Hobbies good, drugs bad. In the morning, your sim gear will still be there. Drugs, you won't and someone else will sell your hobby gear for 5% of the purchase price. Choose wisely my friend 😄
First, another great review guys. I just got mine last week, and your review is spot on. Still waiting on the springs and dampener set as they were back ordered but are on the way now. I am moving up from an x52 stick and must say this is a huge upgrade over it. I can finally fly all the gazelle in DCS! Still using my x52 throttle for now until I get a collective and can save up for a new throttle. In fact I created a makeshift 45 degree support to mount my x52 stick to an am using it as an intermediate collective until I can get one. So far so good. Happy flying!
@@CakePrincessCelestia The F-16EX has a stick shaker option, coded to shake on events, like gear actuation, missile launch, bomb drop, high alpha maneuvers and landing, a couple more I can't think of atm. It won't pull/push the stick, but will give the similar tactile feedback.
@@michaelwmcdonald Michael, the base will have the Force Sensing insert option, which will mimic the small movements of the real F-16 stick base. Their F-16EX stick has a stick shaker option, that will provide modulated shaking intensity for different flight regimes, gear actuation, weapon launch/drop, landing, etc.
Just subscribed. I've been losing sleep over Virpil or Winwing. Your channel has convinced me to go Winwing. They have more options, features, good support. Love all your videos also. good stuff! keep it up please!
I have the original Orion 1 base for the f16, only a few months old and the spring broke inside. They are sending me another one but wondering if you know what the specs are on the springs so I don't have to get them shipped all the way from China next time they break, thanks.
I do not as we just do the review, but it may be possible to find a youtube video on how to determine what the new spring is after its arrival. If you live in the USA, a good start would be to take the spring to a local Fastenal Hardware store. They are usually pretty pricey, but I've found their staff knowledgeable. Good luck,
Since the 4 sides are symmetric can’t you just remove the spring from both axis, keep the cams installed, and install the dampers on the other 2 symmetric sides for dry clutch action for helicopter use? Can you also use spring and dampers at the same time? Great review. Been waiting for an assembly vid of the dampers. Winwing really should have included the 2x dampers with the base and only required the accessory kit for those that wanted different cam profiles and spring tension options. All in all looks like a winner here except for the boot. I may pick one up as I really want a dry clutch system and the extra MFSSB options in one base puts it a nod above the VKB base. Great work Winwing and looking forward to the MFSSB review GR! 👍
Thank you. We didn't try any of those combinations. We were focused at providing a first person look at the stated capabilities. I'm sure there are dozens of combinations that can be tried.
I've tried doing exactly this. You can absolutely have the dampeners on two of the unused sides. When in normal spring mode you can easily reduce the dampeners to zero tension. The problem is removing the spring/cams. To remove them is two screws (easy) but you need to stretch the spring to remove or install smoothly. With the default medium springs you can put some dimes in the spring coils and remove it okay but not smooth. With the strong springs (what I am using because I have the extension and the medium springs are just too light for it) even that is not enough. I wish this video showed the reinstallation of the cams so I could see how they did it and if it was smoother than the s**t show I managed.
@@wildbillkelso2083 thank you for the quick reply. Confirming you are saying you like the Orion 2 better, yes? I would like to ask a few more hardware questions. Will you please message me? I understand completely if the answer is no. Thanks for considering it.
@@vanguard9067 Yes, I like the Orion joystick 2-2 better for the above reasons. You may ask your questions here Vanguard, as it will give others who wonder the same things to see the exchange.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the info and invitation. I want to get into DCS and have checked out some hardware and I think made my choices what I am keeping. I have a couple of F-16 sticks and the WinWing F-16 throttle. Just getting into it, do I need rudder pedals now? What about some form of eye tracking hardware? Is is possible to do a Remote Desktop to configure the hardware? What about lessons? Thanks for your continuing guidance.
@@vanguard9067 You don't need rudder peddles to start, but they help immensely, and you will need them for helicopters and warbirds.There is Track Ir, and at least a couple lower cost versions available. I use Track Ir. Remote desktoping is probably unlikely as you must locally depress buttons, or cycle hotas controls to get them bound. Lessons can be expensive or not, depending if you have friends who will provide their time. I learned reading Chuck's guides for a general overview and hardware binding tutorials on TH-cam. Spend a lot of time reading, following the DCS module training missions, etc., before you venture into multiplayer. Full fidelity aircraft will take you at least 90 days to get competent with the stick/rudder work, and up to a year to become an expert in all of the modules systems. Most flying groups may have one or more people who provide free training days/times on their schedule. Get comfortable in single player missions. Try not to be "that guy" who buys a module, jumps on multiplayer and expects someone to show them everything. Putting your own sweat-equity in single player training will gain respect of others when you show up on the multiplayer world stage.
I put mine in the cart late Friday night but didn't pay yet. Saturday I went to pay and it was for pre-order only for the Orion 2 HOTAS Max - the F16ex was still available but not the throttle. Then while watching this video, I heard a ding in my email and its ready. Ordered now and on the way soon. I ordered two of the cams kit also.
Thanks for showing where to find the dead zone setting.... I just made a ~20cm long extension for my Orion 1 and the dead zone was just killing me. While I hadn't even noticed it it's around 1mm in size on default stick length. But with the extension it was like 1-1,5 cm up there. I was searching all over the place and only a few people even mentioned that "you can change it" but never *where*. The software could really use some improvements in layout as that thing should be under calibration rather than under the Z axis config in the middle of the X/Y display - which you generally use the graph for instead...
Just got 1 of these.... It's a massive upgrade over my PS5 controller :) Even though I haven't had a proper hotas for several years I did notice the deadzone and I am certainly gonna try it at 0 now. One more thing my f16ex stick spins on its axis unless I overtighten the collar to such an extent that the lock screw ends up in the front side of the stick and doesn't line up with the flattened portion at the rear. Anyone else have solutions for this?
You should not be concerned that the lock screw doesn't line up with the flat side of the stick. Lightly finger tightening the lock screw will not destroy the large threads and will keep it in place.
Hey cap a bit unrelated but I would love to see a new war-games series to see if the use and its allies could take the island of Hainan.I do believe that if war was to break out the USA would try and take the island. I loved watching the china vs Taiwan vid and I feel like you could reverse it now. You could use the Cyprus map as an analogue as you fit in the china vs Gawain vid. Much love cap!
@@wildbillkelso2083 need to find some reviews from actual helicopter pilots. It’s always frustrated me that all joysticks have springs and no force feedback.
You haven't heard? Winwing gear makes your 120s run faster and your wings jump higher. Oh, and each of your cannon rounds have 180 degree seeker heads. But seriously, aside from customer service, their stuff can almost be called 'fine craft'. Amazing stuff to be sure.
Got one coming with extension and variable cams and springs. Also ordered the take off panel. Waiting a bit before pulling the trigger on the super taurus and combat ready panel.
Do you know if the screw holes for attaching the Orion 2 to a mounting plate are in the same position as for the Orion v1, or require a different plate if using a table / chair mount etc. Thanks
Mine just arrived, changed to the helicopter set up right away and its awesome, so much easier to fly the Apache now, a really great bit of kit only let down by the extension part which seems like a weak link and they fact they went against the std coupling that other joysticks use like Wingwing/Thrustmaster basically locking out being able too use their extensions instead.
do helicopter rudder pedals work the same way as in they dont move back into position when you take your feet off? And if so are there rudders for helicopters?
@@lithium25693 you can use normal rudder for helis. the only thing you really need to worry about is MAYBE getting a joystick with no reentering. this winwing orion2 though can have it removed which is good but IMO dont bother for a collective unless you wanna really get immersed.
After watching your videos, great btw, I ordered my f16ex with orion 2 base. First of all, it was a nightmare to set them up in dcs steam so I went to standalone. Then I realized that it is probably a hw issue, since only the axis x and y are recognized but none of the buttons. I have already contacted and waiting response from winwing. Any recommendations of disassembly and hw troubleshoot? Thanks in advance
As someone who wants to fly helicopters commercially but fly fixed wing as a hobby and for fun in sims this interoperability WingWing has been pushing is a God send!! Will be saving me a lot of money and space!! How will these do with a stick extension?
Thank-you for the extremely hard work it was, not just to test the properties of these items, but to provide a workable solution for these, this is worth more than gold. Once again, thank-you gentlemen for making our collective experience more 'mode and modus'.! Cheers from Canada!! DCS is BI Fox2;}
Me too. It’s a fantastic setup, but running it springless with dampers only is NOT a smooth experience. Even with Nyogel & constant adjustments it’s clunky & sticky.
Regarding winwing products and thinking on reducing costs, and space. Do you know if it is possible owning only one MFD unit instead of several, adding a screen to it, and alternating the views of all the instruments displayed within a single unit just by pressing a key?
Good review. Another reviewer mentioned that they thought the new rubber shroud was a bit of a backward step. What is the shipping time to the UK/Europe from time of order? Are we talking a couple of weeks or several months, and what is the actual total cost with shipping and tax? Thanks.
Thank you. Skil received his review kit in 7 days to Scotland. Mine arrived in central US a couple days later. You'll have to look up the cost as there's several choices. The shipping + any tax/VAT will depend on your location. www.wwsimstore.com
You ask about the Orion throttle, mating with a Warthog Joystick? No, and I am unaware of any available manufactured adapter. If you mean mating a F-16EX throttle handle to a Warthog Throttle, the answer, again would be no, and I'm not aware of any available manufactured adapter.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks. Yes, I wanted to connect an Orion throttle instead of a Warthog throttle. And when it comes to modifications, since the 90s I have been making my own rudders or currently I am reworking the factory ones for my own needs. I recently converted one Worthog throttle to a helicopter lever. It's fun :)
Would have been great if WinWing would have given me a option/heads-up when ordering my F-16 stick & base a month prior to release of the J2-2 :/ WinWing seriously needs PR and ordering changes personnel ???
Understandable, but unfortunately, from what I hear, they've been at the mercy of component supply shortages and lockdowns. I'm only guessing, but they may not be in control of firm release dates until component availability becomes stable.
I know how you feel. I was fairly irate about my entire buying process. Prior to ordering the Libra I went through the entire 'ask a question process' on the 'English' website to get an idea if the Libra, and it's springs, could be customized for a 'f-16 'feel'. The only thing I receive is an e-mail in Mandarin. Don't know why, my question was not in Chinese, and on the English site nonetheless. Well, I don't have a HOTAS, and am a seasoned simmer returning after years away from sims, so I decide to buy the Libra and the F-18 stick. Then, and I'm not joking, a day after my order was sent (two days after my question) they release a new website and video introducing their new joystick base which has exactly what my question asked. I really feel like I was kicked in the family jewels. For me, that was already 5 strikes against Winwing and I hadn't even received my order. Along with my Stick/base order, I also ordered the Orion 2 F-16 throttle and sent them a question when I was unsure on how to put a couple of the final pieces together. This time I didn't get an answer in Mandarin, I got no response at all. Luckily I found a video someone made (not GRs throttle video) that helped me through it. Needless to say, their customer service needs some serious work to match the quality of their HOTAS. One thing is for sure however, and that is that I will not buy anything else from Winwing until I see better instructional videos (as manuals do not exist), and hear from others that a customer service does exit. Also, thanks to GR for the effort in this video, however, I'm not sure if your intention in these Winwing product videos are instructional or meant as quick 'get to know' videos. If instructional, you could, for example, at least address what to do if the tweezers do come loose and the nut does come out. To be fair, part of my critique of these (instructional?) videos also comes from the F-16 throttle/SimApp pro video. Instructional videos (if that's what these are meant to be) without speaking is like going to school to learn History from a book with drawings only. Either way, from this video or the video at the Winwing site, there is no way I would take apart something I spent $200-300+ on without complete instructions. Feel free to pass this on to Winwing, they don't seem to read my questions for some reason.
@@vvcv__00 Try getting CS from Starlink, a US company. It's non-existent. However, I also never needed it but many complain about it. CS for most companies is trash now a days. I have questions out to other sim companies and never heard back, so WinWing is not alone in poor CS. I ordered a HOTAS on eBay, paid and was told it shipped. It never shipped, was canceled and a refund a few days later. Then relisted for $100 more, and the seller had 4k plus positive rep. The seller never responded to a question I had on another item, nor did he communicate with me about the cancellation. Then their is Frontier Internet... well you get the point.
Thanks for the review. The dampener looks to be plastic, is this the case? I wonder how much endurance this component would have, and spending $50 for a replacement set of [springs, cams, dampeners] just to replace the dampener wouldn't be ideal. Is it possible to use the dampener in combination with the spring/ cams on the other side, for when flying a plane, to dampen after return to center from the springs, similar to the dry clutch mechanism on the VKB gunfighter MK III? Put another way, at the start of the review you detail 3 setups: 1. Spring / cam, either one sided or both sided setup on each axis. 2. Dampener only, helicopter 3. Force feedback - F16 is there a 4th setup possible of a. spring / cam one side b. Dampener other side, with a & b both on a single axis. I believe this would be comparable to the supra libra. A comparison between supra libra and Orion 2 bases would be a great addition. Or a comparison video to all competitors, in house and out of house - Supra Libra, VKB GF MK3, Virpil. Thanks.
Thank you Mark, you are free to experiment with any combination you like, including a 4th setup combo of dampers/cams. The force sensing module would be used without dampers/cams as it needs to feel your pitch and roll input pressure. The force feedback or internal stick shaker was introduced in the original F-16EX stick. I now see they offer the stick with and without the shaker. We will hold off on the Libra, J2-2 comparison, as I'm guessing there there may be Libre cam choices in the near future. I can say the Orion J2-2 beats the Virpil CM2 stick base for smoothness. I own one as well. I don't own any VKB gear so I don't have any insights for it. Hope that helps,
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the reply and info. For the third option I meant force sensing rather than force feedback, thanks for clarifying. Being able to have the damper & cam on a single axis is what I'm looking for. Though again my feedback for WinWing would be to have replacement plastic(?) dampener components as a separate stock item incase it fails and need replacing, independent from the cams or springs, $50 pack. 👍
@@Mk_IX_Hawk5690 A better design choice for WW is to go with a metal clamp and have the wear piece (teflon/polymer) as an insert to fit around the drum inside the clamp.
Thanks Michael, but we post one time, the prices that show on their store for the date we view them. For any changes, you probably should go with the store price.
The price of $229.95 posted on their Facebook page on July 25th "Happy Summer Holidays! 229.95USD For Both Grip And Base" is the "Orion2 F-16 Viper Joystick Combo(No Shake Kits)", the EX version reviewed here is the "Orion2 F-16EX Viper Joystick Combo(With Shake Kits)", the "shake kit" is the $50 cost difference, which includes the stick rumble function & extra hat/analog buttons attachment.
The Taurus throttle has a longer throw and provides superior speed adjustments, so it is my preference. The new Orion 2 stick base reviewed here is my new preference over the Libre due to its capabilities.
+GrimReapersAtomic *WinWinG still has a way to go to approach the Virtual Engineering Bureau and VirPil Controls in terms of zero dead zone.* Will the upcoming MFSSB fit the grip attach point of Bugeye® P/N 20B120334-1001? If so, the "irreversible" F-15/F-18 stick is possible.
Sort of happy I found your channel . I'm almost sure drugs would be a cheaper hobby 😂. I appreciate the hard work you put in Super Cap
Hobbies good, drugs bad. In the morning, your sim gear will still be there. Drugs, you won't and someone else will sell your hobby gear for 5% of the purchase price. Choose wisely my friend 😄
Just letting you know, this one came up in my notifications as well. I'm subbed and bell'd for All.
thxx
First, another great review guys. I just got mine last week, and your review is spot on. Still waiting on the springs and dampener set as they were back ordered but are on the way now. I am moving up from an x52 stick and must say this is a huge upgrade over it. I can finally fly all the gazelle in DCS! Still using my x52 throttle for now until I get a collective and can save up for a new throttle. In fact I created a makeshift 45 degree support to mount my x52 stick to an am using it as an intermediate collective until I can get one. So far so good. Happy flying!
Thank you Charles,
This is the kind of innovation we have needed for awhile now.
If only they'd come up with an FFB base... instant buy!
@@CakePrincessCelestia They hinted at that on FB, not sure if that will be an option for this base or not.
@@CakePrincessCelestia The F-16EX has a stick shaker option, coded to shake on events, like gear actuation, missile launch, bomb drop, high alpha maneuvers and landing, a couple more I can't think of atm. It won't pull/push the stick, but will give the similar tactile feedback.
@@michaelwmcdonald Michael, the base will have the Force Sensing insert option, which will mimic the small movements of the real F-16 stick base. Their F-16EX stick has a stick shaker option, that will provide modulated shaking intensity for different flight regimes, gear actuation, weapon launch/drop, landing, etc.
Vkb dos a friction brake in the Evo system for chopppers but the sound good as well
Just subscribed. I've been losing sleep over Virpil or Winwing. Your channel has convinced me to go Winwing. They have more options, features, good support. Love all your videos also. good stuff! keep it up please!
did you go winwing? I too am losing sleep over this haha
what did you do? I can' sleep!@@pontiaclemansgt
@@mayacakil I went Winwing! No regrets!
Do you use any extension? I heard with the extension it is problematic
@@pontiaclemansgt
I have the original Orion 1 base for the f16, only a few months old and the spring broke inside. They are sending me another one but wondering if you know what the specs are on the springs so I don't have to get them shipped all the way from China next time they break, thanks.
I do not as we just do the review, but it may be possible to find a youtube video on how to determine what the new spring is after its arrival. If you live in the USA, a good start would be to take the spring to a local Fastenal Hardware store. They are usually pretty pricey, but I've found their staff knowledgeable. Good luck,
@@wildbillkelso2083 thanks, I definitely want to have backups as It's been out of commission now going on two weeks.
Watching GR videos is expensive. It's cost me thousands of dollars so far. I'm not complaining btw. Just a statement of fact.
How does it compare to the super libra
Personally, I like it better. The stock centerless cams and it's ability to be changed quickly are two reason's why it will be my daily driver.
Even though i use a logitech 3d extreme pro this joystick looks like a good choice in the future
Since the 4 sides are symmetric can’t you just remove the spring from both axis, keep the cams installed, and install the dampers on the other 2 symmetric sides for dry clutch action for helicopter use? Can you also use spring and dampers at the same time? Great review. Been waiting for an assembly vid of the dampers. Winwing really should have included the 2x dampers with the base and only required the accessory kit for those that wanted different cam profiles and spring tension options. All in all looks like a winner here except for the boot. I may pick one up as I really want a dry clutch system and the extra MFSSB options in one base puts it a nod above the VKB base. Great work Winwing and looking forward to the MFSSB review GR! 👍
Thank you. We didn't try any of those combinations. We were focused at providing a first person look at the stated capabilities. I'm sure there are dozens of combinations that can be tried.
I've tried doing exactly this. You can absolutely have the dampeners on two of the unused sides. When in normal spring mode you can easily reduce the dampeners to zero tension. The problem is removing the spring/cams. To remove them is two screws (easy) but you need to stretch the spring to remove or install smoothly. With the default medium springs you can put some dimes in the spring coils and remove it okay but not smooth. With the strong springs (what I am using because I have the extension and the medium springs are just too light for it) even that is not enough. I wish this video showed the reinstallation of the cams so I could see how they did it and if it was smoother than the s**t show I managed.
@@oldmanfunk4916 Good to know. Thank you,
Great tech review
Thank you,
Is new Orion 2 base better than older SuperLibra base?
Personally, I like it better. The stock centerless cams and it's ability to be changed quickly are two reason's why it will be my daily driver.
@@wildbillkelso2083 thank you for the quick reply. Confirming you are saying you like the Orion 2 better, yes? I would like to ask a few more hardware questions. Will you please message me? I understand completely if the answer is no. Thanks for considering it.
@@vanguard9067 Yes, I like the Orion joystick 2-2 better for the above reasons. You may ask your questions here Vanguard, as it will give others who wonder the same things to see the exchange.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the info and invitation. I want to get into DCS and have checked out some hardware and I think made my choices what I am keeping. I have a couple of F-16 sticks and the WinWing F-16 throttle. Just getting into it, do I need rudder pedals now? What about some form of eye tracking hardware? Is is possible to do a Remote Desktop to configure the hardware? What about lessons? Thanks for your continuing guidance.
@@vanguard9067 You don't need rudder peddles to start, but they help immensely, and you will need them for helicopters and warbirds.There is Track Ir, and at least a couple lower cost versions available. I use Track Ir. Remote desktoping is probably unlikely as you must locally depress buttons, or cycle hotas controls to get them bound. Lessons can be expensive or not, depending if you have friends who will provide their time. I learned reading Chuck's guides for a general overview and hardware binding tutorials on TH-cam. Spend a lot of time reading, following the DCS module training missions, etc., before you venture into multiplayer. Full fidelity aircraft will take you at least 90 days to get competent with the stick/rudder work, and up to a year to become an expert in all of the modules systems. Most flying groups may have one or more people who provide free training days/times on their schedule. Get comfortable in single player missions. Try not to be "that guy" who buys a module, jumps on multiplayer and expects someone to show them everything. Putting your own sweat-equity in single player training will gain respect of others when you show up on the multiplayer world stage.
I put mine in the cart late Friday night but didn't pay yet. Saturday I went to pay and it was for pre-order only for the Orion 2 HOTAS Max - the F16ex was still available but not the throttle. Then while watching this video, I heard a ding in my email and its ready. Ordered now and on the way soon. I ordered two of the cams kit also.
Sounds like a win-win.
Thanks for showing where to find the dead zone setting.... I just made a ~20cm long extension for my Orion 1 and the dead zone was just killing me. While I hadn't even noticed it it's around 1mm in size on default stick length. But with the extension it was like 1-1,5 cm up there. I was searching all over the place and only a few people even mentioned that "you can change it" but never *where*. The software could really use some improvements in layout as that thing should be under calibration rather than under the Z axis config in the middle of the X/Y display - which you generally use the graph for instead...
Just got 1 of these.... It's a massive upgrade over my PS5 controller :)
Even though I haven't had a proper hotas for several years I did notice the deadzone and I am certainly gonna try it at 0 now. One more thing my f16ex stick spins on its axis unless I overtighten the collar to such an extent that the lock screw ends up in the front side of the stick and doesn't line up with the flattened portion at the rear. Anyone else have solutions for this?
You should not be concerned that the lock screw doesn't line up with the flat side of the stick. Lightly finger tightening the lock screw will not destroy the large threads and will keep it in place.
@@wildbillkelso2083 thanks
@@profitfpv8377 You are welcome.
It’s hard for me to make this choice now……. If I only flying fighter planes like F18,F16 F15E, would u suggest me to order the F16ex with MFSSB kit?
Hey cap a bit unrelated but I would love to see a new war-games series to see if the use and its allies could take the island of Hainan.I do believe that if war was to break out the USA would try and take the island. I loved watching the china vs Taiwan vid and I feel like you could reverse it now. You could use the Cyprus map as an analogue as you fit in the china vs Gawain vid. Much love cap!
Looks well made
Finally. A joystick that a helicopter pilot can feel happy with. Saving my pennys.
I think you'll be pretty pleased with it.
@@wildbillkelso2083 need to find some reviews from actual helicopter pilots. It’s always frustrated me that all joysticks have springs and no force feedback.
Mmm…. I can dream, of having the skill to need one of these 😎
You will. I know you will. 👍
You haven't heard? Winwing gear makes your 120s run faster and your wings jump higher. Oh, and each of your cannon rounds have 180 degree seeker heads. But seriously, aside from customer service, their stuff can almost be called 'fine craft'. Amazing stuff to be sure.
Out of the scope of this video, do you use some damper in your rudder ?
How does the Orion 2 stick compare to the Libra?
Personally, I like it better. The stock centerless cams and it's ability to be changed quickly are two reason's why it will be my daily driver.
Got one coming with extension and variable cams and springs. Also ordered the take off panel. Waiting a bit before pulling the trigger on the super taurus and combat ready panel.
@@36363ace You chose wisely 😄
My Dampening kit is showing up today, excited to see the difference for myself!
How did it go?
Do you know if the screw holes for attaching the Orion 2 to a mounting plate are in the same position as for the Orion v1, or require a different plate if using a table / chair mount etc. Thanks
The V1 and V2 have identical hole patterns Mark.
Yes, the mounting holes for the Orion 2 are in the same position as those on the Orion 1.
Thanks @Wild Bill Kelso & @Skilgannon 506
Le retour de force existe sur un hotas comme ici ? « suis français parle pas anglais « ;)
I was just watching you!!
Mine just arrived, changed to the helicopter set up right away and its awesome, so much easier to fly the Apache now, a really great bit of kit only let down by the extension part which seems like a weak link and they fact they went against the std coupling that other joysticks use like Wingwing/Thrustmaster basically locking out being able too use their extensions instead.
do helicopter rudder pedals work the same way as in they dont move back into position when you take your feet off?
And if so are there rudders for helicopters?
@@lithium25693 you can use normal rudder for helis. the only thing you really need to worry about is MAYBE getting a joystick with no reentering. this winwing orion2 though can have it removed which is good but IMO dont bother for a collective unless you wanna really get immersed.
After watching your videos, great btw, I ordered my f16ex with orion 2 base. First of all, it was a nightmare to set them up in dcs steam so I went to standalone. Then I realized that it is probably a hw issue, since only the axis x and y are recognized but none of the buttons. I have already contacted and waiting response from winwing. Any recommendations of disassembly and hw troubleshoot? Thanks in advance
As someone who wants to fly helicopters commercially but fly fixed wing as a hobby and for fun in sims this interoperability WingWing has been pushing is a God send!! Will be saving me a lot of money and space!! How will these do with a stick extension?
They work perfectly with the extension Matt. I use an extension with mine.
Thank-you for the extremely hard work it was, not just to test the properties of these items, but to provide a workable solution for these, this is worth more than gold. Once again, thank-you gentlemen for making our collective experience more 'mode and modus'.! Cheers from Canada!! DCS is BI Fox2;}
You are welcome R G.
I get a weird sticking when I switch to the dampers. Yours doesn’t seem to have that in the helo configuration.
Me too. It’s a fantastic setup, but running it springless with dampers only is NOT a smooth experience. Even with Nyogel & constant adjustments it’s clunky & sticky.
Regarding winwing products and thinking on reducing costs, and space.
Do you know if it is possible owning only one MFD unit instead of several, adding a screen to it, and alternating the views of all the instruments displayed within a single unit just by pressing a key?
Good review. Another reviewer mentioned that they thought the new rubber shroud was a bit of a backward step. What is the shipping time to the UK/Europe from time of order? Are we talking a couple of weeks or several months, and what is the actual total cost with shipping and tax? Thanks.
Thank you. Skil received his review kit in 7 days to Scotland. Mine arrived in central US a couple days later. You'll have to look up the cost as there's several choices. The shipping + any tax/VAT will depend on your location. www.wwsimstore.com
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the feedback.
@@doifeellucky You are welcome
Hi my orion 2 thruster base take 5 days really impressed . To London area.
@@michalmatuska39 Thanks. Any idea of total cost, shipping and tax etc?
Will the Orion F-16 throttle work with the Thrustmaster Warthog Stick?
You ask about the Orion throttle, mating with a Warthog Joystick? No, and I am unaware of any available manufactured adapter. If you mean mating a F-16EX throttle handle to a Warthog Throttle, the answer, again would be no, and I'm not aware of any available manufactured adapter.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks. Yes, I wanted to connect an Orion throttle instead of a Warthog throttle. And when it comes to modifications, since the 90s I have been making my own rudders or currently I am reworking the factory ones for my own needs. I recently converted one Worthog throttle to a helicopter lever. It's fun :)
Would have been great if WinWing would have given me a option/heads-up when ordering my F-16 stick & base a month prior to release of the J2-2 :/ WinWing seriously needs PR and ordering changes personnel ???
Understandable, but unfortunately, from what I hear, they've been at the mercy of component supply shortages and lockdowns. I'm only guessing, but they may not be in control of firm release dates until component availability becomes stable.
Have you received your stick and base yet?
I know how you feel. I was fairly irate about my entire buying process. Prior to ordering the Libra I went through the entire 'ask a question process' on the 'English' website to get an idea if the Libra, and it's springs, could be customized for a 'f-16 'feel'. The only thing I receive is an e-mail in Mandarin. Don't know why, my question was not in Chinese, and on the English site nonetheless. Well, I don't have a HOTAS, and am a seasoned simmer returning after years away from sims, so I decide to buy the Libra and the F-18 stick. Then, and I'm not joking, a day after my order was sent (two days after my question) they release a new website and video introducing their new joystick base which has exactly what my question asked. I really feel like I was kicked in the family jewels. For me, that was already 5 strikes against Winwing and I hadn't even received my order.
Along with my Stick/base order, I also ordered the Orion 2 F-16 throttle and sent them a question when I was unsure on how to put a couple of the final pieces together. This time I didn't get an answer in Mandarin, I got no response at all. Luckily I found a video someone made (not GRs throttle video) that helped me through it. Needless to say, their customer service needs some serious work to match the quality of their HOTAS. One thing is for sure however, and that is that I will not buy anything else from Winwing until I see better instructional videos (as manuals do not exist), and hear from others that a customer service does exit.
Also, thanks to GR for the effort in this video, however, I'm not sure if your intention in these Winwing product videos are instructional or meant as quick 'get to know' videos. If instructional, you could, for example, at least address what to do if the tweezers do come loose and the nut does come out. To be fair, part of my critique of these (instructional?) videos also comes from the F-16 throttle/SimApp pro video. Instructional videos (if that's what these are meant to be) without speaking is like going to school to learn History from a book with drawings only. Either way, from this video or the video at the Winwing site, there is no way I would take apart something I spent $200-300+ on without complete instructions. Feel free to pass this on to Winwing, they don't seem to read my questions for some reason.
@@vvcv__00 Bad customer service? Seems to be the case for most Chinese companies.
@@vvcv__00 Try getting CS from Starlink, a US company. It's non-existent. However, I also never needed it but many complain about it. CS for most companies is trash now a days. I have questions out to other sim companies and never heard back, so WinWing is not alone in poor CS. I ordered a HOTAS on eBay, paid and was told it shipped. It never shipped, was canceled and a refund a few days later. Then relisted for $100 more, and the seller had 4k plus positive rep. The seller never responded to a question I had on another item, nor did he communicate with me about the cancellation. Then their is Frontier Internet... well you get the point.
Thanks for the review. The dampener looks to be plastic, is this the case? I wonder how much endurance this component would have, and spending $50 for a replacement set of [springs, cams, dampeners] just to replace the dampener wouldn't be ideal.
Is it possible to use the dampener in combination with the spring/ cams on the other side, for when flying a plane, to dampen after return to center from the springs, similar to the dry clutch mechanism on the VKB gunfighter MK III?
Put another way, at the start of the review you detail 3 setups:
1. Spring / cam, either one sided or both sided setup on each axis.
2. Dampener only, helicopter
3. Force feedback - F16
is there a 4th setup possible of a. spring / cam one side b. Dampener other side, with a & b both on a single axis. I believe this would be comparable to the supra libra.
A comparison between supra libra and Orion 2 bases would be a great addition. Or a comparison video to all competitors, in house and out of house - Supra Libra, VKB GF MK3, Virpil. Thanks.
Thank you Mark, you are free to experiment with any combination you like, including a 4th setup combo of dampers/cams. The force sensing module would be used without dampers/cams as it needs to feel your pitch and roll input pressure. The force feedback or internal stick shaker was introduced in the original F-16EX stick. I now see they offer the stick with and without the shaker. We will hold off on the Libra, J2-2 comparison, as I'm guessing there there may be Libre cam choices in the near future. I can say the Orion J2-2 beats the Virpil CM2 stick base for smoothness. I own one as well. I don't own any VKB gear so I don't have any insights for it. Hope that helps,
@@wildbillkelso2083 Thanks for the reply and info. For the third option I meant force sensing rather than force feedback, thanks for clarifying. Being able to have the damper & cam on a single axis is what I'm looking for. Though again my feedback for WinWing would be to have replacement plastic(?) dampener components as a separate stock item incase it fails and need replacing, independent from the cams or springs, $50 pack. 👍
@@Mk_IX_Hawk5690 You're welcome Mark, the factory reads all the comments, so I'm sure they're taking notes from viewer comments. Take care,
👍
@@Mk_IX_Hawk5690 A better design choice for WW is to go with a metal clamp and have the wear piece (teflon/polymer) as an insert to fit around the drum inside the clamp.
Is it possible to mount in a virpil mount with the VPC Desk Mount V2/V3/V4 adapter?
I have no idea Diego, you should contact the factory for that answer.
I just got mine in a few days ago, i got the bundle with a F/A 18 throttle + F16EX stick and i am blown away coming from an X52
Are the grim reapers going to be making a mirage f1 tutorial’s
I thought he didn't plan to, but I see he is working on some right now.
They just posted on FB $229.95 for the Orion2 F-16EX. Price still shows $279.90 but maybe you need to add to the card.
Thanks Michael, but we post one time, the prices that show on their store for the date we view them. For any changes, you probably should go with the store price.
@@wildbillkelso2083 Just letting people know of the sale that just popped up, may be gone tomorrow.
@@michaelwmcdonald Ahh, understand. 👍
The price of $229.95 posted on their Facebook page on July 25th "Happy Summer Holidays! 229.95USD For Both Grip And Base" is the "Orion2 F-16 Viper Joystick Combo(No Shake Kits)", the EX version reviewed here is the "Orion2 F-16EX Viper Joystick Combo(With Shake Kits)", the "shake kit" is the $50 cost difference, which includes the stick rumble function & extra hat/analog buttons attachment.
Hi like to ask what you prefer orion 2 or Taurus?
The Taurus throttle has a longer throw and provides superior speed adjustments, so it is my preference. The new Orion 2 stick base reviewed here is my new preference over the Libre due to its capabilities.
@@wildbillkelso2083 thank you for quick response
@@michalmatuska39 You are welcome.
+GrimReapersAtomic *WinWinG still has a way to go to approach the Virtual Engineering Bureau and VirPil Controls in terms of zero dead zone.* Will the upcoming MFSSB fit the grip attach point of Bugeye® P/N 20B120334-1001? If so, the "irreversible" F-15/F-18 stick is possible.
I have no idea. You can always send a request to Winwing.
I am extremely happy with my Orion 2 F18 HOTAS. The level of quality is absolutely stellar, and has made learning DCS a pure joy.
Yep, good gear reduces the spaz-factor and helps reinforce the time you spend perfecting your skills.