Hi mate, I run a full Mafless (2 Bar Speed Density) tune on my 2016 VF. Have had absolutely no issues at all. Happy to send you my tune for comparison if your like
Im new to tuning. I was just calibrating my MAF. After watching this I looked at my log files and Im in High speed in the air Cal mode almost from the start. I guess I should make these changes. Thanks for the help
First off, thank you SO much for all of your time spent making these videos. I'm new to HP Tuners, coming from 00s Japanese OEM ECUs and standalones, and for how popular this system is it doesn't seem well documented on how it actually works. Trying to learn and understand how the MAF/VVE/DynAir all intertwine definitely gave me a little anxiety at first haha. Your videos made it much easier, you're a great teacher! 2nd, at the start you sound like you will be going Speed Density and ditching the MAF due to room constraint, what do you do about the IAT sensor? Is there another separate IAT sensor with identical scaling, or can you wire in pretty much any IAT sensor and rescale for it within HP T? I'm keeping it simple for now but do see a good chance of going full SD eventually myself. Thanks, Frank
I truly appreciate the kind words and I am thrilled you find my videos helpful. I was in your position too when I started out and was expecting to find a lot of free information on the web, but I was saddened both the amount of, and quality of, info out there. So I basically dedicated all my free time to figuring out as much as possible and decided to help out so everyone after me didn't suffer the same plight. Keen observation and great question on the IAT! I did record an underhood video, showing the situation/resolution, but I decided to not include that footage into this video. I never know how much information and details to include...some folks will watch every second, others will get bored and leave right away...so it is a balance. Back to your question, yes the OEM LS3 MAF contains the IAT sensor, and the ECM will lose both inputs if I just remove it. HOWEVER, I use the VCM cold air intake and they have an optional kit for a MAF delete which among other things includes an IAT break out harness extension. You basically unplug the MAF and then plug this in the same spot and there is an aftermarket IAT sensor on the other end of the harness which which fits right into a hole in the intake housing (which was previously capped off by a grommet). Also note that some companies sell an IAT breakout harness for heat soak reduction. It is the same concept, but it is like a Y shaped harness. You keep the MAF in the same spot and now you have an aftermarket IAT sensor with a few feet of wire that allows you to move the sensor into a more advantageous spot. Not sure about other cars, but my MAF is basically on top of and touching the upper radiator hose, so the reported IAT temps are always very pessimistic!
@@SilverSurfer77 Ah, thanks for the info yet again! I did a VERY brief Google and saw the breakout harnesses, but wasn't sure if a particular IAT sensor was required to cooperate with HP T and did not see much talk on that topic. The car I'm working with is a 2014 SS, currently 100% stock and I'm just logging and making small changes to try and learn the system. It seems that on the stock intake the IATs are within 10-17°F of ambient depending on if I'm WOT or cruising (respectively). What's the difference look like with your intake? I have been eyeing the OTR intakes actually, the Harrop in particular just due to price and I definitely believe you about inaccurate sensor readings relative to locations. A certain 00s Japanese car initially came with the sensor located in the cast aluminum intake manifold, and no matter the scenario, it would read around 130°F IAT. That same model had a mid-generation refresh, and one of the changes the OEM made was relocating the IAT sensor into the plastic intake further upstream, and people have reported it reads much closer to ambient, and is more responsive to change. Seems a bit coincidental eh?
@@FCustureri When I first got the car I was dismayed by the high IAT temps. This was before I ever knew about HPTuners, but I did know the ECM would retard timing due to high IAT's so I was on a mission! I tried many things, but none of them really worked. I was adding reflective and thermal barrier insulation and break out harness's but in the end all I found was the attempts to block heat, would only slow the heating process, and then once the components were heat soaked that same insulation acted as insulation to keep it hot. It was a frustrating experience and I just gave up and stopped paying attention to it. So now with HPT, the solution is to desensitize the [ECM] 12621 - IAT Spark Advance Correction table to be less aggressive when pulling spark due to IAT!
I started this thread, I assume this is the one you are referring to...lot's of great info in there! forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?106946-Failed-MAF-Intermittent-Stumble
@SilverSurfer77 kinda.. someone linked to it from fb in the group called hptuners troubleshooting and tips.... Wish it could have helped me but I run more than 15psi.
Air calc mode=normal does not mean VE only and high speed does not mean MAF only, unless in PE. Log dynamic air and compare it to maf air/ve air. You'll see, ss77 knows this. If the maf fails and it creates a major drivability issue, that means you need to fire your tuner because they did not tune vve.
i was the opposite to ur tuning start, we didnt have VVE back then and VE was the go so i was use to it as it is and then they brought in the VVE that was all backwards and calculating coef 😀 also in the 2 bar OS if u go into the fan settings too if u use a lower thermostat u can now set the fan below the previous min temp also to suit 160 deg stat
So if i have a boosted setup running the 2 Bar OS, with maf and Ve enabled up to say 4000 rpms, I still use your dyn air calc for the VE table, and not just STFT?
Yes the dynamic air formulas work on the 2 bar os just fine. Same limitations of 512 g/s on the MAF and 655 g/s on the VVE...not really (4000) rpm related.
Thanks for watching! I use an all inclusive set of filters to remove all transient conditions, I have a link to the filters in my google drive (this video description has the link): th-cam.com/video/xRZaTblSQ_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qRgF7DZN4nHWKhRn
Nice!THK! Hello, I am your subscriber and I watch a lot of useful and interesting videos, thank you for your work! I have a silverado 2500 hd. 6.0 m112 supercharger. Not long ago, problems with knock appeared. Could you watch my tune?
My truck has been absolutely doing this and I've been trying to figure out what was happening. Thank you for this video and saving my truck
Thanks for videos ive been tuning my 2650 charged ls3. these in depth videos Help me understand whats actually happening.
Awesome! I am glad I can help!
Hi mate, I run a full Mafless (2 Bar Speed Density) tune on my 2016 VF. Have had absolutely no issues at all. Happy to send you my tune for comparison if your like
Yep I had no issues either with the 2 bar. I am currently experimenting with the basic Normal Trns "patch" now.
Im new to tuning. I was just calibrating my MAF. After watching this I looked at my log files and Im in High speed in the air Cal mode almost from the start. I guess I should make these changes. Thanks for the help
Good luck on your journey! Tuning is a whole 'nother world! Pain and joy lol
First off, thank you SO much for all of your time spent making these videos. I'm new to HP Tuners, coming from 00s Japanese OEM ECUs and standalones, and for how popular this system is it doesn't seem well documented on how it actually works. Trying to learn and understand how the MAF/VVE/DynAir all intertwine definitely gave me a little anxiety at first haha. Your videos made it much easier, you're a great teacher!
2nd, at the start you sound like you will be going Speed Density and ditching the MAF due to room constraint, what do you do about the IAT sensor? Is there another separate IAT sensor with identical scaling, or can you wire in pretty much any IAT sensor and rescale for it within HP T? I'm keeping it simple for now but do see a good chance of going full SD eventually myself.
Thanks,
Frank
I truly appreciate the kind words and I am thrilled you find my videos helpful. I was in your position too when I started out and was expecting to find a lot of free information on the web, but I was saddened both the amount of, and quality of, info out there. So I basically dedicated all my free time to figuring out as much as possible and decided to help out so everyone after me didn't suffer the same plight.
Keen observation and great question on the IAT! I did record an underhood video, showing the situation/resolution, but I decided to not include that footage into this video. I never know how much information and details to include...some folks will watch every second, others will get bored and leave right away...so it is a balance.
Back to your question, yes the OEM LS3 MAF contains the IAT sensor, and the ECM will lose both inputs if I just remove it. HOWEVER, I use the VCM cold air intake and they have an optional kit for a MAF delete which among other things includes an IAT break out harness extension. You basically unplug the MAF and then plug this in the same spot and there is an aftermarket IAT sensor on the other end of the harness which which fits right into a hole in the intake housing (which was previously capped off by a grommet).
Also note that some companies sell an IAT breakout harness for heat soak reduction. It is the same concept, but it is like a Y shaped harness. You keep the MAF in the same spot and now you have an aftermarket IAT sensor with a few feet of wire that allows you to move the sensor into a more advantageous spot. Not sure about other cars, but my MAF is basically on top of and touching the upper radiator hose, so the reported IAT temps are always very pessimistic!
@@SilverSurfer77 Ah, thanks for the info yet again! I did a VERY brief Google and saw the breakout harnesses, but wasn't sure if a particular IAT sensor was required to cooperate with HP T and did not see much talk on that topic.
The car I'm working with is a 2014 SS, currently 100% stock and I'm just logging and making small changes to try and learn the system. It seems that on the stock intake the IATs are within 10-17°F of ambient depending on if I'm WOT or cruising (respectively).
What's the difference look like with your intake? I have been eyeing the OTR intakes actually, the Harrop in particular just due to price and I definitely believe you about inaccurate sensor readings relative to locations. A certain 00s Japanese car initially came with the sensor located in the cast aluminum intake manifold, and no matter the scenario, it would read around 130°F IAT. That same model had a mid-generation refresh, and one of the changes the OEM made was relocating the IAT sensor into the plastic intake further upstream, and people have reported it reads much closer to ambient, and is more responsive to change. Seems a bit coincidental eh?
@@FCustureri When I first got the car I was dismayed by the high IAT temps. This was before I ever knew about HPTuners, but I did know the ECM would retard timing due to high IAT's so I was on a mission! I tried many things, but none of them really worked. I was adding reflective and thermal barrier insulation and break out harness's but in the end all I found was the attempts to block heat, would only slow the heating process, and then once the components were heat soaked that same insulation acted as insulation to keep it hot. It was a frustrating experience and I just gave up and stopped paying attention to it.
So now with HPT, the solution is to desensitize the [ECM] 12621 - IAT Spark Advance Correction table to be less aggressive when pulling spark due to IAT!
This has plagued my 5th gen camaro for years.. its nice to get some resolution on it.. there was tall of this today on the fb hp tuners page..
I started this thread, I assume this is the one you are referring to...lot's of great info in there!
forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?106946-Failed-MAF-Intermittent-Stumble
@SilverSurfer77 kinda.. someone linked to it from fb in the group called hptuners troubleshooting and tips....
Wish it could have helped me but I run more than 15psi.
There is an option in HPtuners to Flip axis on the VE tables
I didn't know! I appreciate the insight!
Right click on the VE table View Inverted and it will stay like that in my experience.
@@SilverSurfer77
@@SilverSurfer77 It was added recently, might still be in the beta software.
@@GoatRopeGarage ah the plot thickens! "Invert Axis" does not exist in 4.10.7, but DOES exist in 5.0.4. Thanks for that added clarity!
Air calc mode=normal does not mean VE only and high speed does not mean MAF only, unless in PE. Log dynamic air and compare it to maf air/ve air. You'll see, ss77 knows this. If the maf fails and it creates a major drivability issue, that means you need to fire your tuner because they did not tune vve.
i was the opposite to ur tuning start, we didnt have VVE back then and VE was the go so i was use to it as it is and then they brought in the VVE that was all backwards and calculating coef 😀 also in the 2 bar OS if u go into the fan settings too if u use a lower thermostat u can now set the fan below the previous min temp also to suit 160 deg stat
I was born into the (coefficient) struggle, it is the only way I know! LOL
So if i have a boosted setup running the 2 Bar OS, with maf and Ve enabled up to say 4000 rpms, I still use your dyn air calc for the VE table, and not just STFT?
Yes the dynamic air formulas work on the 2 bar os just fine. Same limitations of 512 g/s on the MAF and 655 g/s on the VVE...not really (4000) rpm related.
Right, but if/when exceeding these limits, switch to STFT data? Or wideband when at WOT of course. @@SilverSurfer77
@@pierrelun correct
Great video, how do you filter shifting data when doing ve log on E67 ecm, thanks.
Thanks for watching! I use an all inclusive set of filters to remove all transient conditions, I have a link to the filters in my google drive (this video description has the link):
th-cam.com/video/xRZaTblSQ_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qRgF7DZN4nHWKhRn
@@SilverSurfer77 thanks keep up the good work 👍🏽
Nice!THK! Hello, I am your subscriber and I watch a lot of useful and interesting videos, thank you for your work! I have a silverado 2500 hd. 6.0 m112 supercharger. Not long ago, problems with knock appeared. Could you watch my tune?