Nope i dont think so. You still can ride faster but have to rely on your muscels. On the other hand you get a well sprung, comfortable bike that you can ride effortless with 25km/h. To be honest, there are just way to many idiots out there, no matter if on bike or in a car. Until there is a good bicycle infrasturcture from my perspective and what i see daily its too dangarous
Not for the current infrastructure. As long as people vote for "more car lanes", "more car parking" and other idiocracies, it'll have to stay at 25 km/h. When the cities are (finally) rebuilt, 30km/h should be fine. Barcelona and Paris are on a good way, Amsterdam is way ahead and ze germans ... well, the germans are "trying". As are the Italians. edit: every major city should do what Paris did: set the max. speed for automobiles to 30 km/h :) That's a better start than to rise e-Bike speeds. edit 2: you said it yourself there: make them the same speed as automobile traffic :) make cars go 30 km/h and slower and everyone is happy (it improves traffic flow for cars immensely)
yeah because i think it would be better if ebikers could use the road like any other motorized vehicle and that's just not something people will do if the speed limiter is too slow. if that's not possible then i think they should atleast make it easier to get non type approval fast ebikes registered. there are so many bikes that are basically the same as speed pedelecs but only cost like half of what speed pedelecs cost but they just lack type approval. like they have the same brakes and tires and even motors.
@@oplkfdhgkWhy wouldn't this just come under the current rules about scooters? The reason they are limited to 25kph is because anyone can get on one and ride it with zero bike handling skills or effort. Why would anyone ride a scooter if you could get a faster e-bike and not have to have any sort of CBT, licence, insurance etc.
I'm an eBike commuter in the US who rides 70% on seperated bike/pedestrian paths and 30% on fairly quiet streets. My bike is limited to 20mph and I feel like any faster would feel unsafe for pedestrians on the paths. I'm not quite keeping up with traffic, but the speed with which I can pull away from junctions at a complete stop is the thing that keeps me safest I think.
@@gcn I don't think I would. I think the only time I've felt limited is when stuck at 9mph getting up a steep hill, not when cruising on an empty street at 20mph :)
Thanks for posting this and I completely agree. Rude cyclists are already an issue on the bike routes here in the Denver area. Rude e bike riders make it even worse, as many of these people didn't 'come up through the ranks' in cycling, as it were. They plough along as if they are driving a car down a path that includes slower cyclists, joggers, walkers, families with children and dogs, etc. If you want a fast electric vehicle with two wheels, get yourself an electric motorcycle and drive it where it belongs: on the street.
From Chicago, 20mph is definitely the sweet spot. I think the speed of roads here are faster, even in the city. 20mph is fast enough to travel barely with traffic, but it feels safer. Though on rainy and snowy days people should be smart enough to lower their speed to 15mph. Faster than 20 in the city is not necessary with all the traffic junctions. Argument for faster bikes are mostly for more suburban areas in the US where people are commuting long distances and wear motorcycle protection. My gripe for safety is any bikes not following traffic rules.
Agreed. I am in Australia with 25km/h (15mph) legal limits, but plenty of illegal bikes/scooters on the shared pedestrian pathway going 50+ km/h (30+ mph) making it dangerous for those other users. I'd be happy to let others go higher, with a registration & licence, having to be on the road like all other motor bikes.
Given rise in 20 mph zones and given cyclists are meant to ride and behave as traffic imho I don’t think a limit of 20 mph is unreasonable. Although in reality the whole conversation is somewhat a farce given the volume of e-bikes on the road with throttles and no speed restrictions. I’ve seen so many e-bikes with no peddle movement and traveling at around 40 mph As an e-bike rider I use mine to get out due to health issues as I’m no longer able to ride a non assist bike. The illegal e-bikes give those of us who abide by the laws a bad reputation My e-bike is a huge help to getting back out, mine isn’t derestricted but I can see why people do it. I think no limit is silly. 20 mph I think would be a reasonable balance Although there’s a whole other view regarding power restriction versus speed restriction
Great reply. Glad to hear you are getting so much out of your e bike. My wife would say just the same. We have been able to do some amazing rides in the mountains all over the world since she got her e bike 7 years ago.
This power issue is what I was thinking too. There's limits on both, for us here at least. I'm friends with a few local bike shop owners, and we (along with some pro-cycling politicians) are trying to get our local power restrictions uped, at least. (even for big cargo bikes we have quite strict (too low) limits.
I started to see those modified ebikes even in Tokyo. I was on a long uphills avenue at around 4% and at around 30kmh (I was definitely tapping power from my legs) and saw a guy on his smartphone on a chinese ebike with fat tires zipping through at easy 35-40kmh with almost no pedaling. The irony is that in Japan, a 50cc moped is limited to 30kmh officially and you need a helmet, an insurance, a number plate. and you had to take a small practice course. That guy was over this, without helmet, probably no insurance. In Japan bikes have the right to be on the sidewalks and I definitely dont want to see power ebikes speeding at 30kmh on it. Too much power in the hands of people who don't know how to ride is dangerous. But at the same time I agree that ebikes could be the perfect short-medium commuting personal vehicles of the future, this could help in less dense suburbs or the countryside and there 24-25kmh is a bit too slow. I think legislation and ebikes categories may have to be reworked on.
20 MPH on e-bikes is good to match all the 20 MPH limits in cities now, problem is cyclists with no training and even 20MPH can cause issues. I'm sure there's a few cyclists will make bad overtake judgements in narrow cycle lanes but for the road with cars would be good IMO.
I agree that for ebikes on the road among motor vehicles a 30Km/h limit would reduce friction with the rest of the traffic. However, when the same ebike is sharing a trail with pedestrians, a 20Km/h limit seems much more prudent. The trouble is enforcement: nobody is actually going to police the speed of bicycles on paths. I don't have a solution.
I think the risk with faster e-bikes is the one they pose to pedestrians. Bicycles exists in middle space between pedestrians and road traffic with neither area really being very well suited. I don't know for sure how much a difference an extra 5kmh on a shared path would be in terms of avoiding or crashing into a pedestrian, but from what I've experienced so far e-bike riders stand a far higher risk of injuring a pedestrian than an ordinary cyclist would both in terms of the mass of the vehicle and the speed at which they are regularly moving through crowded paths. My counter suggestion to the idea of increasing the speed of e-bikes is that electric scooters exists, if you want to go faster then you get to buy a different vehicle and deal with the extra requirements that comes with it. Leave the e-bikes a weaker and slower option that any one can have access to.
For me it's simple. If you don't need to pedal, then it's not a bike, it's a motorcycle. For me, e-bikes should be a regular bike with some assistance in your pedaling, which would be great in climbing, specially for people that use them to commute, but you are still doing some form of exercise. The assistance should be less and less the more you approach the limit, so you can still go faster if you pedal hard, but no assistance. The first e-bikes were like this, but now you see a lot of e-bikes where it's just a bike with an electric motor and a battery and people will never pedal out of those things
I bike commute to work on a daily basis and yes, it's with a regular bike aka a me-bike (meaning the power is generate by me.) What's the point of riding a bike if you don't have to put any work into it?!?!
@@IowaNinersFan you might want to do some actual research. It's been shown in study after study that e-bike riders get more exercise than Amish bike riders.
Great point! They can be very expensive. That said, in the long run you often save money against a car. Did you see that Si has ditched the car for the Ebike 👉 th-cam.com/video/S00r7WVbz5k/w-d-xo.html
Storage is definitely a part of it. I live in an upstairs apartment with a long flight of stairs. If my neighbour wasn't letting me store my bike in their garage, I don't know what I'd do.
Too pricey? That's not an argument, that's just a lame excuse for not cycling. People easily spend thousands of euro's on a car, but expect to get a bike for almost nothing.
@@permanenceinchange2326 Best comment ever. Not realising in the longrun you will save thousands of pounds. It's the SAME attitude even with non electric bikes. They want a £50 bike. That's as heavy as a tank and will kill you on steep grades. And anyone who spends a couple of thousand on a quality bike is a fool according to them. Not realising that when you have a super efficient quality bike. You will ride it alot more and in turn SAVE alot of money. I've saved over £25,000 on travel in the last 7 years on my amazing Tern verge X11.
I think people are confused here by the term speed limit for e bikes. The 15.5mph limit is the point at which the electrical assistance stops, there’s nothing (except hills in my case) which restricts you from peddling faster.
My wife has an eBike that's limited to 28mph (class 3. no throttle at all). It more or less replaces her car through the summer. If it were limited to 25kph (15mph) I don't think we would have even looked at it and she would still be driving her car through the summer. At least in the US, unless and until cycling infrastructure gets more ubiquitous, eBikes need to keep up with city traffic, which is normally between 20mph and 35mph in my area. Also, 25kph is right around the speed I normally go on my 2012 Dahon D7.
Details on your cougar story here: Hi everyone, This is Kendal and Alexa. You may know us as Keri's two daughters-Alexa the pilot and Kendal the baker. Many of you would describe our mom as the sweetest, kindest, humblest, and most selfless person you will ever get the pleasure to know. Unfortunately we did not get to know our grandmother, her mom Marilyn. But she is described as an angel on earth. She absolutely took after her in that way! Apart from her kind demeanor and sweet smile, she is one badass lady. She has become a pillar in the women's biking community. There is not an hour that goes by where she was not talking, thinking or planning her next big adventure. Her calendar is booked solid with every moment centered around the next thrilling ride. On the afternoon of Saturday February 17th, our world stood still. Our indestructible mom was injured in a way we would have never imagined. She was riding her bike through a very popular mountain biking trail near North Bend with 4 other ladies. Mom was in the middle of the train with 2 riders ahead and 2 riders behind her when she was tackled off her bike by a 75 lb cougar. The cougar latched onto her lower jaw. Her courageous friends quickly jumped to action to save her life as well as their own. Ultimately it was their quick thinking that saved her life. They spent the next 15 minutes trying to fight the animal off of her. Finally he released and the ladies were able to get the animal away from her and had to hold him down with a bike to keep him from continuing the attack. They held him down for about 30 minutes until officers arrived at the scene. Because of these heroic women, we still have our mom with us. We are forever grateful to them all. As far as her injuries, she has experienced severe trauma to her face as well as permanent nerve damage. It will be a lifelong battle and a long road ahead to recovery. The funds of this page will go directly towards all expenses as a result of her injury. Bills, living expenses, and anything else she may need. Thank you so much for all the positive thoughts and prayers! Her mindset is positive and she hopes to get back on her bike one day soon! www.gofundme.com/f/keris-ride-to-recovery
I think 30kph would be more convenient for commuting and not being a hassle on the road. BUT: if just about anyone can jump on one of those and go fast with very limited effort, 25kph are already potentially dangerous to the rider and everyone around them, especially on bike lanes or in spaces shared with pedestrians. Most e-bikers are not as skilled as the average GCN viewer.
Great points, the weight of Ebikes has big effect on the handling. What do you think can be done to make Ebikes safer? Perhaps looking to infrastructure could be the way to go 👀
@@gcn The same way we do with motorcycles. Power classes and licenses to access them. Keep a 25kph limited entry level class that does not require license (maybe even lower it to 20?), provide a 30 kph class that does require some sort of license. Maybe also ban them from shared paths and sidewalks. After that you can maybe advance the license to a proper motor cycle license.
I'm not sure amount of effort necessarily correlates with skill, handling and road sense: being able to go at 20mph with little effort and little skill is as bad as 20mph with a lot of effort and little skill. Just because somebody has a decent power output doesn't mean their safe on a bike. Also a lot of ebike user are regular cyclists either on their ebikes only or using the ebike for some trips (like a commute) and regular bikes for other outings. Just like any other cyclist, the more they use them the better they get.
When I'm on busier roads I crave more speed. But on quiet roads it's fast enough, and on shared paths it's too fast. Consequently I tend to choose the quieter routes and dedicated cycle paths. And that results in a more relaxed ride
do you think the more speed on a busy road is to be able to keep up with the flow of traffic? or to get off of the stretch of road as quick as possible?
The problem is not that ebikes are too slow. The problem is that cars in the urban areas are allowed to go to fast. I'm sure faster ebike injuries are on the rise, but that data is irrelevant when not compared with auto related injuries. I think we spend way too much time trying to make bikes and pedestrians safer without addressing the root cause of danger: priority on automobile through put in built up areas.
There are two opposing costs to e-bike assistance limits. 1. more injuries from higher speeds. 2. fewer users from lower speeds (imagine if the limit was 5kph). We usually focus on the first and neglect the 2nd, probably leading to somewhat too slow limits. Also, where there are laws allowing higher limits when various conditions are met, this also neglects a cost of fewer users due to the cost of these conditions. Therefore, if higher limits are allowed under certain conditions, these conditions should be about proficiency not paying registration or insurance. All this assumes e-bikes are good because they reduce congestion, increase health and wellbeing (from increased exercise), and cause less harm to the environment.
Speed limits here in Germany start with walking speed ("Spielstrasse" - play street). There are zones where you are allowed to drive at 10 or 20 kph max. Therefore I do not share the opinion that 20 mph is the lowest speed limit in the EU countries. It makes my hair stand up when I imagine all those elderly riders (of course not all of them) on e-bikes would be travelling any faster than 25 kph. They are dangerous as hell even at 25 kph especially if they never had a driving license and don't know the basic rules. Therefore 25 kph is fast enough. It keeps our streets safe.
Also there already is a 45kph e-bike. You need a licenseplate for that one and you must ride on the road. Believe me... that is no fun. Faster but you are always surrounded by cars and trucks who WILL overtake you. 25kph is really enough.
You seem to think that the ebike assisted speed limit is something that ebike riders cant go below. Like any cyclist, ebike riders can ride slower where appropriate.
I have a s-pedelec going 45 km/h. In the first year I had a lot of bad situations and some crashes. The car drivers license is enough to ride the s-pedelec, but it does not prepare you. Going at 45 km/h means, you have to slow down much more in curves, especially in rainy conditions. I learned that the hard way. Your breaking distance is much longer, again worse on wet surfaces. but most importantly: car and truck drivers underestimate your speed badly and the don't like you being on the road - and they show it to you.
I agree with Dan. I live in Washington, DC. The vast majority of cyclists are youths who completely ignore the rules of traffic: they run every red light and stop sign they can, they never yield right-of-way unless they see danger to themselves. I’d be fine with making e-bikes faster if owning and operating them required a driver’s license, registration, a license plate, and reliable punishment for disobeying traffic laws.
I would love to invite you to NYC to experience the Wild West of e-bikes. Our bike lanes are full of high-speed e-bikes-from the large and unwieldy pedal-assist Citibikes which go up to 18mph/28kph, to faster throttle bikes & mopeds which are illegal but completely unregulated. I realize you are not advocating for throttle bikes but they do give a taste of what higher-speed bikes feel like. ALL these bikes have drastically altered the tempo and mood of our bike lanes to something much more frenetic. Being passed at 18mph by an unskilled rider on a 70lb tank feels VERY different from being passed at 18mph by a roadie on a carbon bike or a messenger on a fixie. I understand the desire to get a little more boost out of your pedal-assist, especially on country roads where you’re only competing for space with cars, but as an exhausted city rider all I can say is be careful what you wish for!
In the USA there are e-powered bikes that go faster than 20mph on just the throttle - they are classed as motor vehicles and should be licensed and insured, and require a motorbike licence to ride, but a lot of people are flying under the radar and not getting the proper training and coverage. This will eventually get clamped down on when the authorities wake up. Pedal assist or throttle up to 20mph are class 1 or 2, and can go anywhere a regular bike can go.
throttle-controlled bikes are often quite scary, many I've seen are very powerful and kits bought from the internet fitted to a bike without uprated brakes... leading to dodgy situations
You almost had it. Class I e-bikes are restricted to 20 mph with no throttle. Class II are restricted to 20 mph with a throttle. Class III e-bikes are restricted to 28 mph, no throttle. No class of e-bike requires a license or registration. In some jurisdictions, class III e-bikes are only allowed in bike lanes, not on trails. In California, all classes of e-bikes are allowed anywhere acoustic bikes are allowed. License and registration is required for electric mopeds (sometimes called class IV) and electric motorcycles, neither of which is classified as an e-bike. E-bikes are also distinct from 'motorized bicycles', which are bicycles fitted with a gas-powered motor. Bicycles, e-bikes, mopeds, motorcycles (M1/M2) and motorized bicycles are distinct classifications of two-wheeled vehicle.
There is another issue that did not come up. Cars are not used to Bikes going 30 Kmh. I ride that fast on a regular basis in the city of Zürich Switzerland. (not on an E Bike) Cars often try to pass even in a 30 Zone. My speed often creats dangerous situations, but offten because drivers are either rude, agressive or just think, if its a bike, they have to pass me. My solution has been, to ride slower, on an (non E) city bike and just relax. So no, making E Bikes faster, would just put a lot more people at rick. (My oppinion)
Swiss guy here. We have e-bikes going up to 45km/h (they need a license plate and soon you'll have to have to pass sort of a test to ride them at that speed) and have had them for close to a decade now. There was certainly a learning curve for motorists (and people on foot too for that matter) because those e-bikes approach a lot faster than a normal bike. HOWEVER, we got used to them and more people use these for commuting because a lot of people commute between cities and not just within a city. If your commute is 30-40km long then a faster bike will make a huge difference. Driving schools for cars now sensibilize their students to fast e-bikes and to increase safety you can partake in courses where you learn to handle an e-bike and the higher speeds - additionally, because an increasing number of senior citizens are using e-bikes, albeit the slower, max 25km/h versions, there are also lessons for those older people where they learn the somewhat different handling of an e-bike apart from riding speed (think the difference in acceleration etc) and those courses as wildly popular. In short: yes, there is an adaptation period but people do learn and faster e-bikes are simply more versatile and do not constrict efficient commuting to city-limits.
@@krystianbrazulewicz2227 Hence why new motorists are being trained too and have gotten used to e-bikes approaching quickly. If you go quick on a normal push-bike it's a different story. They perceive you as NOT an e-bike and will assume you're going as slow as any other leasurely bike-rider
I think the "problem" is you being on a regular pushbike and not on an e-bike. Cars are now pretty used to look out for e-bikes, but will still assume that you are slow if you are on a regular bike. (I live in Bern. There is a noticeable difference in behaviour of motorists towards e-bikes compared towards normal bikes. I usually make sure to either get out of the way or take up my space early - like pulling to the middle of the lane quit a bit ahead of a roundabout etc (In Switzerland bikes have to stay to the side of the lane and basically ride in the gutter - for anyone wondering why would not be towards the middle from the beginning ;) )
@@krystianbrazulewicz2227 I agree, it not my speed, its lack of i (respct) imagination on the part of the drivers. However, at speeds between 30 and 40 kmh, i put myself in a situation that could be more dangerous, due to poor drivers...
Definitely the 25kph limit is too low - no ordinary bike rider is restricted, why should e-bikes be restricted??45kph would allow e-bikes to avoid the “wall” when power cuts out. Robbie, ireland
Lets get this straight: The team manager tells a mechanic to pretend to be a rider at a sign-on. So the manager gets sanctioned, fine. But the mechanic takes a six month hit to their source of income. No. Wrong. That mechanic is not at fault.
I've said it before and will say it probably many more times; 25 kmh is like a child's speed. Here in the US, as you point out, our lower end is 32 kmh (20 mph) for class I and class II e-bikes in most jurisdictions, and 45 kmh (28 mph) for class III. Here in California, we just passed a bicycle omnibus act last year that went into effect on January 1st of this year that allows up to class III e-bikes on all trails where e-bikes are allowed, unless a local jurisdiction decides to restrict a specific class. In San Francisco, where I live, an e-bike can replace most of my car trips because the city is very dense (2nd densest in NA after the Manhattan burrough of NYC), and due to the hills, which complicate walking trips. In London it might be different because it's mostly flat and kind of spread out. I've been using e-bikes to run errands, get groceries, pick up 15 bags of potting soil, haul 245 lbs. of plate steel, make hardware runs, and things like that since 2017. What I've found here in the states is that a top speed of 20 mph/32 kph is actually dangerous for me personally, because it is _too slow_. At that speed I get caught between car traffic and don't have enough speed to get around it, so I get caught in little pockets trapped between two cars. At 28 mph/45 kph, I can safely overtake most car traffic, which allows me to clear out of traffic clumps like that. I've also found that the extra speed makes e-bike use for errands much more practical, because I can ride almost as fast as I would drive the same route. When I go on recreational rides on my XC e-bike, I've found that the extra speed lets me get through the flat sections faster, and since I ride round-trip from my front door, it makes the commute to and from the ride faster as well. On climbs and descents it's a moot point, because you won't be going even 20 mph on an ascent, and it's common to hit 35-50 mph on a descent from gravity alone while mountain biking. It really only becomes a factor on flat ground. And in those cases, yes, you use common sense. If you're on a shared path with children or dogs, it's a simple matter to slow your cadence and/or turn your assistance down. You Brits and the EU in general really need to untwist your knickers about this. E-bikes are a fantastic solution to sustainable local transportation, but your overly restrictive laws are slowing adoption. In the US, sadly, slow adoption has to do more with our derpy car culture. But in the UK you're holding back a potential windfall of e-bike adoption that might occur if only you would loosen up your regulations. You have everything else--the infrastructure, the culture, the political will, all of which bicycle activists in the US can only dream about--you just need less restrictive regulations to drive higher adoption rates. Speaking personally, all of the accidents and scrapes I've had on e-bikes have occurred while riding less than 10 mph when my front wheel locked up, not at high speeds.
As a former bike commuter, I enabled the option to go faster on my Cargo eBike. I'd keep myself strictly at 15 or under 20 on shared trails, but being able to surge and merge into traffic was literally a life saver when I needed to leave the Greenway and turn off onto my employers street. Attempting to legislate technical restrictions won't work, they're to easy to override. It's education, infrastructure, and enforcement that will need to be combined to keep are streets, roads, and trails safe
As a cycling motorcyclist, once the speed imits for e-bikes is equal to a moped then there is no excuse for that vehicle not to be registered, for the rider to be required to pass the CBT and for insurance to be compulsory along with a certified motorcycle helmet.
@@gcn I think this is the point though. We have motorcycles, including electric ones. What you are actually talking about is reverse banning e-bikes, dragging them up into the motorcycle category, so they no longer exist. People seem to have turned their brains off. You can't have motorcycles sharing offroad trails with hikers or pedestrian areas in cities, even cycle lanes would become too dangerous for normal cyclists to use. Why can't people just be happy with what they have? It is never enough. The people who set the limit probably did 1000s of hours of research into the dangers, maybe they knew what they were doing?
It's what I have said for the last few years. Also if they are going more than 20mph they do not belong in the bike lane, they need to ride in the regular vehicle lanes. By definition E Bike are motorcycles. Treat them as such!
Just a few thoughts. In America you can’t access all trails on a e-bike. Cycle paths and shared use paths can be in issue. This was shown in the Netherlands to be an issue with the closing speed on ordinary cyclists. I think si just needs a pedal electric. I’m for the status quo
In refrence to the cycling infrastructure segment. "build the bike lanes and the people will cycle" This is also true for motorists but more car lanes wont improve congestion. There is more on this topic from "Not just bikes" with their video "More Lanes are (Still) a Bad Thing". A lot of people have safety concerns, but if the infrastructure is safe then its a no brainer.
The difference between 16MPH and 20MPH is very noticeable in stop/start traffic. Drivers become more impatient following at 16 and more likely to try and get ahead, often with a close pass, whereas at 20 they are more likely to wait behind until the traffic stops again. 20MPH is a good compromise, without heading into moped/insurance/licence territory.
I agree as any cyclist pacing at 20mph should have the experience to safely coexist with pedestrians, while e-bike riders used their credit card to buy some Cat2 legs without the handling and knowledge to go with it.
As an experienced cyclist (and a motorcyclist as well) I fully support the idea to have no speed limits on e-bikes. But I also underatand that e-biking gathers much wider range of people that might not have even small part of my experience and the control I have. For them it would be pretty easy to get into dangerous high speed situations in the intense city environment. If there is no significant difference in the number of incidents in the US and in Europe, I guess there is no reason to have different speed limits. The US speed limit would be than a good compromise to motivate even more people in Europe to leave their motor vehicle and use an e-bike instead.
CBT! like moped and motorbikes, a £100 test lasts for 2 years and but no insurance or reg for Ebikes i think is fair and shows they ahve some skill and commitment.
20 km an hour is 15 1/2 miles an hour roughly for us US folks. If you think about the purpose of an E bike it’s typically for commuting or carrying kids or carrying some cargo load. When you look at your average commute speed to work or to the grocery store are you really averaging more than 15 1/2 miles an hour? You have to remember that these bikes are being used on greenways pathways and in other areas where there are more pedestrians and other bike users not just Vehicles. So a restricted speed of 15 miles an hour could be more safe if there was a bicycle pedestrian or perhaps a bicycle on bicycle related crash versus going 20 to 25 miles an hour in the same situation. My commute from home to downtown is exactly 7 1/2 miles and if I am pushing hard as if I’m in a race my average speed is roughly16 miles an hour. My PR is 17 miles an hour on average between stoplights and other barriers I just don’t think increasing the speed of restricted bikes by 2 to 4 miles an hour is really going to make a difference at the end of the day
Mind you I’m thinking more of e cargo bikes. If you have a gravel bike or some other electric bike that is not meant for Holland cargo ensure the speech should be increased! But where we live in Portland Oregon the most populous bike riding city in the USA we generally don’t allow people on e bikes in group rides.
Italian here, when I was 14 I was allowed to ride a scoter with a maximum speed of 50km/h (70 with a small but ilegal modification) with no licence, there were no problems, it's safer if e-bikes can match car's speed and ride in traffic, the problem is just taking away cars and fumes from the city, also having a bike doesn't imply the person doesn't have a driving licence.
California, USA here. I'm with Dan on this one. Now on the street I don't really care what people do because they are really only endangering themselves, but as long as I have to share bike paths with Ebikes i don't want them any faster. I see this a lot in touristy areas with rentals. Some dude flying down a bike path on a massive 29er Ebike barely keeping the thing upright and weaving all over the narrow path. The guy is in his 40ies and hasn't riden a bike in 20 years but he is easily doing 25MPH on this 50 pound bike. I've actually had more close calls with rental ebikes than I have cars! So for me I say ban them from bike paths and allow them to go faster or actually lower the top speed. Maybe some sort of licensing system could be used to separate tourists from experienced cyclists.
I am very lucky to be healthy and physically able to have a lot of fun on my bike. No need for an E-bike for me. However it is nice to know that there is an alternative on wich I can attack up hills when an illness or injury catches me. The thing is 25kph isn’t that fast on a roadbike is it? But I can also see that people who have their biking renaissance after 30 years of not riding might not be able to handle that speed safely. Or the acceleration in fact. Maybe the bikes can be restricted to 25kph and after 200km you can up that to 32kph?
Would love to see a behind the scenes of GCN mega base as well and all that goes into making a GCN/GTN/GMBN TH-cam video. I'm sure there are loads of really hard-working people that don't get enough credit for the amazing content that gets put out multiple times a week.
I feel like one problem with e-bikes is the bigger speed difference between cyclists. My 80-year-old (Dutch) grandmother used to ride her regular bike EVERYWHERE. Now she finds herself increasingly taking the bus. Not because of age, but because she doesn't feel comfortable around (or on) the e-bikes going past her everywhere. The mix of regular bikes and e-bikes on the same road seems like a perfect recipe for disaster. It's such a shame, because the everyday physical activity is so important.
The other issue that no one seems to have yet to bring up is that e-bikes are very heavy compared to regular bikes. All that extra mass will contribute to much more serious injuries when the inevitable collusions occur with pedestrians or other cyclists.
The only time I tend to have issues with e bike riders as a cyclist and car driver is when they are throttle powered, class 3 bikes that go 28mph. The type of rider on these bikes most of the time doesn't know how to pass another cyclist safely, they don't tend to pay antennas to cars since they are going faster then them on certain roads. Overall, they tend to ride very unsafe from my experience. And they are usually the ones you hear about on the news being involved in an accident.
I agree, having to pedal makes you more conscious that the speed you are reaching, the energy needed are not "free" and if you want to be there you need to be focused. Throttled fast ebikes are non-sense to me, they are moped in disguise. These should require a license like a moped
And yet children can get on an e-scooter in my country... no pedalling required. They wear no protective gear and often ride on the wrong side of the road. We don't see anyone restricting their speed (regularly going faster than 50km/h). This hobble-fest is most likely being fuelled by self-interested car drivers. We all know that the moment ebikes can move around at 40km/h they start to be a feasible replacement for the motor car and a heck of a lot cheaper to run. Imagine how many less obese people we would have in our society. The anti-ebike-speed arguments in this forum are being put forward by lazy, fat car drivers.
A class III e-bike, by definition, cannot have a throttle. That is not a class III e-bike, it is a non-road-legal e-bike. This discussion is about road-legal e-bikes.
Firstly, yes, get the definition locked down - once again this is typically non-e-bike owners who are ignorant of the differences. This group also seem to be very vocal in arguing against e-bikes. 1. E-bikes should have no throttle unless medical advice states it is required for ppl with particular issues that permanently or intermittently impede pedalling capability. Medical certificate required. 2. E-bikes shouldn't ever be used on shared walking/cycling tracks. That is common sense.
Here in the Netherlands, with all the cycling paths. The moment you'll increase the speed of ebikes. Including those for who are ridden by kids. You'll get the same problem with not having cycling lanes. The speed difference will be to big. Yes, on a road bike you could go faster than 25kp/h. But at least it's your own leg power to drive the bike. So maybe increase, but seem with speed pedalecs. License, insurance and helmet
I think the most important thing is that the cycling environment is as inviting as possible, so that people of all ages feel safe riding their bike. Higher speeds might work well on the country side, but not in the city center.
I'm in Turku in southwestern Finland. Here, closer to the center, the cycle lanes are very narrow or shared with pedestrians, so 25 km/h is quite ok, but there are also many instances where you have to share the road with cars and then 30 km/h would be better. Personally I would prefer the slower pace in a city context, but I kind of see the need for speed for people with long commutes. At the end of the day, it's about respecting the other road users.
I already have a license to ride a derestricted e-Bike, but I needed that for my 650cc petrol bike. As much as I love the e-Bike in my life, I am yet to see a cycling proficiency course that supplies the level of training required to ride what is the equivalent of a 50cc moped on the road. My local e-Bike shop have examples of road registered e-Bikes and the owner reports that he suffers horrible abuse from motorists who fail to recognise it as a moped and cyclists who fail to recognise it as an e-Bike. I will also add that I have undertaken advanced motorcycle training with UK police riders and undertaken the Gloucester Fire Service Ride to Arrive course. Just passing your motorbike test still only gives you the basics of road usage, there are greater levels to follow, all of which would be of benefit to an e-Bike rider. Perhaps you should have a chat with your local Police Advanced riders for their view on these things?
The problem I feel is not the 25kmh limit, that's plenty. The problem is the 250w motor limit. It means that where is motor is actually useful, on climbs or with an heavy load on the bike, the motor is not helping as much as it could.
Thanks for a great show. You were really on top form. As for e-bikes, I’m not saying I can even average 25 kph over a long ride, but I can easily hit 25 kph and sustain that for a while, so even for a slowpoke like me, the 25 kph speed limit is a real show stopper. To even consider the expense of an e-bike it would need a speed limit higher than I could average for, say, a 4-minute effort. There’s the conundrum, though, I guess. An e-bike giving people of any skill and fitness level speeds they can’t really produce themselves can be seen as dangerous even if that might be the only motivation to get an e-bike in the first place.
Rightly or wrongly I have desristricted my ebike. It's not particularly powerful, and I'm not zipping around at 60km/h like others, but on the flat it cruises along at about 31-33km/h while pedalling comfortably depending on the level of the battery. When commuting that's roughly the speed I hit on my road bike as a pretty untrained cyclist or if I pedal hard with the battery off - and that's why I justify to myself that it's fine. Most of the other cyclists are going roughly that speed too, and I feel like a roadblock to them going at 25. Other advantages: I don't arrive sweaty to work, my commute is more comfortable and consistent on a relaxed bike, and I can pack significantly more gear if I need to without cycling getting harder. I'm not pro derestriction of ebikes, but I am definitely pro revisiting whether the current limits are sensible. I want a limit that reflects the speed of traffic. 32km/h probably hits the sweet spot for me. ETA: I'd also be a fan of graduated power limits, rather than speed limits. One of the worst parts of the 25 limit for me was that I naturally was pedalling the bike between 24-26. The sudden drop from having assist at 25.0 to pedalling slightly to hard and having to do all of the work at 25.1 made for a really frustrating cycling experience for me. It was a sudden massive step change in effort. No doubt there is a better way of handling this than the relatively budget system I use, but another reason I decided to derestict my bike.
I’m nearly 75 and no my e bike is not too slow. I cycle on average 10 miles an hour as I have the speed on low. My highest speed I have cycled is 35 miles an hour. But I very seldom go above 20 miles an hour.
in cities it is often not so much about the 'how fast a cyclist can cycle' but rather 'how much red/green lights they need to wait on'. One can go 35km/h for 400m and then wait 40 seconds for the lights to change. City is not a racing track, especially with many cyclists ignoring traffic rules.
@@gcn I think there is many things that come into play here. Good infrastructure can help to achieve greater average speed, especially when we think about wide and separated cycling lanes, BUT on the flip side: more cyclists using the lanes leads to slower travel speeds, especially when we think about mixed crowd with kids cycling to school. Even an extensive bike lines network can not help, when the lines are too narrow to overtake other cyclists as in the case in Berlin. I can imagine that in cities without any bike lanes research could yield high speed as only very experienced and fast bikers would risk filtering through traffic in the streets. It is a cool research question! one that deserves a proper investigation and measures.
The helmet/ebike ratio study made a faulty bit of math/maths. It was comparing annual sales between years to recognize the growth rate. But that neglects those still on the road which were sold in the intervening few years. That makes the rate differential between ebikes and head injuries less dramatic. Still a problem, just not as much
I helped my father choose an e-bike recently - an eye-opening experience. Advised him to go for a standard 25 km/h-limited pedal-assisted one as I felt that the regulations are there for a good reason. When I personally tried it, I felt like it was a bit too slow on roads with decent traffic, where I personally commute, but still good enough for where he lives. My personal belief is that changing speed limits won't do much. Better infrastructure is the way to go, as right now people have to either: ride slower and use pedestrian areas/bike lanes, and follow pedestrian rules, or ride faster (yet controlled) and use roads and bike lanes and respect traffic laws. Problems arise when cyclists (or various e-stuff users) change their behaviour back and forth between pedestrian-like and traffic-like, become unpredictable, and obey no rules, which I think is a consequence of poor infrastructure and education. There will always be the illegal stuff, but it should not lead to minors riding adventurously in traffic (saw one in the middle lane of a very fast road the other day!), but rather to speeding in the bike lane, if only such existed. Another topic was touched upon - helmets. I didn't use to wear one when commuting in town, just on sport rides, and this is a habit I'm trying to instill on commutes as well. At some point I looked back at the past year or two and recollected enough instances of head trauma around me. My way to go about it: keep the blinking rear light on the back of the helmet - forces me to wear it and makes the rear light easily portable between bikes.
The problem isn't that they're too slow or too fast, if the riders are licensed or not. The biggest problem with eBikes is that the most critical component is overlooked by the manufacturers in order to cut costs: the brakes. Most have cable actuated disc brakes that are woefully underpowered. eBikes need to have four piston hydraulic brakes, but if they did, the cost is probably prohibitive.
My wife's 20kg e bike with her on it is a lot lighter than most men on a normal bike, it's the rider plus bike weight that matters and for most the e bike only adds c 10kg.
There’s one other challenge with e-bikes, and that’s the handling due to the weight. My 78-year old dad rides an e-bike that weighs 25 kg. He is fit, can handle it and rides often, but there are probably many who can’t. A license would be the best approach, if you ask me.
Thanks for the comment, it's great to hear that your dad is still riding 🙌 Do you think he would have still wanted to ride if he had to apply for a licences?
@@gcn Yes, he would, assuming that cost and effort are adequate and it would be for all and not just for "old people". Personally, I find it weird that there are people taking part in everyday traffic who may have never learned the rules. For instance: In Germany, if you don't get a driving license for a car, the last (and only) time you learned about traffic rules was at age ten. Whether this is the most pressing issue in today's society is another question, though. And yes, my dad plays golf, goes to the gym, rides a bike, and hikes. He's definitely a role model for aging well.
Average city speed, does that include time at red lights though? In which case moving speed should be the number. 25 kph is a little slow, 30 would be better, that’s an easy pace to achieve as a solo rider. It’s annoying when you hit 25 and lose your power, slow down again and get power back, for the areas your speed is bouncing around the limit.
I’m an eBiker and quite a few thousand miles off-road (gravel mostly) and the biggest problem I have is keeping up with friends on analogue bikes on the flat, typically doing 17-19 mph. So 20mph would get around this issue when struggling with 30kg ebike.
The problem with Si's logic is that if speed were the biggest holdup, more people would ride mopeds instead of driving a car because of fuel savings. BTW, I used to commute 40 miles round trip and did that for about 10 years so I am pro bike commuting
@@feedbackzaloop it’s mostly flat in Epping forest, with very thick clay soil that don’t drain but gets eaten up & dries like concrete in the summer. You can’t really get to 30mph. Its a much more sensitive environment
That's an interesting point! Did you see EMBN cover a similar subject? 👉 th-cam.com/video/TUSzpRicpdI/w-d-xo.html - You might enjoy the off-road point of view
Enjoying the content; had to chime in as I'm about to surpass 44 000kms on my e-bike. Here in Canada, my bike is governed at 32km/h. Being able to travel at that speed aids in getting ahead of traffic from a stop; keeping pace with most traffic on a bike forces drivers to take notice of you - particularly when you whizz by in the margins, whilst they're grid-locked; access to higher speed and a throttle provides the capacity to escape impending danger/harm. I've encountered more than a few derestricted or homemade e-bikes in my time riding. I gauged one individual at 80-100km/h, bombing down a shared pedestrian/equestrian/cycling gravel path. A fellow commuter, outpacing me, finally met up at a red light. After a brief conversation, I discover he's derestricted, and easily attains 50km/h, on the same shared network as the Darwin Award winner mentioned prior. Even spotted a man on a bona-fide moped with vanity license plates that read "E-BIKE" - he's fooling himself, whilst endangering others. It's wild out here.
It does Somewhat feel like the wild west out there. it's great to hear that you have found the higher speed limit safer. Do you think it matters what sort of area you live in? Rural vs city 🌆
@@gcn I suppose that could be a factor, but my commute has me travelling on urban roads, suburban neighbourhoods, rural areas and wilderness parks - I see it all.
For the UK - the 250W power limit is unnecessary if the 25kph speed limit exists. 'I have heard that' some hills need 1500W or higher to maintain sensible speeds. But 'somebody I know' managed to wrap their inner tube around their cassette on a pebbly beach the other day so be careful out there! And having the assistance cut off at 25kph is great for a fitness ride, above that speed you can pedal as hard as you like.
@Si - My wife has had daffs in the house for the past month and my son has been complaining about the smell of urine. The rest of us thought he was nuts and he was beginning to doubt himself. He sends enormous gratitude for the validation of his sanity.
As a 72-year old who now occasionally tops a heady 20kph, I am too slow to go riding with my mates. I tried an electric MTB last year and was mightily impressed. Firstly, when you didn't pedal, it didn't produce power. (One setting added 60% power to whatever I produced.) So, climbing the dirt trails in Tollymore Forest was quite definitely a workout but allowed my to ride with a significantly stronger rider. So, great. The big BUT is that if I wanted to ride with my triathlon mates out on the road, an upper limit of 25kph would restrict who I could ride with on the flat.
problem with bikes is..... if there is no bike lane, you can not overtake cars on the right side (NOT UK). so if bikes get faster then cars, they need to overtake cars on the left side, what will confuse a lot of car drivers, and it will put cyclist, in the middle of the motorised tragic. Not saying that overtaking on the right side is save, because car drivers also not expect something over there Here in Sweden we have tractors, that can ride 30km/h. i would not make cycles faster then that. i think that can be dangerous. okej, i know peddle bikes can also go faster... but..... i don't know how to solve that :D
I live in a city in Southern California where, seemingly, the majority of e-bikes are ridden by kids, often as young as 10-11 year olds. Many of them have zero regard for any safety or legal laws and can usually be seen pulling wheelies or some other dangerous stunts on the side walks and streets. While those behaving recklessly might be the minority, it does say a lot about whether there should be some sort of proficiency test required in order to operate an e-bike. While I wholeheartedly agree with Si's sentiments, he is perhaps forgetting that his POV's are from the perspective of a very experience cyclist and a responsible adult. Therefore, IMHO, raising the speed limit, and making them available for the masses, is a recipe for disaster.
Important to distinguish e-assist from throttle e-bikes. Hard stop, no throttle bikes on bike paths. Outside of that, I have my e-cargo bakfiets with 5 assist levels, which I’ve programmed with different speed and power levels for the context. I find ~250W is what’s needed to offset the weight and aero drag of the heavy bike (guessing 50kg) compared to me on a road bike. 500W for me to cruise to work without sweating (beauty of e-bike commuting is you can dress for your destination not for the ride). Those are the two levels I’ll use on bike paths, but I have the other 3 for if I have to mix with cars, I can scoot to keep up. An e-cargo bike is a GAME CHANGER. I built this up as my “zero excuses bike”. No matter the weather, from -10C to 40C, fully enclosed for cargo (child/groceries, etc), and it sure feels good rolling up to daycare or my work downtown and locking up by the front door or even bringing it inside, meanwhile those who drive sit in traffic, park 10 min walk away… and I’m in a Midwest US city not particularly well known for its bike infrastructure
"Hard stop, no throttle bikes on bike paths." but why? Exactly? I could even argue that pedaling hard leaves you with less ability to concentrate on the surroundings as you are sweating and in discomfort.
As a professional driver and a decades long cyclist I agree with Dan's concern with knucklehead e-bike riders. I've witnessed their recklessness in many different situations. I was in Telluride, Co as a middle school let out. I watched the main street fill with numerous e-bike flying down the road, most with 3-5 adolescents hanging on. Then I've seen adults who haven't ridden a bike since childhood, but must think it's a toy. I appreciate the joy I see, but going way to fast with total disregard for others. They all over the and on and off the sidewalks. Speed, hubris and total disregard is not a good mix.
The speed limit for an e bike in the US is def not 20mph. Theres are ebikes that are throttle backed so no need to pedal and hit 28mph and are not regulated at all.
I live in the U.S. the more rowdy E-Bike riders have already figured out how to disable the speed restriction software. I like to raz the E-bikers about them riding nothing more then a electric MOPED. Thanks for the information about having to have a MOPED license to ride a E-Bike. I am going to use that.😁
I can't believe nobody seems to have mentioned that raising e-bikes speed limit to 20mph would be great for roadies since we could sit on their wheel (I'd expect 20mph to be a sweet spot for majority, unless you're a pro), whilst now at 15mph you need to overtake them.
There's a definite need for changes to the laws. My own personal opinion is that we need different classes of e-bikes to suit everyone. Class 1 - meets current standards, 250w continuous same max assisted speed as currently. Class 2 - 20mph max speed either assisted or via throttle, can only be ridden by those aged 16 and over, helmet and lights compulsory and on shared paths can only be ridden up to 10mph but must give pedestrians priority. Class 3 - 25mph maximum speed, can only be ridden on roads and dedicated cycle routes not shared paths, helmets and lights compulsory and can only be ridden by those aged 17 and over. Anything over that and it has to be registered as a moped, with CBT compulsory, insurance, lights, indicators etc. all required just like mopeds and motorbikes and this class too cannot use shared paths nor cycle routes, as they are basically motorbikes or mopeds so should be restricted to road riding only. For e-scooters I'd have two classes with the maximum speed on roads at 20mph for class 1 scooters, with similar rules for class 2 e bikes when it comes to the other requirements. Higher speed e-scooters would for me have the same rules as mopeds etc. In addition to these requirements it should be legally mandated that e-bikes and e-scooters should undergo compulsory safety inspections for each type manufactured by a company with a new certification system introduced, as there are too many dodgy, poorly built e-bikes available via the likes of Amazon, Ali Express etc.
I live in the US. I have Giant EX Pro I use for commuting, bike packing, and fun. It is limited to 28mph. I would hate having it limited to 20mph. I'm normally cruising around 22-25 on most commutes.
If i had to pay insurance to ride e-bike i just wouldn't. I own cargo that i use to ride my kids and my top speed is on avarage 15km/h, i just use motor for up hill and other difficulties. And insurance would cost me almost as much as i pay for my cars insurance
Three things: An e-bike that doesn't need to be pedalled is surely a motorbike? In any event, it mystifies me why no-one ever explains that an e-bike is NOT limited to 25kph. The pedal assist is limited to 25kph but you can cycle as fast as you like over 25kph - you simply won't have any pedal assist. Dan Lloyd is using basic economics to determine whether a purchase is worth making (an attribute absent in most Gen-zers). I tried the tongue hanging out trick on my turbo session yesterday. Blow me down, it works ! My HR dropped two beats under significant pressure. Happy days :-)
Just a shot in the dark, but perhaps the issue with e-bikes and crashes/head injury can be related to: New pedal cyclist generally (baring downhill) take time to build up to ride consistently at higher speeds, so have a chance to build bike handling skills and awareness. E-bikes of course, you can just start off with higher consistent speeds and therefore many are lacking the skills necessary to ride safely. The e-bikes are heavier generally and do not brake/stop as fast as the lighter bikes as well. I do not see this as an issue with the equipment, or the speed of the e-bikes, but as usual many humans messing it up by not being prepared for the activity we are trying to do.
15mph to 20mhp is ideal for traveling with acoustic bike traffic in bike lanes/mixed use paths. e-Motorcycles can be unlimited if plated, but need to stay on the roads and stay within the regular road limits. The unrestricted bikes need to stay off bike lanes and mixed use paths.
Personal experience. I ride both normal bicycle and an e-bike. Sometimes sudden power output makes the e-bike twitchy and by design most of them are not as controllable as a road bike. So I am extra careful when riding the e-bike.
Hey guys, e-bikes or electric assist bikes in the US are actually allowed to work up to 28 mph! But, as you may know there are different types of e-bikes: those that use a “natural assist” type of power augmentation and those that provide power with throttle control, independent of pedal strength. I think the natural assist which requires the rider to provide the pedal strength to operate are safer than the throttle types. You tend to see people with no experience riding the latter, which I believe leads to most accidents. Bottom line: have the bikes that are designed as pedal assist raised to 28 mph worldwide, but the e-bikes that have power similar to mopeds (throttle assist) limited to 20 mph.
I think that the rules are pretty reasonable at the moment. In the USA, they started with much fewer restrictions, and now they are being completely banned in some places.
Do you know what's crazy? I'm watching this at my folks' place. My dog is here and I started smelling urine so asked my folks if Mika may have peed somewhere in their living room. Turns out I'm sitting next to a vase of daffodils and it's them. This happened about 2 minutes after Si's urine smell story
Well in the US the infrastructure is a lot worse you barley have bike lanes or sidewalks and most of them are painted gutters and the driverslicnese isn´t as strict as in europe so they don´t look for cyclists that much. Another factor is that the cars over there are much bigger so you are more likely in a frontal crash with a car to be draged under the car and get serious injuries instead of being on the hood of the car with less injuries obviously. In Germany there was a study that found out that the average speed for cars within cities is about 30km/h and some traffic scientists/engineers pointed out that it would be less dangerous for cyclists if they could go that speed on an E-bike (you can sure but not supported) because cars would over take you less and you sort of just flow with the traffic.
As an e bike owner in Australia I think the 30 k.p.h. Is fine ,my only gripe is you should be able to use your (if fitted) throttle controller up to that speed . I’m in my late seventies and find getting off the mark at intersections can be dangerous, remember e bikes are a lot heavier than ordinary cycles, this brings me to my next point, brakes ,all e-bikes need to be fitted with good quality brakes.
I ride an e-bike to work most days and I’m NOT in London. I’m in Cardiff. So with the default speed limits everywhere being lower now I’d like a little extra assistance!! 20 would be nice.
E-bikes can be extremely hard on brakes, depending on how they're ridden. Lots of e-bike riders aren't super tuned into bike maintenance, and I'd bet that's a big source of risk (having serviced several ebikes for friends and family).
I love my e-bike, but if it's going to be allowed on shared paths and in bike lanes, I don't think they should be going much faster than 25kmph. Maaaaybe 30kmph would be fine. Another aspect is that half the e-bikers I see are delivery drivers (I am one myself), and trust me when I say the vast majority of delivery drivers are not cycling at safe speeds when going through areas with pedestrians. They have a financial incentive to go as fast as they can at all times. I know half of them have illegal e-bikes that don't abide by the speed limit anyway, but I'd rather the police do something about that rather than do away with limits completely.
The issue with e-bikes in our Dutch cities is that at 25 kph the go much faster than the average regular cyclist, while using the same bicycle infrastructure. And it can be very busy on our bicycle lanes. E-bikes are the cause of a steep increase in bicycle and pedestrian accidents. They don't slow down when they should. Worse are the fatbikes which can be stepped up easily (however illegally) and are ridden often completely irresponsibly and cause many accidents. Now it's our challenge how to adapt the infrastructure to the new situation (haven't even mentioned the enormous numbers of e-cargo bikes), which will be with a speed limit of 25 kph enough of a challenge.
I added a Swytch kit to an old mountain bike last year, and I really enjoy it, though it's not about the speed. I have been using it to get into shape for the coming season. I use it in the lowest power setting and turn it off when not climbing hills. By doing this, I can extend the batteries' range to about 40 km. Great workout.
As a Filipino, I don't think we have any regulations about e-bike (and e-trike) speed, but it doesn't matter anyway since we are, sadly, a car-centric nation.
I come from a place where we bike a lot. The main reason is we can't afford a cars :-) And, difference in speed between two objects is what is dangerous, not the speed in it self. So, if you would like it to be safe to ride at 10 or 15 km/h in dedicated bikelanes, bikes that ride 32 km/h will very often be too fast? ...and btw, if speed is your thing, you could hop on a race bike, no? ;-)
If e-bikes are dedicated to having more tech in them, just put some wireless/bluetooth tether to a "smart helmet" accessory so when the cyclist is wearing the helmet, the speed limit is removed or at least raised compared to when the helmet isn't in range.
I find 25kph too slow when I am shamelessly glued to the back wheel of an upright big guy. 30kph would be perfect for some sneaky drafting when its windy on my coastal commute.
I agree that a limit of 30kph would integrate ebikers better with cycle commute traffic in bike lanes and avoid the zoom off cruise slow problem. Would also help ebike riders to be closer to normal traffic flow speeds in suburbia
No helmet isn't a great idea. Even if there's great cycling infrastructure. I have fallen off my bike purely because I got my steepcap boot caught on the frame as I was dismounting. Australian e-bike laws are the same as Europe. E-bikes here were previously less powerful.
I would loose the fitness effect of my E-Bike if it would support me over 25km/h. I am working harder on that thing than on my gravel bike because I aim to generate enought power so the motor shuts up. Cruising speed is about 29km/h on flat streets for the 29kg E-Bike (Riese & Müller Charger 3 Touring). But the US limit would make more sense as roads are normally limited to 30, 50 or 70 km/h in europe. So bikers could swim with the cars at around 32 km/h in cities.
If you have to get a license plate on a e-bike because of the speed. Should a pro cyclist have to get a license plate because they go as fast as a e-bike?
@simonrichardson5259 Well, that's not me, I'm luck just to hold 17 mph,, lol. But I've been watching every GCN show to learn how to get my speed up and to be consistent.
True some of these roadies are just as dangerous. I saw one run into someone the other day and knock them down. I was going 30km on my X11. And they sped past me at over 40km. And thats dangerous in a built up highstreet.
I like ebikes being slower, so that even though they pass me going up hill. I can pass them on the flat if I'm willing to go into the red on my commute home.
As a analogue and e-cyclist I’m pretty happy with e-bikes as they are if you want to go faster then pedal more. I already pay enough to insure my bikes against theft without having to pay a premium for having an e-bike that goes faster. Even the fact that I have health issues wouldn’t make me consider an e-bike that goes faster.
Are eBikes too slow? ⚡
eBikes should have no speed limiters at all, and should be banned from bike paths / lanes.
Nope i dont think so. You still can ride faster but have to rely on your muscels. On the other hand you get a well sprung, comfortable bike that you can ride effortless with 25km/h. To be honest, there are just way to many idiots out there, no matter if on bike or in a car. Until there is a good bicycle infrasturcture from my perspective and what i see daily its too dangarous
Not for the current infrastructure. As long as people vote for "more car lanes", "more car parking" and other idiocracies, it'll have to stay at 25 km/h. When the cities are (finally) rebuilt, 30km/h should be fine. Barcelona and Paris are on a good way, Amsterdam is way ahead and ze germans ... well, the germans are "trying". As are the Italians.
edit: every major city should do what Paris did: set the max. speed for automobiles to 30 km/h :) That's a better start than to rise e-Bike speeds.
edit 2: you said it yourself there: make them the same speed as automobile traffic :) make cars go 30 km/h and slower and everyone is happy (it improves traffic flow for cars immensely)
yeah because i think it would be better if ebikers could use the road like any other motorized vehicle and that's just not something people will do if the speed limiter is too slow. if that's not possible then i think they should atleast make it easier to get non type approval fast ebikes registered. there are so many bikes that are basically the same as speed pedelecs but only cost like half of what speed pedelecs cost but they just lack type approval. like they have the same brakes and tires and even motors.
@@oplkfdhgkWhy wouldn't this just come under the current rules about scooters? The reason they are limited to 25kph is because anyone can get on one and ride it with zero bike handling skills or effort. Why would anyone ride a scooter if you could get a faster e-bike and not have to have any sort of CBT, licence, insurance etc.
I'm an eBike commuter in the US who rides 70% on seperated bike/pedestrian paths and 30% on fairly quiet streets. My bike is limited to 20mph and I feel like any faster would feel unsafe for pedestrians on the paths. I'm not quite keeping up with traffic, but the speed with which I can pull away from junctions at a complete stop is the thing that keeps me safest I think.
Thanks for the comment! Great to hear from those that have experience, If you could raise the limit legally on your bike would you?
@@gcn I don't think I would. I think the only time I've felt limited is when stuck at 9mph getting up a steep hill, not when cruising on an empty street at 20mph :)
Thanks for posting this and I completely agree. Rude cyclists are already an issue on the bike routes here in the Denver area. Rude e bike riders make it even worse, as many of these people didn't 'come up through the ranks' in cycling, as it were. They plough along as if they are driving a car down a path that includes slower cyclists, joggers, walkers, families with children and dogs, etc. If you want a fast electric vehicle with two wheels, get yourself an electric motorcycle and drive it where it belongs: on the street.
From Chicago, 20mph is definitely the sweet spot. I think the speed of roads here are faster, even in the city. 20mph is fast enough to travel barely with traffic, but it feels safer. Though on rainy and snowy days people should be smart enough to lower their speed to 15mph. Faster than 20 in the city is not necessary with all the traffic junctions. Argument for faster bikes are mostly for more suburban areas in the US where people are commuting long distances and wear motorcycle protection. My gripe for safety is any bikes not following traffic rules.
Agreed. I am in Australia with 25km/h (15mph) legal limits, but plenty of illegal bikes/scooters on the shared pedestrian pathway going 50+ km/h (30+ mph) making it dangerous for those other users. I'd be happy to let others go higher, with a registration & licence, having to be on the road like all other motor bikes.
Given rise in 20 mph zones and given cyclists are meant to ride and behave as traffic imho I don’t think a limit of 20 mph is unreasonable. Although in reality the whole conversation is somewhat a farce given the volume of e-bikes on the road with throttles and no speed restrictions. I’ve seen so many e-bikes with no peddle movement and traveling at around 40 mph
As an e-bike rider I use mine to get out due to health issues as I’m no longer able to ride a non assist bike. The illegal e-bikes give those of us who abide by the laws a bad reputation
My e-bike is a huge help to getting back out, mine isn’t derestricted but I can see why people do it. I think no limit is silly. 20 mph I think would be a reasonable balance
Although there’s a whole other view regarding power restriction versus speed restriction
Great reply. Glad to hear you are getting so much out of your e bike. My wife would say just the same. We have been able to do some amazing rides in the mountains all over the world since she got her e bike 7 years ago.
20mph is faster than most people have ever gone on a bike.
@@matthewlewis2072 it’s a limit not a minimum you still need to pedal. I’m not advocating throttles and having 20 mph mopeds that would be daft
This power issue is what I was thinking too. There's limits on both, for us here at least. I'm friends with a few local bike shop owners, and we (along with some pro-cycling politicians) are trying to get our local power restrictions uped, at least. (even for big cargo bikes we have quite strict (too low) limits.
I started to see those modified ebikes even in Tokyo. I was on a long uphills avenue at around 4% and at around 30kmh (I was definitely tapping power from my legs) and saw a guy on his smartphone on a chinese ebike with fat tires zipping through at easy 35-40kmh with almost no pedaling.
The irony is that in Japan, a 50cc moped is limited to 30kmh officially and you need a helmet, an insurance, a number plate. and you had to take a small practice course. That guy was over this, without helmet, probably no insurance.
In Japan bikes have the right to be on the sidewalks and I definitely dont want to see power ebikes speeding at 30kmh on it. Too much power in the hands of people who don't know how to ride is dangerous. But at the same time I agree that ebikes could be the perfect short-medium commuting personal vehicles of the future, this could help in less dense suburbs or the countryside and there 24-25kmh is a bit too slow.
I think legislation and ebikes categories may have to be reworked on.
20 MPH on e-bikes is good to match all the 20 MPH limits in cities now, problem is cyclists with no training and even 20MPH can cause issues. I'm sure there's a few cyclists will make bad overtake judgements in narrow cycle lanes but for the road with cars would be good IMO.
I agree that for ebikes on the road among motor vehicles a 30Km/h limit would reduce friction with the rest of the traffic. However, when the same ebike is sharing a trail with pedestrians, a 20Km/h limit seems much more prudent. The trouble is enforcement: nobody is actually going to police the speed of bicycles on paths. I don't have a solution.
I think the risk with faster e-bikes is the one they pose to pedestrians. Bicycles exists in middle space between pedestrians and road traffic with neither area really being very well suited. I don't know for sure how much a difference an extra 5kmh on a shared path would be in terms of avoiding or crashing into a pedestrian, but from what I've experienced so far e-bike riders stand a far higher risk of injuring a pedestrian than an ordinary cyclist would both in terms of the mass of the vehicle and the speed at which they are regularly moving through crowded paths.
My counter suggestion to the idea of increasing the speed of e-bikes is that electric scooters exists, if you want to go faster then you get to buy a different vehicle and deal with the extra requirements that comes with it. Leave the e-bikes a weaker and slower option that any one can have access to.
You only have to see how riders of illegal e-scooters and e-bikes ride on cycle lanes.
The thing is , speed limits dont apply to bicycles
And where does anyone in the US actually drive at the speed limit,?
For me it's simple. If you don't need to pedal, then it's not a bike, it's a motorcycle. For me, e-bikes should be a regular bike with some assistance in your pedaling, which would be great in climbing, specially for people that use them to commute, but you are still doing some form of exercise. The assistance should be less and less the more you approach the limit, so you can still go faster if you pedal hard, but no assistance. The first e-bikes were like this, but now you see a lot of e-bikes where it's just a bike with an electric motor and a battery and people will never pedal out of those things
Good point, here we are talking about pedal assist Ebikes - there seems to be lots of illegal bikes that slip under the radar 👀
@@gcn e-llegal bikes, you might say.
I bike commute to work on a daily basis and yes, it's with a regular bike aka a me-bike (meaning the power is generate by me.) What's the point of riding a bike if you don't have to put any work into it?!?!
@@IowaNinersFan word. People calling leg-powered bicycles "acoustic" and the like, to establish electric bicycles as the norm, are laughable.
@@IowaNinersFan you might want to do some actual research. It's been shown in study after study that e-bike riders get more exercise than Amish bike riders.
I thibk the biggest thing holding people back with e-bikes is not the speed limit but
1. Secure storage
2. Safe infrastructure
3. Too pricey
Great point! They can be very expensive. That said, in the long run you often save money against a car. Did you see that Si has ditched the car for the Ebike 👉 th-cam.com/video/S00r7WVbz5k/w-d-xo.html
Storage is definitely a part of it. I live in an upstairs apartment with a long flight of stairs. If my neighbour wasn't letting me store my bike in their garage, I don't know what I'd do.
Fires from battery charging is also a concern.
Too pricey? That's not an argument, that's just a lame excuse for not cycling. People easily spend thousands of euro's on a car, but expect to get a bike for almost nothing.
@@permanenceinchange2326
Best comment ever. Not realising in the longrun you will save thousands of pounds. It's the SAME attitude even with non electric bikes. They want a £50 bike. That's as heavy as a tank and will kill you on steep grades.
And anyone who spends a couple of thousand on a quality bike is a fool according to them. Not realising that when you have a super efficient quality bike. You will ride it alot more and in turn SAVE alot of money. I've saved over £25,000 on travel in the last 7 years on my amazing Tern verge X11.
I think people are confused here by the term speed limit for e bikes. The 15.5mph limit is the point at which the electrical assistance stops, there’s nothing (except hills in my case) which restricts you from peddling faster.
Exactly! My friend on an ebike has no idea she drops me on hills. But cannot pedal fast enough to keep up on downhills.
My wife has an eBike that's limited to 28mph (class 3. no throttle at all). It more or less replaces her car through the summer. If it were limited to 25kph (15mph) I don't think we would have even looked at it and she would still be driving her car through the summer. At least in the US, unless and until cycling infrastructure gets more ubiquitous, eBikes need to keep up with city traffic, which is normally between 20mph and 35mph in my area.
Also, 25kph is right around the speed I normally go on my 2012 Dahon D7.
Details on your cougar story here: Hi everyone,
This is Kendal and Alexa. You may know us as Keri's two daughters-Alexa the pilot and Kendal the baker. Many of you would describe our mom as the sweetest, kindest, humblest, and most selfless person you will ever get the pleasure to know. Unfortunately we did not get to know our grandmother, her mom Marilyn. But she is described as an angel on earth. She absolutely took after her in that way!
Apart from her kind demeanor and sweet smile, she is one badass lady. She has become a pillar in the women's biking community. There is not an hour that goes by where she was not talking, thinking or planning her next big adventure. Her calendar is booked solid with every moment centered around the next thrilling ride.
On the afternoon of Saturday February 17th, our world stood still. Our indestructible mom was injured in a way we would have never imagined. She was riding her bike through a very popular mountain biking trail near North Bend with 4 other ladies. Mom was in the middle of the train with 2 riders ahead and 2 riders behind her when she was tackled off her bike by a 75 lb cougar. The cougar latched onto her lower jaw. Her courageous friends quickly jumped to action to save her life as well as their own. Ultimately it was their quick thinking that saved her life. They spent the next 15 minutes trying to fight the animal off of her. Finally he released and the ladies were able to get the animal away from her and had to hold him down with a bike to keep him from continuing the attack. They held him down for about 30 minutes until officers arrived at the scene. Because of these heroic women, we still have our mom with us. We are forever grateful to them all.
As far as her injuries, she has experienced severe trauma to her face as well as permanent nerve damage. It will be a lifelong battle and a long road ahead to recovery.
The funds of this page will go directly towards all expenses as a result of her injury. Bills, living expenses, and anything else she may need. Thank you so much for all the positive thoughts and prayers! Her mindset is positive and she hopes to get back on her bike one day soon! www.gofundme.com/f/keris-ride-to-recovery
I think 30kph would be more convenient for commuting and not being a hassle on the road. BUT: if just about anyone can jump on one of those and go fast with very limited effort, 25kph are already potentially dangerous to the rider and everyone around them, especially on bike lanes or in spaces shared with pedestrians. Most e-bikers are not as skilled as the average GCN viewer.
Great points, the weight of Ebikes has big effect on the handling. What do you think can be done to make Ebikes safer? Perhaps looking to infrastructure could be the way to go 👀
What about making the people responsible for their own actions...and stop making excuses for dickheads.
@@gcn The same way we do with motorcycles. Power classes and licenses to access them. Keep a 25kph limited entry level class that does not require license (maybe even lower it to 20?), provide a 30 kph class that does require some sort of license. Maybe also ban them from shared paths and sidewalks. After that you can maybe advance the license to a proper motor cycle license.
This.
I'm not sure amount of effort necessarily correlates with skill, handling and road sense: being able to go at 20mph with little effort and little skill is as bad as 20mph with a lot of effort and little skill. Just because somebody has a decent power output doesn't mean their safe on a bike.
Also a lot of ebike user are regular cyclists either on their ebikes only or using the ebike for some trips (like a commute) and regular bikes for other outings. Just like any other cyclist, the more they use them the better they get.
Isn't the video at 12:26 actually Omloop het Nieuwsblad? There's no Movistar rider there and Lazkano was in a 3-man group with Wout and Tim Wellens.
Correct. We are going to make the editor ride efforts like Lazkano as punishment! Good spot! 👍
When I'm on busier roads I crave more speed. But on quiet roads it's fast enough, and on shared paths it's too fast.
Consequently I tend to choose the quieter routes and dedicated cycle paths. And that results in a more relaxed ride
do you think the more speed on a busy road is to be able to keep up with the flow of traffic? or to get off of the stretch of road as quick as possible?
That's super interesting sting that on quiet roads you are happy to sit up and chill 👀
The problem is not that ebikes are too slow. The problem is that cars in the urban areas are allowed to go to fast. I'm sure faster ebike injuries are on the rise, but that data is irrelevant when not compared with auto related injuries. I think we spend way too much time trying to make bikes and pedestrians safer without addressing the root cause of danger: priority on automobile through put in built up areas.
That's a really interesting point! 20MPH zones are becoming common place, do you think this is still not slow enough?
There are two opposing costs to e-bike assistance limits. 1. more injuries from higher speeds. 2. fewer users from lower speeds (imagine if the limit was 5kph). We usually focus on the first and neglect the 2nd, probably leading to somewhat too slow limits.
Also, where there are laws allowing higher limits when various conditions are met, this also neglects a cost of fewer users due to the cost of these conditions. Therefore, if higher limits are allowed under certain conditions, these conditions should be about proficiency not paying registration or insurance.
All this assumes e-bikes are good because they reduce congestion, increase health and wellbeing (from increased exercise), and cause less harm to the environment.
Speed limits here in Germany start with walking speed ("Spielstrasse" - play street). There are zones where you are allowed to drive at 10 or 20 kph max. Therefore I do not share the opinion that 20 mph is the lowest speed limit in the EU countries. It makes my hair stand up when I imagine all those elderly riders (of course not all of them) on e-bikes would be travelling any faster than 25 kph. They are dangerous as hell even at 25 kph especially if they never had a driving license and don't know the basic rules. Therefore 25 kph is fast enough. It keeps our streets safe.
I agree and put some effort into calculating the breaking distance. It is 44% longer between 25 and 30km/h😮
Also there already is a 45kph e-bike. You need a licenseplate for that one and you must ride on the road. Believe me... that is no fun. Faster but you are always surrounded by cars and trucks who WILL overtake you. 25kph is really enough.
Do you think the speed limits stop people from getting on bikes? 🚴
You seem to think that the ebike assisted speed limit is something that ebike riders cant go below. Like any cyclist, ebike riders can ride slower where appropriate.
I have a s-pedelec going 45 km/h. In the first year I had a lot of bad situations and some crashes. The car drivers license is enough to ride the s-pedelec, but it does not prepare you. Going at 45 km/h means, you have to slow down much more in curves, especially in rainy conditions. I learned that the hard way. Your breaking distance is much longer, again worse on wet surfaces. but most importantly: car and truck drivers underestimate your speed badly and the don't like you being on the road - and they show it to you.
I agree with Dan. I live in Washington, DC. The vast majority of cyclists are youths who completely ignore the rules of traffic: they run every red light and stop sign they can, they never yield right-of-way unless they see danger to themselves. I’d be fine with making e-bikes faster if owning and operating them required a driver’s license, registration, a license plate, and reliable punishment for disobeying traffic laws.
I would love to invite you to NYC to experience the Wild West of e-bikes. Our bike lanes are full of high-speed e-bikes-from the large and unwieldy pedal-assist Citibikes which go up to 18mph/28kph, to faster throttle bikes & mopeds which are illegal but completely unregulated. I realize you are not advocating for throttle bikes but they do give a taste of what higher-speed bikes feel like. ALL these bikes have drastically altered the tempo and mood of our bike lanes to something much more frenetic. Being passed at 18mph by an unskilled rider on a 70lb tank feels VERY different from being passed at 18mph by a roadie on a carbon bike or a messenger on a fixie. I understand the desire to get a little more boost out of your pedal-assist, especially on country roads where you’re only competing for space with cars, but as an exhausted city rider all I can say is be careful what you wish for!
In the USA there are e-powered bikes that go faster than 20mph on just the throttle - they are classed as motor vehicles and should be licensed and insured, and require a motorbike licence to ride, but a lot of people are flying under the radar and not getting the proper training and coverage. This will eventually get clamped down on when the authorities wake up.
Pedal assist or throttle up to 20mph are class 1 or 2, and can go anywhere a regular bike can go.
throttle-controlled bikes are often quite scary, many I've seen are very powerful and kits bought from the internet fitted to a bike without uprated brakes... leading to dodgy situations
You almost had it. Class I e-bikes are restricted to 20 mph with no throttle. Class II are restricted to 20 mph with a throttle. Class III e-bikes are restricted to 28 mph, no throttle. No class of e-bike requires a license or registration. In some jurisdictions, class III e-bikes are only allowed in bike lanes, not on trails. In California, all classes of e-bikes are allowed anywhere acoustic bikes are allowed. License and registration is required for electric mopeds (sometimes called class IV) and electric motorcycles, neither of which is classified as an e-bike. E-bikes are also distinct from 'motorized bicycles', which are bicycles fitted with a gas-powered motor. Bicycles, e-bikes, mopeds, motorcycles (M1/M2) and motorized bicycles are distinct classifications of two-wheeled vehicle.
There is another issue that did not come up. Cars are not used to Bikes going 30 Kmh. I ride that fast on a regular basis in the city of Zürich Switzerland. (not on an E Bike) Cars often try to pass even in a 30 Zone. My speed often creats dangerous situations, but offten because drivers are either rude, agressive or just think, if its a bike, they have to pass me. My solution has been, to ride slower, on an (non E) city bike and just relax. So no, making E Bikes faster, would just put a lot more people at rick. (My oppinion)
Swiss guy here. We have e-bikes going up to 45km/h (they need a license plate and soon you'll have to have to pass sort of a test to ride them at that speed) and have had them for close to a decade now. There was certainly a learning curve for motorists (and people on foot too for that matter) because those e-bikes approach a lot faster than a normal bike. HOWEVER, we got used to them and more people use these for commuting because a lot of people commute between cities and not just within a city. If your commute is 30-40km long then a faster bike will make a huge difference.
Driving schools for cars now sensibilize their students to fast e-bikes and to increase safety you can partake in courses where you learn to handle an e-bike and the higher speeds - additionally, because an increasing number of senior citizens are using e-bikes, albeit the slower, max 25km/h versions, there are also lessons for those older people where they learn the somewhat different handling of an e-bike apart from riding speed (think the difference in acceleration etc) and those courses as wildly popular.
In short: yes, there is an adaptation period but people do learn and faster e-bikes are simply more versatile and do not constrict efficient commuting to city-limits.
Mate, this is not your speed that creates those dangerous situations. It is lack of imagination of the certain group of car drivers that does.
@@krystianbrazulewicz2227 Hence why new motorists are being trained too and have gotten used to e-bikes approaching quickly.
If you go quick on a normal push-bike it's a different story. They perceive you as NOT an e-bike and will assume you're going as slow as any other leasurely bike-rider
I think the "problem" is you being on a regular pushbike and not on an e-bike. Cars are now pretty used to look out for e-bikes, but will still assume that you are slow if you are on a regular bike.
(I live in Bern. There is a noticeable difference in behaviour of motorists towards e-bikes compared towards normal bikes.
I usually make sure to either get out of the way or take up my space early - like pulling to the middle of the lane quit a bit ahead of a roundabout etc (In Switzerland bikes have to stay to the side of the lane and basically ride in the gutter - for anyone wondering why would not be towards the middle from the beginning ;) )
@@krystianbrazulewicz2227 I agree, it not my speed, its lack of i (respct) imagination on the part of the drivers. However, at speeds between 30 and 40 kmh, i put myself in a situation that could be more dangerous, due to poor drivers...
Definitely the 25kph limit is too low - no ordinary bike rider is restricted, why should e-bikes be restricted??45kph would allow e-bikes to avoid the “wall” when power cuts out. Robbie, ireland
Lets get this straight: The team manager tells a mechanic to pretend to be a rider at a sign-on. So the manager gets sanctioned, fine. But the mechanic takes a six month hit to their source of income. No. Wrong. That mechanic is not at fault.
I've said it before and will say it probably many more times; 25 kmh is like a child's speed. Here in the US, as you point out, our lower end is 32 kmh (20 mph) for class I and class II e-bikes in most jurisdictions, and 45 kmh (28 mph) for class III. Here in California, we just passed a bicycle omnibus act last year that went into effect on January 1st of this year that allows up to class III e-bikes on all trails where e-bikes are allowed, unless a local jurisdiction decides to restrict a specific class. In San Francisco, where I live, an e-bike can replace most of my car trips because the city is very dense (2nd densest in NA after the Manhattan burrough of NYC), and due to the hills, which complicate walking trips. In London it might be different because it's mostly flat and kind of spread out.
I've been using e-bikes to run errands, get groceries, pick up 15 bags of potting soil, haul 245 lbs. of plate steel, make hardware runs, and things like that since 2017. What I've found here in the states is that a top speed of 20 mph/32 kph is actually dangerous for me personally, because it is _too slow_. At that speed I get caught between car traffic and don't have enough speed to get around it, so I get caught in little pockets trapped between two cars. At 28 mph/45 kph, I can safely overtake most car traffic, which allows me to clear out of traffic clumps like that.
I've also found that the extra speed makes e-bike use for errands much more practical, because I can ride almost as fast as I would drive the same route. When I go on recreational rides on my XC e-bike, I've found that the extra speed lets me get through the flat sections faster, and since I ride round-trip from my front door, it makes the commute to and from the ride faster as well. On climbs and descents it's a moot point, because you won't be going even 20 mph on an ascent, and it's common to hit 35-50 mph on a descent from gravity alone while mountain biking. It really only becomes a factor on flat ground.
And in those cases, yes, you use common sense. If you're on a shared path with children or dogs, it's a simple matter to slow your cadence and/or turn your assistance down. You Brits and the EU in general really need to untwist your knickers about this. E-bikes are a fantastic solution to sustainable local transportation, but your overly restrictive laws are slowing adoption. In the US, sadly, slow adoption has to do more with our derpy car culture. But in the UK you're holding back a potential windfall of e-bike adoption that might occur if only you would loosen up your regulations. You have everything else--the infrastructure, the culture, the political will, all of which bicycle activists in the US can only dream about--you just need less restrictive regulations to drive higher adoption rates. Speaking personally, all of the accidents and scrapes I've had on e-bikes have occurred while riding less than 10 mph when my front wheel locked up, not at high speeds.
Finally, someone who speaks English 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
As a former bike commuter, I enabled the option to go faster on my Cargo eBike. I'd keep myself strictly at 15 or under 20 on shared trails, but being able to surge and merge into traffic was literally a life saver when I needed to leave the Greenway and turn off onto my employers street. Attempting to legislate technical restrictions won't work, they're to easy to override. It's education, infrastructure, and enforcement that will need to be combined to keep are streets, roads, and trails safe
As a cycling motorcyclist, once the speed imits for e-bikes is equal to a moped then there is no excuse for that vehicle not to be registered, for the rider to be required to pass the CBT and for insurance to be compulsory along with a certified motorcycle helmet.
Great point! Would you welcome licenses for Ebikes? ⚡️
@@gcn I think this is the point though. We have motorcycles, including electric ones. What you are actually talking about is reverse banning e-bikes, dragging them up into the motorcycle category, so they no longer exist. People seem to have turned their brains off. You can't have motorcycles sharing offroad trails with hikers or pedestrian areas in cities, even cycle lanes would become too dangerous for normal cyclists to use. Why can't people just be happy with what they have? It is never enough. The people who set the limit probably did 1000s of hours of research into the dangers, maybe they knew what they were doing?
It's what I have said for the last few years. Also if they are going more than 20mph they do not belong in the bike lane, they need to ride in the regular vehicle lanes. By definition E Bike are motorcycles. Treat them as such!
YES License the bikes and the riders and require insurance. Way too many low skilled people are riding them!
@@gcn
Just a few thoughts. In America you can’t access all trails on a e-bike. Cycle paths and shared use paths can be in issue. This was shown in the Netherlands to be an issue with the closing speed on ordinary cyclists. I think si just needs a pedal electric. I’m for the status quo
In refrence to the cycling infrastructure segment.
"build the bike lanes and the people will cycle"
This is also true for motorists but more car lanes wont improve congestion.
There is more on this topic from "Not just bikes" with their video "More Lanes are (Still) a Bad Thing".
A lot of people have safety concerns, but if the infrastructure is safe then its a no brainer.
The difference between 16MPH and 20MPH is very noticeable in stop/start traffic. Drivers become more impatient following at 16 and more likely to try and get ahead, often with a close pass, whereas at 20 they are more likely to wait behind until the traffic stops again. 20MPH is a good compromise, without heading into moped/insurance/licence territory.
We have shared cycle footpaths. Utterly stupid things but I can’t imagine having an e bike travelling at 20mph would be great for pedestrian safety
I agree as any cyclist pacing at 20mph should have the experience to safely coexist with pedestrians, while e-bike riders used their credit card to buy some Cat2 legs without the handling and knowledge to go with it.
But if they ware faster, they could just safely use the road, keep up with the car traffic and, thus, be safer for everyone.
As an experienced cyclist (and a motorcyclist as well) I fully support the idea to have no speed limits on e-bikes.
But I also underatand that e-biking gathers much wider range of people that might not have even small part of my experience and the control I have. For them it would be pretty easy to get into dangerous high speed situations in the intense city environment.
If there is no significant difference in the number of incidents in the US and in Europe, I guess there is no reason to have different speed limits.
The US speed limit would be than a good compromise to motivate even more people in Europe to leave their motor vehicle and use an e-bike instead.
CBT! like moped and motorbikes, a £100 test lasts for 2 years and but no insurance or reg for Ebikes i think is fair and shows they ahve some skill and commitment.
20 km an hour is 15 1/2 miles an hour roughly for us US folks. If you think about the purpose of an E bike it’s typically for commuting or carrying kids or carrying some cargo load. When you look at your average commute speed to work or to the grocery store are you really averaging more than 15 1/2 miles an hour? You have to remember that these bikes are being used on greenways pathways and in other areas where there are more pedestrians and other bike users not just Vehicles. So a restricted speed of 15 miles an hour could be more safe if there was a bicycle pedestrian or perhaps a bicycle on bicycle related crash versus going 20 to 25 miles an hour in the same situation. My commute from home to downtown is exactly 7 1/2 miles and if I am pushing hard as if I’m in a race my average speed is roughly16 miles an hour. My PR is 17 miles an hour on average between stoplights and other barriers I just don’t think increasing the speed of restricted bikes by 2 to 4 miles an hour is really going to make a difference at the end of the day
Mind you I’m thinking more of e cargo bikes. If you have a gravel bike or some other electric bike that is not meant for Holland cargo ensure the speech should be increased! But where we live in Portland Oregon the most populous bike riding city in the USA we generally don’t allow people on e bikes in group rides.
Absolutely! Yet I see Sur-Ron riders in Los Angeles on TH-cam riding like the wild west ?
20 KPH IS 12.4 MPH.
Italian here, when I was 14 I was allowed to ride a scoter with a maximum speed of 50km/h (70 with a small but ilegal modification) with no licence, there were no problems, it's safer if e-bikes can match car's speed and ride in traffic, the problem is just taking away cars and fumes from the city, also having a bike doesn't imply the person doesn't have a driving licence.
And nowadays you need a licence, a helmet, a license plate and insurance just like any other motorbike...
Do you think that the rules change needs to go hand in hand with multiple other infrastructure changes? 🛣️
California, USA here. I'm with Dan on this one. Now on the street I don't really care what people do because they are really only endangering themselves, but as long as I have to share bike paths with Ebikes i don't want them any faster. I see this a lot in touristy areas with rentals. Some dude flying down a bike path on a massive 29er Ebike barely keeping the thing upright and weaving all over the narrow path. The guy is in his 40ies and hasn't riden a bike in 20 years but he is easily doing 25MPH on this 50 pound bike. I've actually had more close calls with rental ebikes than I have cars! So for me I say ban them from bike paths and allow them to go faster or actually lower the top speed.
Maybe some sort of licensing system could be used to separate tourists from experienced cyclists.
I agree. Absolutely nothing motorized belongs on pedestrian/cycle paths.
I am very lucky to be healthy and physically able to have a lot of fun on my bike. No need for an E-bike for me. However it is nice to know that there is an alternative on wich I can attack up hills when an illness or injury catches me.
The thing is 25kph isn’t that fast on a roadbike is it? But I can also see that people who have their biking renaissance after 30 years of not riding might not be able to handle that speed safely. Or the acceleration in fact.
Maybe the bikes can be restricted to 25kph and after 200km you can up that to 32kph?
that could be a smart way of being able to gradually build up to a quicker speed! nice thinking
Would love to see a behind the scenes of GCN mega base as well and all that goes into making a GCN/GTN/GMBN TH-cam video. I'm sure there are loads of really hard-working people that don't get enough credit for the amazing content that gets put out multiple times a week.
I feel like one problem with e-bikes is the bigger speed difference between cyclists. My 80-year-old (Dutch) grandmother used to ride her regular bike EVERYWHERE. Now she finds herself increasingly taking the bus. Not because of age, but because she doesn't feel comfortable around (or on) the e-bikes going past her everywhere. The mix of regular bikes and e-bikes on the same road seems like a perfect recipe for disaster. It's such a shame, because the everyday physical activity is so important.
The other issue that no one seems to have yet to bring up is that e-bikes are very heavy compared to regular bikes. All that extra mass will contribute to much more serious injuries when the inevitable collusions occur with pedestrians or other cyclists.
Caption: It's always cold racing this time of year, so I shave my legs but still have a fuzzy ass.
The only time I tend to have issues with e bike riders as a cyclist and car driver is when they are throttle powered, class 3 bikes that go 28mph. The type of rider on these bikes most of the time doesn't know how to pass another cyclist safely, they don't tend to pay antennas to cars since they are going faster then them on certain roads. Overall, they tend to ride very unsafe from my experience. And they are usually the ones you hear about on the news being involved in an accident.
I agree, having to pedal makes you more conscious that the speed you are reaching, the energy needed are not "free" and if you want to be there you need to be focused. Throttled fast ebikes are non-sense to me, they are moped in disguise.
These should require a license like a moped
And yet children can get on an e-scooter in my country... no pedalling required. They wear no protective gear and often ride on the wrong side of the road. We don't see anyone restricting their speed (regularly going faster than 50km/h). This hobble-fest is most likely being fuelled by self-interested car drivers. We all know that the moment ebikes can move around at 40km/h they start to be a feasible replacement for the motor car and a heck of a lot cheaper to run. Imagine how many less obese people we would have in our society. The anti-ebike-speed arguments in this forum are being put forward by lazy, fat car drivers.
A class III e-bike, by definition, cannot have a throttle. That is not a class III e-bike, it is a non-road-legal e-bike. This discussion is about road-legal e-bikes.
@@ZratP a "throttled fast ebike" is a moped, not an e-bike.
Firstly, yes, get the definition locked down - once again this is typically non-e-bike owners who are ignorant of the differences. This group also seem to be very vocal in arguing against e-bikes.
1. E-bikes should have no throttle unless medical advice states it is required for ppl with particular issues that permanently or intermittently impede pedalling capability. Medical certificate required.
2. E-bikes shouldn't ever be used on shared walking/cycling tracks. That is common sense.
Here in the Netherlands, with all the cycling paths. The moment you'll increase the speed of ebikes. Including those for who are ridden by kids. You'll get the same problem with not having cycling lanes. The speed difference will be to big.
Yes, on a road bike you could go faster than 25kp/h. But at least it's your own leg power to drive the bike.
So maybe increase, but seem with speed pedalecs. License, insurance and helmet
I think the most important thing is that the cycling environment is as inviting as possible, so that people of all ages feel safe riding their bike. Higher speeds might work well on the country side, but not in the city center.
We're here for this! The rules should reflect a open cycling community - how do you think this lines with current rules?
I'm in Turku in southwestern Finland. Here, closer to the center, the cycle lanes are very narrow or shared with pedestrians, so 25 km/h is quite ok, but there are also many instances where you have to share the road with cars and then 30 km/h would be better. Personally I would prefer the slower pace in a city context, but I kind of see the need for speed for people with long commutes. At the end of the day, it's about respecting the other road users.
Also I think too many teenagers are choosing ATV's instead of bikes.
I already have a license to ride a derestricted e-Bike, but I needed that for my 650cc petrol bike. As much as I love the e-Bike in my life, I am yet to see a cycling proficiency course that supplies the level of training required to ride what is the equivalent of a 50cc moped on the road. My local e-Bike shop have examples of road registered e-Bikes and the owner reports that he suffers horrible abuse from motorists who fail to recognise it as a moped and cyclists who fail to recognise it as an e-Bike. I will also add that I have undertaken advanced motorcycle training with UK police riders and undertaken the Gloucester Fire Service Ride to Arrive course. Just passing your motorbike test still only gives you the basics of road usage, there are greater levels to follow, all of which would be of benefit to an e-Bike rider. Perhaps you should have a chat with your local Police Advanced riders for their view on these things?
Thanks for sharing Jayne! Would you like to see a deep dive into this subject? We would love to get the input of a expert 👌
The problem I feel is not the 25kmh limit, that's plenty. The problem is the 250w motor limit. It means that where is motor is actually useful, on climbs or with an heavy load on the bike, the motor is not helping as much as it could.
Thanks for a great show. You were really on top form. As for e-bikes, I’m not saying I can even average 25 kph over a long ride, but I can easily hit 25 kph and sustain that for a while, so even for a slowpoke like me, the 25 kph speed limit is a real show stopper. To even consider the expense of an e-bike it would need a speed limit higher than I could average for, say, a 4-minute effort. There’s the conundrum, though, I guess. An e-bike giving people of any skill and fitness level speeds they can’t really produce themselves can be seen as dangerous even if that might be the only motivation to get an e-bike in the first place.
Ebike speed limits, being a cargo bike rider, normal bike rider. I'd just bump the speed limit to 17mph. Thats what I do on a normal bike
20 mph would be good however it should be legal only for those over 15 years and helmets a legal requirement.
Interesting! Do you think that would turn people away from cycling? 🚴 - How about better education of road safety for all?
Rightly or wrongly I have desristricted my ebike. It's not particularly powerful, and I'm not zipping around at 60km/h like others, but on the flat it cruises along at about 31-33km/h while pedalling comfortably depending on the level of the battery. When commuting that's roughly the speed I hit on my road bike as a pretty untrained cyclist or if I pedal hard with the battery off - and that's why I justify to myself that it's fine. Most of the other cyclists are going roughly that speed too, and I feel like a roadblock to them going at 25. Other advantages: I don't arrive sweaty to work, my commute is more comfortable and consistent on a relaxed bike, and I can pack significantly more gear if I need to without cycling getting harder. I'm not pro derestriction of ebikes, but I am definitely pro revisiting whether the current limits are sensible. I want a limit that reflects the speed of traffic. 32km/h probably hits the sweet spot for me.
ETA: I'd also be a fan of graduated power limits, rather than speed limits. One of the worst parts of the 25 limit for me was that I naturally was pedalling the bike between 24-26. The sudden drop from having assist at 25.0 to pedalling slightly to hard and having to do all of the work at 25.1 made for a really frustrating cycling experience for me. It was a sudden massive step change in effort. No doubt there is a better way of handling this than the relatively budget system I use, but another reason I decided to derestict my bike.
I’m nearly 75 and no my e bike is not too slow. I cycle on average 10 miles an hour as I have the speed on low. My highest speed I have cycled is 35 miles an hour. But I very seldom go above 20 miles an hour.
in cities it is often not so much about the 'how fast a cyclist can cycle' but rather 'how much red/green lights they need to wait on'. One can go 35km/h for 400m and then wait 40 seconds for the lights to change. City is not a racing track, especially with many cyclists ignoring traffic rules.
That's a great point! Should we be tackling the issue of travel speeds with better infustructer?
@@gcn I think there is many things that come into play here. Good infrastructure can help to achieve greater average speed, especially when we think about wide and separated cycling lanes, BUT on the flip side: more cyclists using the lanes leads to slower travel speeds, especially when we think about mixed crowd with kids cycling to school. Even an extensive bike lines network can not help, when the lines are too narrow to overtake other cyclists as in the case in Berlin. I can imagine that in cities without any bike lanes research could yield high speed as only very experienced and fast bikers would risk filtering through traffic in the streets.
It is a cool research question! one that deserves a proper investigation and measures.
@@gcn And we should not forget about topography. Even London is extremely diverse here with flat north, and hilly south and south-east.
The helmet/ebike ratio study made a faulty bit of math/maths. It was comparing annual sales between years to recognize the growth rate. But that neglects those still on the road which were sold in the intervening few years. That makes the rate differential between ebikes and head injuries less dramatic. Still a problem, just not as much
I helped my father choose an e-bike recently - an eye-opening experience. Advised him to go for a standard 25 km/h-limited pedal-assisted one as I felt that the regulations are there for a good reason. When I personally tried it, I felt like it was a bit too slow on roads with decent traffic, where I personally commute, but still good enough for where he lives.
My personal belief is that changing speed limits won't do much. Better infrastructure is the way to go, as right now people have to either: ride slower and use pedestrian areas/bike lanes, and follow pedestrian rules, or ride faster (yet controlled) and use roads and bike lanes and respect traffic laws. Problems arise when cyclists (or various e-stuff users) change their behaviour back and forth between pedestrian-like and traffic-like, become unpredictable, and obey no rules, which I think is a consequence of poor infrastructure and education. There will always be the illegal stuff, but it should not lead to minors riding adventurously in traffic (saw one in the middle lane of a very fast road the other day!), but rather to speeding in the bike lane, if only such existed.
Another topic was touched upon - helmets. I didn't use to wear one when commuting in town, just on sport rides, and this is a habit I'm trying to instill on commutes as well. At some point I looked back at the past year or two and recollected enough instances of head trauma around me. My way to go about it: keep the blinking rear light on the back of the helmet - forces me to wear it and makes the rear light easily portable between bikes.
The problem isn't that they're too slow or too fast, if the riders are licensed or not. The biggest problem with eBikes is that the most critical component is overlooked by the manufacturers in order to cut costs: the brakes. Most have cable actuated disc brakes that are woefully underpowered. eBikes need to have four piston hydraulic brakes, but if they did, the cost is probably prohibitive.
My wife's 20kg e bike with her on it is a lot lighter than most men on a normal bike, it's the rider plus bike weight that matters and for most the e bike only adds c 10kg.
You guys are SO entertaining! Goes for all the GCN presenters. Always look forward to another vid.
Thanks Paul!
There’s one other challenge with e-bikes, and that’s the handling due to the weight. My 78-year old dad rides an e-bike that weighs 25 kg. He is fit, can handle it and rides often, but there are probably many who can’t. A license would be the best approach, if you ask me.
Absolutely. If you can't lift the motorbike from it being on its side, OR an ebike on its side then you are unsafe.
Thanks for the comment, it's great to hear that your dad is still riding 🙌 Do you think he would have still wanted to ride if he had to apply for a licences?
@@gcn Yes, he would, assuming that cost and effort are adequate and it would be for all and not just for "old people". Personally, I find it weird that there are people taking part in everyday traffic who may have never learned the rules. For instance: In Germany, if you don't get a driving license for a car, the last (and only) time you learned about traffic rules was at age ten. Whether this is the most pressing issue in today's society is another question, though.
And yes, my dad plays golf, goes to the gym, rides a bike, and hikes. He's definitely a role model for aging well.
The Ozkano clip is actually Tratnik outsprinting Politt in Omloop
Average city speed, does that include time at red lights though? In which case moving speed should be the number. 25 kph is a little slow, 30 would be better, that’s an easy pace to achieve as a solo rider. It’s annoying when you hit 25 and lose your power, slow down again and get power back, for the areas your speed is bouncing around the limit.
I’m an eBiker and quite a few thousand miles off-road (gravel mostly) and the biggest problem I have is keeping up with friends on analogue bikes on the flat, typically doing 17-19 mph. So 20mph would get around this issue when struggling with 30kg ebike.
The problem with Si's logic is that if speed were the biggest holdup, more people would ride mopeds instead of driving a car because of fuel savings.
BTW, I used to commute 40 miles round trip and did that for about 10 years so I am pro bike commuting
I ride trails mostly, i’d hate to see >15mph tearing up the trails
especially when you tear down the trails at 30mph. Or do we talk different kind of trail riding?
@@feedbackzaloop it’s mostly flat in Epping forest, with very thick clay soil that don’t drain but gets eaten up & dries like concrete in the summer. You can’t really get to 30mph. Its a much more sensitive environment
That's an interesting point! Did you see EMBN cover a similar subject? 👉 th-cam.com/video/TUSzpRicpdI/w-d-xo.html - You might enjoy the off-road point of view
Enjoying the content; had to chime in as I'm about to surpass 44 000kms on my e-bike. Here in Canada, my bike is governed at 32km/h. Being able to travel at that speed aids in getting ahead of traffic from a stop; keeping pace with most traffic on a bike forces drivers to take notice of you - particularly when you whizz by in the margins, whilst they're grid-locked; access to higher speed and a throttle provides the capacity to escape impending danger/harm.
I've encountered more than a few derestricted or homemade e-bikes in my time riding. I gauged one individual at 80-100km/h, bombing down a shared pedestrian/equestrian/cycling gravel path. A fellow commuter, outpacing me, finally met up at a red light. After a brief conversation, I discover he's derestricted, and easily attains 50km/h, on the same shared network as the Darwin Award winner mentioned prior. Even spotted a man on a bona-fide moped with vanity license plates that read "E-BIKE" - he's fooling himself, whilst endangering others.
It's wild out here.
It does Somewhat feel like the wild west out there. it's great to hear that you have found the higher speed limit safer. Do you think it matters what sort of area you live in? Rural vs city 🌆
@@gcn I suppose that could be a factor, but my commute has me travelling on urban roads, suburban neighbourhoods, rural areas and wilderness parks - I see it all.
I don’t know which line for the show as better, Dan “tight ass” Lloyd Loki g for value or the police investigating his KOM thefts 😂
For the UK - the 250W power limit is unnecessary if the 25kph speed limit exists. 'I have heard that' some hills need 1500W or higher to maintain sensible speeds. But 'somebody I know' managed to wrap their inner tube around their cassette on a pebbly beach the other day so be careful out there! And having the assistance cut off at 25kph is great for a fitness ride, above that speed you can pedal as hard as you like.
@Si - My wife has had daffs in the house for the past month and my son has been complaining about the smell of urine. The rest of us thought he was nuts and he was beginning to doubt himself. He sends enormous gratitude for the validation of his sanity.
As a 72-year old who now occasionally tops a heady 20kph, I am too slow to go riding with my mates. I tried an electric MTB last year and was mightily impressed. Firstly, when you didn't pedal, it didn't produce power. (One setting added 60% power to whatever I produced.) So, climbing the dirt trails in Tollymore Forest was quite definitely a workout but allowed my to ride with a significantly stronger rider. So, great. The big BUT is that if I wanted to ride with my triathlon mates out on the road, an upper limit of 25kph would restrict who I could ride with on the flat.
problem with bikes is..... if there is no bike lane, you can not overtake cars on the right side (NOT UK). so if bikes get faster then cars, they need to overtake cars on the left side, what will confuse a lot of car drivers, and it will put cyclist, in the middle of the motorised tragic. Not saying that overtaking on the right side is save, because car drivers also not expect something over there
Here in Sweden we have tractors, that can ride 30km/h. i would not make cycles faster then that. i think that can be dangerous. okej, i know peddle bikes can also go faster... but..... i don't know how to solve that :D
I live in a city in Southern California where, seemingly, the majority of e-bikes are ridden by kids, often as young as 10-11 year olds. Many of them have zero regard for any safety or legal laws and can usually be seen pulling wheelies or some other dangerous stunts on the side walks and streets. While those behaving recklessly might be the minority, it does say a lot about whether there should be some sort of proficiency test required in order to operate an e-bike. While I wholeheartedly agree with Si's sentiments, he is perhaps forgetting that his POV's are from the perspective of a very experience cyclist and a responsible adult. Therefore, IMHO, raising the speed limit, and making them available for the masses, is a recipe for disaster.
Important to distinguish e-assist from throttle e-bikes. Hard stop, no throttle bikes on bike paths.
Outside of that, I have my e-cargo bakfiets with 5 assist levels, which I’ve programmed with different speed and power levels for the context. I find ~250W is what’s needed to offset the weight and aero drag of the heavy bike (guessing 50kg) compared to me on a road bike. 500W for me to cruise to work without sweating (beauty of e-bike commuting is you can dress for your destination not for the ride). Those are the two levels I’ll use on bike paths, but I have the other 3 for if I have to mix with cars, I can scoot to keep up.
An e-cargo bike is a GAME CHANGER. I built this up as my “zero excuses bike”. No matter the weather, from -10C to 40C, fully enclosed for cargo (child/groceries, etc), and it sure feels good rolling up to daycare or my work downtown and locking up by the front door or even bringing it inside, meanwhile those who drive sit in traffic, park 10 min walk away… and I’m in a Midwest US city not particularly well known for its bike infrastructure
"Hard stop, no throttle bikes on bike paths." but why? Exactly? I could even argue that pedaling hard leaves you with less ability to concentrate on the surroundings as you are sweating and in discomfort.
As a professional driver and a decades long cyclist I agree with Dan's concern with knucklehead e-bike riders. I've witnessed their recklessness in many different situations. I was in Telluride, Co as a middle school let out. I watched the main street fill with numerous e-bike flying down the road, most with 3-5 adolescents hanging on. Then I've seen adults who haven't ridden a bike since childhood, but must think it's a toy. I appreciate the joy I see, but going way to fast with total disregard for others. They all over the and on and off the sidewalks. Speed, hubris and total disregard is not a good mix.
The speed limit for an e bike in the US is def not 20mph. Theres are ebikes that are throttle backed so no need to pedal and hit 28mph and are not regulated at all.
I live in the U.S. the more rowdy E-Bike riders have already figured out how to disable the speed restriction software. I like to raz the E-bikers about them riding nothing more then a electric MOPED. Thanks for the information about having to have a MOPED license to ride a E-Bike. I am going to use that.😁
I can't believe nobody seems to have mentioned that raising e-bikes speed limit to 20mph would be great for roadies since we could sit on their wheel (I'd expect 20mph to be a sweet spot for majority, unless you're a pro), whilst now at 15mph you need to overtake them.
There's a definite need for changes to the laws. My own personal opinion is that we need different classes of e-bikes to suit everyone. Class 1 - meets current standards, 250w continuous same max assisted speed as currently. Class 2 - 20mph max speed either assisted or via throttle, can only be ridden by those aged 16 and over, helmet and lights compulsory and on shared paths can only be ridden up to 10mph but must give pedestrians priority. Class 3 - 25mph maximum speed, can only be ridden on roads and dedicated cycle routes not shared paths, helmets and lights compulsory and can only be ridden by those aged 17 and over. Anything over that and it has to be registered as a moped, with CBT compulsory, insurance, lights, indicators etc. all required just like mopeds and motorbikes and this class too cannot use shared paths nor cycle routes, as they are basically motorbikes or mopeds so should be restricted to road riding only.
For e-scooters I'd have two classes with the maximum speed on roads at 20mph for class 1 scooters, with similar rules for class 2 e bikes when it comes to the other requirements. Higher speed e-scooters would for me have the same rules as mopeds etc.
In addition to these requirements it should be legally mandated that e-bikes and e-scooters should undergo compulsory safety inspections for each type manufactured by a company with a new certification system introduced, as there are too many dodgy, poorly built e-bikes available via the likes of Amazon, Ali Express etc.
I live in the US. I have Giant EX Pro I use for commuting, bike packing, and fun. It is limited to 28mph. I would hate having it limited to 20mph. I'm normally cruising around 22-25 on most commutes.
should have a licence and rego
If i had to pay insurance to ride e-bike i just wouldn't. I own cargo that i use to ride my kids and my top speed is on avarage 15km/h, i just use motor for up hill and other difficulties. And insurance would cost me almost as much as i pay for my cars insurance
Uk law IMO@ 30 Kph, but needs provisional licence and CBt (no insurance just CBT)
Three things:
An e-bike that doesn't need to be pedalled is surely a motorbike? In any event, it mystifies me why no-one ever explains that an e-bike is NOT limited to 25kph. The pedal assist is limited to 25kph but you can cycle as fast as you like over 25kph - you simply won't have any pedal assist.
Dan Lloyd is using basic economics to determine whether a purchase is worth making (an attribute absent in most Gen-zers).
I tried the tongue hanging out trick on my turbo session yesterday. Blow me down, it works ! My HR dropped two beats under significant pressure. Happy days :-)
Just a shot in the dark, but perhaps the issue with e-bikes and crashes/head injury can be related to: New pedal cyclist generally (baring downhill) take time to build up to ride consistently at higher speeds, so have a chance to build bike handling skills and awareness. E-bikes of course, you can just start off with higher consistent speeds and therefore many are lacking the skills necessary to ride safely. The e-bikes are heavier generally and do not brake/stop as fast as the lighter bikes as well. I do not see this as an issue with the equipment, or the speed of the e-bikes, but as usual many humans messing it up by not being prepared for the activity we are trying to do.
In the UK e-bikes can go as fast as the rider wants (and the road’s speed limit allows). They just can’t be e-assisted above 25km/h.
15mph to 20mhp is ideal for traveling with acoustic bike traffic in bike lanes/mixed use paths.
e-Motorcycles can be unlimited if plated, but need to stay on the roads and stay within the regular road limits. The unrestricted bikes need to stay off bike lanes and mixed use paths.
Personal experience. I ride both normal bicycle and an e-bike. Sometimes sudden power output makes the e-bike twitchy and by design most of them are not as controllable as a road bike. So I am extra careful when riding the e-bike.
Hey guys, e-bikes or electric assist bikes in the US are actually allowed to work up to 28 mph! But, as you may know there are different types of e-bikes: those that use a “natural assist” type of power augmentation and those that provide power with throttle control, independent of pedal strength. I think the natural assist which requires the rider to provide the pedal strength to operate are safer than the throttle types. You tend to see people with no experience riding the latter, which I believe leads to most accidents. Bottom line: have the bikes that are designed as pedal assist raised to 28 mph worldwide, but the e-bikes that have power similar to mopeds (throttle assist) limited to 20 mph.
I think that the rules are pretty reasonable at the moment. In the USA, they started with much fewer restrictions, and now they are being completely banned in some places.
Do you know what's crazy? I'm watching this at my folks' place. My dog is here and I started smelling urine so asked my folks if Mika may have peed somewhere in their living room. Turns out I'm sitting next to a vase of daffodils and it's them. This happened about 2 minutes after Si's urine smell story
I think making an E Bikes faster would be fine but lift it to like 30-32km/h.
Well in the US the infrastructure is a lot worse you barley have bike lanes or sidewalks and most of them are painted gutters and the driverslicnese isn´t as strict as in europe so they don´t look for cyclists that much. Another factor is that the cars over there are much bigger so you are more likely in a frontal crash with a car to be draged under the car and get serious injuries instead of being on the hood of the car with less injuries obviously.
In Germany there was a study that found out that the average speed for cars within cities is about 30km/h and some traffic scientists/engineers pointed out that it would be less dangerous for cyclists if they could go that speed on an E-bike (you can sure but not supported) because cars would over take you less and you sort of just flow with the traffic.
As an e bike owner in Australia I think the 30 k.p.h. Is fine ,my only gripe is you should be able to use your (if fitted) throttle controller up to that speed . I’m in my late seventies and find getting off the mark at intersections can be dangerous, remember e bikes are a lot heavier than ordinary cycles, this brings me to my next point, brakes ,all e-bikes need to be fitted with good quality brakes.
I ride an e-bike to work most days and I’m NOT in London. I’m in Cardiff. So with the default speed limits everywhere being lower now I’d like a little extra assistance!! 20 would be nice.
E-bikes can be extremely hard on brakes, depending on how they're ridden. Lots of e-bike riders aren't super tuned into bike maintenance, and I'd bet that's a big source of risk (having serviced several ebikes for friends and family).
I love my e-bike, but if it's going to be allowed on shared paths and in bike lanes, I don't think they should be going much faster than 25kmph. Maaaaybe 30kmph would be fine. Another aspect is that half the e-bikers I see are delivery drivers (I am one myself), and trust me when I say the vast majority of delivery drivers are not cycling at safe speeds when going through areas with pedestrians. They have a financial incentive to go as fast as they can at all times. I know half of them have illegal e-bikes that don't abide by the speed limit anyway, but I'd rather the police do something about that rather than do away with limits completely.
The issue with e-bikes in our Dutch cities is that at 25 kph the go much faster than the average regular cyclist, while using the same bicycle infrastructure. And it can be very busy on our bicycle lanes.
E-bikes are the cause of a steep increase in bicycle and pedestrian accidents. They don't slow down when they should. Worse are the fatbikes which can be stepped up easily (however illegally) and are ridden often completely irresponsibly and cause many accidents.
Now it's our challenge how to adapt the infrastructure to the new situation (haven't even mentioned the enormous numbers of e-cargo bikes), which will be with a speed limit of 25 kph enough of a challenge.
I added a Swytch kit to an old mountain bike last year, and I really enjoy it, though it's not about the speed. I have been using it to get into shape for the coming season. I use it in the lowest power setting and turn it off when not climbing hills. By doing this, I can extend the batteries' range to about 40 km. Great workout.
As a Filipino, I don't think we have any regulations about e-bike (and e-trike) speed, but it doesn't matter anyway since we are, sadly, a car-centric nation.
I come from a place where we bike a lot. The main reason is we can't afford a cars :-) And, difference in speed between two objects is what is dangerous, not the speed in it self. So, if you would like it to be safe to ride at 10 or 15 km/h in dedicated bikelanes, bikes that ride 32 km/h will very often be too fast? ...and btw, if speed is your thing, you could hop on a race bike, no? ;-)
If e-bikes are dedicated to having more tech in them, just put some wireless/bluetooth tether to a "smart helmet" accessory so when the cyclist is wearing the helmet, the speed limit is removed or at least raised compared to when the helmet isn't in range.
I find 25kph too slow when I am shamelessly glued to the back wheel of an upright big guy. 30kph would be perfect for some sneaky drafting when its windy on my coastal commute.
Haha, this is a side benefit I’d not thought about!
I agree that a limit of 30kph would integrate ebikers better with cycle commute traffic in bike lanes and avoid the zoom off cruise slow problem. Would also help ebike riders to be closer to normal traffic flow speeds in suburbia
No helmet isn't a great idea. Even if there's great cycling infrastructure. I have fallen off my bike purely because I got my steepcap boot caught on the frame as I was dismounting. Australian e-bike laws are the same as Europe. E-bikes here were previously less powerful.
I would loose the fitness effect of my E-Bike if it would support me over 25km/h. I am working harder on that thing than on my gravel bike because I aim to generate enought power so the motor shuts up. Cruising speed is about 29km/h on flat streets for the 29kg E-Bike (Riese & Müller Charger 3 Touring). But the US limit would make more sense as roads are normally limited to 30, 50 or 70 km/h in europe. So bikers could swim with the cars at around 32 km/h in cities.
If you have to get a license plate on a e-bike because of the speed. Should a pro cyclist have to get a license plate because they go as fast as a e-bike?
No one ever asked me or Dan… but that probably says more about us than the law.
@simonrichardson5259 Well, that's not me, I'm luck just to hold 17 mph,, lol. But I've been watching every GCN show to learn how to get my speed up and to be consistent.
True some of these roadies are just as dangerous. I saw one run into someone the other day and knock them down. I was going 30km on my X11. And they sped past me at over 40km. And thats dangerous in a built up highstreet.
I like ebikes being slower, so that even though they pass me going up hill. I can pass them on the flat if I'm willing to go into the red on my commute home.
As a analogue and e-cyclist I’m pretty happy with e-bikes as they are if you want to go faster then pedal more. I already pay enough to insure my bikes against theft without having to pay a premium for having an e-bike that goes faster. Even the fact that I have health issues wouldn’t make me consider an e-bike that goes faster.
20:06 That is the mythical saddle in the stone. Whoever pulls the saddle from the stone will be the next king of the GCN.
Should you pull with your butt?