
@@stephanieallred5222 Too bad society doesn't grant any respect for the men who shoulder that burden. Instead we get to hear what oppressive assholes we are all day and night. I bet in another 100 years people will still be saying how awful your life is while your husband has the time of his life at work.
its the way we evolved, its natural for women to want to birth and raise kids hence their nurturing, caring nature and their proclivity to caring professions, such as nursing and primary school teaching, its natural and good for the kids as they benift from having that nurturing presence, fathers on the other hand gain purpose from working and providing, its an all around good thing that the left went and fucked up, we have no idea the extent of the damage done by them doing that.
My mom always told me that her dream job was to always be a stay at home mom. That when my brother and I were little and she stayed home with us they were the happiest of her life. Yes after we got older she did get her job back but for her personally she felt like being a stay at home made us bond quicker and easier. We always have awesome memories!!
Yes my mum did the same. She would pre-cook dinner, then go college/job while we were in school, and then come home to make dinner warm for us. She is super Mum 🥰.
My mom was so visibly depressed when me and my sister were smaller and she had to stay home to raise us. She is waaay happier now that she works. Though she always regrets that she couldn't go further in her studies because of us being born and have a better career
@@theannouncer3423 Society does put standards on people. Your employer fires you if you don't perform at work. Spouses divorce partners if they aren't fulfilling their commitments. Women staying home in the kitchen is unrealistic for most people in today's world even if they want to as the cost of living is more than one income can afford.
@@JB-kx9bx That is true it is unrealistic so therefore they must either work from home and hustle or get a job even after their pregnant unless the man makes a lot of money
I’ve been both an airplane mechanic and a stay at home mom and my happiness was directly correlated with the support of my partner at the time. Bottom line : If you have the support you need, you can be happy in either role.
I’m curious, do stay at home moms return to the workforce when children get older. If so, what are the obstacles? Is it stigma, given that you have a time gap in your CV?
"The majority of Americans say theyre doing well while saying others are not." I think that quote was over looked
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Oh, for sure. I'm only curious do "the others" represent their countrymen or people outside of their country, because americans do tend to think they are a pinnacle of western society and of world as a whole
Hey man. I’ve lived in the USA my whole life. I’ve seen the phenomenon you speak of and it is true. Though, there are plenty that note American accolades in the right way, as something to be proud of, not something to view others as lower than yourself. I imagine he is talking about fellow countrymen, people here are very critical while being completely in delusion of themselves. Many of us are guilty, I’m not sure what the culture is like elsewhere. Just my opinion based off of my experiences though
Maybe they should create "nice weekend syndrome" instead nice man syndrome. Make idea once a week going to a nature, camping or hiking with a family, play silly games, with some ball, or do tenis, husband will bond more with wife, wife will bond more with husband, thanks to innocent silly games. I mean games like "who will" make the tent first etc or who will prepare food, or something little just for fun bringing some mushroom, in such innocent moment wife and husband enjoy the moments of silence, and gentle loving touch, holding hands while walking in nature, or he helps making a camp fire, she will hand him the stuff from bag, without any silly analytical "thoughts" in head looking into each others eyes, without words, Actions speak louder than constantly anlyzing, In silence they actually create "bonding loving" atmposphere in their marriage. People dont practice this silent approach, just sitting looking in camp fire and enjoy family time, or riding a horse together, walking a dog silently, and enjoying the other person´s presence, they are taught by media, to just talk all the time, so they dont have time to fall in love over and over again. But usually you fall in love especially when your mouth are shut, when your mind isnt too rational in prefrontal cortex, and eyes open, not in times of constant analyzis. so ypou let your heart speak sometimes too. Its called brain heart coherence, in state of alpha, theta. Laughter is healling and laughter makes people bond together. Children may learn new hobbies,, in the nature.. It is better than being constantly attacked by news and silly topics on social media, or being brainwashed to eat some pills to feel happier. Hobbies and laughter is good stimulation for brain, also it increases immunity of the body, so people feel healthier, happier.
@@danilovegap it's weird, atleast to me. I figured the few stuff peterson gets right. Everyone knew, they just didnt care about it.its like watching a magician do the saw the box with someone in it trick and everyone goes crazy. Ur like, but I thought we all already knew how that was done?
Here's the thing. The views of people, especially women, who are commenting that they love to be stay at home mothers, do not prove that it was a better time when women had no rights and they were expected to stay home. Because even if some women like to play the submissive role in a family setting, it doesn't dismiss that a good significant portion of females want their own independence over financial and professional aspects of life. The important thing is to give everyone the freedom to choose. If you like working, a person who doesn't like to work shouldn't be demonised. And vice versa.
Stop peddling that old 'women had no rights' shtick. It's not true. Certainly not true of women from early 1900s to 50s when women had all the legal rights of men but understood they have their role and men have theirs. And ultimately, most women that work like men are miserable doing so. By all measures they are less happy and healthy, by and large.
@@Jay-og4yb What about you doing what you think is best, of course, as long as it conforms with norms of society and the downside to that is that you have let people do what they think is best, and again as long as they also conform with norms of balanced and just society. Wouldn't you think that's better, instead of doing what nature teached us about living in caves, raping and looting other tribes, etc. etc.
@@Jay-og4yb I dont think you understood JP at all. You are making a classic logical fallacy inscribing intention or value to nature. JP said that in free societies people tend to follow gender roles. He said nothing about enforcement. Gender is a spectrum and people should be encouraged to follow the roles that make them happy even if it doesn't differentiate from a status quo
I think the freedom and opportunity to choose are important. My friend enjoys being a stay at home mother. I enjoy working. It is good to have freedom. Traditional gender roles made more sense before contraception was invented. As women can now prevent pregnancy, the tradition is not always needed. It can also be dangerous for a woman (or man) to be financially dependent on someone else. However I do respect those who are traditional.
if i’m not wrong then all Jordan Peterson really has ever preached is that left to their own devices in terms of legislative gender equality, the biological differences between men and women become more apparent
@@Bobin10101 More or less, yes, but it's not that they become 'more apparent' - on the contrary, Peterson often mentions that the differences actually start to become more apparent in places where artificial 'equality' is enforced, they start to swing hard the other way; thus in the West you have radical man-hating feminists on one side, and woman-hating MGTOWs on the other - it's that they naturally incline towards so-called 'traditional' roles when they are free to do so. Currently women are taught to feel contempt for the role of dedicated mother and housewife, and inhibited from the freedom to live out this role on account of enforced 'equality' measures that marry them to the government and bury them in debt. It's worth noting that when women's suffrage got up and running in America, the movement against it garnered much more support from women than those for it. The vast majority of women at the time did not want the vote - why? Because back then it came with certain other responsibilities most women didn't want such as military service. Most women did not want the responsibilities of men.
Vlad Ivanov Yes. Because they were so engrained with the idea that it was “vulgar, out of place and unacceptable” to vote and hold the responsibilities of men. Once the movement got more mainstream women realized how much they liked to think and fend for themselves.
@@mindflayer0319 It was more to do with the fact that the vote came with other responsibilities at the time that women were loath to participate in - namely, the draft.
I worked with media 7 years ago as a 23 old enthusiastic chap and quit within a year and I decided to myself I would never watch the news as I felt it was a taking a negative hit on my outlook towards life and as a 31 year old I can say that was the best decision I made till date. Each time I recommend it to my depressed friends to discard news they would not get the underlying crux of the benefits this would have on their life. Thank you Mr Peterson for this reaffirming moment 🖤
My husband and I dont want children, but we do find that we are happier when I dont have a job. I do the cooking, the cleaning, manage finances, and run all the errands. Its less stress for me because I can stay home and less stress for him because when he gets home he has nothing else to worry about. Plus he loves that I have more time and energy to make better food and pack him different lunches each day.
That's how it should always be a man/woman relationship needs two people that compliment each other in their roles like opposite sides of a magnet it's how it's balanced and healthy for both
So you‘re like a slave to him, only that he gets to sleep with you, too. Obviously he earns a pretty good salary, but that is definitely not the standard anymore.
@happy doga If that’s how a relationship with a man and woman should be then why are my parents happy and just fine with both working, doing chores and taking care of me and my brother? Their pretty happy with sharing the work. And my mom likes that my dad helps her out with us and cleaning and my dads happy that he doesn’t have to worry about income because if he was the only one making money there would be some financial problems in our family. We do better with both parents working an equal amount of hours and my mom, dad and I sharing the house work. My brothers a little too young to do chores but when he’s old enough he’s going to help us clean. And usually with all three of us it only takes up our morning on a Saturday then we have the rest of the weekend to hang out. It’s also better for me and my brother because then our dad isn’t working all the time and he gets to spend time with us. And because he doesn’t have to work as many hours he can be there to help me with my math homework. Then our mom also gets some time away from us. And with them both working I get the house to myself and I can have my alone time. Also my mom is happy that she doesn’t stay at home all day and do chores. In my family everyone in the house doing the same amount of work is beneficial and conforming to the 1950’s gender roles would make my family miserable. Especially my mom. Then we wouldn’t even get to spend time with our dad. So I have to disagree with you. There is different was a man and woman in a relationship could be it just depends on the people. However from what I’ve seen and what I want out of a relationship I think men and women should be equal and be doing the same amount of work as the other and sharing the work. I don’t want to sit around the house all day and do all the chores and run errands and take care of the kids while my husband does nothing but work to support us. Then he comes home late and only has time to spend with me and the kids is the weekend. No thanks. I want to work to help support my family and I want everyone under my roof to participate in chores. Then with everyone doing the work things will get done faster then we would have time to spend together. With me working me and my husband could work less hours and have more time at home with each other and the kids on weekdays. Then you have the morning on Saturday to do chores then you have the rest of the weekend to go out and have fun. I just see things getting done faster with me and my husband sharing everything we need to do.
What we seem to have forgotten today is that strong women fought for the options of fellow women - not the compulsion. But today, society is structured around the compulsion for women to work, the compulsion of needing a double-income household, the compulsion to get married later and have children later, the compulsion to constantly be in the stressful rat race, etc. Compulsion of choice is hardly a choice at the end of the day. It showcases how western society flopped from one radical to another - the one radical was the 1960s where women's options were highly limited and the other radical is today where women are expected to be breadwinners, constantly vying for career advancement, and juggling all responsibilities inside and outside the home. It is truly ridiculous. My ultimate dream is to work from home. I do want to work because I actually enjoy it but I want to be a writer at home and remove myself from the rat race one of these days when we have the financial stability to do so. It feels natural to me.
Nette. I think many women have been conned. They reach a point in their life and feel they have achieved nothing. They may have had a successful career and acquired many material things. But it dose not satisfy them. It might all have come at a terrible cost. They may find they are to old to have children and have not had the time to develop close meaningful relationships.
As a woman, the opportunity to educate and work is the most important thing for me. I cannot imagine a world where women don’t have the opportunity to study, work and develop. I think I wouldn’t be able to function well without it. Also, I think every woman should be encouraged to study and gain financial independence. Being dependent is dangerous. Especially for women.
As a housewife, I sit right there at the table with my homeschooled kids, studying Latin or philosophy or botany or mythology or mycology or whatever I want in between helping them with their lessons. I am a total nerd, I would go nuts not being able to learn. I have a lot more time for that than most working ppl do, though - it fits right in with the homemaker schedule. Being dependent on a boss, the economy, the government - all those are dangerous, too. A loving husband is so much more motivated to go the extra mile to ensure your wellbeing than any of those.
@@suziepeaches321 it’s sickening men are just threatened by educated women, I will never allow anyone to manipulate me into thinking making money isn’t important in women’s life I much rather be masculine than to be poor.
@@naisin5607 an educated woman is the biggest threat to men. She won’t be obedient, she won’t agree with everything they say, she won’t believe in everything they say. She does things that empower HER and other women. Men hate it.
What we won't understand is that being a home maker doesn't make women inferior to men nor does going to work and being the provider of the family make men superior, both are equally important to establish a balanced family and society.
Being financially dependant is dangerous, that’s the problem. Majority of women who don’t leave abusive relationships don’t leave due to financial dependance. If they’re not inferior then don’t say men are the head of the households, they’re equally important so do not imply that one leads
How do you explain South Korean then? They have one of the highest suicide rates in the world while being completely homogenous. (I agree with you by the way, I'm just curious)
@@proxi1394 Partly - there are many reasons for high suicide rates in South Korea. One of the main reasons is the terrible welfare system, which doesn't support the elderly once they retire. In order to avoid being a burden on the family, the elderly will often kill themselves, especially in rural areas. Other reasons include the stigma around mental health, which discourages people from receiving treatment. The extreme work culture does contribute to suicide rates, particularly in students aged 10-19. Schooling becomes very competitive because of societal pressures, and the need/desire to get into a good university. It is a lot for a kid to handle.
If you want to be a housewife, go ahead and be a housewife, do whatever you want to do. Maybe by being a housewife and giving the kids the kind and loving presence they need, they'll go on to greatly benefit society and do amazing things
Or men will become more involved and society will improve. What you describe never worked well, it created violent men and submissive women with no rights.
@@bjorn1900 hahaha, nice try. You meant "JP you don't speak for us". What you said is what I said. You don't speak for anyone, you are not "us". No one is "us", but for JP women are all one.
@@bjorn1900 and that goes for men too, "even if it means raising proper children". The moment you assign that only to women you are not giving women the right to be whatever they want as well as to men. And is women, not girls, they are not raising children, they are children too.
If your passion is working in a specific field or you want to work/ have a career in general, then go ahead. If you want to be a stay at home mother, then also go ahead. You can’t enforce traditional or modern roles on anyone, because every individual has different interests, enforcing one of the roles would confine the other, which is why people should be making their own choices. Just do what pleases you and makes you a happy person.
@Drewskey you need to open a dictionary, no insult here. You dont need to try to convince others to become submissive just because you believe is their role solely based on their gender. You have been indoctrinated that way and want to brainwash others as well. Dont. Each it's own.
@Drewskey I am not responsible for your feelings. It was a simple explanation that try to convince people to limit themselves according to their gender because you believe they need to be confined to it is indoctrination and not respectful.
The Scandinavian data only shows people gravitate towards more traditional gender roles regarding career choices. Of course, traditional gender roles are defined by many other things, like women mostly staying home to care for their children instead of working, and that trend is not changing at all in Scandinavian, quite the contrary: more and more women are pursuing careers. So the Scandinavian data does not confirm traditional gender roles, only traditional gender career choices.
A lot of the comments are saying "whether you want to work or be a stay at home mom, do what you want and dont let others stop you " Its a good thing to say but the problem is that young girls have to make these family or career choices rather quickly and they don't know that what they want to do is in fact their true desire or is it just media influenced opinion that they have temporarily formed.
They have no choice. Because these girls have a window after a certain age that window closes and it becomes very different for them to find a partner.
@@giovannieista8106 ofcourse I will. Demise of my ambition is demise of me. I cannot live in a world which punishes me for wanting to keep dreams and family at par. But the question wasn't about me I was just asking in general that what should women like me and my 2-3 friends should do?
@@pratikshatiwari7011 You should not be angry at others for not allowing you to do what you want but you should be angry at yourself for being afraid of taking on the struggle that you will have to take on on your journey of truth. You should follow the road that you believe to be true, with enough conviction that you do believe that even if you die while following your true path, then it will be worth it. Why should anyone think about suicide if they can become a martyr instead. I believe that you and other girls like you should follow your belief to find meaning in your life. If you are following your dream to prove to others that your decision was correct and if it didn't work in the short rerm, then you might become nhilistic and suicidal because you statt to believe that it is meaningless. That is why it is very important to start with the mindset that what you are doing and the struggle you are facing will be meaningful even if it results in your demise. You here refers to all others like you
People need to be just as open to the idea that traditional gender roles will make them happy, just as much as they should be open to non-traditional roles making them happy. Saying you can't be a stay at home mom or thinking you have to break norms is just as damaging as being forced into it.
@Thomas Serrano you're so entirely wrong. There are 7 million unfilled positions in the workforce in the U.S. (at least there were before the pandemic), and there are still both skilled and unskilled fields where over 99% of the workers are men. And women entering the workforce did not come about because of feminism, it came about because of WW2, when most eligible men were drafted leaving nobody to work. Women were required to step in to work in factories to provide munitions for troops.
@@agees924 Demand doesnt double. Women and men were both buying things when women werent in the workforce. Women enter the workforce. Now double the product IS being made, but its not like women wrent buying, and now they are. Its just the supply now increases the demand. And therefore wages go down.
I wonder though how many people tend to think of themselves as “enforcers” vs. how many people think of themselves “advisers”. I would like to think that most people just want what’s best for each other. Although the actions of a few of late make that questionable. As far as I’m concerned if it is left at “friendly” advice (and I use the term friendly very loosely here) I’m okay with that. I can take it or leave it. When you go beyond that to the point of interfering in my life to whatever degree of power that you may have to do so, then we have a problem. (The only exception to this in my life would be the people that I have WILLINGLY made myself accountable to for the purposes of improving myself, even then there are limits. )
This is why I like Peterson. He had an opportunity to say yes people are happier with traditional gender roles that actually become more apparent in more egalitarian societies. Someone else who is trying to play the I'm right you're wrong game may have taken it. But instead he said "I don't know" because there's no hard data to support it, what the extraneous variables. Respect.
EXACTLY. We need more people who don't just jump the gun. We need more people to think before they speak, and take the side of truth instead of the side of a polarized debate.
Their is in a form, woman who are and were married, life expectancy was shortened and is shown be more depressed in the relationship . That's with traditional gender roles..
Thank you for the upload, but a more accurate title would be "Homogeneous Societies and the News Media." Basically all he said about gender roles is that it's not clear how much it contributes to the happiness of Scandinavians.
As someone who is highly driven and ambitious, i also know that i would not like to be married, come home after a long day of work, look after the kids, clean up. It sounds mentally draining. I honestly would rather just raise my kids at home
If you make enough money you could just pay somebody else to do it but that's probably not great to be so disconnected from your family, my parents both worked very hard and kept me in an afterschool program and they got divorced so that for sure doesnt work for everyone but they probably just didn't know any better
Still it’s a 53% divorce rate. Get a education before you get kids. « Happy» is most often the same as lucky. Get the ensurance of education, then make the decision
@@Ikaros23 Honestly, I think there are signs if a couple will get a divorce way before they get married or have children. How well do their personalities, goals, beliefs and values fit together? Do they resolve conflict quickly and respectfully? Do they always work as a team? Are they willing to give up their single (selfish) life for a life that consistently involves another human being and who they are and what they want out of life? Divorce is written all over the couple that thinks with all the crazy amount of differences they have that they will make it through. Think about why your best friends were always your best friends? They were/are your best friends because there was a solid standard that the each of you remained at. Sometimes you’d each drift off in one direction or another but there always remained a level where no matter what, the commonalities always seemed to outweigh the differences.
You're obviously not highly driven or ambitious. That is not compatible with the life you've just laid out for yourself. Ambition is a traditionally male trait. Nothing wrong with not being ambitious.
The left is not saying “women have to have careers and men have to be stay at home carers” - all we’re saying is that women and men should be able to choose. Most will stick to the traditional gender roles, great. If a minority of people are happier outside of their traditional roles then they should have the freedom to deviate without being vilified. The end
The problem is the left is vilifying women who chose to stay committed and submitted(not like a dog or something ) to their man..the women nowadays are encouraged to be « strong and independent » which really goes a little bit against their own nature..and the women who chose to be traditional are called weak and have their minds constantly corrupted by the ridiculous « i don’t need a man » trope.. it is possible to be independent and strong in a marriage while simultaneously submitting to your husband...the strength shouldn’t be to knock heads with your husband and the independence shouldn’t be to make your husband feel like he is useless..you can be independent but still let your man be a man.. that is exactly why a lot of these « strong » feminists radiate anger and unhappiness nowadays..because their nature wants them (like all of us) to seek a man to procreate..but they are literally fighting against their nature by convincing themselves they « don’t need a man »
Nguegang Fabrice And that’s EXACTLY what Rightist men tell independent women. That they should submit and stay at home like geez...let us think for ourselves.
Everyone have their own recipe for happiness: mine is having only 1 child,stay home,but also work from home for few hours a day(it depends on the day)and make money this way
YAP. i always said this to everyone. Each of us define happiness differently. 👏. Why do we have to judge everyone meanwhile in the end we're all just trying to be happy.
In modern societies, the only work valued is the work that generates a pay check. As much as I stand for empowerment of women, feminism put forward the message that what men do is valuable and hence women must do it too! And not, the roles women played should be respected more than it is. This is an interesting discussion.
Happiness is prety high in Scandinavian - they don't have obscene levels of inequality, public schools are amazing and there's health care for everyone.
that's what I find so interesting about those countries because they're relatively small and from what I know not overbearingly diverse to the point that such a system is perfect for the nation
ϟAHMEDϟ I would say that they are content with their living means and don’t try to reach for too much beyond what is necessary. They are usually well off financially and don’t have to deal with racial issues. This is a observation without stats
@zainab hamze Where does it say that they have the highest suicide rate? Please tell me. Last I checked those are usually poor countries, mostly South America, If I am not wrong.
All of this reminds me of that Utopia experiment where scientists created a terrenal paradise for their rats. They multiplied then all of them died after some time.
I have seen stay at home mothers getting a divorce while being financially dependent. So they go from a comfortable living to a life full of struggles. And that is a reason why I think women should not fully depend on a man.
Comrade Artyom Gaming Making divorce unlawful will likely only lead to increased domestic abuse and even if you make the punishment for domestic abuse more severe, it probably won't curb it. The solution you're proposing is frankly nonsensical, no offence.
"The silent majority" cannot be stressed enough. Most people aren't far right or far left, we are in the middle and have values from both parties. Example, I believe in gun rights and abortion.
I was stay at home mom and now I am employed. You want to hear the truth? I am much happier now. I have never been this tired,but I am content. We are much happier as a family, because I am no longer depressed and frustrated.
@@burton5131 lm black American i agree with you. The black man name botham sham jean a Caribbean immigrant was shot dead in his own apartment in Texas.I bet that dose not happen there are any other place in the world.
I deleted all social media apps on my phone (except for TH-cam and WhatsApp due to reasons that has to do with my work) and stopped watching the news months ago. Result : an absolute peace of mind and I swear I didn’t miss anything except for the depression and the anxiety that I used to get from them.
As a Chinese if you go into a Chinese owned building you will see two lion statues guarding the main entrance. If you notice the two lions are different. One holds a ball or earth in its paw symbolising male), while one holds a cub in its paws (female). Chinese believe in gender roles and believe me that Chinese women are not subservient. They are very strong headed equal to the man and I am raising my daughter that way.
Dr Peterson talking about "CNN on steroids" and the news "being everywhere 24/7" reminded me of 1984, Brave New World and also UBIK, a very scary vision.
Sure it might be great to have traditional gender roles in your home. Do it willingly, not because you feel you have to serve the man. The man must also be grateful your waiting on him hand and foot, if he is not then it’s a servant and master relationship.
Lol what? Who said traditional gender roles are about 'serving the man'? A proper marriage is about serving each other, equally, and having deep respect for each other that is earned. And yes, you absolutely should be grateful for each oterh. Waiting for him on hand and foot? What? Of course traditional gender roles can be abused, but that's not the ideal, but the abusing of the concept. Don't abuse it, sure. But maybe marriage is not about high independence, for either parties.. It's about love and solidarity for each other and a deeply meaningful union.
@@obbavyakti5805 You must be thinking about the American traditional gender roles while I’m over here growing up with Hispanic and Latino traditional gender roles
@@sophiaageitos2763 Yes, certainly Western ones although I myself am from Central Europe. Sorry for jumping on you like that. I am sorry that you have to experience that. I think that the category of women and of men are equally valueable, and that while they have a lot of similarities, they also both have something incredibly valueable to offfer. That's the ideal I believe in. Certainly not total submission of one or the other of them. A real man doesn't expect obedience from his wife, nor the other way around. A certain form of submission, potentially, as there are different cultures and traditions, but respect and love, and interest in the needs and wants of the other is fundamental.
Before I watch I’ve thought about this myself some already knowing about the Scandinavian countries and hearing Jordan Petersen talk about this. I think it may be in part because life is easier when you fit in and know what you want to do. Less chaos basically for Jordan Petersen fans
@@andrewcruz1931 no, the question was asked and discussed. The title of the video is the content of the video. They discussed the hypothetical question of the title of the video and some of the foundation of the nature of further knowledge and data that would be required to research further into the answer that he doesn't yet know
I think leaving maximum choice to the individual is the way to go. If these roles are indeed natural we'll get there better than through some very oppressive conservative laws
@Drewskey people can decide for themselves if they make sense for them and not impose them on others Although i think the left is too ideological to care for their well being
The last part is so true,its like news is everywhere and I noticed that most news regarding the society is sort of in the negative spectrum,it potrays a dire image,doesn't matter if it is left or right inclined. And thats the news which gets the most attention,more than sports or technological or scientific news. As he said,for peace of mind I have left almost all social media platforms and it feels peaceful.
@@kooby122 It is not attacked at all. No major media company attacks working women. They all push it. There is not a single prominent cultural institution in america that attacks working women. At all. Its just not true that its attacked.
The issue is that not all women want to be happy home makers and have kids ....this is what these types forget ...women have individual wants and needs
Well then men need to go to college or trade school as many women have done to get your money count up. Women fought hard not to be chained to the kitchen ....
I want a career in mental health guess what i did WENT FOR WHAT I WANTED a hole doctorate later here I am. So what was that about women not knowing what they want. You must be talking bout ya mammy you incel turd
I want my wife to be well educated both socially and academically, however I would much prefer to have a more traditional family as far as duties and responsibilities go. I just don’t want my wife to NEED me to get by in life. If anything were to happen to me, I’d want to know that she’s in a position to take care of herself and the children. Plus I’d much rather talk to a girl that can actually hold a real conversation with me
@@alinan4320 He does, you are just dense. He wants an intelligent and educated woman, who would be a stay-at-home mother. But he wants his partner to be a person who is equal to him (bare minimum for both men and women), and who wouldn't be devastated if they couldn't rely on him anymore.
@@obbavyakti5805 no I think he believes a traditional family is one where both parents work. He likely thinks this because his parents likely work and doesn’t know any better. Nothing wrong with that though
@@obbavyakti5805 she won't be able to work as a stay at home mother. if something were to happen to him, he expects her to be financially independent but how likely would that be if she basically kills her career to stay at home lmao what a logical fallacy 😂
"I’d want to know that she’s in a position to take care of herself and the children" Then she needs to work to maintain experience and a good resume you absolute idiot.
IMO people feel good when they know the plan/what to expect. In traditional families perhaps they have more formal roles so that maybe part of it. But then again, it is probably also healthy to have some flexibility in your family roles. He made excellent points about Nordic countries: smaller population and wealth etc.
What do you do if you don’t like your traditional gender role, but also see the objective value of it? I struggle a lot with being a stay at home mom. The isolation and relentlessness of it are breaking me down, and I feel like I’ve lost myself in this vortex of motherhood. I understand that, traditionally, women also had support systems, which I do not. I often wonder if I’d feel differently if I wasn’t so profoundly alone. (It also makes a big difference that I’ve had three kids within three years- young children are wondering but demanding.) I also subscribe to attachment theory, so I stay home with my kids and breastfeed, co-sleep, baby wear, etc. I want to provide the attachment, but I do badly yearn for adult connection and a place in society. I feel trapped, but I can’t talk about this with leftists because I also think they’re wrong. My children need me, so I’m there for them. There just has to be some middle ground that I’m simply missing. (I’ve tried talking to other women about this and they tell me to go back to work, and when I try talking to people on the right they just tell me to suck it up.)
@@asdf1991asdf Thank you for saying this. I've really been struggling, as I live in a liberal area and have faced a lot of stigma for staying home and homeschooling. Not having any connections with women has only compounded the burn out and isolation, and. I hope that I can find or create a community or "village" of support and understanding. And thank you for commending the efforts in staying home- I strongly subscribe to attachment theory so, as many mistakes as I make, I at least know that my kids have and will never need to worry about being abandoned or unwanted.
I'm having my 1st and only hopefully.. I wanted to get pregnant for the wrong reason - merely because I wanted the experience but the weight of responsibility I feel on my shoulders don't seem worth it .. I want to be a stay at home mother for now because I want to experiment and learn .. I feel like having a job and a demanding infant while I'm recovering would impede the learning process .. no one quite understands my views either I don't like kids especially little boys and I also find them gross but i would be severely heartbroken to lose this child and I'm excited about all the things I want to share and I'm terrified of giving birth .. I really hope I can live with the only thing I need to worry about is just the stretch Mark's and minimal to no tearing. I lack interest in jobs and want to focus more on being available for my husband and son .. at the same time I just don't like the idea of giving up my personal freedom to raise a child .. I got pregnant by accident after 6 years of thinking I couldn't.. I didn't exactly try to not be pregnant because I was always curious. I am of 2 minds will I be happy with a child or will I regret this .. I haven't quite worked those feelings out
@@focusedstudying8993 late to the party, but you sound like someone who has never had kids. This lady was TOO BUSY for a hobby, that's why she felt isolated in that season of her life. She *was* being useful and had plenty challenges, trust me. All she lacked was support.
Sorry to say it like this, but i've seen some of those women.... they aren't the best people to deal with it. Maybe you are different, sure. But it's just so fucking weird when it happens.
Kind of hypocritical of you though don’t you think? You would look down on a man who stays at home but also expect him to treat you with respect and pay for everything you ever need.
@@samuelwhittenburg8742 I dont think its hipocritical, is just how i would want my marital life to be. I dont know if i want to be a stay at home mom, but, in abstract, i am not attracted to the idea of a man staying at home, as that is what i kind of want to do and i think is more feminine. No disrespect to coupes who do it the other way. just personal preference.
There’s a social safety net and a basic standard of living, good education and free healthcare, plenty of vacations, therefore people are happy. Not rocket science.
From what I've seen (which is unbelievable), people do seem happy in traditional gender roles, they just don't like to be told that they can't do otherwise and may even go out of their way to prove the nay sayers wrong.
I think women back then used to be depressed because they have no choice over their future nowadays we can go to school and college and work besides being wives and care about our families 👍🏻all my teachers and professors at university are married and mothers and some of them are even grandmothers
There is no problem with women wanting to work in fields that complement their feminine and nurturing nature (i.e. nurse, teacher, maybe a shrink, etc) as long as they can still make time for fulfilling their roles as wife and mother. The problem starts when women want DIRECT competition with men (usually for employment in high-salary jobs) and EXPECT the same success while bringing less suitable merits, or plainly being less competent, for that specific job than their opposite-sex competition. The typical high-paying corporate positions largely demand for level-headedness, wisdom, decision-making, leadership, and rationality, all of which men typically excel at. These feminists are fighting against meritocracy, only when it does not benefit them. And it's also fishy how it's always the six-figure+ salary job that are argued about amongst these feminazis.
Really? If you lok at the data women are MORE depressed today than in the past. Women don't want to work, go to college and become an indepent cat lady.
@@Nimbereth The unhappiness of women is due to the awareness of today's chauvinism and NOT because they can do what they want. Also, social media makes both genders depressed. Think before you write
1:10 ""More homogenous societies tend to be more peaceful and happier."" I know! I, a Scandinavian, keep trying to tell people this; that we should (nearly) close our borders, and rather spend more money on building infrastructure in third world countries. Hardly anyone listens. I assure you, Scandinavia will not stay homogenous for long.
@@timaa.4379 To what extent does the West steal 3rd world resources, can you give some examples? I think China is the great culprit when it comes to modern resource "theft"? Also, what terrorism are you referring to? To the extent that The West is draining the 3rd world, I definitely agree we should stop. I suspect you are referring to private enterprises, though, and I don't know how we could stop that without resorting to communism, which itself would have a massive cost in human suffering. The West gives huge amounts of aid to the 3rd world. It has also exported cultural and industrial technology which has pulled the rest of the world centuries to millennia ahead. The problem is that progress has been "invested" in masse growth in population rather than welfare. Therefore, I don't think the solution for the 3rd world is as simple as "more resources". That hasn't worked in the past, because the 3rd world is in a demographic stage where economical surplus increases population size, not welfare. Right now, further population growth would make global warming a true nightmare.
I think everyone is different and it isn’t ok to polarize what a relationship is supposed to be. If you and your partner are happy that should be enough
@Drewskey I said nothing about my political views, all I said is two people are allowed to be happy together regardless of their sex. You are merely projecting your insecurities about the political and religious climate we live in.
@Drewskey "it's against god's marriage". Fake fact. I assume that religious people like you believe that God created humans. Being gay is biologically very natural and everything natural in humans like the organs, natural instincts which you believe are God made. Nobody "converts" into gay because it's a trend or its cool or something. It's just who you are as a person. Some people even say I'm against homosexuality and it's their "opinion". It's like saying a person shouldn't be smart or be naturally very tall because your opinion is against it. Homosexuality has also been observed in other animals, not only humans. Relationship isn't only about sex. So if two asexual men engage in a relationship but doesn't have sex, is this type homosexual relationship okay?
I think that: if mothers were planning to raise their children without having to do a job, then it will be a reasonable choice to select their husband based on their wealth .which is not what men are looking for in women sadly...
Turns out that university schooled women look for a partner smarter and better educated, better Job. Marriage is low amongst them. They do not find a lot satisfying men that can take care of them better than they themselve. Women in general look for men more capable then themselve. The culture is now that a lot of educated women fail to find anyone, have no children. You might argue that if culture valued family happiness more, women would be satisfied with less wealthy men. I pity lonely educated women, who are pushed to work first discovering they are too late for a family,husband and children.
@@nielsqbc4 well this means that equal roles or different gender roles both have their pros and cons both for men and women, then one should carefully analyse his/her situation before deciding about how to do with their lives, but most of these decisions are based on the cultural environment and parents put a huge amount of pressure.
@@nielsqbc4 They dont care, lots of women just dont want to take care of their ,,man" and cooking and cleaning, just have their life or normall boyfriend who is smart enough and do this things too. Probably if men helped more at home, women would not postpone children until later. Dont be sad for them, they are ok
"Mothers without a Paying job" you mean. If you don't outsource parenting to complete strangers (aka daycare, nanny and do forth), parenting is a full time job. Even when children are at school, you are preparing for the time they will be back. Societies have stopped putting children at the forefront. Nurturing children used to be the most important thing. Men went out to work for their children, women stayed home to ensure health and hygiene of the children. Extended families used to help out raising children. Then the joint family system collapsed. Now the nuclear family is collapsing. People now do whatever the heck they want to do in the name of personal freedom and a myriad of -ism ideologies. Children suffer, society collapses.
Not everyone is equally ambitious. Who want more, should be allowed to work more. Those who don’t want that much, should be allowed to do less and not be shamed.
Some people probably are happier with traditional gender roles. Some people would be miserable. Gender Roles are only bad if they're forced. If a Woman wants to be Florence Henderson. Good for her. If a Woman wants to have a career and focus on her. Good for her as well
I'm from Norway and can confirm this. Even though everybody at my college knows well about the woke left movement in USA, there's still the healthy differentiation between the two genders, seen in the never ending playful "fight" between the boys and girls.
I'm a woman haven't worked in almost 2 years now my man takes care of me. I prefer this life over working and dealing with horrible colleagues and bosses
He's Canadian. It would be interesting if he went for Prime Minister, but he's a social psychologist, not a politician. He has money, but only about 1.5 million. not nearly enough to run a campaign.
He sells books, has a patreon earning around 80k a month, speaks for interviews and lectures, also helps companies in developing tests for future workers (correct if there is more) while he has previously been a professor at multiple university’s including Harvard, which makes quite a bit of money. He definitely has a lot more than 1.5 million.
@@obedientdrone1179 It's easy for a punk 19yo that's picked up a few phrases, to piss off a guy that's possibly a hundred miles away. But then, I might be living right next to you. I'd be careful if I were an "obedient drone".
I’m was more satisfied staying home with my children and raising them. When you work a full time job and have children something has to give at work or at home. I’ve also had children and a job. My kids always came first even at work if the school called I went to get them
Both men and women should get to choose. Plenty of guys would make great stay at home dads but probably don’t feel they can do that as other men would look down on them.
Maybe the genders roles in Scandinavia make them happier and maybe not, but what the gender roles there indicates is that human naturally tend to choose that traditional roles if they have the choice, and by choice I mean with less media and social pressure like in the west which encourage women to leave their traditional role and try to have same role as men.
A nice name I don’t know what world you live in, currently even in the Middle East where I live the married woman are encouraged by media and society to work and leave the traditional role, a lot of them may work and pay most of her salary to a nanny that watch over the house and kids just so the society doesn’t look to her as a weak dependent women While the traditional role is not predefined as much as it is naturally chosen, different times, different places and still the gender roles is similar
Happiness is higher in Scandinavia because of genetics. There are genes found more commonly in Scandinavians that are linked to higher rates of reported happiness.
One thing I've noticed about women in modern relationships where they have a job and similar daily routine to their partners is that they're still doing the majority of the house work, child rearing, cooking and so on because those expectations still exist in society. It leads to the woman feeling over stressed and under appreciated and deeply unhappy. Traditional gender roles in relationships have the advantage of defining the roles and responsibilities of each partner quite neatly and if both partners are content with those and strive to live up to them those kinds of relationships can work well. More modern relationship types don't have that framework so clear and constant communication about how to divide labour and coming to a consensus is vital. A lot of people simply aren't good enough communicators for that but when it's there those kinds of relationships can work out great as well. I think that's the danger of what I see a lot on the internet these days with various influencers dividing men and women into homogenous categories and encouraging people to act in their relationship based on "what women want" or "what men want" Instead of simply asking the partner what they want out of the relationship and acting based on that. Whether a relationship no matter the type is happy or miserable is entirely dependent on the individuals within it being compatible and on the same page.
It's his job as a clinical psychologist to make sure he understands what he's hearing. It's called "reframing" - listen to what's being said/asked, repeating it using different words for confirmation or correction from the person, then giving them the answer. ✌
As a woman, I prefer traditional gender roles as long as my husband is respectful towards me. But it’s very hard to find. So I have to work, can’t depend on no man nowadays.
Their out there but very rare , I have a good husband but he does come with some problems and frustrations.. I know I do as well .. despite trying his luck is awful and hes gone through a few cars .. had to stand my ground on this last one and say he isnt driving it, hes also gets laid off and gets periods of time where he just doesn't work.. even started school when our truck broke down .. every thing hes tried and wants to do effects me and I've had to save ,scrape and walk to work and groceries .. if it wasnt for me we wouldn't be able to stay at are apartment , draw back is I don't make much and we can't put anything back - I couldn't pursue a higher paying job .. kinda stuck at this one so we can have our baby .
In Sweden, women have a strong voice and we as a society are working towards a more gender neutral way of thinking. There is of course some fringe ideas and issues on both sides. However in general i think Sweden is a wonderful place to live.
I don't see why would anyone care about these "happiness statistics". Only you know what will make you happy, go for it. Is your ambition to devote all of your time to your kids? Be a stay-at-home mom! Is your ambition to advance in the business world? Be a businesswoman! Do your ambitions shift from time to time? Shift from time to time! Who cares if you'll be "looked down upon" by someone? You don't owe them anything. You don't owe any of it to the world, just do what works for you and your family.
Peterson is incapable of being boring, i could talk with him for the entire day and feel like it wasnt enough. I dont even have to agree with him on everything, and yet i would much rather have a talk with someone that i love to disagree with than with someone i regrettably agree with.
Yes of course women want different things but I’m glad they’re talking about this. I stay home with my kids and I feel pressure to go to work, not by my husband but by other females! I never see women who stay home looking down on women who work. I do see women who work looking down on those of us who don’t. As if we are holding back women’s progress in general by relying on a man take care of us and our families.
In my opinion, its just seems that these women who r mad at traditional roles feel vulnerable and powerless, so they over compensate with being dominant, or even a tyrannical leader. Its kinda sad, cuzmore than likely, a man may have been the soirce of this insecurities. Cuz they would do their thing and be happy, so whats the issue? An additional issue is we care too much about someone we dont know. Sad to say,but these women and men, who feel dishenchanted will more likely die this way.
I deeply respect stay at home mothers. Raising children to the best of your ability is literally the most important task in the world, because everything else humans go on to do stems in large part from how they were reared. It’s so upsetting hearing mothers and children be lambasted all the time in this day and age.
@Rock On wow what a bitch, she can't tell you to not visit your mom because she had her own plans, you should be free to do what ever you want
Same here. I live in NYC where these women cannot believe that I left my teaching career and put my Masters degree away to take care of my kids. They look down on me. They think I’m some kind of weak woman who can’t take care of herself. The men on the other hand are absolutely fascinated and engage with me in conversations. They always congratulate me on the decision to stay home. I have two good friends who also stay home and have had the same experiences. My marriage, my kids and my house were a mess when I worked. It’s was soooo stressful. Now there is peace and order in my home.
As a stay at home mom I've noticed that too. I've gotten a couple of snarky comments from working moms like, "must be nice to stay home all day some of us have to work". It seems to me a lot of moms are bitter about having to work. Don't get me wrong I 100% support women's choices on what they want to do with their life. I just wonder if the majority of women are actually happier with this arrangement. I could be wrong though.
Jordan asks himself a question then says "Now that's a good question"
so?
Ege Erdem
Jordan Peterson is a good person with lots of knowledge.
@@daily6633 I think if you knew Jordan Peterson you would know that he definitely does not consider himself "a good person".
David Ray
I believe that Jordan Peterson fundamentally believes that anyone is cape able of being good. He preaches about virtue and the essence of being, which all revolves around the objective good. Jordan Peterson most definitely regards himself as a good person. Being good is the ultimate end of being human.
So ur wrong :)
It's called thinking.
My wife loves staying at home and raising our daughter and I love going to work, taking care of my family financially.
Same for our house. Much more peaceful and orderly in my house. We were a mess before I quit my job to stay home with my kids. We already live in NYC where it’s chaotic.
I’m so grateful my husband works so hard so that I can stay home to nurture and teach our three children (we homeschool) It would not be possible if I didn’t have a man who was willing to be a MAN and take care of his family.
@@stephanieallred5222 Too bad society doesn't grant any respect for the men who shoulder that burden. Instead we get to hear what oppressive assholes we are all day and night. I bet in another 100 years people will still be saying how awful your life is while your husband has the time of his life at work.
Thermic Light well in our circles men are respected for being men. Get new friends :)
its the way we evolved, its natural for women to want to birth and raise kids hence their nurturing, caring nature and their proclivity to caring professions, such as nursing and primary school teaching, its natural and good for the kids as they benift from having that nurturing presence, fathers on the other hand gain purpose from working and providing, its an all around good thing that the left went and fucked up, we have no idea the extent of the damage done by them doing that.
My mom always told me that her dream job was to always be a stay at home mom. That when my brother and I were little and she stayed home with us they were the happiest of her life. Yes after we got older she did get her job back but for her personally she felt like being a stay at home made us bond quicker and easier. We always have awesome memories!!
I am honestly very happy that she was able to do this and that it had such a great impact on you :) 💚
Same with my Mum dude!
Wow it's almost like life was built like that for a purpose wow
Yes my mum did the same. She would pre-cook dinner, then go college/job while we were in school, and then come home to make dinner warm for us. She is super Mum 🥰.
My mom was so visibly depressed when me and my sister were smaller and she had to stay home to raise us. She is waaay happier now that she works.
Though she always regrets that she couldn't go further in her studies because of us being born and have a better career
I think people are happier when they can pick the lives they want.
nah
@@theannouncer3423 lol ok...go to North Korea if you want someone telling you how to live your life.
@@JB-kx9bx Can't get in. I'm not saying their shouldn't be freedom however, people must be held to a certain standard
@@theannouncer3423 Society does put standards on people. Your employer fires you if you don't perform at work. Spouses divorce partners if they aren't fulfilling their commitments. Women staying home in the kitchen is unrealistic for most people in today's world even if they want to as the cost of living is more than one income can afford.
@@JB-kx9bx That is true it is unrealistic so therefore they must either work from home and hustle or get a job even after their pregnant unless the man makes a lot of money
Being a housewife and a mother IS NOT BAD. Being a doctor or an scientist ISN'T BAD TOO.
Do whatever you want, gurl. Whatever makes you happy.
I’ve been both an airplane mechanic and a stay at home mom and my happiness was directly correlated with the support of my partner at the time. Bottom line : If you have the support you need, you can be happy in either role.
@@OGSarah I love that. That’s what we should be telling young women
I’m curious, do stay at home moms return to the workforce when children get older. If so, what are the obstacles? Is it stigma, given that you have a time gap in your CV?
@The Year of Dragon someones mad
Women shouldn’t be doctors
"The majority of Americans say theyre doing well while saying others are not." I think that quote was over looked
Oh, for sure. I'm only curious do "the others" represent their countrymen or people outside of their country, because americans do tend to think they are a pinnacle of western society and of world as a whole
Hey man. I’ve lived in the USA my whole life. I’ve seen the phenomenon you speak of and it is true. Though, there are plenty that note American accolades in the right way, as something to be proud of, not something to view others as lower than yourself. I imagine he is talking about fellow countrymen, people here are very critical while being completely in delusion of themselves. Many of us are guilty, I’m not sure what the culture is like elsewhere. Just my opinion based off of my experiences though
Very much overlooked. 🎯
Maybe they should create "nice weekend syndrome" instead nice man syndrome.
Make idea once a week going to a nature, camping or hiking with a family, play silly games, with some ball, or do tenis,
husband will bond more with wife, wife will bond more with husband, thanks to innocent silly games.
I mean games like "who will" make the tent first etc
or who will prepare food, or something little just for fun
bringing some mushroom,
in such innocent moment wife and husband enjoy the moments of silence, and gentle loving touch, holding hands while walking in nature,
or he helps making a camp fire, she will hand him the stuff from bag, without any silly analytical "thoughts" in head
looking into each others eyes, without words,
Actions speak louder than constantly anlyzing,
In silence they actually create "bonding loving" atmposphere in their marriage.
People dont practice this silent approach,
just sitting looking in camp fire and enjoy family time, or riding a horse together, walking a dog silently, and enjoying the other person´s presence,
they are taught by media, to just talk all the time,
so they dont have time to fall in love over and over again.
But usually you fall in love especially when your mouth are shut, when your mind isnt too rational in prefrontal cortex,
and eyes open, not in times of constant analyzis.
so ypou let your heart speak sometimes too. Its called brain heart coherence, in state of alpha, theta.
Laughter is healling and laughter makes people bond together.
Children may learn new hobbies,, in the nature.. It is better than being constantly attacked by news and silly topics on social media,
or being brainwashed to eat some pills to feel happier.
Hobbies and laughter is good stimulation for brain, also it increases immunity of the body, so people feel healthier, happier.
Jordan Peterson low-key turning into the most interesting man in the world lol
Lol you guys are like kids who picked up their first book
@@drzaious8136 How come?
Danilo Vega whose book and/or vids do you recommend?
It's the beard huh?
@@danilovegap it's weird, atleast to me. I figured the few stuff peterson gets right. Everyone knew, they just didnt care about it.its like watching a magician do the saw the box with someone in it trick and everyone goes crazy. Ur like, but I thought we all already knew how that was done?
Here's the thing. The views of people, especially women, who are commenting that they love to be stay at home mothers, do not prove that it was a better time when women had no rights and they were expected to stay home. Because even if some women like to play the submissive role in a family setting, it doesn't dismiss that a good significant portion of females want their own independence over financial and professional aspects of life. The important thing is to give everyone the freedom to choose. If you like working, a person who doesn't like to work shouldn't be demonised. And vice versa.
100% correct
Exactly it’s all about having the freedom to choose!!
Stop peddling that old 'women had no rights' shtick. It's not true.
Certainly not true of women from early 1900s to 50s when women had all the legal rights of men but understood they have their role and men have theirs.
And ultimately, most women that work like men are miserable doing so. By all measures they are less happy and healthy, by and large.
how 'submissive', to raise human beings and run an entire household. They must be weak-willed and 'subservient'.
Exactly
Maybe we could just let people do whatever they want instead of trying to institute either traditional or modern lifestyles
Because that's not what nature intended. People can't just do anything and everything they want whenever they want.
Humans form societies for a reason
@@Jay-og4yb What about you doing what you think is best, of course, as long as it conforms with norms of society and the downside to that is that you have let people do what they think is best, and again as long as they also conform with norms of balanced and just society. Wouldn't you think that's better, instead of doing what nature teached us about living in caves, raping and looting other tribes, etc. etc.
@@Jay-og4yb we do lots of things nature never intended
@@Jay-og4yb I dont think you understood JP at all. You are making a classic logical fallacy inscribing intention or value to nature. JP said that in free societies people tend to follow gender roles. He said nothing about enforcement. Gender is a spectrum and people should be encouraged to follow the roles that make them happy even if it doesn't differentiate from a status quo
@@Jay-og4yb Societies are meant for communities to thrive and to protect individuals' positive and negative liberties
JP is on the Rogan podcast more often than Rogan
Englandsbestlover thank god haha
More of him please!!!
Englandsbestlover I died xD
Nothing against Joe, I love his work. But that would be a good thing.
You're saying that like it's a bad thing
As a woman I hate being at home. I think its more of a person to person issue.
Agreed
It would be different if you have kids, do you?
@@bulletkingaming2808 are you a woman?
@@wisespidey, clearly not, just by my name and identity itself. I am not fooling anyone
@@bulletkingaming2808 😂😂. I think it's a stereotype that it's only a woman who cares for her child
I think the freedom and opportunity to choose are important.
My friend enjoys being a stay at home mother. I enjoy working. It is good to have freedom.
Traditional gender roles made more sense before contraception was invented. As women can now prevent pregnancy, the tradition is not always needed. It can also be dangerous for a woman (or man) to be financially dependent on someone else.
However I do respect those who are traditional.
if i’m not wrong then all Jordan Peterson really has ever preached is that left to their own devices in terms of legislative gender equality, the biological differences between men and women become more apparent
@@Bobin10101 More or less, yes, but it's not that they become 'more apparent' - on the contrary, Peterson often mentions that the differences actually start to become more apparent in places where artificial 'equality' is enforced, they start to swing hard the other way; thus in the West you have radical man-hating feminists on one side, and woman-hating MGTOWs on the other - it's that they naturally incline towards so-called 'traditional' roles when they are free to do so.
Currently women are taught to feel contempt for the role of dedicated mother and housewife, and inhibited from the freedom to live out this role on account of enforced 'equality' measures that marry them to the government and bury them in debt.
It's worth noting that when women's suffrage got up and running in America, the movement against it garnered much more support from women than those for it. The vast majority of women at the time did not want the vote - why? Because back then it came with certain other responsibilities most women didn't want such as military service.
Most women did not want the responsibilities of men.
@@vladivanov5500 www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/593710/ this article I feel you should consider
Vlad Ivanov Yes. Because they were so engrained with the idea that it was “vulgar, out of place and unacceptable” to vote and hold the responsibilities of men. Once the movement got more mainstream women realized how much they liked to think and fend for themselves.
@@mindflayer0319 It was more to do with the fact that the vote came with other responsibilities at the time that women were loath to participate in - namely, the draft.
I worked with media 7 years ago as a 23 old enthusiastic chap and quit within a year and I decided to myself I would never watch the news as I felt it was a taking a negative hit on my outlook towards life and as a 31 year old I can say that was the best decision I made till date. Each time I recommend it to my depressed friends to discard news they would not get the underlying crux of the benefits this would have on their life. Thank you Mr Peterson for this reaffirming moment 🖤
We've got all 5% of the extreme left here in California
Elspeth Silverstar and on college campuses
And AOC doesn't even live there
Geoffrey Wilson and she’s so crazy she’s a whole percentage point on her own 🤣
great thread and fantastic read
🙄🙄
My husband and I dont want children, but we do find that we are happier when I dont have a job. I do the cooking, the cleaning, manage finances, and run all the errands. Its less stress for me because I can stay home and less stress for him because when he gets home he has nothing else to worry about. Plus he loves that I have more time and energy to make better food and pack him different lunches each day.
Love this !!
That's how it should always be a man/woman relationship needs two people that compliment each other in their roles like opposite sides of a magnet it's how it's balanced and healthy for both
So you‘re like a slave to him, only that he gets to sleep with you, too. Obviously he earns a pretty good salary, but that is definitely not the standard anymore.
@happy doga If that’s how a relationship with a man and woman should be then why are my parents happy and just fine with both working, doing chores and taking care of me and my brother? Their pretty happy with sharing the work. And my mom likes that my dad helps her out with us and cleaning and my dads happy that he doesn’t have to worry about income because if he was the only one making money there would be some financial problems in our family. We do better with both parents working an equal amount of hours and my mom, dad and I sharing the house work. My brothers a little too young to do chores but when he’s old enough he’s going to help us clean. And usually with all three of us it only takes up our morning on a Saturday then we have the rest of the weekend to hang out. It’s also better for me and my brother because then our dad isn’t working all the time and he gets to spend time with us. And because he doesn’t have to work as many hours he can be there to help me with my math homework. Then our mom also gets some time away from us. And with them both working I get the house to myself and I can have my alone time. Also my mom is happy that she doesn’t stay at home all day and do chores. In my family everyone in the house doing the same amount of work is beneficial and conforming to the 1950’s gender roles would make my family miserable. Especially my mom. Then we wouldn’t even get to spend time with our dad. So I have to disagree with you. There is different was a man and woman in a relationship could be it just depends on the people. However from what I’ve seen and what I want out of a relationship I think men and women should be equal and be doing the same amount of work as the other and sharing the work. I don’t want to sit around the house all day and do all the chores and run errands and take care of the kids while my husband does nothing but work to support us. Then he comes home late and only has time to spend with me and the kids is the weekend. No thanks. I want to work to help support my family and I want everyone under my roof to participate in chores. Then with everyone doing the work things will get done faster then we would have time to spend together. With me working me and my husband could work less hours and have more time at home with each other and the kids on weekdays. Then you have the morning on Saturday to do chores then you have the rest of the weekend to go out and have fun. I just see things getting done faster with me and my husband sharing everything we need to do.
@@FunBoysGaming i dont think so. if you have read the comment carefully, you will realise that she manages finances of the house.
What we seem to have forgotten today is that strong women fought for the options of fellow women - not the compulsion. But today, society is structured around the compulsion for women to work, the compulsion of needing a double-income household, the compulsion to get married later and have children later, the compulsion to constantly be in the stressful rat race, etc. Compulsion of choice is hardly a choice at the end of the day. It showcases how western society flopped from one radical to another - the one radical was the 1960s where women's options were highly limited and the other radical is today where women are expected to be breadwinners, constantly vying for career advancement, and juggling all responsibilities inside and outside the home. It is truly ridiculous. My ultimate dream is to work from home. I do want to work because I actually enjoy it but I want to be a writer at home and remove myself from the rat race one of these days when we have the financial stability to do so. It feels natural to me.
Yep lots of youtube blogs and digital nomads in China & other undeveloped countries on youtube that I am jealous of.
Exactly 💯💯💯
You ate
I understand what you mean with the 60s view of gender roles compare to today. Do you think that these extremes are equally ridiculous?
Nette. I think many women have been conned. They reach a point in their life and feel they have achieved nothing. They may have had a successful career and acquired many material things. But it dose not satisfy them. It might all have come at a terrible cost. They may find they are to old to have children and have not had the time to develop close meaningful relationships.
As a woman, the opportunity to educate and work is the most important thing for me. I cannot imagine a world where women don’t have the opportunity to study, work and develop. I think I wouldn’t be able to function well without it.
Also, I think every woman should be encouraged to study and gain financial independence. Being dependent is dangerous. Especially for women.
Absolutely. Agree with you 100%. It’s always dangerous to be dependent, but especially now.
As a housewife, I sit right there at the table with my homeschooled kids, studying Latin or philosophy or botany or mythology or mycology or whatever I want in between helping them with their lessons. I am a total nerd, I would go nuts not being able to learn. I have a lot more time for that than most working ppl do, though - it fits right in with the homemaker schedule. Being dependent on a boss, the economy, the government - all those are dangerous, too. A loving husband is so much more motivated to go the extra mile to ensure your wellbeing than any of those.
@@suziepeaches321 people just want women to be poor it’s sickening
@@suziepeaches321 it’s sickening men are just threatened by educated women, I will never allow anyone to manipulate me into thinking making money isn’t important in women’s life I much rather be masculine than to be poor.
@@naisin5607 an educated woman is the biggest threat to men. She won’t be obedient, she won’t agree with everything they say, she won’t believe in everything they say. She does things that empower HER and other women. Men hate it.
What we won't understand is that being a home maker doesn't make women inferior to men nor does going to work and being the provider of the family make men superior, both are equally important to establish a balanced family and society.
Being financially dependant is dangerous, that’s the problem. Majority of women who don’t leave abusive relationships don’t leave due to financial dependance. If they’re not inferior then don’t say men are the head of the households, they’re equally important so do not imply that one leads
Balance is written in the fabric of the Universe's DNA
@@TaraCarmelina but there are women who are financially independent still end up with abusive men. Explain that?
@@carlesiajones8642 he said majority of women. Sometimes the reasons are over trusting or acceptance.
But these days everyone has to be "independent". Even husbands and wives apparently have to be independent of eachother which is ridiculous of course.
Homogenous societies are happier than diverse societies...
Ain’t that the truth
Japan...
@@TheChocolateChiken Just because corporations make money from black men being in jail does not mean that's good for Americans.
How do you explain South Korean then? They have one of the highest suicide rates in the world while being completely homogenous. (I agree with you by the way, I'm just curious)
Urethra Franklin isn’t that to do with their extreme work culture? Very different from the relaxed Scandinavian one.
@@proxi1394 Partly - there are many reasons for high suicide rates in South Korea. One of the main reasons is the terrible welfare system, which doesn't support the elderly once they retire. In order to avoid being a burden on the family, the elderly will often kill themselves, especially in rural areas. Other reasons include the stigma around mental health, which discourages people from receiving treatment. The extreme work culture does contribute to suicide rates, particularly in students aged 10-19. Schooling becomes very competitive because of societal pressures, and the need/desire to get into a good university. It is a lot for a kid to handle.
If you want to be a housewife, go ahead and be a housewife, do whatever you want to do. Maybe by being a housewife and giving the kids the kind and loving presence they need, they'll go on to greatly benefit society and do amazing things
Or men will become more involved and society will improve. What you describe never worked well, it created violent men and submissive women with no rights.
@@arifromrsfa You dont speak for us. You dont choose for us. Every girl should do what they want, even if it means raising proper children.
@@bjorn1900 hahaha, nice try. You meant "JP you don't speak for us". What you said is what I said. You don't speak for anyone, you are not "us". No one is "us", but for JP women are all one.
@@bjorn1900 and that goes for men too, "even if it means raising proper children". The moment you assign that only to women you are not giving women the right to be whatever they want as well as to men. And is women, not girls, they are not raising children, they are children too.
"but it's tough eh? Because the Scandinavian Countries are relatively Homogeneous..." Jordan Peterson is so Canadian
@@Panzer_ze_tank What about twat?
😅
This statement is so untrue. Just look at Japan, China and Korea
@Marc Dumont Yes I would say it's extremely false
@Marc Dumont the one about them being racially homogenous causing them to be happier
Surely that depends on the individual, which is the whole reason why freedom is the best way to go.
Yeah. Even if some choices are better than others, we were gifted "free will" to make something out of it.
I am a happy stay-at-home Dad. My wife enjoys her job and isn't sure she'd quit if we won lotto money.
Sounds nice lol
Cool👍
@James so men at work are seeing other women?
@James and men who work enjoy being around other women :)
@James you know it takes time to understand living consciously. It's okay if you don't see it now.
If your passion is working in a specific field or you want to work/ have a career in general, then go ahead.
If you want to be a stay at home mother, then also go ahead. You can’t enforce traditional or modern roles on anyone, because every individual has different interests, enforcing one of the roles would confine the other, which is why people should be making their own choices.
Just do what pleases you and makes you a happy person.
@Drewskey you mean brainwashing
@Drewskey you need to open a dictionary, no insult here. You dont need to try to convince others to become submissive just because you believe is their role solely based on their gender. You have been indoctrinated that way and want to brainwash others as well. Dont. Each it's own.
@Drewskey I am not responsible for your feelings. It was a simple explanation that try to convince people to limit themselves according to their gender because you believe they need to be confined to it is indoctrination and not respectful.
@Drewster saying people should follow specific roles based on gender is absolutely closed minded.
@Drewster yup it is, its called being primitive
The Scandinavian data only shows people gravitate towards more traditional gender roles regarding career choices. Of course, traditional gender roles are defined by many other things, like women mostly staying home to care for their children instead of working, and that trend is not changing at all in Scandinavian, quite the contrary: more and more women are pursuing careers. So the Scandinavian data does not confirm traditional gender roles, only traditional gender career choices.
Yes!
Worked for eight years. Married and had a baby. I stay home and take care of my little one. I have never been happier.
You’re right
@Napucana Uličarka exactly. There is nothing right with it, just her experience.
@Napucana Uličarka yes until you're 40 career woman who desperate want husband and children
A lot of the comments are saying "whether you want to work or be a stay at home mom, do what you want and dont let others stop you "
Its a good thing to say but the problem is that young girls have to make these family or career choices rather quickly and they don't know that what they want to do is in fact their true desire or is it just media influenced opinion that they have temporarily formed.
They have no choice. Because these girls have a window after a certain age that window closes and it becomes very different for them to find a partner.
But I really want to work and become a researcher. Learning new things is my passion. So what should I do now? Commit suicide???
@@pratikshatiwari7011 why would you commit suicide if you want to become a researcher?
@@giovannieista8106 ofcourse I will. Demise of my ambition is demise of me. I cannot live in a world which punishes me for wanting to keep dreams and family at par. But the question wasn't about me I was just asking in general that what should women like me and my 2-3 friends should do?
@@pratikshatiwari7011
You should not be angry at others for not allowing you to do what you want but you should be angry at yourself for being afraid of taking on the struggle that you will have to take on on your journey of truth.
You should follow the road that you believe to be true, with enough conviction that you do believe that even if you die while following your true path, then it will be worth it. Why should anyone think about suicide if they can become a martyr instead.
I believe that you and other girls like you should follow your belief to find meaning in your life. If you are following your dream to prove to others that your decision was correct and if it didn't work in the short rerm, then you might become nhilistic and suicidal because you statt to believe that it is meaningless. That is why it is very important to start with the mindset that what you are doing and the struggle you are facing will be meaningful even if it results in your demise.
You here refers to all others like you
Gotta love Joe Rogan, that man is always looking for the middle ground on just about everything
Great man
Except the vaccine issue...
People need to be just as open to the idea that traditional gender roles will make them happy, just as much as they should be open to non-traditional roles making them happy.
Saying you can't be a stay at home mom or thinking you have to break norms is just as damaging as being forced into it.
Agree. It is the freedom to make the best choice for the individual and families involved.
@Thomas Serrano you're so entirely wrong. There are 7 million unfilled positions in the workforce in the U.S. (at least there were before the pandemic), and there are still both skilled and unskilled fields where over 99% of the workers are men.
And women entering the workforce did not come about because of feminism, it came about because of WW2, when most eligible men were drafted leaving nobody to work. Women were required to step in to work in factories to provide munitions for troops.
@Thomas Serrano interesting point of view about how much choice people really have. I agree with you.
Thomas Serrano That makes no sense. More workers means that product demand doubles and companies increase in size, therefore demanding MORE jobs.
@@agees924 Demand doesnt double.
Women and men were both buying things when women werent in the workforce. Women enter the workforce.
Now double the product IS being made, but its not like women wrent buying, and now they are. Its just the supply now increases the demand.
And therefore wages go down.
What works for you, works for you. Don’t try to force tradition on anyone who doesn’t want it.
Exactly
I wonder though how many people tend to think of themselves as “enforcers” vs. how many people think of themselves “advisers”. I would like to think that most people just want what’s best for each other. Although the actions of a few of late make that questionable.
As far as I’m concerned if it is left at “friendly” advice (and I use the term friendly very loosely here) I’m okay with that. I can take it or leave it. When you go beyond that to the point of interfering in my life to whatever degree of power that you may have to do so, then we have a problem. (The only exception to this in my life would be the people that I have WILLINGLY made myself accountable to for the purposes of improving myself, even then there are limits. )
Yeah
And vice versa. Don’t try to force liberal things to anyone who doesn’t want it.
Yes traditional roles are a big no for me 👎
Having the extremes of 5% on each side feels right.
Most people are around the middle and aren’t vocal.
The only reason I'd want to have a job is to have my own money so I don't feel guilty with what I spend money on
You should feel guilty with what u spend ur money on, don't be a dumb consoomer
@@LoseBellyFatNow0 nah dude, consumerism is good, it drives the economy and creates jobs.
@@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065 fuck the economy and jobs
And that’s a good thing. More power to you.
@@LoseBellyFatNow0 edgy bro much articulate much brain
It depends on the person.
There, I solved the problem.
Got it all in one
This is why I like Peterson. He had an opportunity to say yes people are happier with traditional gender roles that actually become more apparent in more egalitarian societies. Someone else who is trying to play the I'm right you're wrong game may have taken it. But instead he said "I don't know" because there's no hard data to support it, what the extraneous variables. Respect.
EXACTLY. We need more people who don't just jump the gun. We need more people to think before they speak, and take the side of truth instead of the side of a polarized debate.
TRUE!
Their is in a form, woman who are and were married, life expectancy was shortened and is shown be more depressed in the relationship . That's with traditional gender roles..
And this is only problem of western countries
Because he knows peoppe like u wouldnt like it
Thank you for the upload, but a more accurate title would be "Homogeneous Societies and the News Media."
Basically all he said about gender roles is that it's not clear how much it contributes to the happiness of Scandinavians.
As someone who is highly driven and ambitious, i also know that i would not like to be married, come home after a long day of work, look after the kids, clean up. It sounds mentally draining. I honestly would rather just raise my kids at home
If you make enough money you could just pay somebody else to do it but that's probably not great to be so disconnected from your family, my parents both worked very hard and kept me in an afterschool program and they got divorced so that for sure doesnt work for everyone but they probably just didn't know any better
Do you also want all the money in the world but not be married and have no children of your own?
Still it’s a 53% divorce rate. Get a education before you get kids. « Happy» is most often the same as lucky. Get the ensurance of education, then make the decision
@@Ikaros23 Honestly, I think there are signs if a couple will get a divorce way before they get married or have children.
How well do their personalities, goals, beliefs and values fit together?
Do they resolve conflict quickly and respectfully?
Do they always work as a team?
Are they willing to give up their single (selfish) life for a life that consistently involves another human being and who they are and what they want out of life?
Divorce is written all over the couple that thinks with all the crazy amount of differences they have that they will make it through.
Think about why your best friends were always your best friends? They were/are your best friends because there was a solid standard that the each of you remained at. Sometimes you’d each drift off in one direction or another but there always remained a level where no matter what, the commonalities always seemed to outweigh the differences.
You're obviously not highly driven or ambitious.
That is not compatible with the life you've just laid out for yourself.
Ambition is a traditionally male trait.
Nothing wrong with not being ambitious.
The left is not saying “women have to have careers and men have to be stay at home carers” - all we’re saying is that women and men should be able to choose. Most will stick to the traditional gender roles, great. If a minority of people are happier outside of their traditional roles then they should have the freedom to deviate without being vilified. The end
The problem is the left is vilifying women who chose to stay committed and submitted(not like a dog or something ) to their man..the women nowadays are encouraged to be « strong and independent » which really goes a little bit against their own nature..and the women who chose to be traditional are called weak and have their minds constantly corrupted by the ridiculous « i don’t need a man » trope.. it is possible to be independent and strong in a marriage while simultaneously submitting to your husband...the strength shouldn’t be to knock heads with your husband and the independence shouldn’t be to make your husband feel like he is useless..you can be independent but still let your man be a man.. that is exactly why a lot of these « strong » feminists radiate anger and unhappiness nowadays..because their nature wants them (like all of us) to seek a man to procreate..but they are literally fighting against their nature by convincing themselves they « don’t need a man »
Liam Harris - and who is against that? That’s been a given for decades. The left doesn’t have a patent on the desire for equal opportunity.
th-cam.com/video/KMrKod6zYFU/w-d-xo.html
Nguegang Fabrice And that’s EXACTLY what Rightist men tell independent women. That they should submit and stay at home like geez...let us think for ourselves.
No vocal part of the left is implying that? Come on
Everyone have their own recipe for happiness: mine is having only 1 child,stay home,but also work from home for few hours a day(it depends on the day)and make money this way
YAP. i always said this to everyone. Each of us define happiness differently. 👏. Why do we have to judge everyone meanwhile in the end we're all just trying to be happy.
@@immapunchu5313 Exactly!!👏
What job do you do working from home?
Thanks for sharing the truth
@@immapunchu5313 as long as in the process of getting your happiness, you didn't take away other people happiness
In modern societies, the only work valued is the work that generates a pay check. As much as I stand for empowerment of women, feminism put forward the message that what men do is valuable and hence women must do it too! And not, the roles women played should be respected more than it is.
This is an interesting discussion.
Are men precious?
Women are precious!!
You are male chauvinist
Happiness is prety high in Scandinavian - they don't have obscene levels of inequality, public schools are amazing and there's health care for everyone.
that's what I find so interesting about those countries because they're relatively small and from what I know not overbearingly diverse to the point that such a system is perfect for the nation
ϟAHMEDϟ I would say that they are content with their living means and don’t try to reach for too much beyond what is necessary. They are usually well off financially and don’t have to deal with racial issues. This is a observation without stats
@zainab hamze Where does it say that they have the highest suicide rate? Please tell me. Last I checked those are usually poor countries, mostly South America, If I am not wrong.
Scandinavians who immigrate to America are more happy and more successful than in their native land
All of this reminds me of that Utopia experiment where scientists created a terrenal paradise for their rats. They multiplied then all of them died after some time.
I have seen stay at home mothers getting a divorce while being financially dependent. So they go from a comfortable living to a life full of struggles. And that is a reason why I think women should not fully depend on a man.
Well, if you're getting a divorce, you shouldn't have married them in the first place, should you?
Make divorce illegal, but make the punishment for domestic assault much worse. Problem solved
Comrade Artyom Gaming Making divorce unlawful will likely only lead to increased domestic abuse and even if you make the punishment for domestic abuse more severe, it probably won't curb it. The solution you're proposing is frankly nonsensical, no offence.
Women have the welfare system to lean on..... Men DONT !!!!
frog LV. 20 I mean in a perfect world yeah, but sometimes spouses cheat or become abusive. In an instance like that you can’t always see it coming.
"The silent majority" cannot be stressed enough. Most people aren't far right or far left, we are in the middle and have values from both parties. Example, I believe in gun rights and abortion.
I guess we should make homicide legal since some people are okay with it 🤷♂️
I was stay at home mom and now I am employed. You want to hear the truth? I am much happier now. I have never been this tired,but I am content. We are much happier as a family, because I am no longer depressed and frustrated.
As a black man, every time people start talking about making America more like the Scandinavian countries, I get a lil nervous lol.
I'm with you brother, and I'm not even black......fuck those places!
@@sean-nw5uy Well the south has a very brutal history with black people lol
How much do you actually know about Scandinavia?
As a black woman living in Norway, Im pretty sure you dont have to worry about that!
@@burton5131 lm black American i agree with you. The black man name botham sham jean a Caribbean immigrant was shot dead in his own apartment in Texas.I bet that dose not happen there are any other place in the world.
Just let each family decide what works out best for them!
Children is a woman’s first priority and a man’s first priority is supporting the family.
I'm pretty sure we've evolved from caveman hunter gatherer stages LOL. Are you still doing cave paintings and the war chief of your tribe? Idiot.
Not mine. You're wrong, lol
@@penny4thought168 I misspoke, God should be everyone’s priority then family.
@@rosea2350 I'm athiest, and I don't respect religious that promote rape.
@@rosea2350 God is a proprity only for worthless cowards like you, who don"t accept what death is. You are a sad excuse for a human being. COWARD
I deleted all social media apps on my phone (except for TH-cam and WhatsApp due to reasons that has to do with my work) and stopped watching the news months ago.
Result : an absolute peace of mind and I swear I didn’t miss anything except for the depression and the anxiety that I used to get from them.
Jordan “Intelligentsia” Peterson
As a Chinese if you go into a Chinese owned building you will see two lion statues guarding the main entrance. If you notice the two lions are different. One holds a ball or earth in its paw symbolising male), while one holds a cub in its paws (female).
Chinese believe in gender roles and believe me that Chinese women are not subservient. They are very strong headed equal to the man and I am raising my daughter that way.
Tbf Chinese people also eat bats so...
@@senoritaaurora5123 lol idiot
thats soo cool!! although the symbolization is kinda irritating to me but i get the point
Can’t speak for women but I feel more accomplished and happy with myself when I provide
@Lunu how old are u? Cuz I can bet the female instincts kick in when ur in ur 30s.
Dr Peterson talking about "CNN on steroids" and the news "being everywhere 24/7" reminded me of 1984, Brave New World and also UBIK, a very scary vision.
Sure it might be great to have traditional gender roles in your home. Do it willingly, not because you feel you have to serve the man. The man must also be grateful your waiting on him hand and foot, if he is not then it’s a servant and master relationship.
Lol what? Who said traditional gender roles are about 'serving the man'? A proper marriage is about serving each other, equally, and having deep respect for each other that is earned. And yes, you absolutely should be grateful for each oterh. Waiting for him on hand and foot? What?
Of course traditional gender roles can be abused, but that's not the ideal, but the abusing of the concept. Don't abuse it, sure. But maybe marriage is not about high independence, for either parties.. It's about love and solidarity for each other and a deeply meaningful union.
@@obbavyakti5805 You must be thinking about the American traditional gender roles while I’m over here growing up with Hispanic and Latino traditional gender roles
@@sophiaageitos2763 Yes, certainly Western ones although I myself am from Central Europe. Sorry for jumping on you like that.
I am sorry that you have to experience that. I think that the category of women and of men are equally valueable, and that while they have a lot of similarities, they also both have something incredibly valueable to offfer. That's the ideal I believe in. Certainly not total submission of one or the other of them. A real man doesn't expect obedience from his wife, nor the other way around. A certain form of submission, potentially, as there are different cultures and traditions, but respect and love, and interest in the needs and wants of the other is fundamental.
@@obbavyakti5805 Thank you for taking another understanding look
@@sophiaageitos2763 Thank you for letting me see something new. I wish you all the best!
My goal in life is to ask JP a question and have him say, that's a good question
Peterson is the mouth of Wisdom
And isn’t that a tragedy?
More like a non-stop bullshiter. Fucking annoying. Sounds like a broken record.
@@KM-em9me maybe you should try to understand his logic, not just his tone of voice
Before I watch I’ve thought about this myself some already knowing about the Scandinavian countries and hearing Jordan Petersen talk about this. I think it may be in part because life is easier when you fit in and know what you want to do. Less chaos basically for Jordan Petersen fans
You talked about the title for 10 seconds...
IMAN he goes into homogenous societies and irregularity within Nordic countries and how our roles are different compared to those of other societies
The question still wasn’t answered
He said its unanswerable, then talks about the variables that make it a apples to oranges comparison. Listennnn
@@codguy565 doughnut
@@andrewcruz1931 no, the question was asked and discussed. The title of the video is the content of the video. They discussed the hypothetical question of the title of the video and some of the foundation of the nature of further knowledge and data that would be required to research further into the answer that he doesn't yet know
I think leaving maximum choice to the individual is the way to go. If these roles are indeed natural we'll get there better than through some very oppressive conservative laws
@Drewskey people can decide for themselves if they make sense for them and not impose them on others
Although i think the left is too ideological to care for their well being
The last part is so true,its like news is everywhere and I noticed that most news regarding the society is sort of in the negative spectrum,it potrays a dire image,doesn't matter if it is left or right inclined. And thats the news which gets the most attention,more than sports or technological or scientific news. As he said,for peace of mind I have left almost all social media platforms and it feels peaceful.
There ain't a single thing wrong with women who choose to raise kids at home.
and nothing wrong with a mom and dad who work. or two moms who work. or two dads two work.
@@kooby122 and you didnt have to point that out, because thats not attacked religiously right now.
@@paccawacca4069 it is, but I agree its no longer attacked as much as it used to.
@@kooby122 It is not attacked at all.
No major media company attacks working women. They all push it. There is not a single prominent cultural institution in america that attacks working women. At all.
Its just not true that its attacked.
The issue is that not all women want to be happy home makers and have kids ....this is what these types forget ...women have individual wants and needs
Siren Thomas exactly
Or that it’s not an option for some. Things cost money and women have to work at times. Doesn’t make us gender traitors.....
And not all men want to work at some shitty jobs that make them miserable.
Well then men need to go to college or trade school as many women have done to get your money count up. Women fought hard not to be chained to the kitchen ....
I want a career in mental health guess what i did WENT FOR WHAT I WANTED a hole doctorate later here I am. So what was that about women not knowing what they want. You must be talking bout ya mammy you incel turd
I want my wife to be well educated both socially and academically, however I would much prefer to have a more traditional family as far as duties and responsibilities go. I just don’t want my wife to NEED me to get by in life. If anything were to happen to me, I’d want to know that she’s in a position to take care of herself and the children. Plus I’d much rather talk to a girl that can actually hold a real conversation with me
So basically u dont really know what u want ..)
@@alinan4320 He does, you are just dense. He wants an intelligent and educated woman, who would be a stay-at-home mother. But he wants his partner to be a person who is equal to him (bare minimum for both men and women), and who wouldn't be devastated if they couldn't rely on him anymore.
@@obbavyakti5805 no I think he believes a traditional family is one where both parents work. He likely thinks this because his parents likely work and doesn’t know any better. Nothing wrong with that though
@@obbavyakti5805 she won't be able to work as a stay at home mother. if something were to happen to him, he expects her to be financially independent but how likely would that be if she basically kills her career to stay at home lmao what a logical fallacy 😂
"I’d want to know that she’s in a position to take care of herself and the children"
Then she needs to work to maintain experience and a good resume you absolute idiot.
This clip amplified a really good point from Peterson. The political climate is not as polarized as the MSM, or, dying media would have you believe.
Having the freedom to choose is important! Then, choose whatever you like and what does not harm other human beings.
Jordan: Variables that contribute to satisfaction - homogenous cultures, smaller nations to govern and rich people.
India has left the chat
He could be a stunt double for Rick Grimes
IMO people feel good when they know the plan/what to expect. In traditional families perhaps they have more formal roles so that maybe part of it. But then again, it is probably also healthy to have some flexibility in your family roles. He made excellent points about Nordic countries: smaller population and wealth etc.
What do you do if you don’t like your traditional gender role, but also see the objective value of it?
I struggle a lot with being a stay at home mom. The isolation and relentlessness of it are breaking me down, and I feel like I’ve lost myself in this vortex of motherhood. I understand that, traditionally, women also had support systems, which I do not. I often wonder if I’d feel differently if I wasn’t so profoundly alone. (It also makes a big difference that I’ve had three kids within three years- young children are wondering but demanding.)
I also subscribe to attachment theory, so I stay home with my kids and breastfeed, co-sleep, baby wear, etc. I want to provide the attachment, but I do badly yearn for adult connection and a place in society. I feel trapped, but I can’t talk about this with leftists because I also think they’re wrong. My children need me, so I’m there for them. There just has to be some middle ground that I’m simply missing.
(I’ve tried talking to other women about this and they tell me to go back to work, and when I try talking to people on the right they just tell me to suck it up.)
@@asdf1991asdf Thank you for saying this. I've really been struggling, as I live in a liberal area and have faced a lot of stigma for staying home and homeschooling. Not having any connections with women has only compounded the burn out and isolation, and. I hope that I can find or create a community or "village" of support and understanding. And thank you for commending the efforts in staying home- I strongly subscribe to attachment theory so, as many mistakes as I make, I at least know that my kids have and will never need to worry about being abandoned or unwanted.
I'm having my 1st and only hopefully.. I wanted to get pregnant for the wrong reason - merely because I wanted the experience but the weight of responsibility I feel on my shoulders don't seem worth it .. I want to be a stay at home mother for now because I want to experiment and learn .. I feel like having a job and a demanding infant while I'm recovering would impede the learning process .. no one quite understands my views either I don't like kids especially little boys and I also find them gross but i would be severely heartbroken to lose this child and I'm excited about all the things I want to share and I'm terrified of giving birth .. I really hope I can live with the only thing I need to worry about is just the stretch Mark's and minimal to no tearing. I lack interest in jobs and want to focus more on being available for my husband and son .. at the same time I just don't like the idea of giving up my personal freedom to raise a child .. I got pregnant by accident after 6 years of thinking I couldn't.. I didn't exactly try to not be pregnant because I was always curious. I am of 2 minds will I be happy with a child or will I regret this .. I haven't quite worked those feelings out
@@focusedstudying8993 late to the party, but you sound like someone who has never had kids. This lady was TOO BUSY for a hobby, that's why she felt isolated in that season of her life. She *was* being useful and had plenty challenges, trust me. All she lacked was support.
I know i am. In fact, i think i couldnt be with a man that wanted to stay home
Sorry to say it like this, but i've seen some of those women.... they aren't the best people to deal with it. Maybe you are different, sure. But it's just so fucking weird when it happens.
I’d love a guy who wanted to stay home. Because I don’t want to be a homemaker but I’d feel guilty putting my future kids in daycare.
@@heartsxday Then be a lesbian
Kind of hypocritical of you though don’t you think? You would look down on a man who stays at home but also expect him to treat you with respect and pay for everything you ever need.
@@samuelwhittenburg8742 I dont think its hipocritical, is just how i would want my marital life to be. I dont know if i want to be a stay at home mom, but, in abstract, i am not attracted to the idea of a man staying at home, as that is what i kind of want to do and i think is more feminine. No disrespect to coupes who do it the other way. just personal preference.
His comment on news and media is so true! Thanks for sharing it.
There’s a social safety net and a basic standard of living, good education and free healthcare, plenty of vacations, therefore people are happy. Not rocket science.
From what I've seen (which is unbelievable), people do seem happy in traditional gender roles, they just don't like to be told that they can't do otherwise and may even go out of their way to prove the nay sayers wrong.
I think women back then used to be depressed because they have no choice over their future
nowadays we can go to school and college and work besides being wives and care about our families 👍🏻all my teachers and professors at university are married and mothers and some of them are even grandmothers
There is no problem with women wanting to work in fields that complement their feminine and nurturing nature (i.e. nurse, teacher, maybe a shrink, etc) as long as they can still make time for fulfilling their roles as wife and mother. The problem starts when women want DIRECT competition with men (usually for employment in high-salary jobs) and EXPECT the same success while bringing less suitable merits, or plainly being less competent, for that specific job than their opposite-sex competition. The typical high-paying corporate positions largely demand for level-headedness, wisdom, decision-making, leadership, and rationality, all of which men typically excel at. These feminists are fighting against meritocracy, only when it does not benefit them. And it's also fishy how it's always the six-figure+ salary job that are argued about amongst these feminazis.
Really? If you lok at the data women are MORE depressed today than in the past. Women don't want to work, go to college and become an indepent cat lady.
@@Nimbereth The unhappiness of women is due to the awareness of today's chauvinism and NOT because they can do what they want.
Also, social media makes both genders depressed.
Think before you write
@@neymar6756 woman love chauvinism
@@neymar6756 and today society more sexists against men than women
I wish I could somehow show this to every American tonight! We need this message now more than ever.
1:10 ""More homogenous societies tend to be more peaceful and happier."" I know! I, a Scandinavian, keep trying to tell people this; that we should (nearly) close our borders, and rather spend more money on building infrastructure in third world countries. Hardly anyone listens. I assure you, Scandinavia will not stay homogenous for long.
Well people in 3rd world countries would stay within their borders if the P5 countries stop stealing their resources and funding terrorism there
@@timaa.4379 To what extent does the West steal 3rd world resources, can you give some examples? I think China is the great culprit when it comes to modern resource "theft"? Also, what terrorism are you referring to? To the extent that The West is draining the 3rd world, I definitely agree we should stop. I suspect you are referring to private enterprises, though, and I don't know how we could stop that without resorting to communism, which itself would have a massive cost in human suffering.
The West gives huge amounts of aid to the 3rd world. It has also exported cultural and industrial technology which has pulled the rest of the world centuries to millennia ahead. The problem is that progress has been "invested" in masse growth in population rather than welfare. Therefore, I don't think the solution for the 3rd world is as simple as "more resources". That hasn't worked in the past, because the 3rd world is in a demographic stage where economical surplus increases population size, not welfare. Right now, further population growth would make global warming a true nightmare.
@@dramonium Japan and South Korea are doing exceptionally well for non-western societies, though, so I think those examples defeat your purpose.
I think everyone is different and it isn’t ok to polarize what a relationship is supposed to be. If you and your partner are happy that should be enough
@Drewskey your ignorance is actually mind numbing. Stop being so closeminded and just let two people be happy.
@Drewskey I said nothing about my political views, all I said is two people are allowed to be happy together regardless of their sex. You are merely projecting your insecurities about the political and religious climate we live in.
@Drewskey fake facts and hatred aren't arguments either.
@Drewskey "it's against god's marriage". Fake fact.
I assume that religious people like you believe that God created humans. Being gay is biologically very natural and everything natural in humans like the organs, natural instincts which you believe are God made. Nobody "converts" into gay because it's a trend or its cool or something. It's just who you are as a person.
Some people even say I'm against homosexuality and it's their "opinion". It's like saying a person shouldn't be smart or be naturally very tall because your opinion is against it. Homosexuality has also been observed in other animals, not only humans. Relationship isn't only about sex.
So if two asexual men engage in a relationship but doesn't have sex, is this type homosexual relationship okay?
Jordan peterson is really something else, never seen someone as articulate in this lifetime
Me and my gf take up more traditional roles and we're both happy, it just feels natural
cause it is :)
I think that: if mothers were planning to raise their children without having to do a job, then it will be a reasonable choice to select their husband based on their wealth .which is not what men are looking for in women sadly...
Exactly... but if the traditional wag is encouraged.. it will definately lead to this.
Turns out that university schooled women look for a partner smarter and better educated, better Job. Marriage is low amongst them. They do not find a lot satisfying men that can take care of them better than they themselve. Women in general look for men more capable then themselve.
The culture is now that a lot of educated women fail to find anyone, have no children.
You might argue that if culture valued family happiness more, women would be satisfied with less wealthy men. I pity lonely educated women, who are pushed to work first discovering they are too late for a family,husband and children.
@@nielsqbc4 well this means that equal roles or different gender roles both have their pros and cons both for men and women, then one should carefully analyse his/her situation before deciding about how to do with their lives, but most of these decisions are based on the cultural environment and parents put a huge amount of pressure.
@@nielsqbc4 They dont care, lots of women just dont want to take care of their ,,man" and cooking and cleaning, just have their life or normall boyfriend who is smart enough and do this things too. Probably if men helped more at home, women would not postpone children until later. Dont be sad for them, they are ok
"Mothers without a Paying job" you mean. If you don't outsource parenting to complete strangers (aka daycare, nanny and do forth), parenting is a full time job. Even when children are at school, you are preparing for the time they will be back. Societies have stopped putting children at the forefront. Nurturing children used to be the most important thing. Men went out to work for their children, women stayed home to ensure health and hygiene of the children. Extended families used to help out raising children. Then the joint family system collapsed. Now the nuclear family is collapsing.
People now do whatever the heck they want to do in the name of personal freedom and a myriad of -ism ideologies. Children suffer, society collapses.
It depends on the person, literally as simple as that, it's not stupid if you choose one way or another, it's just what you want to do.
Not everyone is equally ambitious. Who want more, should be allowed to work more. Those who don’t want that much, should be allowed to do less and not be shamed.
Some people probably are happier with traditional gender roles. Some people would be miserable. Gender Roles are only bad if they're forced. If a Woman wants to be Florence Henderson. Good for her. If a Woman wants to have a career and focus on her. Good for her as well
Totally agree with you. Well said.
I agree
I'm from Norway and can confirm this. Even though everybody at my college knows well about the woke left movement in USA, there's still the healthy differentiation between the two genders, seen in the never ending playful "fight" between the boys and girls.
Do women work in Norway??
I'm a woman haven't worked in almost 2 years now my man takes care of me. I prefer this life over working and dealing with horrible colleagues and bosses
Mr. Peterson for......President? Anyone agree? He is so educated and rational, logical, all that really matters...to me anyway.
He's Canadian. It would be interesting if he went for Prime Minister, but he's a social psychologist, not a politician. He has money, but only about 1.5 million. not nearly enough to run a campaign.
He sells books, has a patreon earning around 80k a month, speaks for interviews and lectures, also helps companies in developing tests for future workers (correct if there is more) while he has previously been a professor at multiple university’s including Harvard, which makes quite a bit of money. He definitely has a lot more than 1.5 million.
They pushed women to work for more taxable income and it also applied more stress on the family unit.
As a man I’d love and i plan to be the primary caregiver to my children.
Good luck man.
@@obedientdrone1179 It's easy for a punk 19yo that's picked up a few phrases, to piss off a guy that's possibly a hundred miles away. But then, I might be living right next to you. I'd be careful if I were an "obedient drone".
@@felixhuber7029 hope you get a good woman who will hold up the fort and raise your kids well. And appreciate your contribution m
I’m was more satisfied staying home with my children and raising them. When you work a full time job and have children something has to give at work or at home. I’ve also had children and a job. My kids always came first even at work if the school called I went to get them
My opinion: it depends. There's no one size fit all and everyone should do what works best for themselves
Both men and women should get to choose. Plenty of guys would make great stay at home dads but probably don’t feel they can do that as other men would look down on them.
For the first time ever I didn't get the JRE live notification and missed the whole show
Wow you live a hard life
I didnt either nor is the full video on my feed
I only found out by following them both on twitter. Didn’t get the notification either.
KangaRude Media it's a sign
Must be the left wing, Muslim, transgender, Marxist cartel that's famous for SiLeNcInG CoNsErVaTiVeS
Maybe the genders roles in Scandinavia make them happier and maybe not, but what the gender roles there indicates is that human naturally tend to choose that traditional roles if they have the choice, and by choice I mean with less media and social pressure like in the west which encourage women to leave their traditional role and try to have same role as men.
A nice name
I don’t know what world you live in, currently even in the Middle East where I live the married woman are encouraged by media and society to work and leave the traditional role, a lot of them may work and pay most of her salary to a nanny that watch over the house and kids just so the society doesn’t look to her as a weak dependent women
While the traditional role is not predefined as much as it is naturally chosen, different times, different places and still the gender roles is similar
So....did the question get answered though?
Happiness is higher in Scandinavia because of genetics. There are genes found more commonly in Scandinavians that are linked to higher rates of reported happiness.
Not everything is genetics.
@@ThatGuy-rm9uy The research showed that it was a genetic variant that caused it....so yes, in this case it is.
One thing I've noticed about women in modern relationships where they have a job and similar daily routine to their partners is that they're still doing the majority of the house work, child rearing, cooking and so on because those expectations still exist in society.
It leads to the woman feeling over stressed and under appreciated and deeply unhappy.
Traditional gender roles in relationships have the advantage of defining the roles and responsibilities of each partner quite neatly and if both partners are content with those and strive to live up to them those kinds of relationships can work well.
More modern relationship types don't have that framework so clear and constant communication about how to divide labour and coming to a consensus is vital. A lot of people simply aren't good enough communicators for that but when it's there those kinds of relationships can work out great as well.
I think that's the danger of what I see a lot on the internet these days with various influencers dividing men and women into homogenous categories and encouraging people to act in their relationship based on "what women want" or "what men want" Instead of simply asking the partner what they want out of the relationship and acting based on that.
Whether a relationship no matter the type is happy or miserable is entirely dependent on the individuals within it being compatible and on the same page.
When Joe asks a question, so you reword it and answer with “now that’s a good question.”
It's his job as a clinical psychologist to make sure he understands what he's hearing. It's called "reframing" - listen to what's being said/asked, repeating it using different words for confirmation or correction from the person, then giving them the answer. ✌
As a woman, I prefer traditional gender roles as long as my husband is respectful towards me. But it’s very hard to find. So I have to work, can’t depend on no man nowadays.
warning, simps inbound
Their out there but very rare , I have a good husband but he does come with some problems and frustrations.. I know I do as well .. despite trying his luck is awful and hes gone through a few cars .. had to stand my ground on this last one and say he isnt driving it, hes also gets laid off and gets periods of time where he just doesn't work.. even started school when our truck broke down .. every thing hes tried and wants to do effects me and I've had to save ,scrape and walk to work and groceries .. if it wasnt for me we wouldn't be able to stay at are apartment , draw back is I don't make much and we can't put anything back - I couldn't pursue a higher paying job .. kinda stuck at this one so we can have our baby .
In Sweden, women have a strong voice and we as a society are working towards a more gender neutral way of thinking. There is of course some fringe ideas and issues on both sides. However in general i think Sweden is a wonderful place to live.
we are planning to move to sweden with my husband :)
I don't see why would anyone care about these "happiness statistics". Only you know what will make you happy, go for it. Is your ambition to devote all of your time to your kids? Be a stay-at-home mom! Is your ambition to advance in the business world? Be a businesswoman! Do your ambitions shift from time to time? Shift from time to time!
Who cares if you'll be "looked down upon" by someone? You don't owe them anything. You don't owe any of it to the world, just do what works for you and your family.
Exactly!
Peterson is incapable of being boring, i could talk with him for the entire day and feel like it wasnt enough. I dont even have to agree with him on everything, and yet i would much rather have a talk with someone that i love to disagree with than with someone i regrettably agree with.