Your camshaft events look fairly similar to my camshaft so just for testing, I grabbed your boundary settings (and the others), switched off make up and my trims went from like 3-4% to 9-10% (rich) at idle and light cruise. Massive difference! The car is a turbo car so moving EOIT up top didn't make a huge difference but it did richen up slightly on the wideband. Overall, you're onto something here! Thanks for the vids and it'll be good to give your tool a go when it''s ready. Cheers!
Thanks for the info. I've been wanting to get into tuning for years now. I know carbs, but electronics are all the rage now. Between you, Goat Rope Garage, and HP Academy, it is time to embark on the adventure. First subject, 2019 2500HD gas burner. Cam, then tune!
Finally got idle to work today. All original settings except for: Spark, idle airflow min, spark over under, idle rpm, of course maf table and vve and VT table. Today, it was 114 in Conroe. Idled for 15 minutes in the heat. Now, to work the vve.
I think I'm stuck degreeing my truck norris cam. BTR is all secret squirrel about it and I can't seem to find anyone that has done it already. It actually surprises me someone hasn't gone to that length already.
@SilverSurfer77 now I can't wait to get the slugerado back from the shop. Grenaded the rear diff again, spider gears exploded, and no I wasn't doing burnouts. All was covered under warranty, I just have irish luck.
Spec are out there but I can't remember where. Someone with cam doctor checked it, and besides the omitted numbers. Some of the other numbers are fuged a degree or so. I don't see the point of this practice now with ramp profiles being so important and numbers don't give that up.
I haven't seen great EOIT tools since the LS came out. There were a few Excel spreadsheets passed around the HPT forum in the 2000s but it was confusing. Hopefully, I can apply this info to my Gen3 without too much problem, given your tool is for Gen4.
Crazy. I got the btr truck Norris cam for gen 4 5.3. they finally contacted me and said they don't give those specs out. Engine is already in truck running. Guess it's gonna be a guessing game.
I feel your pain! I would suggest nagging their tech support. Hopefully the collective voices will change their mind. One person sent me these specs. I know there are a few versions of the cam and I do not know which one this is for or if the numbers are accurate... These are the .050 numbers...so watch this vid and use the spreadsheet calc in the video description to start your .006 journey. If you get good results please let me know and I will try to add it to the SilverSurfer database! th-cam.com/video/IKoYfe1jB6E/w-d-xo.html 212/224 at .050" .553/.553lift 107.5 LSA 106 ICL 109 ECL IVO (BTDC) @0.050" lift 0 IVC (ABDC) @0.050" lift 32 EVO (BBDC) @0.050" lift 41 EVC (ATDC) @0.050" lift 3 Advance 1.5 Overlap 3
In regard to a boundary table typically beinf flat, I'm about to start working on a HFv6, with VCT, on an E67. Boundary angle is 500 at 0rpm, tapers to 300 at 8192. VCT will do a number on this I believe
I would expect that as RPM rises, the intake cam would retard, pushing the intake valve closing angle later. As such, one would think the boundary table rise along with that! My guess is by staying flat or reducing the boundary table, gasoline atomizes better on the IVO. Leading to better emissions and power...it would be nice to test on an actual dyno though.
The man the myth the legend, KYLE CRAWFORD!!! Thanks for the support. The first time I heard you say "ABT"...I was like, "hey that's a really idea"...and I never stopped! Thanks for all your videos over the years, you have helped me out tremendously!
Hello, I was under the impression that the ECM use the value of the 4096 cell (last value) in the Normal RPM table to be substracted at all the others higher RPM boundary
@@SilverSurfer77 So that mean in one of your example where you have around 6000 rpm 580 in the boundary, 180 in the normal rpm 4096 cell, 85 in the ect, you finish to inject at 315° on a closed intake valve
great explanation as always, interestingly enough my 2012 holden l77 flex fuel stock calibration has injector off time zero'd out. would you suggest adding it?
Wow man that is crazy! I would not expect that. Only thing I can think of is that it is part of the flex fuel strategy since E85 would require a longer pulse width...but that is a pure stretch/guess. Not sure of your other mods, but I think it is worth experimenting with for sure. I would start with setting it to 1ms, then 2ms, then 3ms. And I would also set the Make Up Mode to NONE (with the 0ms offtime) to see if that has an impact on fuel trims as well. See if you can find any correlation. And most importantly please report back and let me know what you discover.
just did some quick testing and started off at 2ms off time and then changed to 3ms off time, the 2ms felt better at part throttle, still testing though @@SilverSurfer77
loving the channel so far! Couple questions though, where are you finding stock 2014 5.3 ls cam specs for the .006? and i just installed a TSP dumpster fire cam, 224/228 114lsa and all of the btdc, abdc, etc are all at .050, but it also shows me that duration @ .006 is 276/280 would it be best to call TSP for the .006 btdc, abdc, etc info?
I have not found any cam specs for the 5.3...that's one of those deep dive internet quests you will have to go on. I was lucky enough to find the specs for the normal LS motors though (have to trust the internet info is correct though). I was actually planning on doing a quick video on what to do without the full .006 valve events. I will try to create that today or tomorrow. But yes, definitely contact your cam manufacturer for those and hopefully they do not give you the cold shoulder. Otherwise you have to make an educated guess (what my next vid will show) or you will have to degree the cam yourself.
@@SilverSurfer77 was not expecting a response that fast haha thank you for your info, im a complete noob to tuning but i rather learn than pay someone else to do a botched job on my tahoe just waiting on my wide band to show up so i can start logging info
I was getting confused when you were saying boundary-ect-rpm=soit. Soit would be calculated backwards from eoit using your rpm and pulsewidth. I think you are on the right track with this software, not all injectors are created equal and an soit during the end of the previous cycle is not ideal mathematically. With injector duty over 70%(rough guess) i do not believe you could fit the entire spray into the current cycle without going past ivc. Correct me if i am wrong on that.
If you zero out ECT and RPM tables, then indeed SOIT would be back calculated based on Boundary - IPW. HOWEVER. To get the get the best homogeneous mixture it is much better to spray as early as possible. Essentially, the longer the fuel is allowed to swirl and tumble with the air, the better. Obviously you can spray too early, hence the need to define a specific SOIT. And if you spray too late you can run into drivability issues. The only time SOIT = Boundary - IPW is when the IPW exceeds the user defined SOIT. I cover this beginning at 49:28 in the presentation: th-cam.com/video/Td6oC9CIUas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rZGx-PyMUBCkopL7&t=2968
This is the unfortunate part about dealing with BTR and many other cam companies these days. They are keeping secrets which only hurt the average consumer. I would urge you to reach our to BTR Support for the specs. They may share a few of key points of info to help.
@@williamhoskins4180 that is a really late SOI. I would expect you to be around 385-395 when you are all said and done. I would also encourage you to set Make Up mode to NONE and zero out the Make Up ECT and RPM tables. So something like this... 487 - 100 - 0 - 0 - 0 = 387 Then mess around with the 100 to change SOI sooner or later to see what the motor wants (see if 95 or 105 is better/worse and keep changing it a little at a time).
I will be happy to assist you. However, my time is at a premium these days. You can send me $25 via paypal (look in the Help > Buy me a coffee menu for my email). Then email me your tune and log file and I will make a personal/private youtube video showing me opening it from scratch and working through getting it all set up and then going over the first revisions of maf and vve. I will save the file and send you the new tune file. From there you can continue to revise it, or flash and log again, and then we can continue to work on any questions/issues that you may have until you feel comfortable with it. Obviously a big part of this is going to ensure you have the proper channels logged in your scanner. Off the top of my head this is: Dynamic Air MAF (Hz) MAF (g/s) VVE (g/s) Fuel Trims (B1 STFT, B1 LTFT, B2 STFT, B2 STFT, wideband) RPMs MAP (Kpa)
Have you run tri-y's before? As with everything the correct combination is key. But just based on the production and availability of 4-1 vs 4-2-1...it would seem the world agrees with you!
@@SilverSurfer77 oh most productions are equal length, I'm talking about changing the header lengths to even out the exhaust pulses. The most common example I believe is to have 24" headers, have 1 be nominal, take 3" from 3 and 5 and then add 3" to 7. Or are we talking about the same thing?
@@joshdeeney8456 I believe we are talking about different things. Though I am interested in what you are talking about! I am guessing individual runner tuning would need to be done by a custom shop with a dyno that works for your cam and RPM range though. I have not seen this advertised by the normal header companies (ARH, Kooks, SW, etc)...maybe do this and just don't advertise though.
Great video. I’ll definitely revisit it after dropping in a bigger cam and injectors, thanks.
Your camshaft events look fairly similar to my camshaft so just for testing, I grabbed your boundary settings (and the others), switched off make up and my trims went from like 3-4% to 9-10% (rich) at idle and light cruise. Massive difference! The car is a turbo car so moving EOIT up top didn't make a huge difference but it did richen up slightly on the wideband. Overall, you're onto something here! Thanks for the vids and it'll be good to give your tool a go when it''s ready. Cheers!
Wow that is an incredible difference! Thanks for sharing your feedback!
Very thorough, thanks for taking the time.
MAN YOUR THE BEST.
Finally 🎉. I was worry about you bro to much time since last video. By the way I was not able to find your account (PayPal).
LOL thank you for the support! paypal is dankunkel@gmail.com I appreciate you sir!!!
Thanks for the info. I've been wanting to get into tuning for years now. I know carbs, but electronics are all the rage now. Between you, Goat Rope Garage, and HP Academy, it is time to embark on the adventure.
First subject, 2019 2500HD gas burner. Cam, then tune!
Carbs were my home base too...but once I started learning...EFI is amazing! Good luck on your adventure!
Thank you so much for this
You are welcome!
Thank you so much for the info!
You are welcome! I hope this helps you out!
Finally got idle to work today. All original settings except for:
Spark, idle airflow min, spark over under, idle rpm, of course maf table and vve and VT table. Today, it was 114 in Conroe. Idled for 15 minutes in the heat. Now, to work the vve.
I think I'm stuck degreeing my truck norris cam. BTR is all secret squirrel about it and I can't seem to find anyone that has done it already. It actually surprises me someone hasn't gone to that length already.
Interesting. I'd think that info would be out there somewhere too.
@SilverSurfer77 I finally found it in a random forum far far away. They knew a guy who heard from a birdie that was told from a squirrel
@SilverSurfer77 now I can't wait to get the slugerado back from the shop. Grenaded the rear diff again, spider gears exploded, and no I wasn't doing burnouts. All was covered under warranty, I just have irish luck.
Hey brother would you mind sharing those specs with me?
Spec are out there but I can't remember where. Someone with cam doctor checked it, and besides the omitted numbers. Some of the other numbers are fuged a degree or so. I don't see the point of this practice now with ramp profiles being so important and numbers don't give that up.
I haven't seen great EOIT tools since the LS came out. There were a few Excel spreadsheets passed around the HPT forum in the 2000s but it was confusing. Hopefully, I can apply this info to my Gen3 without too much problem, given your tool is for Gen4.
Gen 3 a lot of the data is wrong and the calculations are wrong.
Crazy. I got the btr truck Norris cam for gen 4 5.3. they finally contacted me and said they don't give those specs out. Engine is already in truck running. Guess it's gonna be a guessing game.
I feel your pain! I would suggest nagging their tech support. Hopefully the collective voices will change their mind. One person sent me these specs. I know there are a few versions of the cam and I do not know which one this is for or if the numbers are accurate...
These are the .050 numbers...so watch this vid and use the spreadsheet calc in the video description to start your .006 journey. If you get good results please let me know and I will try to add it to the SilverSurfer database!
th-cam.com/video/IKoYfe1jB6E/w-d-xo.html
212/224 at .050" .553/.553lift 107.5 LSA 106 ICL 109 ECL
IVO (BTDC) @0.050" lift 0
IVC (ABDC) @0.050" lift 32
EVO (BBDC) @0.050" lift 41
EVC (ATDC) @0.050" lift 3
Advance 1.5
Overlap 3
Yeah I watched this video a couple times and haven't seen this spreadsheet calc. Is it the new tool thing your talking about? Thanks for your time
Nevermind I misunderstood you. I hit the link. All good. Thank you
In regard to a boundary table typically beinf flat, I'm about to start working on a HFv6, with VCT, on an E67. Boundary angle is 500 at 0rpm, tapers to 300 at 8192.
VCT will do a number on this I believe
I would expect that as RPM rises, the intake cam would retard, pushing the intake valve closing angle later. As such, one would think the boundary table rise along with that! My guess is by staying flat or reducing the boundary table, gasoline atomizes better on the IVO. Leading to better emissions and power...it would be nice to test on an actual dyno though.
Didn't have time to watch the whole thing but the first 15 were great! ABT!
The man the myth the legend, KYLE CRAWFORD!!! Thanks for the support. The first time I heard you say "ABT"...I was like, "hey that's a really idea"...and I never stopped! Thanks for all your videos over the years, you have helped me out tremendously!
Hello, I was under the impression that the ECM use the value of the 4096 cell (last value) in the Normal RPM table to be substracted at all the others higher RPM boundary
Yes (and same for the Make Up RPM table too). Did I misspeak in the video somewhere?
@@SilverSurfer77 So that mean in one of your example where you have around 6000 rpm 580 in the boundary, 180 in the normal rpm 4096 cell, 85 in the ect, you finish to inject at 315° on a closed intake valve
@@sebast19x do you remember what time in the video i was talking about this?
This is killer info!! Drop the assistant link and let me get to work!
I hope to record the release video and drop the tool today. My day job is getting in the way. 😞Sit tight!
What if your EVC is only 3 degrees ATDC? Do you add instead of subtract? (QuickStart method)
You would have to know what the original cam EVC was. If the new cam EVC is a larger number (as in more ATDC) you would add to the Normal table(s).
great explanation as always, interestingly enough my 2012 holden l77 flex fuel stock calibration has injector off time zero'd out. would you suggest adding it?
Wow man that is crazy! I would not expect that. Only thing I can think of is that it is part of the flex fuel strategy since E85 would require a longer pulse width...but that is a pure stretch/guess.
Not sure of your other mods, but I think it is worth experimenting with for sure. I would start with setting it to 1ms, then 2ms, then 3ms. And I would also set the Make Up Mode to NONE (with the 0ms offtime) to see if that has an impact on fuel trims as well. See if you can find any correlation. And most importantly please report back and let me know what you discover.
just did some quick testing and started off at 2ms off time and then changed to 3ms off time, the 2ms felt better at part throttle, still testing though
@@SilverSurfer77
@Aidoz_Garage sweet! Any change in fuel trims?
both tunes were similar fuel trims but was average 10% lean coming from 0 off time
@@SilverSurfer77
loving the channel so far! Couple questions though, where are you finding stock 2014 5.3 ls cam specs for the .006? and i just installed a TSP dumpster fire cam, 224/228 114lsa and all of the btdc, abdc, etc are all at .050, but it also shows me that duration @ .006 is 276/280 would it be best to call TSP for the .006 btdc, abdc, etc info?
I have not found any cam specs for the 5.3...that's one of those deep dive internet quests you will have to go on. I was lucky enough to find the specs for the normal LS motors though (have to trust the internet info is correct though). I was actually planning on doing a quick video on what to do without the full .006 valve events. I will try to create that today or tomorrow. But yes, definitely contact your cam manufacturer for those and hopefully they do not give you the cold shoulder. Otherwise you have to make an educated guess (what my next vid will show) or you will have to degree the cam yourself.
@@SilverSurfer77 was not expecting a response that fast haha thank you for your info, im a complete noob to tuning but i rather learn than pay someone else to do a botched job on my tahoe just waiting on my wide band to show up so i can start logging info
Texas speed dumpster fire cam @.006
IVO 28
IVC 68
EVO 78
EVC 22
276/280 overlap 50
Just in case someone is looking
Ppv for a 5.3 is 75
@@bruceburge661hey glad you got the numbers! Happy tuning!
Thing i see as strange is the gmt800 and 04 zr1 have the same eoit numbers stock.
I was getting confused when you were saying boundary-ect-rpm=soit. Soit would be calculated backwards from eoit using your rpm and pulsewidth. I think you are on the right track with this software, not all injectors are created equal and an soit during the end of the previous cycle is not ideal mathematically. With injector duty over 70%(rough guess) i do not believe you could fit the entire spray into the current cycle without going past ivc. Correct me if i am wrong on that.
If you zero out ECT and RPM tables, then indeed SOIT would be back calculated based on Boundary - IPW. HOWEVER. To get the get the best homogeneous mixture it is much better to spray as early as possible. Essentially, the longer the fuel is allowed to swirl and tumble with the air, the better. Obviously you can spray too early, hence the need to define a specific SOIT. And if you spray too late you can run into drivability issues.
The only time SOIT = Boundary - IPW is when the IPW exceeds the user defined SOIT. I cover this beginning at 49:28 in the presentation:
th-cam.com/video/Td6oC9CIUas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rZGx-PyMUBCkopL7&t=2968
I have a GEN four with a truck Norris NSR the cam sheet does not make sense to me on degrees. It only tells you in inches of a lift. Any help please
This is the unfortunate part about dealing with BTR and many other cam companies these days. They are keeping secrets which only hurt the average consumer. I would urge you to reach our to BTR Support for the specs. They may share a few of key points of info to help.
I did get it this morning and I’m watching your video again I appreciate it
Mine is 487-110-0-30-0=347 does that sound right
@@williamhoskins4180 that is a really late SOI. I would expect you to be around 385-395 when you are all said and done. I would also encourage you to set Make Up mode to NONE and zero out the Make Up ECT and RPM tables. So something like this...
487 - 100 - 0 - 0 - 0 = 387
Then mess around with the 100 to change SOI sooner or later to see what the motor wants (see if 95 or 105 is better/worse and keep changing it a little at a time).
How can I adjust SOIT
@silversurfer77 is it possible for me to send you a log and you tell me where i screwed up setting up your VVE PE and MAF PE tables?
I will be happy to assist you. However, my time is at a premium these days. You can send me $25 via paypal (look in the Help > Buy me a coffee menu for my email). Then email me your tune and log file and I will make a personal/private youtube video showing me opening it from scratch and working through getting it all set up and then going over the first revisions of maf and vve. I will save the file and send you the new tune file. From there you can continue to revise it, or flash and log again, and then we can continue to work on any questions/issues that you may have until you feel comfortable with it.
Obviously a big part of this is going to ensure you have the proper channels logged in your scanner. Off the top of my head this is:
Dynamic Air
MAF (Hz)
MAF (g/s)
VVE (g/s)
Fuel Trims (B1 STFT, B1 LTFT, B2 STFT, B2 STFT, wideband)
RPMs
MAP (Kpa)
I got the Paypal. Please send the log and tune files. Thank you!
Just emailed them to you sir.
How can we get in contact?
Dankunkel@gmail.com
Tri Y are bleh, tuned length headers uberalis.
Have you run tri-y's before? As with everything the correct combination is key. But just based on the production and availability of 4-1 vs 4-2-1...it would seem the world agrees with you!
@@SilverSurfer77 oh most productions are equal length, I'm talking about changing the header lengths to even out the exhaust pulses. The most common example I believe is to have 24" headers, have 1 be nominal, take 3" from 3 and 5 and then add 3" to 7. Or are we talking about the same thing?
@@joshdeeney8456 I believe we are talking about different things. Though I am interested in what you are talking about! I am guessing individual runner tuning would need to be done by a custom shop with a dyno that works for your cam and RPM range though. I have not seen this advertised by the normal header companies (ARH, Kooks, SW, etc)...maybe do this and just don't advertise though.