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New Tool: EOIT Assistant Demo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2023
- This is a quick walk through on how to use the EOIT Assistant for Gen4 LS engines.
You should watch this video first to understand EOIT:
• EOIT Tuning for Gen4 L...
Download:
drive.google.c...
Can you give us some pointers on how to make filters for transient and snap throttle conditions.
Thank you for making this tool, it's easy to use and my car is so much better than before. now I have a better understanding of how these tables work together. finally, my btr redhot cam is performing how it should. instantly more torque everywhere by feel.
That was fast! Glad this helped you out!
@@SilverSurfer77Gday mate, what eoit do you suggest for cranking? I’m getting a little bit of pops while cranking, I’ve moved my cranking ve down to .60 but wondering what you suggest. Right now I have eoit 20* bbdc and open 10* after ivc, loving this tool btw!
@@Aidoz_Garage do you mean setting up EOIT for the colder ECT temps? If so, I still have mine stock.
I did set my Cranking VE down to 55...but I am not sure I really noticed any difference once I went lower than 70 or so...I should probably bump that up now that I have my EOIT sorted out. But I was messing with that long ago when hot starts were an issue after the cam was installed.
Try adding/removing 10 degrees to see how that impacts the pops.
@@Aidoz_Garage just noticed...10 degrees after IVC is probably too late for the idle/cranking zone. I would suggest going 10 degree BEFORE IVC (for idle) for warm/hot ECT zones.
Your videos and software are awesome, its hard to believe they're free for us to use!
In your software it seems;
EOIT = (Boundary)
SOIT = (boundary - (normal ect + normal rpm + makeup ect + makeup rpm)
On the forums and in the hpt editor it seems;
EOIT = boundary - (normal ect + normal rpm + makeup ect + makeup rpm)
SOIT = EOIT - (calculated pulsewidth + all IPW offsets)
Do you know which is correct or if I just missed an explanation of it in your videos?
Just an observation and looking for some clarity if you have any.
Thanks for all you do!
I believe there are a lot of misunderstandings when it comes to EOIT. I believe a lot of what I said and claimed in this video are also incorrect. I am doing a lot of studying with an oscilloscope to test. The initial results are shocking to me. I do plan to make another video when I have some more testing done. I did post this today on the forum. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks! forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?111145-Make-Up-Mode-you-wiley-devil-you&p=793842&viewfull=1#post793842
@@SilverSurfer77 Looking forward to your discoveries!
What you're saying in that thread about makeup is more along the lines of what I have came up with.
Makeup is more for low RPM (less than idle, think a stall) when the controller decides it needed more fuel in the first/main pulse. It then can use the makeup to reach desired fuel mass as long as its; A) in the same injection window and B) before the boundary angle has been reached.
Been messing around lately with different start of injection timing around idle and cruise and for my engine it seems to work best with the start of injection just after EVC and before that I tried just before EVC and was getting misfires in the low rpm’s, have you had similar behaviour with your engine? I’m going to also try start of injection just before PPV and see how it likes it
I would be very keen to know more details about your setup and specific conditions around this:
1) Do you have the exact .006" specs (from a cam card, did you degree the cam, are you approximating the valve events, etc)?
2) Did you you turn off Make Up Mode?
3) Is it really misfiring at idle, or just off throttle low RPM cruise/accel?
5) If you can email me your tune, log, and cam specs so I can re-create on my end, that would be great!
6) What RPM range are you seeing this?
As for my experience, the low RPM stuff (1,600 - 2,500) is tricky and where you need to spend a lot of time dialing it in. I would say that if you are having issues here, then you are CLOSE! I am having this issue with an LS3 Corvette I am working on and I have a new theory that I want to test out to try to pin this down.
Here is my theory and test...basically at idle we need to spray before EVC. That works because the air speed is slow thus we won't short circuit the fuel. However, as RPM increases off idle, so does air speed...and this is an awkward transition where I think the fuel is experiencing short circuiting, and reversion causing more uneven fueling.
Test #1: retard injection in this RPM range...
1) Check your Normal RPM table and if it is not zero in this area, zero it out.
2) If that doesn't work, or it is already zero, increase (make numbers larger) the Boundary table at this point to spray at EVC or a little after.
3) Keep increasing the Boundary table until it stops
Test #2: if that doesn't work...advance injection
1) Return the Boundary table to where you had it prior to Test #1
2) Increase (make numbers larger) the Normal RPM table to move SOI sooner by spraying in advance of the EVC
3) This will probably take several tests where you increase the angle a little bit at a time (maybe 2-5º increments).
A final note:
All of these tests really presume that you have done your due diligence on setting the Normal ECT table correctly for idle/EVC. Even if you have the cam card that lists the .006" valve events, you still need to do idle tests with advancing and retarding SOI to find the sweet spot.
@@SilverSurfer77 no sir I do not have the exact .006 events for my cam but using the +50* gets me close. I was seeing 4*+ of knock in the low rpm areas having the STOI to early before EVC and getting misfire code. Moving the STOI back after EVC the knock went right away. Make up mode disabled
@@Aidoz_Garage If you have the .050" valve events, then you are at a good starting point...add 23-27º to those numbers to get a close estimate for the .006" events. So my question is, are you spraying after EVC according to the .050" numbers? If so, that is really spraying late in the injection window IMHO.
In the Corvette example I mentioned previously, I added 5º to the Boundary from 1024 - 2560 to retard SOI and the customer reported the misfires went away.
@@SilverSurfer77 I have been doing more eoit testing and I believe the makeup pulse was causing my previous misfire condition, Zero all that out and problem goes away.
now here is what I have found, Zero out Normal ECT and Normal RPM to give a TRUE end of injection point. now put boundary Angle at exactly IVO in the low rpms and high rpm use intake valve centerline for boundary angle (middle of IVO and IVC)
done this on two cammed cars and the difference was night and day.
@@Aidoz_Garage glad you found good results by disabling M/U mode!
Interesting approach on your strategy. With those cams, what is their overlap? It sounds like you be short circuiting fuel at low RPM's by doing that on a large cam.
Thank you for making this tool and teaching us how to tune SOI/EOI.
In one of your EOIT videos you mention SOIT being different if using e85 vs regular gasoline. Would you have to advance SOIT with e85 since it requires more fuel?
That is a good question. IMHO SOI is only critical during Closed Loop operations and during lower RPM's.
>
1) At idle the difference in pulse width between E0 and E85 is so little it shouldn't make a difference.
2) At low RPM (as in 1,700 - 2,500). As with idle, I would expect the pulse width to be quick enough that the difference between E0 and E85 is not going to be a factor.
3) At mid range rpm (2,500 - 4,000) is where I would guess that you are going to see any drivability or misfire issues occur since this is the awkward transition between stoic and PE where pulse widths get longer and the RPM/degree window starts shrinking drastically. In this area where you might need to experiment with changing SOI.
4) At high RPM and PE is where SOI becomes irrelevant IMHO because most injectors are going to spray and wait (on the back of the intake valve).
5) In all situations, this going to be heavily dependent on the size of your injector and your fuel system.
Okay, that makes sense. I have been experimenting some because I have an 08’ Silverado 5.3, procharged, daily driver that absolutely smells of fuel 100% of the time and the white paint right above my exhaust tips turns black. I always assumed the raw fuel smell and black soot is what you got when the CATs were removed, however now, after watching your videos and using your tool, I know that my untuned injection timing tables are more than likely the cause.
Also, my stock tune had a Boundary table similar to yours. It starts off at 520 then gets smaller with the last Boundary number being something like 320. My Normal ECT table was the same and Normal RPM was all Zero. To me it looks like the Boundary table was used to drive the SOIT because as the boundary table changed, so did SOIT
@@Firestarter467 I have seen the LSA CTS-V have the same factory approach (defined Boundary table, but Normal tables all zero'd). I always wondered why GM did this, I assumed there is something else going on related for boost, so I wouldn't expect this to be done for N/A. Hopefully you are making progress getting this sorted out!
I have a fifth gen but I also have the Texas speed 416 which is an LS3 and a stage 2 cam. Will this work for me?
As long as you have an E40/E38/E67 ECM this will work
@@SilverSurfer77 damn no e92
has anyone verified these ECMs with a picoscope?
I attempted to capture wave forms using a cheap oscilloscope. I was able to get the main pulse, but that was about it. I decided to buy a more expensive PC USB unit and I was still unable to capture what I really wanted...which was the make up pulses. I hope to circle back to this one day. Right now I am in the middle of a head swap that is taking forrrrrrrreveeeeeeeer.
I do have the picoscope. How can I share the wave forms?
PLEASE.........how can I share the beautiful wave forms. I do have a 4 and 8 Chanel pico scopes
It says my truck Norris cam has 3° of overlap. Can that be right? Lol.
Maybe. Depends if those are .050 or .006 numbers. Still...as far as I know, no one has degreed any BTR cam and posted the results.
i have a cruze 1.4 turbo with aftermarket cam upgrade. the place didnt and do not put the cam info out any way i can tune for that
You will have to manually degree the cam to get the answers. Otherwise, you can mess with the numbers, but that is shooting in the dark and will take quite some time to sort out.
@@SilverSurfer77 ok something I can't do at this point, engine is in car it's only one I have.
@@scriptmike I am sure someone has degree'd a cam in the car. It would be challenging to use a standard degree wheel, but if your harmonic damper had timing marks it would be feasible. I suppose you can print your own degree wheel and glue/tape it over the damper and still turn the crank over by hand.
www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheel
Surely someone else in the world has degree'd this same cam though! What cam is it?
@@SilverSurfer77 ZZ performance. For the Cruze gen 1
@@scriptmike strange...they post specs for other cams. Not that one though. I emailed them for the specs...let's see what they say!
Thanks! Your tool doesnt allow me to use decimal places in the cam specs so my cam is out by 1 degree (should be 271/279 duration @ 0.006) but by lack of decimal place it ends up at 272/280 with an extra degree of overlap.
Miniscule difference - but just wanted to flag it for you.
Thanks!
I appreciate the feedback. Normally I am 5 decimal place kinda guy, but in this context .1 degrees is not going to be enough for any change in the wideband reading or you nose detecting raw fuel. So I just didn't feel like it was really needed. You can always use this tool to "rough in" EOIT settings and then start splitting decimal places in HPT if you really want to.
Also, it is important to know that the calculated duration is just for a sanity check (so you can ensure the numbers you entered are correct and there are no typos). The 272/280 is merely for reference and *NOT* used at all for any calculations. The valve events are used for everything.
@@SilverSurfer77 is there a way to use this for a Gen 1 350 camshaft? doing the 24x 411 pcm on the gen1
@@frankmartin5483 the Gen1 EOIT stuff is a different beast. I am sure you could use this to get the basic cam timings...but then you'd have to translate that back into Gen3 ECM values.