Winwing Orion 2 F-16EX Stick, Spring/Cam and FSSB Review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- This is our Winwing Orion 2 F-16EX Stick, Spring/Cam and FSSB Review!
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Rig specs:
Intel i9 12900K
ASUS PRIME Motherboard
32GB DDR 4 3600 RAM
2x 1TB M.2 NVME SSD
1TB SATA SSD
1TB HDD for storage
GeForce RTX 3080
NZXT i510 case (modified)
Samsung Odyssey HMD, Oculus Quest 2, HP Reverb G2
VKB Gunfighter Mk.III with Kosmosima Right Premium and MCGU
Winwing Orion 2 Gimbal with F-16 Stick with Spring+Shake and FSSB
VKB Gladiator NXT Left Premium (Omni)
Xbox Controller (for TEDAC)
Winwing Orion Throttle
Winwing Orion 2 Throttle with F-16 grip
VKB T-Rudder Pedals
Foxx Mounts x2
MonsterTech long mount
I love how you do not shy away from direct comparisons with other manufacturers (this is something that reviewers who receive their gear as gifts from companies avoid like the plague). And also 100% agreed on greasing the clutches.
Good review. I like how you compare the package between brands. I also like the additional tips.
You mentioned the damping grease. I cannot easily get hold of naogen 767a, but I have a variety of greases for my mountainbike. Would those do as well?
I also heard other reviews talk about tightening the damper screws, and making sure they’re not too tight to prevent stiction. What’s your take on that?
Also, which cam set do you recommend for f-16 use? You mentioned the standard one has no Center resulting in a sloppy feel in the Center region. Which cam set is best to eliminate/minimise that sloppiness?
Finally, do the cams also need damping grease?
It really has to be damping grease, not just any grease will do. Damping grease assists in the damping action while still being a lubricant. There are a variety of damping grease out there. Nyogel 767a can be had quite easily from Amazon.
I found that there was no setting without grease that provided any feel of damping without creating stiction. I used the SC-01 cams. Some prefer the no center cams. I found them too feel extremely sloppy.
do you know of a 3rd party that sells compatible cams and springs?
I don't think there is one
13:50 How tight did you need to fasten these screws? Mine are Long side of the allen key tight, i wonder if i should tighten them more with the short side? I'm worried about potentially damaging the bearings.
Not likely going to damage the bearings, they are steel. I usually did swap to the long lever on those screws and ensured that the screws were snug.
Obviously use your best judgement.
Great video man, was looking into this and this helped a lot
Fantastic video! Just got Orion2 HOTAS and will be exclusively F/A-18. I was really surprised at the "floppy-ness" of the default cams/springs. I'm about to order the accessory pack, and would like to use the extension as well (but unsure if height will work). Can you advise what your recommendation is for cam/spring setup JUST for jets- and would it be different with the extension? I realize everyone is different but tbh I'd like to start with what you recommend and go from there. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to tinker and try a ton of options. Thanks!
@@flyhoovers my favorite cam is the SC-1 I believe. I used a 100mm extension, I installed the dampers and greased them. Just though damping to smooth things out but the stick should regain center.
@@FalconsLedge Thanks! So just SC-1 on roll/pitch axis and dampers on the opposite sides....no need for a 2nd cam/damper kit? Also, I'm using desk mounts until I can get an simpit chair and just realized I'm likely NOT going to be able to use the extension until that time. Does the standard stick, without the extension, change anything?
@@flyhoovers in did not find a need for the second spring/cam, I wanted damping more
@@flyhoovers just the extension ;)
Tks for the video, awesome and very complete review. Not sure if I missed it, but can you confirm what % of the force on each axis is your best setting? (% over the 6Kg)
Also, how many lateral spring plates did you end up finding the best experience with(one or two)?
I use the 40% setting right now. I also use two springs on the Y axis and 1 spring on the X.
I was very disappointed to see that there were no included dampers or cams with the stock base. The stock feel is purposely bad, in my opinion. That's how Winwing gets you.. expect to spend an extra $50 ($70 with shipping to US) to get the stick feeling good. Good quality base and stick but buyer beware.
Virpil makes the best bases, but boy do I love the WW F16EX grip
Man, where did you get the MFSSB? I purchased an Orion 2 base without it, planning on saving and buying it later separately, only to find out that Winwing doesn't sell it separately anymore. I'm 100% positive they used to, when I bought the base. Now I'm dying to get my hands on one of those, but they simply won't sell it separately!
As I mentioned in the video, I purchased it on the secondary market used. They don't sell it separately because it can be a bit irritating to configure properly. Though after some practice its really easy now.
As it turns out you only want to buy one set if you plan on using the dampeners as you cant fit the additional cams with the dampeners installed
Yeah the second set is if you want to use 2 sets of dampers or 2 sets of the same cams/springs
Hey mate great vid. My cam/damper pack is in the mail. BTW are you using the VKB NXT as a collective??
Yes I am! It works great as a collective!
@@FalconsLedgesweet! Vid idea right there. Collectives are ridiculously expensive compared to throttles. How is it mounted? Are you using the Omni throttle? (It doesn’t look like you are). How do you have the clutches set up? I feel like this stick would be good as a collective with an extension, but VKB don’t make extensions for the NXT except for the Omni, which can’t turn it 90° (Z axis).
@@ratsac I mount it at an angle. I have the Omni but I don't use it for this setup. I have the x locked out, and no spring on the y. I have the clutches tightened until it won't move on it's own. There are 3D printed extensions, but it may over power the clutches.
I had the MFSSB for probably 3-4 months and came to about the same conclusions. Changed amount of flat springs and all sorts of settings to see if I could get it close to the real SSC. Eventually I just bit the bullet and bought RealSimulators FSSB-R3 Lightning MKII Ultra and sold the WW MFSSB. The RealsSimulator Base and Stick is in a completely different league and right out of the box it performed way better. It feels just like the real SSC except the max force required is less.
I totally get what WW was trying to do, but accomplishing it is something totally different.
@@FalconsLedgeyes, the 2 main areas that really sets the Realsimulator SSC apart from WWs solution is:
1. The fine movement around center position. It’s so enjoyable to fly close formation and Air Refuel with the RS vs the WW.
2. The transition between displaced and force on the WW. Very hard to get a smooth transition. I came close by adding springs and adjusting settings, but sometime would have issues during g-loaded tracking gun shots. The WW graph output was however very helpful while adjusting various settings to smoothen the transition.
Granted the Realsimulator SSC is also twice the price, so it better be ahead by a fair margin.
Hey mate, I know I’m a few months late, just got the MFSSB as I want to learn the F16, and I’m searching for settings to try and dial it in. I was just wondering if you ever did that short on the settings and what did you dial yours into. I got use the duel mode, and set at 30%. But I missed what you set the force too. Did you leave it at 100 or change it?
I’ve tried reducing the force settings but found she hardly rolls at all then, unless I put a huge amount of force in it and then it ends up moving my Mount so not ideal. Just trying to sort that out.
The settings I landed on were as follows:
1 spring on X axis 2 on Y axis 40% mix 100 force
10% curve in DCS
I HIGHLY recommend an extremely rigid mount. I am using a monster mount. None of the cheap mounts will do, they just aren't rigid enough. I'd say predator is the minimum. Mounts will flex when using MFSSB unless you get something beefy.
My software had issues making shorts, so I never got it out, I sold my winwing hardware to review new stuff, so sadly that short probably isn't going to come. I do miss the F-16 grip, it is very nice.
In the end, I preferred the spring/cam to the MFSSB, but I did become proficient with the MFSSB.
Great review mate. Think about to order a mfssb for my f16 pit. Now i read here some ffb issues. I am not sure right now what i do. Simple question would you buy the mfssb again?
Best greets
Using one right now. If you are an f-16 main, they are great
@@FalconsLedge i appreciate your answere. So i go and order one 🙈😇
Hi, should you apply grease on the regular spring system? It just arrive and it's dry.
No need to apply grease on springs and cams, only the damper of so equipped.
@@FalconsLedge thank you very much for the super fast reply and help. Awesome channel!
Fly high, fly safe
Excellent video! Thank you. What configuration do you think is best for helicopter operations?
Using also with the Winwing extension. Searched everywhere not so easy to find information about it.
If you only fly help, then the dampers only is a great way to go. If you fly other stuff, the the dual spring/cam with extension is probably best
Thank you!
Wonderful video! ~ Orko
Do you have the f18 throttle? If so are the hats a similar feeling cause I really like the switch feeling on my f18 grip.
I have the Orion 1 and Orion 2 throttle. I have F-16, and F18 grips. I'll get the f-15 grip before the throttle review comes out
@@FalconsLedge How do the 5 way switches on the F16 joystick compare to the f18 throttle?
@@ls1423ls they feel like they are the same unit
Thanks!
Thank you!
All I hear is problems, problems… set aside they don’t provide any components by default.. once again they proved what an iffy company winwing is…
I have several Winwing devices and they have always been good. I have two throttles and a set of pedals right now, and I very much like them
@@FalconsLedge Thanks for the reply, btw my critiques are towards the company obviously, not you :) for example they keep listing the z-axis module on their site for years so customer will buy the orion2 with the idea that it will come out, what a crappy move of them, don't you think?
@@SaiyanJin85 certainly! No offense taken. I think WW takes both some deserved flak, and and underserved flak.
@@SaiyanJin85 they are redesigning the z axis adapter I believe. Honestly pedals are better anyway
@@FalconsLedge I believe too that pedals are better but that's not why I'm crapping on them, first of all what are they redesigning for 2-3 years now? it's not rocket science :D and secondly if you don't have it then unlisted from your store, it is misleading the customers and make them buy the combo package with the hope that soon they can buy z-axis module which is false
You don’t need to pay 60 dollars CDN for a 50 gram tube of boutique synthetic grease for the internals.
Just buy a tube of Permatex general purpose synthetic grease. It costs less than 15CDN and does the same job. You’re not lubricating load bearing components to the tune of hundreds of pounds under extreme heat. You’re lubricating a few bearings and springs that are used very lightly compared to the loads they can really take. DON’T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON NYOGEL…. It’s a ripoff and basically just clear generic synthetic grease.
For dampers it is better to get 767, it is damping grease, not just lubricant. I didn't spend that much either.
@@FalconsLedge I doubt it's better and I know it's not necessary, trust me. I've been a bike tech for years and in all the shops I've worked in we use regular high temp high pressure axle grease (the generic green type) and it's no different than the boutique Bicycle bearing grease we sell on the floor that's triple the price for a small tub. You don't need that type of grease. The parts they lubricate will NEVER reach the temperature threshold nor will it sustain any type of load that would make Nyogel a "must have" for this purpose. You're misleading people into spending money they don't need to spend. 10 bucks covers the Permatex.
@pabloottawa again, its not about lubrication. Believe what you want. I'm not misleading anyone. 767a is the best solution for this particular scenario. I have a tub of plastic safe grease, as I too have been doing mechanic work for a few decades. Maybe ill make a video specifically showing you why you are mistaken. I've also been working with joysticks for decades you see, and I'm afraid you have misunderstood the purpose of the grease here.
Tell me……. How much heat and pressure can automotive axle grease withstand???? And if you want dampening, how thick is automotive axle grease?
That’s all there is to it. Sorry but you’re mistaken.
@@pabloottawa 1. Has nothing to do with heat or pressure. 2. Axle grease has very little damping power compared to purpose made damping grease.
Have a nice day.
The best honest review ever, I got EX back to 8 or 10 monthd ago, im not happy at all. The vibertation motor doesnt work even with default settings in DCS. I would go for Virpil if I knew how silly this was
Are you not happy just because of the vibration or other things as well?
Even with the minor issues I ran into, I still think they are a great value. I'm eager to compare the winwing solution to the VKB HOTAS in the next couple months
@@ls1423ls no, it doesnt feel right, i have my Warthog over 3 years, it feels solid, i changed it to WW F16EX due to teo reasons: the gimbal of the stick in WH is old and self centered, which causes precision correction during dogfight or harsh manuver a little bit difficult.
2. I wanted more buttons and customizable solution which WW offers.
My problem with WW is the stick, as @FalconsLedge mentioned it feels loosy, when it is centered the very slow correction without self centered CAMs is not right. I tried the stong sprint as well it is too strong, after 2 hours of flying and AAR felt exhausted in my wrest. And if I choose the medium sprint, it feels soft and loosy!
I dont use force feedback module as I fly with different AC in DCS
@@ls1423ls looking forward to that. Thanks
@@manizaeim I went back recently and re-tried the NC cams. HATE them. They feel awful, sloppy, terrible. Put the SC cam back in. I've been swapping back and forth between MFSSB and Cams, I just can't tell which one I prefer, even on the Viper.
Really like your reviews! I'm still going through it--as a fan of warbrd-style dual cams due to no center feeling, I never knew that pre-tensioners can fight the centre sloppiness. I will test this on CM3 to compare.
Pretensioners can help too some degree, but they don't eliminate it, stronger center cams help too, but the stronger center you get you start having more of a center detent, which makes tiny adjustments harder
The cm3 has pretensioners, but it's also not dual cam. The cm3 is single cam.
@@FalconsLedge yep I'm aware of that, but perhaps my fetish on perfect symmetry of the dual cam system be overturned by this new revelation about pre-tensioning. about to test and feed back. :D
@@Spelljammer1 the new warbrd-D has dual cams and pretensioners. But it also has clutches, which I won't go without
@@FalconsLedge are you sure about the pretensioners on the Warbrd-D? As far as I can see it has just the same plain spring connecting the two cams as any other dual cam system, unreachable from the outside.
The manual highlights just the clutch adjustment screws.
Would you apply grease to the cam rollers?
No, that should not be necessary
@@FalconsLedge Thanks, I got some Nyogel for my rudder pedals, was wondering if it would be useful at all to use it on the joystick or throttle?
@@algroyp3r for the dampers on both yes, for the cam rollers no
@@FalconsLedge Thanks! Does the throttle come with dampers build-in by default?
@algroyp3r yep it does